And I think oftentimes a big problem with us as believers is we just rush to decisions because we just want what we want and we don't pause to say no , I really and that's really the true test mark you hit it . Do we really say I want to hear everyone's counsel , even counsel that I don't really prefer because I want to settle on truth ? That's good , that's huge , and if we get to a place as Christians where we truly begin doing that , it'll change our lives . That's a true godly heart , a heart of selflessness that says Lord , I really want your will and , most importantly , I want to magnify love and I want to adorn the gospel and not disparage it in any way .
Speaker 2Yeah , love bears all things . You can get through that with God's help .
Speaker 3Welcome to the which one thing and one thing only . Would you rather have game where we share which one thing and one thing only . We would rather have a helicopter .
Speaker 1That's hurting my brain . I know it hurts mine constantly . All right , headache , stomach ache or toothache ? Oh , easy , yes , headache Really . Oh , I think so , mark . Headache , stomach ache , toothache .
Speaker 4I think a toothache . No , you've never had a toothache , have you ? I have None of these teeth are real .
Speaker 5Oh , that's good . I think I'm going to go with a headache they normally don't , although I had one yesterday and I never get headaches and it was brutal yeah .
Speaker 4Guys the name that claim that people are going to go wild .
Speaker 1I rebuke that . Yeah , I have had so many headaches over the course of my lifetime .
Speaker 4I would just sit right next to three of them . See great minds think alike Great brains .
Speaker 1I mean , you know , and you could do some ibuprofen and deal with it , Stand on your head . Or , if you're spiritual prey , do you guys ever get convicted , seriously , like you have a headache and you're like you're popping pills but you never even prayed ? Yeah .
Speaker 2Does anybody have any Tylenol ? I have a headache . Have you prayed ?
Speaker 3yet brother , yeah , brother Brother .
Speaker 1We need to resurrect the brother . Yeah , I think I would go with headache , all right . Insomnia , daytime sleepiness or anxiety Insomnia , daytime sleepiness all day , what yeah ?
Speaker 5but if you sleep , during the day .
Speaker 4You're not going to sleep at night . That's a problem .
Speaker 1That's raised the worst nightmare daytime sleepiness .
Speaker 4Yeah , you stay awake at night and just do some editing .
Speaker 1Ray , you don't eat a bunch of stuff anymore , so that you don't get daytime sleepiness .
Speaker 4No , no , I really don't like daytime sleepiness . It really is annoying , because if I sleep during the day , I'm not going to sleep at night . If you have a stay awake all day and you're tired , you sleep well , so you take insomnia or anxiety , then I take insomnia .
Speaker 1Never take insomnia . Are you crazy ? It makes me feel anxious .
Speaker 4A good drink of warm milk makes me sleep well . I've been doing that lately .
Speaker 1Seriously , I thought that was an old wives' tale .
Speaker 4Yeah well , old wives' tales sometimes Unless you're lactose . They're tales' wags sometimes .
Speaker 1Unless you're lactose , yeah , you'll be a not good advice . If you're lactose , no .
Speaker 4I have full cream milk now and I don't care .
Speaker 1There is something , though Bring on the kidney stones . Oh no kidney stones . Do you like a kidney stone ? Ray , I just have one , thanks . Seriously , atheists don't pray , but if they ever did pray , they should pray . Ray gets kidney stones .
Speaker 4How could you send that thought ?
Speaker 1out there , it's all unite for Ray to get kidney stones . Trillions of atheists are going to pray .
Speaker 5I will say one of the benefits of not being able to fall asleep . I have seasons where I have a hard time falling asleep at night . One of the benefits is I get a lot of reading done .
Speaker 4Guys , if you can't fall asleep on deadly series of others , count backwards from 200 and start with your even numbers and then do your odd numbers and you'll get a sleep like that .
Speaker 1You know what , Ray ? I did try that . It does work . Yeah , I hate that minute when you're .
Speaker 2You know I'd be driving along with Ray and or we would be somewhere , we'd be like in a hotel , and Ray would say you know , I'm having a hard time falling asleep . Mark , tell me your testimony .
Speaker 1Man , that is such a good line . I hate it . Simplify it more , Mark talk .
Speaker 4That's all it would take . Well , it all started when I was two , all right .
Speaker 1Heat stroke , hypothermia or nausea .
Speaker 3These are brilliant . Why are we doing this these ?
Speaker 1are brilliant I want to Heat stroke . Heat stroke , hypothermia or nausea .
Speaker 4That's when you got a hot cat .
Speaker 1Hypothermia no heat stroke .
Speaker 2Well , I don't know if I've experienced a couple of those , but I'd say heat stroke because I drink water . Would that take care of it ? Probably not .
Speaker 1You'd die .
Speaker 4Hypothermia is when you're cold , isn't it ?
Speaker 1Yeah , it's like being out in the freezing cold . I think , I'd take that one Over heat stroke . King green Nausea is Seriously anything sounds better than nausea .
Speaker 4Nausea is horrible . What if anyone's ever called their door ?
Speaker 3I knew you were going to say that .
Speaker 4This is my daughter nausea , Nausea .
Speaker 1All right Named after morning sickness .
Speaker 2You're making a grown-up on a plane Ray . Can you imagine that ? Oh ?
Speaker 4Mark Doing what ? No , no , don't say anything . It'll send us in a direction we shouldn't go . Mark will regret it .
Speaker 1We're going to talk about bloody noses ?
Speaker 2No , no , no , it's the fact that no one throws up as loud as Mark oh no , it's not as bad though Ray is when you had the nose bleed on the plane and you grabbed my Bible to try to stop the nosebleeds .
Speaker 1It's not as loud as your sneeze , though , ray , did you Nothing , what ?
Speaker 5is it ? When you grabbed his Bible , did you go Old Testament or Old Testament ? No , it was .
Speaker 4Old Testament . Obviously , there's the blood in the Old Testament . Yeah , rachel sneezes this loud too , doesn't she my daughter ? She got my gene I think she does .
Speaker 2Yeah For a woman . Is that intentional though , Ray ? No , yes , it is . No . I have no control A little bit . There's no way .
Speaker 4Not at all . If I'm alone , I sneeze loud and hear an echo . It is so loud I can't help it .
Speaker 1There's no way any human being would sneeze like that it may be from so much open air preaching .
Speaker 4My lungs might just have a little bit of spusher .
Speaker 1Open air preach . I sneeze All right . Long lasting hiccups , heartburn or itchiness . How many of these Two more Long lasting hiccups Hiccups , heartburn or itchiness ? If you had hiccups , that would be hard in the pulpit right yeah .
Speaker 4Heartburn is easy to fix with tums , although I don't like tums because it's spelt backwards , it's smell .
Speaker 1You know what ? I had tums a couple of days ago because I had heartburn . I love tums .
Speaker 4Immediate , it fixes , immediate , it really does work Sad milk .
Speaker 1Have you guys heard of those stories of people that have had hiccups for like a ?
Speaker 5decade . Yes , yes , is that really real ? I think it is . Yeah , that's insane .
Speaker 1I mean it's on YouTube , so you know it's real . I think they're faking it for sympathy
.
Speaker 2My hiccups it sounds like I have Tourette's . When I have hiccups it is really , really loud . I rarely get it , but when I get it I can't even imitate it .
Speaker 1It's like a twirl between a hiccup and a burp for you , Mark Do you guys get hiccups when you eat spicy food .
Speaker 5That happens to people .
Speaker 1Yes , that was you really yeah , definitely , really , almost every time .
Speaker 4I love the way hiccup sounds like a hiccup , same as burp sounds like a burp Hiccup .
Speaker 1Yeah , all right , last one Uncontrollable public laughter . Yeah . I'll just take that , let's move on Uncontrollable public crying , uncontrollable public sneezing .
Speaker 2Do the laughing one because laughter is contagious .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , you're like a nut . I think I would take sneezing .
Speaker 4We just go out of the room .
Speaker 2Uncontrollable Ring with his uncontrollable sneezes yeah .
Speaker 1All right , guys , here we go . Here's a comment . Talk properly , wait . First of all , I should probably address this and pause my silliness for a moment . Friends , you noticed , I'm sure , that we had a number , could you ? pause your silliness . I need to pause my silliness that we had a number of repeat episodes . The reason for that is because I was out for a while and my beloved father passed away At 113 . 113 , yeah , oldest man in America . By one account , he made it there and he was in the top five in the world . It's crazy . So it was , of course , a mixture of emotions , you know . You think 113 , oh wow , he lived a long life . That's great . He knew the Lord , but it hits you Sure , no , and I was in the room with him when he took his last breath and , god was merciful , all my siblings went home and . I was gonna do the night shift with him we knew he was gonna pass , we didn't know when and a good friend of mine longtime friend , In fact he's probably the friend I have , In fact , he is who's in my life who has known my dad the longest since 36 years , when I moved into Yerba Linda when I was 12 , Bill Daniels . And he had sent me a text a few days before with a question because of what was going on with my dad , and respond , and he sent it again with a question mark . You know when you do the question mark symbol or emoji . So I said , oh , man , I've been in the hospital , here's what's going on with my dad . And he said , oh , can I come down ? I'd love to be there with you to see your dad . And so he came and it was just him and I in the room when my dad passed , and it was God's providence . He was so comforting to me . It would have been hard to be alone , you know . So he went to be with the Lord . But we're grieving morning , but we're also rejoicing , and wonderful memories .
Speaker 4Every time I saw your daddy was smiling yeah , always yeah , and he was a great basketball player . 101 .
Speaker 1You know I want to . I need to find those pictures of you guys playing basketball .
Speaker 4Yeah , but the one that was put on the internet was altered . Someone made me jump an extra foot . I only got about three inches off the ground .
Speaker 1It did make you look like you're playing yeah , like some sort of . Yeah , so anyhow , friends , thank you all . So many of you prayed for my dad for different things throughout the years and he's in glory now . He's not sad , he's rejoicing , and so I appreciate all those prayers and continue to pray for my family as we mourn and celebrate as well .
Speaker 5All , right Side note . Yeah , I was honored to go to the funeral and you did such an amazing job , both honoring your father and honoring the Lord and your ideology . I mean , you preached a beautiful message on the gospel for friends and family that are non-believers to be able to hear it , and it was also comforting for those that were hurting , and so I was just so thankful to be your friend , so honored to be there , and it was an amazing opportunity to proclaim the glory of God and you did so well . I know your dad would be in heaven and just would be rejoicing on the words . Thank you , oscar .
Speaker 1Yeah , I was a blessing to have you , Ray and Mark it wasn't easy for you to do that . Yeah , that was a challenge for sure , on many different fronts , but God was gracious and thank you all for being there and it was a blessing . It was really comforting to have you guys all there .
Speaker 3All right , friends . My one complaint .
Speaker 1There was no baklava Intentionally , I will deprive you for the rest of your life .
Speaker 2Did you notice when Ray was trying to start the wave ? What the fear .
Speaker 4I was in the seat and no one noticed .
Speaker 1Does it take long for us to get back to ridiculousness ? All right , friends , here's a comment . This is from PCB2022Warrior . Stop it , grateful .
Speaker 5His parents are robots , yeah .
Speaker 1I'm thankful to God for bringing me to your YouTube channel and this podcast . I never used it before , but because of LT I don't know what that is I became a very heavy user Lemon tea . I love how they put it . I became a heavy user . I was revolutionized in a lot of ways . Your way of handling the truth is truly glorifying God and humbling men . God bless all of you . I wish to see you in person in this lifetime . Ah , thank you . Thank you so much . I'm so happy . We would absolutely love to meet you and , yeah , hopefully , lord willing , we will .
Speaker 5We're all much taller in person . Separate . That's right . Have you ever ?
Speaker 1ever said that to you , Ray .
Speaker 4What's that ?
Speaker 1You're much shorter than I thought when they meet you in person Every time , right .
Speaker 4Yeah , every time , every time , I've mentioned before that I've arrived at airports and I've had to pull on the pastor's jacket when I arrived Down here . This is getaway , kid . I'm waiting for Ray come for .
Speaker 1So you never told you , Ray , that you look a lot taller than they thought ?
Speaker 4Yeah , well then I was gonna say it's a lie You're mentioning about wanting to meet us . If you're ever in Southern California , come to the ministry .
Speaker 1I'm a visitor . Yeah , just reach out . We have a form , I think online . You fill it out .
Speaker 4And we're 15 minutes north of Disneyland . That's our location , so you've got another reason to come .
Speaker 5Yeah , 15 minutes north of Disneyland by helicopter , maybe .
Speaker 4No , I've timed it on a freeway .
Speaker 1yeah , yeah pretty close and we're just around the corner from the federal prison , the nuclear power plant , insane asylum , the sewage treatment .
Speaker 5We actually are Indian sane asylum .
Speaker 4Yeah , we are Living Waters Compton .
Speaker 3All right frowns . This podcast is brought to you by the Blue Book on Evangelism .
Speaker 1You forgot about that one , ray . I did too . Yeah , in the Blue Book on Evangelism you will find more than 140 questions and answers about the most important of topics . This handy primer presents the basics of witnessing the who , what when , where , why and how . Yes Ray .
Speaker 4It's gonna say that this podcast is also filmed . So when Oscar Yonze should put his hand over his mouth Totally thought about that .
Speaker 3All right frowns .
Speaker 1That's exclusive , by the way . The filming part will tell you more about that .
Speaker 2Yeah , people are yeah , thank you for saying that , because people are saying wait a minute , where why ?
Speaker 1Where is it filmed ? Yeah , but Ray doesn't think about that . All right , frowns , and don't forget the Living Waters .
Speaker 3You just don't think do you Period , the evidence , study Bible all at LivingWaterscom .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm thinking of changing it up , oscar , like doing some grunge when I say that , some grunge .
Speaker 4That's what you were . Death metal , that's a post-punk .
Speaker 1We don't need it To let me see , I'll do death metal . Living Waters no , you didn't mention it . I have to follow it . Yeah , next time .
Speaker 2I don't know if you can go as high pitch . Yeah , I can't .
Speaker 1All right , frowns . We better jump into the topic of hand . We have gone on and on and on and on . Well , you have , yeah , I have , All right . Can a Christian ? This is so stupid . Can a Christian ever sue someone , Are you ? The topic is stupid , it sounds stupid .
Speaker 4Do you mean may a Christian sue someone ?
Speaker 1Can , could . May you just fill in
whatever you want . Sue is someone , she works here .
Speaker 5Yeah , you're married to her .
Speaker 1Yeah , I'm married to her Ray thinks about suing every day . My favorite wife , yeah .
Speaker 3Cheers If I was Solomon .
Speaker 4Oh , she'd be in the top 10 . Laura hates that joke she does .
Speaker 2Yeah , it doesn't stop me from saying it , she just hates it Now .
Speaker 4that's because you don't have your timing right .
Speaker 1It doesn't . Oh yeah , it's timing From saying it .
Speaker 4How does it go ? If I was Solomon , you'd be in the top 10 . And Sue laughed . She thought it was great . And I remember I was at a youth camp and some guy said that to his wife and she came back and she got really upset Because he didn't have his timing right .
Speaker 2Do you say that in front of people though ?
Speaker 4Yeah .
Speaker 1Oh , but you understand right , sue is people . Yeah , you understand . Though , no matter how many warnings you give about this , many , many , many men around the world who are listening to this are gonna use it on their wife .
Speaker 4You're gonna be responsible for destroying marriages . Well , we do marriage counseling .
Speaker 1Yeah , all right , friends . So , guys , this is a topic that's relevant . I said stupid . It just sounds stupid , I don't know why , but anyway . But I mean , suing is a big deal . We live in a very litigious like that word , I like it Litigious society . On that note , though , as we jump into this , right N Was a lot different , at least back then , than the US is . I mean Lawsuits , it's just like it's like breathing in America .
Speaker 4Yeah , it is , it's American . Yeah , so I mean like poor lawsuits right now . You didn't sue anybody in New Zealand .
Speaker 1That's not . Yeah , you didn't have that right . No , no .
Speaker 4You wouldn't bother with it . Yeah , can't be bothered . And anyway , who wins with lawsuits ?
Speaker 2the lawyers , that's true , he's his main source of income . Don't tell people about my side hustle mark .
Speaker 5I Looked it up because you're right , we live in a very litigious age . I mean , you drive down the four or five freeway , the five freeway and I'm willing to estimate that 40% of the signs up on the freeway are attorneys Advertising their services to us . I looked it up just kind of fight for you .
Speaker 4Before I passed on because it says we'll fight for you . Yeah , I wouldn't be surprised . No , he fell around they took the eye out and put we so they're getting ready for it .
Speaker 1I thought I saw him recently must be for Jacobi and Myers . I still love that story .
Speaker 5That's all orange County stuff , though , but I looked it up because I was kind of curious and there's some funny lawsuits out there . One lady had her car repossessed because she didn't pay the bill and she sued the company for five million dollars Because they took her personal property , referring to the gas and the gas tank Valid valid right . Did she win ? She did not win . Robert Lee Brock sued himself While he was in prison Because he claimed that he had a split personality and the other personality was violating his religious rights .
Speaker 4Well , stop a legion would have a ball .
Speaker 5Seriously , oh god , keep it one more . And this one actually has a very interesting story . This is one of the more popular lawsuits that people know , thinking that it's outrageous , but actually the McDonald's the story behind , is it ?
Speaker 4really yeah .
Speaker 5So it is the lady who sued McDonald's because she burned herself with the coffee . Here's the side note to that , though there's actually an issue . She did win it . Six people always say that she won like six eight million dollars . That's not true . She won six hundred and fifty thousand dollars and some change , and it covered medical . The reason why she won the suit is because the coffee was scolding hot , it was super early in the morning , it was on an unreasonable level and it literally melted her thighs and she had tons of surgery Wow , at risk of losing the possibility of her reproductive system , whoa , and so , actually , the story behind that lawsuit is a little less outrageous . I remember reading that yeah , but the point remains . We live in a litigious age , we are influenced , inspired and , and the idea of suing to resolve an issue and to make a quick buck is all over the place .
Speaker 1Have you guys ever been sued any of you ?
Speaker 2Mm-hmm , mark , yes , have you been sued ? I was , yeah , I was coming back from the harvest crusade and I was in . I was in my car . Pulled up to the crosswalk there was a car .
Speaker 4I was a little past the cross when you lean over and gave them a hot cup of coffee .
Speaker 2I from McDonald's and this lady clipped the front of my vehicle . She was determined to have the police come . The police came and police said like there's no damage to either vehicle , go your way . And she wanted to have a police report Done , and so he filled out a plate . She filled that out and it was 364 days later no way . And I got a knock on the door Saying that I was being sued because she could no longer have relations with her husband . It was something that couldn't be proven . It was psychological , wow . And my insurance company settled at the court and gave her $50,000 . What I got dropped from my insurance company . But I remember during that , during the process , ray had told me to pray that God would bless her because she's not coming up against me , she's coming up against a child of the king , she's coming up against God himself . And what was that person ? Wow . And so I started to pray for mercy upon her and Mark real . That's all that happened . I couldn't believe it .
Speaker 5No damage real quick , how dare ?
Speaker 1you Can an insurance company do that drop you after you have a plane . Oh yeah , oh yeah , that's terrible , Mark sue them .
Speaker 4Hey , listen is this is my imagination . We're talking about a Society that sues the fact that almost every documentary you watch has so many blurred faces in it . Hmm , we watch one where people get picked up for sneaking cocaine through airports . It's really scary how many people think they can get through and they end up with 15 years in a jail in Colombia or somewhere . It's just horrible . But everything is blurred . All the airline Names on the planes are blurred , people's faces are blurred , any bag is blurred . Yeah , they're afraid of getting so .
Speaker 1I mean man liability you always hear this word , right ? Liability , liability , liability , and it's because we live in such a , you know , litigious age . Here's the thing , you know . I think , in one sense , though , video cameras have saved so many people millions of dollars , because those that are innocent can now prove it in a sense , right ? Yeah , I don't know if you guys have ever seen those videos where people actually make a living out of faking , being hit by cars , where they're like you'll see them , though they're walking , then Right , and the fact that some of these guys have cameras and they'll go we're filming you and they'll get up and walk away .
Speaker 5It's normally like really nice cars too .
Speaker 1Yeah , exactly they , they . They try to intentionally do that . Yeah , you know .
Speaker 4Lamborghini drops .
Speaker 1Yeah , but but you know it's . It's sorry about my first house , but it's . It's in keeping with with this crazy day and age in which we live . So that's the question before us , and Should Christians , or could Christians , can Christians make Christians ever sue anyone ? Before we jump into what scripture says on some of these things , I'd love to hear your opinions .
Speaker 4Well , I'd never saw a Christian Now . But the problem is if someone wrongs you that says they're a Christian but they're obviously not by the fruit that's lacking in their lives . It still looks to the world like a Christian , is so Christian , and that becomes a stunning buck for the ungodly . So it becomes a difficult situation .
Speaker 1So that that's a good point
, right ? I'd like to camp on this for a minute , because I Was just talking to someone recently about what scripture touches on regarding and not even eating with a so-called brother , right , and when we're to separate ourselves , as someone claims to be a Christian but they're living in sin . How do we apply that ? And then this is the same thing here with with what you're talking about , and that's first Corinthians 6 . We're gonna get into it . But how do you , how do you , how do you really apply that in a Culture where everybody says they're a Christian ? Right , I mean , most people you'll talk to , the majority at least will say , oh , I'm a Christian . So Does that apply to anyone who just says I'm a Christian , or would you say , no , that applies to someone who is Clearly a member of a church , who has made a clear profession of faith and would be recognized to some degree as distinctly Christian . What do you guys think On the topic ?
Speaker 5of 1 Corinthians .
Speaker 1Yeah , I mean just in general , like things like that , whether it's associating with a so-called brother or , yeah , suing someone who says they're a Christian .
Speaker 5Yeah , so associating with a so-called brother . As far as I understand the way the scriptures laid out is because there's it's an apparent conflict . It's not a conflict . The apparent conflict is someone would say well , here it says , do not eat with a so-called brother , but over here Jesus is dining with tax collectors , and so how do I distinguish the two ? As far as I understand 1 Corinthians , it's referring more to somebody in the context of church discipline , somebody who has been a member of the church , who is an active sin , who denies that sin . You treat that person differently . You don't just pretend like they're still in the fellowship of brother . That's hard , it's difficult , it's ugly . I've been through that before with a friend . But the scriptures make it clear that we shouldn't treat someone who is not pursuing Christ through repentance as though they are brother . On the other hand , a non-believer who might be like , yeah , you know , cultural Christian , yeah , I think Jesus is kind of cool , but they're clearly , have never been , a part of the fold , that's what I mean . That person I think we should pursue them . I'd have a meal with that person . I don't treat them like a brother .
Speaker 1Did you say pursue them , Pursue them , Pursue to them ? I see what you did there . You see that . You see that . Yeah , no , that's good , Oscar . Mark , have you ever sued anyone ? You've been sued . Have you ever sued anyone ?
Speaker 4No , didn't you sue that lady no .
Speaker 1Ray Oscar , you guys ever sued anyone ? Never , yeah me either .
Speaker 4We went to court , you and I once . Oh wait a minute To preach the gospel .
Speaker 1Wait , we did sue someone .
Speaker 4Well , I don't know if we sued them .
Speaker 1Well , you call that a lawsuit , that's right . We pursued them . I forgot about that With the trees . Yeah , because we were given an order by a judge to not preach the gospel at the courthouse where you , mark , and I , would go and preach every morning . And yeah , and that's when we went to court .
Speaker 4Went to court and the judge says come here . And he took us out to the back room and says you haven't got a show of whating this because a judge is it's a judge versus yeah , it's like we're going against a judge , yeah it wasn't just him . He was talking about another judge that had said that we couldn't . So they slapped on us the abortion rule . We weren't allowed to approach anyone , had to stand 14 feet away from anybody , and so that drove us to Huntington Beach .
Speaker 1Well , Scotty drove me to Huntington Beach . Well , what's crazy is I had just got done saying to you I can't believe we can do this .
Speaker 4I kept saying stop , keep saying that .
Speaker 1Yeah , and then they shut us down .
Speaker 5So I you know , thinking through lawsuits , I think that it's important to understand , maybe , the heart behind the why in regards to the scriptures , and the first thing is is in no way do the scriptures say not to use the law to defend , protect yourself or advocate for your rights , which is something that sounds like you guys did , and the thought behind that is Acts 21 and 22, . You know it talks about Paul being arrested and wrongfully accused of a crime .
Speaker 4Don't you love that ? Harry ? Just whisper to them . Do you do this to Roman citizens ?
Speaker 5Yes , that's exactly right and that's where I'm going with this . He's being whipped and accused of a crime and he what he does .
Speaker 4Yes , he whipped , or they were threatening to whip him .
Speaker 5You know I'd have to go back and write .
Speaker 1They were threatening . They were threatening okay .
Speaker 5So he leverages his legal rights as a Roman citizen when he says is it legal for you to whip a Roman citizen who hasn't even been tried ? So there he is , bringing a legal argument before the court to protect himself , right ? And so God puts in place laws , governed by men , that are intended for our good . That doesn't mean all laws are intended for good , but the will of the Lord is that there would be a system that we would depend on to protect ourselves . We see Paul doing that with Rome . But then you move to aspects of the local church , and I think that here's where , if you guys don't mind , like I wanna talk about the setting . Okay , so we live in a very different age than the early church did . In the early church it was in a small town or village in which you had a system or structure set up , but you pretty much knew everybody , and the intent here is that God would move his people to work out their differences within the confines of the local church community . I think that's an important aspect here to take into consideration . It's not just this blanket like don't go to the court system , but it's also this precedence of rely on your community , rely on your elders . Seek reconciliation amongst yourselves . Use God's authority in your life through the local church , rather than going to the authority of the law first . I think that's an important aspect of what the scriptures are telling us .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that leads us right into the passage that I think we need to read , that it applies and that's first for me it's also regarding giving a brother , profess brother , a cold shoulder .
Speaker 4The reason we do that is to bring him back to the face .
Speaker 1Exactly , that's right . It's God's means of grace to maximize the effects of bringing him back to repentance . Yeah , all right . First , corinthians 6 , 1 to 7 . Dare any of you having a matter against another go to law before the unrighteous and not before the saints ? Do you not know that the saints will judge the world ? And if the world will be judged by you , are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters ? I love how Paul builds his case . He's saying listen , you're gonna judge the world . You can't judge between a guy who ate another guy's gefelter fish or whatever . I don't know , I just can't judge . You said , like told , real Gefelter fish . What is that Anyway ? And if the world will be judged by you , are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters ? Do you not know that we will judge angels ? Now he picks it up You're gonna judge angels . How much more things that pertain to this life ? If , then , you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life , do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge ? I say this to your shame Is it so that there is not a wise man among you , not even one who will be able to judge between his brethren ? But brother goes to law against brother , and that before unbelievers , and this is where it gets heavy Now . Therefore , it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another . Why do you not rather accept wrong ? Why do you not rather let yourself be cheated ?
Speaker 2Whoa dude Mark hit us with that . Yeah , I mean be wronged , just be wronged . Vengeance's mind says the Lord , he's gonna take care of it . He's gonna take care of all your needs . Your finances are not yours , they belong to him . Your time it's not yours . You think it's okay to take that higher road . It's an admirable place to take that higher road to allow somebody to get what they want , and that means right . But if somebody has done you wrong , so be it . I mean , who cares ? Your life is not your own and , like we said earlier , the Lord is going to take care of his children . He's gonna take care of all of your needs according to his riches in Christ Jesus . Take that higher road . People are watching and if nobody is watching , god is watching . He's gonna do a work inside of you . God's your portion , he's your inheritance . Let him deal with it , amen .
Speaker 1Would you say that this is in keeping with being eternally minded to consider the impact on lost souls , like I mean he's saying this and this and that before unbelievers , like the point of that this is bringing a scandal to . I think the power of the gospel that should unite God's people . They'll know where his disciples barred love for one another .
Speaker 4Absolutely . I remember about 40 years ago , when our ministry was in its infancy in New Zealand , sue and I were in charge of stuff . I'd written a few books and some guy in South Africa read Hell's Best Kept Secret . It wasn't cool that then he was just blown away , says I want all your books . So we got a stack of books , put them in about six or eight boxes and shipped them to South Africa . We didn't understand how shipping should be double boxed and when the books arrived there they were damaged . He said every book is damaged . I said well , go to the insurance company . It was insured and he wouldn't do that . And a friend of mine said Sue him . And I said no , I'm just going to forget it . Give it to God and forget it . The next weekend our book sales were seven times the amount of normal . It was just amazing . We couldn't believe it . So yeah , commit yourself to him . Who judges righteously ? Jesus didn't avenge himself , but he committed himself to him . Who judges righteously ?
Speaker 1Yeah , and there are services that are available that help deal with disputes between Christians by Christians , and it's a form of Christian arbitration .
Speaker 4That keeps it within the body of Christ . Exactly .
Speaker 1Here's one . This is from Christianlegalssocietyorg and it kind of explains . It says yes , although civil litigation is sometimes the only way to resolve certain legal issues , the Bible teaches that Christians should first seek to settle the differences through biblically grounded mediation or arbitration . Today , this faith-based process is often referred to as Christian conciliation . As these scriptures indicate , disputes that are primarily relational or that involve simple legal issues can often be resolved with the assistance of spiritually mature believers in the local church . Disputes that involve more complex legal , relational or spiritual issues may require the assistance of a certified conciliator who can provide biblical , professional alternative dispute resolution ADR services . So there are ministries and organizations that do that . The Institute for Christian Conciliation this is from their website , aorhopeorg . The Institute for Christian Conciliation provides faith-based alternate dispute resolution or ADR services , including biblical mediation and court approved Christian arbitration .
Speaker 4Yeah , Solomon had that ministry . Cut the baby in half .
Speaker 1That's right .
Speaker 2So what would be a valid thing to sue somebody over ?
Speaker 1Okay , so that's a really good question mark , and I know it hit me too , as I said it . So this is because , look , we can oversimplify things and just say , oh no , don't sue anybody . Don't ever sue someone who says they're a Christian or whatever . But we have to be mature enough to recognize there are some really complex issues where justice , I believe , is rightly required and where a lawsuit may be appropriate
. But as far as a Christian is concerned , this is one take that a lot of people have and it would deal with Matthew 18 . So let's say a brother sends against you and then you take the Matthew 18 approach right , 15 through 17 where it says if he sends against you , you go to your brother alone . If he doesn't hear you , if he hears you , you've gained your brother . If he doesn't , you take with you one or two more . He doesn't hear them , then you bring it to the church and if he refuses , it says to even hear the church , let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector . And this is the angle that some people take and they say if someone is truly unrepentant and they've been approached and you've done the Matthew 18 approach , now they've become like an unbeliever and on that basis you would be justified then to pursue a lawsuit . So that's one angle Some have , others disagree with it . But yeah , I think there are especially if we're just talking about unbelievers . There are times when it's appropriate , but I do think we should still try to avoid it if in any way possible . What do you think , oscar ?
Speaker 5Yeah , I think the disposition here I wrote down in my notes the law of love is greater than the law of the land , and what I mean by that is and I love the way you put it , mark which is that if a brother has sinned against you , you think about again . Going back to the context , actually , read one commentator talk about how , in these small towns , the dispute would often sound like your cattle wandered into my land and ate my crops and destroyed it . Now , us here in 2024 might think that to be small , but actually that's rather large , because now you've got the fact that their financial future is at stake and that was the way you provided for your family . So that was a big issue , right ? But the law of love looks at it this way have I not sinned against God ? Do I not owe a great debt to God and does God not provide for me ? Ultimately , I think , with those two dispositions in mind , the Christian can approach one another humbly in the context of the authority of the local church and work things out to display the truth , goodness and beauty of the gospel they understand . Right Now to your point . That doesn't mean if an organization , a company , a nonbeliever has wronged you and has put you at financial risk . The legal system is there to protect you , for sure , but the disposition here , as usual , the Bible cares so much about our heart disposition before it talks about our actions , and so that is what we need to focus these verses .
Speaker 2I really like that , Oscar , because the idea is , before you ever enter into something like that , you really want to seek wisdom , counsel from people , and if you're only seeking after wisdom and counsel from people that agree with you , then your heart is wrong , the motive is wrong . I mean , pause right there . This is why God has pastors and elders and bishops and overseers inside of our lives that can speak inside of our lives . So when you seek counsel concerning this matter , if you had the heart of Lord , I only want your will , whatever it is . If you want me to go for whatever reason , if you want me to go to court , if I've been wrongly treated by a police officer and this is going to affect other believers perhaps we're afraid of my speech as being squashed then if you want me to be part of that fight , I'm willing to do it . But if you have that heart's desire of just saying look , Lord , I'm good with just walking away from this , whatever you want to do , and you're seeking wisdom from all sorts of people on different sides of the camp .
Speaker 4I think , the heart is right , the motive is good , Certain lawsuits make me rejoice and want to shout with joy . One was Gayle Blair . Do you remember her Lady in the 60s , blind ? Local city , she can't take the minister , use our tracks . They said you cannot share your faith in this park . So First Liberty took them to court and they won . And because how dare they say , they're a blind lady who's sharing a faith in a public park . You can't do that . So when that lawsuit came up , I was thrilled .
Speaker 1Yeah , two things . First , I just want to hit this real quick . That's what I mean about . There are complex issues and there are certain things that we can easily overlook and say , no , you never sue . But no , that's a worthy cause , it's for the sake of the gospel and so forth . And again , I think Oscar made a good point . Sometimes it could be financially ruinous for you and you have the right given to you and I think it should be taken . But I can't tell you guys how much my heart was doing backflips as the two of you were talking about checking our motive , our disposition , our heart , and I think oftentimes a big problem with us as believers is we just rush to decisions because we just want what we want and we don't pause to say no , I really and that's really the true test mark you hit it . Do we really say I want to hear everyone's counsel , even counsel that I don't really prefer because I want to settle on truth ? That's good , that's huge , and if we get to a place as Christians where we truly begin doing that , it'll change our lives . That's a true godly heart , a heart of selflessness that says Lord , I really want your will and , most importantly , I want to magnify love , and I want to adorn the gospel and not disparage it in any way .
Speaker 2Love bears all things . You can get through that with God's help .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's really good . Love bears , yeah , love bears . I think these couple quotes here from MacArthur are worth reading . This is again to go back to regarding Christians . He says Christians are not to take other Christians to worldly courts . When we put ourselves under the authority of the world in this way , we confess that we do not have right actions and right attitudes . Believers who go to court before unbelievers are more concerned with revenge or gain than with the unity of the body and the glory of Jesus Christ . Disputes between Christians should be settled by and among Christians . That's good . And you want to say , by settling our own disputes , we give a testimony of our resources and of our unity , harmony and humility before the world when we go to a public court , our testimony is the opposite . Wow , that's good . And then I think it's important to bear in mind and , Ray , you know , you and I have talked about this right , Like making decisions in the heat of emotion how dangerous that is . And a lot of times , you know , when we've had disputes with other believers , to whatever degree , time passes , days go by and then we look back and say what was I all worked up about ?
Speaker 4That is so true , right ? Yeah , one scripture that ministers to me , among 10 million others , is the beginning of contention is like letting water out , and so you don't wanna have contention with anyone . If you can help it as much as lights within you , be at peace with all man , because when you're in the middle of a trial , it seems , like you said , so huge it's like a mountain , but when you look at it from a distance it's a molehill .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . And it's that heart that just says Lord , I wanna love my brethren . You know , the Lord has , as of late , been just doing a paradigm shift work in my life in a huge way , and I can't even explain it . It started to happen shortly before my dad passed and it just had to do with selfishness . And I don't know what it was , but like I mean , how many times have I talked about selfishness , memorized scriptures about it , taught on it ? But for the first time it's like it was more of a focus on not so much the beauty of selflessness , which is often what I would focus on , but the ugliness of selfishness , like , seriously to a point of disgust . And in fact , after my dad passed , I was lying in bed just bawling my eyes out and Rachel was comforting me and I just said I don't know what it was . It just came even more to the forefront of my mind the ugliness
of selfishness . I call it that wicked , evil self embrace , where you wrap your arms around yourself and just want nothing but to love yourself rather than to stop and say man , I'm called to consider others more important than myself . Philippians two , not only looking out for my interests but for theirs . And look at the example of Christ . We should have his mind right . Who , being in the form of God , didn't consider it a robbery . To equal with God , made himself up no reputation taking the form of a bonds of it coming in the likeness of men and being found in appearances of man . He humbled himself to the point of obedience , to the point of death , even the death of the cross . That's our model , and I think that's the solution to these things . Amen , that's really good .
Speaker 4None of us want to bottom with our own selfish thought .
Speaker 1No , but I mean , you guys hear what I'm saying . I hear what you're saying . I heard you too . Yeah , I've had you muted this whole time . Oh yeah , I'd be muted .
Speaker 5No , that's really good easy .
Speaker 1But , Oscar , I'd love you just for a moment , even to speak to that the issue of selfishness and how destructive it is and how it even ties into this whole litigious age .
Speaker 5Man , I don't know how to say it better than you just did . I love that you pointed us back to the cross , because I think , in light of the cross , yeah , how do we approach things in a defensible way ? How do we go before , how do we go before ? You think about our disposition of like ? I need to defend myself , I need to protect myself , I need to look out for number one , but actually what I need is to be more like Christ , who had every right to defend himself , who had every right to protect himself , who was number one but counted himself least and last . Who , instead of defending himself , protected us . Who , instead of putting himself first , put us first . That should the reality that God has gone before us through his son , jesus Christ , as you're putting it easy , and it's just softening my heart right now should release us from any desire to defend our own selves , because we've already been defended on the cross .
Speaker 2Wow , I thought we were talking about shellfish . Shellfish . You know , Randy Elkhorn said , you know , God doesn't judge our finances by what we give up or what we keep . You know , it's easy to give from an abundance . And when you start self-examining and going down the route of , you know , am I selfish ? You know what areas am I selfish ? So we should get past the area of am I ? But where ? Where am I selfish ? Towards that person ? And maybe not towards that person , or in this way and not that way , Because you know , truth be told , that we are holding the smoking gun in all areas when it comes to being selfish . And I remember you sharing this with me easy , when we're on a plane up to Sacramento , and I was really ministered by what you were sharing , even more so there that I mean others are not able to get a peek into your heart . During that time , and here it is , your father had just passed and you're talking about how selfish you are and I was like , oh man , I had to take , I had examined my heart . You know , in the midst of it all , and I am attempting to move forward in different areas of not being selfish and I recognize it in my life .
Speaker 1Wow , yeah , man , seriously it gets me emotional even now . It's so ugly and it's like we we're just going a hundred miles an hour with that wicked , evil self embrace that I was talking about , this distorted self love . That is so disgusting and we don't even realize what we're doing . You know we're just cutting people off we're . You know we're interjecting what we want . We're totally like , you know , taking what's best for us . It's so antithetical to the gospel . No greater love has any man than this than to lay down his life for his friends . I've said this before , ray death is the standard . If the standard is death , what beneath it is not a given Right , but we , we , just , we just . It's all about us , my desires , my preferences , my comfort , my , and we're not pausing to say no , no , no . I'm called to consider others more important than myself . What's the remedy , ray ? How do we ?
Speaker 4Well , it's the root of every war , it's the root of every broken marriage selfishness . And the answer is just to see the cross and to crucify yourself . In the light of that cross and you know , it's no longer I that lives , but Christ in me , and it's his love that you show to others . Wow , amen .
Speaker 1And I just want to say something here too that's important to know it . I think I've mentioned it before , but this does not mean that we never approach each other to correct each other , because love does not seek its own . So if my brother is sinning , as I've said , he's harming the Lord himself and others . I love the Lord , him and others . Therefore , I'm going to approach him to repent . But now all the other attributes of agape love are gonna be their patience and kindness and not behaving rudely toward them , and so on and so forth , and so that's just key to remember , but I pray that the Lord does a revival in all of our hearts in that regard . I honestly believe every sin traces its roots back to selfishness , and if we deal with that root , it's gonna solve so many issues in our lives .
Speaker 5It's so funny you say that . I know we're going along here , but I've been reading through Genesis , studying Genesis , and I happen to be preaching on Genesis , chapter three , one through seven , this week . And , man , you just hit like the core of what I'll be talking about preaching on , which is what did Adam do ? He lacked trust in what God had planned for him , and it reminds me of this novel that I read years ago called the Human Stain , and the main character of that novel sets out to put others down to prove himself . He put others down and he saw himself as more important because he needed to show that he was , because he needed to know that he was . And Adam ultimately turns away from God because he didn't trust what God had for him . Right , and so much of our selfishness is not trusting in what God has for us . It's not trusting in what he has to say about who we are , about the human condition and what he means to do about it . We take it into our own hands when we act in selfish ways . Wow , that's good , oscar .
Speaker 1All right , friends . That wraps it up . Wow , we went into different areas , but praise God .
Speaker 4Let's see if we get sued for this problem .
Speaker 3That was a little bit , that was a little bit .
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