Of course men and women are equal . We believe that as Christians . But he said what the public sees is that women want equal pay . Well , you can't really argue against that . What the public sees is that women want to be free from certain social strictures . And it's not structures , it's the word strictures , which means a restriction on a person or activity . Well , that's certainly reasonable , but it goes way beyond that A cry for equality , a cry for opportunity , a cry for equal privilege to use their abilities unhindered and unrestricted . And the rhetoric sounds fairly sensible , but the real agenda is much more serious . Listen to it . Then he quotes he says Gloria Steinem , editor of Miss Magazine , quote he says by the year 2000, . We will , I hope , raise our children to believe in human potential , not God . Oh man , there's the root . I mean we talked about that before . Right , like it goes back to removing God from the equation .
Speaker 2Inquiring minds want to know , I want to know .
Speaker 1Don't know if you remember that old commercial Franz . You might think this is an Enquirer-type announcement , but it is not .
Speaker 2Yes , the legendary , world-famous open-air preacher and extraordinary author , ray Comfort , many , many years ago , confessed to being lukewarm . When was that ? Compared to whom , mr Stephen Sanchez ? Oh , that's true .
Speaker 1Yes , ray , this was about .
Speaker 2How did you remember ?
Speaker 3that .
Speaker 1Oh , I was reminded yeah .
Speaker 5I was reminded . I was reminded .
Speaker 1Yeah , about nine years ago , 2015 . You remember that old show called On the Box ? Yes , yeah , we had Steve Sanchez on the box . Yes , and you , Ray , confessed to being lukewarm in comparison , it was true , to Steve Sanchez . And , ladies and gentlemen , we have Steve Sanchez here today , visiting in the studio . We like to call him Sanctified Steve , and he's here with Righteous Richard .
Speaker 3Yeah , bombardus Bob .
Speaker 1Yeah , they used to be Sinful Steve and Re rebellious Richard , but they have now been transformed . Welcome guys . Great to have you with us . Can you clap for yourselves real quick ?
Speaker 2Wow , that's our audience .
Speaker 3We have a live audience . How selfish , selfish he tells them to clap and he does he set them up .
Speaker 1Anyway , great to have you guys here . But , Ray , yeah , tell us about Steve Sanchez .
Speaker 3Steve actually used to preach to people on elevators between floors . Do you still do that , Steve there's no elevators where I live .
Speaker 1Oh , that's a good excuse .
Speaker 3He goes on roller coasters . That was a letdown to hear that , but yeah he used to do that . In between floors witness to people Stay on the elevator going up and down .
Speaker 1Wait , am I remembering correctly , Was it Steve who used to say Big money , big money . Was that Steve ?
Speaker 4Yep .
Speaker 3No , no , that was the two guys . Oh , don't remind me of the two guys . Yes , the two guys in Santa Monica . Sorry , steve .
Speaker 1I applied bad memories to you . You brought back some bad memories for me , but he would do it I remember him saying it Something like that Steve said all kinds of things .
Speaker 3It was the other one that used to say that all the time .
Speaker 1Yeah , so Steve's now out in Texas . You like Texas Steve , I love Texas you do he says Barbecues and stuff like that , oh Ray .
Speaker 3Babylon B did something crazy . Yes , the California couple visit Texas . It was really funny , it made me laugh .
Speaker 1Oh , it was really funny . But you know , when you hear stuff like that , I mean they were talking basically about , yeah , Californians going to Texas and they're invited to a barbecue , and they were just like all this zen .
Speaker 3Yeah , and they said you got your neighbors over for barbecue . We've never met our neighbors .
Speaker 1They've never met their California neighbors . But yeah , they were like vegetarians and the wife was freaking out on the husband for eating meat and then the husband started looking at the roots .
Speaker 5So just last night we saw our old neighbors . They moved out to Texas a couple of years ago for ideological reasons and they moved back right onto our street . We brought them In-N-Out dinner and we go why'd you come back ? And they're like the weather and the In-N-Out .
Speaker 1I'm like I knew you'd come back , Steve , don't ? You have In-N-Out in Texas now ? You have In-N-Out in Texas now , right ?
Speaker 2Oh yeah .
Speaker 3And they also have weather there too Hot and hotter .
Speaker 2Yes , oh man Fist-sized hailstorm .
Speaker 3No , this means nothing . On a podcast , what ?
Speaker 2did he say ?
Speaker 3He's holding up his fist . Oh , fist-sized hailstorm .
Speaker 1Yes , yes , this means nothing on an audio podcast yeah , so , oscar , they moved right back .
Speaker 5They moved After a couple of years . Yeah , they moved home . They said it was just . They got landlocked , it was too flat , there was nothing to do . Eight months of not being able to go outside .
Speaker 1Welcome , Steve . That sweet dump on the guy's state man .
Speaker 3Texas is wonderful . People are very special .
Speaker 4You brought them in and out . Were they appreciative of that ? They loved it . Yeah , have you ever had somebody goes to get in and out and then somebody at home prepares bacon and avocado ? Ooh , tell me more .
Speaker 1That's like your house , Mark Dude , you guys would do something like that . Yeah , it's good stuff . Yeah , we hit microwave buttons at my house , Except for my wife . No , no , no . My daughter's cooked too , my son's too . I only hit microwave buttons . What you mean is you ?
Speaker 3Yeah me .
Speaker 1That's right . We should invent a bubble wave the what wave ? Bubble wave where you can take a microwave out and have a barbecue afterwards Battery operated .
Speaker 2That would be a good spoof for Babylon B to do . Yeah , all right , friends , time for another cool , classy comment .
Speaker 1This is from Cindy who said hi and then she put an asterisk insert raving about podcast insert . Special note about easy . She knows you , she knows me . My son tuned turned , my son turned one and our friends got him this shirt . My husband watches all of Ray's witnessing videos so he tends to reference them a lot . Thank y'all wonder where they're from for creating , speaking of Texas , for creating Christian content for us to consume . It has helped me fill my time as I transitioned to a stay-at-home mom . It's a joy to fill my life with things of the Lord throughout the day and using every avenue . Pictured Gideon , one years old . Look at this guys . Look at this little guy . What does the t-shirt say ? It's a T-shirt with Sam's image on it in the sunglasses .
Speaker 2Oh , how cool .
Speaker 1And it says are you a good person ? The word person's covered , so I thought it said are you a good dog ?
Speaker 3Can you send that to me ? That's very special . I love it .
Speaker 1Yes , I will , Ray . Remind me to send it to you later I'll send you . I'll . Could you remind easy ? I will remind mark to remind you . To remind easy , yeah , we've killed it , it's all right . Why spirit ? All right , france . Oh , by the way , thank you , cindy , absolutely adorable little gideon , she really really is . And , um , thank you so much for listening and for being blessed and all that good stuff . All right , france . Uh , another radically revolutionary resource . This podcast was brought to you by God and the Bible series . All three books right .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's special , we got them printed all at once . Large quantity bring the unit price down . So I think you get three books for about $13 or $14 .
Speaker 1Yeah , hitler God and the Bible , einstein , god and the Bible , and Beatles God and the Bible . No , the Beatles God and the Bible . Oh how dare you ? The Beatles , god and the Bible . It was just a book about a bunch of bugs .
Speaker 4It's funny . I went to a . They had the Hollywood Walk of Fame . Ringo Starr was getting his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame but at the same time there was a movie premiere with a bunch of different actors . I went over and I saw Ringo Starr getting his star there was nobody . And I went over and I saw Ringo Starr getting a star and there was like nobody there watching . Everybody else was at this red carpet event , watching all these . Seriously , because this is what happens right when you get older . You ask my kids who John Wayne is and they would say he's an airport .
Speaker 3He's an airport A pilot .
Speaker 2He was a pilot 167 movies .
Speaker 3John Wayne did no yeah .
Speaker 1Wow . Wait , I sent you a picture the other day of John Wayne in his 20s . Yeah .
Speaker 3You didn't recognize him ?
Speaker 1No , I didn't Very handsome , a sad fact of life . Those are going to be on someone's tombstone A sad fact of life . So make sure to get God in the Bible series Again . Hitler got in the Bible , einstein got in the Bible , the Beatles got in the Bible and the hole in Ray's bed got in . God in the Bible , when are you ?
Speaker 2going to write that one , you should auction it off . When are you going to write that one , ray ? Just auction the whole off .
Speaker 3Yeah , you receive a whole hole .
Speaker 1Seriously , guys , after Ray goes to be with the Lord , that bet will be worth trillions .
Speaker 2So much money and the .
Speaker 1Bible . The Bible goes in the hole .
Speaker 2Yeah , put it in your will for me , ray Hole in one Hole in one , all right , and don't forget the Living Waters mug , the Evidence Study Bible . So what's this business about me ?
Speaker 3leaving . That's why you're trying to get me to visit the Grand Canyon .
Speaker 2Could you back up a little we ?
Speaker 3can't get you in focus .
Speaker 1Let's go Ray . An Arab and a Jew go to the Grand Canyon . That'd be a good book title All right , living Waters mug Evidence Study Bible all out .
Speaker 2Living Waters dark cone .
Speaker 1That was bad . That was my best . You tried All right . Friends , today we are talking about is feminism good or harmful ? Ray , why do you love feminism ? What's that ? Why do you love feminism ? Why were you distracted ? That was a really good joke .
Speaker 3It was Mark messing around with his coffee and it reminded me how someone spilled coffee in the lobby this morning . Who ? It was Mark messing around with his coffee , and it reminded me how someone spilled coffee in the lobby this morning . Who was it Oscar ? Who could do such a thing ? It wasn't deliberate . Wait , You're trying to christen the ministry . That's silly coffee . Was that the scream ?
Speaker 1I heard in the ministry up in my office it was scream coffee I cried . I heard this big yell or something .
Speaker 5I had two cups of coffee and I put one on top of the other , I don't know why .
Speaker 3And then it flipped and just like absolutely re-comforted , all over the hallway . How wonderful . Do we have a video of that ? We do , yeah , oh , with the old video .
Speaker 2You're right .
Speaker 1So why did you have two cups of coffee ?
Speaker 5That was great , I was trying to be nice and bring somebody . I brought Tani a cup of coffee , and that's the last time I ever do something nice .
Speaker 3I saw him licking it up in the lobby .
Speaker 1Are you defiling , oh , Tanny's in here today too . Yo , what's up , Tanny ? Yeah , our new social media guru . Why are you defiling Tanny with black coffee ? See , I was trying to bless him . Yeah right , All right guys . So yeah , feminism good or harmful .
Speaker 3Ray again why do you love feminists ?
Speaker 5Show him your feminist tattoo .
Speaker 2Why are you a feminist ?
Speaker 3I agree with what they say . I don't think men and women are equal . I think women are much better than men . There's a reason that Scripture says get at the sluggard and consider her ways . Sorry , get at the sluggard . Get at the aunt you sluggard . Consider her ways and be wise . It's feminine , same with Proverbs Wisdom is called a she in Proverbs . So yeah , I think women are wonderful . They're better than men , far better than men , and I think the evolutionists got it right . When you look in the evolutionist chart , you saw those hairy guys slowly bending up . They're all men , all of them , because man is a beast and a woman's job is to tame the beast . Yeah , why don't they have a woman evolving ? No , no , because they don't think about that . They need male and female to procreate , but they didn't think about that when they did the chart that little anyway .
Speaker 3Um , the proof that a woman's job is to tame a man is to just go driving with a married couple and watch the woman's foot do tap dances . She sits in the passenger seat on the brake . That isn't there . That's what women do .
Speaker 1When men drive Backseat driver license ?
Speaker 3Yeah , so they'll never tame the beast of man , but it's always a good thing
to try .
Speaker 4Can we have a working definition , perhaps from one of you guys , on what feminism is ?
Speaker 5Yeah , that's a good place to start , because when you ask , is feminism good ? My question would be what do you mean by feminism ? Because there's a lot of different forms of feminism and , to start from the beginning , ultimately feminism started actually from a biblical perspective .
Speaker 4I'll start there and then I'll very quickly I knew you were going to do this , Oscar , because you have such a way of wanting to see a bigger picture or even play devil's advocate on somebody's . I often see you kind of defend somebody who's not in the picture . Right , I want to make sure that we properly represent the other side well , One thing that I would never accuse you of is setting up a straw man argument against someone .
Speaker 3Thanks man , so that was a compliment . I was wondering where it was going .
Speaker 5Yeah , I know , I was taken back . I don't know what to do . Can I go now ?
Speaker 1I'm waiting for Mark to say just kidding 10 years of working here , April fool .
Speaker 2Just to get that compliment .
Speaker 5So , yeah , I think let's start from the scriptures , because truly the scriptures give us the foundation for where the first feminist movement came from . First Luke the book of Luke contrasts women and men over and over again , and over and over , women come out on top . Mary is the first person that recognizes Jesus's kingship . Women are the first eyewitnesses of the resurrection , and it's not just the New Testament , it's the Old Testament too . Hagar was a slave woman and she's the first person that God uses his name when speaking to a slave woman . It's these moments in a Middle Eastern male dominated culture that ultimately the scriptures lift women up , and it's where we talk often about Imago Dei that we are all created equally . Before Christianity , the powerful , the elite , were men , were people who had more power , more privilege , more money . Christianity comes onto the scene and it says it doesn't matter your size , it doesn't matter your color , it doesn't matter your sexuality , how much money you have . You are all created equally because you represent your maker . And so the first wave feminism to get into your to answer your question First wave feminism started from this biblical foundation . It sought to find equality for women in equal with men in society . They advocated for voting rights , access to education , owning property and banking accounts . These were all good things . They were fighting from a biblical basis . Second wave feminism is where things start to go south . The good is they started to re-look at home and gender roles . The good of this was like men were now able to shop and cook and not be considered feminist right . That was the positive of second wave feminism . But the sexual revolution also came into power in second , second wave feminism , fueled by the contraceptive pill . Uh , and it ended up with , you know , abortion .
Speaker 5Third wave feminism has a lot to do with sexual liberation . So now you get lesbians , bi's , trans women , you get the phrase of intersectionality . In third wave feminism you also get sexual power , where women are encouraged to use their sexuality to gain power over men in the workplace , et cetera , et cetera . They basically take sexuality with women and , instead of looking at it as sacred , they consider it a commodity that women should use to gain power . That leads us to fourth wave feminism , which is we're in the middle of it now , and there's a lot of because we're in the middle of it , it's really hard to distinguish .
Speaker 5Interestingly enough , there's , like this turf war between fourth wave feminism and traditional feminism , but ultimately , fourth wave feminism is not just that women are created equally , but women should dominate men Again . Sex as a reef resource . Abortion , instead of being just an option , it's now celebrated We've you've talked about this where , like , there's women who brag about how many abortions they have . That's a sign of fourth wave feminism . And ultimately , fourth wave feminism is this is that the only reason why women are still unhappy is because they don't have enough freedom . They need more and more and more freedom . They try to push off monogamous relationships . Women are encouraged to have more sexual partners than ever before , and this is a bankrupt philosophy that I'm excited that we are going to get into .
Speaker 3So is it gonna be a fifth wave ?
Speaker 5Possibly .
Speaker 1Let me say this on the fourth wave , and I think it's important . But I'm glad you highlighted the progression right . And again we have to look and say were there any positive elements that came out of feminism ? Absolutely right . Again , we talked recently don't throw the baby out the bathwater type thing , but this is from a feminist , an article from a feminist named Martha Rampton . She's from Pacific University in Oregon . She said this about the fourth wave . She said some people who wish to ride this fourth wave have trouble with the word feminism , not just because of its older connotations of radicalism , but because the word feels like it is underpinned by assumptions of a gender binary and an exclusionary subtext for women .
Speaker 1Only the emerging fourth wavers speak in terms of intersectionality , whereby women's suppression can only fully be understood in the context of the marginalization of other groups and genders . Feminism is part of a larger consciousness of oppression , along with racism , ageism , classism , ableism and sexual orientation . So it's like gotten to a spot now where it has gone into other things and there's because you have to contextualize it right , you gotta take it now and say , well , in this day and age , well , we can't just talk about women , and what is a woman , after all right . So it bleeds into other things and then what we start seeing is the deterioration of society . I think it was well said . I can't remember who said it , but you know that a culture is in big trouble when women begin to go in the way of radical rebellion and begin to abandon their true call by God in terms of their roles and their identity , in terms of who God has made them . We can close the podcast now .
Speaker 4Yeah , all done . Thank you for coming .
Speaker 1So yeah , but , ray , you know the big misunderstanding when it comes to these things . You know because at the heart of it really is the essence of gender roles . Right , and who God made men , who God made women to be , but biblically speaking , there is no clash in the sense that there's no competition , because we're not unequal , we're different .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's so true . I love it when my wife says well , you dig the tree out of the garden because she can't do it . She's not strong enough because I'm a man and I'm tremendously strong , so you're strong enough , tremendously strong .
Speaker 1You haven't told a lie .
Speaker 3Tremendously strong . Yeah , get to the root of the matter . But yeah , we are different . But a truly liberated woman delights in the femininity given to her by God . That's a truly liberated woman . A woman's liberation will never find liberty as long as they're slaves to sin . That's the problem .
Speaker 5Can you say that again ?
Speaker 3That again I need to do a better job when talking to Ray you should have expected that .
Speaker 3Yeah , come on , that's me . Yeah , so that's the root of the matter . If you truly are my disciples , you'll know the truth , and the truth will make you free , and that's what a woman needs freedom from the power of sin , selfishness , greed , lust , envy , pride , all these things that inhabit the human heart . And come to the cross and you'll find complete freedom . Then , I think , any woman who comes to Christ will abandon that agenda that ends up demanding freedom to kill your own child . Wow .
Speaker 1Yeah and to think yeah , absolutely . Abortion , mark , I'm sure you would agree , is a byproduct of feminism . And you know the whole my body , my choice type thing . You don't tell me what to do .
Speaker 4Yeah , and it's quite silly when you begin to think about it , or not silly ? Sinful when you begin to think about it , because there is a distinct order that God has set up inside of Scripture . There's a creative order as well , that we see in Genesis that God has set up inside of scripture . There's a creative order as well , that we see in Genesis that God has set up . God is not this cosmic killjoy who wants to suck all the fun out of our lives , right ? He has designed women and men to cohabitate together to bring him glory . Ephesians 5, .
Speaker 4I'll steal one of you guys' thunders . I know one of you wanted to say it Wives , submit to your own husbands as to the Lord , for the husband is the head of the wife , even as Christ is the head of the church , his body , and is himself its savior . Now , as the church submits to Christ , so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands . Notice that the wives submit to the husband , but really the husbands submit to the wives as well . There's a submission that we do to one another , with Christ being the head of it all . Yeah , so when you have a woman who says my body , my choice , both of those words have been hijacked into the conversation because it's not her body and it's not her choice . A choice is salad over steak . That's a bad choice . It's still a choice that somebody can make .
Speaker 1Yeah , that's good , mark , and yeah , and it's important to note too . You cited Ephesians 5 , beginning in verse 22 . In verse 21 , paul says submitting to one another in the fear of God . And there is that recognition that there is a general submission to each other as believers who are part of the body of Christ . Because , I mean , you know , paul put it well in Scripture where he talked about how , in Galatians 3.28 , there is neither Jew nor Greek , there's neither slave nor free , there's neither male nor female , for you are all one in Christ Jesus . Oscar , this has been twisted in every way imaginable , but I'd love you to touch on that . The fact that man , if anything , Christianity and you've mentioned it before has elevated women , I mean this verse here was so foreign to that first century mindset neither male nor female right . And the way that this has been twisted , of course , is to try to obliterate the distinction . This is talking about our oneness in the Lord and our significance in the sight of God .
Speaker 5Yeah , and you think about the reality that Christianity excelled in a Roman culture where men were predominant , where , like I mean , the typical situation for a wealthy man in Rome was , not only was he married , but it was totally okay , reasonable and even expected for him to engage with prostitutes , to have male sex slaves , et cetera , et cetera , et cetera , and women were diminished and put down . There's actually , there's , there's a . We have letters from Roman centurion soldiers writing home to his wife , and in the the letter is mostly , you know , affectionate I miss you , can't wait to be home . She's pregnant and , and almost nonchalantly , at the end of the letter he says something to the effect of by the way , if it's a boy , great , and if it's born a female , go ahead and discard it . And that was just common . Like if you were born a female in Rome , you're either discarded to a burning piling heap of garbage or you were sold into slavery or prostitution .
And then Christianity Tom Holland actually makes this point . Who's an agnostic historian , renowned historian . Christianity comes onto the scene and raises women up to be equal in dignity and respect and for protection , and that's key . I actually read this really interesting book by a left wing , formally self-declared feminist woman named Louise Perry . The book's called the Case Against the Sexual Revolution and she basically pulls back on her feminism cause . She was fourth wave feminist . All the way she pulls back and she recognizes that biblical view of marriage and women is the safest thing for women , that the sexual revolution ultimately failed women .
Speaker 3Is she speaking as ?
Speaker 5a Christian ? Now ? She is not a Christian , no . And so in the book she actually opens with this comparison between Marilyn Monroe and Hugh Hefner . She points out that both of them were born in the same year . Both of them lived as icons of the sexual revolution . But look at the outcome of both of their lives . Marilyn Monroe is known for her beauty , Hugh Hefner known for his success . Marilyn Monroe died at the young age of 36 . Hugh Hefner , known for his success . Marilyn Monroe died at the young age of 36 . Hugh Hefner in his nineties .
Speaker 5Marilyn Monroe , throughout her life suffered from domestic abuse , substance abuse , depression . She ended up taking her own life . That was the result of the sexual revolution . Hugh Hefner , financial success , esteemed by culture , power , and at the end of his life here's what's interesting she points out that the first Playboy magazine apparently had pictures of Marilyn Monroe on it . That was like how he got his success . He actually didn't pay her for it . He bought those pictures from somebody . She never made a penny and she always suffered from that Like . It was like something that tormented her . They never met because she saw him as like an antagonist . And yet at the end of Hugh Hefner's life he asked to be buried next to Marilyn Monroe as like this , like conquering you know sexual revolution guy . And so the point that Louise Perry makes in this book , as a female former feminist , is the feminist sexual revolution has failed women and has given more power to abusive men , which is where rape culture and et cetera , et cetera all comes into play .
Speaker 5And she at the end of the book . Real quick . At the end of the book she has the last chapter called listen to your mother , or something like that , in which she basically argues for a biblical ethic of sexuality in marriage .
Speaker 1Wow , Now , ray , you asked a very , I think , pertinent question , and there's a reason you asked it . She became a Christian , right , because the assumption is , only a Christian would think that way . And yet , ray , you've pointed this out a lot , where you'll talk about how the world ends up discovering what scripture had already said , you know , and you , you , I think , is that in scientific facts , in the bible , it probably is yeah yeah , you don't remember scientific facts and what the bible ?
Speaker 1yeah , but right , but right , because , duh , the world is discovering what god has already said is the case .
Speaker 3I wish they'd hurry up and discover it Totally , because they're still making a mess out of it . You know , you watch these women weightlifters that probably go to the Olympics and you think it's not right for a woman to have huge muscles like that . It's possible , I mean , it's possible for a dog to walk on its hind legs , but you think this isn't right .
Speaker 2It's not the way God created a dog to walk .
Speaker 3Oh , that's good . And so God's given us male and female . The male is to be the provider and the female is to look after the children . That's the godly , godly thing the world just can't esteem .
Speaker 2Yeah .
Speaker 1Mark , you know , when Scripture talks about what's pleasing in the sight of God or precious in the sight of God , one of the things that is mentioned is that a woman with a gentle and quiet spirit and that's not so much a woman's demeanor or , you know , some women can be more outward and louder , which is great , but it's that spirit that is even seen underneath a personality that may be in a sense loud , but feminism , I think , manifests itself in a harsh spirit in women Like , for example , I think of that woman in the and what is it in the movie that we made where she said you bring a baby here and I'll kill it ? Right now I still can't believe that .
Speaker 3It's a fourth wave yeah , that's the fifth , she's a head Damn .
Speaker 4Yeah , yeah , I still can't believe it . We still haven't released that full video of that nurse on the pier , and a nurse to boot . A nurse to boot . Yeah , bring a baby before me right now and I'll kill it .
Speaker 4I mean , what would possess somebody to make such a statement like that ? You know , the Lord has designed a woman to be nurturing and when you see the exact opposite take place , it's not just demonic but it's welcoming the wrath of God and the judgment of God to come . Titus 2 , 4-5 , where it instructs older women to teach younger women . It says , to love their husbands and children , to be self-controlled and pure , working at home , kind and submissive to their own husbands , that the word of God may not be reviled . God has a family structure .
Speaker 4I had taught a message recently and I had said guys , I have a statement to make and then I have a bit of a confession . The statement , first of all , is I teach evangelism and apologetics for a living . That's what I do for a job . I've been to about 50 countries , 49 states , but it wasn't me that led my five kids to the Lord , it was my wife . My wife's continual instruction and answering their questions and wiping the tears and dealing with the issues that they're going to be going through and , one by one , my wife was faithful to lead and to instruct and to answer and to be there .
Speaker 4That is the design of a mother and of a wife . That is God's order and it's not a destructive order , it's a beautiful order . And then they were all baptized on the same day at our church there in Kindred . Wow . So if my wife would have thrown up her hands and threw the towel into the ring and said get me out of here , I don't want to have any part of this , I just think where would my kids be to this day ? You know , I have to go to work , I have to provide , and my wife has to provide as well , but she provides in a different way in a different fashion and on a different level .
Speaker 1I love that , Mark .
Speaker 4Wow .
Speaker 1So beautiful and it's poetic . You know , and I love it when this issue is addressed unapologetically . You know , because of how culture has shifted in such a dark direction , I think so often there's so much qualification and so much hemming and hawing , but to be able to share what you just shared , mark , without any apology , and to do it in such a way where it magnifies the beauty of God's design , because God has done this , so we shouldn't be ashamed in the face of the public . In fact , I think the secular public is refreshed when they hear Christians speak unapologetically , yet winsomely , right and lovingly to issues like this .
Speaker 4you know , you see how far off base we get as well by just opening the door for someone . Have you ever , have you guys held open a door at a store and then you have a woman come on and say I can get my own door ? Oh no . I mean how crazy is that .
Speaker 1When ? That's because I've heard stories of women doing stuff like that .
Speaker 4I've seen guys just shut the door behind you and then say all right , fine , open the door , I'll hold it yeah
I .
Speaker 1I love that chivalry that that has been diminished in our day and age . I still do it . I don't care , I'll do it . I'll stand up if there are women in a room and there's no seats yeah , I think it's wonderful .
Speaker 3I think tipping the hat is a wonderful thing you see in old movies where a man wear a hat . I wish that would come back . We just tip the hat when he meets a woman yeah , or men would stand , you know , when a woman walking years ago , um , before the feminist thing arose , I ran ahead of a woman to open a door for her and actually bumped her as I ran past her and pushed the door and she went through it , came back and hit her in the face . I'm not kidding .
Speaker 1That's probably what launched women not wanting doors to be open anymore . It all started with you , Ray . It all started with you .
Speaker 3Why would women want to be in the workplace ? Because men die younger than women . Because they're in the stress of a workplace , driving freeways , get back from work earning money and they die younger .
Speaker 1Yeah , and don't write letters , friends . Ray's not saying women cannot work . I think they should .
Speaker 3Yeah , gotta work . Support the man . I love the way the lions Lions .
Speaker 2You knew that was coming , I just know you Comfort .
Speaker 3I just think lions are just neat . They just sit in line around and yawning and then suddenly they go , the woman goes , whoa , and they go out and get the food and bring it back to them . And that's how it should be . How do they do it ?
Speaker 1This is the end of our podcast , forever , alright , listen .
Speaker 5Amen , if I can say real quick , because this is something else that Louise Perry and I'm going to mess up the numbers , but I specifically remember somewhere in the middle of the book she talks about men and women in the workplace and she certainly advocates for the potential of women to work as we . We would say the same thing . Some of our wives work you know on this podcast , they have full time . To some of my wife , some of my wife works , my wife has a full time job and so , yeah , by no means are we saying that's not not the thing . But what no means ? Are we saying that's not the thing ? But what Louise points out is she says that in situations where women are predominantly the breadwinners and men become stay at home , she shows an increased likelihood of divorce and depression and an increased likelihood of fatherlessness at the end of the result of that . And so again , this is a non-Christian advocating for a traditional marriage in the sense of even a workplace environment .
Speaker 1Yeah , and look , let me say , speaking of unapologetically , I will unapologetically say that what Mark cited from Titus 3 , I think is the norm , in that when a man and a woman decide to have children , unless it is preventable , the woman should be at home taking care of the children . That is a part of her nurturing role . Look , there are times when circumstances make that impossible , for whatever reason , Totally understood . But a woman , that should be the primary role of a mother to nurture her children . Now , the children grow up and they go to school or whatever . A woman works , that's fine . Or the kids , everything's done . But yeah , that is God's design .
Speaker 3When I was a kid , the woman would take on the man's name with pride in marriage . That seems to have got lost . And it's not unusual now to see a man pushing a stroller around the block because he's the stroller pusher , and I'm not saying that's wrong . I think it's good to push a stroller because it starts on the side I was going to say there you go again , Ray . If no one's pushing it . So here's the qualification I am the stat home dad . Yeah , I cook all the meals during the week .
Speaker 1What a nice man . Yeah , I just can't help it . All these condemned men now who've pushed strollers .
Speaker 3It's okay , man , like I said , pushing strollers is good , because you don't want the stroller left on the sidewalk . I was about to say some guy's going to be listening to this podcast pushing a stroller .
Speaker 5He's going to leave the stroller there in the middle of the street and go home . Where's the baby ? Yeah ?
Speaker 1It's Ray Comfort's fault Edit Ray out of this episode . Completely Alright , friends . So Al Mo Sorry We've had him on this podcast . He's going to ask to be removed . Dr Al Moeller , he said this . He said For too long . Those who hold to traditional understanding of manhood and womanhood , deeply rooted in both scripture and tradition , have allowed themselves to be pushed into a defensive . I love the fact that again now is a good time to reconsider the issues basic to this debate and to reassert the arguments for biblical manhood and womanhood . I love the fact that again , he's using biblical with womanhood and manhood . You know , um , because at the end of the day , that's what it comes down to . Yeah , you know what does scripture say ? Our opinions can . Did ray die ?
Speaker 2what if he did ? I didn't even realize .
Speaker 5He disappeared from the table what if he did and you just ?
Speaker 2said that .
Speaker 3When you tried to say Al Mohler , I was drinking and I choked on my water because so I had to run out , by the way , when you died .
Speaker 5that's going to be his response .
Speaker 2Did Ray die .
Speaker 1Not totally surprised . Check the insurance , True ? Okay , so let me go on with what Al Mohler said . He said the most basic question in this controversy comes down to this has God created human beings as male and female , with a revealed intention for how we are to relate to each other ? The secular world is now deeply committed to confusion on these matters . Denying the creator . The secular worldview understands gender to be nothing more than the accidental byproduct of blind evolutionary processes . Ray , I love that he stated that , because really , at the end of the day , that's what it is . It's just , ah , blind . But yet they never paused to think of the miracle in male and female , in all species .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's just crazy . If you throw out Genesis , everything else just crumbles . God made man in his own image and he made them male and female in all species . Yeah , it's just crazy . If you throw out Genesis , everything else just crumbles . God made man in his own image and he made them male and female and told them to have sex . He commanded them to be fruitful and multiply . And when you throw it out , you've got big explosion . You've got some sort of amoeba or whatever it was just growing up into a male that bends over , gets hairy , straightens up and goes to work . And there's no female . They don't even think about it . Where is the female coming and when did the female evolve ? Why did the female evolve ? Why did she evolve differently than the male ? Where's the doesn't fit ? Oh , we don't get into that . Evolution is craziness . On steroids I can be quoted .
Let me make a plea towards someone who has been persuaded by the feminist movement , because one of the things that I think fourth wave feminism would say is the only reason why feminism hasn't worked is because we still we , as in women would say they still need more freedom . And it's really interesting because , if you look at it , they're almost saying like , look how bad men behave . They have multiple sexual partners , et cetera , et cetera . What we need to do is behave terribly like men . I heard someone say something to the effect . Like you know , the call towards women now is to have sex like your brothers and work like your father . That's where true freedom and that's where true happiness is gonna come from , which comes to the point of freedom . Like what is freedom ?
Speaker 5I think we may have talked about this on the podcast years ago , but if you think about that , especially here in America , we talk about freedom all the time . We want freedom , we advocate for freedom , we die for freedom . Give me freedom , give me death , give me freedom , give me death . Right , we like go , we get out of our house for free tacos , we want everything , freedom , we're super into right , but we don't often define what freedom is and I think what the myth in the West is , that freedom is doing whatever you want to do . But a biblical definition of freedom is doing what you were meant to do . That's good , right . Doing whatever you want to do . This idea thinks that we're somehow going to find happiness . But think about it .
Speaker 5True freedom comes from restraint , right , like if I ate whatever I wanted to . I used to have a family member that struggled with obesity and one day he came to me sobbing because he couldn't take his 15 year old brother to Disneyland and get on a single ride because he was too big for all of them . His freedom led to a kind of restraint . It restricted him . Right , we restrict ourselves from certain foods to have more freedom . Marriage is a restriction , right , we are monogamous , yet it leads to more freedom and joy , and that is absolutely true as it pertains to human nature . Our true freedom comes not from doing whatever we want to do , but doing what we were meant to do , which is love God and love neighbor as our son .
Speaker 3And that brings us back to Tootle . Remember that story I told you Tootle ? Yeah , I touched on it a while ago . It's this kid's story , very famous . It's about a little train that wanted to be free from the confines of the track . Oh yeah , coming down the hill , and every day I'd look at the little lambs leaping about . I want to be free . So he leapt , and all he got was disaster . Because a train was not designed to find freedom leaping about like a lamb , but find freedom within the confines of the tracks .
Speaker 3And that's exactly Jesus said take my yoke upon you . Take my yoke upon you and learn of me , and you find rest to your souls .
Speaker 3We find complete freedom in the confines of the tracks of God's perfect will and the whole thing can be looked at Law produces liberty . In the book of James I think it is it speaks of the perfect law of liberty . It's James , I'm sure . The law produces liberty and you can see this in football . If you've got a lawful game of football where there's no transgressions , there's absolute freedom , the game flows .
Speaker 3If people decide they don't want to obey the laws of that game , it's going to be transgression , stop penalty , Transgression , stop penalty . And that's exactly what's happened with humanity . They've thrown off God's law because they want liberty , and all they've got is disaster . That's really good .
Speaker 1Oscar , we have a picture of you from the days when you ate whatever you wanted to eat .
Speaker 3Oh , and we still . I haven't seen that picture . I can't even believe that was you Good work , oscar .
Speaker 4You know John MacArthur . In his commentary on Romans , chapter one , he talks about there being three different waves of God's judgment . And the third wave he talks about how man has a reprobate mind and that word reprobate gives itself over to the word non-functioning . That is a non-functioning mind where you're engaged inside of a conversation with someone and you think you're being very reasonable and congenial in the conversation and they've just checked out where you think they're not making any sense whatsoever in what they're talking about . And he talks about . He says this , he says God has given our society over to a mind .
Speaker 4That doesn't work . There's a type of insanity . That's what we're seeing when males call themselves females , when females call themselves males , and as you know , it's much worse . Our society tells us you may change your gender to whatever you want to be right , there's hundreds of genders . Now , if a biological male wants to identify as a female , he can do that . And if a female wants to identify as a toaster oven , well then she can do that , and that nobody has any right to be able to speak into that and say that this is wrong . I mean , think we are the outcasts to say to someone who wants to identify as a cat , you're off your rocker . You cannot do that . That's the non-functioning reprobate mind and we have to reject it at all cost , no matter the cost , because God , who has already come up with the definitions for words , has defined the roles of both man and woman .
Speaker 1Amen , and we talked about this recently . When you talk to people on the streets right , we mentioned the other day that , oh , I don't want to judge someone who may have murdered someone else , right ? And now people manifest this sort of thing in that they're hesitant to say no , a person can't identify as a toaster oven or as a cat . Well , what insanity . If you told generations past there was going to come a time when a man can simply say he's a woman and then go into professional sports and compete against other women , I mean , they would have just immediately wrote you off as crazy and insane . They wouldn't have even given you the legitimacy of a conversation . Here we are . That is a natural outworking of reprobation . That's where we end up and I'm telling you guys , it's going to get crazier . It has to , because you remove God from the equation . It's only going to get crazier . Now we've got the furries . Now we've got people marrying themselves .
Speaker 3I mean , this is like and it's going to keep going . If you meet someone who thinks they're a toaster , I'm going to pull their plug out .
Speaker 1Stick bread in their mouth right away .
Speaker 5They're just looking for their hot pocket .
Speaker 1But speaking , they're just looking for their hot pocket , yeah , but you know , speaking of macarthur , I think this is this is key to our whole discussion here on feminism and and really its true roots . Uh , he's talking about how , uh , you know , he says the troops have been sent out from the fortress called the feminist agenda to spread their , spread their philosophy throughout society . And then he goes on from there and he talks about how , basically , it's tearing down the building blocks of marriage and family and everything goes into shambles . And he says much of this can be laid at the feet of the feminist movement because it has overturned the thinking of women so dramatically that they have abandoned their God-intended role and , consequently , the family has felt the consequences . Unthinking believers , untaught Christians and man , that's so key , unthinking and untaught . That's where you end up . You don't intake truth , you end up there . He says unthinking believers , untaught Christians , have become prey to the ideology of the feminists and , frankly , most of us probably have no real idea of what the feminist agenda is at its core . It is frightening and it is fatal , and I love now here how he gives a picture of what society feminist agenda is at its core . It is frightening and it is fatal . And I love , now here , how he gives a picture of what society sees .
Speaker 1He says what the public sees is that women , because you hear feminism , you hear equality , right , and Oscar , you did great highlighting all that . So you think what's wrong with that ? Of course men and women are equal . We believe that as Christians . But he said what the public sees is that women want equal pay . Well , you can't really argue against that . What the public sees is that women want to be free from certain social strictures , and it's not structures , it's the word strictures , which means a restriction on a person or activity . Well , that's certainly reasonable , but it goes way beyond that A cry for equality , a cry for opportunity , a cry for equal privilege to use their abilities unhindered and unrestricted . And the rhetoric sounds fairly sensible , but the real agenda is much more serious . Listen to it . Then he quotes . He says Gloria Steinem , editor of Miss Magazine .
Speaker 1Quote he says by the year 2000, . We will , I hope , raise our children to believe in human potential , not God . Oh man , there's the root . I mean , we talked about that before , right , like it goes back to removing God from the equation , it says . Radical feminist leader Sheila Cornyn says this , since marriage constitutes slavery for women . It is clear that the woman's movement must concentrate on attacking this institution . Man , I get the chills Like the agenda isn't even hidden right Attacking this institution . Man , I get the chills Like the agenda isn't even hidden right Attacking this institution . Freedom for women cannot be won without the abolition of marriage . And then MacArthur says , as far back as 1971 , there was produced by these feminists , a document called the Declaration of Feminism . It says this quote the end of the institution of marriage is a necessary condition for the liberation of women . Guys , this is 1971 . Here we are . The agenda was in place long ago and they continue to persist in putting in different mechanisms that would make it happen . And it has happened .
Speaker 5Yeah , faith . Fifth wave feminism , which is exactly what you just ended on there encourages women to not have children , because having children is oppressive and detrimental to your job , and it encourages women to not get married because marriage is a way of subordination and submission , and et cetera , et cetera , et cetera . Here's the thing , though . I'm talking about feminism and where culture is going . Here's the thing , though . I'm talking about feminism and where culture is going . I can personally easily slip into frustration , discouragement and start to sound like political rhetoric , and the thing that I have to remember is that the scriptures call me to preach victoriously . I am not called to engage in a culture war and say you guys are destroying society , et cetera , et cetera . The church has been here before . We talked about it earlier with Rome . Rome was not a Christian nation , and yet Christianity exploded , and that's the thing is that we are going out there not having a culture war . Rather , we are heralders of a victorious King .
Speaker 5He promises that his church will prevail , and so when we step into culture and we have conversations , we're not fighting for our nation . We are making a declaration that Christ has already won , and then we're pleading with people to participate in his coming kingdom by repenting of their sin , turning from the thing that's enslaving them and turning them to true freedom , which can only be found in Christ . I think that our disposition , when we look at it from a biblical perspective , sounds a lot less like oh man , you're ruining everything and Christ is coming , guys , christ is coming .
Speaker 1Amen , yeah , and I think a big key to that , oscar , and the answer is the gospel . And when we have the hope of the gospel , we don't have to be these cantankerous , angry , constantly negative people . We speak truth with boldness , unapologetically , we call things what they are , but we come in with the hope of the gospel . But , mark , untaught and unthinking Christians that's the real danger .
Speaker 4Yeah , I think it was CS Lewis who said everyone's a theologian . Most people are just bad theologians because they don't study . We need to give ourselves over to continually study and sitting and meditating and then having the outflow right . Good theology is going to lead to good doxology . It's going to lead to a carrying out an action-based faith . So most people today yeah , they will begin to read . It's not the fact that they don't read . We are a reading society . We just want to read the wrong things . So we go from reading about Fabio inside these romantic novels of the late 80s and early 90s to I just want to read on an Instagram meme and I get a lot of my theology and my news from Instagram memes . Well , we just need to kind of move that over from this microchasm learning on Instagram to just open up the Word of God , because you can read any chapter of the Bible in about two to three minutes . Two to three minutes , any chapter in the Bible , unless it's Psalm 119 .
Speaker 4117 would be two seconds .
Speaker 1Yeah , amen . Well , put Mark , and look , friends , as we wrap up here again , we just want to remind all of you listening that you hear what we've said right Women are equal , created in the image of God . The modern feminism movement has gone beyond that , like MacArthur shared . It's not about equal abilities and equal opportunities and things of that sort . It's no , we want to destroy the family , we want to dominate men . We want to . Now , in this fourth wave that we've talked about , want to drift into this entirely new type of insanity where genders are just blown up altogether or we could be whatever we want to be . So keep that in mind .
Speaker 1Scripture elevates women . Christ elevated women . We've highlighted some of those passages already Galatians 3.28 , ephesians 5 , 21, . 1 Peter 3 , 7 . Women are called fellow heirs , heirs together of the grace of life , with men . Talking about how men are to treat their wives Ephesians 5, . Husbands are called to love their wives as Christ loved the church , the greatest power this planet has ever known . He laid his life down . We're called to love our wives , women , as our own bodies , right , so remember that . And there's nothing more beautiful than for someone to function as they're supposed to function . A bird swimming doesn't work . A fish right that's trying to graze grass doesn't work . God designed us for certain purposes . Function in them beautifully , for certain purposes function in them beautifully , unapologetically and for the glory of God .
Speaker 1There , you have it there , it is there it is . Thanks for joining us , friends , don't forget . God in the Bible series all three books and Living Waters Mug and the Eminence Study Bible all at livingwaterscom Podcast at livingwaterscom with your thoughts and suggestions . Remember to like this podcast , share it with others , Tell them friends . All kinds of good things .
Speaker 2Thank you for joining us .
Speaker 1We'll see you here next time on the Living .
Speaker 2Waters Podcast , nothing came .
Speaker 3Podcast . Thank you Easy . Nothing came , that podcast . Thank you .