The Beauty of Music and Math

Oscar Navarro 1:04

And so a quiet life is discipling , it is engaging , it is participating , it is loving and caring to communicate and to disciple , and to lead and to direct , but it doesn't invite us into not our business . I would say , things outside of that immediate category is not our business . And as soon as we step into the not our business of the world , you know what it does . It just leads us to anxiousness and uncertainty because we're not created to bear the burdens of celebrities and politicians . You know what I mean . God did not create the world for us to be all knowing . The way our phones make us almost all knowing of media and information and all of that right now news cycle , it just builds up anxiety in our lives rather than unplugging and focusing a quiet life on the three things that are around me my family , my church and my neighbors .

Mark Spence 2:00

I wrote that down .

Emeal Zwayne 2:07

In the grip of my father's grace .

Ray Comfort 2:09

Oh no , no , stop everything .

Oscar Navarro 2:10

Gazing at my father's face . Stop everything .

Ray Comfort 2:13

That is just terrible . In the sweetness of his embrace no .

Oscar Navarro 2:18

What is this nonsense ?

Ray Comfort 2:19

Living in sync With my father's pace . Sitting in the grip of my Nausea . Oh , oh Ray .

Emeal Zwayne 2:28

Okay .

Ray Comfort 2:29

That is the Easy . Wrote that song and both my Daughter , rachel , who he this goes back about 20 , 25 years and we said no , that is an awful song . Please never sing it again and you won't stop .

Emeal Zwayne 2:40

I haven't heard it for a while . I know Saturday . Well , yeah , it came up . I think Rachel said it was going through her mind .

Ray Comfort 2:46

Yeah , she was feeling sick , poor woman .

Emeal Zwayne 2:48

Only brilliant songs go through people's minds , right ? I was very deeply offended Good , I thought I remember when I came up with that tune . I'm like Ray's going to love this . No , I didn't you should .

Ray Comfort 3:00

No , God's endued me with just a little discernment . That's where it's at .

Mark Spence 3:04

I don't remember which child of mine said it , but they said boy Easy actually has a really good voice .

Emeal Zwayne 3:09

Your best child . I didn't know that . Your wisest child .

Ray Comfort 3:12

That's the Jeff one , isn't it ? Yeah , I don't know which one it was . Easy actually is very talented musically . But that one is terrible .

Oscar Navarro 3:19

You almost said abomination , yes .

Emeal Zwayne 3:22

Okay , this is a song I wrote for Rachel .

Ray Comfort 3:25

That's nice .

Emeal Zwayne 3:35

It's a top 10 today . We're playing all right , here goes because there's so much we've been through , but there's nothing I would not do . If only I can have just just one more moment with you one more in your mind .

Oscar Navarro 3:49

Do you think like that's a banger ?

Mark Spence 3:52

That's like . Billboard Top 100 .

Ray Comfort 3:55

Easy . You were singing that with your eyes closed . I thought it would be great if the three of us just left the studio .

Emeal Zwayne 4:02

Oscar , there are some things that are just objectively good .

Ray Comfort 4:07

That wasn't one of them . That's one of them .

Emeal Zwayne 4:11

You guys ever make up songs for your family ?

Mark Spence 4:12

Yeah , I do . I did this morning for Laura . I mean , I put together a little verse for her to think through , really Like a song .

Emeal Zwayne 4:20

Yeah .

Mark Spence 4:20

I'm not going to do it , but yeah , it was a little quick lyrics .

Oscar Navarro 4:24

I sing to my kids and my wife all the time .

Ray Comfort 4:26

I don't know that one , but I don't think it's good .

Emeal Zwayne 4:29

Spontaneous yeah , I sing to my dogs , do you ?

Ray Comfort 4:34

No , you think I'm crazy .

Emeal Zwayne 4:37

Lucy , lucy , I love you Lucy . Yeah , you know it's crazy man Singing is , yes , it is yes , I know what you're saying .

Ray Comfort 4:46

It's crazy , but it has laws involved in music . There's music that's good and there's music that's bad .

Emeal Zwayne 4:53

No , but it's amazing how music can just fully impact your mood too .

Ray Comfort 5:00

Yes , you know .

Emeal Zwayne 5:01

Yeah , yeah , like Ray , you always talk about that , especially with like Beatles songs . Nostalgia just takes you back , but it's good nostalgia .

Ray Comfort 5:09

It makes me feel so good instantly . I'm not talking about the drug-soaked songs they got into later in the stage , but the early ones . Instant , just great memories come flooding back . I just love it .

Emeal Zwayne 5:21

Because it's associated with things you were doing as a kid .

Ray Comfort 5:23

Yeah , yeah , yeah , I was a little brat .

Oscar Navarro 5:29

I was reading a book recently that was somebody who got his doctorate . It was like their dissertation , and the point that they made in it is that both mathematics and music is an objective witness to the glory of God . And so he pointed out that , like in advanced mathematics , people who are theorizing mathematicians , that they don't come up with the laws , but rather they discover them , as though they were , like they're ready to be discovered , like the hand of God is holding all mathematics together . And then he associated that with music and that music is rooted in mathematics and how , ultimately , music and math like sing to the presence and the glory of God . It was really fascinating .

Ray Comfort 6:11

Has anyone ever combined the two ? Go easy .

Emeal Zwayne 6:15

One , two , three , four , five , six , seven , eight , nine , ten , eleven , twelve times forty divided by nine , I don't know , Music and math . Yeah , it is , it's mathematical , it's , you know , especially like two forms of music that I don't listen to , actually , but that I really do love when I do classical . And what do you call the Frank Sinatra kind of music ? Does it have a ?

Ray Comfort 6:43

Frank Sinatra music . Frank Sinatra yeah , I know what you're saying yes . There's a cabaret . Is it cabaret ? Yeah , I know what you're saying . Yes , there's a cabaret . Is it a cabaret ?

Emeal Zwayne 6:50

Yeah , I don't know , but every time it comes on like I realize how so lyrically impoverished today's music is . Seriously , I mean even like I did it my way , I was going to say that Right yeah , not as one who bows the knee .

Ray Comfort 7:08

it says in the middle of that .

Emeal Zwayne 7:10

Did you realize that ? Yeah , is that crooner , yeah , yeah , so again , not that I , you know , endorse the . The lyrics in that song but but I'm saying like , yeah , just the , even the , the lyrical or the rhyme scheme in there , it's , it's quality we could change it to a drive on the highway . But then you , you know they just . But today it's just stupidity . And even with rap . I don't know you guys don't listen to rap , but I hear some .

Ray Comfort 7:35

No , we do listen to rap . You have no choice . Not only that , but you pull up at some stop sign . There's a guy with a rap that makes your whole car shake .

Emeal Zwayne 7:43

That's true , I know , but now , even nowadays , it's not just that like lyrically , things have degenerated , but the way they sing , the voice , the yeah , I'll do this , that and yeah , more and yeah , man .

Ray Comfort 8:01

Hey , you're improving easy . You like that , Mark ?

Emeal Zwayne 8:04

That was better than normal , that was great . But seriously , man , yeah , yeah , just the you know , the evidence that we're degenerating .

Ray Comfort 8:12

In every way .

Emeal Zwayne 8:13

Oscar , you're thinking deeply with your fingers upon your lips .

Oscar Navarro 8:15

I was thinking about Yo-Yo Ma's cello suite one in G minor . It's like one of the most beautiful pieces of music you can ever listen to . If you haven't heard it , you can go online and listen to him . When I listen to it , it breaks out Is this old ? Well , it's Bach's song , but Yo-Yo Ma redid it in the cello and it's phenomenal .

Ray Comfort 8:39

I named my dog after Bach .

Oscar Navarro 8:42

He talks about Bach all the time Bach .

Emeal Zwayne 8:48

I don't know what . They call them concertos or um symphony , I don't know . But these , what's wrong with my voice today ? You're barely noticing hey , but like these things are long , you know , and they play these long pieces and we see these little kids like four , five , six and they're getting on there . Yeah , what a , what injustice to do a theme to united airlines ?

Ray Comfort 9:18

have you ever heard ?

Emeal Zwayne 9:19

that almost sounded like it , yeah it is .

Ray Comfort 9:22

yeah , it's a beautiful , very famous song from about 60 70 years ago , but that's just so complex . I saw a guy play it without music once . It's like nine minutes long Play it without music . He didn't have music in front of him , he just played it . Oh , no music , I just couldn't believe my eyes he could remember where every finger goes , because just one wrong move and boom . I know .

Mark Spence 9:44

You know , all my kids are into jazz music Really yeah , typically , if you get inside of their car or they drive my car , they change it to jazz .

Emeal Zwayne 9:53

I love jazz music . Jazz is groovy . The saxophone right , mainly in jazz . I don't know . I love that . I always wanted to learn the sax . That was my dream , good for open ear ?

Mark Spence 10:04

Nope , that's not it . Ray loves the bagpipes . What was that ? That was something terrible .

Ray Comfort 10:09

It was , yeah , I like having Todd Friel absolutely hates bagpipes .

Emeal Zwayne 10:14

Oh , me too . It is , in my opinion , the worst instrument on the planet .

Ray Comfort 10:18

No , it just reminds me of my chickens when you grab them and squeeze really hard . Exactly , it's just yeah . But Amazing Grace , she does Amazing Grace with the bagpipes . Yeah , soul stirring , yeah , we'll give them a pass on that one .

Emeal Zwayne 10:29

All right , friends , a cool , classy comment .

Ray Comfort 10:32

They used them in warfare . The bagpipes would go first .

Emeal Zwayne 10:35

That's all they needed , yeah , the enemy ran , forget weapons , use the bagpipes . So yeah , cool , classy comments . All right , friends , this is what I call Vindication Day . Oh dear .

Ray Comfort 10:49

Oh boy .

Emeal Zwayne 10:50

Vindication Day . You guys remember , a while ago I brought up the beauty and the genius of cursive writing . Someone wrote yeah , mark Spence mocked it . Nobody does cursive writing . And we said I don't mock it , I think it's beautiful . Yeah , yeah . But you said it's just dumb ? Nobody , it's just dumb .

Oscar Navarro 11:05

Nobody should use it . It's not utilitarian .

Emeal Zwayne 11:07

And you said you bet nobody listening to us even uses cursive . So we got some comments . This is from John Wall from Ontario . He said never thought I'd say this , but I agree with Easy . I also like cursive writing . Lita Kluswitz Hi , I am with Easy . Cursive is where it's at . Caitlin Sebo I really enjoy writing cursive . In fact all my siblings have been taught it or are learning it . Trifina , I am with Easy on both cursive . Trifina from India , by the way . I'm with Easy on both cursive writing and coffee with milk . Can't imagine a coffee without milk . Colleen Q , my husband and I write in cursive and print it's beautiful for writing in cards . I learned calligraphy and italics as a kid . I'm glad . Alexandra Guiligogimbo , Guiligogimbo , Sorry , hey , y'all . I've been listening to your podcast for years . I've wanted to write in many times but finally the greatest motivation set in the need to defend cursive . I'm with Easy and I super

Gossip and Mind Your Own Business

Emeal Zwayne 12:05

. I sure hope you get more than five emails attesting I'm against cursing this was sex email it's not .

Ray Comfort 12:12

It's not cursing . How's your dyslexia ? My sins have found me out someone sent a letter to you , easy and cursive , and I tossed it so , alexandra , yeah , what I said , what someone sent a letter in cursive saying they love cursive and I didn't pass it on to you .

Emeal Zwayne 12:26

My sins of wait , you're serious , I'm serious . It was the other day . We got an a letter mailed written love cursive , and I didn't pass it on to you . My sins have . Wait , you're serious , I'm serious . It was the other day .

Ray Comfort 12:29

We got a letter mailed , written in cursive , but it was addressed to the four of us , so I sent the lady a thank you and a gift back to her , but I didn't put the letter on your desk .

Oscar Navarro 12:39

You were ashamed , right ? There's a cursive letter on my desk right now . Sue probably put it there .

Ray Comfort 12:51

Oh , that'll get passed on easy in a couple months . I've had it for like four days . I haven't been able to get through it .

Emeal Zwayne 12:54

He's trying to think of the word deer at the beginning . Anyhow , thank you , friends , for standing with me for righteousness . Another radically revolutionary resource . This podcast is brought to you by Living Waters Cap .

Oscar Navarro 13:10

That's a hat Ram think they said cat cap selling cats , yeah the script is on a frozen , ten commandments branded onto them yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 13:18

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Ray Comfort 13:29

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Emeal Zwayne 13:31

Yeah , orders .

Ray Comfort 13:32

I give it away for a thousand Really .

Emeal Zwayne 13:34

Yeah , wow , ray , yeah , so I get a cheap cap freeing from Ray .

Ray Comfort 13:38

They're not cheap .

Emeal Zwayne 13:39

Yeah , and don't forget the Living Waters mug and having a study Bible . All that let's see today , livingwaterscom .

Ray Comfort 13:48

Do we have a new mug coming out , can we ? Oh , we do so . The time this comes out , we'll probably have .

Emeal Zwayne 13:53

Yeah , yeah , that's , unless you ordered it so be on the lookout for it , friends . It should show up when you go to the store . It's the new living waters mug which says on it . Oh , I love it , man . I have had people say to me they do that now with each other yeah yeah it's an epidemic .

Oscar Navarro 14:11

Yeah , that is epidemic .

Emeal Zwayne 14:14

All right , friends , on to today's show . We're going to be talking about how to mind your own business . I did that for nine years . Let people be you minded . Oh yeah , I'm minding my own business . Ray , my ob , what ?

Ray Comfort 14:30

yeah I think that's . That's internationally famous , isn't it ? It Myop , yeah , mind your own business .

Emeal Zwayne 14:35

Yeah , you used to say that to your kids , myop , who did you I ?

Ray Comfort 14:38

did . Yeah , rachel's got a lot of scars , hasn't she Myop ?

Emeal Zwayne 14:44

Yeah , mind your own business . Yesterday , rachel and I were chatting and I just said you know , honestly , I just want to mind my own business . I'm reading a book and I loved the title for this chapter . It was so simple , but it was this aren't you tired yet ? And it was just basically , you know , talking about trying to figure everything out and keep up on what's going on in people's lives , and it just resonated with me . There's something about constantly getting worked up about what's happening in other people's lives . Talking about it .

Ray Comfort 15:29

Do you want me to take the binoculars back ?

Emeal Zwayne 15:32

No , that's important .

Oscar Navarro 15:34

You need to stop wiretapping everyone's phones . That's the problem , EZ .

Emeal Zwayne 15:38

But you guys remember , like those . I remember one of those . What do you call it Matching ? Memory improving ? I know you , Ray , that's exactly right .

Ray Comfort 15:47

Of course , I thought how can I change it ?

Emeal Zwayne 15:49

Little House on the Prairie and when Mrs Olsen , they got phones finally in the town and Mrs Olsen was like the switchboard lady . She was the gossip and she was listening to people's calls . It was really funny , because then they ended up colluding to pretend they were talking about something and then like to get her worked up . Was she the one with the nice daughter ? The nasty daughter ? Yeah , was .

Oscar Navarro 16:15

Little House on the prairie a tv show or a movie tv show you serious .

Emeal Zwayne 16:18

You didn't know . No , wait , wait , have you heard of ?

Oscar Navarro 16:20

bonanza . I've heard you guys . I love bonanza . You guys mentioned little house .

Ray Comfort 16:24

Wait , wait , hold on it's like bonanza without the cowboys are we just gonna pretend like everyone ?

Emeal Zwayne 16:28

knows what that is . Oscar , you seriously never watched the house on the prairie ?

Oscar Navarro 16:32

How would I watch it Reruns ? Do they even sell black and white televisions anymore ?

Ray Comfort 16:36

Reruns it was before television .

Emeal Zwayne 16:39

Even when you were a kid , though there should have been reruns going , they've been going forever . Is it before or after ? I Love Lucy After .

Ray Comfort 16:47

It was .

Emeal Zwayne 16:48

The old 70s . I think they started in the 70s Into the 80s Early 80s .

Ray Comfort 16:53

Have you heard of Michael Landon ? Yes , you have , so you're familiar with Bonanza . He was Joe in Bonanza , the youngest one . He still doesn't know .

Oscar Navarro 17:02

He was the younger one in Bonanza , no .

Mark Spence 17:04

I know Bonanza yeah he was the young one .

Oscar Navarro 17:06

Which one's Joe , the younger one Little .

Mark Spence 17:08

Joe , he was little Joe , we don't remember anything like this , but I mean to his credit . My wife has been watching a lot of Little House on the Prairie lately to get her mind , you know , just to be preoccupied in different things . And she's enjoying down that trip down , oh I love it .

Emeal Zwayne 17:27

You know , Julia and her friend just went to like a Hollywood thing . Well , it was like a reunion type thing yeah , memorabil type thing . And it was yeah , it was like where they filmed it and then they had some of the actors there and they recreated like the house and you know different things .

Ray Comfort 17:41

You pull your eyes out with every picture . I mean what happens ? The dog goes blind , gets run over by a horse . The horse goes blind , breaks its legs .

Emeal Zwayne 17:49

Everybody's sick . Yeah ,

The Importance of Minding Your Business

Emeal Zwayne 17:52

but no . But the whole point just meddling in people's business , trying to control things , trying to , I don't know like , mess with people's convictions , hurry up , yeah . So , guys , I'd love to get your thoughts on that . And here's really the , I think , the question that we wanna tackle today how do we , as believers , learn to discipline ourselves , to just know when to keep our mouth shut , to control our emotions and to major on the majors and minor on the minors and not get all tangled up in people's affairs ? So , oscar , give us your thoughts .

Oscar Navarro 18:39

You know , as I was preparing for this , my mind immediately went to not so much interpersonal interaction though that's really important and we should definitely talk about that but the state of social media and our engagement with celebrities and political affairs , because so often we get hung up on personal matters that are basically gossip columns and you have to take a step back and go . This is none of my business , but it's an insatiating . It feeds our fears and our angers , especially if it's about somebody that's in opposition to our worldview or belief system . Then , like we revel in the information that's given to us about their political affairs . I remember one time someone sending me a video of a woman who was a politician , who was like walking out of some personal I don't even remember what like a massage or something , and she was tripping and falling and I'm watching this going . This is none of my business . This is none of my business .

Oscar Navarro 19:47

And I think of first Thessalonians , which Paul writes this on the backbone of political mayhem I mean , the whole city is up in arms , right , there was just a riot and he writes this letter to the Christians and he tells them we encourage you , brothers and sisters , do this even more , to seek to lead a quiet life , to mind your own business , to work with your own hands , as we commanded you , so that you may behave properly in the presence of outsiders and not dependent on anyone . In other words , this idea of minding our own business , of leading quiet lives , is a witness to the gospel , rather than being caught up in the presence of this moment that we live in .

Emeal Zwayne 20:36

Oscar , I'm glad you highlighted that , because I don't think we often think of public matters right Like a news item as an example , or maybe something about a political figure or whatever . We don't often think of that as being none of our business . I mean , we typically go to one of the main things we're gonna talk about and that's like other people that we know or people in our lives or whatever . But , ray , that is true , we're taking something that doesn't really concern us , it's not really a part of our lives , and we get all into it and worked up in it and it becomes even a form of gossip , because that's really what meddling in other people's affairs can become .

Ray Comfort 21:21

Yeah , we show interest in gossip . That's what most of the talk shows are often about things that don't really matter . But the things that do matter are the things of eternity . You look on things not temporal , but things that are eternal . Guys , you know I do dumb things sometimes .

Oscar Navarro 21:36

No , I did it today . No , I did , seriously , I did .

Ray Comfort 21:39

I took all my beautiful notes and overrode them with a really old file for this morning's podcast .

Oscar Navarro 21:44

What Are you just figuring this out ?

Ray Comfort 21:46

right now . I'm horrified . No , Now , this is from old stuff . I from old stuff . I just over . I back everything up on this phone and it's backed up with the wrong set of notes . So I had all the right Bible verses and wonderful things to say and I got nothing to say . So carry on Easy . Is that any of our business , right ?

Emeal Zwayne 22:03

Yes .

Boundaries and Family Relationships

Mark Spence 22:04

In this situation maybe you know , I think I perhaps might have some insight in the midst of this with the idea of meddling with other people , right , but we have to find a balance in the midst of this . Easy has often said something along these lines and that is you know , we go to a wedding , it's an outdoor wedding and there's candles that are lit or they're going to light a candle , and Easy goes oh no . And you look over at Easy and he's just shaking his head . Why didn't they check with me ?

Oscar Navarro 22:33

Why didn't ?

Emeal Zwayne 22:33

they check with me .

Mark Spence 22:35

You don't like candles outside , why didn't they check with me ? Or somebody who has an unusual name you know ? And Eze will go oh , why didn't they check with me ? Why didn't they check with me ? I've heard that , but I think there's a scripture that actually coincides with this , and this is Ecclesiastes 1.18 . It says for in much wisdom is much grief , and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow .

Mark Spence 22:57

I think that as we get a glimpse into Solomon , who was extremely wise , he's now surrounded by people that are not , and now they're making decisions that are not the best decisions , and he knows the decision that should be made and they're not making the decision . And what are you supposed to do ? Feel joyful over that ? No , Right .

Mark Spence 23:18

When we see people that now put their kids inside of a situation where they're setting them up for failure , and then you wanna give them knowledge , you wanna give them wisdom and insight as to maybe a good decision to make , and then they scorn that advice . When we're thinking to ourselves no , this is just right . We see this with our own kids as well . When our kids don't heed advice to us and we're thinking , okay , you're going to learn in the storm I choose for you . I want you to learn in the sanctuary , learn from my advice , learn from my experience , but you're not going to do it . So I think that us , as we begin to meddle , that it's not necessarily birthed from something that is bad or negative . Right and kids , when they're 16 years old , they think they just know everything . Or non-Christians , they think they just know everything .

Oscar Navarro 24:06

You bring a really good point and I think it's important to lay on a foundation of what is meddling , what is not my business and what does God call me to be a steward of . I would say like , if you think about what Paul talks about , a quiet life . A quiet life focuses on three things it focuses on your family , it focuses on your church and it focuses on your neighbors . I love that . And so a quiet life is discipling , it is engaging and is participating , is loving and caring to communicate and to disciple and to lead and to direct .

Oscar Navarro 24:41

But it doesn't invite us into not our business , I would say things outside of that immediate category is not our business . And as soon as we step into the not our business of the world , you know what it does . It just leads us to anxiousness and uncertainty because we're not created to bear the burdens of celebrities and politicians . You know what I mean . God did not create the world for us to be all knowing the way our phones make us almost all knowing of media and information and all of that right now news cycle . It just builds up anxiety in our lives rather than unplugging and focusing a quiet life on the three things that are around me my family , my church and my neighbors . That's great , I wrote that down , that's great .

Emeal Zwayne 25:27

I love that , Mark . I really wanna get back to what you highlighted , cause that . I'm so glad you brought that up . It's so , so important . You know , knowing things and , like you , brought up the candle thing right . The reason why I get worked up about that is because , as a pastor who's officiated at multiple weddings , I've seen this again and again . And again the couple puts candles in an outside wedding where the wind is blowing and it's inevitable they're going to blow out . Not just that , but even just candles in general that are being lit during a ceremony . Something always goes wrong with the lighter , it's just like , and it becomes this circus , you know .

Ray Comfort 26:09

Did you see the video I sent you where the guy bumped all these candles In the church ? Yeah , I love that , and he knocks over about a dozen candles .

Emeal Zwayne 26:18

So you're right , mark , I see that . Names , that's another thing , right , I mean coming from Lebanon and knowing all these Arabs that came here to the US and have these names and seeing them get tormented , you know . But , ray , I want to say this You've been a great example to Rachel and me , you and my mother-in-law , sue , in that you guys really have not meddled in our family affairs , I mean very few times over the course of the last 20 years . You just haven't seen us at your window . That's what I thought I saw in my peripheral .

Ray Comfort 26:49

Actually , it's more like this that's what I thought I saw in my peripheral . Actually it's more like this .

Emeal Zwayne 26:54

Yeah , but very few times have you really said something you know about . You know like that one I can picture .

Mark Spence 27:04

Sue , sue , she's standing on her shoulders .

Ray Comfort 27:10

Yeah , you couldn't reach the window . That's why .

Mark Spence 27:14

Ray's standing on her back .

Emeal Zwayne 27:17

But very few times have you guys said something . I mean , I remember way back in the day I know you remember this when I was seriously considering taking your beautiful daughter to Lebanon .

Ray Comfort 27:28

I wasn't excited about that you weren't . What was that movie that came out Not Without my Daughter ?

Emeal Zwayne 27:35

You weren't excited . But , ray , that was one of the few times you even barely said something and it was very controlled , like you didn't like it , you weren't happy with it , but at the end of the day you understood that we were a new family unit and that we had to honor the Lord . I mean , is that something you did consciously through the years , like let's let them live their own lives ? Yeah , absolutely .

Ray Comfort 27:54

I struggled with that whole thing , that going back to Lebanon thing because I said am I going to let my daughter go ? Do I own my daughter ? Does God own my daughter ? And when a husband and wife are joined together , let them leave their parents , father and mother Father and mother , father and mother .

Ray Comfort 28:13

That's all I forgot , yeah , and so , yeah , I've got to just . Oh , I'll never forget the feeling when I gave my daughter away at the wedding . Do you remember ? I don't know if I mentioned it , but we were standing at the back of about 400 people and everyone stood up and then suddenly every eye was on me , or Rachel , and we walked down the aisle and it was just so neat to be everyone looking at us and then it was just sit down and you stood up and took over and I became the old shoe . Yeah , yeah , you did . But yeah , it's very important to realize that . And the thing that helped me understand that is my father-in-law never meddled for a second , never said anything about my marriage , because he was very quiet .

Emeal Zwayne 28:58

He never said anything .

Ray Comfort 29:01

He was very quiet , so was my wife , and yes , but he didn't have any right to interfere because I had married his daughter , she had left and that's all there was to it . So I felt the same about you and Rachel .

Emeal Zwayne 29:20

Yeah , and so so mark back to to that . You know , yeah , that there is that point where we do have to stop , because there's something in us that it's almost like a , an itch , you know , like you know and you sense and you've seen , but there comes that time where we just have to just let them maybe make their own mistakes , yeah , you know . Let them grow in wisdom without us having to say something .

Mark Spence 29:40

You know I told my oldest son , noah , when he married Jessica . I said look , I love you , buddy , I'm sending you out , you know , into the world , shooting you out , you know , as far as I possibly can . But listen , I'd love for you to come back . I'd love for you to come back . I'd love for you to come around . You're welcome at any holiday , any gathering , anything that we have . You're not expected to come . We're gonna have Christmas celebrations . You're welcome to be there . For anything like that . You're not expected to be there . But if you do come , I'm gonna make it worth your while . There's gonna be presents and stuff for the kids . There's gonna be jovial laughter and times of getting inside the word and things of that nature . You're not expected to come to anything . I just wanna let you know that you're free to do whatever you wanna do . You wanna spend all holidays at her house or just the two of you ? It's great . I'll just return all the presents .

Respecting Boundaries and Family Relationships

Ray Comfort 30:28

I love the way an eagle gets rid of their young when they're growing up . Do you remember what the eagle does in the eagle's nest ? Takes all the feathers out and just leaves sticks sticking up . So it's not comfortable , so they want to fly off and not come back . That's what you've got to do with your kids . I remember when all our kids left home and got married . I went home and it was a really empty house . I just felt that Suddenly the reality of it hit me , and easy , you're starting to fill it slowly .

Emeal Zwayne 30:51

Luke moves out next month , so that'll be two down . Obviously , summer's married . Yeah , it's hard .

Oscar Navarro 30:59

Ray came home and was like it's an empty house now . And he had this revelation I need chickens , yes , 29 chickens Every room . You can't bring them inside .

Ray Comfort 31:06

You're not allowed to bring them inside . I don't think , but I'd like to bring them inside . Yeah , I know you would Ray . Yeah , I know you would Ray . I would actually create something . So when they laid the eggs , the eggs would roll down this sort of tube into the refrigerator or something . How about into your mouth , ray ?

Emeal Zwayne 31:22

Yeah , that would be quicker . Yeah , mark , that's beautiful . You know , one of the biggest problems with kids that end up getting married is holiday stuff . I've been blown away over the years like how much real drama that causes , and I've come to find , by way of wisdom and in keeping with our topic today minding your own business that this applies and there's nothing more beautiful than doing what you guys did . Mark , like to have an open , free hand . Ray , you again , sue , have been the same way . You've never made us feel like guilty . Oh , you again , sue , have been the same way . You've never made us feel guilty . Oh , we got this .

Emeal Zwayne 31:56

I love that attitude of being able to say to your kids go for it , no matter what . I mean , that's mine and Rachel's commitment with all our children's in-laws . Our heart's attitude is they always get first option on everything , no questions asked . No questions asked , absolutely go . Can't make it this Christmas ? Hey , we love you , no problem . Hey , why don't you come over , like the day after Christmas or the next week ? We'll do it then , man , that kind of attitude that fosters closeness with your kids in the future Because , as I shared before , our kids grow up and they are going to be able to make their own decision whether or not they're going to be close to us , and oftentimes that decision is influenced by what we did with them , first as they were growing up , but even as they begin to enter their own relationship , if we were overbearing , if we were controlling , if we were jealous , I can assure you they're going to activate that option to distance themselves .

Oscar Navarro 32:51

You don't want that . You know , my in-laws were amazing at this too . When we got married , we spent about a year and a half , I think , living with them to save money to buy our first home , and they were not believers . And the whole time we were there , they never once tried to tell us how to parent our children , how to be married , how to communicate , how to deal with finances .

Ray Comfort 33:16

Well , that's commendable , for non-believers .

Oscar Navarro 33:18

It really is , and through that my father-in-law came to a saving faith and was one of the first to be baptized at our church , and our witness to him was he came to us , he had heard the gospel , he had heard us sitting in the backyard talking through things , and then he witnessed it through our marriage and that's what brought him to a saving faith , and so the Lord blessed it . But the point is is to your point , they were . I'm so thankful how hands off they were . They've been the same way about Christmas and Thanksgiving and that has caused us in some ways to want to be there , like we laid out the calendar and we want to be there on Christmas Eve . We want to be there on Easter because it's an open invitation , much like you . It's like man , we're gonna be here . We'd love for you to be here . If not , we totally understand , we'll do something else later if that works best for you .

Emeal Zwayne 34:04

Yeah , yeah , that's human nature . You know , the more you crowd someone , you make them feel guilty , you obligate them . It's like magnets , right being turned on the opposite . It just pushes people away and that happens . You call that person you haven't talked to in a long time and hey , how's it going ? And they're like oh , finally , I haven't heard from you in forever . And how excited are you going to be to call them the next time , Whereas it's like , oh man , I'm so sorry , Bro , don't even worry about it . I've been so busy and I know how life is . But it's great to hear from you . It's invitational , yeah .

Ray Comfort 34:44

I just love that what you just said there , because last Sunday was one of the most horrific Sundays I've ever had in my life because I found out because of a mistake I was supposed to be at a church and I didn't show up . On Sunday morning when I found out I was horrified . It was just someone overlooked something and they waited for me . They thought I'd been killed or something , but I hadn't . It just didn't happen . That was this Sunday , this last Sunday , and I just hardly could . I was almost in tears , could hardly sleep that night just the thought of it . So I called the pastor with a repentant voice message to him just saying this is a repentant rate comfort . Please forgive me . Here's my number if you ever want to talk to me again . And he called the next day and oh he was so nice .

Emeal Zwayne 35:26

Okay , ray , this is crazy . In fact , I have evidence . I can show you my texts right now . Yesterday , mark and I both were texting about how we both almost forgot that we had to be at a church yesterday , the same day .

Oscar Navarro 35:38

Can you ? Imagine if all three of us , this past Sunday , this past Sunday , oh , you guys together or two separate churches , two separate churches , two separate churches .

Emeal Zwayne 35:45

All three of us had three separate churches to speak at and all three of us almost forgot Well one did Almost .

Mark Spence 35:51

One did yeah . So the pastor sent me a text saying morning brother . When you come , you can park in the parking lot at this address . I'm like , oh no , I'm speaking in an hour and a half .

Emeal Zwayne 36:02

This was hours before , right , Mark . It was two hours exactly two hours and me the day before I was planning okay , sunday I'm going to do this and I'm going to do that . And then Rachel goes say when you speak at that church tomorrow , and that's how I remembered . I'm like , ah , I mean , look , we're responsible people , we have calendars , we have all kinds of things , but once in a while , you know .

Oscar Navarro 36:23

So if you're looking for public speakers , good luck .

Ray Comfort 36:27

Anyway , like I was , saying this pastor called back and he was so nice . He said no problem at all . These things happen .

Emeal Zwayne 36:39

And we look forward to having you on the such and such .

Ray Comfort 36:40

You're not getting an honorary . So gracious , yeah , and it just made me feel so good . I just don't care if I don't show up now . No , I said to him , I'm going to write this on my forehead with a marker pen the date . Did you reschedule it ?

Emeal Zwayne 36:51

Yes , Oscar , what did that pastor say ? I was just trying to remember on the 10th church that you missed in a row .

Oscar Navarro 36:59

I do have a question for you , Uzi . There are people in our lives where we see them going through things . At what point do we like ? What do you do ? Do you wait for them to seek counsel from you ? I'm talking about a member of our church , for example , or a family member . Whatever the case , Do you wait for them to come to you to seek counsel ? Do you approach them ? What does that balance look like of wanting to mind your own business , having a quiet life , but also they are in that circle of family , church , community and you wanna participate . How do you balance ?

Emeal Zwayne 37:30

that that's such a good question . I think honestly , in all of this that we're talking about , it goes back to the heart . When your heart attitude is one of genuine care and a desire to not meddle in people's business , it'll affect your demeanor Right , and people know like there's a difference between you having gone , gossiped about it , got all worked up about it , been judgmental about it . You know , oh yeah , they haven't been to church in so long . They probably doing this and that , whatever , with that face . Yeah , Then you approach them and that's going to seep through , sure , you know . So it's like hey , where you been ? Man , I haven't seen you in a while . You know . Versus hey , bro , I miss you , I haven't seen you in a while . Is everything , everything , okay , you know .

Emeal Zwayne 38:14

And so I think you have to obviously be sensitive , discerning . You know every situation is different . You have different contexts , but I think that it is good to check up on each other you know to , to make sure that others are doing well , because how many stories have we heard where someone's like man , I was going through this , no one even cared , no one checked on me , no one hadn't been around in a while . No one was like where were you . You get those stories all the time . So I think it is good to do that when you sense a concern and something doesn't seem right . But it's how you do it , it's that spirit of sweetness . It's again asking questions versus making accusations , even if you've heard something . Hey , man , I heard this . But I know you , I know your character , I I'm sure it's probably not accurate , but I just wanted to , you know , just check with you on it because I love you , you know , and I think those sorts of things are good .

Ray Comfort 39:05

but but you know , there is ray comfort how long did it take you , uh , to get used to putting little love hearts on texts back to people ?

Emeal Zwayne 39:14

it took a while it took me a little while yeah , I felt weird as a man to do a heart , yeah , but now I'm fine .

Ray Comfort 39:19

Someone sends you something that's great and I love it . I just send a little heart back and I don't feel bad . But at first it was awkward yeah .

Emeal Zwayne 39:26

when a real buff , manly , masculine man did that once I'm like , oh , it's okay for me to do it . Oh , thank you ?

Ray Comfort 39:31

That was me . Yeah , I'm laughing too much .

Emeal Zwayne 39:34

Yeah , but yeah , I love 1 Peter 4.15 . It says but let none of you suffer as a murderer , a thief , an evildoer or as a busybody in other people's matters . What a fitting Mark just sent me a love heart . But 1 Peter 4.15, . Guys , I was reading Let none of you suffer as a murderer , a thief , an evildoer or as a busybody in other people's matters , Like look at that list that that was added to Murderer , thief , evildoer , busybody . I never thought of that , which one doesn't belong .

Mark Spence 40:13

No , that's good .

Emeal Zwayne 40:14

But I think it goes to show that this is serious , because you can destroy a home , you can destroy a family by being a busy body . Did you hear about easy ?

Ray Comfort 40:26

See , did you see these guys yeah ?

Emeal Zwayne 40:27

so the ears move forward . Yeah , but yeah . A busy body , Isn't that a cool term , Oscar .

Oscar Navarro 40:36

It is . And I think the reason why maybe the Lord or Peter in that letter equated it to murder , is because what happens , what is the sin in our lives that cause us to meddle ? The thing that causes us to meddle is that when we compare ourselves to other people , we eventually or I should say , when we talk about other people we eventually in some way , shape or form , compare ourselves to them . And when we compare ourselves to other people , we become very quickly the legalist , the Pharisee , you know . We immediately want to know we are better than them .

Oscar Navarro 41:15

Well , I can't believe they do it that way , and can you believe he did this ? And I would never and my person wouldn't . And so therein lies the reason why a busy body would be right next to the murderers . Because of pride , because our pride kicks in and we have hatred in our heart for others , because we wanna feel elite , because we wanna feel prioritized , because we wanna feel more righteous than the next person . And so the Lord sees the spiritual , and when he sees the spiritual , he sees the busy body and the murderer in the same place , which is in need of grace , wow .

Emeal Zwayne 41:51

Yeah , and I mean , ray , don't you think that being a busybody meddling in people's affairs and gossip kind of go hand in hand , that it typically ends up leading there ?

Ray Comfort 42:04

The key is to grab the golden rule , which we have access to because the love of Christ dwells within us , and put it into practice . If you love others as you love yourself and want to do good to them , you'll not say things that are unkind or think unkind thoughts .

Emeal Zwayne 42:18

Yeah , I think , ultimately , it's a violation of love , because when you think about the scenario , you're that's what I was saying . Yeah , you think of the scenario of something that someone is doing , and that's typically how it starts , right , we know someone and they're doing this . We don't like this , we don't agree with this , that's not our conviction or whatever , and so we begin right , and what we need to ask ourselves is are we praying for those people ? Like , if it's something that we're genuinely concerned about , has it begun with prayer Praying on ?

Ray Comfort 42:55

or praying for .

Emeal Zwayne 42:56

Praying on praying for .

Ray Comfort 42:58

P-R-E-Y-I .

Emeal Zwayne 43:01

Oh , I like that Ray . He just baptized me . Baptizes Ray with water , yeah , like . I think that's a good indicator . And for those of you listening right now , ask yourself this when you have been talking with others about others , did you first go to the Lord and sincerely pour out your heart and intercession for those people ? Can you give us an example ?

Emeal Zwayne 43:28

Well , remember that one time when Mark you know , but like and if you haven't , you really have no business talking about it , unless it's genuinely to find a solution with someone who may know what's going on as well . And you're guarded as you're doing , You're careful as you do it .

Ray Comfort 43:47

If we're about our father's business , we won't worry about other people's business . Ooh .

Emeal Zwayne 43:51

Ray , you're on a roll today .

Convictions and Self-Reflection

Mark Spence 43:54

What is that saying that you say easy about ?

Emeal Zwayne 43:58

talk to me all you want . If you please , I'll talk to you . Oh , it's a saying , it's not original , but talk about it all you please . I'll talk about it on my knees . I love that .

Emeal Zwayne 44:06

Yeah , and again , convictions , I think is an area where it's really difficult , because when we feel something about something and someone's not doing that and it's not a biblical thing , now look , I'm not saying that we can't speak wisdom into each other's lives , even if it's not something that's biblically concrete . If we're beginning to see issues of breakdown or compromise or whatever . You're talking about personal convictions , yeah , yeah , like you know , whatever I mean . For example , maybe some believers have a hard time listening to secular music as an example . We've talked about that on the program before and there's another believer that's listening to secular music . But you know they're tempted to be like , hey , why don't you listen to Christian music all the time ? Why don't you listen to secular music ? Listen to Christian music all the time ? Why do you listen to secular music ? You know we need to just let people be , let them live their own lives .

Emeal Zwayne 45:01

Now , if our brother is listening to you know Marilyn Manson if he's still around , maybe I'm dating myself . Or listening to you know , eminem , or it's something that's foul and vulgar and profane and blasphemous . Look , that's an to like speak into their life on that , you know . But where we , we go the extra mile is where , like , hey , I listen to second music .

Emeal Zwayne 45:23

Let's say , someone feel they listen to second music and it just grieves them and it and it , you know , is not edifying for them and it pricks their conscience . The problem is , is we extrapolate and then we conclude that must be that brother's experience and it's , you know , probably the furthest thing from their experience . But that's where we overstep our bound when it's something that is in an area like that . But if I start seeing , hey , this brother hasn't come to church , you know , for seven weeks . What's he doing ? Oh , he's at home listening to Lionel Richie . You know whatever . Maybe Lionel Richie's songs are tame or just love songs or whatever , but now it's not even the songs that's a problem . It's that he's now not prioritizing what's more important .

Oscar Navarro 46:06

I'm picturing a guy now skipping church because he's putting Lionel Richie records on vinyl .

Ray Comfort 46:12

I'm seeing a pastor now playing Lionel Richie records in church to get his people to come back .

Emeal Zwayne 46:18

Draw them in with good old Lionel . Yeah , so Lionel on vinyl . Yeah . So I think all those things are key . And to remember , you know , romans 14 , 4 , who are you to judge another servant to his own master ? He stands or falls . Indeed , he will be made to stand , for God is able to make him stand . He's God's servant , you know . Let's give that latitude , let's give ourselves to prayer , let's be encouraging , and if we see concern , yeah let's ask each other , hey , what's going on ?

Emeal Zwayne 46:47

And have that again , that humble , gentle spirit . You know , just yesterday I talked to someone that I hadn't seen in about 25 years maybe .

Ray Comfort 46:58

Probation officer .

Emeal Zwayne 47:00

Yeah , a lone shark coming after me , that was good , but I haven't seen this person in about 25 years . I saw him at a wedding and as we began to talk he just went negative immediately on something , and I remember my last conversation with him 25 years ago was on something negative . That's where we left off and that's where he picked it up 25 years later , and it was just so sad . I don't want to be that person . I don't want to be that person . I wanna be that kind of person that all of us can maybe think of in our minds , that every time we see them , they are a breath of fresh air . Even when they've corrected us , even when they've confronted us , we've walked away feeling blessed and thankful to the Lord because we were loved by them . That's how I wanna be . Who was that guy Jalabuxi ?

Oscar Navarro 47:58

They didn't check with you . Why was he still upset with Mark ?

Emeal Zwayne 48:05

Let me close us with this final exhortation from Martin Lloyd-Jones .

Oscar Navarro 48:09

The doctor .

Emeal Zwayne 48:11

The main art in the matter of spiritual living is to know how to handle yourself . You have to take yourself in hand . You have to address yourself , preach to yourself , question yourself . You must say to your soul why art thou downcast ? Why art thou down ? What business have you to be disquieted ? You must turn on yourself , upbraid yourself , condemn yourself , exhort yourself and say to yourself hope thou in God instead of muttering in this depressed , unhappy way . And then you must go on to remind yourself of God , who God is and what God is and what God has done and what God has pledged himself to do . Then , having done that , end on this great note , defy yourself and defy other people and defy the devil and the whole world , and say with this man I shall yet praise him for the health of his countenance , who is also the health of my countenance and my God .

Oscar Navarro 49:05

For those who don't know , Dr Martin Lloyd-Jones was like one of the wisest schizophrenics .

Emeal Zwayne 49:11

Was he ? Was he ? Tell us all about it .

Ray Comfort 49:12

I think we're going to do a Martin Lloyd Jones accent while you're reading this quote . You should do that .

Emeal Zwayne 49:22

Oh boy , all right friends . Yeah , so there you have it . Focus on yourself . Don't meddle in other people's business , don't be a busybody . Worship God , pray for other people , love on other people , Share when you're concerned and , man , be a happy warrior for the glory of God . Well , there you have it . Don't forget the Living Waters cap , living Waters mug , the Evidence Study Bible , all at livingwaterscom . Keep writing to us at podcastlivingwaterscom and be a good person . Thank you for joining us , friends . We'll see you here next time on the living waters podcast , the one podcast you can't wait to turn off . Yep , right , yep , right , right , yep , yep .