One of the reasons that we struggle is that people don't understand biblical roles . But the more we understand the roles that God has made us to fulfill , the more joy that we have . I also think we talk to a lot of couples who they'll come in for counseling in the premarital and say , hey , we're gonna get married , you know , and we'll sit there and the first question that we like to ask is well , why are you getting married ? So you know , your son , we'll just use Tanny , if you were to sit down . A lot of times , even in an evangelical world or a Christian world , it'll be answers like well , you know , we want to have a family together , which is good , we'll point out you could .
Speaker 1There's lots of people who aren't Christians and who even don't get married , who have families . And you know , eventually we point out to them like all those things can be done . This is the old J Adams point All those things can be done without being married , right ? So why are you actually doing this ? And then you go into the eternal purpose , the glory of God and the metaphor of the gospel .
Speaker 1But we always love to take them back to Genesis , chapter two , and say , you know , hey , at the end of the day , it wasn't good , god said , for man to be alone . And so there's this helper , this Ezer Kanegdo , who's made for him , and so it's companionship , what we like to call this contract of lifetime teammates , where you're saying we're not going to do this alone , and so now we're going to walk an aisle in covenant to one another , to our friends and family , but also to the living God , that we're going to be lifetime teammates , or what we call best friendship . We're going to build a best friendship and we're going to do life together , and I think that's the element that most people miss . I'm getting married for sex , I'm getting married to have a family , but I don't understand . I'm getting married because the two will be stronger than the one , and what we start we're going to finish .
Speaker 2The Reverend Dr Tony Wood . He prefers his eminence , or your highness , or his holiness . Yeah , yeah , but he's in the house , excuse me , thankfully not alone , but he brought along with him Bree Wood , aka Sunflower Is that right . We still flowing with Sunflower , yeah absolutely she's my .
Speaker 1Sunflower .
Speaker 2You made me because I mean , here you are calling your wife Sunflower . I had to create a name for Rachel , so now it's Petunia , until I discovered that that's what .
Speaker 3Porky Pig's girlfriend's name was . So I'm like , oh no , there's no winning ?
Speaker 2I know there is no winning , Guys what ? A joy to have you with us here and for our listeners who are joining us today , you're in for a big treat . You guys aren't just people being used by the Lord in ministry , obviously , tony , you're a pastor Mission Bible Church Costa Mesa . But , man , you're friends and we have been so blessed to just gain your friendship .
Speaker 1Well , we love you . So what an honor to be here with you guys today . It's been a joy , and you minister to us so much , and so to you and the entire Living Waters team . What an honor and privilege it is to be with you guys .
Speaker 2Yeah , man , it's been neat just to see how the Lord has kind of developed our friendship and you've had us on the
podcast . We've done a conference at your church , we got Mark's son at your church , tanny , and we just hired Aaron Alvarez . Yeah , a lot of cross-pollination .
Speaker 1This is both a podcast and an excommunication trip . Yeah , a lot of cross-pollination .
Speaker 2This is both a podcast and an excommunication trip . They don't know it , but we're bringing them in . So it's such a blessing to have you guys here . And today we're going to be talking about your new book that's out and that people are going to get blessed by . We're going to be talking about , obviously , how to strengthen your marriage and family . So we'll get into that , we'll talk about the book , we'll plug it . All that good stuff . But first something more important , a news item Missing woman mystery solved . A group of tourists spent hours Saturday night looking for a missing woman near Iceland's Algja Canyon , only to find her among the search party . The group was traveling through Iceland on a tour bus and stopped near a volcanic canyon . Soon the word of a missing passenger . Soon there was word of a missing passenger . The woman , who had changed clothes , didn't recognize the description of herself and joined in the search . But the search was called off at about 3 am when it became clear the missing woman was in fact accounted for and searching for herself .
Speaker 3What you made that up .
Speaker 2True story man . I don't know the source , but I know it's true .
Speaker 3It's because it was online . It was on Facebook , it was on the internet .
Speaker 2It's got to be true . So anyway , that meant nothing .
Speaker 1Does that mean that she was in the search party the whole time ? Exactly , not knowing that the search party was looking for her , was searching for her .
Speaker 2She was looking for herself , but not knowing that's something Ray Comfort would do .
Speaker 4That would so be something Ray Comfort would do Was she like walking around with a photo of herself . Have you seen ?
Speaker 3myself . Have you seen With him ? She was holding the mirror , she was holding a photo , she was lady .
Speaker 2Anyway , whatever , that was for nothing . Time for a cool , classy comment . This is from James Lyons . Thank you for all you do . I found the podcast through a friend , listened to a few episodes and was not disappointed . I've listened ever since and have grown deeply in my faith thanks to you guys and the way you look at the world through the lenses of the gospel , the way you guys have a rich relationship with each other and the Lord encourages me , as well as proving the fact that there are good Christian podcasts . God bless and again , thanks for all you do . Ps Keep on keeping the other guys on topic , mark , and keep singing easy .
Speaker 4That's why he read it .
Speaker 2Yeah , I will keep singing . Who was that ? That was James Lyons .
Speaker 1James . I want to second James . I would agree Everyone I talk to and I would agree . It is your love for one another and the banter that makes this podcast so awesome . Oh , thank you , man . Not the singing though . Thanks man . Thank you , bro , you had me until that point , yeah and .
Speaker 2I disagree there goes our friendship again . All right . And now a radically revolutionary resource . This podcast is brought to you by Little Red . Book for Marriage and Family Ooh , 12 Principles for Relational Thriving . That's the book , guys . That's what we're promoting today . We're not even promoting our resources , because we love you . Look , I've read the book and it's phenomenal . I mean , I just have to be honest , it's phenomenal . One of the favorites of Rachel and me is reading through marriage books together . We've done that since we were newly married and , man , this thing is just power-packed . It's not massive , which makes it , yeah , bite-sized . It's practical and it's just full of biblical truth .
Speaker 3Yeah , there's an emphasis on just simple daily actions . So I'm at the place and stage and age of my life where I'm looking for takeaways , practical takeaways . This is why I love your preaching so much that you're not just preaching from an ivory tower right , you're rolling up your sleeves and you're saying , look , I've fallen on my face , I've kind of gone before you . I'm just kind of maybe I'm a step ahead of you in the failure which you might experience . But if you follow my lead , you don't need to fail either . But when you fail , if you fail , listen , this is how you get out . These are some practical daily exercises that you can do to move forward . That's part of being old people . That's part of being old you hit your head on so many door jams .
Speaker 5You're telling other people .
Speaker 1Hey , duck behind me , right . I mean that was kind of our heart in the book in general is just to say , hey , we have made so many mistakes , but then we've also had a lot of older people pour wisdom into us , biblical wisdom , and so how can we just kind of simplify and share it for other ?
Speaker 2people .
Speaker 1Yeah , amen .
Speaker 4Yeah , I really appreciate how it felt like a co-labor of love . My wife and I read , similar to you guys , a marriage book a year and often , even if it's co-written by a husband and wife , it's not clear who's writing what , or a wife will only write one chapter . But this really did feel like a co-labor of love . It felt like I was sitting down with the two of you and hearing you go back and forth about these subjects , which I think is very approachable for both the husband and wife . Who's going to be reading this ?
Speaker 2book together . Yeah , I love the constant interjection that kind of was weaved throughout the book . It was really good .
Speaker 3I felt weaved throughout the book . It was really good . I feel like you guys were giving marital counseling to each other . You guys continue working through things . Well , I've learned this . Let's do this .
Speaker 1Interjection and counseling . So what that means is I would write something and then she would tell me when I was wrong . That's marital interjection .
Speaker 2Exactly so yeah , friends , make sure to check it out . You can get it on Amazon , and again , we're going to be talking more about it , but where else can people get it Amazon ?
Speaker 1Amazon , 316 Publishing . The publisher yeah , Pretty much everywhere .
Speaker 2Bookstores . Yeah , check it out . And don't forget , friends , the Living Water shorts . We got to keep pushing this . I know they're thinking Living Water shorts and pants and hats , shorts with Ray's picture on it . No , the Living Water shorts , oscar , real . Tell our people about it .
Speaker 4Yeah , we would love to see you take our videos that we post online and repost them and make them their own , and so we've taught you how to do that in a way that honors our work but also gives you an opportunity to make God known , so you can go to livingwaterscom forward slash shorts to learn how to do that .
Speaker 2Yeah , and these are . You know you're taking videos of ours and creating short videos from them , like you're taking videos of ours and creating short videos from them , like 60-second shorts . That's why they're called that . So , yeah , check it out . Don't forget the Living Waters mug the Heaven to Study Bible . Living Waters TV Come on , subscribe All at Living Waters . Wow , is that Donald ? Duck , I don't know , Tony and Bree at this point are like what did we sign up for ?
Speaker 4Why are we Tony's ? Like my members listen to this stuff .
Speaker 2Yeah , all right , friends , and now we're going to jump into it . Guys , the book . Tell us what birthed the idea and how did we get here .
Speaker 1What birthed the idea ? Actually , it was Gary Kim 316 Publishing . So Gary had come to us after listening to the podcast and he had said , hey , maybe we could try to put that into book form . And then at first we so back up the podcast .
Speaker 2Yeah , yeah .
Speaker 1So that actually started . We had a buddy come to us who had planted a church and he had said hey , in the evangelical world a lot of us are learning our Bibles and we know kind of what it means to be in a biblical marriage , but we don't know how it looks because we grew up in broken homes . So would you guys be willing to do a podcast ? And so we kind of laughed at first .
Speaker 5We don't want my wife do you want to speak to this ?
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 2I thought you were joking . She thought I was joking . Are you serious ? So this wasn't something you , because my wife and I have been on the podcast .
Speaker 3Mark , you've been on the podcast and what is the name of the podcast ? Have you been on the podcast ?
Speaker 1I have not . You need to be on the podcast . Oh , you should be . What is the name of the podcast ?
Speaker 3Date Night with the Woods . Date Night with the Woods . Yeah , yeah out . We had a scheduling thing , yeah .
Speaker 1That's what it was . Yeah , date night , marriage and family , date night with the Woods , and so we started the podcast and we had no clue what we were doing . In fact , you were one of the early guests when you came into that little closet room .
Speaker 2That's right , bro . We were sitting there . I walked in there , I'm like janitor's closet .
Speaker 1Janitor figured it out along the way , and anyway , Gary came and said hey , could we put that into ? Book form , and then we laughed again and then we went and prayed and it was I mean , you mentioned labor of love . It's a fun process . I think it like anything in marriage , it becomes really , really , really humbling and sanctifying when you're forced to put pen to paper and start talking about things , and so it was a good process .
Speaker 2Yeah , Did you guys because my book Fight Like a man . You had me on the podcast talking about that . I mean , I told you guys it was like a traumatizing experience in terms of all that was involved in doing that . Was it more of a fun process for you guys or was it challenging ?
Speaker 5What do you think ? He's the creative genius , and so I am thankful to be able to go along for the ride right to genius .
Speaker 2I'll pay you back later , I just I I enjoy getting to be along for the ride yeah it's it's been fun well I , in reading the whole book , I I got the fun vibe from it . It seemed like it was written with enjoyment . It was infused with enjoyment in terms of content , but it also had a feel like you guys enjoyed writing it .
Speaker 1Traumatizing , I think , would be a strong word , but I would say that I think marriage can be tough , and so the fact we're writing it now , 20 years later , makes it easier , because we're looking back on those 20 plus years and 20 , 25 years that we've known each other and we're kind of working through things , more tongue in cheek and we are able to have humor that we wouldn't have had in those situations , like some of the stories you're telling . They're funny now , when I hairsprayed , your .
Speaker 4They were not there .
Speaker 1I was about to say I can't wait to relive the hairspray story with you guys , but like you know , in the moment that's sanctification and you're learning holiness , and so I think it was easier to write now than it would have been five , 10 years ago .
Speaker 3Yeah , that's great , you know my son came to me and he said that he attended a gathering for a friend of his that was about ready to get married . And then there were some other men that were there to give some practical advice getting ready for marriage . And all of the guys said basically , buckle up , it is so hard , it's the hardest thing , it's the roughest thing . But nobody came along and said that it was a rewarding time , that marriage is a beautiful , beautiful thing . So I just think and I interject here right , really quick to think so you guys have been married how long now ?
Speaker 520 years 20 .
Speaker 2He says 20 years , right With confidence 20 .
Speaker 3Yeah , I need you to look . So 20 years , why should anybody even get married when it's so rough ? My son had asked me the question . People talk down on marriage so much and nobody's lifting it up , Nobody's sanctifying it to the stage . What do you say to that person ? What do you say , my love ?
Speaker 5I say you know the beauty of being able to fulfill what God has called us to as wives . Martha Peace , she describes in her book the Excellent Wife there's a triangle and on the top is God , and then there's the husband and the wife and there's an arrow going down to the husband and wife . You know , both are made in the image of God . But our purpose I get to bring glory to my husband . So there's an arrow going from the wife to the husband and then an arrow going from the husband to God . And being able to see God has allowed me the privilege of being able to bring glory to my husband and be his helpmate as he brings glory to God . And it's such yeah .
Speaker 1I think it's one of the reasons that we struggle is that people don't understand biblical roles . But the more we understand the roles that God has made us to fulfill , the more
joy that we have . I also think we talk to a lot of couples who they'll come in for counseling in the premarital and say , hey , we're gonna get married , you know , and we'll sit there and the first question that we like to ask is well , why are you getting married ? So , you know , your son , we'll just use Tanny , if you were to sit down . A lot of times , even in an evangelical world or a Christian world , it'll be answers like well , you know , we want to have a family together , which is good , we'll point out you could .
Speaker 1There's lots of people who aren't Christians and who even don't get married , who have families . You know , a lot of times guys who come from conservative Bible colleges will say things like well , I just want to , you know , make love and not feel guilty , and which , okay , get it , leave it there , pg . And you know , eventually we point out to him like all those things can be done . This is the old J Adams point . All those things can be done without being married , right ? So why are you actually doing this ? And then you go into the eternal purpose , the glory of God and the metaphor of the gospel .
Speaker 1But we always love to take him back to Genesis , chapter two , and say you know , hey , at the end of the day it wasn't good , god said , for man to be alone , and so there's this helper , this Ezer Kanegdo , who's made for him , and so it's companionship , what we like to call this contract of lifetime teammates , where you're saying we're not going to do this alone , and so now we're going to walk an aisle in covenant to one another , to our friends and family , but also to the living God , that we're going to be lifetime , lifetime teammates , or what we call best friendship . We're gonna build a best friendship and we're gonna do life together , and I think that's the element that most people miss . I'm getting married for sex . I'm getting married to have a family , but I don't understand . I'm getting married because the two will be stronger than the one , and what we start we're gonna finish .
Speaker 4I love that . I think I would add as well the reality that marriage is this great tool that God means to sanctify you , and so so often for young men . For myself , when I was looking at trying to not be married , my thoughts were my comfort , my privilege , my rights , my freedom , my time , and I lost a sense of the importance of my sanctification , in other words , the question of what does God mean to do in me through marriage , who is the person he means to make me and how does he mean to use marriage in that context ? Because when we start recognizing our lives are designed to become more like Jesus , then we see marriage as this amazing , incredible tool of sanctification and , as anybody who's been married for any period of time would tell you , nothing sanctifies you like marriage .
Speaker 2Yeah , I always think man , the holier-than-thou brothers , they just need to find a wife . And that changes quickly . It shakes you in a way . It's like the whole analogy with the bottle that looks like it has nothing but water in it . You shake it and it's suddenly murky and muddy and dirty . Well , the dirt was there the whole time . It's the shaking that revealed it . And so you know , god loves us enough to bring a very special divine shaker in our life , called the husband or wife , that'll shake us in ways others can't and gets the dirt out of those crevices where it's really hidden and deep . And God does that to sanctify us , to cause us to run to Him so that he can sift out that filth that's inside of us .
Speaker 1You put that in your book , that it's not happiness , it's holiness . And that was , I thought , a great line .
Speaker 2Yeah , and it's easy to miss that . And speaking of missing things , you know you touched on it a little bit , but you gave a few points in the book on like the primary purpose for marriage and that people miss it . You talked about it , their companionship being one of them . So what is that all-encompassing ?
Speaker 1Well , you got physical , you got emotional and mental and spiritual , and so I think you basically are coming together to say we wanna do life in all of those categories together . One of the things kind of tying that in with holiness that I think you mentioned , which is often forgotten , is that marriage means I'm gonna be elevating the interest of the other over myself . Is that marriage means I'm going to be elevating the interest of the other over myself . And I actually had somebody ask me recently , you know they said why is it that couples will walk the aisle and this goes to your point too , mark They'll walk the aisle with this view of marriage that it's going to be wonderful , and then within a few months they stop pursuing each other and the joy begins to fade . And I think it comes back to .
Speaker 1We enter marriage a lot of times with this idea that I'm going to be the one and , oscar , you mentioned this part I'm going to be getting a lot out of it . Instead of going into marriage thinking I'm going to do everything I can to please and uplift , by a choice of the will , my spouse and I even think about that with the pursuit part I had a guy come to me just recently and said hey , how come we're not pursuing each other ? We've only been married a year . So we were like getting walking down the aisle and we were hot to trot man . It was like you know , hey , she's looking good and I'm . You know he's the best he's ever going to look . He's been working out and he's tanned and bronzed up .
Speaker 1It's all downhill I mean she had five hours on her hair alone .
Speaker 1I mean and he said but we got married , went on the honeymoon and immediately it was like the intimacy just went boom , the romance went boom . He said what happened and so we began to talk and quickly he realized he had not been putting her interest above his own . So he goes into marriage . All of us guys do it right and we're thinking one thing . We're thinking it's honeymoon , but we're forgetting that our wife is an emotional creature and she's desiring emotional care . She wants to know that she's loved and that she's beautiful in your eyes .
Speaker 1And so foreplay really starts even early on in the morning . I mean the woman's heart , I'll keep it PG . But then , conversely , we sat down together and then she began to point out that maybe she hadn't taken his desires and needs into consideration and that he's visual , and that she went from wearing a lingerie and suddenly , two weeks in , she's wearing big pajamas . And it's like she went to a conference and an older lady told her hey , listen , maybe we should change our outfit and put on some really puffy pajamas . And she admitted oh , my goodness , I haven't been thinking about him and what he likes and what he desires and the responsiveness I can show him . And it was an interesting moment that after only a year of marriage , a couple was able to turn the corner and say , from this point forward , I'm going to think in my mind what do you need , what do you enjoy , what is it that makes you tick as a woman ? And then conversely for the man , and that really began to change the way they viewed their friendship .
Speaker 2Well , you know , it's the Philippians 2 dynamic . Right , that's it . Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit , but in loneliness of mind , let each esteem others better than himself , let each view look out not only for his own interests but also for the interests of others . And then he ties it in there with the mind of Christ , who became a servant right To redeem us , and so it reminds me .
Speaker 4You know I've shared this before in the podcast . I used to do a college group , lead college group , and we had a couple hundred college students and often someone would come to me and be like oh you know , I'm in love with this girl , or whatever . And I go oh , what do you , you know , tell me about it ? Oh , I love the way she makes me feel . I love the things that she does for me . I love that she's in the same sports that I am into . I love that she likes the movies I like and I used to go .
Speaker 4Man , it sounds like you love yourself so often our pursuit of other people where we think I love her why ? Because of all the things that she loves about you . But true love is sacrificial . It's putting , like you just mentioned , putting the other person before you . And unfortunately so many people go into marriage year one with those presuppositions . They think they're in love but really they're just magnifying their love for self .
Speaker 2Yeah , well , and I think a big problem is that when people get married , each is looking to the other as a receptacle to receive from rather than a conduit to give through , and that's so key . I mean all of us . We have these natural needs that are legitimate , but the problem is we're looking to a person to be the source of supply for those needs , rather than the Lord . And when you do that , everything falls apart , because no person is designed to be a source . God is the source , so you go to him for what you need and you look to your spouse as a medium through which you love God with all your heart , mind , soul and strength by being all he's called you to be as a husband or wife , and loving your spouse through sacrificial service , by meeting their needs , considering them more important than yourself . I think those are keen important . And , bree , I think for the woman that's listening now who says but my husband , he's this way and until he changes , I can't change what I do , what would you say to her ?
Speaker 5I think I mean coming back to Philippians 2 is so helpful and to be reminded of Christ's example that he came as a man and he gave everything up to be able to save us from our sins . And so , looking at Christ's example , first and foremost , and realizing that you cannot do anything without his help , and to try to not do it in your own strength , and to praise him I mean that's a huge praise to be able to get to the point to where you realize I cannot do this on my own . I need the Lord . So I think , turning to his word , looking at Christ's example , being on your knees in prayer and trusting that he will help you , and I mean discipleship I'm such a huge fan of discipleship .
Speaker 2Yeah , speak on that a little bit .
Speaker 5Yeah , having an older , godly woman who you see their life and they are following Christ and you ask to follow them as they follow Christ and discipleship is so helpful with allowing you to see your own blind spots and to be able to see , oh , the situation that I am in right now isn't just my husband's fault , it's mine too .
Speaker 2And so sometimes we just can't see it , and so to have someone else point it out , yeah , and you don't have to get into that now , but in the book , I mean , you give an example of a older , godly woman that spoke into your life and it had a massive impact Huge . You know , it's the Titus dynamic of , you know , younger women humbling themselves to listen to older women and to receive that input .
Speaker 4For me that older godly woman is Mark .
And it's Oscar's last day on the podcast .
Speaker 4Chapter three . I love it . You say this , brie feminism is not just a social , socio political movement , it's also a position of the heart which screams me . I love that you point that out , because I think that when we think about feminism , we're like well , I'm definitely not influenced by feminism . That's , you know the that , the lesbian pro choicer with the shaved head standing on the street picketing you know conservatism or whatever the case . So clearly I'm not a feminist . Picketing , you know conservatism or whatever the case . So clearly I'm not a feminist . Yet , to your point , feminist ideas are in the air that we breathe . So how can wives identify those subtle influences in their lives ? Maybe you can even give an example .
Speaker 5Yeah , absolutely . Is it okay if I turn to ?
Speaker 5the microphone Please do so Genesis 3.16 , to be able to see from the beginning to the woman , god said I will greatly multiply your pain in childbirth . In pain you shall bring forth children , yet your desire shall be for your husband and he shall rule over you . And to see that this problem isn't just modern day . It has been from the very beginning and the woman would want to usurp , she would want to be taking control of her husband . And so , seeing , you know , in regards to today's feminism , it's more seeking equality but also rejecting traditional rules that God has set , and seeing that it's countercultural to today . God's design is countercultural because God's design is to compliment our husbands , not compete with them . And it seems like so much of today is just wanting to compete rather than compliment . But a personal example can you help me understand that question ?
Speaker 1just a little bit no no , I think that was great . I actually can think of one Twilight . So we , brie , was radically saved in 2009 and we've been married I think five years . At that point I better get that right . And we 2009, . I get a phone call come home and it was an amazing transformation in our marriage . We've got a ton of stories about that time period in our life . But then you remember all the young people in college , 2010 or so , we're going to that movie , twilight with the vampires and all things . So we're like , hey , we have two kids , we'll get babysitter check it out . And so we stand in line and it was like you had come out of a conservative evangelical church where you knew , kind of the concept of feminism was wrong , but we had no idea that in our marriage we were upside down .
Speaker 1It's like in the old Emerson Edricks crazy cycle . Remember that when the husband is to be sacrificially leading and guiding , the wife is to be respecting and supporting , and that's the right cycle . But because of feminism and because of the usurping , that's natural , the tshuka that the enemy has waylaid upon marriage , it gets upside down , where you're going the wrong way . The man is passive and he's sitting there watching ESPN and then the wife becomes dominant , like all the sitcoms . So we didn't have the inkling about that until we walk into Twilight . We're about six months into your conversion and you walk out of the movie and you were dead quiet and I said what's wrong ? That was a pretty interesting movie . It's got werewolves and sparkly vampires . And then she goes . I just saw something she said . I just saw Genesis , the Genesis record . I just saw a teenage girl usurp both a werewolf and a vampire and it was like this big , eye-opening moment Do ?
Speaker 5you want to talk about that ? When you saw literally everywhere we look , even teeny bopper movies women are dominating men , yeah , and I mean in a very accepted , uh way that the culture accepts it is , you want to feel loved , you want to be cherished and , uh , that was an idol in my life . And the lord allowed me my eyes to be open to just my selfishness and my sin by actually reading a book called the Love Dare . Do you guys remember ?
Speaker 4that .
Speaker 5Yes , it's like halfway through chapter 20 , the gospel message is presented and I just start bawling . It's like six o'clock in the morning and I'm realizing wow , because we were in a hard place in our marriage . Things were thriving with young adult ministry . I was home with two little kiddos .
Speaker 1And I was selfish , a very selfish leader and of the home , in fact , to the point . She got on the phone and she called an older woman and she said you know , we are not clicking . What do I do ? And this is a great story . I come home and she comes walking out with a plate of hors d'oeuvres and greets me at the door and I'm like what happened , Part of the love dare I think it was and I'm like this is weird .
Speaker 1And then she goes okay , dinner will be ready in five minutes , and she takes my bag . It was like leave it to Beaver right and the two kids are parked in the high chairs . They're sitting , they're all obedient and I come over to the table and then I sit down . She takes the napkin and she wafts it and puts it on my , and then she walks over and sets it down and she goes . Dinner is served , my Lord .
Speaker 2I said Rachel , are you listening ? Hey Rach shout out .
Speaker 1So I'm like what happened . And then she went on to explain . I called this older woman from the church and she said 1 Peter 3 , just do whatever Sarah did .
Speaker 5And she said Lord so I'm calling you Lord . I said we're not doing the Lord thing and now , 20 years later , I'm like let's bring that back , baby . Come on , let's bring it back .
Speaker 1Yeah , but it was like , literally , she just started taking the Bible , literally the authority of Scripture , and that transformed our marriage . Because , as a man , brothers , you know , when your wife showcases , I will follow , submit and respect the way the Lord tells me to . It pushes us to become the sacrificial leader that we need to be .
Speaker 3Amen .
Speaker 1Oh that's so good and that's a story I was referencing earlier .
Speaker 2I'm glad you shared it . But the influence and impact of an older woman , yeah , and man Mark , both of us were involved in each other's weddings . I just barely got to know you then . You attended mine , but I was in yours . How long have you and Laura been married now ?
Speaker 3We got married August 21st 99 , so 25 . So a quarter of a century .
Speaker 2You add up all the time , all of us here have been married . That's just crazy when you think about it . But , mark , I just want to go back to that a little bit , just the whole selfish element in marriage , because it cripples , it just cripples couples .
Speaker 3And we don't know that it's happening right .
Speaker 3Because we begin to think , no , I deserve this . You don't know what I'm doing . You're over here , I'm doing these sort of things , and men can fall into this trap real easily . I'm away at work , I'm working eight to 10 hours a day , sometimes seven days a week , and I'm sorry , what are you doing ? You're at home doing what ? Can I come home to a meal ? Why is the house a mess ? Why are the kids running amok ? And we begin to think that we are an island onto ourselves and we want to build our kingdom . But you guys actually talk about a few very practical things and you can address any one of these . I'm going to give you three . Address any one of these three that you'd like to Say something encouraging to your spouse every day , or create a forgiveness framework and or , thirdly , celebrate small victories together . What do you think you go ?
Speaker 1first my love Ladies first .
Speaker 5Well , I think for Tone he is very much words of affirmation mean a lot to him , very much . Words of affirmation mean a lot to him . Now , for someone who does not speak for a living , that's harder for me , but I know it means a lot more to him and so , thinking of those things , I mean we used to write things on our arms to yeah , because you appreciate communication .
Speaker 1So you wanted to know how my day was going , and not just what I did , but how I felt about it . Right , and so early on I had to practice ways to , to , to give that to you , cause I didn't understand it . You know leaders or men , we go out and we warrior and create a legacy or whatever . Coming home and our wife's having a tough day with two babies and throws one at you and says give my bath , you know she wants to feel connected and bonded . So I actually would . I would write on my arm because back's pre-phone , and I would write on my arm two or three things just to make sure when I got home I could look at it and remember what they were and try to bond .
Speaker 1I think for me , the one I would say is conflict resolution . That was one that you mentioned right , like how to forgive that process instead of I think and I feel , and you always and you never but learning how to build in a culture of letting the little things go and then having a set aside time , whether that's a date night or a management period , you know time where you , the kids are parked , the kids are in bed or the kids have a babysitter and you actually sit and together go over any convictional issues that have kind of crept in , what Solomon calls , you know , foxes in the garden , any calendaring issues that have crept in or any cash money issues that have crept in . Those tend to be the three areas that the enemy will use to get in between a couple , unless there's time set apart to regularly assess and that includes conflict resolution . We need a time to do that .
Speaker 1If you just try to do that when the kids are yelling and you're going flying by and you give them a dirty look , that don't work . But if you can withhold and then sit down , write it out , say here's the problem , I've got some solutions on here , but I'd love to hear from you first
. It's amazing how four days later , three days later , two days later , a lot of the things we perceived in the moment aren't actually issues at all .
Speaker 2Yeah , maybe it's a played out buzzword , I don't know , man , but intentionality , intentionality in our marriages , like and when you talk about time , it's just crazy . You know , it's like we somehow subconsciously are deceived into thinking that valuable things can happen without time investment , right .
Speaker 3By chance , it just takes place .
Speaker 2It's just stupidity . It's like some dude's going to become Mr Universe without lifting a weight . You're going to summit Mount Everest without taking a step up the side of the mountain . That's insanity . But this is right , the definition of insanity . Same thing over and over again , expecting a different result . You honestly expect a different result when you're not investing time to talk as a couple . Why is our marriage falling apart ? You don't talk , you don't have good , healthy , intimacy , you don't forgive each other , you don't get in the word , you don't pray together and you're shocked your marriage is falling apart . You don't fill your car with gas and you're shocked . It keeps dying every week on the freeway . Like that's what I did wrong .
Speaker 2You don't learn . But , mark , you know , you said something . That just brought something to mind , of course .
Speaker 3I did .
Speaker 2For you young men listening , I call it the suicide question . What have you been doing all day ? Never ask your wife that . Sitting on your hands all day . Yeah , don't do that man .
Speaker 4I love that . We're kind of creeping into chapter four now and I'm dying to hear the Hairspray story in person . I read it , but I want to hear the story , the hairspray story , in person . Like , I read it , but I want to hear it , and I well . One thing that I love is that you guys are super vulnerable in the book . I think a lot of people will read those moments and go , oh man , like we're not , we're not doomed .
Speaker 1We're not as bad as the woods . Yeah , it's true .
Speaker 1Which I do have a question but first I want to hear the hairspray story for our listeners . Do you want to tell it ? No , you go for it ? Well , I got a perfect , doe-eyed woman that I've married . So we're married at this point , two years . We got one little one . Is Ethan born at that point ? Yeah , so we're in this little condo , it's hot summertime , we're going to church in the evening and air conditioning broke . So men , we know what happens . Hot is one of our issues . You get hot . So had a plan . You know I'm a detailed guy . So what did I do ? I I washed my dry my clothes , ironed them , had them all sitting out . My plan was do the cold shower , put my clothes on , run down , sit in the air conditioning car while she gets ready for 842 days right , so that was my plan .
Speaker 1So I have my plan going and then I walk out of the shower and then she's pulled the mirror because it was too hot , not in the bathroom pulled the stand-up mirror over by the bed and she's doing her hair . Now , mind you , the cans that this woman requires to do her hair are a fire extinguisher , it's that big , sexy hairspray .
Speaker 1It's like a red fire extinguisher . She's got that up on her knee and propped up and the molecules dance over her head and down onto my newly pressed clothes . And so I have felt that little thing inside , you know , and it's fleshly . It's wrong so , but I ate , you know . I tried to hold it down and it came out .
Speaker 3I said molecules and she looks up at me molecules , you know .
Speaker 1And then I snapped and I said you know , molecules , I have my clothes . And she goes , what are you you're talking about ? She picks up , she's like fine , and she goes down the hallway , goes into the bathroom and shuts the door . And then she said , little voice , if the show was on the other foot I wouldn't care . And I just , you know , young guy , I said , oh really .
Speaker 1So I walk back down the hallway and there's that little picky lock thing , you know , in the old houses you could take off the top of the door jamb to get in the little lock , and so I pick it open and we're only married a year and a half , two years and she's like I married a crazy man here's .
Speaker 2Johnny , that's exactly man .
Speaker 1The episode's like the Shining right and so she's peeled , peeled back in the bathroom and I peek in it wouldn't be a big deal , huh , and I grab the hairspray and I go , taking off down the hallway and looking over my shoulder , and I whip open the closet and I'm just Target acquired , you know , yellow shirt , blue shirt , the whole thing and I just start cutting loose and I'm looking back over my shoulder , she's peeking out the hallway and I remember , halfway through kind of freezing and thinking I'm gonna die I'm gonna die right now , long story a little bit shorter .
Speaker 1You know she closes the door and I immediately know it's like just that . You just oh the guilt , and I hear this little voice whimper , you know , out of the uh the bathroom . Uh , you know how girls voices go higher and higher when they cry , it's like only a dog can hear it .
Speaker 1She said do you even love me anymore ? And I'll tell you , oscar , the feeling of having a young wife . You've just walked the aisle and said in front of everybody , rich or poor , sickness , health , death to a swear . That moment was like what have I done Over molecules , right ? So that's the story . I'm not proud of it .
Speaker 2Wow , I was just going to say , tony , anytime I feel like a bad husband , I'm going to read that story .
Speaker 1All around the world , listeners of Living .
Speaker 2Waters . Thank you , brother . Feel good about yourself , that is the gift that I'll keep on giving Rachel look at me . I'm not like him .
Well , here's the idea of just celebrating small victories together when we begin to expect our spouse to change in huge chunks , or even ourselves . That I should be further along . Sure , I haven't attained , but I should be further along . Swindoll used to say three steps forward , two steps back . Three steps forward , two steps back . How do we practically celebrate little victories ? Little steps to give this affirmation . Little victories , little steps to give this affirmation . Even you know , we talk about saying something nice every day to our spouse . But if I want my spouse to change hugely , I should change in small ways , or I should recognize when they're taking those steps and maybe they may revert back and do something that they said that they would never do again . Or I do that same thing . But what does that small step look like of hey , we're moving , we are pressing forward , we're pushing onward ? What does that look like ?
Speaker 5A small step .
Speaker 3Incremental yeah .
Speaker 1I think it can start with either party , you know . But I would say I'll speak to the husband , you can speak to the wife and maybe , if you have a scripture for them , I go back to Ephesians 5 , and I go back to sacrificial leadership for the husband and I immediately begin thinking it does not matter at the end of the day what she's doing . You know , you're going to have to choose , like Christ , to come first and you're gonna have to lay down your life first . And I always picture it like a lighthouse , Like if there's a husband , he's in the home , his job is to stand up and say as for me and my house , this is what we're gonna do to serve the Lord , this is how we're gonna talk to one another , how we're gonna pray together .
Speaker 1This is what our family devotions are gonna be like . This is when we go to church , why we go to church and , honey , this is how I plan to serve you . And , even if it's incremental and small things , I will get up before you . You will see me on my knees doing my devotions . I'm going to model Christ's likeness and a pursuit of holiness for the home and for you . And the beautiful thing about a lighthouse is . It just stands up and it shines its light , and the ships in the harbor can choose to receive it and go to the right area , or they can choose to hit the rocks . But the point is he's doing what is right regardless , and so I always picture that as the husband's role . Do you want to add anything ?
Speaker 2for the ladies . Can I say something real quick before we go to Bree ? If people can grasp the profundity of what you just said because you said a lot there but the last part people might not . They might just kind of gloss over it . People will do what they're going to do , but you did what's right in the sight of the Lord . That is the pinnacle of true freedom in Christ . No one can touch my obedience to the Lord . I can't control anyone's reaction . We do the best we can , and I talk about this often . We can create the type of atmosphere that makes it more conducive for our spouse to do what they're called to do , or for anybody , but we can't control them . But we have the freedom to do the greatest thing that we can do on this planet and that's obey God . And if there's anything that has really been downplayed , it's the significance of obedience to the Lord .
Speaker 3And listen . Let's take that a step further , because we are fallen people living in a fallen world and we make fallen decisions . That when we mess up , we fess up . Right . Todd Friel had said your kids , your spouse , should know that you're the biggest sinner in the house . And what he meant by that is not that you are messing up more than anyone else , but you're always fessing up . That they're always seeing you take that step and saying I had a harsh word with mama this weekend you may or may not have seen that , or I did not treat you correctly in the midst of this that they're always seeing you move forward because you know , sure , obedience is absolutely that's it .
Speaker 3But what does that look like ? What does that obedience look like ? That obedience looks like ? But God ? But God who is rich in mercy ? Yeah , I messed up , but I'm moving forward . Come along with me . Yeah , I haven't done family devotions for the last three years , but we're doing family devotions tonight and I may not have it tomorrow , and when I come to that realization , we're going to have it that night as well , and it all circles back to obedience , because when you mess up in your obedience the obedient thing to do is to repent .
Speaker 2So that comes back into play there as well . But yeah , that freedom and that liberty of I live under Christ , and that's what matters at the end of the day . Because here's the thing , right , when someone is short-sighted and their obedience is always tied to outcome , they give up Because , okay , god , I'm doing what you called me to do . She's not changing , he's not changing . Oh well , I guess I'm done doing what I was doing . My doing , what I'm called to do is the end of it all . That's period . I'm obeying God and Lord , I pray , you work through it . I'm trying to create an atmosphere , but you do that . And again , you guys do a great job in the book , highlighting that we obey the Lord , we surrender to Him , we live unto His glory Easy .
Speaker 3Can you address for just a moment and you've done it several times in the past the idea of having your hands on the faucet ? You have the hot , you have the cold , you have the water , you're turning it . Explain it .
Speaker 2Right ? Well , I often talk about how our call is to walk in 1 Corinthians 13 love which is unconditional . It has nothing to do with the recipient , it gives for the sake of giving , expecting nothing in return . And the way it should look is like our spouse is like a crystal vase , and they're placed under the spout and we crank the knobs full blast . And each one of the little streamlets making up that thick course of water flowing in our spouse is representative of each attribute of agape love , patience and kindness and forgiveness and so forth . And that's how it should look .
Speaker 2We're called to pour the full flow of love into our spouse , independent of what they do or don't do . And most relationships start that way , at least ostensibly , by way of appearance , like you know . Oh , I love you and everything's great and it's flowing . But that day comes when he or she does that thing that rubs us the wrong way . Right , that little feeling that came up in you , Tony , with the hairspray . Right , the molecules . And what are we tempted to do ? We're tempted to reach out our grubby little fingers , grab a hold of those knobs and start turning them down a few notches . Which means what ? We're withholding patience , we're withholding kindness . And what is the capstone definition of love ? It doesn't fail , it doesn't end , it's unconditional .
Speaker 2And so I tell people look , when I have couples come to us and we're counseling them , I share this analogy and I say look , my question to you . I'm going to hear what you have to say about what they did , but I'm always going to come back to you and ask you one simple question Did ? But I'm always going to come back to you and ask you one simple question Did you touch the knobs ? Because you never have so much . You have no justification to so much as put a fingernail on those knobs , regardless of what they did or didn't do . You're not allowed to withhold patience and kind because they did this or didn't do that , you know . So , yeah , that's key . But , bree , we were going to have you say something and I interrupted . I'm so sorry .
Speaker 5I can't remember , but just to add to what you were saying I worried about that .
Speaker 2I'm like no , I'm so sorry .
Speaker 5But thinking too with what you were saying .
Speaker 5I mean , philippians 3 talks about our inheritances in heaven , and so often we're so focused on getting glory for ourselves and or not receiving something that we forget the command that God's called us to in a marriage .
Speaker 5And you know , in Ephesians 5 , 33 , it says nevertheless , let each individual among you also love his own wife even as himself , and let the wife see to it that she respect her husband . And so my respect for my husband isn't contingent upon what he has done for me , it's contingent upon my love for the Lord and my devotion for the Lord . And so , just each morning , I think , with a little step that you can take is putting before the Lord . How can I have a heavenly mindset ? You know how I'm loving my husband . How can I have a heavenly mindset with how I respect him today , the things that I say , the things that I don't say , the things that I do , the things that I say , the things that I don't say , the things that I do , the things that I pray by the Holy Spirit's power that I don't do , and really just putting before that .
Speaker 4Amen , I would love . The reason why I wanted to bring up the hairspray wasn't just to make you look like a psychopath .
Speaker 5I'm a psychopath too , by the way .
Speaker 4No , I read that and I'm like dude . He's a psychopath .
Speaker 5But although I'm a psychopath . No , I read that I'm like dude , he's a psychopath .
Speaker 4But although I'm a psychopath because I have to imagine that there are so many couples out there that heard that story just now and are like we got a hundred of those I've done that in a hundred different ways and it reminds me of Paul Tripp's book what Did you Expect ? He talks about how , like these little arguments , these small things started as small cracks and they turn if we don't pay attention to them . These small little cracks in our foundation becomes large crevices , just caverns . It gets harder and harder and so some couple out there is probably just feeling the sense of their caverns . They've got a hundred of those stories . What would you say to that couple right now ? That's listening going . Man , how do we even recover from 50 hairspray conversations ? Yeah , immediately .
Speaker 1I go to the overflow of the heart . The mouth speaks , and so watch over your heart , for from it for the springs of life , like at the end of the day , you've got to begin there , with the root , and so getting on your knees and really coming to terms , like Bree mentioned , whether it's the guy or the gal coming to terms with the Lord , about who you are in Christ , about the sins that you've committed and having those confessed , making sure you've repented to your spouse and that really was I joked about it , but that really was part of our story Five years married and I get that phone call and I'm driving home thinking is she leaving me ? Because all it was was a girl on tears saying you got to come home right now from work . I'm at the church office , and so I'm driving home and I'm preparing myself . Okay , lord , something's happened . And I come upstairs and she's sitting on the bed and she's a wreck . And I sit down next to her and I say , okay , sweetie , what's going on ? And she starts confessing everything .
Speaker 1She had read chapter 20 of Love Dare and that's just funny . Out of all the books , it's that one you know . And she hit the gospel section because the whole idea is I'm going to get this book and it's going to fix our marriage . You get to chapter 20 and the Lord goes I'm going to save you , and she falls to her knees , begins to cry , and so by the time I get there , she's just going through every single sin all the way back to the age of four .
Speaker 1This happened to me . I've never told anybody . I chose to do this . I've never told anybody , and my wife was a new creature , a new creation in Christ .
Speaker 1And so you talk about the gospel and , oscar , you bring up a question like that Without taking the gospel and pulling that over us and beginning there .
Speaker 1It doesn't matter how much marital counseling you go to , it doesn't matter how many books you read little red books or little white books or little blue books At the end of the day you have to come to grips with the fact that there was one who came and he lived the life that you never could have lived and he paid the penalty that you should have paid and he rose again on the third day , according to the scriptures , and he offers you his life , and when that clicks , you go for the rest of my life back to obedience .
Speaker 1I will do anything it takes to please him and therefore to work and fight for my marriage , and so that would be my heart's cry to anybody who's listening . And you're right , we've done enough counseling in our day to know hairspraying clothes is the least of it . We have people come in and how many fairs and prostitutes and pornography , and they're layers deep and hardened in sin . But the answer is the same , and so I would . I want to throw them back to the gospel of Jesus . I think to say anything else other than starting with the heart would be to offer . You know , I can't think of a good analogy .
Speaker 2And find a good biblical counselor . Yeah , you know .
Speaker 5Can you say that again , sweetie , I said , and find a good biblical counselor .
Speaker 1Somebody who can walk with you through that journey ? Yeah , amen .
Speaker 2Yeah , a good church . Yeah , well , I was going to actually
head toward that . One of the chapters in your book is find a church to help the home . But before that , I just want to highlight what you said , tony . You know , gospel centricity , man , is massive , you know , and this is so missed today . Right , it's the gospel as a solution in terms of redemption , it's a tool of salvation , but it's beyond that . It's a treasure house of spiritual riches from which we live . The gospel informs and touches every area of our lives as believers , and that includes our marriages and our family life . So we've talked a lot , obviously , about marriage , and , I think , appropriately so , but the book's also about family , about your kids and your household and your home , and that all trickles over . But I'd love you to touch on some of that and get into parenting and family and all that in the time we have left . But also , yeah , how does a local church play a role in all that ?
Speaker 1I think the local church would be . If you're trying to fight , it's your army and it gives you the battle plan , it gives you the troops on either side , and anybody who's ever been on a sports team can immediately testify to the fact . There's times you're feeling good , there's times you're not . But when you go in the locker room and you get revved up by your teammate and he says , hey , we're going to go back out , we're going to win the third and fourth quarter . If you can't go , I'll carry you through this thing , we're going to tear down the goalposts for victory , I think you realize the power of a team .
Speaker 1Yeah , and that's what happens with a church the authority of God's word , the sufficiency of scripture , and you submit yourself to that . And then you got this group that comes alongside you and says that side you and says that thing , right there , we're going to obey , and even when things are hard , we're going to obey , and you're not doing it alone . And so a local church is key , expository , preaching , or a church that just preaches the Bible , making sure you're at a church where there's some level of communication between the elders and the congregation , so that you know when people are in sin you're not just solo . You're not a lone ranger in a local church that is fired up and passionate for evangelism , and so just making sure you're in a healthy local church is key .
Speaker 4This was my favorite chapter you guys wrote because I think it's so important , so often overlooked . And what I've seen is that there are couples that think they have their people , and sometimes their people are even in the church , but it's like when the guy goes to the guys , they just harp on the wives , wives , and the wives go to the wives and they just harp on the wives . But a gospel-centered community that's rooted in god's inerrant word is holding marriages accountable to god's definition of marriage .
Speaker 4And so those boys , they're holding their man accountable , not just like , oh yeah , I didn't know true . And the ladies are holding their women accountable to a biblical standard . It's my favorite one because it's a testimony to my marriage . Like my , I was shamedly a young , promiscuous guy . My mom had four divorces . I had no idea what a biblical marriage looked like . My wife was an unbeliever out of an abusive marriage . You know , we just the odds were stacked against us . Statistically speaking , we were set up to fail and I can tell you those first few years , being rooted in a biblical church and having men and women invest into who we were , holding me accountable as a leader and as a man , encouraging my wife as a servant man , it radically created an incredible foundation for our marriage that bucked all the stats that are out there , because that's what the gospel does . Yeah , amen , that's great .
Speaker 2You know , abri , I wanted to ask you . I mean , you guys are parents , you have three children and it's been a joy to see the fruit of your godly marriage impact your children . And my daughter Kylie and your daughter Peyton are buddies right , they hang out . Tony , you love Kylie's car .
Speaker 1I do Her cool little car .
Speaker 2Hell yeah , she's 4 to 11 . You can't even see her head . It looks like a self-driving car man , but we've been so blessed because Peyton's been such a blessing to Kylie . You know that godliness and sweetness , but speak to that like how a marriage can positively or negatively affect children and parenting .
Speaker 5Absolutely . And just to say , kylie's been such a blessing to Peyton . How she speaks of her . It makes me want to run down there and be like hi .
Speaker 4Kylie , but I don't want to be the creepy mom .
Speaker 5But I think , in regards to your question I'm drawing a blank right now what you actually asked .
Speaker 2I'd asked how a godly marriage can impact negatively or positively children and parenting .
Speaker 5Yes , To hear Peyton tell the doctor . The doctor asks her every year what do you want to be when you grow up ? And her answer for this last six years has been I want to be a mom and a wife , and that has been really , really special to see God's grace .
Speaker 5That is not a testament to how good Tony and I have done , because we have had to come to them countless times . Because we have had to come to them countless times and we'll have to continue to ask for forgiveness for not being an example in a certain way or not doing what God's asked us to . But I think , just coming back to forgiveness and knowing that we are all on different paths of sanctification , we're all striving to serve Christ , but to continue to come to them and apologize when we've wronged them or I've had to come countless times to where I have not submitted to my husband and I have responded in a way that has been rude or a better word would be , and so I think , coming back to that and just constantly showing them that it's God's word that we're living by , it's not mom and dad are nailing it , that's what I would say the authority of scripture as opposed to .
Speaker 1I think and I feel and this month we're doing this and this month we're grab this book and doing this , just trying to always center that the authority in our home is not just the Bible for you guys , it's the Bible for us as well , and I think that provides a centering point . It provides an avenue where we're all running the race together and we even have times . I mean , she is so self-deprecating , but obviously she's the spiritual one in the family and she puts up with me and you make it sound like I have to put up with you , but it really is amazing how many times you will have a family unit come together and even the kids will say hey , mama , I think this might be a Proverbs X , y and Z issue and you begin to talk through the authority of the Bible and it really does transform a home .
Speaker 3You know Spurgeon said train up a child in the way you should go , but be sure you're going that way yourself . I was making a list earlier today to send out to my Ohana , my family text thread , of things that I want my kids to always be able to hit me up . We're leaving the house , dad , did you grab the tracks ? Dad , how was your time with Mom today ? Did you celebrate those little victories today ? Did you say something nice to mom today ? Those little reminders , those continual things . To be an example in order to say imitate me as I imitate Christ , is a huge thing to be able to say and I remember saying that a couple times imitate me as I imitate Christ . And I just fall on my face and I just do something just horrific inside , inside my eyes . But the idea is to be an example , is to be vulnerable , is to allow your kids in , to allow that your spouse in . I'm struggling with these things . I want you to keep me accountable .
Speaker 3Many years ago , easy had coming to me , said , hey , listen , no matter how much it hurts , I want you to just know that you can come and talk to me about anything . So if you see egg on my face , I just want to say you have permission to just say so , just preface it with this . Remember that time you told me that I should be able to come to you and talk . Remember this Easy , absolutely . And so from time to time I'll go to Easy and I go listen . I think that there's something happening that you're just not aware of , and that is a great way , a great approach with your kids , with my son Tanny , or any of my other four kids .
Speaker 1So Tanny's here today , you know , and having him as a member of our church , as a young man that everybody respects , I think that's important to be said . Oscar , I've not had a chance to meet your family , the privilege of meeting your family , yet , but EZ , your family is ahead of us a couple of years in the race and Mark , your family is ahead of us a few years in the race . We look up to you guys and the way that your children are living for the Lord , and so thank you for your model and example to us . Even with Tani , who really is a body and soul member of our church who touches a lot of lives , God has been so gracious and kind .
Speaker 2You look back and you think of what your concepts were of marriage , of parenting , and you're like man , what was I thinking ? And again , textbook is one thing , but when you're living it out and you're experiencing it , you end up realizing man , where would we be without the sufficiency man , where would we be without the sufficiency of Scripture ? Where would we be without God's Word ? You know , you have the world trying to figure it out and I've used this description before , but it's literally like a boat , lost at sea , without any sails , without any oars , without a motor , without a compass . I mean people trying to figure out life without the author of life , without the instruction manual on life . It's insanity and the grace of God . All of us here have talked about our failures and our weaknesses . All of that is a testimony to the grace and the mercy of God , his patience with us and His call to us to run to Him that he would give us mercy and help in time of need , boldly . So your book helps people to do that . Guys , it's phenomenal and for those of you listening , I just want to whet your appetite .
Speaker 2Here are some of the chapter titles Build your Home on the Rock . Put Hubby in the Driver Seat . I like that one . Don't Let Feminists Run you Off when you Fight . Fight Fair . Make Love , not Lust , pennies Proof Priorities . Set the Fence for Relatives . Treat your Body Like His Temple . Develop a Winning Game Plan , Correct from Love , not Hate . Find a Church to Help the Home and Divorce Proof your Marriage I mean that in and of itself , was a devotional right there .
Speaker 2Right , I mean packed with content , but bite-sized to where it's not overwhelming . Very practical , very interactive . And so , friends , we wanna encourage you to check it out Again Little Red Book for Marriage and Family , 12 Principles for Relational Thriving and check out Mission Bible Church Costa Mesa . Look them up If you're in the area you're visiting or if you're looking for a new home church , biblically based and full of love and life and action . They're out there sharing the gospel . They're out there interacting with the lost on so many levels . So there you have it , friends . Some people get lost in the woods . Today , we got found in the woods . Thank you for joining us , friends . We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast , where we not Tony and Bree , we , we three have no idea what we're doing .