I write poetry, but I send it off to him on a helium balloon. And that everybody that I would even talk to would think that that is the craziest thing in the world. But it's me dancing before the Lord in my ephod. It's me going before the Lord and just saying, Lord, this is my heart, this is my chest, this is my being, this is what I have. And I don't want anybody else to know this. I write songs, but I don't let anybody hear those songs. That it is for the Lord. This is what I do. And I can't imagine what you have, you know, before the Lord. If you're giving us this to be on display, but our hearts are on display before the Lord at all times. And if we were to recognize and realize that he's a very present help in time of need, that in his presence is fullness of joy. That all of his waves they billow over me. You know, it's said that I understand that. I I understand that idea of that the waves and the weariness and where I want to give up and I want to I want to shout and I've screamed until I've I've had no more tears left inside my eyes. Welcome to life. This is life. This is just this is just walking with God. Walking with God and and he's there and he's not gonna put out that smoldering wick. He's he's not ever going to look the other way. He's never gonna be blinking because he'll be taking his eyes off of me.
I I've had deep despair where I've Googled how to commit suicide and make it look like an accident while I've had kids. I get it. I understand. I understand the idea of being despairing of life.
SPEAKER_04Sometimes I like to make admissions. One of the things I love in life is definitions. Oh, you guys can't you can't beatbox, you can't like I can beatbox, like background dance. Why would we want to?
SPEAKER_08We don't want to encourage you. No, you want to encourage me. Mark's great at the ribbon dance. The w what is it? The ribbon. Oh, the ribbons. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Dancing screamers in the churches. What I would do to see you guys in tights and screamers around here. Woo! Yeah. So I love definitions. I'm gonna read one right now. That was actually good. What's the definition? What is that right there, Rachel? Death. Let's go. See what I go through? Try again. It's the woman you gave me.
SPEAKER_02What's the definition?
SPEAKER_04What?
SPEAKER_02What's the definition? How do you define definition? I would just define it. What's the definition?
SPEAKER_04Go ahead. I'm gonna define this word. Listen, listen closely. Bliss, which means, well, what do you guys think it means? It means happiness.
SPEAKER_07And I had a I had a I had a principal, associate principal, who was called Mr. Bliss, and his name terrifies me. It's like a little pedler. He used to creep up behind students and yell at them.
SPEAKER_04So when you hear the word bliss, Oh yeah, yeah, what happened?
SPEAKER_07He would come into the assembly hall and just say, Quiet in the hall. And everyone would just be terrified because he'd cane you. He was just a nasty dude. Anyway, my friend Jeff Robinson, before the associate principal would come in, would say, Quiet in the hole! He'd imitate him, and the whole 800 people would go dead. No, no, no, no, that was that was the principal. I'm talking about the assistant principal. Oh, the assistant principal. I didn't I would never do that. No, an assistant principal. Just the principal.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Anyway, this guy, the same guy, Jeff Robinson, would follow the trash cart and he'd call out, Right! And the driver would take off while they're talking still tipping trash into the car.
SPEAKER_03You know what this is reminding me of? You're on airplanes. That's right.
SPEAKER_07No, no, no.
SPEAKER_03That's really good, actually. That's really good. 2,000 flights. 2,000 flights. Yeah, right. All right, friends. The definition of Supreme Contentment. Get out of here.
SPEAKER_07What do you think about the talking?
SPEAKER_08That sounds pretty good. Supreme Contentment.
SPEAKER_03By the way, friends, that uh cute, squeaky, laughing voice you're hearing is right.
SPEAKER_04We'll tell you who that is in a second for those of you that are listening, our mystery guest. Bliss. No, Ray, you were wrong. It's not happiness. Supreme happiness. Utter joy. I'm sorry. Or contentment. Shame on you. So I used to think I knew.
SPEAKER_07I feel bliss whenever I feel bliss whenever you stop rapping.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. You know, that would be a good word to rap with. Bliss.
SPEAKER_07You couldn't rap.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I got bliss. I can't miss. I'm gonna tell you that and tell you this. Ooh.
SPEAKER_07Oh, means you've run out.
SPEAKER_04Mark gave me a mm-mm. That was good. All right, here it is. The definition of bliss. Oh, I said supreme happiness, utter joy, or contentment. I used to think I knew what it meant until yesterday. When Rachel sent me a video of our ring doorbell, of my little two-year-old grandson Archer calling out to me. He rang the doorbell because sometimes I'll show up to the door, and so I'll, you know, I'll answer while I'm here at work. So he's thinking I like live in the doorbell. And so yesterday he does it and he goes, Tops, tops, he calls me tops. It started out as pus. He used to call me pus. He was right the first time. Elevated the tops on the tops. He was right the first time. So that's bliss. That is bliss. I saved
it on my phone. I put the heart on it to save it in my favorites.
SPEAKER_03Tops, tops.
SPEAKER_04Oh boy. Speaking of grandchildren, friends! Ray Comfort has a grandchild here today.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Dulia.
SPEAKER_04I was gonna say you call her Dulia.
SPEAKER_03Julia Rose Wayne, my daughter. Hello. Good to have you with us. That's welcome, Julia Rose Wayne.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. By the way, what many of you don't know is Julia, when she was still in the womb, was represented by a cashew in a Tic Tac container on Ray's fridge. Is that right, Ray?
SPEAKER_07Yes. I thought that's what I did not know about that. You didn't? What? So I said, this is what the baby looks like right now. Yes. Yeah. And when she did look how she tuned out. I know.
SPEAKER_08They almost named you Cashew.
SPEAKER_07We could do a kid's book about the birth of a child starting with a cashew.
SPEAKER_04Cashew. Yeah. Yeah. So we have Julia Rose Zwain here with us today. Great to have you, Julia. Happy to be here. Kindergarten teacher. Oh my god. And Julia got her.
SPEAKER_07She's gorgeous. She got your looks. That's where they went to. Yeah, the eyeballs.
SPEAKER_04That's true. People tell you you look like me, Julia.
SPEAKER_02Julia, what what time were you born? Do you remember? I mean, Julia. Because I was actually supposed to hang out with your father, and I remember knocking on the door, which I ended up moving into, and Easy had answered the door, and he said, Didn't you did you hear Julia was born? And so we were supposed to hang out on that day. Yeah. And uh instead, you cleaned up. So you're the oldest of the grandchildren.
SPEAKER_07And I remember the the second I saw you, and it was horrific.
SPEAKER_06What?
SPEAKER_07Let me tell you why. Why your mother turned you to me and said, There's Gramps. Oh, that's right. I've never forgotten that. I thought, what? I just got here and get pushed into Grimps? Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Julia, you remember what grandpa tried to get you guys to call him?
SPEAKER_01No.
SPEAKER_04Forefather. Oh, forefather.
SPEAKER_01And it was super dead.
SPEAKER_07Nothing would work. It went back to Grandpa.
SPEAKER_04Supreme Leader. Yeah. Supreme Leader? That's for sure. Supreme Leader. Yeah, so Julia's here today with us for a very special reason. Julia has become an authorette, believe it or not. All things broken and beautiful. Julia, this is actually not your first book, though, is it?
SPEAKER_01It's not.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_01She co-authored my first one with my grandpa. I can't even remember what year that was. It was a while ago. Yeah. Novelized.
SPEAKER_07You were 18 months old.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Out of the movie, that was a cashew.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. What was the movie called? Now I'm trying to. Novelized Audacity. But even before that, they were never published, but you wrote three or four or something.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I worked on some novels. I cringe a little bit when I go back and read them, but they're out there.
SPEAKER_07They're out there?
SPEAKER_01I mean, they're out there somewhere on my computer.
SPEAKER_07Like your dad. He's out.
SPEAKER_01Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Oh boy. I knew I was in for this, bringing my daughter on here. But no, Julia. You know, it's funny because I get I get flashbacks, memories of being at grandma's and grandpa's, which is cool. They've had the same house your whole life, but sitting on the kitchen floor with a little, I think it was orange. Was it orange? The Gideon's Bible.
SPEAKER_01The New Testament. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04And you would just sit there and flip. Like you seriously, I felt like we'd leave you there for hours. You couldn't read it. So you've always loved, you've always loved the the written word. And um, and then uh, and then you you went, you became an English major, graduated with an English degree, and became a teacher.
Yes. And you wrote a book, All Things Broken and Beautiful. And today we're gonna talk about it. Isn't that a good cover, Oscar? I don't care. All right, France, time for a cool classy comment. This is from Max Halliday. Hello, my name is Max. I'm 21 years old, and I love the podcast, as it has brought much joy to my soul over the last couple of years. I have told many people about the podcast as it has been such a great encouragement. The biggest thing, though, is I am so grateful for your faithfulness in evangelism. I was saved through one of the one of Ray's videos. Going through the law, I was terrified. It humbled me to the cross. How beautiful it was that a wretch like me could be saved and adopted into God's family. I would like to share that your ministry has also equipped me and many others here in Edinburgh, Scotland. Ray New Year's. I just like my brain already processed he was gonna do that because he always does that. So wait, what is that? Haggis? What? Who? Loch Haggis Lochnitz. So those are just Scottish.
SPEAKER_07Loch Niss is the monster. Haggis is a sheep's stomach, which was what they eat along with chapens pie. And kilt is the little mini skirt they wear.
SPEAKER_04What would it take to get you to wear a kilt?
SPEAKER_07Oh, I wouldn't mind wearing a kilt as long as you play the bagpipes.
unknownOh no.
SPEAKER_04Unsafe. Sorry, our Scottish friends. I don't like the bagpipe.
SPEAKER_07You don't like the bag pipe?
SPEAKER_04Where was I?
SPEAKER_07Todd Friel, Todd Friel hates the bagpipes also. I love them. I love them. Yeah, they're beautiful. Amazing grace is just amazing.
SPEAKER_04We love the Scottish people. Me and my mother here in Ember to go out and evangelize on the busy streets and in our daily lives, using the law, then bringing the gospel. We do this by open-air preaching, question of the day, and track giving photos attached. He sent us a photo. So cool. Wow. I'm emailing to express my thanks to you all for your faithfulness. Uh praise God, for he is using you to strengthen the church around the globe. Also to see if it would be possible to meet one of you as you go out on the street and evangelize with you, learn from you. I will be in California from the 26th to September 2nd, uh, to September wait, 26th of September. I write it backwards there, to the 2nd of October on my honeymoon. I know you guys will be super busy. I understand it is very late notice. I would love it if it could be possible. P.S. Easy's the best host.
SPEAKER_03PPS, it's okay. That's why it's reading.
SPEAKER_04No, no, no. PPS, it was uh my brilliant beautiful wife's idea about trying to meet you guys while on honeymoon. Praise God for a beautiful boy. That's lovely. Max, I already asked one of our assistants to contact you guys so you can come see us here at the mission while you're here. And if you're here on a Saturday, you can meet Ray and Huntington Beach.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, Saturday mornings, Huntington Beach, uh about 9:30 till 11. I'm always on the pier.
SPEAKER_04Nice. Did you extend the time now because of coffee?
SPEAKER_07A little. I might stay an open air preach. I told Scotty this morning. I was thinking that. I was thinking you're now you'll have the energy. That's the coffee that did it.
SPEAKER_01I just discovered this like two minutes ago. He started drinking coffee. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah. Grandpa's a new coffee man.
SPEAKER_07Hang on. I'm just gonna do some cartwheels across the floor.
SPEAKER_04Seriously. Last episode we couldn't hold them back.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. All right, friends. Oh, wait, there's something else. Oh, and now we're radical revolutionary resources podcast is my theme! By what?
SPEAKER_04All things broken and beautiful by Julia Rose Wayne. You can get it here at our ministry.
SPEAKER_03Don't forget the Living Waters mug and have an study Bible.
SPEAKER_07You can also get it where good books are sold. Yeah, also where good books are sold.
SPEAKER_03And don't forget the Living Waters TV! Oh Living Waters. You need coffee. You need coffee.
SPEAKER_04And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel with tens of thousands of subscribers.
Subscribe today. I felt like one of the Muppets right there. You look like a Muppets.
SPEAKER_07You look like both. Oh good. You're aging. You look like both the butterflies. Wow, man.
SPEAKER_08This is why you don't have to be nervous, Julia. Because there's nothing more embarrassing to you than what Easy does.
SPEAKER_07You look like one of the Muppets that's animal.
SPEAKER_04Animal. Yeah. Animal. Seriously, the Muppets are amazing, man. All right, bring it. Squirrel. So today we're talking about finding beauty and brokenness, all things broken and beautiful. Julia, um, how long did it take to write the book?
SPEAKER_01Well, a few years actually, because it's a compilation. So I just would write on the spot and then add it to a document. And I've just been compiling it for a while, so I can't really put an example.
SPEAKER_04Yes, from the womb. Poems of Lament. Yeah. Yeah. You know, Julia, I was thinking back to the first time I realized, because you know, I, you know, I've written poetry all my life, and I would give you little tips here and there and review your poetry, but I'll never forget that day we sat in in our room and you read us uh that that poem. It was the one about um um buzzing bees and oh hiding place. Oh hiding place. Oh my goodness. In fact, I've that one's in the book.
SPEAKER_08Is it in the book? Yeah, it is. Oh, you haven't read the book? Wait a minute.
SPEAKER_04No, I told you to put it in. Remember? You didn't want to put it in. I said you have to.
SPEAKER_07Why don't you read it to it? Can you read it to us? It's pretty that one's pretty long. Well, you can read us too. Maybe I could read a little bit. Just how much paper is that?
SPEAKER_01Maybe the last part of it.
SPEAKER_06You remember what it is?
SPEAKER_01Is the table of contents in the front that can.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, while the looking one, Oscar, give your testimony.
SPEAKER_01It all started in the page 112.
SPEAKER_04112. Okay, I do have to, it's a good, good place to read it. I'd have to read some of it. And you were, I think you were about 14, Julia, when you wrote this. If I remember.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was in high school.
SPEAKER_04All right, hiding place. Twining flowers, sprawling trees.
SPEAKER_02Can she read it, please?
SPEAKER_04No, I'm gonna read this one. I'll read a little bit of it. Twining flowers, sprawling trees, curling vines and buzzing bees, velvet grass and babbling streams fading by like pleasant dreams, swirling petals in the breeze, salty wind from distant seas, puffy clouds against the sky, past the birds that swoop and fly, colors dancing in the sun, sunlight gleaming as I run, through the meadow, through the glade, through the beech trees, soothing shade, dashing, splashing, dancing, spinning, racing deer and never winning, sending dewdrops through the air, throwing leaves without a care, little sparrows, melodies floating down from apple trees, rabbits leaping, owls nesting, foxes prancing, badgers resting. I can hear the wind that sighs, I can see the butterflies, I can feel the sun and breeze, I can smell the cherry trees, but I can't stop to watch and look. I run while clinging. Oh, you're gonna cry?
SPEAKER_06Oh boy.
SPEAKER_07It says idiot? Okay, I'll put that one in there in poems and tears by Neils Morning.
SPEAKER_04But I can't stop to watch and look. I run while clinging to a book. I run as if I'm in a race to find a certain secret place, dodging, stumbling, ducking, leaping, through the briars always creeping, heading for the distant creek. I near the secret place I seek, maple trees with leaves aflame, bending without any shame, give me shelter, give me shade, as I scamper through the glade, barefoot tramping through the leaves, gazing up and at hanging eaves, hugging close the sacred book, I listen to the nearing brook,
winding paths and bending lanes, beaten down by storms and rains, lead me to a sunlight light lead me on as sunlight shimmers through the trees with golden glimmers, faster, faster, almost there. Gusts of wind blew up through my hair, tripping, stumbling, nearly falling. I can hear my river calling, following the path ahead, wreathed with leaves, the trees had shed. I turn the corner round the bed and race ahead to see my friend.
SPEAKER_06I can't do it! What happened?
SPEAKER_07She's hitting somewhere. We're gonna know what happened. I'm gonna saw the book. And then I saw you.
SPEAKER_04That sounds pretty good. Oh man.
SPEAKER_07Anyways, um so that did climax to something wonderful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, spending time with the Lord and stuff, and uh, but Julia, that poem still gets me because to me it was more than than something I could reflect on for myself as a believer, like running to be with alone with the Lord, but it was my daughter who was bearing fruit and who loved Jesus at 14 years old, you know. And um yeah, so anyway, awesome.
SPEAKER_08I um I I read poetry pretty frequently right now. I've got William Blake on the side of my bed. And so when I got the PDF, I was super excited to read your book. Um I have a question for you. Yeah, why on despair?
SPEAKER_01I think that because that's where the Lord has met me the most, is in my despair, and that's where I've come to know my father and see his goodness is in the pit and is in the darkness, is and that's why my book is titled That All Things Broken and Beautiful, because that's when I've had the sweetest moments with the Lord, is when I've been in those broken times.
SPEAKER_08That's awesome. I can I can I pick that up as I read it, like as I was reading, and I I saw moments of confession, moments of desperation, but ultimately um I saw a poet like holding on to the goodness and the promises of God. So it was really it's a book about despair that's incredibly encouraging and beautiful.
SPEAKER_02It's reflective of King David, isn't it? You know, that I mean all the things that he had gone through. I I I remember the first time I was introduced to your ability to do anything like this was at your sister's wedding. When you did that spoken word, I remember just absolutely beside myself that you were able to orchestrate that and memorize that and deliver that in such a way, like when you were done, I'm like, what just happened? What a gifting the Lord has given you. And obviously, with the gifting, there takes the responsibility, right? To be able to grab a hold of that, to cultivate that. And now you put it into writing, and I'm very excited to be able to read it. I haven't an advanced copy yet, but I will buy one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you know, um, yeah, that was that was amazing. And you surprise us.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I kept it a secret because we had no idea.
SPEAKER_04But you didn't hear that. No, I hadn't heard it. I mean, she was she was a maid of honor, so we knew she was gonna give a speech, but she gets up, and uh you were there, Oscar. Yeah, remember too. It was a mic drop moment, and she gets up, and she's like, and I'm like, what? She's gonna drop a spoken word right now. And my favorite is because we have video of the of of her doing it, and you see the DJ in the back, and he's like, he was like wiping his eyes. Yeah, hilarious.
SPEAKER_02He's getting down. I take it that's not in the book on brokenness.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so so honey, you you uh you have an amazing gift. And I mean,
again, honestly, it would fill at least a few gallons if we were to collect all the tears mom and I have shed over the years as you've read as you've read us this poetry you've written. And I'm so glad that you've you've combined it into this this book now that people uh can get today. If you're listening, it's available today uh at Living Waters. And so make sure you're gonna be able to do it. Yeah, River Good Books are sold. Um, you know, Ray, I I'd love you to jump in here because you've you've gone through brokenness.
SPEAKER_07And I've also written poems.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Little Julia. No, little Rachel nice and sweet. No, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_07Little girl so sweet and nice comes. I wrote it down. Yes, little girl so sweet and nice comes to daddy for advice, climbs up to sit upon his knee, all his faults she cannot see. And that's all I'm saying. Because what comes next? Roses are red. Roses are red, violets are blue, some palms rhyme, some don't.
SPEAKER_04Uh yeah, that's uh so your brokenness.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I uh yeah. Toza said before God uses a man, God breaks a man. And I remember I was utterly broken um probably about 40 years ago, just destroyed, but I couldn't have a meal with my family for a year. Couldn't look them in the eye, couldn't stand the traumatic feeling of having me with my meal with my family. And yet I had to keep itinerating and speaking, and I'd end up behind some curtain, lying on the ground, just pleading with God to help me speak because I was so broken. And it it really comes back to a stallion. If you've got a stallion, a wild horse, it's useless to man, it's beautiful, but it's useless to man. It's spirit must be broken. And once that spirit is broken, and when you watch a horse get broken, it's just amazing. They are barking and jumping, and suddenly it just goes quiet. And they put a harness on it and say, Go to the left, go to the right, and it does what it's told. And that's what God wants: a broken spirit, a contrite heart. So that when he says turn to the left, you go to the left. When he centers to the when he says turn to the right, you go to the right, because you've got a broken spirit, and it's painful to have that saddle put on you. Really is at first.
SPEAKER_04You know, uh yesterday I remember the spot I was in my house. I was um in the hallway, and and the thought occurred to me of boasting and in my ability to preach, like the thought of if I were to boast in my ability to preach or be confident about going up to the pulpit. And I I trembled because the Lord has taken me through through some different things that have caused me to be desperately broken. And uh and and yet if I were to go back to my earlier days when I was preaching, uh I I I had a real confidence. I had a real just this I couldn't explain it, but it was this like deep strength that I felt, and this confidence and freedom at the pulpit.
SPEAKER_07Is that because of the unnatural ability?
SPEAKER_04I I I I don't know what it was back then, but it was distinct. God was opening massive doors. I was I was I mean, I was very young. I remember I was 21. I got invited to speak at one of the biggest churches in America and to do their men's retreat. And and I remember when I got the invite, I remember we had the answering machine at home. Uh, and back then you had answering machines, but I was playing the the message, and I'm and Rachel's there, I'm like, I think this church wants me to do their junior high retreat. And then the guy keeps talking, I'm like, high school, college, and I'm like, men's retreat. I remember I remember when I went,
I took this Italian guy, you might remember Rick Mariello, of course. And I took Rick with me to that retreat. And I go, Rick, they've never seen me. A pastor sent uh my message, I asked him to speak, he sent a tape of my message and said, Um, you know, invite this guy. So anyway, they hadn't seen me. And I go to Rick, I said, Rick, they're gonna think you're the speaker. They they've never seen he was about 40, I'm 21. So anyway, we get there and we're in the the dorm area, and I'm up in my room, I'd met the guys and stuff, and I hear one of them say to the other one, Oh, yeah, I met the speaker, he's this really cool little Italian guy. I'm like, see, I told you. And so, so um, but God was just opening doors using me, but and I felt this deep strain, like I could preach anywhere at any time for hours on end, you know. But then the Lord took me through some deep, deep, deep brokenness, and that's gone. God's using me more than ever. My my reach is bigger than ever, but man, I tremble, you know. Uh I tremble because I I fear dishonoring the Lord and I know I can't preach without Him. You know, and so there's that upside of brokenness.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, I think, and I I we've I know we've talked about this before, but you know, lament is a lost gift in the church today. I feel like we show up at church on Sundays and we gotta wear a Sunday breathe and feel like we've got it all together. And when people say, How are you? it's either good or busy and don't say anything else because then you make them feel awkward. We've all got like, I don't know, preachers don't usually preach on lament. And what it does with for people experiencing despair, I think often they don't have a language.
SPEAKER_07They don't could you define lament? It's a very old word.
SPEAKER_08It is, yeah. Uh lament is uh I I would call it worshipful despair. It's a despair that reminds our souls in the hope in God. And on that, like I as I was reading this, it it reminded me of of the Psalms of Lament that were so worshipful. And this is actually Dust Collector, I think, was my favorite one. I'll just read the first half. And I'm not gonna cry.
SPEAKER_07You might.
SPEAKER_08I might know. Uh, I want to know why I shroud the cloudless vibrancy of my world with the fog of hippo I knew I was gonna mess that word up. Hypothetical terrors. Hey, you could start again and we could enter it, but explain to this miserable soul why all things beautiful are trampled by the feet of my wandering thoughts. Am I on a witch hunt for the things that do not exist? I dump water on the peaceful fire fire that is my life to obliterate any chance of mass destruction, and then I wonder why I'm so terribly cold. You must stop this. You must run with joy into the wings of a glorious morning and shout with the strong lungs within you. Sing with the birds, for it is a miracle that your eyes beheld another day. Your maker is not gifting you with wrapped presence full of empty air. The sweet surprises you encounter are not mirages to madden your mind. Embrace these daily joys. And I'm not completing it, but uh man, that one just stood out to me as like this this psalmic lament, you know, from you to God. And and and so it's I just man, just thank you for writing something so hopeful and so beautiful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, absolutely. And I think I remember when I wrote that poem because I was in this space of mind where anything good that would come into my life, I would just sabotage it and think, why would anything, why could anything good come out of this? I I'm just like almost preparing myself for like the shoe to drop. And um, and that's a big struggle of mine is to, like I said, uh like mar the vibrancy of what's there. I do that so often because I'm so afraid of pain and I'm so afraid of something that might go wrong. And just knowing that he's a good father and he gives good gifts and he doesn't trick us and play games with us. And if we do um go through the fire and the trial, it it's he's still good either way. And so there isn't any reason to be afraid or any reason to to jump to dive into that despair,
even though it was almost like, and I have another poem actually along those lines of like darkness was almost a comfort to me because I I thought that if I hid in the darkness, how much darker can it get than that?
SPEAKER_07You know, can you read that other poem to us?
SPEAKER_01Yes, I was.
SPEAKER_07Because we've had Oscar read it. Yes, and he blew it and I butchered it. He butchered it.
SPEAKER_02But before you read it, yes. And I and I and I love this, I love this idea. I was wondering if you would be willing to be vulnerable a little bit and tell us the backstory as to why you're reading what you're about ready to read.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um so I when I wrote this poem, and I wrote it about two or three weeks ago, actually, and I got to squeeze it into my the final manuscript before I went to print. Um but I was going through some just hard things, and I realized this pattern in my life of when something doesn't go my way, I run back to the darkness as if it's my friend. And as if that's the only place that I can go. And I realized that I had created a habit, and it was so hard to break because I knew it so well, and it wasn't even a conscious thing, it just would happen of oh well that didn't, you know, work how I thought it would. And so now I'm just gonna run back to my sadness. And it was just a huge wake-up call of why do I keep doing that? Why do I keep running to that as if that's gonna make anything better? One, and two, as if that's my only option. Um, so I was, you know, very convicted about that, about going to that instead of God's word, instead of to him, and knowing that. He has a perfect plan for my life, and what's happening is for my good. And it's something that I had to remind myself time and time again, and that's why I've written so much poetry, is because poetry kind of brings me on my knees. And I wrote it in the intro, but I like to think of it as my poems find they collapse into the arms of truth. And so sometimes when I'm writing, I don't even know what I'm writing because I'm just writing what's on my heart. And so I have been so inspired by the Psalms. And that's the poem that my dad just read, Hiding Place, was actually based on Psalm 32, 7. You are my hiding place. I think it's 7. I know it's in Psalm 32. Um, you are my hiding place, you preserve me from trouble, you surround me with songs of deliverance. Um, and so I wrote that poem in high school, but honestly, a lot of my poetry stems from that because when I go to the hiding place, when I go to God who is my hiding place, I can lament to him, but I know that my all my feelings and all my emotions, if I keep my eyes fixed on Christ, that they will collapse into the arms of truth, and I will find hope at the end of that.
SPEAKER_04Amen. Yeah, we'd love to hear it, honey.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so this one is called In the Shadows. I fear the darkness in my room, the tendrils of pain that lurk in the shadows, the lies that know my name. I fear what I may find in the stillness, what my mind may tell me when the joy of the day has faded. I fear the great vastness of all that is not known, the poisoned whispers that cling to my windows like cobwebs that cannot be destroyed. I fear my own reflection, the weakness that stares back at me through vacant eyes, the sadness that frames my face. I fear what my heart may say when I look over my shoulder to the past, when I see all I've done and haven't done. I fear the emptiness after a day of fullness, the quiet after the noise, the bleak nothingness of my life compared to others. I fear all that I've lost,
all that I once loved and will never love again. I fear what may come, what may destroy my confidence and send me to the shadows of my shame. But as I climb these creaky steps, I know that in the darkness you are there. I know that when the silence shrouds me, your voice encompasses it in all its glory and power. I know when I look to the future, you have already made a place for me, and your love guides my way like a beacon in the night. I know that when the lies peek through my windows, you are blowing them away with a mighty wind that cannot be withstood. I know that when my mind takes me captive, you are breaking my shackles that I may walk in your freedom. I know that no shadow can encompass you, no monster of doubt can stand in your presence, no fear can touch the light of who you are. As I walk into the shadows, as I step into this darkness, I know that you are already there.
SPEAKER_03Stop it.
SPEAKER_07I'm just ahead. I'm just about I'm just about joining easy too. Because you can you you write with such uh metaphoric clarity, you you see the image of what you're talking about. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And with that one, I realized that I hated stillness. And that's a big like being vulnerable again again, that is a big struggle for me, is the quiet after something really fun or really joyful because you're left with your own thoughts and you're left with the reality of whatever you're going through or just loneliness or whatever it might be. And um, I realized I didn't have to be afraid of that anymore because, yes, like I said before, I don't have to go into the darkness, but sometimes we have to step into darkness because that's what God has in our path, but we can step into it with confidence because he's he's in the shadows and he's waiting for us and he's already made a place for us there. Um and so it's something I have to keep coming back to God's word about because I'm I'm very social. I love to hang out with people, I love to just be constantly talking. I'm I'll like call people on the phone when I'm driving. Like I love to just be talking all the time, and I feel like the Lord wanted me to just pause and allow that stillness um to happen because it wasn't, it didn't have to be so terrifying.
SPEAKER_08Can you teach that to your dad? I'm working on it.
SPEAKER_01She's my tutor.
SPEAKER_07What's heartbreaking for me, and I I can hope I can explain this, but you're a godly woman, Julia, and you have all these hidden fears and the cellar of your own heart, and yet my heart breaks for the literally millions across the world that go through the complexities of fear that you go through without the hope of the gospel. Right. And so would this book be good to give to an unsaved person?
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely, yeah. And there are some of the poems they're, you know, it's not that I'm like walking them through the gospel step by step, but you see it through through the pain. And there I have a few in there that do explicitly um walk through the gospel as well.
SPEAKER_07I like the one called Are You a Good Person? How many of you are? Yeah, there's that one.
SPEAKER_04I'll put Are You a Good Person?
SPEAKER_01The epilogue in there.
SPEAKER_04Julia's uh Julia's always been tenacious about the gospel. I remember when she was a little girl, I think she might have been like five or something. We were at a park and uh she was playing with a little girl, and then all of a sudden I just hear, Do you know Jesus? The little girl goes, Yeah. Julia goes, Who is he? She wasn't gonna let her get away with just like who is he then?
SPEAKER_01I remember when I was playing with a little girl uh around that age, I asked her, Have you ever murdered anybody?
SPEAKER_04Did she put on the New Zealand accent?
SPEAKER_03Just left it at that.
SPEAKER_02Julia, does I mean, does poetry come easy to you?
SPEAKER_01Well, it's very random the way it comes to me. I think I can't really just like sit down and write a poem. It has to just be a random spurt of inspiration. And it's like journaling. It's like, I'll just start writing and I'm not really sure where it's gonna go.
SPEAKER_02So, how did how did you go from all the things that you're going through to express yourself
in poetry? Right, undoubtedly you were not creating poems to be put inside of a book, right? So the this poetry between you and yourself, you and the Lord, what where where is this idea coming from where you can express yourself? And when did you realize I I actually I think I actually have a gift here and I want to express this to the world.
SPEAKER_04Well, I was gonna say real quick as I never finished my earlier story of when she first read us that poem. That was the day I realized, because I said, you know, I'd give her tips and kind of help her with poetry, but that's the day I realized the student had exceeded her teacher. I remember thinking, I can't, I can't do that. I can't do that.
SPEAKER_07When she's a baby, she's just crying rhyme.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, something like that. So go ahead, just answer my question. Well, she's she was gonna answer my. Oh, yeah, sorry.
SPEAKER_01Um so I'm sorry, so you asked, when did I realize it was a gift? Yeah, when did you realize it?
SPEAKER_02And you kind of escaped to that gift, right? You're escaping to the darkness, which if if I'm understanding you correctly, that that darkness is anything other than the Lord. Right. It's self-pity, it's it's left to yourself, it's commotion. Yeah, right. And now you find yourself expressing yourself in written words, right? Yes, and then that turned out to be something beautiful. And did you look back and go, that is actually beautiful, and that's ministering to me. I want to minister to other people in the same way.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Is that the mindset?
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I think, well, the way it starts out is honestly, the only time I write, I've written my best poems has been when I'm in excruciating pain. And it's crazy how it works that way. But when I'm happy and having a great time, like I don't write very well. And so I feel like it starts there, and then it's a good outlet for me, kind of like journaling, like I mentioned before, just getting my thoughts out, getting my heart out on paper, and seeing like what am I actually experiencing right now? Because all I feel is a ball of emotion in my chest, and I'm really upset and I feel all these things, and I don't even know if some of these things are biblical because I'm just so emotional over it. Um, and then like I was saying before, as I'm writing, it's like it finds its way to truth at the end because I can't leave it on a bleak note. I just never have been able to do that. And there's been a couple where you're it's a little, you know, that's why my my book is actually split into three parts: the mess, the mirror, and the mending. And so the mess is just the mess and just the the very, you know, brutal side of our emotions and raw feelings. So there are a couple poems in there that end a little bit like, well, that's that's a very sad poem. But as you're reading the book, you get to the middle, which is the mirror, which you're which is where I feel like those poems are when I really saw who I was in Christ and um what my what part my life has to play in the story that God has. And then the third is the mending, is when I really feel that the Lord healing me in those different areas. So all of that to say, I think I just feel blessed that the Lord has given this to me because it does minister to my heart because I can, and it's so funny. I did print a poem and put it on my wall, and it's not in the prideful way at all. It's because I have to be reminded of what I went, what I went through in whatever time that was, and the truth that God, you know, put on my heart. And so it reminds me, it ministers to me because it's ultimately from God's word, is where it's inspired. You know, a lot of these themes come from that, come from the Psalms have inspired me a lot. Um, and
then yes, I want to impact everyone. And I was scared to publish this because it's very vulnerable. And some of the poems I cringe a little bit because I don't want people, I want people to not be like, is she okay? Like I am okay for the record. Um but I hope that it can speak to people who are in those moments because sometimes those emotions don't feel rational. Um, but it's important for us to process them with the Lord. Um, and I want people to know that that they're not alone in that and it's okay. And the Lord wants that honesty. So I don't know if that answers.
SPEAKER_07Did Job have a finger in the book? The book of Job.
SPEAKER_01Possibly. I don't maybe subconsciously, I think definitely um just him, you know, lamenting in those different portions of Job and um God's goodness in all of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07If this book is written through suffering, do you want to write another book?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04I don't know. You know, though, Julia, you have written things that that didn't necessarily come from suffering. One of my favorite short stories you ever wrote is a cherry red balloon. Oh, that's true. Oh man, I can choke down things. Is it short? Is it a long one? No, it's it's a short story, but it'd be too long to read here. But it it is. It's it it haunts me. It's one of the most powerful stories. I'd like to turn into a short film. No. What is it about to not? It's just about a balloon. Oh, that's true. Thank you. I just can't.
SPEAKER_07I just can't think.
SPEAKER_01It does sound scary though when you say like a clown called it. Yeah, is there a clown in there?
SPEAKER_02Is it? Yes. Oh, yeah. It's a movie.
SPEAKER_07Famous. Oh, yeah. Well, this is the same. Yeah, it's the balloon that goes. Yeah, kids follow it, and stuff like that. And then it just pops up. He plagiarized. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Some kid is a. Julia, I'd love for you to read if if that was one of the ones you you have or you're planning to the one with the the colors. You know the one I'm talking about.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's the one I marked. Okay. Blink spaces. Can you please read that?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02But before you read it, listen. We want backstory. We want to know what motivated you. Yeah, pull us out of that ash pit and tell us where this came from.
SPEAKER_01Well, this one I think is actually probably very relatable to a lot of people. And it's just about the monotony of life. Um, and not necessarily going through a specific trial, but just being just feeling what's next. Like, why am I here? Why, why do I feel so gloomy for no reason? Um, and just kind of that melancholy feeling that we get in our souls. And um, I was trying to make sense of it because I didn't know why I was feeling those things. And then I thought, what can I do with this time um that I'm feeling this way? And I called it blank spaces because sometimes life just feels like a blank space. Like there it doesn't, there's no indication of what's coming next. Um so blank spaces. What do I do with gray? Why is there pain in the blank spaces? I see nothing, but I feel everything. The clock is ticking, ticking, ticking, but I stand between time and space as the world spirals around me in dizzying circles of warped images and distorted faces. I'm hurtling forward at a hundred miles per hour, and yet nothing has changed. I hear the drip, drip, dripping of my own thoughts. They fill my brain until it is almost bursting at the seams. I try to gather them up, but they sift through my fingers like sand. They escape me, they flee as I chase their chaotic bickering. I am full, I am vibrant, I am strong, I am empty, I am muted, I am weak, I am brittle bones, I am nothing. I crumble beneath the weight of my own desires, I am so weary with what I want to be, how I want others to see me. I cling to all that I have with the crazed hunger of a rabid beast. I fight off anything that dare draw near to take what I have always known, what I don't want to change. And yet, I see the dancing of vibrant colors on the horizon, tempting me to release what I hold with such ferocious intensity, to leave it all behind and start afresh. I tiptoe around the pain that lays in shards upon the shadowy ground. I listen to the hollow footsteps that are my own as I peer around each corner, only to see white walls and empty corridors. I glance behind me, bloody footprints, they follow me wherever I go. Why is there pain in the blank spaces? Where did the color go? Why are my tears visiting me in the silence? There, I see something, color, buckets of color, brushes, paintbrushes. The white walls surround me on every side, they swallow me with their bleak emptiness, they scream at me in the silence. With a trembling hand I grasp a paintbrush and begin to paint. It is here that I learn many things. Here in the halls of time, in the waiting, in the shards of my hurt, I learn to paint away the gray, the white, the sadness. Here in the silence, I learn to speak, to pray when the quiet air pushes me, suffocates me, bullies me. Here in the blank spaces, in the halls of my darkened memories, I learn to dance with my pain, to grab its by it by its black claws and lead it in a waltz through the echoey hallways. I will remember these dark and silent days, these days of blankness and monotony, for without the darkness I would not know light, without the gray, I would not know color, without the silence I would not know music, without the pain, I would not know joy. I will paint my passions upon the blank walls of my loneliness, I will twirl with the hurt that tries to keep me captive, I will sing into the silence until my heart dances with the melody. The clock is ticking, ticking, ticking, and it cannot be stopped. But as I stand here in the blank spaces, there is a shadow I rest in, not the shadow of an intruder, but the shadow of one who has brought me here. I will dwell in his comfort as I sing and dance and paint joy into every blank space.
SPEAKER_07Here we go. God promised never to drown us again, but I said that is terrible.
SPEAKER_04Oh, honey, what a gift. I mean, yeah, that is just like, you know, we we're moved by things like this when we can relate to them. And I think that is the power of this book. You know, it's that people will be able to insert themselves in there. You know, one of the young ladies here at the ministry who helped to proof the book basically said to me, Um, how does she know me? I've never met her, you know, and and I I feel the same way with so many of these poems in here, you know. And but yet there's some there's there's so much consolation and comfort and just even if an answer isn't given per se, knowing someone else understands. Like I'm not alone in this. Yeah, you know. So, you know, and and Mark, I I'd I'd love you to to touch on this, you know, Psalm 34, 18, the Lord is near to those who are brokenhearted. And save such as have a contrite spirit. I mean, the Lord is near.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, we think we we we think of God as as distant because we we see space, we we see the universe and the planets, and and we don't know what's out there. And I think that there's that there's a a correlation to that that that God is so big and maybe so busy uh orchestrating the the orbit that he can't orchestrate my thoughts because I don't even know my thoughts. Yeah, you know. Um, you know, I I I've often said that he knows our thoughts from afar, but he also knows our far-off thoughts. When when we don't know what we're going through, when I can't put into words, when I I don't express myself through poetry, that my my tears themselves become poetry, and and God catches that and that as a child of God that I am his poema, the expression of his heart, the symphony of his praise, the trophy of his grace on display that one day will judge angels. And none of it makes sense to me because I think I'm just making a decision. I'm just reaching out, I'm just leaving my family in worship and a family devotion. I'm loving on my wife and I'm kissing my daughter on her head as I'm leaving, and I'm just living life. But it's those weird, mundane things that I think that nothing is happening when in reality everything is happening. That all that the Lord is doing behind the scenes is re is the reality of how God works. He was a man of sorrows. There's a whole book called Lamentations, where he understands our rising up, he understands our sitting down. Not that he just sees it, but he dissects it, that he is not just the author and the creator of man, but he is the artist. He has painted us every freckle, every mole, every hair is numbered, that we are the masterpiece of God on display forever. This is what it means. And this is why I'm so intrigued that I love poetry, but nobody's ever read my poetry. I write poetry, but I send it off to him on a helium balloon. And that everybody that I would even talk to would think that that is the craziest thing in the world. But it's me dancing before the Lord in my ephod. It's me going before the Lord and just saying, Lord, this is my heart, this is my chest, this is my bean, this is what I have. And I don't want anybody else to know this. I write songs, but I don't let anybody hear those songs. That it is for the Lord. This is what I do. And I can't imagine what you have, you know, before the Lord if you're giving us this to be on display. But our hearts are on display before the Lord at all times. And if we were to recognize and realize that he's a very present help in time of need, that in his presence is fullness of joy, that all of his waves they billow over me. You know, it's said that that I understand that. I I understand that idea of that the waves and and the weariness and where I want to give up and I want to I want to shout and I've screamed until I've I've had no more tears left inside my eyes. Welcome to life. This is life. This is just this is just walking with God. Walking with God and and he's there and he's not gonna put out that smoldering wick. He's he's not ever going to look the other way, he's never gonna be blinking because he'll be taking his eyes off of me. I I've had deep despair where I've Googled how to commit suicide and make it look like an accident while I've had kids. I get it, I understand, I understand the idea of being despairing of life. I mean, just the other day I I read uh this thing by Johnny Erickson Tata, and I was just so moved, where she had a close friend's uh child had committed suicide recently. And I look at that and I go, I get it. I get it as a 53-year-old man with nothing on my bucket list. Saying, Lord, you have anything left? Anything you want to do? Because I have nothing here. I got I have nothing else to give. And and but I want to cross that finish line and I want to hear those words, well done, good and faithful servant, and I want I want him to mean it when he says it. Not because I'm gonna muster up anything in and of myself, but because of what Christ did.
SPEAKER_04So that's so good, Mark.
SPEAKER_02We're here for you, Matt. Yeah, we love you.
SPEAKER_07I wrote a poem.
SPEAKER_04Oh no.
SPEAKER_07I've just got the title.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Tears are flowing, going down the hairy face of a wide-eyed Arab.
SPEAKER_04That's pretty good. That's what you're doing over there. Saying it to print. Wow. So, Mark, that was your poem that fell from the sky in my yard. Keep your day job, bro.
SPEAKER_08Uh, you know, it reminds me of Makato Fujimura wrote a book called Art and Faith, and in it he talks about Jesus crying over the death of Lazarus. And he talks about the absurdity of it because often we think to ourselves, well, God is the sovereign God who knows all things, not surprised by anything at all. And he says the significance of Jesus allowing us to see that moment. And he wasn't doing it on display for us to go, oh look, Jesus Christ. Like he was actually weeping. Uh, you mentioned you know, he's he's a man of sorrows. And um Makato points out that the tears that dropped from his eyes are still with us. The molecules that made up the tears of those eyes are still with us today, roaming around this world somewhere. Isn't that amazing to think about crazy thought? Isn't that? And so I mean we we do, we we we pray, we lament, we cry out to a God who has cried. Isn't that beautiful? That's amazing.
SPEAKER_02We cry out to a God who cried.
SPEAKER_04Right. Uh 2 Corinthians 12, 9 to 10. And he said to me, My grace is sufficient for you, for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Therefore, most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. Therefore, I take pleasure in infirmities and reproaches and needs and persecutions and distresses for Christ's sake, for when I am weak and I am strong.
SPEAKER_07That so ministered to me when I was going through that time of brokenness, which lasted for five years. It was uh agoraphobia. I'm so pleased I was able to find out what it was to diagnose the disease. Because I didn't know what was happening to me. I thought I'm losing my mind. I cannot look into the eyes of my four-year-old daughter. I was so devastated and broken. I found it was agoraphobia, which is a fear of the marketplace. I used to preach in the marketplace every day. And you know, I was it was called a fear of the marketplace, and it's uh panic attacks. And they were so real, in the sense that I would lie in bed in the morning and break out into a sweat before I got out of bed with irrational fear. The only way I can describe it is if you could uh seriously imagine yourself being attacked by a ferocious lion, what your emotions would be, just utter terror. Agoraphobia is when there's no lion. But that flight or fight feeling grabs you to a point where your heart's beating through your chest, you're breaking into a sweat, you can't breathe. And so once I understood it, and uh and I heard things like just control your breathing, breathe through your nose, deep, deep, and let it out. And what's happening is you're feeding your body oxygen, which is getting rid of that feeling of panic. So there were certain things that I learned to do because of it, and at the same time, scripture was such a tonic to me. That verse that you read, My grace is sufficient. God's bringing me to a point of absolute weakness. Yeah. Because when I'm weak, then I'm strong. When my knees tremble, then I fall to them. And the other thing that saved my life was the word afterwards in Hebrews 12. Despise not the chastening of the Lord, neither faint when you're rebuked of him, for whom the Lord loves, he chastens. And then it says, afterwards it shall bring forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness. And I thought, what are the peaceable fruits of righteousness? I didn't know what they were. I thought that phrase is beautiful, but I want to find out what they are so I can bring forth what I'm supposed to and get out of this black pit that I'm in. And that word afterwards saved my life because I wrote it out and slammed it on my wall, and I thought, there's light at the end of the tunnel. There is an afterwards, and it was such an incredible hope that I got from scripture. And I look back now and say, It was good for me what I went through, as the psalmist said, it was good for me that I was afflicted, that I might learn your statutes. And so now when anyone praises me, I'm so holy, it just falls through the other side.
SPEAKER_04Wow, Ray, that's that's so powerful. I remember when I went through my Dark Night of the Soul, it was for me, it was a seven-month uh season. But I remember at the end of it thinking, I and you know, my mom passed away when I was 18, and you can imagine that was the absolute most devastating experience of my life. Before I got saved, I said, always say if my mom ever dies, I'd commit suicide. That's how much you know I loved her. But that was nothing in comparison to what I went through in that seven-month period. But I remember after I came out of it, I I thought to myself, I would not wish that on my worst enemies, but I would wish it on everybody in terms of what happened in me and what God did in me, you know.
SPEAKER_07So when you call out, God use me, be ready.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and you think of what Jesus said in Isaiah 61, the spirit of the Lord is upon me because the Lord has anointed me to preach good tidings to the poor. He has sent me to heal the brokenhearted. And that's Jesus, you know. He recited this about himself, you know. And Psalm 147, 3, he heals the brokenhearted and binds up their wounds.
SPEAKER_06I know I love that.
SPEAKER_08My uh my dark night of the souls lasted about 330-something episodes.
SPEAKER_04Um just beginning.
SPEAKER_08Julia, I imagine there's um probably a young lady out there that's listening to this and is relating maybe they're even in a season of despair. What would you want them to know?
SPEAKER_01Well, I was this was kind of going through my mind right now when Grandpa was talking about um his experience and then my dad. And um I think, you know, we go through specific trials, but we also go through the tr the trial of battling our own minds and hearts. And I think um that can be such a trap of allowing, we can allow our emotions, we can allow ourselves to lament and process our emotions, but then we can't stay there. And I think um that would be you know my encouragement is just you can lament the Lord, but the Lord wants to bring you out of that, and he wants to bring you into the joy of his presence. And I think it's Psalm 16, but it's um in your presence, and I think, oh, is that me?
SPEAKER_06Oh no, good Lord Oscar.
SPEAKER_08I don't know why my laptop did that. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_01Um in your presence is fullness of joy, at your right hand are pleasures forevermore. Um, and just clinging to that truth of nothing else can satisfy, and it's taken me 28 years to come to that, you know, conclusion. Even this year, I feel like the Lord is continually pruning me and showing me there's nothing else that can satisf, satisfy you, and give you joy besides me. And so just running to him, running to his word, and knowing that even when you feel this pain and this anxiety and despair and depression, it it doesn't last forever. And that's the subtitle of my book is what if pain was not forever? Um, and it and I'm not saying that in a way of just wait it out, it'll it'll be gone. I don't know. I don't know how long your season is for. I don't know you this pain could last for a lifetime, depending on what the situation is. But I know that the Lord is with me in this pain, in this trial. And yes, I'm broken, but God brings so much beauty out of that because He, we're His vessels and He uses us. And I think one of the biggest things for me too is how can I serve others instead of wallowing in this? How can I see other the pain of others and how can I minister to them? And I think once we come out of that pit and say, okay, Lord, how can you use me? I guarantee you you're gonna feel so much joy from carrying out the Lord's work and what he has called us to do. Um, and not underestimating also how powerful God's word is in mending our souls.
SPEAKER_04Amen. You and I, honey, were talking not long ago about how shallow. We would be if we never went through brokenness, if we never experienced hardship. Like we would we would be extremely, extremely weak and also shallow people. How do we relate to others? You know, how do we show compassion and empathy? And it it's not possible. And so there is beauty in that brokenness. And it's found in remembering those bloody footprints that follow us wherever we go.
SPEAKER_07And we think of that verse we're able to give comfort to others by the comfort wherewith we are comforted by God.
SPEAKER_04Amen. That's right. Yeah. And when you think of Paul the Apostle, where he talked about even despairing of life, this is an apostle. Like he encountered the Christ. He went to the third heaven. What are you talking about? But but yeah, you know, but again, like Paul said, that as Christ did, right, for the joy set before him, he endured the cross. Yeah. And we know that joy that awaits us in eternity. And and all that God can and will do through us to touch others' lives. Like, even like you said, like sometimes our sadness, I believe always with gracious respite in some way as God meets with us. It may last a lifetime.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_04But in eternity, when we look back and we see the the things that God did in us and through us to touch others, would we say at that point, no, I wish I didn't go through any of that sadness? No. We'd realize it was worth it because he's worth it. Right. And so Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And that was really quick. That was another poem that I wrote called The Threshold of Heaven. And just that picture of standing at the threshold of heaven. We're not in heaven. We still have the blackness of sin behind us, but we're looking forward to this beautiful hope in Christ and eternity with him forever. And so, yes, that statement can be true. What if pain was not forever? It's not forever, because we're gonna dwell with him forever in joy and eternity.
SPEAKER_04Amen, honey. Well, thank you so much for coming in. Thank you for writing the book. And um, thank you for choosing me to be your father. I'm so grateful, Julia. But as you can tell, friends, uh, I'm an extremely proud father who uh loves my daughter with every fiber of my being. Um I'm just so honored that the Lord has given me the privilege to be your dad. And um, and uh I'm so honored as a father to learn from my daughter because you know that I respect you and admire you and and um so grateful to the Lord for you. So, friends, get the book. All things broken and beautiful. What if pain was not forever? And if you read it, you'll get giant eyeballs like me and Julia.
SPEAKER_03Well, there you have it, friends!
SPEAKER_04Don't forget to get the book. Don't forget Podcast LivingWaters.com. And if you were touched by the poems you heard today, I'm telling you, there's so much more in here. I wish we had time for you to read all of them, really. But uh, but make sure to get it, friends. And remember podcastlivingwaters.com with your thoughts and your suggestions and your dislike of Oscar's clothing.
SPEAKER_03Thank you so much for joining us, friends.
SPEAKER_04We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast, where Julia Zwain has every idea what she's doing. What, Ray? Podcast. Oh, you're a little late.
SPEAKER_07No, it was so harmonizing with you, you didn't hear me. Well, that's what you're doing.
SPEAKER_04More proof that we have no idea what we're doing.