Discouragement, Pretending, and Church Discipline

Philip DeCourcy 1:04

It's nice to be on a podcast today because , tip , like I'm on the radio , I have a voice for radio but not a face for television . But I look in the mirror metaphorically and I see , you know , did I just do that ? Did I just say that ? Why is my prayer life not more robust ? Why is my walk with God not more authentic ? Why doesn't obedience come easily ? Because there's a the Puritans talk about , there's a spy in the castle , I've got sin in my heart , and so all of those are constantly working against us . And so what I would say and you know , you guys are about to chip in just I think discouragement is a reality we can't run from . I think there's general discouragement , which I've just talked about . The real issue is fighting particular discouragement , letting it get seeping into your soul . Where you you get really done , really depressed , you get . You know there's no window out from the moment you're in , and so the trick for me are that the issue . I think we always go , we're always going to be discouraged . The challenge is to be more encouraged than discouraged .

Emeal Zwayne 2:14

Try this on first eyes . Gentlemen , there is something I don't know that I am supposed to know . I don't know what it is . I don't know and yet I'm supposed to know , and I feel I look stupid if I seem both not to know it and not know what it is . I don't know , therefore I pretend to know it . This is nerve wracking . Since I don't know what , I must pretend to know . Therefore , I pretend to know everything . I feel you know what I'm supposed to know , but you can't tell me what it is because you don't know that I don't know what it is . I'm just going to go on and forth you may know what I don't know , but not that I don't know it and I can't tell you . So you will have to tell me everything .

Ray Comfort 2:58

I don't know what you're talking about right now I do . That's ridiculous . You're describing your brain .

Mark Spence 3:02

No , you're talking about the woman's mind right , or I mean we're supposed to read the woman's mind at all times .

Emeal Zwayne 3:06

Oh that reminds me of that book Ray Everything man Learned About Woman .

Ray Comfort 3:08

It was empty , it was nothing in it . The blind page , total blank page . It wasn't even one page , it was totally blank .

Emeal Zwayne 3:13

Total blank the whole thing . Yeah , yeah , we interrupt this program to let you know that Easy Forgot to Give Attribution for this little poem . It's by R D Lang and the other one he's about to quote . He has no idea who's it is , he just knows it's not his . Now back to our regularly scheduled programming . Here's another one . I like this . Yes , another one . Aren't you excited , right ?

Mark Spence 3:34

No , we could have skipped it . He who ?

Emeal Zwayne 3:36

thinks he knows but doesn't know is a fool . Shun him . He who knows but doesn't know that he knows is asleep . Wake him . He who doesn't know and knows that he doesn't know is asleep . Oh wait , I put that in the screen , I don't know . Anyway , who knows and knows that he knows is a wise man . Follow him . And yes , friends , that very unfamiliar , maybe strange voice is familiar to us . We have a special guest with us my pastor , mark Spence's pastor , philip DeCorsi . No , no , no , hey , hey , hey . The Irishman , the Irishman , the Irishman , pastor , thanks for coming in for this special session of X-Communicating , mark , okay .

Oscar Navarro 4:15

That actually leads me to my first question for you . First , do you guys practice church discipline ? And then the follow-up question is that how often do you have to practice it with EZ and Mark ?

Philip DeCourcy 4:25

We do practice it , but thankfully we haven't had to do it with him .

Oscar Navarro 4:27

Yeah , but you know they're not out of the woods yet . Yeah , yeah , I've got some notes for you , but it's a joy to be here .

Philip DeCourcy 4:35

I've had it in my calendar for a while . Love you guys , appreciate what you're doing , and so to sit around the table , it's just a joy .

Ray Comfort 4:42

Yeah .

Philip DeCourcy 4:43

Although the back of my mind I feel like maybe it's Daniel and the lion's den but we'll say so , which one are you ?

Ray Comfort 4:49

Yeah , exactly I hope to be .

Philip DeCourcy 4:50

Daniel yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 4:52

Pastor , it really is a blessing to have you and I was thinking this morning just about this change that ended up .

Discouragement and Ministry Blessings

Emeal Zwayne 4:59

What's that Comfort ? It's a change to hear you thinking . I know it's a new thing , I'm trying , but just how our paths connected , it went back to prison ministry .

Philip DeCourcy 5:12

That's true . No , I got saved at London and Beach .

Emeal Zwayne 5:18

Yeah , but I remember you were on the Frank Pastore show and our well , one of the congregants and our mutual friend , eric Sorensen , heard you and he said , oh man , you got to check out . You know this guy's at the church . I remember I went online and I saw your installation and I saw you being installed by Dr John MacArthur and obviously I've admired him for years . I thought , wow , this is cool . Then Thomas Pertell was looking for a new church . I recommended it . He went , loved it , gave you one of my sermons passing the torch on raising a godly generation . You invited me to speak and then we prayed about it and became home .

Mark Spence 5:58

Yeah , the rest is history and Thomas told me about Kindred . So I went to Kindred because of Thomas .

Emeal Zwayne 6:03

Yeah , so it's been 14 years now . Wow , about the same for you guys .

Mark Spence 6:07

Mark , yeah , you were there a little longer than me .

Oscar Navarro 6:09

Yeah For the listeners . Who is Thomas Pertell ?

Mark Spence 6:12

He's one of the elders Kindred .

Oscar Navarro 6:14

Yeah , dear friend of the ministry .

Philip DeCourcy 6:17

Chick-fil-A operator disciple of Jesus , great father , good man . We could go on about Thomas Chicken lover . Yeah , you know . Yeah , the benefit is that through you guys , I get to meet Ray in person and in the flesh which is itself a blessing .

Emeal Zwayne 6:33

Yeah , you don't want to see Ray in the flesh , but , pastor , you have been such a tremendous blessing to us . Obviously , mark and I have seen our gamut of churches through the years , traveling throughout the country in different parts of the world , but one of the things I've said about Kindred time and again is the fact that there is pervasive excellence in the church , from leadership to the pulpit ministry , to the training ministry that we do through various forms missions , evangelism . I mean , it's such a blessing . Today , one of the things that we're going to highlight the main topic we're talking about is discouragement . I'm sure you've had your share of discouragement over the years through pastoring , not just at Kindred , other churches and then just ministry in general , the things you've gone through over the years in terms of personal trials and then even maybe back in the days when you were in Ireland and what you experienced there . So we're excited to have you , we're excited to get in all of that . How long have you been in the US , by the way ? I'm trying to remember when you got here 94 .

Ray Comfort 7:49

It's a lot of years you were a policeman .

Philip DeCourcy 7:52

No I came in 94 .

Ray Comfort 7:54

You were a policeman on Ireland , is that ?

Philip DeCourcy 7:56

correct , I was Not full-time Ray . I was part-time but Ray was real . I grew up during the troubles there , when the country was in conflict and I felt I needed to do my part . I was an engineer most of the time , but because of the terrorism and the trouble bit like Israel right now , we had large reserve forces , so I was a reserve policeman .

Ray Comfort 8:17

This would be before these guys . Do you know about the islands , the kind of revolution in Ireland ?

Mark Spence 8:22

So we weren't all about it . Yeah , yeah , we were just about it .

Ray Comfort 8:26

Oh , that's funny yeah .

Philip DeCourcy 8:28

Well , if I get into the depths of that , I appreciated those years because I think I lived my faith . I wrote a book called Take Cover about my time in the police . So because you said the title again , because Take Cover , take Cover okay , and one of the things I learned as a police officer was that security's not the absence of danger , it's the presence of God , because as an officer there , we were more likely to be killed off duty and out of uniform . And so though you were living in constant not constant fear as a believer , because we lived in constant trust in God . But the reality of your departure was always there and I learned to cope with that . Deal with that by reminding myself I lived between the hedges of God's providence , job 1 . God has written all our days down in the book . The IRA won't determine the day I die at the sovereignty of God . Well , and so that brought a peace and I learned to be brave and courageous and I hope that I passed that on to others . But I learned that and Ken Arute about that in the book that security's not the absence of danger . You can't go anywhere in this world and escape danger , that's true , it's always there . But security's the presence of God . He's always with us . We trust him at all times and he's our shield and he's our defender and I think we , you know that's a message I needed and it's a message others needed . I would say this I've been to the Irish Baptist College , I've been to the master's seminary , but I'm thankful for the life on life training I got just as an engineer and more especially as a police officer . I think my years in law enforcement , you know , helped prepare me to deal with people in their challenges , to understand the fallenness of man , to long for ultimate justice and to act briefly , yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 10:18

Wow , that's great pastor . All right , well , we're going to jump into the topic in a moment , but first one of your comments . This is from Bill H Gates official .

Oscar Navarro 10:28

Oh boy , how I wish it was a real .

Emeal Zwayne 10:30

Bill Gates Can't get enough . This podcast has been such an amazing blessing in my life . I am so grateful for the godly wisdom you guys bring to the table . You all have inspired me and a couple of buddies to start our own podcast aimed at building up others and ourselves and faith . Blessings , guys

Discouragement in a Fallen World

Emeal Zwayne 10:47

, here it comes . Ps easy has a beautiful singing voice .

Mark Spence 10:50

Blah , blah , blah Did you notice how he hasn't .

Emeal Zwayne 10:52

Man of wisdom , Bill Gates .

Oscar Navarro 10:54

Did he really say that ? Thanks to having an amazing voice .

Ray Comfort 10:56

He did .

Emeal Zwayne 10:57

Yes , of course .

Ray Comfort 10:58

Why would you doubt that Ray ? Because he seemed like a sane guy .

Oscar Navarro 11:02

Notice how he hasn't read the other ones that we found for him . You know we don't read those , Did you have that ? There's a couple of them .

Emeal Zwayne 11:08

We don't read those . Okay , friends , this podcast is brought to you by why Jesus Book Book by Ray Comfort . This book will help you recognize Jesus as the only path to everlasting life , identify lies that distort humanity's views of God and use the Bible to highlight our need of the Savior . Ray , did you write that book ?

Ray Comfort 11:27

It's just a new book . Yeah , it's just came out .

Emeal Zwayne 11:29

Yeah , glorious cover , by the way .

Ray Comfort 11:31

Yeah , beautiful cover .

Emeal Zwayne 11:32

Yeah , I like it . You don't know what it looks like to you . Have you read it ? I didn't know my face on it .

Ray Comfort 11:38

It's a beautiful cover .

Emeal Zwayne 11:39

Yeah , anyway , friends , check it out , and don't forget the Living Waters mug , the evidence , study Bible , all at Living Waters man , oscar , oh , I am .

Oscar Navarro 11:48

I am Oscar Luke Warman . It's been a week , it's been a few weeks . What's wrong with you , man ? You are out of it today . That was like the narrow silence .

Emeal Zwayne 11:55

Yeah , all right , friends . As I said , today we're talking about discouragement , discouragement . I'm glad we have a new voice here , because I get discouraged by these three all the time . Pastor , this is probably one of the most crippling elements , I'd say , for Christians . You know , we're always having to push ourselves to encourage ourselves or to encourage others , because discouragement comes naturally in a fallen , broken world . So I'd love for you to maybe just kick it off by giving us sort of an overview of the element of discouragement , and then we could cut it up and just you know .

Ray Comfort 12:32

Do you say elephant or discouragement ? Elephant , yeah .

Philip DeCourcy 12:36

Yeah , not some reality , right ? I remember when I was at the RSPAP , the Scottish doctor River Oakley told us that our job was twofold to go out and disturb the comfortable and comfort the disturbed . And he said on another occasion preach the broken hearts and you'll never lack a congregation . That little phrase has always stood with me because on any given morning I'm standing amidst and above a group of people who are facing all kinds of challenges . Discouragement's real right . Look at the Bible and look at the characters of the Bible . You've got , you know , the people of Israel under Nehemiah discouraged in chapter four . They've got Elijah about to give up and depressed and discouraged After such a great win on the Mount Carmel . You've got Jesus' frustration somewhat with his disciples , right . You know how slow of heart to believe . You've got Paul talking about his distress and discouragement . Look out throughout church history . Spurgeon talks about the fainting fits of the minister . You know Aaron Armjudson almost gives up after the death of his wife and the loss of his child and he says God , to me is the great unknown . We can multiply that , it's just the reality . And I think you know we fight discouragement on three fronts . This is , you know , old theology , simple but it's right , the world will discourage us . You hinted at this . We live in a fallen world , subjective futility , we live under the shadow of death , and there's all of that discourages us . There's so much around us in a fallen world that breaks the heart , troubles the mind , and just living in this world , you know , it's the waters we swim in , so discouragement comes from that . We've got an adversary right , the devil , who's an accuser of the brethren . He's called our adversary in 1 Peter 5 , verse 8 . So he's always working against us . When something or someone's always working against you , that's discouraging . When you're always in a headwind , you're always rolling against the current . And then there's the flesh .

Understanding and Overcoming Discouragement

Philip DeCourcy 14:37

And maybe , you know , nobody discourages me more than myself . You know I look in the mirror , metaphorically speaking . Well , I could look in the mirror physically and that'd be a discouragement enough . But , you know , it's nice to be on a podcast today because typically I'm on the radio , I have a voice for radio but not a face for television . But I look in the mirror metaphorically , and I see , you know , did I just do that ? Did I just say that ? Why is my prayer life not more robust ? Why is my walk with God Not more authentic ? Why doesn't obedience come easily ? Because there's a the Puritans talk about , there's a spy in the castle , I've got sin in my heart , and so all of those are constantly working against us . And so what I would say and you know , you guys are about to chip in just I think discouragement is a reality we can't run from . I think there's general discouragement , which I've just talked about . The real issue is fighting particular and discouragement , letting it get seeping into your soul . Where you get really down , really depressed , you get . You know there's no window out from the moment you're in , and so the trick for me are that the issue . I think we always go , we're always going to be discouraged . The challenge is to be more encouraged than discouraged . George Verver remember Ray I mean , some of the Americans don't know him as well , but George Verver ran Operation Mobilization , a great man of God , and I remember him saying one day I've never had a discouraging day and then I go hold on a minute , brother , what world do ?

Emeal Zwayne 16:14

you live in .

Philip DeCourcy 16:16

But then he went on . It was a little catch . He says I've never had a discouraging day . I've had a discouraging morning , I've had a discouraging afternoon . But the chat , what he's saying , is but some point I got to fight that . At some point I got to overcome that . So you know discouragement . I think I'll be discouraged about the world , about the battle I'm in and about my flesh to the day I die . But we've got to draw from the means of grace and always be more encouraged than discouraged .

Emeal Zwayne 16:46

Yeah , you know , ray , you and I have talked about this numerous times , you and I . You and I , you and I how you know we will be riding high , encouraged the Lord did something . Maybe we preached somewhere , or someone wrote into the ministry , said how they've been touched and then like hours later or we might wake up the next morning and we feel totally down . Is that just the vicissitudes of life ?

Ray Comfort 17:10

Yeah , I've always said I've talked with Sue about the vicissitudes of life . Wow , what a doctor I can't even say it you know there's a silver line with discouragement . I was just thinking the other day if only I could walk of humility of heart , then I'd have something to be proud of , and I thought how ridiculous because , I've got this continual conceit going on in my heart the devil , the world the flesh . It's just crazy . We've got nothing to be proud of . And so my prideful thoughts keep me humble . They make me bow my head before God . So when I'm weak then I become strong . It's the same with discouragement . I'm continually discouraged . You know you're up and then you're down and you've got these fearful thoughts as fears , coming from different directions . But what that does is it keeps me at the foot of the cross , it keeps me trusting in Jesus and the whole thought of discouragement . Break up the word con with discarriage , dis , get rid of your courage . That's what the enemy wants to do . And the Bible says in Isaiah 42 , I think , verse four , speaking of Jesus he shall not fail nor be discouraged . And the reason ? And even in the Garden of Gethsemane he didn't lose his courage . He got his courage . But he didn't lose his courage because he knew he could not fail . He shall not fail nor be discouraged . So we look at 1 Corinthians 15 , verse 58 , which says therefore , my beloved president , be steadfast , unmovable , always abounding in the work of the Lord , for your labor is not in vain and the Lord begins with , therefore . So we go back to the previous verses , and the previous verses speak of the victory that we have over death . That's why we should never be discouraged . So think of ourselves as a firefighter . If a firefighter arrives at a fire and it's just a horrific mess people screaming from the building what does he say ? Man , this is so discouraging .

Oscar Navarro 18:57

I'm going home , that's right .

Ray Comfort 18:59

No , he doesn't listen to his fears , doesn't listen to his thoughts of his . He's a firefighter , so he pushes them aside . And that's what we have to do as Christians . We get all this discouragement . We say no , no , we're here to seek and say that which is lost . We're going to glorify God , and there's nothing that's going to take me from that , because I cannot fail , because God's for me . Nothing can be against me . That's good .

Mark Spence 19:18

You know , several years ago , Pastor Philip , you had visited my son in a hospital . I actually just kind of bumped into you . You were visiting somebody else and I told you about my son who had been admitted . He had C diff , and you shared a couple of scriptures that I've never forgotten . Wow remind me you spoke encouragement into his life and it was Mark 438 . Don't you care that we're perishing ? And you painted the picture where we have these seasoned fishermen . Here's Jesus going over to Decapolis , the 10 cities , crossing the Sea of Galilee , and they're discouraged and all of the bills , all the waves they're coming down over . And then finally Peter wakes up , jesus , and he says don't you care that we are perishing . So we went from the beginning part of Jesus's ministry where Peter pipes up and he says don't you care ? All the way to 1 Peter , chapter 5 or 7 , where it says cast all your cares on him , for he cares for you . And you pointed out the picture where here's Peter walking with Jesus over some time , starting off with don't you care ? To what do you got ? Cast that , cast that care on Jesus because he cares . And I looked up that word cast and it literally means to throw upon , to remove from yourself , and it's like ever walked into a spider web , like in the night , where it's like dark , it's like you're able to do aerobics and lose , like 150 calories within three seconds Like you're , just like you're going crazy . Well that's kind of the , that's the idea , that's the picture within the Vulgate . You grab ahold of what you have and you're throwing it over upon Jesus , and here he is . You can cast anything , whatever you've got and it's spoken encouragement into my son's light and into mine as well .

Philip DeCourcy 20:57

That's good , that's good . I would just piggyback off something I think is very important Don't discount the physical when it comes to discouragement , because you're just saying maybe you and Ray or Mark or Oscar , you've had a great conference a day away , you preach your heart out , you've delivered the sermon on the soul , and we often forget it's in the backwash of exhaustion . The discouragement and depression comes . If you look at Elijah , you know he's after a win After a win , he's done in the dumps . And what does God do ? He feeds him and he puts him to sleep . I talked about it . He gives him two nights of bread and breakfast free of charge . And we mustn't discount the body , and as much as possible and some of us have the burden of continual ill health but we should do all we can to keep as fit as we can and physically , you know , as strong as we can . We mustn't be nostic in our view of the body . Our body and our souls live in close quarter and they catch each other's diseases and the . You know , the spirit is willing but the body of the flesh is weak . And you know , famously , robert Murray McSheen , who was a great Scottish pastor . My wife is from Scotland and he died at 29 . And he's famous for this statement God give me a message on a horse and I killed the horse . Wow , he seems to be admitting he didn't care of his body . So just you know , we tend to over spiritualize discouragement and depression . And good night's sleep , a good meal , the company of friends . I don't know what it is , but don't discount the physical part of discouragement .

Emeal Zwayne 22:30

Man pastor , that's so huge . I'm glad you mentioned that , in fact . Well , you were just running Rygood recently yourself . You're never talking about this , yeah it's true , and a lot of times people like you're saying ignore that . And oftentimes , when I'm counseling people and they're going through especially depression , I ask them look , do you exercise ? What are your eating habits like ? What are your sleeping habits like ? Are you journaling ? Are you filling your soul with good music ? That's turning your gaze toward eternity . Those things have a massive impact . And even a conversation with someone who understands you , you know when I'm discouraged and I just talk to a brother who knows me , knows my life , knows my background and knows God's word , that just breeds life back into me . So that's a huge element .

Oscar Navarro 23:13

I think a big step , which is kind of what you guys are getting at here , is that any negative emotion , especially discouragement , we need to first use that as a diagnostic tool for our lives , because so often in our modern day , anytime you're discouraged , anytime you're down , our immediate resolution is to get busy . Right Is to ignore the pain and the suffering and busy yourself up with social media , busy yourself up with a busy calendar or mask . Mask it right , mask it with busyness essentially . And what it does is that builds up all of this tension of discouragement that , if left unchecked , will ultimately take control of our lives . Paul Tripp , a friend of mine , said it like this left unchecked , discouragement will become your eyes and ears , determining what you see and hear and how you see and hear it . Unchecked , it will become the master of your emotions and the ruler of your choices and actions . Unchecked discouragement will rob you of your hope and motivation . It will steal your reason for doing good . It will rob you of your ability to trust . It will make you closed , self-protective and easily overwhelmed . Discouragement will sap you of your strength and courage . It will cause you to see negative where nothing is negative and miss the positive that is right in front of you . If given room , discouragement will tell you lies that have the power to destroy your life , and so to use these negative emotions , discouragement as a diagnostic tool

Overcoming Discouragement With God's Truth

Oscar Navarro 24:40

. And one of my favorite things to ask guys who are discouraged , or even myself in a moment , is this what lie am I believing ?

Mark Spence 24:49

What lie am ?

Oscar Navarro 24:50

I believing about myself ? What lie am I believing about God ? What lie am I believing about the world around me ? And then to take that lie , once you've analyzed that through prayer , through meditation , through talking with friends , to take that lie and to replace it with the truth of God's word . So I just wrote down a few examples . When you are discouraged because you're like man , I am worthless . James 1 , 18 , you are God's prized possession . You're a mess up man . You are forgiven First . John 1 , 9 , you're never going to change . When you're dealing with sin , he who began a good work in you is faithful to carry it out . Philippians 1 , 6 , your life is pointless when you believe that lie . Psalm 139 , you were made for the day and the day was made for you . See , so often we need to preach the gospel to ourselves in those moments of discouragement .

Mark Spence 25:47

Mark , as he said , if you do not meditate on God's word , you're going to believe . Lies are True . So we need to be found meditating continually , speaking truth over us over and , over and over again .

Emeal Zwayne 25:59

Amen , combining the lies with truth , yeah , yeah .

Philip DeCourcy 26:01

And you know it's important to focus on what voice we're listening to . I mean , I did a study just recently on Nehemiah 4 , which is a chapter on discouragement . In chapter 4 , verses 8 to 10 , they talked about , you know , the strength of the laborers was feeling they were not able . There was so much , you know , rubbish and rubble still to be moved . And I think it was an old pastor in Scotland , george B Duncan , who pastored a church at Ultimey , sinclair , ferguson pastor , that he said there's three voices in chapter 4 . He says there's the voice of Sambalit and Tobiah and Gashem who say we're going to come and destroy your work . So the voice there is you can't . So the enemy will say you can't or no . So the enemy will say you won't , we're not going to let it happen , you're not going to build that church , you're not going to raise that godly family , you're not going to be an effective servant for Jesus Christ . And sometimes we listen to that voice . And then the other voice was the voice of the people in their own discouragement , to your point that you know they were listening to themselves , which is a mistake , you know . That's the Lloyd-Jones Psalm 42 quote listening to yourself . talk to yourself when you get up in the morning , your mind and your heart's already talking , it's already carrying on the conversation of the night before and you need to interrupt those internal conversations with the word of God and allow the spirit of God , the whisper of peace , and then you know , and then the third voice is the voice of God . You know , near my says to him , and near my 414 , remember God , awesome and mighty , he will fight for you . And so I loved that outland . He came across it years ago and I've gone back to it on discouraging days . Hey , you know , the world wants to say to me you won't . Sometimes I convince myself I can't and they need to remind myself God will . When I was in right talked about my time in the RUC . I remember in one of our early trainings we had the watch of video of officers . It was an American video about actually police officers in America who had been shot and by all medical measure they shouldn't have died . It wasn't a life-threatening shot or wound but they just assumed I've been shot , I'm going to die . And they listened to that internal voice and they said many officers died unnecessarily and the training video was to train us . If you get shot , you've got to be tough mentally . You've got to fight that voice inside . I'm dying and remind yourself , hey , I'm going to stay alive . You watch those movies , stay with me . And so ultimately , that's all in the hands of God . But we need to fight internally those voices of surrender and death . So the world is full of voices and we need to make sure that God's voice is loudest of all .

Emeal Zwayne 28:57

That's good . Yeah , and Ray , I'd love to hear your thoughts on this . And then , pastor , I want to read something that JI Packer said about the Puritans and get your feedback on it . But , ray , we're talking about having , in a sense , a battle plan to combat discouragement . Randy Smith said this . He said if you serve in gospel ministry , there will be loads of opposition . Even Jesus Christ faced it . And since staying disengaged is not an option , it's wise to ready yourself right now to be prepared for the pitfalls toward discouragement and armed with reasons to persevere with a resolute heart and then to piggyback on that . Nancy Leydemoss said one of the most valuable aids to meditation is scripture memorization . In fact , when I encounter someone who is battling discouragement or depression , I often ask two questions Are you singing to the Lord and are you memorizing scripture ? These two exercises are not some magical formula to make all our problems go away , but they do have incredible power to change our perspective and attitude toward the issues we are facing . That's something that has been a standout sort of characteristic of yours and that's determining to praise God . You talk about leaping for joy , literally at times , and also hiding God's word in your heart . How care those things .

Ray Comfort 30:06

It's an attitude of mine . Speaking of that , I just read a quote by Charles Birchon .

Mark Spence 30:10

There's hardship in everything except eating pancakes . Go ahead , Ray . No , just stolen .

Ray Comfort 30:14

Yeah , charles Birchon said there's hardship in everything except eating pancakes . So how cool was that that a guy with such status spiritually could say something as carnal as that . But it's so true . Yeah , I used to encourage myself when I was preaching the Gospel down in Christchurch , did it most days for about 12 years and it was tremendously discouraging in the sense that I had a group of guys that would show up every day . They'd be waiting for me there . They were on the doll .

Emeal Zwayne 30:39

There you go , yeah , get it and that's around .

Ray Comfort 30:42

And the highlight of their life was to discourage me when I was preaching and they'd go up the top of the cathedral , lean over when I was preaching the Gospel of everlasting life and just call out together in unison boring .

Oscar Navarro 30:55

It was the Lord's way of preparing you for this podcast , and they do it every day continually boring , and it's the message of everlasting life .

Ray Comfort 31:03

So I'd say to myself I have the privilege of preaching the everlasting Gospel in the last days and the uttermost part of the earth , in the city that bears the name of the Lord .

Emeal Zwayne 31:14

Christchurch .

Ray Comfort 31:15

And it really was the uttermost part of the earth . If you put a needle from Jerusalem right through the earth it'd be really annoying . But you come out of the city of Christ . It's just out by the ocean , so it used to really encourage me . So you got to speak to yourself a lot and realize I go twice a day to the local college on my bike with my dog wearing sunglasses and cheer the Gospel and every time I get on the bike just as I'm about to leave , I feel these discouragements .

Emeal Zwayne 31:43

And . I just I'm not going to take any notice of that , that's good yeah , and Mark also , giving thanks is a huge remedy to discouragement it is .

Mark Spence 31:51

Scripture says to give thanks and all things , for this is the will of God . In Christ Jesus , I'm determined to thank God for things he's never heard . Thank you for Right . I was at , I spoke at a church in this past Sunday .

Philip DeCourcy 32:06

And as I was sitting there Right top of the list .

Mark Spence 32:11

As I was sitting there inside the church , I remember just thanking God for the chair that I was sitting in . I'm thinking , you know , I bet nobody's ever thanked God for that chair that I just sat in before I got up here . And I want to give thanks to the Lord in everything , in good times , in bad times , in everything . Vance Havner said sometimes God puts you on your back so that you look up , look up , right , and that is the idea that we are perpetually designed within our DNA to always look up . You know Christina Pertell . I had said something to her about trials and I said you know , the hardest trial you'll ever go through is the one you're going through right now , until tomorrow hits . And she said ah , correction , now this is spoken from a woman who's going through cancer . She said you know , the hardest trial you'll ever go through is the one you're going through Without the Lord . No , because when your eyes are on the Lord , you can mock the tumultuous storm that is around you . It just doesn't matter . Yeah , it just doesn't matter when your eyes are on , lord , because this is not our home and we're homesick for a home We've never been to . I looked at my age today , in days I'm 18,873 days I've been counting the days . Scripture says to number our days and our youth . That means in light of your death . Are you making sure that your days ? Yeah , amen there is no wasted days . There's no time to waste . That's good . We cannot waste time .

Philip DeCourcy 33:28

Yeah good , Can I ? There's another thing too Just keep persevering .

Emeal Zwayne 33:32

I mean .

Philip DeCourcy 33:32

I want to publicly salute you guys . I mean you and Ray's life shows this . Just , you just turn up , ray has turned up , you guys have turned up again . Everybody thinks probably for you guys it's easy , but I know you use of gotta fight the darts , the discouragement , the public mockery , and I think perseverance is Is a theme in the Bible that you know , theology , the perseverance of the saints . But you know Galatians 6 , 9 to 10 , you know , don't be weary and well-doing , keep doing it for in due season . Yeah , one of we are . I wonder how many times we've stopped short of God's blessing . Similarly , because we didn't persevere endurance . Hebrews 12 . I mean one of our elders , mark of on , said recently at our elders man I thought was really good , some people have a heart for ministry , they don't have a stomach , hmm .

Oscar Navarro 34:20

It's really good right .

Philip DeCourcy 34:21

I like that and and we need a stomach , we need guts , we need we just need to put the head down . Like William Kerry , I can plot , and so that's not this kind just plotting to the mother that's tired , just plot To the street evangelist . Just plot to the pastor feels this may be as long as last sermon , just plot , I think . You know , sometimes there's nothing else to do than keep on doing what you're doing until God brings you to a , you know , a season of renewal or a season of blessing . So that's not this kind , just persevere .

Oscar Navarro 34:52

So here's the thing . This is the difference between when the scriptures tells us to persevere Versus that you know , pick yourself up by your bootstraps , do it yourself kind of perseverance which is just a self-help motivation , and that's certainly not what we're saying . What we are saying is Look , persevere , because you can see how God has loved you . You can . It's exactly right . You . You take account of your status before the Lord . I love J A Packers quote where he says to be forgiven by a righteous judge is great news , but to be loved by a father in heaven who has adopted you is the greatest news , and that is at the heart of the gospel . That's what he says and I think that that's you know . I know I've shared the story before , but truly this is what causes me to persevere is to to notice the love of my father , and I've shared before Philip , I don't know if you've heard , but I grew up . I grew up without a biological father . I was . I was told he left before my first birthday . I had abusive stepdads . You know I'd won . For seven years it was physically abusive , another one for seven years it was sexually abusive . I was kicked out of my house by the time I was 13 . So just , I had no father figures . And then by the time I was 30 , my wife is like , hey , let's try to find your biological father . And I , the only two stories that I knew about my biological father was that he was a drunkard that's what my grandma told me and that he liked to get into bar fights . So in my mind at 30 , I'm like I don't need to go reach out to this guy . It doesn't really sound like he has much to offer . You know , and thinking back , I just had bad fatherly experiences . I can specifically remember one of my stepdads at the wedding of my mom's wedding . With him , like he's walking around and I can hear people ask like , oh , who's that kid over there pointing to me , and I remember him saying oh , that's Becky's son , you know . So even a call them stepdads wasn't really like they didn't never wanted to be my father , you know , man just didn't have a dad . So anyways , fast forward and 30 something years old , I start to try to find my biological father . And actually I'm on the phone with easy when I get a phone call and I'm like I think this is him . So I hang up the phone with him and I answer . And it's him and and the story shifted Massively . Essentially he did not leave us . My mom , sort of she , was in . She was an addict . She kind of pushed him out of our lives and he was looking for me for a really long time , just couldn't find me . So I meet this man , I go over to his house . They've got pictures of me on the wall . They would remember he showed me a calendar . They would celebrate my birthday every year , count up my age . During Christmas they would Remember me . The neighbors knew me by name , my . I have two little brothers . Their friends knew me . They were like this little family . That was like waiting for their older brother to come home . And during COVID , my older , my younger , my brother , who's 10 years younger than me , was getting married . He asked me to officiate the wedding . So we're at the wedding and we're turning the corner . In every corner I turned , my biological father is throwing his arm around me , saying have you met my son ? This is my son and for the first time , at 34 , 35 years old , I knew what it was like to be loved by a father . Reason why I share that story isn't just because it's a great story of reconciliation to me and my father . It speaks to a greater story of our reconciliation to our father in heaven . How could you be discouraged knowing that , through the blood of Christ , god , the father has his arm around you , saying this is my son , this is my daughter .

Philip DeCourcy 38:29

Behold what manner of love the father have bestowed upon us and we should be called the sons Amen .

Emeal Zwayne 38:35

Thank you for making my eyeball sweat . Oscar that's so powerful .

Overcoming Discouragement and Finding Hope

Emeal Zwayne 38:40

And you know , pastor , I love the fact that you talked about plotting on . You know , eric , little of chariots of fire fame . He said that famous line he would run as he was speaking with a sister because he felt the pleasure of God . And when you think about what he endured , I mean this is a guy that took a stand and wouldn't run in the race . He was favored to win Because it was on a Sunday and he had a conviction not to run on the Lord's day . We're on . So he ends up running , winning the 400 . But you think of what , what he , what he had to Persevere through in order to get to that point . But he did it because he sensed the pleasure of God , which meant that he was where God wanted him to be , doing what God wanted him to do . And I've had people ask me before what is it that's caused you to press on in ministry ? Because there's this misnomer , right , people see us in the limelight , they see us in moments of victory , when we're preaching , and maybe God moved , but they don't see us when we're we're . We're crying out God help me , as as we're struggling with attacks and we're dealing with all kinds of Discouragements . But ? But my answer to them was it's because I know I'm doing what God has called me to do , and that's what helps us to press on .

Oscar Navarro 39:44

So pastor , I want to read this .

Emeal Zwayne 39:45

I want to read this quote by J I packer about the Puritans , and then I'd love you to comment it and then share whatever , yeah , you want to share . He said the Puritans were great souls serving a great God . In them , clear-headed passion and warm-hearted compassion combined , visionary and practical , idealistic and realistic , too , goal oriented and methodical . They were great believers , great hopers , great doers and great sufferers . But their sufferings , both sides of the ocean , in old England from the authorities and in new England from the elements , seasoned and ripened them till they gained a stature that was nothing short of heroic . Ease and luxury such as our affluence brings us today Do not make for maturity . Hardship and struggle , however , do , and the Puritans battles Against the spiritual and climactic wilderness in which God set them , produced a virility of character , undaunted and unsinkable , rising above discouragement and fears , for which the true precedents and models are men like Moses and Nehemiah , and Peter after Pentecost , and the apostle Paul .

Philip DeCourcy 40:51

Yeah , you guys touched on this . Let's embrace the context of our discouragement not necessarily the discouragement and allow God to use our trials to complete us James 1 , or to make us more persevering and enduring . The one old phrase that jumps out in what you just quoted is well , they were great hopers . And one of the things we haven't touched on and I wrote it down to make sure we got to this point is the importance of the doctrine of Jesus' return when it comes to discouragement . It's a huge theme . I mean , I was just looking here at 2 Corinthians , 4 , 16, . Therefore , we do not lose heart , even though our outward man is perishing , yet the inward man is being renewed day by day for our light affliction , which is , but for a moment , is working for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory , while we do not look at the things which you're seeing , but the things which are unseen . The things which are seen are temporary , but the things which are unseen are eternal . And here's one example of the hope of Jesus' return , glorified state , and you heaven and you earth , rewarded by God reigning with Christ . We could go down the list of things that are set before the early believers . I mean . Look at Revelation 2 to 3 , right , I just preached in Revelation on Sunday . Here's the church being persecuted under the mission , discouraged , some martyrdom is taking place and every single letter ends with the carrot of eternal life and eternal joy . You won't taste the second death , you'll reign with Christ . Your name's written down on a stone , and I just think that's important . I try to keep a robust eschatology alive in my life , remind myself that I live , like Martin Luther , this day for that day . Because of him , living for that day , I can endure this day . This is the ugly , short life . This is where the world hates us . This is living under the shadow of death . This isn't the sunlight of God's glory , this isn't the eternal state . Ray and I are great fans of Margaret Thatcher and I remember she said I can be extraordinarily patient so long as I get my way in the end . Can you be patient when you know the finish lines just around the corner , when you know what lies on the other side of the hill ? Hb Charles is a friend of mine . We just preached together . He told a great story that reinforces this also of a pastor who was ganged up in his church and basically voted out . And the night that he ends as ministry he gathers his stuff , he's walking out to the car lab , he's about to get into his car . It's a scourging moment one can imagine . His heart's got to be in his shoes and an old deacon follows him out and he's heartbroken and a bit of a supporter of the pastor and he says to him pastor , what are you going to do now ? And he says , well , I'm going to heaven . And he goes what do you mean ? You're going to heaven . We know you're going to heaven , but what are you going to do now ? He says I'm going to heaven and at the point is we're all going to heaven and we've got to keep that very much at the front of our mind because it will help us endure . The old pastor was saying this kind of sucks to some degree . I don't like it , but I'm going to heaven . I lost this , I'll live this and I love that little story . And if we need to remind ourselves every day we're going to heaven , get up , keep going . Christ's victory yeah .

Mark Spence 44:38

We have to remember . Let's have a lofty view of God's sovereignty . Things are not falling apart , they're falling into place . Think about that . That's not original , but it's so true . Things are not falling apart , they're falling into place . I love this little scripture they that worship the Lord must worship him in spirit and in truth . And this idea of truth . It speaks of two different things . One we're obviously very familiar with we worship the correct God , so the more we get to know God , the more things will begin to make sense within his economy . And the second , maybe not so much , but it speaks of worshiping God with an honest tongue , with an honest life , where you can go to the Lord , you can approach the Lord and you can say I'm confused or I don't feel like worshiping you . It's like that AW Tozer quote I don't desire you , but I desire to want to have a desire for you . That's all I have right now and that's what I'm bringing before you . And so the Lord draws near . So when we worship God in the midst of these , in the midst of the chaos , right , we have to understand that God doesn't need any counsel . Right , if he needed wisdom , you wouldn't know about it . He knows what he's doing inside of our lives , right ? If you're a Christian , listen , we've read the last chapter . You know God wins , right and everything . Spoiler alert , spoiler alert , right ? So this is not an issue , it's an opportunity . I don't know what you're going through , but I know who's going through that with you . That's good , amen , right , and so have your eyes on the Lord . When your eyes are on the Lord , you really , reverentially , can mock the tumultuous storm ?

Emeal Zwayne 46:07

Absolutely , ray . You know , one of the things about Paul the apostle that has been an encouragement to me was seeing how he would see light in the midst of darkness , and this is one of my favorite passages that demonstrates that . St Corinthians 4 , 8 to 11 . We are hard pressed on every side , yet not crushed . We're perplexed but not in despair , persecuted but not forsaken , struck down but not destroyed , always caring about , in the body , the dying of the Lord Jesus . That the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body , for we who live are always delivered to death . For Jesus' sake , that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh . I mean , he's highlighting all those points of negativity , but he's coming back by encouraging himself and saying , hey , there's this , but look , we're not here . And ultimately , even with death , he's pointing toward life , the life of Christ shining through us .

Ray Comfort 47:00

You saw what I read that now . Devotions last night .

Emeal Zwayne 47:03

Wow and .

Ray Comfort 47:03

I'm just thinking that , talking about darkness and looking for the light , I think the darkest time ever for the disciples were the night of just before the resurrection .

Emeal Zwayne 47:11

There's absolute horror .

Ray Comfort 47:13

Who would have believed such a thing could take place ? And he walked on the sea , multiplied fishes , he raised the dead . And here he is taken from us by this horrific death . And yet look what was coming . Look at the . When the sun came up up , came the sun .

Mark Spence 47:26

Oh , that's a good quote . Right , put your hands down . Right Comfort .

Emeal Zwayne 47:29

You spent the whole week . Don't forget that one , that one's original . Well , pastor , this has been absolutely fabulous . I can't believe how quickly the time has flown and we've got to have you back for sure . But I want friends . You've now tasted . You've heard of us talk about Pastor Phil for so long here on the podcast , but now you've tasted a bit of You've narrowly noticed .

Ray Comfort 47:49

it's not true what it means .

Emeal Zwayne 47:51

You've discovered why we should leave the church . No , but you've tasted of Church . Discipline is coming . You've tasted of what Mark and I get to taste of weekly and why we've been so blessed , and especially to see our family fed . But , Pastor , I'd love you to tell our listeners just about your ministry about Know the Truth , your radio ministry about Kindred , the Church that's in Anaheim . We'd love to invite anyone who'd love to come visit to come by . But Phil , the people and maybe any books you've got that are available , Sure , I mean , hey we love people to come by the church .

Philip DeCourcy 48:22

If they're in our area they can go to kindredchurchorg and you'll get all kinds of information about church services and Bible studies in small groups and training seminars that we put on . And then the radio's a joy , something I never expected , but God in His goodness has opened that door for me and I embrace it . I love First Thessalonians 1 . From you echoed out , From you sounded out , the word of God , and I think radio and podcasting just gives me another avenue by which to do that . And God has been good and we'd love to people to connect with us at kttorg . We've got a brand new website . We've got an app they can download and listen to the sermons . We've got a list of materials . I'm not necessarily going to push anyone book . I've written a book about my time in the police . I've written a book on the role of women in the church . I've written a book on contentment . I've written a book on anxiety . It's all there . Just go to kttorg and hit the resources page . We also have just launched a small little podcast called so True Devotionals , where I just take like a five , seven minutes bite-sized theology perspective and bring that to people . So look just like yourselves . We're just in the business of preaching Christ , exalting Him , getting God's word out , because having an earth will pass away , but the word of the Lord will endure forever .

Emeal Zwayne 49:45

Yeah , When's your book ?

Oscar Navarro 49:46

Pasturing , Two Knuckleheads come out .

Philip DeCourcy 49:50

Well , there you have it Because I'll be a best seller . Actually , that would be a great title , wouldn't it ?

Ray Comfort 49:55

The past is pasting to knuckleheads .

Emeal Zwayne 49:57

Well , there you have it , friends . The Alsternite himself will have a tab where you can have a translation into real English if you didn't understand a word he said . But thank you for joining us , friends . Hey , don't forget why Jesus by Ray Comfort , the Living Waters Mug and the Amateur Study Bible all at livingwaterscom . Remember to comment and to also subscribe to the podcast . Again , you have helped us become one of the top podcasts in the world , with a five-star rating . Keep it up , friends . Thank you for joining us . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast . The ultimate cure for insomnia .