

      <h2 id="honest-assessment-and-faithful-confession"><a class="no-underline" href="#honest-assessment-and-faithful-confession">Honest Assessment and Faithful Confession</a></h2>


        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>1:04</time>
      <p>
          A   senior   pastor ,   especially   his   closest   friends ,   are   outside   of   the   church .   It&#39;s   not   their   associate ,   it&#39;s   not   their   assistant   pastors ,   it&#39;s   some   random   pastor   who&#39;s   too   busy   to   ask   difficult   questions ,   to   hit   them   up   because   they&#39;re   busy   themselves .   Pause ,   take   that   honest   assessment ,   look   inside   the   mirror   and   say ,   lord ,   search   me   and   try   me ,   see   if   there   be   any   wicked   way   in   me   and   lead   me   in   the   way   everlasting .   Where   am   I   currently   at ?   What   do   I   need   to   do ?   What   do   I   need   to   confess ?   Because   God   will   not   bless   or   fill   a   dirty   cup .   He   can&#39;t .   You   may   fool   people   this   side   of   heaven ,   but   every   private   sin   is   an   open   spectacle   in   heaven ,   vance   Havner   said .   So   we   take   that   honest   assessment   and   then   we   take   that   step   of   faith   to   communicate .   To   communicate   to   people   who   have   run   their   race   before   them ,   and   you   just   talk   and   let   the   cards   fall   where   they   may .   But   unfortunately ,   what   happens   is   you   have   these   pastors   who   get   paid   very   little ,   who   don&#39;t   know   how   to   do   anything   else ,   and   so   they   don&#39;t   know   where   to   turn ,   they   don&#39;t   know   what   to   do .   That   is   a   difficult   situation ,   because   they&#39;ve   set   themselves   up   for   failure ,   and   now   you   have   people   that   are   looking   at   them   as   hypocrites ,   as   they   should .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>2:19</time>
      <p>
          I   read   a   quote   from   Spurgeon   nothing   stinks   more   than   hypocrisy .   Of   course ,   right .   A   hypocrite   is   a   person   who   acts   different   on   Sundayay   morning .   You&#39;re   not   fooling   anyone   and   you&#39;re   not   going   to   get   away   with   anything .   So   acknowledge   the   truth .   Don&#39;t   cover   it   up ,   don&#39;t   deny   it ,   because   it&#39;s   going   to   cause   further   harm   and   you   don&#39;t   know   the   hole   that   you&#39;re   digging .   So   confess   your   sins .   He   is   is   faithful ,   just   to   forgive   your   sins ,   to   cleanse   you   of   all   unrighteousness ,   to   lead   you   in   the   path   that   you   should   go ,   and   he   will   better   take   care   of   the   sheep .   With   your   confession   today .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>3:02</time>
      <p>
          Never   gonna ,   ever   gonna ,   never ,   ever   gonna   leave   you .   You&#39;re   the   one   that   I   love   and   I   wanna .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>3:08</time>
      <p>
          I   blew   that   one .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>3:12</time>
      <p>
          No ,   you   didn&#39;t   when   I   feel   your   heart   beating   next   to   mine   with   a   love   so   true ,   so   divine ,   I   thank   my   God   for   all   he&#39;s   done   and   how   he   has   made   us   one ,   never ,   ever   gonna   leave   you .   You&#39;re   the   one   that   I   love   and   I   never   want   to   grieve .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>3:34</time>
      <p>
          You   are   you   trying   out   to   be   the   next   star   spangled   banner .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>3:38</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m   still   I&#39;m   still   riding   such   a   high   from   having   my   wife   on   the   podcast   that   the   love   is   just   flowing   that&#39;s   a   song   I   wrote   for   her .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>3:46</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   beautiful .   I&#39;d   rather   wrestle   a   serbian   polar   bear   than   listen   to   that   again .   Did   you   write ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>3:49</time>
      <p>
          that   I   did .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>3:51</time>
      <p>
          That   had   a   little   bit   of   that   was   better   than   the   other   one   that   I   hate   In   the   grip   of   my   father&#39;s   grave .   No ,   that&#39;s   awful ,   no ,   seriously ,   that   one   had   potential   Thank   you   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:05</time>
      <p>
          Rachel   hates   it   everything   including   me .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:06</time>
      <p>
          Mostly   the   he   singing ,   including   me   attached   to   it ,   but   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>4:12</time>
      <p>
          But   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:13</time>
      <p>
          Did   you   guys   know ?   You   guys   remember   David   Hasselhoff .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>4:16</time>
      <p>
          Yes .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:16</time>
      <p>
          Knight .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>4:17</time>
      <p>
          Rider .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:18</time>
      <p>
          Get   in   my   car .   The   Knight   Rider ,   michael   Knight .   You   guys   know   that   guy   was   a   legend ,   a   singing   legend   In   Germany ,   right   Germany .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>4:27</time>
      <p>
          In   Russia .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:27</time>
      <p>
          The   Netherlands .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>4:29</time>
      <p>
          The .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:29</time>
      <p>
          Netherlands ,   norway ,   justin   Bieber   of   Eastern .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>4:32</time>
      <p>
          Europe .   Have   you   seen   the   video   of   him   singing   the   song   Get   In   my   Car ?   No ,   it&#39;s   like   the   Knight   Rider .   Are   you   serious ?   Get   In   my   Car ?   Yeah ,   it&#39;s   been   years   since   I&#39;ve   seen   it ,   but   it&#39;s   so   hilarious .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>4:41</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   somehow   I   discovered   years   ago   that   he   was   this   insane   singing   legend ,   the   Hoff ,   dude ,   the   Hoff ,   like   insane   legend .   Oh ,   the   half ,   yeah ,   but   guys ,   but   speaking   of   david   hasselhoff   and   night   rider ,   when   I   was   a   kid ,   like   kit   was   my   idol ,   like   I   mean   I ,   that   car   was   like   my   dream   and   we   have   it   in   real   life   now .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>5:00</time>
      <p>
          This   is   insane .   Yeah ,   my   prius   yeah   no ,   but   seriously   mean .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>5:05</time>
      <p>
          cars   are   now   driving   us ,   cars   are   talking   to   us .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>5:09</time>
      <p>
          This   is   just   insanity .   Do   you   know   that   the   voice   that   did   Kit   is   also   Mr   Feeney   from   Boy   Meets   World ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>5:16</time>
      <p>
          What   it&#39;s   the   same   guy   Seriously   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>5:19</time>
      <p>
          No ,   yes ,   100% .   That&#39;s   crazy .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>5:23</time>
      <p>
          Isn&#39;t   that   wild ?   Hey   Michael ,   that&#39;s   so   wild ,   I   can   hardly   stand   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>5:26</time>
      <p>
          I   love   you ,   michael .   I   mean   seriously .   They   totally   succeeded   in   personifying   a   car .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>5:34</time>
      <p>
          I   mean   that   thing   to   me   was   a   real   person .   Yeah ,   it&#39;s   Siri   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>5:38</time>
      <p>
          But   I   mean ,   that&#39;s   what   I   always   wonder   with   technology ,   is   it   that   we   are   emulating   what   we&#39;re   seeing   in   movies   and   on   TV ,   or   are   they   projecting   what&#39;s   to   come ,   based   on   technology   they&#39;re   aware   of ,   you   know ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>5:52</time>
      <p>
          I   read   a   book   years   ago .   It   was   called   Apologetics   in   the   Christian   Imagination   by   Holly   Ordway ,   and   she   pointed   out   how   the   imagination   helps   us   come   to   realize   things   that   are   true .   And   she   points   out   that   often   science   fiction   precedes   science   Wow ,   and   she   points   out   that   often   science   fiction   precedes   science   wow ,   and   she ,   she   predicts   that   basically   the   imagination   is   what   compels   us   to   go   create   in   the   world   so   would   god   have   imagined   before   he   created   in   genesis   one   oh   that&#39;s   uh ,   that&#39;s   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>6:23</time>
      <p>
          I   think   that&#39;s   what   is   that   anthropomorphic ,   you   know ,   thought ,   of   course ,   yeah ,   I   don&#39;t   because   if   god&#39;s   imagining ,   he   doesn&#39;t   know   what   he&#39;s   going   to   think .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>6:29</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   exactly ,   then   you   start   venturing   into   open   fields .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>6:32</time>
      <p>
          Remember   that   first   national   church   of   the   imagination .   Has   it   ever   occurred   to   you   that   nothing   has   ever   occurred   to   God ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>6:37</time>
      <p>
          I   don&#39;t   know   who   said   that .   Yeah ,   that   was   great ,   I   like   that .   I   said   that   I   like   that .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>6:50</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   I&#39;d   love   to   test   that   on   you ,   Ray .   Could   you   actually   sit   behind   the   wheel   of   an   autonomous   car   and   let   it   drive   you ?   No ,   I&#39;d   hate   it .   I   knew   that .   You   guys   should   have   seen   Ray   in   India .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>6:56</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   that   was .   They   have   autonomous   cars   in   India ,   right .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>6:58</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   boy   you   know ,   that&#39;s   a   good   question ,   if   they   could   even   work   there   it   was   insane .   Because   they   don&#39;t   have   like   it   was   about   two   hours   was   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>7:04</time>
      <p>
          I   was   carrying   the   back   seat   Ray   was   seriously .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>7:07</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;d   never   seen   Ray ,   so   stressed .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>7:09</time>
      <p>
          What   was   it   like ?   Just ,   we&#39;re   going   to   die   now .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>7:12</time>
      <p>
          No ,   it&#39;s   going   to   be   now .   Now ,   no ,   because   you   know   they   like   overtake .   They   go   around   and   vehicles   On   the   wrong   side .   It&#39;s   like   hunting   chicken ,   yeah ,   and   they&#39;re   honking   while   they   do   it .   That&#39;s   how   it   was   affected   by ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>7:32</time>
      <p>
          did   it   affect   it ?   No ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>7:35</time>
      <p>
          speaking   of   the   jetsons ,   there&#39;s   no   way   flying ,   flying   cars   could   work   right ,   and   now   they&#39;re   on   the   brink   yeah ,   but   how   could   you   just ?   No ,   I&#39;m   serious ,   but   you   think   of   the   congestion ,   how ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>7:45</time>
      <p>
          no ,   no   see ,   you   never   thought   about .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>7:46</time>
      <p>
          Don&#39;t   point   at   me   congestion .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>7:47</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;ll   tell   you   how .   No ,   no   See ,   you   never   thought   about   that .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>7:48</time>
      <p>
          Don&#39;t   point   at   me   when   you   hey ,   I&#39;ll   tell   you   how .   Judge   not ,   I&#39;m   going   to   start   a   church   on   the   Jetsons .   The   reason   why ,   and   I   used   to   think   the   same   thing .   How   can   that   work ?   Because   of   this   and   that ,   but   you   think   about   autonomous   cars ,   the   cameras ,   the   radar .   They   stop .   So   everything   would   be   like   Automated ,   yeah ,   automated .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>8:07</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   but   I   don&#39;t   want   someone   hovering   over   our   house .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:11</time>
      <p>
          They&#39;ll   have   parachutes .   They&#39;d   probably   have   like   no-fly   zones .   Why   would   that   be   good ?   They&#39;ll   have   parachutes ,   right ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>8:16</time>
      <p>
          Just   think   of   congestion   on   a   405 .   Imagine   a   405   flying .   They&#39;re   all   flying .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:21</time>
      <p>
          You&#39;ve   got   limitless   space   up   there .   They&#39;ll   figure   it   out ,   don&#39;t   worry ,   ray .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>8:30</time>
      <p>
          They&#39;ll   Don&#39;t   figure   it   out .   Don&#39;t   worry ,   ray ,   don&#39;t   figure   it   out .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:32</time>
      <p>
          What   could   go   wrong ?   Hang   on .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>8:32</time>
      <p>
          Here&#39;s   a   guy   on   an   18-wheeler   flying   over   a   house .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:34</time>
      <p>
          Hey ,   la   City   Planning   Committee .   Oh ,   that&#39;s   right ,   they&#39;ll   figure   it   out .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:35</time>
      <p>
          They&#39;ll   definitely   figure   it   out .   Billions .   All   right ,   friends .   Time   for   a   cool ,   classy   comment .   This   is   from   Emma   N   B .   Hello   friends ,   she   wrote   it   out   that   way   my   name   is   Emma   and   I   am   17 .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>8:50</time>
      <p>
          I   strive   to   be   a   missionary   and   find   so   many   useful   tools   to   put   in   my   tool   belt   by   listening   to   the   Living   Waters   podcast .   I&#39;ve   been   listening   for   about   a   year   and   a   half .   I&#39;ve   been   watching   Ray   on   YouTube   for   about   five   years .   I&#39;ve   learned   so   much   about   how   to   be   a   modest   and   humble   Proverbs .   31   woman   of   God .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>9:06</time>
      <p>
          Ray ,   I   wanna   thank   you   for   all   the   experience   you   bring   to   the   table   and   how   you   share   an   infinite   love   of   dogs .   Ha   ha ,   mark ,   you   have   such   a   talent   for   coming   up   with   amazing   insight   that   hits   deep .   Oscar ,   I   love   how   you   share   practical   ways   to   plug   in   with   the   gospel   community   and   reach   others ,   reach   out   to   peers .   Finally ,   easy ,   you   bring   such   joy   and   laughter   to   the   gang ,   as   well   as   such   deep   compassion   for   everyone   around   you ,   except   for   Ray .   Mark   and   Oscar   Laugh   out   loud .   I   agree   with   Easy   on   the   name   Augustine ,   yes .   Lastly ,   I   have   a   joke   for   y&#39;all .   Why   did   Ray   Comfort   cross   the   road ?   Because   there   was   a   chicken   on   the   other   side .   Oh ,   that&#39;s   pretty   good .   Keep   doing   what   you&#39;re   doing   With   love   to   my   brothers   in   Christ ,   your   beloved   friend   and   listener ,   emma   and   Bea .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>9:50</time>
      <p>
          Emma ,   we&#39;ll   send   you   a   free   chicken .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>9:53</time>
      <p>
          Thank   you ,   emma .   Thank   you ,   emma ,   very ,   very   encouraging .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>9:56</time>
      <p>
          I   got   a   letter   here   from   a   seven-year-old   in   Alaska .   My   name   is   Bethany   Faith .   I&#39;m   seven   years   old .   I&#39;m   the   oldest   in   my   family ,   a   young   family .   I   live   in   Alaska .   I   like   listening   to   the   podcast   because   I   like   how   silly   you   are   Talking   about   you ,   eason .   I   love   the   Bible .   I&#39;ve   never   won   the   contest   and   I   really   want   to   win ,   so   we&#39;ll   send   her   something   Precious .   What&#39;s   her   name ?   Again ,   it&#39;s   Bethany   Faith .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>10:20</time>
      <p>
          Bethany ,   I&#39;ve   got   a   letter   here   from   a   seven-month   baby .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>10:26</time>
      <p>
          I   got   one   from   an   embryo .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>10:27</time>
      <p>
          We   should   send   her   a   winter   schnitzel   like   a   chili   cheese   dog   Half   eaten .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>10:31</time>
      <p>
          Half   eaten .   Thank   you ,   Bethany .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>10:33</time>
      <p>
          That   is   really   sweet   that   was   so   much .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>10:35</time>
      <p>
          What   a   joy .   All   right ,   friends ,   it&#39;s   time   for   a   radically   revolutionary   resource .   This   podcast   is   brought   to   you   by   the   School   of   Biblical   Evangelism   textbook   101   Lessons   in   Evangelism ,   and   this   is   authored   by   Ray   Comfort ,   mark   Spence   and   Kirk   Cameron .   Mark ,   you&#39;re   an   author .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>10:54</time>
      <p>
          Yes ,   and   so   are   you .   Oh ,   I   am .   How   did   that   get   to   this ?   I   wasn&#39;t   going   to   mention   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>10:59</time>
      <p>
          I   don&#39;t   want   to   just   keep   talking   about   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>11:00</time>
      <p>
          So ,   how&#39;s   it   doing   on   Amazon ?   Yeah ,   how&#39;s   it   doing .   We   looked   it   up   and   it   was   like   number   one .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>11:05</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   like   number   one .   Yeah ,   it&#39;s   number   one   in   a   category   that   deals   with   silliness ,   yeah ,   stupidity ,   just   sexual   health   recovery   type   things ,   but   it&#39;s   like   also   within   Christian   living .   I   can&#39;t   remember   the   two   categories ,   but   it&#39;s   in   the   top   hundred   and   this   is   just   after   one   day   of   announcing   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>11:22</time>
      <p>
          So   yeah ,   friends   fight   like   a   man ,   so   go   in   there   and   like   it   and   buy   it ,   or ,   whatever   you   do ,   subscribe   to   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>11:28</time>
      <p>
          Listen ,   you   don&#39;t   even   have   to   read   it ,   just   buy   it .   Just   buy   it .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>11:32</time>
      <p>
          Buy   it   like   a   man .   A   bold   biblical   battle   plan   for   personal   purity   Did   you   say   buy   it   like   a   man .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>11:38</time>
      <p>
          Buy   it   like   a   man .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>11:39</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   do   that .   Do   that .   Men   and   women   buy   it   like   women   for   men .   All   right   friends .   What   was   I   talking   about ?   Oh ,   the   textbook .   Yeah ,   Mark&#39;s   an   author .   That&#39;s   where   we   were .   Good   job ,   Mark .   Living   Waters .   Mug ,   they&#39;re   having   to   study   Bible .   All   right ,   Living   Waters .   Whoa ,   that   was   a   good   grounding ,   Livingwaterscom .   Thank   you   for   clarity .   I   think   people   know   it   by   now .   Clarity&#39;s   been   listening   quite   a   lot   lately .   Yeah ,   Clarity&#39;s   lately .   Yeah ,   clarity   is   our   friend .   All   right   friends .   Today   we   are   dealing   with   actually   a   rather   heavy   topic ,   one   that   is   prevalent   because   it   just   keeps   on   happening .   Today   we&#39;re   talking   about   how   to   properly   handle   the   fall   of   a   pastor .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>12:21</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   I   thought   we   were   going   to   do   the   fall   of   an   El   Pastor   taco .   When   it   hits   the   ground ,   do   you   eat   it ,   do   you   not ?   

      </p>

      <h2 id="guarding-against-moral-failure"><a class="no-underline" href="#guarding-against-moral-failure">Guarding Against Moral Failure</a></h2>


        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>12:28</time>
      <p>
          eat   it   Five .   Second   rule   we   know   what   you&#39;ve   got   on   your   mind ,   oscar ,   but   we&#39;ve   talked   about   the   fact   that   Mark   and   I   at   least   keep   a   list .   It&#39;s   a   sad   list ,   it&#39;s   a   heartbreaking   list ,   but   it&#39;s   a   necessary   list   because   it   helps   us   guard   our   own   hearts .   Mark   and   I   have   both   pastored ,   we&#39;re   both   ordained   pastors .   It   helps   us   guard   our   own   hearts .   Mark   and   I   have   both   pastored ,   we&#39;re   both   ordained   pastors   and   all   of   us   here   have   served   in   that   capacity   to   one   degree   or   another .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>13:00</time>
      <p>
          So   we   keep   that   list   of   pastors   that   have   fallen   because   it&#39;s   the   last   thing   we   would   ever   want   to   happen   to   us .   How   long   is   that   the   list ?   Yeah ,   it&#39;s   pretty   long   and   it   keeps   getting   longer   because   we   have   to   keep   adding   pastors   that   have   fallen .   And   I   say   it&#39;s   not   a   list   we   delight   in   because   our   hearts   agree ,   because   we   recognize   that   that&#39;s   the   route   that   any   of   us   can   take   because   of   our   sinful   nature .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>13:19</time>
      <p>
          But   along   with   the   fact   that   our   hearts   grieve   and   break   for   these   pastors   and   their   families   and ,   obviously ,   the   glory   of   God   and   the   impact   on   the   kingdom ,   our   hearts   break   for   those   that   have   been   under   their   leadership   and   the   ramifications   that   are   associated   with   that .   And   so   today   we   want   to   probe   that .   We   want   to   delve   into   that   and   the   purpose   in   doing   this ,   friends ,   is   because   we   want   to   be   able   to   be   a   source   of   help   to   those   of   you   that   have   struggled   with   that   and   then ,   just   by   way   of   kind   of   application ,   to   encourage   you   to   guard   your   own   hearts ,   whether   you&#39;re   in   the   pastorate   or   not ,   because   this   sin   of   sexual   immorality   has   massive ,   massive   repercussions   and   ramifications .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>14:02</time>
      <p>
          And   you   could   probably   call   that   list .   You   have   the   tip   of   the   iceberg .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>14:06</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   yeah .   Why   would   you   say   that ,   ray ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>14:08</time>
      <p>
          Because   it&#39;s   not   made   public .   You   know   there&#39;s   a   lot   of   secrets   sitting   around   where   pastors   are   intersexual ,   but   it&#39;s   never   been   made   public .   God   sees   them .   There   are   many   tears   among   the   weak ,   foolish   virgins   among   the   wise ,   bad   fish   among   the   good   and   goats   among   the   sheep   and   they&#39;ve   got   under   the   pulpits .   And   that&#39;s   what&#39;s   happening .   The   straight   gate   hasn&#39;t   been   preached .   It&#39;s   been   a   broad   path   that   many   enter   in   at   because   they   don&#39;t   come   through   the   straight   gate   of   genuine   repentance .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>14:34</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   definitely   a   lot   of   false   teachers ,   false   converts   that   stand   behind   pulpits   as   well .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>14:42</time>
      <p>
          When   you   hear   of   some   of   these   pastors   you   think ,   oh ,   this   is   terrible   and   it&#39;s   the   sense .   The   poor   guy ,   I   hope   he&#39;s   not   being   wrongfully   accused .   And   then   you   hear   he&#39;s   been   in   adultery   for   seven   years .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>14:53</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   those   are   the   big   heartbreakers   when   you   hear   that   it&#39;s   been   something   that&#39;s   been   going   on   for   a   long   time .   You   know ,   mark ,   let   me   ask   you   this ,   because   Ray   made   a   point   there   about   false   converts   who   are   pastors   Is   it   possible   for   a   pastor   who&#39;s   genuinely   born   again   and   saved   and   loves   the   Lord   to   fall   into   sexual   immorality ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>15:14</time>
      <p>
          Yes ,   and   this   is   why   we   need   to   take   heed   ourselves .   When   we   hear   about   somebody   falling   in ,   first   thing   we   do   is   we   check   ourselves   out   right .   When   we   restore   those   that   are   around ,   we   take   heed   lest   we   fall   into   the   same   sin .   Right ,   we   have   to   be   very ,   very   careful .   It&#39;s   been   said   that   every   public   failure   we   hear   about   is   the   result   of   a   thousand   private   failings .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>15:35</time>
      <p>
          God   is   very   serious   about   the   cleansing   of   his   children .   Allow   me   to   share   with   you   a   quote   that   illustrates   the   depth   of   God&#39;s   commitment   to   purity   and   holiness   for   his   children ,   and   then   I   want   to   break   it   down   for   you ,   if   I   may .   Sure   William   Garnell ,   the   Puritan   author .   He   said   God   loves   purity   so   much   that   he   would   rather   see   a   hole   than   a   spot   on   his   child&#39;s   garments .   Now   let   me   break   it   down .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>16:06</time>
      <p>
          God   values   purity   so   much   that   he   would   rather   see   us   with   holes   representing   a   complete   removal   of   sin ,   even   if   it   leaves   us   with   scars   and   weaknesses ,   rather   than   with   spots   which   represent   an   unaddressed   sin   or   impurity .  
      </p>

      <h2 id="handling-the-fall-of-a-pastor"><a class="no-underline" href="#handling-the-fall-of-a-pastor">Handling the Fall of a Pastor</a></h2>


        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>16:28</time>
      <p>
          So   the   idea   is   that   God   is   more   concerned   with   our   spiritual   purity   and   holiness   than   with   the   discomfort   and   the   difficulties   we   might   endure   in   the   process   of   becoming   pure ,   even   though   that   may   mean   and   it   does   mean   at   times   an   opportunity   for   people   to   blaspheme   his   holy   name .   He&#39;s   not   going   to   allow   somebody   who   claims   the   name   of   Christ   to   get   away   with   anything ,   to   have   that   marness ,   to   have   that   impurity ,   to   have   that   vileness ,   to   have   that   stain .   He&#39;d   rather   there   be   a   hole   demonstrated ,   a   complete   removal ,   than   to   have   that   mark   on   that   individual .   You   cannot   get   away   with   anything .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>17:08</time>
      <p>
          That&#39;s   a   really ,   really   powerful   illustration ,   yeah ,   and   I   would   say   that   that   is   in   keeping   with   God&#39;s   jealousy   over   his   church ,   from   the   standpoint   of   what   Scripture   talks   about ,   of   our   God   being   a   jealous   God   in   the   right   sense ,   that   his   heart   beats   for   those   that   he   loves   and   that   he   redeemed ,   and   that   he   made   his   own   and   he   cares   about   his   glory .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>17:34</time>
      <p>
          We&#39;ve   talked   about   this   before   Our   greatest   good   is   the   magnification   of   God&#39;s   glory .   Our   greatest   good   is   that   this   great   and   awesome   God   is   worshiped   in   spirit   and   in   truth   and   in   impeccable   holiness ,   and   so   it&#39;s   with   that   in   view   that   God   wants   his   bride   to   remain   pure ,   and   he   loves   his   bride   so   much   that   he   will   expose   sin ,   even   amongst   its   leaders .   And   so   we   have   to   remember   that .   And ,   oscar ,   there   are   people   listening   right   now   who   have   just   been   snatched   back   into   a   deep   experience   of   pain   because   the   pastor   that   they   loved ,   that   they   trusted ,   who   shepherded   them ,   who   led   and   guided   their   lives   for   many ,   many   years ,   had   fallen   into   sexual   morality   and   they   felt   that   deep   sense   of   betrayal ,   and   it&#39;s   a   real   sore   spot .   I   mean ,   how   many   times   have   we   encountered   people   who   have   said ,   hey ,   I   pulled   out   of   the   church   because   that   happened   Right ?   And   so ,   oscar ,   I&#39;d   love   you   to   speak   to   that   and   just   kind   of   minister   to   our   friends   that   are   listening   today .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>18:36</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   and   let   me   broaden   the   scope   a   little   bit ,   because   the   title   is   how   to   Properly   Handle   the   Fall   of   a   Pastor .   And   to   be   clear ,   a   pastor   can   fall   not   just   for   sexually   immoral   reasons .   Just   real ,   quickly ,   before   I   answer   the   question .   1   Timothy   3 ,   titus   1 ,   it   gives   us   qualifications .   They   should   be   above   reproach ,   respectable ,   honorable ,   self-controlled ,   sensible ,   not   quick-tempered .   They   should   be   lovers   of   what   is   good ,   just   and   devout   they   should   be .   It   goes   into   their   family   life .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>19:06</time>
      <p>
          Elders   should   be   the   husband   of   one   wife   and   have   their   children   under   control   with   dignity .   Their   children   should   be   believers ,   not   insubordinate .   It   goes   into   their   abilities .   Elders   pastors   should   be   able   to   teach ,   counsel ,   exhort   and   sound   doctrine .   They   should   be   of   good   managers   of   the   household   and   care   for   God&#39;s   church .   It   goes   into   their   temperance .   Elders   should   be   temperate ,   not   addicted   to   wine ,   not   violent   hospitality .   They   should   be   hospitable   and   generous   to   guests ,   open-hearted .   They   need   to   be   prudent ,   uncontentious ,   free   from   the   love   of   money ,   not   found   to   be   sorbitant   gain .   And   so   you   know   these   are   qualifications ,   which   means   the   disqualification   of   elder .   We&#39;ve   seen   it   in   the   news   and   I   know   the   reason   why   our   minds   go   to   sexual   immorality   is   because ,   unfortunately ,   it   seems   like   nine   out   of   10 ,   that&#39;s   what&#39;s   happening ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>19:53</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   absolutely .   On   the   other   hand ,   there&#39;s   plenty   of   examples   where   pastors   come   out   to   be   very   abusive ,   both   verbally ,   spiritually ,   over   leadership ,   pastors   who   mishandled   funds ,   pastors   who&#39;ve   lied ,   who&#39;ve   not   handled   their   household   well ,   there&#39;s   so   many   reasons   and   here&#39;s   the   thing .   Sadly ,   I&#39;ve   only   really   called   and   had   a   relationship   with   three   pastors   in   my   Christian   walk ,   and   two   of   those   guys   are   currently   disqualified .   Wow ,   and   so   you   guys   have   a   list .   You&#39;ve   seen   it   both   in   the   news ,   you&#39;ve   experienced   it   personally .   What   I&#39;m   interested   here   in   is- .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>20:35</time>
      <p>
          Interested   personally ,   meaning   that   we&#39;ve   You&#39;ve   witnessed   it ,   yeah ,   yeah ,   with   friends ,   not   you&#39;ve   experienced   it   personally .   You   heard   it   here   first .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>20:43</time>
      <p>
          Breaking   news .   No ,   you   know ,   and   I   like   your   question   Easy ,   because   what   about ?   We   see   it   in   the   news   and   it&#39;s   like   shame ,   shame .   But   what   about   when   it   happens   closest   to   home ?   It   affects   us .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>20:56</time>
      <p>
          This   is   the   reason   why   God&#39;s   word   tells   us   that   you   need   to   take   your   calling   serious ,   Because   people   listen ,   people   go   to   church   and   they   look   to   their   pastor ,   because   they   trust   that   you   have   an   understanding   of   the   gospel   and   that   that   gospel   has   affected   your   life   in   some   way .   And   so   our   response   to   someone   falling   it   can   be   really   hard .   I   know   friends   who   have   never   recovered ,   who   no   longer   call   themselves   Christians ,   and   it   started   with   the   fall   of   their   pastor .   And   so   I   think   there&#39;s   a   number   of   ways   that   we   can   respond .   First   off ,   many   people ,   surprisingly ,   will   immediately   jump   to   deny   or   excuse   the   behavior .   They&#39;ll   say   something   like   well ,   he&#39;s   done   so   much ,   good ,   good ,   or   it   can&#39;t   be   that   bad .   You   know   they&#39;ll   wanna   protect   them ,   and   it&#39;s   hard   because   this   is   the   person   who   has   pastored   you .   They&#39;ve   been   next   to   you ,   they&#39;re   at   your   wedding ,   they   officiated ,   they&#39;ve   been   at   the   bedside   of   a   loved   one   who&#39;s   passing   away .   You   know ,   there&#39;s   this   desire   that   loyalty   jumps   in   and   you   wanna   protect   that   person .   Or ,   like   the   celebrity   pastorism   comes   in ,   it&#39;s   like ,   well ,   I   don&#39;t   care ,   I&#39;m   following   him ,   no   matter   what .   And   then   there&#39;s   the   other   side   of   it ,   which   is   that   we   want   to   discredit   them   altogether .   We   go   from   like   this   everything   I&#39;ve   ever   learned   from   him   is   no   longer   valid .   We   mistake   the   virtue   of   theology   for   the   virtue   of   the   theologian .   Let   me   say   that   again   we   mistake   the   virtue   of   theology   for   the   virtue   of   the   theologian .   And   let   me   put   it   this   way   when   I   I&#39;ve   shared   this   on   the   podcast   before   I   was   physically   abused   by   a   stepfather ,   sexually   abused   by   another   one .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>22:48</time>
      <p>
          There   comes   a   point   in   your   life   when   you   start ,   you   look   back   on   your   childhood   and   that   kind   of   a   situation .   You   think ,   well ,   that   person   introduced   me   to   this   kind   of   music ,   to   these   kinds   of   books ,   to   this   like   hobby   that   I   now   have .   And   there   was   this   moment   in   my   life   personally   where   I   wrestled   with   do   I   need   to   get   rid   of   this   thing   that   I   love ,   cause   it   was   introduced   to   me   by   this   person .   That&#39;s   so   wicked   and   evil .   And   you   come   to   realize ,   no ,   I   can   separate .   I   can   separate   the   good   from   the   bad .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>23:19</time>
      <p>
          And   that   leads   to
      </p>

      <h2 id="dealing-with-pastor-s-sin-and-restoration"><a class="no-underline" href="#dealing-with-pastor-s-sin-and-restoration">Dealing With Pastor&#39;s Sin and Restoration</a></h2>


        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>23:20</time>
      <p>
            the   third .   What   we   need   to   do   as   Christians   is   see   the   beauty   in   between ,   that   the   good   that   person   did   or   taught   is   not   marred   or   distorted   by   the   sin   they   committed .   That ,   ultimately ,   your   true   shepherd   and   your   true   pastor   is   Christ ,   and   the   scripture   is   not   deaf   to   these   experience ,   from   Moses   to   Abraham ,   fallen   leaders ,   hebrews   12   is   something   that   I&#39;ve   clung   to .   Therefore ,   since   we   are   surrounded   by   so   great   a   cloud   of   witnesses ,   let   us   also   lay   aside   every   weight   and   sin   which   clings   so   closely   and   let   us   run ,   with   endurance ,   the   race   that   is   set   before   us ,   looking   to   Jesus ,   the   founder   and   perfecter   of   our   faith ,   who ,   for   the   joy   that   was   set   before   him ,   endured   the   cross .   If   you   are   hurting ,   look   to   Christ   as   your   true   shepherd   and   your   true   pastor .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>24:22</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   oscar ,   that&#39;s   so ,   so ,   fitting ,   exactly .   You   know ,   man   will   always   let   you   down ,   and   we&#39;ve   talked   about   idolatry   on   the   podcast   before ,   and   yet   I   think   that   we   sort   of   block   this   possibility   out   in   our   mind .   That   our   pastor   can   become   our   idol ,   yeah ,   right ,   and   that   you   know   we   talk   about .   You   know   musicians   and   you   know   this   and   that   and   the   other ,   but   your   pastor   can   become   your   idol ,   and   that&#39;s   often   manifested   by   how   we   react   in   instances   like   that ,   you   know ,   or   maybe   even   dealing   with   heresy   or   whatever .   Well ,   it&#39;s   okay ,   we&#39;ll   give   him   a   pass ,   you   know ,   because   you   know   that   unsettles   our   whole   world   the   thought   of ,   oh ,   I   need   to   leave   or   move   on .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>25:03</time>
      <p>
          But   we   deal   with   that ,   with   people   that   are   in   cults ,   right ,   you&#39;ll   present   them   with   the   truth .   You   can   tell   they&#39;re   connecting   that   what   they   believe   is   false ,   but   because   of   the   social   structure   that   they   like   and   the   repercussions   of   the   fallout ,   they&#39;re   not   willing   to   abandon   that ,   and   that&#39;s   dangerous   High   mentality .   Yeah ,   yeah ,   ray ,   pain   makes   people   do   a   lot   of   things   that   can   sometimes   be   unreasonable ,   and   yet   how   do   you   counsel   someone   who&#39;s   dealing   with   pain   where   they&#39;re ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>25:39</time>
      <p>
          just   not   seeing   straight .   In   a   situation   like   this ,   where   their   pastor&#39;s   falling   you   mean   like   today ,   when   you&#39;ve   got   a   headache   and   you&#39;re   doing   the   podcast .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>25:42</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   don&#39;t   remind   me   of   my   headache .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>25:44</time>
      <p>
          He   was   on   a   roll .   I   know   the   last   podcast .   I   had   one   too .   It   keeps   going .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>25:48</time>
      <p>
          I   think   it&#39;s   very   important   to   understand   that   the   gifts   and   calling   of   God   without   repentance .   Romans   11 ,   29, .   We   tend   to   judge   a   man   by   his   gifts .   You   can   have   a   gifted   pastor   who&#39;s   a   brilliant   teacher ,   who&#39;s   into   sin   yeah .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>26:01</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   and   Jesus   said   you&#39;ll   know   them   by   their   fruits   sin .   And   Jesus   said   you&#39;ll   know   them   by   their   fruits .   You   can   have   a   guy   who&#39;s   brilliant   at   teaching   and   his   teaching   is   right   on ,   but   he&#39;s   into   sin ,   and   so   it&#39;s   very   important .   What   we&#39;re   talking   about   means   a   lot   to   me   because   I&#39;ve   experienced   it   35   years   ago ,   maybe   a   little   longer ,   where   my   senior   pastor   was   in   an   inappropriate   adult   relationship   with   his   secretary .   I   suspected   it   and   he   was .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>26:28</time>
      <p>
          The   whole   church   was   built   as   a   pyramid   in   those   days .   The   pastor   was   on   top   and   everyone   was   beneath   him .   That&#39;s   how   it   was   structured .   He   would   go   to   the   doorway   when   people   are   leaving   and   he   saw   himself   as   the   shepherd .   You   know ,   as   the   sheep   passed   him   and   it   was   just .   The   whole   structure   was   just   horrible .   He   said   that   God   had   spoken   to   him .   I   was   going   to   be   his   Judas   and   he   was   very   insecure   All   the   time .   He   was   a   great   teacher   and   it   became   so   uncomfortable   for   me   that   I   left   the   church   and   he   prayed   for   me   and   Sue   as   we   left   in   a   family .   But   that   church   didn&#39;t   know   where   we   were   going .   They   thought   we   were   going   overseas .   We   just   went   across   the   city   to   another   church ,   but   he   didn&#39;t   tell   them   that   we&#39;d   left   the   church   because   he   was   kind   of   so   insecure .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>27:06</time>
      <p>
          Anyway ,   it   was   a   hot   potato .   I   threw   it   up   in   the   air   and   about   six   months   later   it   came   down   on   the   youth   pastor&#39;s   hands .   He   got   exposed .   Someone   saw   him   squatting   down   in   his   secretary&#39;s   car   and   his   secretary   was   such ,   she   was   pretty ,   had   a   great   personality ,   just   different   from   his   wife ,   and   that&#39;s   where   he   had .   This   kind   of   relationship   started   like   that   and   became   very   uncomfortable .   I   remember   I   opened   the   door ,   I   knocked   on   his   door   once   in   his   office   and   she   cracked   open   the   door   about   three   inches   and   said   yes ,   it   was   her   and   him   in   the   office   and   I   thought   this   isn&#39;t   good .   So   the   poor   youth   pastor ,   who   became   the   associate   pastor   after   I   left ,   grabbed   this   hot   potato   and   I   feel   for   anyone   who&#39;s   in   that   situation ,   because   everything   goes   haywire   and   as   people   hurt ,   people   leave   the   church .   The   church   can   often   split   because   it&#39;s   been   built   on   the   pastor   and   it&#39;s   gifting ,   rather   than   watching   him   looking   for   his   fruits .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>28:01</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   I   mean ,   ray ,   I   could   feel   kind   of   that   visceral   pain   that   you   would   have   experienced   back   then .   Even   just   coming   out   in   the   way   you&#39;re   talking   about   this ,   there   are   ramifications .   Sin   doesn&#39;t   just   hurt   you   and   that&#39;s   why   I   constantly   exhort   men   to   recognize   that   our   sins   have   repercussions .   And   it&#39;s   like   man ,   look ,   if   you&#39;re   not   going   to   stop   your   sin   because   you&#39;re   concerned   about   how   it&#39;s   going   to   affect   you ,   have   enough   love   in   your   heart   to   say   this   is   going   to   destroy   my   children ,   it&#39;s   going   to   destroy   my   wife ,   it&#39;s   going   to   destroy   all   the   people   that   I&#39;ve   shared   the   gospel   with ,   all   the   young   people   I&#39;ve   discipled .   It&#39;s   going   to   harm   the   testimony   of   the   gospel .   Honestly ,   when   we   boil   it   down   to   its   kind   of   bare   foundation   and   we   really   think   about   what&#39;s   behind   sin ,   it&#39;s   utter   selfishness .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>28:57</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m   talking   personally ,   I   know   every   time   I   sin   it&#39;s   because   I   shut   everything   and   everyone   else   out   and   it   became   about   what   I   want   at   that   moment   and   that   needs   to   disgust   us .   Can   you   give   us   specifics ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>29:10</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   just   tell   us   the   worst   thing   you&#39;ve   ever   committed .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>29:15</time>
      <p>
          Like   when   I   stole   Ray&#39;s   chicken   last   week .   You   what ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>29:22</time>
      <p>
          Actually .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>29:22</time>
      <p>
          I   wouldn&#39;t   know ,   but   it&#39;s   really   hard   to   know   how   many   we   got ,   because   they   won&#39;t   stand   still .   They   say   sit ,   and   now   they   don&#39;t   take   anything .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>29:30</time>
      <p>
          Ray ,   I&#39;d   love   to   see   you   train   your   chicken .   You   need   a   chicken   whisperer .   Oh   boy   how   did   we   get   off ?   I   was   saying   something   very   serious .   How ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>29:35</time>
      <p>
          do   we   get ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>29:36</time>
      <p>
          off   on   this   thing   On   chickens ,   okay ,   anyway ,   side   note ,   we   should   make   a   new   mug   where   it&#39;s   like   the   four   of   us   and   a   couple   of   chickens .   Ooh ,   I&#39;d   like   that .   Oh   no ,   you   know   that&#39;s   going   to   get   done   now   that   you   said   it .   But ,   mark ,   we&#39;re   kind   of   hitting   this   and   that   as   we&#39;re   going   along .   But   I&#39;d   love   for   you   to   speak   to   that   pastor   who   is   in   that   predicament ,   where   which   one ?   The   one   listening ,   he   knows   that   he&#39;s   on   the   brink   Exhort   him .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>30:12</time>
      <p>
          What   was   that   book   that   we   read   about   pastors   by   trip ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>30:16</time>
      <p>
          Oh ,   Dangerous   Calling .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>30:17</time>
      <p>
          Dangerous .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>30:18</time>
      <p>
          Calling   oh ,   that&#39;s   a   good   book .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>30:19</time>
      <p>
          Glad   you   remembered   that   Great   book .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>30:20</time>
      <p>
          We   read   it   with   a   couple   of   the   pastors   as   well ,   went   through   it   where   these   pastors   feel   like   that   they   are   an   island   onto   themselves .   They   have   nobody   to   talk   to .   Maybe   they&#39;ve   dabbled   into   the   benevolence   fund ,   or   they&#39;ve   done   something   inappropriate ,   whatever   may   be ,   on   all   different   spectrums   of   what   would   be   considered   inappropriate   or   even   sinful ,   and   there&#39;s   nowhere   to   go .   They   just   don&#39;t   know   what   to   do .   They   don&#39;t   know   where   to   turn .   First   and   foremost ,   right   Scripture   says   to   humble   yourself   under   the   mighty   hand   of   God .   Notice   that   there&#39;s   a   call   to   you   to   humble   yourself .   You   don&#39;t   want   God   to   humble   you .   God   knows   how   to   humble   someone .   Let&#39;s   start   with   just   taking   an   honest   assessment   of   where   you   are   currently   at   right .   For   a   lot   of   people ,   a   lot   of   pastors ,   sadly   and   unfortunately ,   the   Bible   has   become   a   textbook ,   a   teaching   book   for   Sunday ,   but   it&#39;s   not   a   blueprint   for   living .   Their   spirit   is   just   removed   from   the   liveliness   of   the   Word   of   God   being   alive   and   powerful .   So   they   approach   the   Word   of   God   as   a   job   and ,   whether   they   realize   or   recognize   it ,   they   have   become   a   hireling   more   than   a   shepherd ,   and   they   don&#39;t   know   where   to   turn .   They   don&#39;t   know   what   to   do .   So   a   senior   pastor ,   especially   his   closest   friends ,   are   outside   of   the   church .   It&#39;s   not   their   associate ,   it&#39;s   not   their   assistant   pastors ,   it&#39;s   some   random   pastor   who&#39;s   too   busy   to   ask   difficult   questions ,   to   hit   them   up   because   they&#39;re   busy   themselves .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>31:47</time>
      <p>
          Pause ,   take   that   honest   assessment ,   look   inside   the   mirror   and   say ,   lord ,   search   me   and   try   me ,   see   if   there&#39;d   be   any   wicked   way   in   me   and   lead   me   in   the   way   everlasting .   Where   am   I   currently   at ?   What   do   I   need   to   do ?   What   do   I   need   to   confess ?   Because   God   will   not   bless   or   fill   a   dirty   cup .   You   can&#39;t .   You   may   fool   people   this   side   of   heaven ,   but   every   private   sin   is   an   open   spectacle   in   heaven .   Vance   Havner   said   so .   We   take   that   honest   assessment   and   then   we   take   that   step   of   faith   to   communicate .   To   communicate   to   people   who   have   run   their   race   before   them ,   and   you   just   talk   and   let   the   cards   fall   where   they   may .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>32:28</time>
      <p>
          But   unfortunately ,   what   happens   is   you   have   these   pastors   who   get   paid   very   little ,   who   don&#39;t   know   how   to   do   anything   else ,   and   so   they   don&#39;t   know   where   to   turn .   They   don&#39;t   know   what   to   do .   That   is   a   difficult   situation   because   they&#39;ve   set   themselves   up   for   failure   and   now   you   have   people   that   are   looking   at   them   as   hypocrites   as   they   should .   I   I   read   a   quote   from   spurgeon   nothing   stinks   more   than   hypocrisy ,   of   course ,   right ,   a   hypocrite   is   a   person   who   acts   different   on   sunday   morning .   You&#39;re   not   fooling   anyone   and   you&#39;re   not   going   to   get   away   with   anything .   So   acknowledge   the   truth ,   don&#39;t   cover   it   up ,   don&#39;t   deny   it ,   because   it&#39;s   going   to   cause   further   harm   and   you   don&#39;t   know   the   hole   that   you&#39;re   digging .   So   confess   your   sins .   He   is   faithful   and   just   to   forgive   your   sins ,   to   cleanse   you   of   all   unrighteousness ,   to   lead   you   in   the   path   that   you   should   go ,   and   he   will   better   take   care   of   the   sheep .   With   your   confession   today .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>33:24</time>
      <p>
          Ray ,   would   you   say   that   the   church   has   in   part   contributed   to   pastors   not   being   open   and   candid ,   because   they   act   in   such   a   way   toward   them   that   they&#39;re   expecting   perfection   and   so   then   a   pastor   just   can&#39;t ,   so   then   they   kind   of   pander   to   that   rather   than   just   being   genuine .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>33:46</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   the   thought   that   came   to   my   mind   when   we&#39;re   talking   about   this   the   pastor   not   having   people   around   him   that   are   close   to   him   that   he   can   share   his   heart   with .   Is   he   married   or   not ?   Has   he   got   a   relationship   with   his   wife   or   not ?   Does   he   share   his   whole   heart   with   his   wife ?   What&#39;s   going   on ?   Where&#39;s   his   walk   with   the   Lord ?   I   mean ,   your   relationship   with   the   Lord   should   precede   your   walk   and   relationship   with   your   wife ,   and   so   those   two   things .   There&#39;s   something   faulty   there .   The   question   that   comes   to   mind   is   when   I   hear   some   pastor ,   a   respected   pastor   with   a   massive   church ,   suddenly   big   news   in   the   world ,   they   just   grab   it .   It&#39;s   great ,   it   feeds   the   flesh ,   it&#39;s   titillating ,   I   think .   Is   it   good   that   this   went   public   or   not ?   I&#39;d   like   it   to   be   kept   in-house .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>34:29</time>
      <p>
          And   yet   David&#39;s   sin   went   public   in   the   world&#39;s   biggest   selling   book   of   all   time .   His   shame   was   brought   right   out .   So   there   is   a   good   aspect .   While   there   are   some   that   would   blaspheme   and   continue   in   sin   as   an   excuse   because   they   see   a   hypocrite   within   a   position   in   a   church ,   it&#39;s   good   that   it   goes   public   because   it   shows   that   the   church   does   see   sin   as   being   something   serious .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>34:49</time>
      <p>
          Wow ,   that&#39;s   good .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>34:50</time>
      <p>
          I   want   to   touch   on   something   Mark   said ,   because   I   think   it&#39;s   really   insightful ,   which   is   it&#39;s   the   idea   of   these   guys ,   lifelong   pastors   who   have   nowhere   else   to   go   in   their   vocation .   It&#39;s   also   their   vocation   has   become   so   much   a   part   of   their   identity   as   a   Christian .   A   lot   of   times   we   can&#39;t   separate   the   difference   for   the   reality   that   I   am   a   Christian   versus   I   am   a   leader   within   the   church ,   and   those   things   begin   to   meld   together   and   what   ends   up   happening   is   your   role .   Your   vocation   becomes   an   idol   for   you   to   worship .   It   becomes   something   to   cling   to   that   you   hide   your   sin   because   you&#39;re   afraid   of   losing .   You&#39;re   so   focused   on   the   idolatry   of   your   vocation   that   you   lose   sight   of   your   sanctification .   And   the   worst   thing   that   can   happen   is   to   surround   yourself   with   leaders   that   share   in   that   same   idolatrous   way   with   you .   They&#39;re   so   worried   about   you   losing   your   position   that   they   create   it   to   be   an   idol   for   you .   

      </p>

      <h2 id="restoring-fallen-pastors"><a class="no-underline" href="#restoring-fallen-pastors">Restoring Fallen Pastors</a></h2>


        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>35:48</time>
      <p>
          You   know   and   I   see   this   all   the   time   it&#39;s   like   a   pastor   will   fall   and   immediately   it&#39;s   like   well ,   how   quickly   can   we   get   him   back   to   the   pulpit ?   How   fast   can   we   get   him   back   to   restoration ?   And   I   love   DA   Carson   does   a   really   good   job   with   you   know ,   somebody   asked   him   like   hey ,   can   a   pastor   be   restored ?   And   he   slowly   responds   to   that   and   says   well ,   first ,   what   do   you   mean   by   restored ?   Yeah ,   define   that .   Restored   to   what   he   goes   first .   Restored   to   the   Lord ?   Yes ,   praise   the   Lord ,   yes .   Through   the   work   of   Jesus   Christ   on   the   cross ,   he   can   be   restored   to   the   Lord .   Start   there .   Restored   to   his   family ,   hopefully ,   as   long   as   there&#39;s   a   willingness   on   both   ends   towards   reconciliation .   That   should   be   the   next   goal   after   restoration   to   the   Lord ,   restoration   towards   a   right-standing   membership   to   the   communion   table   by   the   grace   of   God .   Yes ,   that   is   a   process   that   requires   public   confession   and   private   repentance ,   but   that   can   happen   too .   And   then   he   says   to   leadership ,   not   necessarily .   Maybe .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>36:49</time>
      <p>
          There   are   many   times   in   church   history   when   certain   denominations   and   at   certain   times ,   if   a   pastor   fell ,   that   was   it .   There   was   no   restoration .   Now ,   that&#39;s   not   necessarily   biblical ,   though   some   people   may   hold   that   conviction ,   and   I   totally   understand   why .   Other   people   will   look   at   the   scriptures .   They&#39;ll   see   instances   of   you   know   with   Peter   and   instances   of   leadership   in   the   Old   Testament .   Like   David   we   already   use   as   an   example   where   it   seems   as   though   God   has   this   willingness   to   restore   them .   Like   David   we   already   use   as   an   example   where   it   seems   as   though   God   has   this   willingness   to   restore   them .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>37:18</time>
      <p>
          The   problem   is ,   most   times   we   start   with   that .   We   start   with   this   guy   has   fallen .   How   can   we   get   him   to   be   a   pastor   as   quickly   as   humanly   possible ?   And   what   ultimately   we&#39;re   doing   is   we   create   restoration   as   an   idol ,   like   a   notch   on   my   belt .   I&#39;m   going   to   get   him   back   there .   And   that&#39;s   insane ,   because   if   somebody   walked   into   your   church   and   told   you ,   hey ,   a   month   ago   I   cheated   on   my   wife ,   you   wouldn&#39;t   be   like   I   wonder   if   we   can   get   him   to   be   your   next   pastor   in   three   months .   You   wouldn&#39;t   do   that .   It&#39;s   not   on   the   radar .   And   yet   when   a   pastor   falls ,   that&#39;s   immediately   where   our   mind   goes ,   because   we   have   idolatry   mixed   up   in   the   midst   of   all   that .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>38:00</time>
      <p>
          Wow ,   oscar ,   that&#39;s   really   heavy .   I   remember   when   I   was   a   newer   believer   there   was   a   really   respected ,   renowned   pastor   I   mean   mega   church   and   on   the   radio   everywhere .   I   remember   I   had   set   my   alarm   to   get   up   to   go   to   work   that   afternoon   and   I   thought   I   was   in   a   dream   because   as   I   woke   up   to   the   alarm ,   as   a   Christian   radio   station ,   they   were   talking   about   how   this   pastor   fell   and   I   thought   no ,   no ,   this   can&#39;t   be   real .   So   his   church   wanted   to   enact   church   discipline   and   a   movement   from   the   pulpit   and   it   grieved   me   deeply   that   another   pastor   of   another   mega   church   a   godly   pastor ,   I   do   have   to   add   ended   up   taking   him   in   and   allowing   him   to   begin   teaching   almost   right   away .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>38:38</time>
      <p>
          I   remember   that .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>38:39</time>
      <p>
          And   yeah ,   and   that   was   like   in   contradiction   to   the   church   discipline   that   his   elders   had   enacted ,   and   so ,   yeah ,   we   have   to   be   careful   of   that   and   we   need   to   recognize   that   God   has   a   standard   and ,   Oscar ,   you&#39;ve   already   hit   on   1 ,   timothy ,   3 ,   titus   1 .   So   I   want   to   encourage   those   that   are   listening   to   us   now ,   who   are   leaders   in   churches ,   to   ask   yourselves   are   you   being   faithful   shepherds   to   hold   what   may   be   your   senior   pastor   or   teaching   pastor ,   the   first   amongst   equals ,   we   would   say   in   many   cases ,   and   the   one   that&#39;s   in   the   limelight ?   Are   you   doing   that ?   You   know ,   mark ,   and   I   know   a   dear   pastor   who   took   on   a   church   outside   of   the   state   here .   He   used   to   pastor   here   in   California   and   this   guy   walked   into   a   nightmare   that   kept   unfolding   because   more   and   more   things   kept   coming   out   that ,   oh ,   this   actually   happened   and   this   sexual   sin   happened .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>39:31</time>
      <p>
          You   know   it   was   a   church   that   had   a   pastor   that   fell .   He   ends   up   finding   out   that   one   of   his   elders ,   main   elders   was   living   in   sexual   immorality   for   20   years ,   that   included   members   of   the   church   and   that   it   included   even   homosexuality ,   as   he   traveled   as   a   salesman   around   the   country ,   and   he   was   just   in   a   whirlwind ,   and   a   part   of   the   problem   was   that   leadership   prior   to   him   was   not   dealing   with   this   stuff   in   the   right   way .   And   so ,   ray ,   that&#39;s   important ,   isn&#39;t   it ?   That   leaders   recognize   they   stand   before   the   Lord   and   it&#39;s   not   this   buddy   club   oh ,   we&#39;re   all   fellow   pastors   Like   this   is   integrity .   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>40:05</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   I   remember   the   incident   you   were   talking   about   and   I   was   shocked   too   that   he—   and   I   think   it&#39;s   because   he   was   a   nice   guy ,   very   respected   and   had   a   great   gift   of   teaching .   But   that&#39;s   not   the   criteria .   And   there&#39;s   something   we   tend   to   forget   when   a   man   is   restored   after   he&#39;s   fallen   sexually   seriously   and   publicly   this   is   what   Proverbs ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Ray Comfort</cite>
      <time>40:30</time>
      <p>
          6.32.33   says   Whoever   commits   adultery   with   a   woman   lacks   understanding .   He   who   does   so   destroys   his   own   soul .   Wounds   and   dishonor   will   he   get   and   his   reproach   will   not   be   wiped   away .   And   it&#39;s   so   true .   I   mean ,   I   know   men   that   fell   sexually   40   years   ago   and   I   still   have   that   connection   of   shame   with   their   name .   And   that&#39;s   what&#39;s   going   to   happen .   You   restore   a   guy   in   the   pulpit ,   people   will   be   in   the   back   of   their   minds   thinking   yeah ,   he   fell   through   adultery .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>41:00</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   and   I   deal   with   the   same   thing   and   I   want   to   say   that   I   deal   with   it   despite   my   desire   not   to   deal   with   it ,   and   that   I   don&#39;t   want   to   remember .   I   want   to   walk   forward   and   be   merciful   and   gracious ,   and   not   even   you   know   I&#39;m   a   sinner   as   well ,   you   know .   It&#39;s   just   that   it   comes   back   to   mind   and   I   think   that&#39;s   why   one   of   the   qualifications   is   having   a   good   testimony   with   those   who   are   outside .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>41:19</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   it   says   to   be   blameless   not   sinless ,   but   blameless .   How   do   we   as   a   people   deal   with   someone   if   we   have   inside   information ?   How   do   we   expose   that ?   What&#39;s   the   biblical   approach ?   When   we   see   that   to   not   receive   an   accusation   against   an   elder   unless   there&#39;s   two   or   three   witnesses   and   there&#39;s   no   other   witnesses ,   perhaps   there&#39;s   somebody   who&#39;s   been   abused   themselves   and   they   don&#39;t   know   where   to   go .   They   don&#39;t   know   how   to   handle   it .   How   do   we   deal ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>41:45</time>
      <p>
          with   that ?   That&#39;s   a   great   question ,  
      </p>

      <h2 id="dealing-with-sin-among-church-leaders"><a class="no-underline" href="#dealing-with-sin-among-church-leaders">Dealing With Sin Among Church Leaders</a></h2>


        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>41:46</time>
      <p>
          mark .   Well ,   I   think   it&#39;s   appropriate   to   read   the   text   that   you   just   cited ,   and   that&#39;s   1   Timothy   5 ,   17   on .   It   says   let   the   elders   who   rule   well   be   counted   worthy   of   double   honor .   It   says   fear .   I   charge   you   before   God   and   the   Lord   Jesus   Christ   and   the   elect   angels ,   that   you   observe   these   things   without   prejudice ,   doing   nothing   with   partiality .   And   then   he   adds   to   that   do   not   lay   hands   on   anyone   hastily ,   nor   share   in   other   people&#39;s   sins .   Keep   yourself   pure ,   man .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>42:27</time>
      <p>
          This   is   like   such   a   perfect   exhortation   that   Paul&#39;s   giving   to   Timothy   here   as   a   church   leader ,   I   mean ,   he&#39;s   like   going   down   the   list ,   and   I   love   how   he   ends   with   that .   Like ,   hey ,   in   light   of   all   that   I   just   shared   with   you ,   be   careful   not   to   raise   up   anyone   too   quickly .   Don&#39;t   lay   hands   on   anyone   hastily ,   right ,   don&#39;t   share   in   their   sin .   Like ,   be   wise   to   recognize   a   novice   is   in   the   crosshairs   of   the   enemy   and   is   susceptible   to   danger .   But   I   love   the   fact   that   he   says   look   those   that   are   sinning .   Hey ,   you   need   to   make   that   known ,   right ?   You   don&#39;t   just   hide   sin   in   the   life   of   a   leader ,   you   bring   it   out   and   you   make   it   clear   and   it&#39;s   an   example   to   others   that   even   leaders   are   not   beyond   being   corrected   and   disciplined   within   the   church .   Better   now   than   judgment   day ,   yeah ,   amen .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>43:12</time>
      <p>
          But   I   love   the   fact   too   that   he   pinpoints   and   highlights   that   you&#39;re   to   do   everything   without   partiality .   We   can&#39;t   be   partial   in   these   sorts   of   things .   We   have   to   deal   with   those   things .   And   so   I   would   say   to   church   leaders   that   are   listening   that   man ,   yeah ,   you   have   to   determine   to   do   that ,   to   not   be   partial   in   these   things ,   and   to   do   it   for   the   love   of   the   Lord   and   the   love   of   the   lost   and   the   love   of   that   shepherd ,   right ?   I   mean ,   you   know   Galatians   6.1 ,   mark .   That   talks   about   hey ,   if   a   man   is   overtaken   in   any   trespass ,   you ,   who   are   spiritual ,   restore   such   one   in   a   spirit   of   gentleness ,   considering   yourself   lest   you   also   be   tempted .   I&#39;m   glad ,   oscar ,   you   highlighted   the   fact   that   restoration   absolutely   to   the   Lord   and   immediately .   But ,   mark   the   issue   of   gentleness   in   that ,   a   spirit   of   gentleness   looking   to   yourself ,   how   important   is   that ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>44:05</time>
      <p>
          Well ,   I   mean ,   it   really   can&#39;t   happen   to   any   of   us .   That&#39;s   why   we   are   always   taking   heed .   We&#39;re   always   Like   I   shared   with   you   guys   when   I   leave ,   when   I   go   anywhere ,   when   I   get   inside   my   car ,   I   just   pause   and   I   want   anywhere .   When   I   get   inside   my   car ,   I   just   pause   and   I   want   to   acknowledge   what   just   happened .   Where   was   I   just   at   inside   that   restaurant   or   that   event   at   work ?   I   get   inside   my   car   and   I   just   pause .   What   went   right ,   what   went   wrong ?   Always   taking   inventory ,   always   wanting   to   get   better ,   always   wanting   to   be   a   tool   in   the   master   carpenter&#39;s   hand .   I&#39;m   curious   how   does   this   differ   from   the   Matthew   18   approach ?   Because   you   would   have   somebody   say   well ,   let   me   just   approach   him   privately ,   and   then   he   confesses   to   me   privately   he&#39;s   repented .   Well   then ,   hey ,   we&#39;re   good   to   go ,   let   him   continue   on   with   what   he&#39;s   going .   Obviously ,   there&#39;s   a   distinction   between .   How   do   we   deal   with   that ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>44:54</time>
      <p>
          Yeah ,   the   Matthew   18   approach .   This   really   needs   to   be   understood   because   a   lot   misunderstand   it .   That   is   dealing   with   a   personal   sin   that   someone   has   committed   to   you .   If   your   brother   has   sinned   against   you ,   so   that&#39;s   in   a   different   category .   We   may   principally   apply   maybe   that   sort   of   pattern   in   dealing   with   someone   who&#39;s   publicly   sinned ,   but   that&#39;s   not   what   it&#39;s   talking   about .   Those   that   sin   or   that   go   on   sinning ,   they   need   to   be   addressed   publicly .   When   an   official ,   a   leader   within   the   church   has   sinned ,   he&#39;s   accountable   to   those   that   he&#39;s   leading   and   he   has   forfeited   that   leadership ,   at   the   very   least   in   the   immediate ,   because   he   has   violated   God&#39;s   criteria   for   leaders .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>45:33</time>
      <p>
          It&#39;s   a   betrayal   of   trust .   Yeah ,   and   what   we   just   saw   and ,   mark ,   I   forgot   to   touch   on   this   earlier   when   you   asked   the   question   like   the   whole   witnesses   thing ,   right ,   two   or   three   witnesses .   We   have   to   be   careful   of   that   because   it&#39;s   not   saying   like   it   could   be   one   person   that   was   violated   by   a   pastor .   No   one   else   saw   it .   This   is   talking   about   taking   it   as   fact   right   At   a   certain   level .   But   of   course ,   if   someone   brings   an   accusation ,   you   investigate   that   right ,   you   explore   it .   You   don&#39;t   just   say ,   oh   no ,   you   don&#39;t   have   a   witness   Not   gonna   heed   it ,   does   that ?   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>46:04</time>
      <p>
          make   sense ?   Yeah ,   absolutely .   And   it   reminds   me   when   I   was   at   Bible   College   and   I   took   a   class   that   nobody   was   really   digging .   It   was   the   Gospel   of   Mark .   It   was   a   big   class ,   but   it   got   to   the   place   where   it   was   just   me   and   one   other   student   and   the   professor   just   failed   showing   up ,   just   stopped   coming   to   class .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>46:21</time>
      <p>
          So   I   went   to   those   in   charge   and   I   said   &quot;&#39;Hey ,   I   have   a   problem   with   my   class&#39; .   He   goes   &quot;&#39;Well ,   go   to   your   professor&#39; .   I   said   &quot;&#39;Well ,   that&#39;s   my   problem .   My   professor   is&#39; .   I   said   &quot;&#39;Wait ,   I   don&#39;t   wanna   hear   it .   That   professor   is   an   elder   and   so   I   don&#39;t   want   to   receive   the   accusation .   And   I   said   I   go ,   but   no ,   you   don&#39;t   understand .   I&#39;m   trying   to   do   my .   He&#39;s   all   listen .   No ,   we&#39;re   done   talking .   I&#39;m   not   receiving   an   accusation   against   the   elder .   Yeah ,   and   I&#39;m   like   what   is   wrong   with   this   picture ?   I&#39;m   trying   to   go   to   class   and   my   professor&#39;s   not   going   to   class   and   I   ended   up   getting   a   d   in   the   class   because   I   didn&#39;t   do   my   work .   Wow ,   I   had   no   work ,   do ?   I   had   A&#39;s   in   all   the   rest   of   my   classes   and   I   couldn&#39;t   complain   to   anybody   else   Mark .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>46:59</time>
      <p>
          hug   it   out ,   bro .   Hug   it   out ,   mark .   

      </p>

        <cite>Mark Spence</cite>
      <time>47:00</time>
      <p>
          I   don&#39;t   know   Cal   gone ,   take   me   away .   Give   him   a   hug   Ray .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>47:06</time>
      <p>
          Ray ,   give   me   a   hug .   It   was   a   little   too   close .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>47:10</time>
      <p>
          I&#39;m   sorry .   Yeah ,   too   long .   No ,   mark .   That   goes   to   show   how   dangerous   not   properly   interpreting   scripture   can   be ,   and   so   I   hope   this   ministers   to   those   of   you   listening   who   have   felt   like   that .   No ,   that&#39;s   not   what   it&#39;s   really   saying .   So ,   oscar ,   close   us   out   with   just   an   encouragement   to   those   that   are   pastors   that   have   sinned   and   that   are   genuinely   broken ,   genuinely   repented .   Because   of   anyone   who   should   have   the   most   hope ,   it   should   be   leaders ,   because   they   know   God&#39;s   word   and   what   it   says ,   but ,   paradoxically ,   the   people   that   end   up   with   the   least   hope   because   of   the   devastation   of   what   just   happened .   Right ,   they   seem   to   be   the   least ,   to   be   the   most ,   to   be   extremely   despondent .   But   we   love   these   brothers   and   we   want   to   see   them   restored ,   and   so   I&#39;d   love   for   you   to   just   encourage   their   hearts   in   a   minute   or   so .   Yeah ,   thank   you   Izzy .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>48:05</time>
      <p>
          Well ,   let   me   just   say ,   as   I   do ,   that   let   me   recognize   that   being   a   pastor   is   hard   work   and   it&#39;s   uniquely   difficult   in   this   day   and   age   with   the   advent   of   social   media   and   the   way   that   we   as   pastors   compare   ourselves   and   look   at   the   numbers ,   and   we&#39;re   just   on   constantly   24 ,   seven .   And   often   you   as   a   pastor   can   feel   unknown   and   you   can   feel   like   you   don&#39;t   have   anybody   to   turn   to   because   you   are   the   pastor   and   you   are   the   leader .   And   that   pressure ,   that   tension ,   that   difficulty   of   pastoring   churches ,   of   knowing   the   worst   of   pains ,   of   seeing   the   worst   of   people&#39;s   side ,   of   taking   all   of   those   phone   calls   constantly ,   that   can   weigh   heavy   on   you ,   and   that   exhaustion ,   that   tiredness   puts   you   in   a   place   of   vulnerability   and   weakness   towards   sin .   And   maybe   you&#39;re   listening   right   now   and   you&#39;ve   committed   that   sin   and   you   feel   the   weight   of   that   conviction   coming   towards   you .   And   let   me   just   remind   you   you ,   before   you&#39;re   their   pastor ,   before   you&#39;re   their   shepherd ,   before   you&#39;re   the   one   preaching   on   a   Sunday ,   you   are   God&#39;s   child   and   he   is   offering   you   right   now .   

      </p>

        <cite>Oscar Navarro</cite>
      <time>49:12</time>
      <p>
          You   being   stuck   in   your   sin ,   you   are   enslaved   to   sin .   And   don&#39;t   forget   what   Jesus   says   in   John   8 ,   that   he   has   come   to   set   you   free   so   that   you   can   experience   true   spiritual   freedom .   And   my   encouragement   to   you   is   to   be   like   David   in   Psalm   51 .   Recognize   your   sin ,   that   you   have   sinned   before   the   Lord ,   first   and   foremost ,   repent   of   your   sin   and   then   allow   the   Lord   pray   that   the   Lord   would   restore   the   joy   of   your   salvation .   May   the   Lord   restore   the   joy   of   your   salvation .   Through   your   humble   confession   and   repentance .   He   is   offering   you   spiritual   freedom .   Take   it ,   amen .   

      </p>

        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>49:59</time>
      <p>
          And   I   want   to   say   to   those   pastors   that   are   listening   right   now ,   that   are   pricked   in   their   conscience   because   you   haven&#39;t   been   found   out   yet ,   but   you&#39;re   living   in   sin   Come   clean ,   god   gives   mercy   and   grace .   You&#39;re   not   going   to   prosper ,   like   scripture   says ,   if   you   hide   your   sin ,   but   if   you   confess   it   and   forsake   it ,   you&#39;re   going   to   find   mercy ,   grace   and   compassion   from   the   Lord   and   even   from   others .   It&#39;s   better   to   come   clean   yourself   than   to   be   discovered ,   because   then   there&#39;s   always   room   for   that   question   of   motive ,   right ?   Why   do   you   seem   so   remorseful   now ?   Maybe   because   you&#39;re   uncovered ,   but   you   want   to   come   clean   yourself ,   and   so   we   love   you .   

      </p>

      <h2 id="finding-redemption-in-pastoral-struggles"><a class="no-underline" href="#finding-redemption-in-pastoral-struggles">Finding Redemption in Pastoral Struggles</a></h2>


        <cite>Emeal Zwayne</cite>
      <time>50:37</time>
      <p>
          Pastors   that   have   fallen ,   pastors   that   are   struggling ,   pastors   that   are   hiding   your   sin ,   we   love   you ,   the   Lord   loves   you   and   he   wants   to   bring   you   back   in   his   arms   of   love .   And   maybe   some   of   you   are   even   recognizing   maybe   you   aren&#39;t   genuinely   converted ,   maybe   you&#39;ve   been   a   false   convert .   We&#39;ve   known   pastors   that   ended   up   realizing   they   weren&#39;t   saved   after   they   became   pastors .   Call   out   on   the   Lord ,   get   others   to   speak   into   your   life   and   walk   you   through   the   gospel   and   the   truth   related   to   where   you&#39;ve   been .   Well ,   friends ,   there   you   have   it .   God   bless   you .   If   you&#39;ve   been   impacted   by   this   episode   today .   Let   us   know   at   podcastatlivingwaterscom ,   otherwise   we&#39;ll   see   you   next   time   here   on   the   Living   Waters   podcast .   

      </p>