Some people are so poor that all they have is money right that they don't have what really you need inside life , and that is Christ . Christ is who we need . Who was it ? Somebody said , he who is rich in this world may be poor in the next . Oh , it's Thomas Watson . He who is rich in this world may be poor in the next because you do not properly put money in its proper place , right . Wealth can blind us to our true need . Randy Elkhorn said when Jesus warns us not to store treasures on earth , it's not because wealth might be lost , it's because wealth will always be lost . Either it leaves us while we live or we leave it when we die , and there is no exception .
Speaker 2The band is back together again .
Speaker 3See , I had to do something different because we started off originally and I did a beautiful opening and it got messed up so I had to restart . But in my original opening .
Speaker 4Should we start again , because that got messed up too In the original ?
Speaker 3opening the last part of that beautiful song was Together again and I was asking Oscar Navarro , because he strikes me as the kind of guy who would have been into that kind of music what do you call that , oscar ?
Speaker 1That's not music .
Speaker 3Is that like considered death metal ?
Speaker 1That's mariachi .
Speaker 3But like kill your chicken and whatever .
Speaker 2The way you sing it , it's definitely death metal .
Speaker 3But who decided one day , right , I mean , singing was melodic and beautiful . And then someone one day decided to just go psycho . It's called death metal , right ?
Speaker 2I think you're referring to death metal . There's also like screamo yeah , which confessionally I mean I was into all things punk and alternative rock .
Speaker 1I knew it . Does Rachel try to get your kids into that ?
Speaker 3Yeah .
Speaker 1She's still into it .
Speaker 3She gets up in the middle of the rock top , isn't this just ?
Speaker 4punk rock from the 1980s .
Speaker 1Yeah , but they this is different . This is insanity . I think so .
Speaker 3But it makes no sense to me .
Speaker 1It's insane . You can't understand anything .
Speaker 4I can't understand it all , unlike rap .
Speaker 3What I can't understand is why you guys are listening to it . That's Oscar stuff . Speaking of bands being back together again yeah , we are back together again . We did one without Oscar with our good buddy .
Speaker 4Nathan W Bangham . Oh , thank you .
Speaker 3And then you guys did one without me , with Erwin Lutzer , oh yes , which I was extremely jealous about , yeah , that was wonderful , that guy is a rock star .
Speaker 4How'd that go with him ? By the way , the highlight the guy is absolutely brilliant a deep theologian , great sense of humor . He was serious through the whole thing , and then Oscar .
Speaker 1Oh , the ending .
Speaker 3The .
Speaker 4Oscar , at the ending we were both we were going with the flow and being serious and theological with him because he's a great man of God . And then , right at the end , oscar says well , thank you for joining us . And you've sort of seen his face . It was like what .
Speaker 3It's like a deer caught in the head . And I had to say that's how easy We'll have to get him back to hear the real thing , the good thing . Speaking of bands , little band trivia for you guys . Well , let me first ask , take a guess , who would you say is the oldest still existing band touring band ?
Speaker 1Elvis Presley .
Speaker 2Touring band oh , that's great . I mean , I think , the Rolling Stones .
Speaker 4Yeah , but they died about 15 years ago . Just propping them up . Yeah , the Rolling Stones is probably still out there . Yeah , but they died about 15 years ago . Just propping them up . Yeah , the .
Speaker 3Rolling Stones . I had them on here . I can't see them anymore , but yeah , they are one of them
. You have the Eagles . Are they still around ? Yeah , the Eagles , 1971 , so 53 years . Aerosmith , 54 years .
Speaker 2The Commodores , zz Top , oh , zz Top 69 , 55 years , the who who , 60 years . They don't count , though , because the drummer died .
Speaker 3So you guys , no , no , I mean , you have some band members that died .
Speaker 4You guys know about these groups .
Speaker 3I do , I know about . Yeah , I mean I know the names , I know all of them . And then number one , the Beach Boys . They the Beach .
Speaker 4Boys , they're not 61 , 63 .
Speaker 3Most of the band members Are like 80 , 80 , 81 . Now that's wild .
Speaker 4That's insane . They should just retire . So you've got great memories Of their music .
Speaker 3But you know , I'm like there's no way I actually looked up the Beach Boys .
Speaker 1They are touring , they're gonna be in our area ? Do they have walkers and stuff on the stage ? Yeah , ventilators , I can just imagine .
Speaker 3But are there the Ventilators ?
Speaker 1That's terrible . They're the .
Speaker 3I wish they all can be California right , Is that Beach Boys ? California what I went . Sam can be California . It's them right . Yes , absolutely .
Speaker 4Yeah , it's as Californian as you can get the sound , it's just beautiful , but you do have to admire guys that are still going .
Speaker 3I mean , are they ?
Speaker 2singing about like Medicare now or what , but they've got nothing else to do easy . What do you do ?
Speaker 4when you get old and the dog takes you for a walk or you go on a tour and people still try and scream , but it's cool .
Speaker 3I mean they're still together hanging out touring , you know .
Speaker 4They all hate each other .
Speaker 3That was the Beatles . They really did end up . Oh , did end up Ono . Yoko what's her name ? That was Yoko .
Speaker 4Ono , it's just a sad story , but they , they toured . Imagine being in the same room with four , four guys like you guys for touring for years and not getting out of a hotel room because they couldn't oh , I know you have to have really good chemistry .
Speaker 2There are bands that have been together for that long that have been together for that long that have never broken up .
Speaker 3Yeah Well , these guys right . Yeah , all right , friends . Time for a cool , classy comment . Ooh , we got one from Ray's Homeland . Hi , from Christchurch , new Zealand . Hey , kim , you're not doing a New Zealand accent . I hate the pleasure of meeting Isaac , mac and Oscar when they visited Christchurch last year . Thank you so much for the podcast giveaway package . My kids love the Ten Commandments coins and Bible tract . My youngest son loves the mug and walks around the house constantly chanting yep , yep , right , right , right yep , yep , sorry about that .
Speaker 3I love the evidence study Bible and just finished Ray's autobiography . Ray , I would occasionally walk past Speaker's Corner in Christ Church when I was young and watch you preach . Sadly , I would occasionally walk past Speaker's Corner in Christ Church when I was young and watch you preach . Sadly , I remember thinking what a weird thing for a Christian to do and would move on . Your message didn't capture me then , but the Living Waters podcast caught me three years ago . Listening to your message on true and false conversion was life and faith changing . I've since been baptized . I'm yearning to listen to and read scripture . I'm teaching and encouraging my kids and find myself , like before , wanting to evangelize to friends , family and strangers .
Speaker 4That's wonderful Thank you so much .
Speaker 3God bless you all sincerely . Chris Coxon . Praise God . Ray , does that touch you ? Like hearing of someone from your homeland ?
Speaker 4No , I don't care , I don't care it does . It's very moving , I'm just . I love getting stuff like that . We pass it around when something comes .
Speaker 3Oh , big time , Because it so encourages us . But again , you know we've mentioned this , but here's another example Someone that used to hear you preach mocked you or wrote you off , and then now they've come to the Lord . So it's wonderful . Praise God . Thanks , chris , brother . God bless you . It was a blessing meeting you and if you're ever here in California , come by and see us . Mate . And now a radically revolutionary resource this podcast is brought to you by the Tract Sample Pack , one of our favorites here . Why do we like it , ryan ?
Speaker 4It's the Tract Sample Pack . That's why it's packed full of tracts . That you can sample . They taste terrible .
Speaker 2Yeah , we're trying to sell them , Mark .
Speaker 3Don't say that Edible , we still do need an edible track . Do you know ?
Speaker 4we made a mistake with the track sample pack about four years ago . Hey , we sold them for $3 a pack , and we didn't realize that that's how people were buying their tracks . And so Mark and his whole family had to get together and put together , not just my family , it's friends .
Speaker 1They hate me now and make up these track packs and we realized what was happening .
Speaker 4People were buying them not as a sample , but just to get all these tracks to give out . They were so cheap , so we had to put the price up , which is still a good price , but it means that Mark's got other things to do at home now .
Speaker 3Yeah , friends , check it out . Track sample back . This is so that you can know what tracts we carry , so you can start getting them and giving them out . And you can carry them . Don't forget the Living Waters mug . Things taste better in it . The Evidence Study Bible Ray Comfort's thoughts packed in tightly , nicely , beautifully , and his eyes are closed .
Speaker 4Things taste nicer in our mug . Is it False advertisement ? There's a lawsuit . I had some coffee , just kidding , it was horrible .
Speaker 3Don't forget to check them out all . Check them out all , friends , our friends at waterslivingcom Comcom .
Speaker 4Oh , that's great Livingwaterscom . Are you sure you want to do that yeah ?
Speaker 3All right , friends . Today we are talking about the potential spiritual dangers of wealth and prosperity . Yeah , you know the extremes . The pendulum , I wonder when the first pendulum was invented In time . Do you like pendulums ?
Speaker 4Yeah , they used to have them on the big grandfather clocks . Oh yeah , Going back and forth Pendulums .
Speaker 3Yeah , the pendulum swings , doesn't it , between seeing wealth or financial blessing or prosperity as unspiritual or sinful or carnal , and then the other extreme of the pendulum is word , faith , movement , prosperity , gospel and the whole realm of get what you can , because God wants you to be rich and prosperous . So , however , I would say we are living in a day and age where , if there was ever danger , it's probably greater than ever before , because affluence is so much more accessible . I mean not just having things , but things that , like , really make your life unbelievable , like cars that drive you now .
Speaker 3Yeah , like you know , I mean again , you think of kings back in the day when they were rich . It's kind of cool , you know , people carry around on whatever .
Speaker 2You would say that that's the most , that's the most Lebanese thing you've said in a really long time .
Speaker 4Please , please , let me down , get out of here .
Speaker 3But whatever luxuries they had , you know that money could buy . I mean a king . Compared to how the average person lives today , would be a pauper . You know what I'm talking about . I mean in terms of like luxuries back 400 years ago .
Speaker 1I mean , it's like what in the world ? I saw a homeless man yesterday that was begging for money on the side of the road and he had a skateboard under his arm and a cell phone . Yeah , and a cell phone , that's exactly right .
Speaker 3So true , yeah , so with that obviously comes some spiritual danger in terms of the different directions we can go in because of our trust and wealth and so forth , and so I want us to talk about that today . What are some of those dangers and how can we navigate them ? But let's kick it off with just thoughts on first of all is it sinful to be blessed ? Is it something we should feel guilty over ? Because I have to admit , there have been times where I have felt that , where I've thought , lord , should I have this ? I mean , should I eat this meal at this restaurant ? It's going to cost more money than I would normally pay for a meal , how much ?
Speaker 3Where Should I have this possession ? Should I live in this area ?
Speaker 4Whatever stuff like that that we Should I have a father-in-law like this ? No , no .
Speaker 1Too much . No , absolutely not right . I mean , the whole idea is do you have the riches or do the riches have you ? Where are you at ? In the midst of it , I have a friend who I had just gotten back from ministering in London and he said hey , put on a nice sports coat , I'm taking you out to eat .
Speaker 1And put on a nice sports coat . I'm taking you out to eat . And I went okay , yeah , nice , love it . And next thing I know we're pulling up to a private jet . He's putting us on this , me , my wife and one of my daughters . We get on this private jet . Did you say in London ? I just landed ?
Speaker 2from London , so I was like jet lagged .
Speaker 1I was exhausted and we get on this private jet and he flies us up to this really nice steakhouse . That was like $1,500 for the five of us I think five , six of us . That was just the tip . And then he took us to a concert and then we went back onto the private jet and we flew home all within a matter of just a few hours .
Speaker 1He's the first one to tell you that some people are so poor that all they have is money , right that they don't have what really you need inside life , and that is Christ . Christ is who we need . Who was it ? Somebody said he who is rich in this world may be poor in the next . Oh , it's Thomas Watson . He who is rich in this world may be poor in the next oh , it's Thomas Watson . He who is rich in this world may be poor in the next because you do not properly put money in its proper place . Wealth can blind us to our true need . I remember I was asking my son I said if you had $100 million , what would you do with it ? And he said well .
Speaker 1I would Living water stock . Slash donate had a hundred million dollars , what would you do with it ? And he said well , I would pay off your guys' house and I'd buy a house for all of my siblings and a car .
Speaker 1I said , man , that's why you don't have a hundred million dollars because sometimes you can come across as you are God , right , you are the provider for people , that you are the savior of poor people , right and no , it is good to struggle , to work through things and to have things be tight and to wonder where your next meal is to come from , but to never really worry where your next meal is coming from . So , for me , I think wealth can really blind us to our true need , and that is just . We need Christ , and if you have all of the world , you can't have all of the world . Where'd you put him ? In my universe ? In my universe .
Speaker 4Oh , good thinking .
Speaker 3That's right .
Speaker 1So that's just the idea , right . That's a real , true danger of being rich . What are you going to ?
Speaker 3do with that money .
Speaker 3Well , mark , I love the fact that you mentioned that brother . I know him and what's amazing about him and others that I've known who are affluent and love the Lord is that they really are not possessed by their riches . And the reason why you know that is because of their overwhelming generosity and knowing their character you know that if they lost it all not that they wouldn't , you know , obviously experience trial and some maybe emotional struggle , but you know they're going to be fine . You know they're not going to walk away from the faith , they're not going to abandon Christ and it's because you see their character beforehand . They walked with the Lord when they didn't have any affluence and then they're going to continue to and their character has continued through it .
Speaker 1I remember I mean he's got a nice car and I .
Speaker 2It's really awkward sitting here hearing you guys talk about it .
Speaker 1Talk about it , but please continue . He invited me to drive it and I was like I don't want to drive your car , I go , I'm scared to death of it . He's all , don't worry about it . I mean , I don't care what happens to it . If something happens to it , besides the fact that it's insured , he goes . It's just a possession and it doesn't possess me . I possess it , I love that I love that guy .
Speaker 3Give him my loving phone number and address you know , I have often thought of how cool it would be to come into a lot of money , millions and millions of dollars , but no one knows , right . You never let anyone know and you give , but no one even knows you're the one giving to them . How cool that is . You know , and I love to see God orchestrate those sorts of things in keeping with prayer People that are praying for God's provision . They don't know who it's from , it's provided and the Lord moved you to bless them .
Speaker 2I'll tell you what if I came across $100 million today , I'd quit today .
Speaker 3But then I'd show up tomorrow as a volunteer . You don't need that to be gone from here . I appreciate that . We'll take care of that , Oscar .
Speaker 2You guys are hitting it on the head . I think wealth is a major danger . Side note I completely prepared for the wrong podcast . I thought we were talking about the health and wealth prosperity gospel .
Speaker 3My notes are completely off .
Speaker 2So , whoops , but you're absolutely right . I mean , wealth and comfort can be a snare , and it's a very dangerous snare , and it's a snare that sneaks into our lives and slowly starts to change us . And I think that one of the things that we have to recognize is that , while wealth and comfort is not sin in and of itself , it's also a sneaky snake in our lives . It tends to manipulate us . Nobody ever thinks they're the richest person in the world or they're overly wealthy , because they're always looking at the person above them .
Speaker 3Nobody thinks that they're- .
Speaker 2Except Elon Musk . Except Elon Musk , that's right . Nobody thinks that they lack generosity , because they can always point to people who give less than them , and so , in many ways , wealth is one of these idols . Well , money in itself isn't an idol , but money empowers other idols the idolatry of comfort , the idolatry of recognition . And we all can think of that young ruler who approached God , who approached Jesus , and I think , outwardly , everybody would look and go yeah man , that's a guy . Look at him . He's following Jesus , he's righteous , he's got all of his morals in check , he's probably a very generous person . And Jesus asks him to give up the one thing he couldn't all of his possessions , all of his possessions . And so what does that tell you about wealth ? I think , again , it's a sneaky thing . I'll tell you personally .
Years ago , way before I started working at Living Waters , I was in the finance industry . I had my own business and things were going really well . I was making six figures by the time before I turned 18 . I was on my way to making a half a million dollars a year when I left my secular job to come to work at this ministry . During that time , I won at work a Rolex watch , and when I first got it , I was like , oh you know , this thing isn't that important to me , Because it really wasn't . When I first was given the watch , it wasn't that important to me . A few years later , I bought myself a nice car . You know , I felt like I deserved it . I worked really hard and I got that car and again it was like this car isn't . I was a believer already . This car isn't that important to me .
Speaker 2But here's what I realized . Actually , I went out with some friends and I'm a young , single guy and I'm hanging out having a conversation with this young lady and she goes you're pretty successful , aren't you ? And I go what do you mean ? And she goes well , I can tell . And in that moment I can tell in my heart I like this , I like that . A part of my identity is now in my success . And what I realized in that moment is that I began by owning my things , and my things began to change my identity . I started to identify with the objects that I had in my life , and so within a couple of weeks , I got rid of the watch , I got rid of the car , because I just realized this is not good for my soul Were you a believer , I was a believer .
Speaker 3Oh , you were a believer .
Speaker 2Yeah , I was absolutely a believer . But that's the point . Is that wealth and prosperity , it's sneaky , it sneaks into our lives and the scriptures tell us the rich will become poor and the poor become rich . Jesus came down and identified with the poor . What does that tell us ? There's a blessing in poverty . There's a blessing in meekness that we tend to blind ourselves to when we increase in comfort , because the meek and the poor , they have a clear understanding of their dependence on God . And often what happens with wealth and comfort is that we begin to depend on the size of our checking account , on the size of our retirement account , we begin to get comfortable with the comforts that we've stored up for ourselves rather than the comfort that we have in Christ .
Speaker 3Well put , oscar . Yeah , ray , the whole issue of idolatry in connection with wealth and prosperity . I mean Jesus talked about that in Matthew , where he talked about you can't serve both God and mammon , or possessions or riches or wealth , because you're going to either love one or hate the other . You can't serve them both .
Speaker 4Right , I noticed that Oscar mentioned comfort six times as he was speaking and I've got to say that no one's ever noticed my watch . What do you pay for that watch ? $12, . It was at Walmart .
Speaker 3I think so much right .
Speaker 4Anyway , you quoted Matthew 6 , 24 . I want to read it because it contains two words that can overlook so easily . No man can serve two masters , for either he hate one and love the other , or else he'll be loyal to one and despise the other . You cannot serve God or man . And so twice Jesus mentioned the word serve Right , and the Greek word means to be enslaved to , to obey , to be devoted to . In other words , when it comes to the law , we're to love him with heart , mind , soul and strength . And if we love money , we love it with our heart , mind , soul and strength . We devote ourselves to it . We become a slave to it . When Satan offered Jesus the world , he said just bow down and worship me . Jesus said you shall worship the Lord , your God , and him only shall you serve . Same word again Put the priorities where it should be . I'm going to share something very personal with you guys .
Speaker 2Here we go , story time with Rick .
Speaker 4I have been on a restricted diet for two years , I found out I was some allergy or something to wheat , which means you can't eat anything and not bread , and that horrified me , because I love bread , I love toast . And then Sue found there's an Ezekiel bread that's made of flax , which sounds terrible , but it worked , and so I have for the last couple of years had this toast that I . You should see the ritual I go through when I make my toast I put the bread in the toaster , it comes up and I wait for it to cool . Then I put butter on it after it's cooled because I want the butter to melt . Then I get honey and drizzle honey around the edges and then one dollop in the middle that comes up in a little pile so I can get that last . Then I get the knife and spread the butter over the honey so it doesn't dribble over the edge as I'm walking along . Then I put it on a plate and I take it across the other side of the room and sit on my chair .
Speaker 4I did this . I do it every night and you enjoy the bread . Oh , you wouldn't believe it . I just absolutely love it it tastes good .
Speaker 4I'm so thankful , I'm just Tastes really good . Anyway , I sat down in my Lazy Boy recliner , took my toast and saw a sight I'll never forget . It was upside down . No , a fly landed on it and it couldn't get off because it was stuck in the honey .
Speaker 4So , if we serve money , we build a little sweet kingdom . You can be sure that a fly is going to land on it . That's what happened , proverbs 11 , 28 . He who trusts in his riches will fall , but the righteous will flourish like foliage . And you see the rich man who built bigger bands , bigger bands . See what ?
Speaker 3he did today Bigger bands .
Speaker 4He built bigger bands and a fly landed on it . God said tonight your soul is acquired of you full Same with Ananias and Sapphira , built their little kingdom because they loved money and God killed them and a fly landed on them . So make sure that you get your priorities straight . Love God that gave you life and don't love money . It's something you use and shouldn't use you .
Speaker 3Mark that saying love God and do whatever you want , tozer . Yeah , mark that saying love God and do whatever you want , yeah , tozer . Yeah , I love that Because I mean you apply that right to riches and if you're loving the .
Speaker 1Lord yeah . So the caveat has to be there , right . Loving God yeah . So people like to just jump to that last half of that . I can do whatever I want . Well , are you loving God ? Yeah , I want . Well , are you loving God ? Loving God with all of our heart , soul , mind , strength and money ? I mean , we can kind of add that in the midst of this . I don't , I mean , I know who said it , but I'm not going to quote them . You ever quote somebody and you don't want everybody to know who you're quoting because they have some things that are slightly
Speaker 2off .
Speaker 3Yeah , like Judas said this .
Speaker 1Somebody wisely once said Judas Iscariot's love for money led him to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver and in the end , his wealth cost him everything . His wealth , his desire for money , what he wanted , ended up costing him everything what would have profited man if he were to gain the whole world and yet forfeit his soul . What was your question ? I ?
Speaker 3don't remember I was going to lead somewhere . I just want to say real quick , man Mark , I didn't even think about Judas and the equation of this whole thing and preparing for that , but what a fitting picture that is of ultimately what's happening . I mean , people aren't outright denying Jesus , but when you love money because you can't serve two masters in essence , when that becomes your pursuit , it becomes your God and you're selling Christ out .
Speaker 4Yeah , and Judas never knew who Jesus was . And you can see it when he complained that a woman had broken an alabaster jar and anointed Jesus and he said why wasn't this money given to the poor ? He didn't think Jesus was worth that . He was worth about 30 pieces of silver Hang on . Did one of the accounts say why the waste Hang on . He wasn't worth that extravagance . He was worth about 30 pieces of silver .
Speaker 1Okay , now we do the same Honestly . We do the same within the church . What is Jesus worth to you ? Well , he's worth about $15 at the movie theater . I'm willing to betray Jesus for two hours for $15 and allow somebody to blaspheme or allow some sort of fornicating scene to go before me .
Speaker 1We look down on Judas and we should for the actions , but what are we doing and how are we compromising inside of our lives ? You know , oscar had brought out the rich young ruler , how he went away sad because he had all of these possessions . But it doesn't say that he didn't do what Jesus wanted him to do . It just said he went away sad . It could very well be . I mean , how many times have we come to the end of ourselves where we've received our marching orders , whatever they may be ? We go away sad and we go , wow , he's requiring that of me . And then , all right , lord , whatever they may be , we go away sad and we go , wow , he's requiring that of me . And then , all right , lord , whatever you want .
Speaker 1Remember the Bible doesn't tell us everything we want to know , but it tells us everything we need to know . So the story is not about the rich young ruler . No story is about those characters . Every story is about Christ to some degree , right , so we need to be careful in the midst of that . So here's a good prayer Lord help me to see my greatest treasure in you , not in the wealth of this world . Repeat it often Help me to see that my greatest wealth is you . My greatest need is you . What I am in need of right now is you . It's not a nicer car , it's not a bigger barn . It's not a bigger barn . It's not the stuff that's going to go inside the barn . That's going to be a difficult thing .
Speaker 2Yeah , I think one really important question to ask the Lord is why are you blessing me with these creaturely comforts ?
Speaker 4There you go again . Izzy , what's that Comforts ? I got to stop saying that .
Speaker 1Why are you ?
Speaker 2blessing me with these things ? Is it so that I can grow more comfortable ? Is it so that I can have better this ? Is it so that I can have a perception of an increased status in my neighborhood , et cetera , et cetera ? And the answer to that question is is that ultimately , we have to recognize , we have to remember a theology of stewardship , which is to say that God blesses us with his blessings , not our blessings . Right ? What do I have to claim any success that I have in my own life ?
Speaker 2I did not give myself the brain to think , the body to move . I did not choose where I would be born , which is in a wealthy , affluent nation . I did not give myself the ability be born , which is in a wealthy affluent nation . I did not give myself the ability to earn any of the finances . Ultimately , all of that is the gift from God . Certainly , I participate through faithful hard work , but at the end of the day , the foundation of my success , or anybody's success for that matter , is on the gifts that God has given us , is on the gifts that God has given us , and so a stewardship mindset is to recognize every dollar in my possession is actually Christ's dollars , god's
money . And a stewardship mindset says to myself God has blessed me so that I can bless others . He has given me comfort so that I can bless others . He has given me comfort so that I can provide comfort for others , even at the cost of my own comfort . Because that's the thing , the scriptures . I can't stand saying that word anymore .
Speaker 1Ray is just giving me the love .
Speaker 4He's just giving me the love . This is the best podcast ever for Ray . That's a living comfort .
Speaker 2But even at my own discomfort , and that's truly a theology . Yeah , ray , discomfort .
Speaker 3That's his new nickname .
Speaker 2That's truly a theology of stewardship and a theology of generosity . And I think in the Old Testament is a prime example when we look at what it meant to glean , like the act of gleaning . And so you recognize that you had these farmers and let's say they had 100 acres of land . The scriptures would tell them take your portion , which is to say , take whatever you need to feed your family and leave the rest for the foreigner , the widow , the poor . And what you would do is , as you'd walk by this farmer's land , you'd see all of that food and produce still there and people would come into that land and they would harvest your hard work . They would take the stuff that you worked hard to produce right , and you kept your portion .
Speaker 2That is a very different view of our capitalistic , consumeristic perspective on money , which is honestly , if we're really honest with ourselves , we have an evolutionary view of money . We have a capitalism is evolution in finance . You work hard , the strong will survive , the poor will die out . They need to pick themselves up by your bootstraps and if they can't , let's get rid of them , because wealth is the way we move forward in life . And this is mine and I earned it and I'm the one that gets to dictate what to do with it , and if I'm feeling generous every now and then I'll give away the 10% . But the scriptures flip that on its head . It absolutely flips that on its head and that is discomforting for a lot of people to hear , and I think it's valuable for us to recognize that money can be an idol .
Speaker 2Let me just quote David Foster Wallace . He's an atheist and I love this because I think this applies to the Christian and the non-believer . So this atheist says this in the day-to-day trenches of adult life there is actually no such thing as atheism . There's no such thing as not worshiping . Everybody worships .
Speaker 2The only choice we get is what to worship , and an outstanding reason for choosing some sort of God like Jesus Christ and he provides other options as well is that pretty much anything else you will worship will eat you alive . If you worship money and things , if they are where you tap real meaning in life , then you will never have enough , Never feel you have enough Worship , your own body and beauty and sexual allure and you will always feel ugly and when time and age start showing you will die a million different deaths before they finally plant you Worship power , you will feel weak and afraid . You will need ever more power over others to keep fear at bay . Worship your intellect being seen as smart , and you will end up feeling stupid , a fraud always on the verge of being found out . And so the beauty of worshiping .
Speaker 4God , an atheist wrote that . Yeah , david Foster Wallace .
Speaker 2Is he a Christian yet ? He sadly died of an overdose , but he was definitely haunted by the gospel , was it suicide ? I don't know the details .
Speaker 3to be honest , To have that kind of insight .
Speaker 2He talked a lot about it . I read his book Infinite Jest and he's very clearly haunted by the gospel Wrestling with it .
Speaker 3Wow , oscar , good , powerful stuff , and I think it'd be good to clarify that . Capitalism , I believe , finds its roots in different ways in scripture , but there's a twisting of it when it becomes the self-centered focus , and what I'm talking about , that is means of possession and being able to own and work and produce . But when it's twisted and when it becomes distorted in an idolatrous ways , we see what happens with it .
Speaker 4And also that communal living , where the poor are able to clean , is often pointed by communists to say look , this is how communism works , but the only difference is they shoot the farmer to death .
Speaker 2so he can grab what he has . Yes , I'm not advocating for or against some sort of economic policy . I'm just looking to the scriptures and applying it to our own lives , not to the economy .
Speaker 3Yeah , and Mark , I just want to say , man , I'm haunted by what you said in terms of what we sell Jesus out for . Right , $15 movie ticket and we look at Judas . But you apply that across a spectrum . Forget monetary matters , I mean just conscience matters . I'm going to sell Jesus out for a glance at this thing or for an indulgence in that thing , or , you know , and we need to pause before we point the fingers and examine like , where are we in our hearts in that regard ? You know , in terms of Christ being prime and central , you know idolatry .
Speaker 4When you talk about selling him out , what you actually do is trample his precious blood under foot . When you give your heart to sin .
Speaker 3So it's not a monetary thing .
Speaker 4It's despising that sacrifice , thinking lightly of it .
Speaker 3Yeah , it's so important to think that way as we live our lives , to be brutal with ourselves when it comes to our obedience to him , because you cannot separate obedience to the Lord from glorifying the Lord . They're one and the same , in that when you're living a life of obedience with the caveat of it being living a life of obedience , with the caveat of it being a 1 John-type obedience and this is love that we keep as commandments , as the commandments are not burdensome it's interrelated with glorifying the Lord when you obey Him that way , you know , and so we do need to intensely examine our hearts and our lives , you know in that regard . But idolatry , as it relates to identity both of you guys have touched on that Ray's alluded to it somewhat as well , but I love what it says in Proverbs 23, . For riches make themselves , or will you set your eyes on that which is not ? For riches certainly make themselves wings . They fly away like an eagle toward heaven . I mean , ray , what a fickle , idle identity is when it comes to riches .
Speaker 4Riches because of how quickly they can go In 1929 , a lot of people leapt out of buildings in New York because of the crash . Yeah , and that just shows the foundation they're built on . I was thinking of Romans 12 , 1 . I beseech you , brethren , by the mercies of God you present your bodies as living sacrifices , holy and acceptable to God , which is your reasonable service . There's that word serve hidden . In that , again , we're saved to serve . I'm an unprofitable servant . That's what we've been saved to do , just to serve the Lord . Jc Ryle said we may love money without having it , just as we may have money without loving it . Who ? Yeah , I said who . It was JC Ryle . Who , who .
Speaker 3Yeah , and you think of the spiritual dangers that can be involved too with idolatry of money and making it an idol . I mean , I think there are times when we forget those that damage themselves spiritually , even within scripture . Listen to this Revelation 3 , 14 to 21 . Then these things says the amen , or and to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans right , these things says the amen , the faithful and true witness , the beginning of the creation of God . I know your works , that you are neither cold nor hot . I could wish you were cold or hot . So then , because you are lukewarm and neither cold nor hot , I will vomit you out of your mouth . Because you say I am rich , have become wealthy , have need of nothing , and do not know that you are wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked . I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire that you may be rich , and white garments that you may be clothed , that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed , and anoint your eyes with eye salve that you may see as many as I love . I rebuke and chase and therefore be zealous and repent . Behold , I stand at the door and knock . If anyone hears my voice and opens the door , I will come in him , dine with him and he with me" .
Speaker 3We forget the context . I think of that last part of Jesus speaking to the church and having communion with the church . But here you know , the church in Laodicea had become fat and rich and they were known for their textile . Then they were known for this ice they would produce . That really generated a lot of wealth for them and they lost their perspective on who God is and their need for him . I love what Jesus said to them . Don't you know that you are wretched , miserable , poor , blind and naked ? I mean , oscar , does that like make your heart wince , like haunting ?
Speaker 2Yeah Well , and you think the language that he's using is idolatrous language , which you brought ? It's where you started your entire thing for . In that he says you are poor , blind and naked . The reason why he uses blind is because , harking back to the Old Testament , that's one of the ways that God mocked the false idols that were built is that he would say look at this statue . It has eyes , but it cannot see . It had ears . It has eyes , but it cannot see . It had ears , but it cannot hear . And we become like what we worship . And so when you begin to worship , comfort , money , whatever , that is a Did you say worship comfort Listener every time I say the word comfort , which is like 22 times .
Speaker 2Now Ray just gets this little smirk on his face . Whatever you worship , if it's not God , it is a statue , and you become like what you worship . You will slowly become poor . You will slowly become blind and deaf to the things of God . Only God can open your eyes when you worship God . Only he can open your eyes because only he has eyes to see . Only God will open your ears because only he has ears to hear your prayers and you let me , just because I prepared a conversation about prosperity gospel , let me just shift this a little bit and talk about preachers , because here's the reality is that one of the things that I want to say is that health and wealth , unfortunately , is also propagated from the pulpits . It doesn't have to be your typical health and wealth prosperity preacher .
Speaker 2Not everybody preaching prosperity from the gospel is flying around in a rich airplane . As a matter of fact , a 2023 study from Lifeway Church says that 52% of churches teach that God will bless them if they give more money to their church and charity . 76% say that God wants them to prosper financially , but they have to do something for God to bless them . In other words , we are often taught from the pulpit that wealth and prosperity is somehow some like . It becomes an idol of ours . And I was listening to this old David Bazin song called Lost my Shape and it's like he's like warning the preacher . Listen to this line . He says you used . This reminds me of like the preacher that wants money , the preacher that wants fame , the preacher that wants more followers . And likes he says this you used to sound like a prophet and everyone wanted to know how you could tell the truth without losing that soft glow . But now you feel like a salesman closing another deal or some drunk ship captain raging after the white whale .
Speaker 3Isn't that wild . That's crazy man or some drunk ship captain raging after the white whale , oh . Isn't that wild . That's crazy man . And so many do get lost in that the preachers that are just living it up , and the expensive suits and the high-flying lifestyle .
Speaker 4They're probably lost anyway . If you are not soundly saved , you don't understand what the true riches are For sure . There's no fear of God . So you're just left with this gospel of benefit and comfort . Yeah , comfort .
Speaker 3I love this verse , Mark . I love this verses . I'd love you to speak on this in terms of just contentment , I would love to comment on it yeah .
Speaker 1Thank you Clear it out .
Speaker 3Proverbs 30 , 8 and 9 . Give me neither poverty nor riches . Feed me with the food allotted to me , lest I be full and deny you and say who is the Lord , or lest I be poor and steal and profane the name of my God .
Speaker 1Yeah , there's a contentment attached to that . Right Godliness with contentment is great gain . You know , as John Wesley said , right Godliness with contentment is great gain . As John Wesley said , there's nothing more dangerous to your salvation than covetousness . Well , with a mindset like that that keeps you far from covetousness , when you realize that God is going to provide your every need , then I think you have the ability to be a little bit more liberal with what God is entrusting inside your life . I don't know if you guys saw recently , but Dave Ramsey sat his kids down recently and they had no idea what his net worth was and he showed them his financial books and they were all absolutely amazed and he said listen , this is not my money . I've been a steward of this money , but this money , when I die , is now going to come into your possession only if you're a Christian , because it's not my money . Therefore , it's not your money . It's not my money to give your money , but I'm going to allow you to steward the money and you cannot steward this money if you're not a Christian .
Speaker 3Dad , what's that prayer ? Again , I was going to say if at any time an older court's trying to bring the organ in he's going to get decisions from his kids . Wow , that's pretty powerful .
Speaker 1Randy Elkhorn said when Jesus warns us not to store treasures on earth , it's not because wealth might be lost , it's because wealth will always be lost . Either it leaves us while we live or we leave it when we die . And there is . You know you were quoting David Foster Wallace earlier , and boy , what a tragic tale . And he said something very insightful one time that I've often said . He said the truth will set you free in reference to Jesus . You know , the truth will set you free , but he said . But he said the truth will set you free , but not until it's done with you that he recognized that there has to come a place where you wrestle through all the things that are dear inside your life .
Inside of AW Tozer's book the Pursuit of God I think it's chapter 2 , where it's entitled the Blessedness of Possessing Nothing , he said there comes a moment inside of our lives where God puts a big bullseye around that thing .
Speaker 1That's kind of creeping up to the throne room of where God sits , and it's not on the throne , but it's just kind of creeping up to the throne and God says I require that of you .
Speaker 1And the example that he gives is Abraham and Isaac . Isaac wasn't necessarily on the throne room in Abraham's heart , but it was potentially on its way to get there and God was saying where exactly is it ? Where is he ? Where is this money ? And you know where your heart is at when things begin to get moved . And every single day when I start off my day , I hold my hands out flat , as I do my morning salute and I think through my possessions and my kids and my wife and everything , and I say Lord , it is well with my soul if you want to move things out of my hands and completely remove them where they're no longer in my life altogether . And I remember hearing you Easy pray , a prayer when we were traveling and you had said God , watch over my kids in my absence just as much as you do in my presence . That's great .
Speaker 1Because , they're not my kids and you're going to watch over them and I'll have the best seat in the house should you take me home and I don't have the ability to watch them get married or fill in the blank .
Speaker 3I got struck one day with that as I'm leaving , I'm going on a trip . Lord , bless my family in my absence , or protect them in my absence . I'm like what's he doing when I'm present ? I think I'm their protector . That's really good , but here's a concept that really struck me the wealthiest man is the man who is most content .
Speaker 1I mean you think ?
Speaker 3about that , right ? I mean , ray , you said something that just really struck me , talking about your toast and your whole elaborate scheme and putting it together . But what you said , I nearly cry when I sit down to eat . This is a piece of like it's not even real bread . I nearly cried , but I love that , that's good . I mean you think about it , right . If I wanna swim , do I need a hundred thousand feet to effectively swim in ? If I have seven , six , six , five , six , seven feet , I can swim fine . Three feet , ray and two feet . But I have seven , six , six , five , six , seven feet , I can swim fine . Three feet , ray and two feet . But I'm just saying like there are times when I and this is a habit in my life , it's giving thanks , a portion of my prayer time where I give thanks to the Lord . There's times I'm sitting and I have a little loft in my house . It's kind of like my office .
Speaker 3Right under the helicopter pad my office , right under the helicopter pad and jet , and I just sit in there . Sometimes I look around as I'm praying and I'm like Lord , I feel like the richest man in the world . Here's a room , I have a computer there , I have these shelves stocked with books , I'm sitting in a recliner , I have carpet , there's air conditioning and everything is tidy . Oh yes , and that's the biggest joy , everything's in its place . But you know what I'm saying . What more do I need than that room ? Do I need a mansion ? Do I need a $100,000 , $200,000 , $300,000 car ? My car gets me from A to B at work . Thank you , lord Right .
Speaker 4That heart of contentment . It was Mark's car . I didn't even know he bought it for me Right .
Speaker 2Perspective is everything real . I want to comment on that , but real quick because you reminded me . Did you hear about that kid like two days ?
Speaker 4ago that got stuck in a well in your belinda because you're talking about praying for your kids .
Speaker 2He got stuck in a .
Speaker 4Well , apparently he didn't see that well I'm just gonna say , is he well , uh , perspective the woman at the . Well , the ?
Speaker 2woman at the well Perspective is everything . Isn't it amazing Like I grew up very below the poverty line , we grew up on government food stamps , like we just did not have money . We moved around over and over and over again . And I remember going to a friend's house .
Speaker 2I was playing I played soccer at the time and like the dad was picking us both up and we pulled up to his house and he parked inside of his garage and I just thought it was a single family home , like not very big , but this man pulled inside of his garage and I was like these people are rich Cause I was used to apartment complexes , you know , and no garages , and you admired their comfort . I admired their uh , I can't think of another word for comfort , but nonetheless I told that to my wife and a group of neighbors , and one day for Father's Day , my wife and neighbors cleaned out our garage so I can park in it , and every day I come home I get to park in my garage and I just feel like the richest man in the world . It's so simple , but in my little like five or whatever 10 year old mind , that was that was making it . You know , and so cause I think you know to your point it's like perspective is everything we are . We are so rich , we are so if you're in the middle class , if you drive a car , you're in the top 1% of the world .
Speaker 2I remember hearing a story about a guy coming back from India one time and he walked down this street and to the left was all these business people and to the right were all of these kids without shoes on , like they . They didn't . They did not know what it's like to put shoes on the morning If you wake up in a on a mattress with a roof over your head and you put shoes on you are blessed , amen .
Speaker 3I mean , ray , seriously , if you got hundreds of millions of dollars , I mean I think there was someone at least out there said you were a billionaire but would that change your life ? Would you change how you live ?
Speaker 4I get more toast and chickens , right , I mean no , I just wouldn't know what to do with it . Get it in the living waters and reach the lost when you're consumed with God's kingdom and eternity .
Speaker 3More chickens , glorified chicken coop . Let me just wrap us up with , I think , these important passages here in 1 Timothy 6 . Now , godliness with contentment is great gain . This is verses six through nine . For we brought nothing into this world and it is certain we can carry nothing out . And having food and clothing , with these we shall be content . But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and into many foolish and harmful lusts which drown men in destruction and perdition . For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil , for which some have strayed from the faith in their greediness and pierced themselves through with many sorrows . There's the fly and the honey .
Speaker 4There it is .
Speaker 3And the issue is what ? The issue is this greedy desire to be rich . It's not wrong to want to have , and as Oscar said earlier , for what purpose ? To be a blessing to others , and it's that love of money . It's , when , wrong to want to have , and as Oscar said earlier , for what purpose ? To be a blessing to others , and it's that love of money . It's when it has your affections , your heart , when it has become your God .
Speaker 3But it's interesting because then he goes on to say , in verses 17 to 19 of the same chapter command those who are rich . Which means what ? There are people within the body of Christ he's speaking to believers here who are rich and that God has blessed . Because he does Command those who are rich in this present age not to be haughty , not to trust in uncertain riches , but in the living God who gives us richly all things to enjoy . Let them do good , that they be rich in good works , ready to give , willing to share , storing up for themselves a good foundation for the time to come that they may hold of eternal life . So that's the balance . We don't strive for riches , we don't want to be rich for richness sake , we don't love money , but if God has blessed us . This should be our heart . We shouldn't trust in those riches , we shouldn't be a people who are greedy , but we're ready to give , we're willing to share and we're not storing up treasures on this earth , but we have an eternal mindset .
Speaker 1And here's the challenge right Give something of value away . Today I had a friend who went and purchased a new sweatshirt and I go , man , I love your sweatshirt . And he had given me the sweatshirt .
Speaker 1I thought he was getting himself that sweatshirt and you guys are so confusing me with what you guys are doing right now right , but that sweatshirt you guys are so confusing me with what you guys are doing right now , but it's just the idea of he bought the sweatshirt for himself . He recognized that I liked the sweatshirt and he gave me the sweatshirt and he kept his sweatshirt . He could have easily went and bought a second sweatshirt , but he didn't .
Speaker 3He became content with what he had . I like your car , Mark .
Speaker 2That was the same thing . It reminded me . Years ago , one of my kids was like five years old and we pulled through In-N-Out and got fries and a burger for this kid . And we get home and I didn't get any fries for myself and I lean over and I grab one of their fries and they look at me like Dad , those are my fries and I go . I gave you those fries . I am the giver and taker away of fries and I go . I gave you those fries . I am the giver and taker away of fries . If I wanted to , I can give you bags and bags of fries , but I've given you these fries and all I want back is like one or two fries . Are you not going to give me one or two fries ?
Speaker 4And in that same sense- you should have gone for 10% .
Speaker 2But in that same sense recognize all that you have is not yours . It is given to you by God and when you are generous , ultimately you're handing back what already belongs to him .
Speaker 3That was David's heart right After they built the temple . Or we're trying to garner money for the temple . Who are we that we can give so lavishly Of your own ? You've given to us , right . We're giving back to you . What's yours , Lord , in the first place ? The French fries . You have a salad of fries . Well , there you have it , friends . Hey , if you don't know what to do by now , you've got problems . Podcast at livingwaterscom .
Speaker 2Podcast at livingwaterscom that's the funniest thing you've said in a long time .
Speaker 3And don't forget friends to like and do all that good stuff . Remember track sample pack and all the other good stuff . Thank you for joining us , friends . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast , where we have no idea what we're doing .