Yeah , listen , sometimes people need to be called out and that doesn't exactly seem to be a peaceful thing . But you'd be surprised that people don't need to be called out as much as you think , especially inside of a church setting . I remember I was attending a church some time ago and my theology began to evolve and I was in a teaching position and I remember approaching the pastor and I said listen , though my theology is evolving , I will not teach something contrary to what is taught here . God hates discord , he hates the division that can happen , and I was careful not to do that until finally I just didn't belong , I didn't fit and I needed to kind of move on . So we do need to be careful that we don't cause division and discord , that we don't do things that are not necessary . So we need to ask ourselves , we need to pause . How important is it for me to speak up at this moment to bring forth my opinion to what maybe even two of the people are talking about ? The people are talking about the people are talking about .
Speaker 2Welcome to the how Many Teeth Would they have If they Didn't Live in the Modern Era Game , where we find out how many teeth they would have if they didn't live in the modern era . I would say that with Mark's Krispy Kreme Addiction and Oscar's chocolate covered lima bean habit , they both have about half a tooth each . That's my guess . And , ray , I would say that with the 1 , 1⁄10 of a nanosecond that you spend brushing and flossing your teeth , I would say you would have 1 , 1⁄10 of a tooth . Would you agree ? I would slow it down , Would you agree ?
Speaker 3Ray , yeah , I slowed it down . Yeah , I brush my teeth in the shower always save time .
Speaker 2Yeah , ray , seriously , why have you guys none of you guys have ever brushed your teeth . What does the shampoo taste like ?
Speaker 3I foam at the mouth .
Speaker 2I would absolutely love to video you brushing and floss . I've never seen anything like it in my life .
Speaker 3You have to slow it down .
Speaker 2Have you ever seen Ray floss or brush ? Yeah , I remember one time he pulled out the floss . I'm thinking , oh , here we go , this guy Done like from done , he has no time Brush it done . What a waste of time .
Speaker 3Get my eye , baby . I'm fine . I haven't had up shoelaces for years .
Speaker 2Yeah , let me ask you guys this how many times do you guys think the average person will spend flossing and brushing their teeth over the course of their lifetime ? I think it's different .
Speaker 3I gotta guess 15 minutes .
Speaker 4I flush floss after every meal .
Speaker 2Yeah , I don't think many people do . No , no , the average two times a day , or flossing once .
Speaker 1I think . Well , listen , I think the majority of people do not floss their teeth . I like Oscar floss after every single meal . I do too .
Speaker 3I mean not two teeth , I've got this little plastic device in my pocket . Yeah , it's really good I actually gave one with a track to somebody accidentally . I apologize .
Speaker 2Okay , listen to this . This is a UK thing , but the UK's average life expectancy currently standing at 81.5 years , if a person brushes their teeth for two minutes twice a day , over the course of their life , it would equate to 118,980 minutes , the equivalent of 1,983.16 hours , or slightly more than 82 days 82 days .
Speaker 4I mean you're talking . That's why I don't brush my teeth . What a waste of time .
Speaker 2But you're talking 24 hour , like just . You start now and 82 days later . Hey , maybe someone should do that when they're a kid and never have to brush their teeth
Just done .
Speaker 1I'm done 82 days . I have an electric toothbrush . It takes me exactly three minutes to brush .
Speaker 3Yeah , I've got electric toothbrush too , but I don't spend three minutes . Three minutes , I put it on high speed . Yeah and I don't dump my shoelaces . I always I just slip on my shoes , Cause I just spend two weeks tying shoelaces and a lifetime .
Speaker 4Did you look that up one day ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I figured it out .
Speaker 2If you followed your dentist orders and you spent about 730 minutes . You spent 730 minutes last year more than half a day shoving wax string between your teeth . If you started at 10 and went to 80 , you're spending 35 days out of your life flossing . So between flossing and brushing , 112 days . Double that for Oscar and myself .
Speaker 3Out of your lifetime .
Speaker 2Yeah , but you guys are crazy .
Speaker 3Why does the dentist tell you to floss ? He wants your business , he wants to drill .
Speaker 2He shouldn't tell you to say give it to you see , if you guys floss , okay , but if you had one or the other and you could only do one or the other , would you floss or brush Floss ? Oh , brush Floss 100% floss , oscar .
Speaker 4I really can't stand having food between my teeth .
Speaker 2I think I'd floss .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think I've changed my mind .
Speaker 2No , because yeah , you're sleeping and teeth , you know , food is stuck between your hands and Fur and that Cavities 3-1 . Fur between your teeth . They say apples . He didn't hear in your teeth , yeah don't you know ?
Speaker 4what's the worst is getting cotton between your teeth .
Speaker 2Oh , utter torment . 20 gallons of toothpaste as used by the average person .
Speaker 3Guys , do you take ? Do you squeeze every ounce out of the tooth ?
Speaker 4Yes , I don't know why you won't let it go .
Speaker 3I don't know I can do this . I'm gonna get one more out of it .
Speaker 4The other day I was doing that and I thought to myself this isn't worth it .
Speaker 3Like how much money am I saving here , but I still did it . I don't know what's wrong with me . Yeah , you're not alone .
Speaker 2I know . You know what I stopped doing . I used to when the soap would get bad in the shower . Well , when it got small , yeah , I would like kind of roll it up in a ball and put it next on the next one . But I don't do that anymore .
Speaker 3You don't roll the ball , you put it on top and squeeze .
Speaker 2Well , you do , but sometimes it's mushy and stuff . I use liquid soap , you do . Oh , really , body wash stuff .
Speaker 4I bet our listeners did not plug in today , expecting to hear our shower .
Speaker 2Yeah , enough of that .
Speaker 3I always jump a shoelaces in the shower as well .
Speaker 2Racistly , you'd never tie your shoes .
Speaker 3No , no , there they are there .
Speaker 2When's the last time you tie them ?
Speaker 3pre-tag when I bought . Purchase these ones , tie them once and just slip them on . That's why they look too big on me .
Speaker 2Why don't you give them those shoes right ? All right , friends . Here's a comment from Haas 96 how much you want to bet . Easy's name is gonna be mentioned in this these three guys Fantastic podcast with Ray , mark and Oscar always encouraged and uplifted when I listened to . You three Would love to sit and enjoy delicious cup of coffee in a mug with you guys . I purchased and received the Halloween track box last week , excited to pass them out in our Neighborhood . Emma , johns , man , oscar , you are having an influence . Wow , and boy , were you ever wrong , mark ?
Speaker 1I judge me off and ashes to judge me .
Speaker 3You made it up to New Year's .
Speaker 2Guys . Thanks , haas 96 . I will not be sending you the big check . Send you , but there you go . All right , friends , this podcast is brought to you by Banana man . How a demeaning nickname opened amazing doors for the gospel book . If you're afraid of looking foolish as a Christian , not only will this true story fascinate , delight and encourage you , but it will also help you see God's hand in your life and bring your own fears into Perspective and will make you more fruitful more .
Speaker 4Fruitful banana men were really peel back the story and how Ray became a banana man .
Speaker 2That was a good slip of the tongue . Banana peel Ray . This book was . I Wasn't painful to write it , or was this after you overcame the pain ?
Speaker 3Yes , after I've been over paying the game . Yeah , I became the game pain . Yeah , I enjoyed writing it , but I could see the overall picture .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's really , but . But I mean , we've mentioned this before , but it really was a . There was a tough season for you .
Speaker 3Oh , it's horrible . I still get . I still find comments from people all the time the man and that's all they say that's the insult , but it makes me smile , and Scotty is the one that lifted me out of that really , oh yeah , tell us a story , what it's well we're driving a hunting beach and I just as oh , how horrible it is that strangers come up . She let banana man pointed me a laugh and he said you know God can use this . Why don't you , why don't you just try it ? And so that's when we invited I don't know Someone . No , we . We had lunch with that atheist . Yeah , he wanted to meet banana man . He was the president of American atheists . So I thought , oh , this is great , it's open a great door . And we had . What an hour and a half lunch , adam remember there .
Speaker 4No , it wasn't a more than that's the . That's the NBA guy .
Speaker 3So silver silver man , dave silver man . No , david silver , david silver , yeah , yeah that's what it was ?
Speaker 2Yeah , it's very nice .
Speaker 3We had a great time . Aaron , a half it was .
Speaker 2It was surprisingly pleasant . I mean , you know , not that I thought the guy was a monster , but he , he really , he was friendly and he was laughing and it was .
Speaker 3And he said that he was there when I preached at the atheist convention back in 2001 . Oh yeah as a kid . He was just a little kid then .
Speaker 4No , no yeah wow , I love the way that name banana man is just ripe to be used .
Speaker 3Why is banana man funny and Apple man isn't A whole ?
Speaker 2man , coconut man , that would be . That'd be cute . Yeah , yeah , but Ray , would you ? I would love to see you sit down with Richard Dawkins .
Speaker 3Oh , I love that yeah .
Speaker 2We do that sage yeah , oh yeah he's getting 80 something mark , if you really you're happy . If you had your choice of Anyone who's an unbeliever to sit down with For , like an interview or or whatever , who would ? Who would you pick ?
Speaker 1It'd be either between Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan , really , oh , I feel the same . Maybe Bill Maher .
Speaker 3Probably in third boy . No , that is , you've got my top three .
Speaker 4Not just atheists , any non-believer , yeah , so would you pick ?
Speaker 2It's a good question you know it is a good question . Maybe Ben Shapiro , and that you know he's , he's had a lot of believers , plant and water with him . I mean , he's had MacArthur on , he's had Vodion , he's had , you know . I would just love to add to that a little bit .
Speaker 3And why don't we get those four in here ?
Speaker 2Get him in here . Peace between .
Speaker 4Jews and Arabs . Can we choose living or dead ? Sure , I'd go with David Foster Wallace , really for sure .
Speaker 3What would be what , but he wouldn't say much anymore .
Speaker 4I'd go David Foster Wallace . I Probably go Sam Harris . Oh and yeah . Well , I'll choose two for me .
Speaker 2That's good , yeah , market why ? Why Rogan and or Peterson ?
Speaker 1well , I I don't think they've had great influences , christian influences , inside their life that would be able to rightly articulate what we believe and then hold them to the fire , right ? I think that they are a little passive and then they attack straw man arguments . So I think that would be good to share the gospel , share the law and you know and they're both searching .
Speaker 2Yeah , I mean with Peterson , especially Peterson , you know , because he a lot of people , I think make the mistake of thinking , oh , he must be a Christian . He's definitely not . But I would love to put it to him and say what is your hang up Like what ? What is it about Christ that you're having a hard time with here , you know , and just kind of Push it that way , yeah , yeah . So anyway , I don't know how we got out on all that , friends , but I was talking about banana man . Make sure to check it out , along with the link waters mug and the evidence study Bible , all at living waters . Wow , you're getting ready for that , oscar , you're right , he's coming . Yeah , all right , friends , today we are talking about how to be an effective Peacemaker . Peacemaker yeah , that's offensive . I almost sounded like pacemaker mark .
Yeah , peacemaker guys , yeah , peacemaking is Is something that I think kicks against our nature in every way . I think part of it is . We love to see a good fight . Ray , why are your eyes closed ?
Speaker 3You look no one just thinking about the word peacemaker and pacemaker , how they're very similar , I know .
Speaker 2I know . But , yeah , you know , I think there's that part of us that loves to see . We like , we just like drama . Hmm , you know and I mean we've talked about it before even the way things are titled by people , how people title their their you know podcasts or their videos on YouTube or whatever . If it's something mellow , it's like you know whatever . But if it's like you know , Mark Spence punches Jordan Peterson what ?
Speaker 1why I was just sitting there .
Speaker 3Why would you do that ? We just put a video up and it was Ray talks to the nicest atheists and I thought that's not gonna work it was just a phenomenal guy that I was interviewing .
Speaker 1Yeah , you know well , and it's gone nowhere .
Speaker 3It's had 40,000 views . That should have gone up through the top . But yeah , it's got no punch to it and we don't know . We don't know what to title it . Yeah , I should have got on a Pokemon eye out .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , I mean , but there's something about that . But , but , man , you know to be a person who is is bent on making peace with others . We'll kick it off , of course , with with the most famous words regarding that Matthew 5 9 Blessed are the peacemakers . Oh , how happy are the peacemakers , for they shall be called Sons of God , and we're talking about peacemaking both between other people and between ourselves and others .
Speaker 1And being a third as well , yeah , which is not necessarily bringing a momentary pause between people yelling and arguing and fighting , but a peace between God and man . Right Blessed are the peacemakers who bring forth the gospel , the good news that blessed are those feet , blessed is that message , and oh , how happy is the individual who brings forth an eternal message that will bring the ultimate peace in someone's life .
Speaker 2Amen . Yeah , ray , I I've always kind of had a I don't know a fondness for that term make peace with God . I mean it's a common one you'll hear said oftentimes say you need to make peace with God . Elaborate on that a little bit , right . I mean , to some of our listeners I mean , what do you mean make peace with God ? God nice and Well , we're enemies of God and am I through wicked works .
Speaker 3People don't realize that that we're in a state of hostility towards God , and I've often said that there's no person in history that's ever had his name used as a curse word other than Jesus Christ . And I think there's one thing that makes him really hated and really said . He said the world hates me because I testify of its deeds . They're evil , but I think the thing that stirs the world up to make them hateful towards him and use his name as a curse word is whoever looks upon a woman to lust for her is committed adultery already wither in his heart . That puts the finger in the eye of every man , whatever . It's just like you know , so we're told to have our feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace . It's called the gospel of peace and , as Mark said , how beautiful on the mountains the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace . And so that's what brings the ultimate peace between God and man . We were enemies of God in our minds . He reconciles us through the cross . Just thinking this morning , there are certain things that steal my peace . I'm gonna go to the natural here , if I may . I really hate leaf blowers at my window on a Sunday morning . That really steals my peace . Let me share a few of them . Car alarms there's a neighbor who's got the weakest car . All it takes is a motorbike to go past the thing and it says his car alarm off . I've been doing it for years , Are you ?
Speaker 1serious .
Speaker 3Oh , oh , oh oh , and it goes for ages .
Speaker 1You think , yeah , some things are wrong with that car alarm .
Speaker 3Yeah , like oh . And then there's the barking dog . We're at a neighbor . I don't mind that dog , it's all right here . Yeah , that's a little one , this is a big one . Our direct neighbors barking dog the first 500 times was okay , first 500 . But they went on a three day holiday and left their dog and all it did was years ago at barked , day and night . This is a German shepherd . Oh , oh , oh , oh . And seriously , there's something about repetition that drives human beings like . You can handle a dripping tap 50 times . Then suddenly it gets louder and louder . For some reason . We actually I actually mentioned to the neighbor I think I left a message on his voicemail . I said your dog's been barking for three days all year away , and they brought over a gift basket for us which was really , really sweet . That's cool , but there's certain things . And the other thing guys , how do you handle a crying baby when you're preaching in the congregation , Can you ?
Speaker 4that's one thing that really that's when you start preaching on sin .
Speaker 3Yeah , Lady in the front row she's not sat on the back , she's in the front row and she's got a crying baby Everyone's looking at screaming . So there's certain things that steal my peace Leaf blowers , car alarms , barking dogs and fighting cats .
Speaker 2Wipe by your bedroom window . Oh , Rachel filmed a couple outside of our window . The other Really . Didn't she send that to you ?
Speaker 3I remember she mentioned .
Speaker 2I love to send it to you , but it's a horrible sound .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's crazy . So there are certain things and the whole life is filled with things that want to steal our peace , to take away that peace that passes all understanding , and you've got to just stay with them . The thing that makes me gives me great consolation , as Romans 8 , 28 . No matter what's happening to us , we can have peace because we know that God's working this out very good , even if it is a barking dog . So I don't know how anyone could suffer more than I suffer there . Let me just go on one more thing . I saw something the other day . The other day and if you've got problems this might bring your problems into proportion . This married mom , christian , had a kidney stone , went in to have it fixed , turned septus or whatever in her body . They removed her arms and legs .
Speaker 4What .
Speaker 3Yeah , and I got this video of her . I say because I want to do a video on it . It showed her testifying and she was filled with joy and say God's going to use this and if it turns people to righteousness , so be it . Ray , why did she go in For a kidney stone and she had her arms and legs removed ? Yeah , it wasn't a mistake . Something turned poison and they said sorry , we just have to take arms and legs off .
Speaker 2So that's crazy . So what's your problem ? Again , I don't really have a problem . Well , it's that thing you wrote , ray . I love it . Oh , I have a problem . It's one of the best things . I've shared that so many times in my sermons . Yeah , mark , as Ray talked about that German shepherd with the deep voice , it almost made me long for it , because it's like when you hear one thing for so long , this one has a high voice . I have mixed feelings towards it .
Speaker 3What do you mean about the dog next door to the house ?
Speaker 2I feel like that would be a break for me if I had a deep voice .
Speaker 1Yeah , there's a dog with incessant barking right outside of EZ's and Oscars office . It's bad .
Speaker 3But there's a way to fix it . It's a steak , soaked super glued steak , just .
Speaker 1Here comes the comment . But with the German shepherd . I was mauled by a German shepherd right when I was younger , so I don't know if I want to hear the bark of either one . Yeah , that's true .
Speaker 2Yeah . So that's good , Ray , that's a good perspective on understanding that we can have peace from God because we have peace with God , and that peace can transcend into whatever circumstance situation we're in . I mean , Jesus said it peace give I unto you . My peace not as the world gives me , Give I unto you . It's an unconditional peace that's not tied to circumstance . It's hard to , I mean , and it's hard to describe it . We've all experienced it , but it really is hard to articulate what it's like Don't even try , because the Bible says it's a piece of the past is all understanding .
Speaker 3And let me tell you about my , let me tell you about the joy that I have . It's totally unspeakable .
That's good , yeah , but you know , and on that note of peace with God , I love the saying that says you know , god saved us by himself , through himself , for himself and from himself , and that's an important one to remember . You know from himself . Yes , god saved us from God because it was his wrath that we had deserved , you know .
Speaker 3That's one thing the atheist do to mock the gospel . God he saved us from himself makes no sense to him , because they don't understand God's character .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . So , oscar , what do you think of all this ?
Speaker 4stuff . Yeah , I think one . I love that we're talking about being a peacemaker and I think one of the things we have to do is help us first start to understand what does the scriptures mean by peace ? The Old Testament uses the word shalom , and I think that's a good place to start . Yeah , because in the Old Testament we see that shalom doesn't just mean like a place of serenity I'm in a place of peace which it can mean that , and it certainly does mean that but it means more than that too . Shalom is used in the Old Testament to talk about wholeness or completeness , and so if there was a wall with missing stones , it lacked shalom , and to rebuild that wall , to place those stones there , to fill in the cracks , you would bring it to a place of shalom . You would ask others if they had peace in their life . They had shalom , and if there was relational conflict , they were out of shalom and they would go to sort of mend that relational conflict and they would find themselves in a place of shalom again . Or another example is two warring nations . Peace wasn't just when those two warring nations stopped having a war with one another . It wasn't until those two warring nations began to start to work together for each other's good , that you would say they had shalom . And so what Graham Cole says in the book God the Peacemaker is that he says that you can essentially trace God's peace project from Genesis 3.15 , through the Abrahamic Covenant , into Exodus , all throughout the Old Testament , climaxing at Isaiah 53 . And then you see it begin to be fulfilled in Jesus the faithful son . He says the faithful son because he points out that Adam was not faithful , that Israel was not faithful as it pertains to bringing shalom into the world , but Jesus was the one who obeyed the Father and then dies to reconcile us . And so , when the scriptures say that we are peacemakers , we are taking on the peace project that God left behind through his son , jesus Christ , to us , and I love the verse you quoted . I also love 2 Corinthians 5 , 18, . All this summarizing , summarizing the impact of the gospel . Paul says all this is from God who , through Christ , reconciled us to himself . There's the peace that you guys were talking about and gave us the ministry of reconciliation . And so God has called us , through the power of this Holy Spirit , to be his sons of reconciliation , to go out into the world and bring shalom , to make right all that has been made wrong .
Speaker 2Amen , that's good , really good . Oscar and Mark , I'd love you to comment on this . Proverbs 6 , 16 to 19 , where it says these six things the Lord hates , he has seven are an abomination . And then the last one cited is end one who ?
Speaker 1brings this for you .
Speaker 2This is scored among brethren , being the opposite of what we're called to do right , Bring peace . But there are those times when there are opportunities in the flesh to sow discord , and man God hates that .
Speaker 1Yeah , listen , sometimes people need to be called out and that doesn't exactly seem to be a peaceful thing . But you'd be surprised that people don't need to be called out as much as you think , especially inside of a church setting . I remember I was attending a church some time ago and my theology began to evolve and I was in a teaching position and I remember approaching the pastor and I said listen , though , my theology is evolving , I will not teach something contrary to what is taught here . God hates discord . He hates the division that can happen , and I was careful not to do that until finally I just didn't belong , I didn't fit and I needed to kind of move on . So we do need to be careful that we don't cause division and discord , that we don't do things that are not necessary . So we need to ask ourselves , we need to pause . How important is it for me to speak up at this moment to bring forth my opinion to what maybe even two other people are talking about ? I mean , we just did it not too long ago . We're at a church service and there's some , and we don't attend the church . You were speaking at an event and people started talking about stuff that neither one of us agree with and we just kind of bite our tongue . We allow people to be . People believe what they wanna believe when it comes to secondary , non-essential issues , and then we just move on . And that's the beauty about Christianity and Christianity in totality that people can believe different things that are not primary , essential issues . Don't bring the division . It's like you drop the bomb and you just walk away . Come on , unless you have an answer , just be still .
Speaker 2Yeah , and I think , ray , that ties to maturity . I mean , the older I get , the longer I've walked with the Lord , the stronger my convictions have become , but the more I'm slow to interject with those you know when I don't need to , and I think it's just patience . It's like not acting in the heat of the moment . You've said something to me in the past where don't make a decision when you're fired up about something .
Speaker 1Yeah , when you're on a plateau or when you're in a valley , don't make decisions .
Speaker 2Yeah , so , Ray , I mean that's the key , isn't it ?
Speaker 3Whosoever keeps his mouth and tongue keeps his soul from troubles . I mean , what should help us to keep our mouth from saying things is humility , exalting other people better than yourselves . Remember , in the movie Ben Hurd , which everyone should have seen , ben Hurd , after he had seen the cross , said I felt him take the sword out of my hand , something like that . I don't know if that's exactly right , but when we bring the gospel peace to a man or a woman , they may have anger in their heart , they may have war in their heart , but once they've got Christ in their heart , then they have access to a peace that they're gonna share within the marriage , within the workplace , and the gospel of peace is the answer to every problem in this world politics and warfare and marriages that are broken down . Trevor has asked me to get videos on a very difficult subject for me . I just flinched to this when he said he wants me to ask students should a woman submit to her husband To go with the podcast that we're doing ?
Speaker 2I don't want to be . There are some armor Ray . Yeah , I'm just thinking .
Speaker 3And how the world flinches at the thought that a woman should submit to her husband . But the caveat is that husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church , and a husband to whom a godly woman will submit is a man that would never speak against her , never do anything wrong . Take her under her arm , close to his heart . It was where the rib should be . So the world doesn't understand what we're talking about . We have an instruction book that makes marriage work , that makes nations work , and it all comes back to that gospel of peace .
Speaker 1Yesterday I had a conversation with my wife and my tone was not what it should have been and I saw that my wife's demeanor had completely changed and my daughter had left the room . And I went in and talked to my daughter and I apologized that I was in general with mama . And then I went back to mama and I said obviously I believe what I said , but the way I said it was wrong . So it's not always what you say , but how you approach , how you broach the situation with who you're talking to .
Speaker 3You didn't like her smoking cigars or something .
Speaker 1I didn't like her smoking cigars and Cain's Smoker , wow . So I went back to her and I said it a few times that evening . Maybe I just wanna apologize for not being gentle as I communicated what I communicated with you .
Speaker 3When you're in something like that , you can't really see what you're doing . It's afterwards when you consider . So that wasn't a very good tone .
Speaker 2But yeah , it's so key that . But , mark , that's a good example of making peace right , because it involved you and you aired in something . It caused turmoil in your home and you did the right thing . And I'm always telling men this , guys some weird echoes going on , anyway , I we can hear ourselves through a speaker . I keep telling guys this , but with men , even if you are the one responsible for the sin that caused tension in your relationship , as the head of your home , as a leader , you're the one who's called the lead , the two of you , out of that , and you do that by acting in a godly way . And so , mark , thank you for giving Ray , oscar and I an example of what to do if we ever sin with our wives .
Speaker 4If we ever . I love how you started the podcast , which is identifying sort of this present age , this cultural moment , does . There's something almost celebrated about being divisive , about not being reasonable . The algorithm lords out there , pull from us anger and frustration , and that's what gets us to become more divisive and activates our action . Right , and we live in a time where we live in cancel culture , like if one person says one thing that you vaguely don't agree with , if it vaguely feels like they're compromising , then they're out . They're out of the tribe , you know . And yet the scriptures call us to be antithetical to the cultural moment . The powers and principalities of this world should have no influence on the heart of the Christian . We are to be peacemakers , and someone hearing this could be like well , what are you saying ? Are you saying that we can never stand up for truth ? Absolutely
not . Peace making it does not necessarily mean peace keeping . There are gonna be times where we have to advocate for truth . There are gonna be times where we need to say something that's gonna be not received well , but that's different than peace making , right , right ?
Speaker 1We never turn a blind eye to evil , Never . We never turn a blind eye . We always speak up when we have the ability .
Speaker 2Yeah , and again , that's Romans 12 , 18 . If it is possible , as much as depends on you , live peaceably with all men . I stole your verse , mark . Yeah , okay , good .
Speaker 1But yeah right , Good , it's like the division discord . Ah , I'm a brother .
Speaker 2Yeah , but no , it's so true , oscar , that we have to recognize that , like I always say , compassion or to be compassionate , but compassion does not equal compromise . Peace making does not equal sacrificing the truth right Either , or holding back what needs to be said . In fact , that's often the pathway to peace . Absolutely , you can't have peace without truth , you know , and so that's important . And then also , we're not responsible for always achieving peace when we try . Piper put it well . He said don't equate peacemaking with peace achieving . A peacemaker longs for peace and works for peace and sacrifices for peace . But the attainment of peace may not come right . Romans 12 , 18 , which I just quoted , is very important at this point . And he quotes the verse that is a goal of a peacemaker , if possible , so far as it depends on you . Don't let the rupture and the relationship be your fault . That's good , but yet you can't guarantee that someone's gonna meet you on terms of peace , you know . So , yeah , so those things are so key . And then and Mark , in keeping with what you shared with us , that story with Laura Share more . Matthew five tell us more of your sins , mark . Matthew five , 23 to 24 . Therefore , if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you , leave your gift there before the altar and go your way . First be reconciled to your brother and then come and offer your gift , ray . The key in that is he's saying . Therefore , if you bring your gift to the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you , ray , what are you doing ?
Speaker 3I got a great quote from Spurgeon and I pushed my microphone button and everything you were saying is going straight under the quote from Spurgeon , so I'm seeing it expand with your words . You couldn't stop it . Okay , I've now stopped .
Speaker 2Okay , did you hear what I said , Ray ? No , I didn't have a clue . Oh man , get me out of here . Okay . So if Jesus is saying I'd like to share this quote , Okay , share your quote . Welcome to Insanity , brother .
Speaker 3Charles Spurgeon said such poor creatures are we that we may lose our peace of mind even by a word or a look ? Peace in the form of a perfect calm and serenity is a very delicate and sensitive thing and needs more careful handling than a crystal glass . It is hard for the sea of our hearts to remain long in a smooth and glassy state . It may be rippled and ruffled by an infant's breath . Ooh , and all your words went right in the middle if that makes no sense .
Speaker 2Yeah , what a beautiful quote . I just roughed in the peace of that peaceful quote . That's really good , Ray . But now answer what I said , Ray .
Speaker 3Yeah , I think it's a great idea . He's the only hope . We should all strive to do that .
Speaker 2Yeah , no . But Jesus is saying here he's talking about making peace , but the key is he's saying if your brother , you remember that your brother has something against you . It's not even you being frustrated with him . He's not saying you know . He's saying if you know someone has something against you , you go to them and make peace first . That's huge .
Speaker 3Well , that's what love does , that's what the wisdom from above does , the wisdom from Baba's first , peaceable , easy to be entreated , and that's what we need to cultivate . Yeah , that'll do . Thanks , ez .
Speaker 1What is the scripture of bluster those who dwell in unity . Is that how it's worded ?
Speaker 3Yeah , brotherhood dwell in unity . It's the , it's the Psalm that speaks of the oil that went down In unity to dwell in unity .
Speaker 2Lai lai , lai , lai , lai , lai , lai , lai lai lai , lai actually . Oh , how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together .
Speaker 4Hey , unity , it's an unity you turn into like a Russian . Yeah . I'm sorry , I actually think this is a . I think you guys are circling around something really important that we haven't talked about yet , which is the difference between peace making and peace keeping , as people we know , and love are in sin . Like it would be wrong to be passive , to try to be a peace keeper by not approaching somebody who's in sin . It's actually more right , it's more in the active piece making of being in shalom , to approach that person because you want to see shalom between them and Christ , because you want to see shalom in their lives in which there are no sin , and so we do that with gentleness , with kindness , with humility . But the scriptures does call us to be activated in the conversation of pursuing people who are in sin for the sake of peace .
Speaker 1Yeah , Listen , jesus said I didn't come to ring peace but a sword , and that's what truth will do . You know , matthew Henry said that truth is such a precious jewel that he'll give anything for it except for the truth , right ? So he's not going to surrender the truth at the cost of so that I can have peace and tranquility between two people Right .
Speaker 2Yeah Well , and that's a false peace . You know , it's almost like . It's almost like having a terminal illness , but deceiving yourself into not thinking about it , that's exactly right , and just thinking , oh , I'm good . The destruction is , it's getting already happening , yeah , and it's spreading and it's going to lead to your demise . So that is really important . But as far as initiation , I want to read this quote from Jerry Bridges . He said we must take the initiative to restore peace . Jesus taught that it makes no difference whether you have wronged or your brother , or he has wronged you . Either way , you are always responsible to initiate efforts toward peace . If we're serious about intently pursuing peace , we won't be concerned about which of us is the offending party . We'll have one goal to restore peace in a godly manner
. Unresolved conflict between believers is sin and must be treated as such . Otherwise it will spread throughout the body like cancer until it requires radical spiritual surgery . Far better to deal with it when it is easily contained and I think you know the balance and all that is like . It's the intent of the heart . You know , if we're holding on to bitterness , it'll be manifested by they need to come to me . But there could be a situation where you're looking and saying , okay , they need to repent because they're in sin . And I've said this before , our mode of correction should be fueled by one of the definitions of love , and that is love doesn't seek its own . So if I'm being selfless and approaching a sin that , yes , you committed against me , but that I think of on another level , what did that person do as a sin ? They first sinned against the God that I love above all else . They're hurting themselves spiritually because you can't sin and not be hurt spiritually , and they're hurting others because they're mourning the testimony of the gospel and limiting their effectiveness because they're in sin . I love God , I love them , I love other people . Therefore , my mode of correction will also contain all the other attributes of a Godly level . I'll correct them in patience . Let's correct them in kindness . You know I won't seek my own . I won't have , I won't keep records of wrong , I won't have outbursts of wrath and so forth .
Speaker 1Why were you pointing at me when you're talking about ?
Speaker 2the words that got me wrong . You know , mark , and you better make peace with me , mark . Yeah , yeah , it's the Wienerschnitzel bro .
Speaker 3That really is the Gethsemane experience that puts us in that continual mode . Not my will , but yours be done , and that's the attitude we should have to everyone . If someone offends us , we should be more concerned about God's will than our will , and that's what brings peace between us .
Speaker 2Amen , yeah , and on that point of approaching others , I mean look , matthew 18 , 15, . Moreover , if your brother sins against you , go and tell him his fault between you and him alone . If he hears you , you've gained your brother . And I think that has an element of peace to it . That we don't recognize that the between you and him alone . Right , because you're gonna cause chaos for him if there was a misunderstanding , number one , or if he ends up repenting but it's in other people's minds and now they look at him in a certain way . You know , love is always saying man , what can I do to limit damage to my brother ? You know , because it feels good sometimes to talk about things and get other people agreeing with us , and what are you going social meter and spread it to the whole world without going personally ?
Speaker 4Oh , that's a good idea . Oh , not do that yeah .
Speaker 2But what a guys , what a destructive element social media has been in this whole issue . Mark , wouldn't you say that in terms of stirring up stuff ?
Speaker 1Yeah , people vent at 2 am on their social media platform . We need to be very , very careful on what we do , especially naming names . You know , be very careful when we name names . It has to be dealing with heretics , I think not with fellow brethren . You know , let's be careful with that . Ken Sandy wrote a really great book that I've never read , called the Peacemaker , but it's on my to-do list but I'm told it's highly recommended by a lot of people . Ken Sandy , the Peacemaker yeah .
Speaker 3You just lost peace with him .
Speaker 2Richard Baxter said , he that is not a son of peace is not a son of God . All other sins destroy the church consequentially , but division and separation demolish it directly .
Speaker 3Wow , Isn't it wonderful that you can quote Richard Baxter , who that's a four 500 year old quote , isn't it ?
Speaker 2Pretty old .
Speaker 3Yeah , and yet it's so relevant to today . Yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , it's true , and I think basically what he's alluding to is that lack of peace between brethren is the antithesis of what Jesus said . You know , they will know your by my disciples , by your love for one another , and when there is , when there is disunity in a sinful manner , it just evidence is a fact that there isn't real love happening , love indeed , and in truth .
Speaker 4Yeah , I think it affects the gospel as well . I mean , when we go , you know , we see that the scripture tells us that that nonbelievers will know that the gospel is true by the way in which we love one another . And even inside of like Christendom , on online , I mean , there are ministries , organizations , podcast blogs that are all dedicated to the line of divisiveness . They all sit there on the threshold and are waiting for the next pastor to say something that's vaguely ambiguous and then call them out . You know , and man to your point , like we should have a taste for peace , not a taste for divisiveness . I'm not saying there's no place for that , but when that's like your entire thing , or when that's what consumes your attention and that's what gets the views , that and that's what gets the views , and that's the problem is that ultimately , the algorithms are there to entice our sinful nature , and so then the content , the content producers , wanting to get no more clicks and views , then tap into the sin nature of human beings . It's like they're antagonistic to the lack of peace that God is trying to bring about in his kingdom .
Speaker 2Yeah , and you think of what God's word has to say on the matter . It's filled with , again , those exhortations to be a people who strive to make peace between others and also to figure out ways to avoid it . You know , I think of what it talks about in Proverbs 17 , 9 to 10 , about how if you repeat a matter , you separate friends , you know . But if you cover a transgression , you seek love , and that's one thing , you know , like there could be peace between people and a matter's over . And then you bring up something from the past and that rekindle stuff , you know , rather than just thinking , okay , this is past , let's let it go . And how can I promote peace , you know ? I think another thing too is helping people to think the best . And you know how it is , guys . It starts as a seed , yeah , so , and so said this to me what did they say ? What ? Who's so ?
Speaker 4and so .
Speaker 2And what do we do ? They did oh man . How about ? Oh really man ? Wow , do you think ? Maybe they meant this ? Yeah , because that doesn't swear with the way they normally are , do you think ? Maybe you misunderstood ? I mean , I've approached things like that before and I've seen things turn around . Oh , maybe , maybe you're right . Maybe I should double check on that . Versus that's a peacemaker , yeah . Versus fueling , you know , and putting fuel on that fire Sharing gossip .
Speaker 3It's like putting water on a flame rather than gasoline .
Speaker 1Yeah , exactly , you know , sharing gossip by way of per requests , you know is a very difficult , horrible thing to do . You know , isaiah 40 to 22 says there's no peace for the wicked . If there's no peace for the wicked , there's no peace for the righteous . When they do wicked things and perhaps somebody's listening to our podcast and they're thinking to themselves well , I lack the peace inside of my life . One either . A maybe you're not born again , you know . Make your colonial election . Sure , examine yourself to see if you're in the faith . Yeah , put yourself into the weight of the 10 commandments . Realize and recognize that you do not measure up and if God gives you justice , you rightly will go to hell . God is obviously not willing for that to happen . He's not one for any to perish , but for all to come to repentance . Place your trust where God , the Father , placed his wrath , which is in Jesus Christ alone . Now , if you are born again and you recognize that you don't have this peace at which we're talking about , just examine your life once again . Right , am I doing something ? Have I partaken in something ? Am I keeping something secret ? Are there shadows really inside my life that I don't want anybody to see ? Are there skeletons inside the closet that I don't want anybody to see ? What's happening ? Yeah , just take inventory . If there's no peace for the wicked , there's no peace for the righteous when they do wicked things . So accountability is great , absolutely . But maybe you just need to get along with the Lord , cry out to God and say search me and try me and see if there be any wicked way in me and lead me in the way everlasting . He's a very present help and time of need . You draw near to him , he will draw near to you . That promise still remains and is for the people of God .
Speaker 2Amen , that's good , mark . Yeah , and I love what Jim Elif said . He said to put a wall between you and others is to build a wall between you and God . And again , you know , it's the two greatest commandments Love God with all your heart , mind , soul and strength . Love your neighbor as yourself . What we miss is what Jesus said in between that . He said the second like it is this . The second like it Love the Lord , your God , allow your heart , mind , soul and strength . The second like it he's in essence equating them and interrelating them . You can't truly and first John right Speaks about this ad nauseam you can't love God and not love people . And the evidence that you love God and are in a right relationship with them is it's going to manifest in you loving other people . You know . And so , yeah , what are you going to say ? No ?
Speaker 1I was just going to say there's no way you came up with that .
Speaker 2That's too good , oh you like it , you like it , it's my friend . No , but you know what I'm saying Like . But also I think in being peacemakers we need to have a proactive approach to it Whenever it comes to our attention that there is not peace between people . You know especially people that we know like to just try to broker peace . I love that you know brokering peace , like where you're going in between two people . You're working as a mediator because , right , you're there , the angst is against each other , but you come in as an impartial party and you say , man , look , I don't care what the details are , I love you guys and I know it may not be possible , but if there's any way possible , would you be open if I just try to work something out , if I just try to work something between you guys ? Man , that delights the Lord . You're called a son of .
Speaker 4God when you do that and the hope in that , because you said , if there's any way possible and I love that language , as you're trying to invite people into that and the reason why you would do that is because we know there is a way possible . Yeah , right , like , if God provides a way of shalom between the sinner and himself . Right , and think about the things that we I was just talking about this with somebody Think about the things that you claim to believe . We talk so often about how the gospel has the power to reconcile slave and slave master , the power to reconcile sinner to God , and yet you're going to doubt that it has the power to reconcile you with another person . No , you know , if we approach that conversation humbly , god has the power to reconcile you with another person , the power to reconcile . That is the work he is doing through his people , which takes us back to the title of this . We are called to be peacemaking .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and I love how Christ is called the Prince of Peace , and you know , scripture talks about the Lord of Peace as well . And so , yeah , to walk in that peace that God gives and then to be one who acts as an agent to see it fulfilled in other people's lives . Well , there you have it , friends . We hope you've been encouraged and blessed . Stir it up . Don't forget Banana man , the Living Waters among the Evan Study Bible . Alllivingwaterscom . Why you point at Ray ? Because he's the banana man . Banana man , I love it . And don't forget , friends , to send in your beautiful comments , which we read on here all the time , and give us your thoughts and insults towards Ray , mark and Oscar . And don't forget , friends , to email us at podcastatlivingwaterscom . Thank you for joining us . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast . The ultimate cure for insomnia .