What the scripture says we are made in his image . We are co-laborers . That is a radical thing to say in this kind of a world , to say that we are made equally . That's where all of the ideas of equality and justice come to play , and I'll get back to that in just a second . I would also look at all of the examples in the scriptures where it does not push women down , but rather it elevates women in a time , in a culture , in a society where women were in fact oppressed . One of the best books I've read on this is Jesus Through the Eyes of Women by Rebecca McLaughlin , and one of her quotes in the book says Jesus doesn't marginalize women , but take women from the margins and draws them to himself . And so she goes on and gives all these examples .
Speaker 1Hagar is a concubine woman slave , and God chooses her to whisper his name . In Matthew , jesus commends the faith of a Canaanite woman after confronting male scribes and Pharisees . In Mark , jesus heals a chronically bleeding woman and he calls her his daughter . In Luke , the good news of Jesus is first revealed to a low income teenage girl from a back country town who becomes a prophetic voice and mother of Jesus . He names multiple women as eyewitnesses to his ministry . He holds up a woman as a moral example against a self-righteous man . He commends a poor widow for giving more than the rich and John . The longest recorded private conversation between Jesus and another person is the Samaritan woman with a sexual history , to Martha . He says to her something very unique when he says I am the resurrection and life . And so , in summary , what Rebecca McLaughlin would say is that all four gospels present Jesus , or I should say all four gospels . Jesus has eyewitnesses to his crucifixion women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection . In other words , jesus lifts up and elevates women from the margins onto equal footing with men .
Speaker 2You guys are very difficult people . Those that listen to the podcast know and understand that . Please don't be difficult and just follow along , because this is something very fun and interesting . Ray , I want you to read these words in succession and quickly Meet feet cheat eat treat . Mark do the same .
Speaker 4Quick Bed read shed head sled , okay , oscar .
Speaker 2It's upside down oh .
Speaker 1Mean bean lean clean . Augustine no .
Speaker 3Did you see , did you think , did you think ?
Speaker 4That was not supposed to work .
Speaker 1Did you really think we're ?
Speaker 3stupid .
Speaker 2Yes , well , that was your mistake , oh man , okay , but you know what ?
Speaker 3You made that up yourself , didn't you ? You didn't read that anywhere . That was self-made . That's why it was lame Listen forget this .
Speaker 2Okay , Oscar was cheating . He probably looked at the card .
Speaker 1I did not Two different ways of pronouncing it . In British English it is generally said as St Augustine , stress on the second syllable , st Augustine . In American English , however , it is generally said as St Augustine St .
Speaker 4Augustine , ah St .
Speaker 3Augustine Ah , in English . So is that guy Vendick the proper ? You know this , but now you know , now you know . Excuse me , is that accent an Arab accent ? Ez .
Speaker 1Yes , I don't know , but yes , by the way , that was a recording of EZ .
Speaker 2I saw the guy's name , his name is Julian McQueel or something I'm like . He needs to tell people how to pronounce his own name .
Speaker 1The way you understand how to say someone's name is you ask yourself the question what did his mother call him ? She would not have been in , she would not have had an English accent .
Speaker 2Well , my question would be . My question would be did his mother , did his mother live in the Byzantine time ? Did his mother live in the Byzantine time ? Was she familiar with Emperor August Constantine ? And did she eat chicken Florentine .
Speaker 1To be clear , the answer is no , because the Byzantine Empire would have come after .
Speaker 2Augustine . It doesn't matter , she could have been reincarnated .
Speaker 4I don't know , I don't want to embarrass you easy . This is very easy and common stuff here .
Speaker 2Is it really Mark it ?
Speaker 4really is . Prove it . I mean , I'll say , how about if I send you stuff that I think would convince you ?
Speaker 1Okay , my favorite moment , but you can send it . Sure . My favorite moment is when we had , uh , albert , dr Albert Moeller on the podcast and we're sitting there having a conversation and out of nowhere , for no reason whatsoever , not prompted by me , dr Moeller goes . Uh yeah , augustine , and I look over at easy and Moeller's still talking .
Speaker 2I look over at easy and easy , like this , which he doesn't want me to say , which confirmed to me that even geniuses can be wrong . That's all that it did .
Speaker 4You are the most humble Arab I've ever met , I agree .
Speaker 2Thank you , but more humble than you even think . I humble , you know . What's been cool , though , is with the whole rhyme theme . My grandson has started rhyming , which I love . We got another rapper in the family . Can that be genetic ? By the way , I have no idea .
Speaker 3A rod of correction will drive us .
Speaker 2That's right If folly is bound up in the heart of a child . Yeah , no , it's been . It's been cool . You know , I was trying to think of like when the world of rhyme opened up to me , because I just had this inclination toward it , to your blessing and benefit .
Speaker 3When demons started manifesting in the world .
Speaker 2Ray , can you please try to rap just a little bit ? No , you wouldn't even try .
Speaker 3No , I've done poetry , but I can't rap .
Speaker 1Little Rachel nice .
Speaker 3Yeah , little Rachel , sweet and nice .
Speaker 2Comes to daddy for advice , climbs and sits upon his knee All his faults .
Speaker 3She cannot say yeah , that was written about what 40 , 50 years ago .
Speaker 240 years ago I had a poem pop into my mind from when I was like eight . This morning Just popped into my mind Mommy is my mommy , daddy is my dad . When I'm good , I'm really good , but when I'm bad , I'm bad . But I , I'm really good . But when I'm bad , I'm bad . But I shouldn't be bad to mommy , cause I know what I will get a spank , a scold and a memory that I never will forget . But when I'm dead , when I'm bad to daddy , he's not really all that mean . He doesn't spank or scold me or make an awful scene . He just says listen , son , I wish you weren't so bad , cause one day , when you're really good , we'll all be really glad . I think my mom had like gone off on me and so I wrote a poem about how nice my dad was . Oh , you wrote that poem . That's what I said when I was eight .
Speaker 3I thought it just popped into your vacuum . I thought that's what you're saying , the vacuum of my brain .
Speaker 2You see , that was very nice .
Speaker 4Merci , my favorite part of that was what Ray the ending .
Speaker 2The end . Ended quick , ended quick . All right , fran , it's time for a cool , classy comment . This is from Isaac and he put in the subject line an absolute lifesaver . I absolutely love this podcast up until a month ago . I'm glad he didn't . I'm glad he put a period there .
Speaker 2I absolutely love the podcast up until a month . Up until a month ago , I was a false convert . I lived in sin pornography addiction , lying to my wife about it . But this podcast showed me the truth about my sin . Wow , I always knew it was wrong and I told myself I was still being sanctified , but I wasn't really putting any effort toward living righteously . This podcast has seriously helped me open my eyes and set me on a path to chasing after the Lord . I've discovered Ray's videos about two years ago and I devoured them like crazy when I first proclaimed to be a Christian , along with Mike Winger and others , but I never had the heart change . I relate mostly to Oscar because of his love for books and I relate to easy sense of humor . Mark has a lot of wisdom that has helped me on my journey and Ray's passion inspires me . Thank you , guys for all that you do .
Speaker 3Praise me . Very nice , that was almost a tear juker for easy .
Speaker 2Always got to hold them back . Yeah , thank you , isaac . Praise God for your walk in victory . This is a sin that has so many men in bondage , and it delights our souls to hear when men have been awakened .
Speaker 4If only there was a book .
Speaker 2I'll start again you ever run a red light . Have I ever run a red light ? Yeah , I've gotten a ticket for running a red light , you got a ticket . Well , because I thought I was going to make it and I didn't . Yeah , you did .
Speaker 1I think I did this morning , but I wasn't paying attention Really .
Speaker 2No , I think I got one of those ones in the mail too . Oh the cameras .
Speaker 3Yeah , wicked the reason I ask that is because I have run red lights and it's been a horror . When I do it , it's like impetuosity grips me . I think I can make this . I can make it . When you get through , you think , man , I could have killed someone . Oh yeah , and I let my imagination run when I wrote an article recently in this Imagine you're running a red light because you just want to make it through .
Speaker 3You're in a hurry and you hit a car .
Speaker 3It's got a mother and two children in and you just see their bloody bodies being dragged out of the car or cut out of the car and then have a court case and see the husband and father in tears looking at you with hatred because you stole from them as precious children , all because of your impatience . Wow . And so what I've done is and I did it deliberately , almost before the Lord is from now on , I am going to put my foot on the brake and not on the accelerator . Wow , that's good , it's a premeditated determination brake , not accelerator , it doesn't matter how much I am , and because of the consequences . And we need to do the same thing with sin . The thing that brought that to mind was that guy saying he just let himself gave himself to sin . There are the terrible consequences Give yourself to sin , you might find yourself in adultery , absolutely you know , destroying the lives of your kids and your wife and sinning against God . And so you've got to make a predetermined , premeditated determination to put your foot on the brake when it comes to sin .
Speaker 3Premeditated determination to put your foot on the brake when it comes to sin , and it starts with the last starts with the heart .
Speaker 2I love that . Yeah , it's that predetermination . You're right , and I think that's what we saw with Shadrach , meshach and Abednego . They had predetermined ahead of time .
Speaker 3That's why they were able to say no , need what ? Huh ? We're all just fist pumping because the guys like that , but you ? See the impetuosity , with more predetermination to sin , from Judas , from Cain , right through scripture it was a predetermination to sin .
Speaker 2God forbid whatever move from impetuosity to determining to sin , right , but yeah , that's why , like I was saying , you know , I think , with guys like Shadrach Meshach Abednego , or Hananiah Meshach and Azariah , or like Joseph , you know , when they reacted in the heat of the moment , when it was bow , you know or burn , they said we have no need to answer you concerning this matter . With Joseph , he took off running . I can't do this thing in sin against my God .
Speaker 3I was going to say , Joseph had his foot on the brake but it was the accelerator in the other direction . He accelerated .
Speaker 2I love that you know that . Just that , that commitment . And but , ray , be careful , cause if you put the brake on too hard and fast you're going to get hit from behind and be thrown into the middle of the intersection .
Speaker 1And then kill everybody .
Speaker 2Kill an entire city . Oh boy , yeah , but no , it's so true . And then also , you always talk about this , ray , be careful of pulling out quickly in an intersection before looking both ways , before looking both ways , because someone could be you always look to the left because some maniac or even an ambulance could be coming , and you just didn't hear the siren .
Speaker 4Yeah , but what if you're in New Zealand and you look to the left and you should have looked to the right ?
Speaker 3A lot of Americans die in New Zealand because they look the wrong way when crossing the
road .
Speaker 2You know what I just discovered when I put this jacket on ? I bought this , remember , when we went on our trip , because I need something to wear . The zipper is on the other side . What's ?
Speaker 4wrong with that ? Well , that's a women's .
Speaker 1Yeah , you're wearing a woman's jacket ?
Speaker 2No , no , I learned that lesson with buttons when I was a kid .
Speaker 3Yeah , I used to do buttons and all the buttons are on the . You got to do the right side with buttons . You guys got it all wrong . All right , and now ? I like this .
Speaker 2That's nice .
Speaker 4Well , you understand that Roxy is a women's brand .
Speaker 2No , when I was a kid it was an Esperit . I think it was Esperit shirt or whatever it was . I ended up finding out . I'm like why are the buns on the other side ?
Speaker 3Because I think they did do that . Those listening by podcast and you're not seeing . We love the pink color , yeah .
Speaker 2Hot pink All right friends . And hot pink all right friends . And now radically revolutionary resources podcast is brought to you by . My comfort is jesus . I'm glad my comfort is not ray . My comfort is jesus who is mike ? Humphrey , my theologian . Oh man , 356 friends devotions . No , no , no , actually , no , actually that's 700 . And what ? What would that be ? 12 or something ? It's not necessary 700 .
Speaker 3I can't even think it's not necessary . 712 .
Speaker 2Yeah , because it's morning and evening .
Speaker 3I couldn't have written that book without your encouragement . Easy , really . Three quarters of the way through it . I'd say I'm up to this and you'd say , keep going .
Speaker 2You can do it Because I gave you the idea you hated me at some point . It's a huge amount of writing to do .
Speaker 1You did a great job . Sorry , quick update . I just found a tag that says made by her for her .
Speaker 2Oscar , don't talk about your pants like that . All right , friends . Oh yeah , don't forget the Living Waters mug and the Evidence Study Bible . All that Living Waters , go ahead . Oscar , that was appropriate for your jacket . All right , friends . Today we are talking about does the Bible oppress women ?
Speaker 3That's fitting .
Speaker 2Do you guys have permission to do you mean ?
Speaker 3How often do I get what ?
Speaker 2The jacket like yours Oppressing women ?
Speaker 3I hardly ever . It's on Really Sometimes yeah , some liberal female might say that , but it's not that often .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah . I hear it from time to time , especially when you're witnessing to women and the subject of abortion comes up . That's usually right . Yes , when they'll go to that .
Speaker 2Restricting freedom . Yeah , but seriously , though , think about that , you know . I mean , there was a time when you would hear the saying and we've talked about it before rare , legal and safe . That's out the window . Not that that like meant anything . You're murdering a baby . Whether you do it safely , legally or rarely , it's murder . But now it's like this overt sort of in your face kind of thing and there's no holding back and it's always being tied now to hey , it's a woman's right . You're suppressing women , mark . What's the deal with that ?
Speaker 4That's become I don't know I prepared for . Does the Bible compress kittens ? It's not gonna end . It's not gonna end . Yeah , I actually have no idea what you asked me , doofi .
Speaker 3He's asking about abortion . Mark , Do you feel strongly about it ?
Speaker 4I do feel very strongly about it because the Bible feels very strongly about it .
Speaker 2I'm talking mainly , mark , about how it's become a thing of like you're oppressing women now because you're telling them they can't murder them .
Speaker 4Yeah , well , that's not the subject . I think that , for example , pro-choice and and what's another word that has been kind of hijacked into the conversation it's not about a woman's rights , right ? What about the woman inside the mother , right ? It's silly use that word loosely to think that it is about a woman's right to kill someone . You think about what our options are with the upcoming election . Right , we do have an individual running for office who is quite bombastic , who is guilty of maybe different things , who's not the best role model . I'm not voting for another savior , though , but I already have a savior that's filled , but what is the opposite that we are looking at ? We're looking at someone who is running on the platform of having the right to murder other human beings . Those are your options . It is a one ticket option here . I want to be able to kill someone . Vote for me . That's what we're talking about . It is absolutely ridiculous to consider that . Yeah , so I would never vote for somebody who is for the killing of innocent babies in the womb , and it was confirmed .
Speaker 2You guys know I can't remember if we touched on this on a podcast , but it was confirmed that at the DNC they actually had a mobile abortion unit . Oh , I remember you guys mentioned that , a mobile abortion unit on the grounds . You know , I mean it again and it has gone from rarely mentioned by certain politicians to in your face and it just shows how brazen and how hardened we've become as a culture . So , yeah , so does the Bible oppress women ? I think the best place to start is at the very , very , very , very beginning of the Bible , and that's in Genesis , right , I mean ? And it's clear , it tells us so . God created mankind in his own image . In the image of God , he created them , male and female . He created them .
Speaker 3I'm so pleased about that .
Speaker 2Aren't you .
Speaker 3Because we'd only be one in the human race if God hadn't taken that initiative . We'd be like the smurfs .
Speaker 2Adam would still be standing there . So what do I do next ? Yeah , but Imago Dei . We've hailed that saying so much because the value of that saying is priceless . You better explain it for new . Yeah , so in the image of God . Man has been made in the image of God and at the very start here in Genesis we see that God could have easily said just man , right . But he created them , male and female . He created them , he made them in his image . Women have the exact same value as men , 100% equal from the very outset . In the Bible , which many claim oppresses women in the image of God , Amen , yeah , does God or does the Bible oppress women ?
Speaker 1I think , first and foremost , we have to . If I'm having that conversation , when I have that conversation with somebody , the first thing I stop before clarifying and going to the doctrine of creating God's image , imago Dei . I think it's important to admit listen , people claiming the name of Christ through history has oppressed women . That has happened , that's happening today as a matter of fact . But the scriptures , instead of endorsing that , is actually the fuel , the weapon , the tool , the truth . We need to oppose that very thing . It starts with doctrine . We are what the scripture says , we are made in his image , we are co-laborers . That is a radical thing to say in this kind of a world , to say that we are made equally . That's where all of the ideas of equality and justice come to play , and I'll get back to that in just a second . I would also look at all of the examples in the scriptures where it does not push women down , but rather it elevates women in a time , in a culture , in a society where women were in fact oppressed . One of the best books I've read on this is Jesus Through the Eyes of Women by Rebecca McLaughlin , and one of her quotes in the book says Jesus doesn't marginalize women , but take women from the margins and draws them to himself . Wow , I like that . But take women from the margins and draws them to himself . And so she goes on and gives all these examples .
Speaker 1Hagar is a concubine , woman , slave , and God chooses her to whisper his name .
In Matthew , jesus commends the faith of a Canaanite woman after confronting male scribes and Pharisees . In Mark , jesus heals a chronically bleeding woman and he calls her his daughter . In Luke , the good news of Jesus is first revealed to a low income teenage girl from a back country town who becomes a prophetic voice and mother of Jesus . He names multiple women as eyewitnesses to his ministry . He holds up a woman as a moral example against a self-righteous man . He commends a poor widow for giving more than the rich and John .
Speaker 1The longest recorded private conversation between Jesus and another person is the Samaritan woman with a sexual history . To Martha . He says to her something very unique when he says I am the resurrection and the life . And so , in summary , what Rebecca McLaughlin would say is that all four gospels present Jesus , or I should say all four gospels . Jesus has eyewitnesses to his crucifixion , women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection Inion , women and eyewitnesses to his resurrection . In other words , jesus lifts up and elevates women from the margins onto equal footing with men .
Speaker 3Did you mention Mary ? I was writing something . Mary and Martha when Jesus turned to him and said Mary , yeah , so good . Yeah , I know Chronological bleeding woman was okay , because it was 12 years . She had that , so it was it is chronological thank you chronologically bleeding . Um yeah , talking of same footing , evolution makes no provision for women . Look at the charts of those bent over hairy ape men slowly straightening up and there's no woman involved . Where does she know ?
Speaker 4those were all hairy women . They were all hairy women .
Speaker 3They were all hairy women . Oh , they were free and liberated .
Speaker 2Pictures of Joseph Smith's wives . Remember the one that looked like Curly ? That was scary . That was the one that looked like Curly .
Speaker 3They said ask in evolutions . Where do women evolve from ? Where do they come in the whole scheme ? What point of time , what millions of years , that suddenly the male find a woman under a leaf or something ? What happened so they could reproduce it ? They don't know .
Speaker 2You know , oscar , I love the fact that you said that women have been oppressed in the past , and so what some will do is they'll go back and maybe they'll highlight some Christian groups or maybe even certain leaders that spoke in a belittling way about women or oppress them or whatever . But again , that's why you go back to the foundation . For example , if someone comes to us and says , hey , you know , look at all these hateful Christians , look at the crusades , look at you . Know what do we do ? We can go back and say , well , let's look at what Jesus taught . Right , this is not Christian . Forget what people do or did or said . Look at what the Bible taught on this subject . And so that's why , yeah , we go back to Genesis in the very beginning and say , look , here's what it says about how God first of all made man and woman . And then you look at the rest of the tenor of scripture and the things you just cited .
Speaker 1And , on top of that , I think what people don't realize that they're doing is they're actually using a standard from the scriptures to talk about women being oppressed , because , as you guys mentioned , the idea of women created equally is a foreign concept to most of human history . And this isn't just a Christian opinion . I've talked before about Tom Holland non-Christian , a renowned historian who wrote the book Dominion . He said that Christianity fueled the first wave of feminism , essentially outside of Christianity . You've got . You've got Darwinian evolution survival of the fittest . The strong are more important than the weak All throughout history . You see this Glenn Scrivener in his book the Air we Breathe . He does a great job of- . The Air we Breathe is the name of the book the Air we Breathe .
Speaker 3The Air we Breathe , the evolution thing again . Yeah , the evolution .
Speaker 1He makes this point that I love talking about , which he says you know , if you went to Socrates and you were like , hey , socrates , everyone is created equally , socrates would have looked at you and gone . No , they're not . Men are bigger than women . The poor are not as valuable as the rich . The smart have more to contribute .
Speaker 3Is this really Socrates ? He did everything in questions , not statements .
Speaker 1Doesn't the smart have more value than the poor or than the not smart . Over and over again , he would have looked at the world and say it's obvious , it's clear by just looking around that we are not created equally . In other words , the standard you're using is a Christian standard . It's Christianity that introduces to the world the idea that men , women , everybody , from every tribe , tongue and nation are created equally , and it's that standard that we use to judge right from wrong .
Speaker 2Mark , what if someone says but the Bible says women are to submit to their husbands .
Speaker 4It does say that , notice . After that though I mean , is it before or after that says that we are to submit to one another out of the fear of the Lord . And what does it mean to submit ? Right , because we do submit to one another . The husband is to unconditionally and sacrificially take care of his wife and love his wife . Right , that that is a representation of Christ and the church . That there's no strings attached . That even if you don't make me a dish or clean a dish , I'm going to be there for you . That's an unconditional , no strings attached . I'm not doing this so that you will now serve me .
Speaker 4You know , the Bible does talk about Eve being a helpmate , and we look at that as being a submissive role . Right , because that's tends to be our mindset . But that is not the case here . As we see in Psalm 33 , verse 20 , it says "'We wait and hope for the Lord . He is our help and our shield . And then this is the same Hebrew word as Eve is the help , or the help meet to the husband . Right ? God created both men and women in his image , as we talked about in Genesis 1 , 27 . But this is often misunderstood . We help each other , right ? I'm a help me to my wife as well . She's not an inferior person to me . I had watched the movie because we talked about it . She's not an inferior person to me . I had watched the movie because we talked about it . Last week , ray , not without my daughter , oh , do you watch that ? So I went back and I watched it through Amazon Prime .
Speaker 2Did you grow in love for me , mark , a lovely Arab .
Speaker 4It made me pray for your wife Talking about an oppressive religion , with Islam and the rights or the lack of rights that women don't have right within Islam . Christianity is the exact opposite . We have Oscar here talking about all of the different roles that women have played inside of the Bible . When , during the time when women were oppressed , that Christianity stood up and said no , this is wrong . Oppressed , that Christianity stood up and said no , this is wrong .
Speaker 4You consider the fact that the first eyewitnesses to the resurrection of Jesus were who ? Women Were women right Now . This also authenticates the fact that the Bible is supernatural in origin , because during that time , nobody would put inside writing that women were the first ones to the tomb . Let's kind of cover that up and brush that underneath the rug . We would say that a man was the first one to the tomb . Why do that ? Well , because the Bible , by and large , is just a historical narrative telling us what has taken place in a lot of different parts and places . So this demonstrates that the Bible is supernatural in origin , because only God can put something like that together , and it also demonstrates the fact that God has elevated women to a place where they belong , and we see that right from what we talked about earlier , imago Dei , creating the image of God .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , you know , it's interesting in that nobody points to inequality being found in certain biological functions in one sense , and that obviously we've .
Speaker 2We've seen the world trying to twist it and switch pronouns and genders and all that insanity , but by and large , no one would say look , a woman is is , you know , superior to a man because she can bear a child and a man cannot carry a child . That is ridiculous , that's inequality , I mean . And so a lot of times , the things that are highlighted are things within the realm of the , of the , you know , of the physical , of the sort of leadership type structure , but it's never , it's never looked at from that physical standpoint . Look , men and women are not equal in the sense that they are different in that they're , they're built differently , right ? So if you're going to say , for example , strength , by and large , generally speaking , men and women are not equal in strength , you have your anomalies , of course , right , but no , men are stronger than women physically , by and large , generally and typically , you know , I will say though watching my wife give birth made me feel inferior .
Speaker 2Yeah , that's wow , oh , big time , right . So , yeah , I mean , you have , you have things like that . But but , ray , that that doesn't deal with essence . It doesn't deal with with the very nature of man and woman . And I think , within Christianity , hopefully , as it's seen today , in the way that men defer to their women and the ways they treat them , hopefully with respect and honor , it demonstrates that we value them .
Speaker 3Amen . When we're born again , we have to learn a whole new language , no Biblical language , because in the world we have preconceived understandings of words like submission . A dog submits . When you're wrestling with a guy , you get him on the back and choke him to death until he submits . But in God's kingdom the word submit is a virtue , not a sin . So good , humility , submission , yeah . And so we submit one to another , always as Christians .
Speaker 1That's so good ? I mean because we do . We read the scripture with man's economy in mind , and so when we think about a leader , we think about superior , greater , paid , the one in charge , the one running the show , the one that gets all the credit . When we think of a helper , we think about you know , um , an assistant , uh , a volunteer , we , we have this economy of scale where one is greater than the other , but that's man's way of looking at that economy of scale . God's kingdom is the upside down kingdom . The first will be the last and the last will be first .
Speaker 1Jesus gives the prime example as a leader . He was the chief servant , right , and then you mentioned helper . That's actually a really great example , because I've had a conversation with a young man who was married and he was having some struggles in his marriage and his concept of what helper meant was distorted and unbiblical In his mind . I mean almost verbatim . He says to me well , she's my helper and so if we ever see things the wrong way , she just needs to submit and I'm just going to choose what I want to choose . And I said to him you have to understand like one that word helper , and that might sound harsh towards women , or maybe it's just uncomfortable that you'd be a helpmate , but remember that God himself calls himself a helper in the old Testament . That's a role that God gives to himself and Abraham and Isaac and Moses and David they never would have thought about God as like all right .
Speaker 1God , today , you're going to help me build my kingdom . You're going to help me take care of all this stuff I don't want to take care of so I can hang out with the boys . That's how you're going to help me , god .
No , they saw God as his helper , as in God . Give me your wisdom , I need your counsel . Help me understand your ways . In that same way , when we see our wives as helpers , we should look at them as . I need your counsel , I need your wisdom to understand the ways of the Lord .
Speaker 2Yeah , and also , along with you know God being referred to as helper in the old Testament , I mean even the new Testament . The Holy spirit is the comforter , or the helper , and that word can be helper as well , and so he's . He's the third person of the triune , Godhead , and so and there's that beauty in in being those that serve I mean that was Christ's whole heart . He didn't come to be served , but to serve , give his life a ransom for many . So the point is it's not innately inferior to serve , it's actually lifted up and men are called to serve their wives in the most extreme sense imaginable . Men are called to lay down their lives for their wives , to love them , as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her .
Speaker 3I don't see the word help made as being derogatory word . I see it . If anything , it shows the husband's a doofus .
Speaker 2Help this boy out .
Speaker 3Can't handle on his own . Help him drive , help him do this . That's so true .
Speaker 4Where would men be without women , right yeah , Ray .
Speaker 2Still in the garden . Say that at a women's conference , Ray , yeah , yeah , Mark . So what do you say then to someone that says , okay , well , we've dealt with the marriage thing . Women submit to their husbands . Well , what about in the realm of women pastors ? The Bible doesn't allow a woman to be a pastor .
Speaker 4Or to reach out , I'd say shut up . No , it doesn't , because there's a leadership , there's a headship that God has designed right . I mean , listen , god's ways are just right , they're just simply correct . And what happens is you have all kinds of issues and problems when you attempt to usurp the authority of scripture . But , yeah , god does not permit a woman to have authority in a biblical sense , inside of the leadership of a church , to be a pastor in that sense . And that's not to say that a woman cannot teach . A woman can't teach other women , right , and women do teach boys , perhaps inside of a home , you know they're her own children perhaps . But yeah , you don't want a woman leading a congregation , because God does not want that to happen .
Speaker 2Yeah , you know I love harmony when who is harmony ? You've never met her . Come on , mark , that's very sweet . You forgot harmony . Harmony , I hope you're listening right now , but Easy loves you . I love harmony listening right now , but Easy loves you ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I love harmony , my sister harmony . Seriously , I love harmony but I cannot sing in harmony . I can't do it . If Sue goes in harmony when I'm in church I follow her . But Ray , you're a brilliant whistler .
Speaker 2I don't understand how you can't whistle . You got your whistle down . This is a really good whistler . Oh boy , there we go , I'm sorry listener .
Speaker 4We're trying to have a show . Why would you whistle like that ?
Speaker 2Don't do that , but you know , harmony between those that understand how things are meant to function according to God's design . To me that's beauty . Right , you know , I mean we're joking around about music , but when you see an orchestra and everyone understands their role and everyone knows when they're to play their instrument , and good , it's beautiful have you ever heard orchestras deliberately playing off key ?
Speaker 3it really is funny . Have you seen a video ? Yeah , you can find online where there's everything is just wrong . Everyone's . Everyone's into it blowing their trumpets and that , but it's just all but we know it's wrong .
Speaker 2Yeah , because there's something in us that says that that doesn't harmonize .
Speaker 3It really looks like today's politics . That's what it sounds like
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Speaker 2It's so true , but real quick , I was going to say that . You know , it's just beautiful when you have that harmony and it's poetic almost when a man fulfills his role , a woman fulfills her role and and and every aspect of life . You know , and that's been the joy of my marriage to Rachel , she's a woman who understands that we are equals but at the same time , god has given us each a role and I've been so blessed to see how God has used her to minister to women . You know her , her joyful mother's ministry , now online she's got between Facebook and Instagram . She's got about 90,000 people that are following and sometimes I'll read her little messages to women and I'll get convicted Is that why you bought that jacket ?
Speaker 2You didn't know . This is why , for this reason , full circle , becoming all things to all women , oscar , come on . So you know she . She is such a great example for you ladies . Listening , I mean this is just kind of a a side note here , but check out , check out Joyful Mothers . I think you will be so minister to blessed and encouraged Oscar , you something was gonna say .
Speaker 1Oh , you guys reminded me . Well , two things , I guess . The first thing is I love that you point the way you pointed out the role of women and men in the church and in the home , and I would just simply add to that that those aren't just random arbitrary rules or laws that God just throws out there . Sometimes we walk around this life and we experience certain rules in certain situations and we're like what purpose does that serve ? God's commands ? Serve a purpose . Purpose , does that serve God's commands serve a purpose . And the roles that he has for us , both in the home and in the church , is meant to be a foreshadowing or a type of which tells us about the relationship between Christ and his bride , the church . And so we are putting on display a type of role , we're a typology . When we play those roles in the church and we play those roles in the home , they serve a very specific purpose . And then you also reminded me when you brought about music instruments . You guys will love this .
Speaker 1In Glenn Scribner's book , again , the Air we Breathe . He does this great example where the air we breathe .
Speaker 3The air we breathe . He does this great example where the air we breathe , the air we breathe Bite , like Roseanne .
Speaker 1He points out he's talking about how , again , some people , under the banner of Christ , have abused women , have done terrible things . And he says you know , being a Christian is like learning to play a new instrument . And while we're learning to play that instrument , we're going to play it wrong . And you might be able to play . You know , you might be trying to play Beethoven's fifth symphony and you're just absolutely butchering it . Nobody would say there's something wrong with that instrument . I hate that instrument . There's something wrong with Beethoven's song . I hate that song . You would say there's something wrong with the person trying to play it and , in that same way , those who claim the name of Christ and fall short of his glory . It doesn't change the goodness and the glory of the scripture , the goodness and the glory of God . It just tells you something about the fallen nature of man .
Speaker 2Right , amen , that's good , and that's why we take it back to that standard , right ?
Speaker 4I mean , if someone is misplaying Beethoven or Bach or whatever , we say no , no , this is how it's supposed to sound , you know , and that , yeah , in fact , we had a young girl come and play Amazing Grace at our church with her violin , oh yes , and when she went to start with her violin , she had to put it in tune and in order to do so , it sounded really , really bad as she played Amazing Grace . She went off on her own and she started to play it and she was asked the question why did you play it different than the way it actually is ? And she said , well , this is the way it actually should be played . The question why did you play it different than the way it actually is ? And she said , well , this is the way it actually should be played . She just had such an ear , knowing the direction and the angles that it should have taken , and , being at such a high caliber player , she was able to change it and make it sound so much beautiful than the actual original .
Speaker 4Wow , yeah , yeah , ray , what are you fumbling with ? Yeah , what is going on with you , ray ? Why do you have such a hard time ?
Speaker 1with life . He made it 37 minutes in , though that's pretty good .
Speaker 3That's miraculous . Okay , look , mark , fix that for me , yeah .
Speaker 4Watch how fast I say I don't know how to do this , but I'm sure I could do this really really fast .
Speaker 2Show him , Mark , I will show you to figure out you , oh boy , All right children as you play , let's get back to business here Do I hear some repentance ? No , Ah , is there any contrition ?
Speaker 1Mark humbled on the living water Is there any contrition for those who can't see Ray once again destroying his iPad and Mark's trying to help him ?
Speaker 2Yeah , we get all kinds of things sent to us . Please send Ray an iPad holder , all right , so let's get back to business here , ray . Galatians 3.28 . Yes , yes , there's neither Jew nor Greek slave , nor free male nor female , for you are all one in Christ Jesus . I mean , if this doesn't demonstrate that women are not oppressed , again , you have to remember , right , the context , the cultural context . In that time , ray , this would have been unthinkable . Yes , oh , no , not that again .
Speaker 3It's just like I am at the moment . It's totally unthinkable .
Speaker 2All right , franz , you asked for it , so Proverbs 31 , woman . Mark , can you comment on that ? The Proverbs 31 woman . If anything is not weak in terms of women , if anything is not unequal , the Proverbs 31 woman .
Speaker 4Yeah , well , listen , it describes her as a businesswoman , a provider , a leader within her household , contradicting the notion here that the Bible restricts women to passive roles , that she is a woman who is able to think through and consider all the areas , all the different avenues that her household actually needs . People would look at Proverbs 31 , as this is the type of woman that I'm looking for . No , it just it demonstrates kind of an overarching idea that a woman has the ability to do a lot more than what culture at that time would say that she actually is able to do a lot more than what culture at that time would say that she actually is able to do .
Speaker 2Yeah , and you look at , you know , you look at the qualities of the Proverbs 31 , a woman , I mean . She celebrated for her wisdom . They highlight her business acumen . Right , she's involved in industry and business , you know , she's hailed in her community . She's a symbol of virtue . I mean , these things are again a demonstration that women are not what men are claiming they are in this world today , in the word , I have something to say .
Speaker 3Oh here we go . Yeah , it's a great thing to do to take Proverbs 31 and liken it to the church that woman of virtue clothed in purple . It really is a type of the church with a submission to her husband and we're submitted to Christ . It's a great study , yeah .
Speaker 2Amen and then Mark . Something that I love that you do is that you go to the root of it , when oftentimes atheists and unbelievers are saying that you have a very funny looking face .
Speaker 1By the way , this is recorded now for Living Waters TV .
Speaker 2You can see the panic on Mark's face . But no , but right . We go to the root of it . Like yeah , the Bible oppresses women . You typically ask the question what's wrong with that ?
Speaker 4Yeah , right , so that's the atheistic worldview . What would be wrong within an atheistic worldview if women were oppressed ? Right ? We're just a matter in motion , and if we're just matter in motion , then nothing really matters , right ? So , from good to you , by way of the zoo , is the whole picture inside the head there ? What , according to your worldview , what is wrong with doing anything that our society says that is wrong ? You can say that it doesn't benefit a society , but all you're saying is it doesn't benefit a society . You're not morally telling me , though , why something is wrong . You have to borrow from the Christian worldview in order to say anything is wrong . You're telling me what is , but not what ought to be .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah , and again , within the whole paradigm of survival , of the fittest , and you know , those that are the strong , basically , that's the fairest , really , because they've got more meat on their bones to carry them through .
Speaker 2Good cooks , yeah , but but by that whole paradigm . In reality , it's like what's wrong with that ? I mean , that's what should be happening , and you could apply that , of course , racially as well . Of course we know we're all of one blood , but but the race , the whole race realm , that's often elevated . What's wrong with that ? Like what's wrong with one nation subjugating another nation if they're stronger ? That's how we , as you know , human beings at the top of the evolutionary chain got here .
Speaker 3And that's what Darwin actually took that to the nth degree . He was a racist . Yeah , he believed that , that there were races that were weaker , right .
Speaker 1Yeah , he was involved in the eugenics movement .
Speaker 2Right that there were races that were weaker , right , yeah , he was involved in the eugenics movement , right ? So , oscar , what do you say to the man who has gone sideways on this because he's misinterpreting scripture , with his wife , with his daughters , maybe some men even with their moms , right , like , who are you ? You're a woman . You can't tell me . What do you say to them from a biblical perspective ?
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah , yeah . I'd go back to what I said earlier , which is that the Lord has you have to remember that when you disrespect , when you dishonor another person , ultimately you're disrespecting , dishonoring the image of God in them , and so your fear of the Lord should humble you to treat the women in your life with gentleness and respect and to heed their wisdom and counsel for you , because they are given to you from God for your good and for his glory . And so , ultimately , why ? Why is sin sin in any situation ? Because , first and foremost , it's sin against God . And so , man brother , repent , and , in your repentance , turn to the women in your life and tell them how sorry you are and buy them flowers . And buy them flowers if they like flowers , chocolates are in and out no , we wouldn't go that far much .
Speaker 2Now I hope you heard that men buy them flowers , not flour , so they can bake you a cake . Please remember that Burn .
Speaker 3Is that my accent ? You're mocking my accent . No , no .
Speaker 2No , of course not .
Speaker 3I would never do that , because I did the American accent .
Speaker 2I said flowers , flowers .
Speaker 1No , yeah , that's so good , yeah , no , yeah .
Speaker 2Yeah , no , yeah oh no . But you know you think about Peter also talking about how men are to dwell with their wives with understanding , and also that we're to give deference preference to the wife as a fellow heir of God's kingdom . I mean , that kind of language in and of itself , again , was so foreign .
Speaker 3You know there's enough rope to hang yourself if you are a woman's liver and you open a Bible and look for portions of scripture to confirm what your worldview is about Christianity . But if you read it in truth and with a humble heart , it all makes sense .
Speaker 1Yeah , yeah . It's also important to remember , before she's your wife and before she's your daughter , before she's your mother , she's God's daughter . Amen , that is that . And their father is looking over you and considering how you honor and respect the women in your life .
Speaker 2Amen . There you have it , friends . You heard it here on the Living Waters podcast . Yes , be nice to women .
Speaker 3In conclusion .
Speaker 2That's right . Be nice . All right , friends . Thank you for joining us . Don't forget my comfort memories , ray . My comfort is Jesus . You'll get morning and evening devotions from that . The Living Waters mug yes , it's still around . And don't forget the evidence study Bible All at livingwaterscom . Remember , comment , send us your thoughts and accusations and all kinds of things toward Oscar , mark and Ray at podcastlivingwaterscom . Thank you for joining us , friends . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast , where we have no idea what we're doing .