The Living Waters Podcast
Enjoy the ride with this hilarious new Podcast as hosts (Ray Comfort, Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne, Mark Spence, and Oscar Navarro) and special guests explore the pressing questions of our day with sound theology and apologetics! We would love to hear from you. How has the podcast encouraged you? Are there any subjects you’d like the guys to cover or questions you’d like them to answer? Email us at Podcast@LivingWaters.com and you may hear your feedback and questions quoted on the next episode!
The Living Waters Podcast
Ep. 374 - When Your Smartphone Becomes Your Spiritual Enemy
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Screens dominate modern life, quietly shaping habits, desires, and spiritual health in ways many people fail to recognize. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar examine how smartphones and social media have become powerful tools that amplify the heart’s desires, often drifting from usefulness into addiction. While technology itself is morally neutral, the guys explain that human sinfulness and spiritual opposition twist good gifts into sources of distraction, dependency, and misplaced worship. Phones promise connection and reassurance, yet they often function as a substitute for stillness, prayer, and dependence on the Lord.
The conversation turns to how social media platforms are intentionally designed to be addictive. Drawing parallels to slot machines, the guys discuss dopamine-driven engagement and the reality that free apps profit by turning users into products. This constant stimulation rewires attention and interferes with spiritual disciplines like reading Scripture and being present with God. They challenge believers to consider how often they check their phones compared to how often they examine their souls, warning that unchecked use reshapes how sin is perceived, normalized, and even celebrated.
The guys then move into the personal and relational costs of excessive phone use. Social media provides comfort through distance, yet it fuels jealousy, gossip, and slander while deepening loneliness. Digital life replaces fundamental interactions with curated images, depriving people of everyday relational friction that builds maturity and resilience. They note growing social anxiety, loss of creativity, and diminished attention spans as consequences of constant engagement. Yet the discussion also highlights practical steps toward freedom, such as reading physical Bibles, setting boundaries, turning off notifications, limiting app access, and intentionally reclaiming attention from devices designed to control it.
Finally, the guys address parenting and responsibility in a digital age. They urge courage, honesty, and accountability when it comes to children and screens, emphasizing that guidance and restriction are acts of love, not burdens. Parents are encouraged to replace screen time with creativity, outdoor play, genuine relationships, and hands-on experiences. The episode closes with a call to fight rather than surrender, to confess unhealthy habits, and to invite family accountability. True freedom comes not from rejecting technology entirely, but from examining the heart, setting wise boundaries, and choosing to let Christ shape attention, affection, and daily life.
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Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.
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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Awe, Routine, And Looking Up
SPEAKER_05You know, we live in these boxes in our brains that we don't go outside of them. And like when you give yourself the opportunity to gaze even upon God's creation, it it creates space for awe and worship. And we just get in our ruts and our routines, just our head always down. Looking, I mean, you know, it's proverbial now, but you go out in public and everyone, you see your family sitting at dinner at a restaurant, everyone's looking down, you know. And again, we're not saying it's it's wrong to use your phones, they're gifts, they're a blessing. But are we so regimented in that habit that we don't break away and discover things that we lost. We call it trials and tribulations. Boy, did I experience it in a very heavy dose at the National Bible Bee Competition when one of the children was named Augustine, but I had to pronounce it Augustine correctly?
SPEAKER_00Does that feel weird to do something correctly?
Banter, Trivia, And Lighthearted Warm-Up
SPEAKER_05I have no idea. I had no choice. So why did you have no choice? Oh, because they mispronounced their child's name as Augustine. They didn't check with you.
SPEAKER_01But child's name? Oh, that's funny.
SPEAKER_05And every time Oscar's face pops in my mind.
SPEAKER_01So why don't you just do it?
SPEAKER_05Just humble me, gentlemen. Just do it the right way for the first time. Yeah, I become all things to all men, as faulty as they are.
SPEAKER_01Couldn't you have gone around it with by just calling him Aug? Okay. I should have done that.
SPEAKER_05Augie. Yeah. Alright, time for some trivia. Okay, guys, guess what the longest. No, no, no, no. The shortest war in history is.
SPEAKER_00The uh is that the 12-day war? What is it called?
SPEAKER_0538 minutes in 1996. In 1996, the Anglo-Zanzibar War began at 9.02 a.m. and ended at 9 40 when the Sultan of Zanzibar surrendered. Wow, the coolest thing I've ever heard in my life. Any casualties? 38 minutes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, anyone die in it?
SPEAKER_05What's that uh that'd be really unfortunate. Wait, it was one of the kings because another king was saying what he was gonna do. He said, let not him who let not him who puts on the armor boast like him who takes it off. Ah, I love that. That's a good one, yeah. That is a good one. But I can imagine that Zanzibar dude, we're gonna kill you 38 minutes later, ah, we surrender.
SPEAKER_01Same flag. How do you define a war? It has to be between two countries. We are right. We are right, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Okay, longest war in history. 781 years.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's still going.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Which one's that? 1711 to 1492. Arabs and Jews. Muslim. Oh my god, conquest vibration. It's gotta be Muslims at Star Wars. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Oh no, no, nice. Yeah, all the Muslims listening to this podcast.
SPEAKER_06We love you Muslims.
SPEAKER_05We love you, Muslims. A day on Venus is longer than a year on Venus. Figure that out.
SPEAKER_00True. This is trivia.
SPEAKER_05It is true. Yeah, 240. Venus rotates so slowly that one full rotation takes 243 Earth days, but one orbit around the sun takes 225. So it's what days longer than a year. No, Venus is flat.
SPEAKER_07That reminds me, I went to the doctor the other day and he wanted me to talk about my weight. And I was like, yeah, it was about 45 minutes, and your chairs are uncomfortable.
SPEAKER_05I'll guess how many hearts octopuses? I would say octopi, but I said octopus octopuses have. Six. Three? It's awesome. I didn't. That was Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. No. I was thinking of it. What colors are blood? What color is their blood? Purple. Purple. Blue. Nice try. Like I said. Uh the mantis shrimp can see more colors than any creature on earth. True. Humans have three. Color of chapters, butterflies five. Mantis shrimp six.
SPEAKER_01Excuse me. How do they know that?
SPEAKER_05They uh ask them as a thousand.
SPEAKER_01Hold your finger on it.
SPEAKER_05Okay. How do butterflies taste?
SPEAKER_01Nice.
SPEAKER_00Like chicken?
SPEAKER_05Barbecued butterfly. Butterflies taste with their feet. Isn't that crazy?
SPEAKER_01How do they know that?
SPEAKER_05They know, they see them. Okay, all right. How many, okay, this is a good one. The human nose, how many scents, different scents, can the human nose distinguish?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. This doesn't make any sense. 26.
SPEAKER_05One trillion. Who said that? That's what they said, but I don't know. So this was proven in a 2014 Rockefeller University study showing the olfactory systems and orbit capacity far beyond the old assumption of 10,000 smells. So how could there even be 10,000 snows?
SPEAKER_00Wait, what is the creature we're talking about?
SPEAKER_05Human being. Yes.
SPEAKER_01The human being smells.
SPEAKER_05Whatever. Ray, how much does a weight a cloud weigh? Oh, you should know this. For a million tons. One million pounds. I'm sorry.
SPEAKER_00You gotta change your hand.
SPEAKER_05A blue whale's heart is so large a human could swim through its arteries. True or false, Mark. I'm gonna say true again. Yeah, yeah, true, true, true. Is it really true? If in Del Chow. A whale's heart weighs 1,300 pounds and its aorta is about nine inches in diameter, large enough to fit a human head and shoulders. It's pretty tight. I'm thinking you're like cruising through.
SPEAKER_01No man could ever get inside of a few.
SPEAKER_07The title of this podcast is Facts That Put You to Sleep.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, facts that make you snore. We need more because these are the kinds of facts that we adore. You don't like a mosca. Hey, that's okay. I love them, and I'm gonna tell them every day. Oh okay. Last night something really cool happened. So Rachel and I uh we went for a walk. I think it may be the first time we did a night walk. You guys ever done night walks? Yeah, yeah, it's uh night walk daily.
SPEAKER_04They're really cool.
SPEAKER_05It was cool. I mean, well, both yeah, literally and uh figuratively. I mean, we cruised through the neighborhood, it was quiet, it was neat. So we're walking, and then we see these neighbors of ours that I had met a long time ago and was walking the dog, but I haven't seen them in years because they've been avoiding it. Yeah, well, we had we just don't walk because you don't go out. No, because we walked on the trail. We walked on the trail, but we walked through the neighborhood. So we run into them, and uh it was Carly and Jason are their names. They had their dog Griff with them and and uh cruising around with their with their baby. And so we, hey, how you guys doing? You know, and and we don't know them too well, you know. We just saw each other a few times around the neighborhood. Anyway, we we finished small talking, and then Carly goes, funny story. She goes, We were at our church, and you know, they had done some stuff with the youth group, and her husband asked the the young young folk, hey, what do you guys like to listen to podcasts and stuff? They go, Oh, we listen to this thing called Living Waters Podcast, we really like it. And so they said they started listening, and they're like, Hey, that that voice sounds familiar. They realize it's me. And so they're like, We listen now, you know. So I was really excited. So, shout out to you guys and uh shout out to the little qualification about walking out at night.
SPEAKER_01If you live in Chicago, don't do this at home.
SPEAKER_05Don't do it, don't do this at home. We do it, we need to do a disclaimer on that. But anyway, Jason Carly, shout out and shout out to the uh to the youngins there at the church, um, at the Presbyterian church you guys are at. All right. Time for a cool classy comment. This is from Jonah Williams, subject my inspiration. Hello, brothers. I'm a longtime listener from Alabama, though I've been a Christian for most of my life. During a lot of that time, I did little or nothing to help spread the gospel that I believe. While I considered myself an introvert, I've never seen that as an excuse to not do my part and honestly felt like Moses trying to get out of his mission by claiming to be slow and hesitant in speech. Oh, Mark, you did a message on that, didn't you?
SPEAKER_00I wasn't even listening to that. I don't care.
SPEAKER_05I was very encouraged when I started hearing you guys talk about using gospel tracts. And once you did an entire episode on the subject, I was sold. I get mine through a different source. What? What? But consider you the main inspiration that convicted me to start using them. Being in the Bible Bell, I realize there's a good possibility that any person I give one to is already Christian, but I don't let that stop me either. My goal is this uh to give lost people the gospel and perhaps to give saved people an idea. That's cool.
SPEAKER_06Keep it up, brother. All right, shout out, huh?
SPEAKER_01Those Mormon tracks are really good. That's where he gets up.
SPEAKER_05Shout out the Living Waters Podcast is the number one podcast in Saudi Arabia. Very good. Saudi Arabia. Praise God. Thank you for listening out there. That's great. And um be careful.
SPEAKER_06And now a radically revolutionary resources podcast is breaking me. The Ten Commandments coins.
SPEAKER_04Treasure chests. We got treasure, treasure, treasure chests.
SPEAKER_05I dig those treasure chests. Okay, I got shocked. I think uh it was oh, I think when you guys were at our home the other night. Oh, Mark.
SPEAKER_00He's carrying the coins.
SPEAKER_05Look at what broadcast. Mark's putting the coin up to the microphone.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Oh, sure. Here, you try. No, thanks.
SPEAKER_05Nothing. Um, no, but I was talking to Daniel and I was shocked. I mean, we have so much going on around here. One of our treasure chests has four thousand coins. No, that's what Daniel said. Really? Yeah. Well, I think it's too much.
SPEAKER_04There's one with a thousand, I know that. Yeah, he said four thousand. Yeah, Ray, you keep getting these bigger and bigger. Yeah, forgotten.
SPEAKER_07We should see how many coins we can fit into your car.
SPEAKER_04I thought you were gonna say into my mouth.
SPEAKER_07In your car, you'll do it. That would be so fun. That would be fun. Wouldn't it? We couldn't.
SPEAKER_01I say we could fit a hundred thousand in.
SPEAKER_07Oh, I think more.
SPEAKER_05You think? There's only one way to find out. You know, yeah. Yeah, anyway, chug them out, friends. Great way to share the gospel. I mean, seriously.
SPEAKER_01Excuse me, I think I'm thinking about getting them in, but getting them out would be a real pain.
SPEAKER_05Do you have a sunroof? You'll do it. We got a sunroof? No. We can make one.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, can opener.
SPEAKER_05Easy, quick. He'll do it. He's gonna cut a hole in his bed. He'll call this. That's crazy.
SPEAKER_01We have that many coins to do that. Oh, dude. We should try it. Move on. Ray on YouTube. I could go on the view.
SPEAKER_07You know what we can do is we can tell people whoever guesses the closest number wins a lifetime supply of coins. They win a$600 car.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. For over 90. Um, they could win the new leather evidence. Yes. No, people think we're joking right now. He'll do it. No, I think this is very exciting. All right. What are you doing around 1 o'clock? 1 o'clock. No, we've got the new parking lot. There could be the opening of the new parking lot, the cargoes in the middle. Everyone pausing pausing those coins. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That would be so funny.
SPEAKER_01Hang on. Oh, we can know how many are going in before we put them in.
SPEAKER_05Can you pull out the memory erasing machine? Please. Did you create a report? Please. No.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. He's not going to think of anything else during this podcast.
SPEAKER_05All right, friends, 10 commandments. Why wait? You're dying, right? How often do we hear that refrain? Anyways, friends, 10 Commandments coins not to put in your car, but to give away. Oh, we've got to be a little bit more than a we've lost them.
SPEAKER_06Check out the treasure chest too. Don't forget the Living Waters mug, the Evidence Study Bible, Living Waters TV, all at LivingWater.com.
SPEAKER_05And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel where you can see us as well as hear us. Ray, please don't. Oh boy.
SPEAKER_01You know, never to say please don't to me. Please don't do it, Ray.
SPEAKER_00I don't think there is a chance that he would do that. I think it would be so good. Yeah, but he wouldn't do it. He's he doesn't have the courage to do it. He's a website.
SPEAKER_06They're a web, Ray. All right, friends.
SPEAKER_01Sorry, Tony.
SPEAKER_00COVID.
SPEAKER_01We need a big shovel to shovel them in to make it interesting. Yeah. That'd be fun.
SPEAKER_00Little aluminum slivers will be all over his car. I love this.
Listener Shoutouts And Resource Chat
SPEAKER_05Oh, and those things they're gonna come out just going. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Bring a shovel, shovel them in, and the one who guesses how much is there will win. Ooh. What do they win? Um race car. Yes. A race car? Race car. Yeah, that's right. Race car, the race car. That would be that would be good. All right, friends. Today we're talking about when your smartphone becomes your spiritual enemy. The day you buy it. Yeah. Next episode. Yeah. So we're gonna we're gonna talk about that good stuff. Um, but uh here's here's what's interesting, guys. I did some research. Average global internet connected screen time, six hours and thirty-eight minutes a day. We're doing we're doing a little worse in the US, six hours and forty minutes as opposed to the national average. That's lukewarm. Yeah, you guys are a bunch of whiams.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so what's this addiction, distraction, the slow death of spiritual focus?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that's kind of some of the points of what we're looking at. Good. Bring it up. Bring it up. Yeah, so look.
SPEAKER_01You can't see me concentrate.
SPEAKER_05My dream, my dream is to keep Ray. Uh are you still thinking about it? Look at him, his hands moving. Like, I did it right. Oh no. All right. Um yeah, so anyway, my dream is to divorce Ray from his cell phone. That'd be so fun.
SPEAKER_01No, that's ridiculous. Yeah. I love my cell phone. Here, I'll take away. My cell phone has enhanced my marriage, it's enhanced my Christian walk, it's enhanced my friendships. No, it's true. Yeah. I mean, Stu and I are so close because of the cell phone. We text each other. My s my sister in New Zealand said, How are you? Instantly, 7,000 miles back, I'm doing fine. So you have to do my brother in Australia. So it's I think the cell phone's wonderful. Yeah. It's it's really you can use a cell phone for hammering and nails. You can use it for you could use it to hit people over the head. It's you would. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05You would.
SPEAKER_01But but it can be used for good also.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, absolutely. Uh that that's one of the biggest, I think, blessings of our technological age is a good idea. Let's disclose what it calls. Um electronic uh electronic pocket knife.
SPEAKER_07Like a Swiss Army knife. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like any tool or resource, it can be used for good or it can be used for evil. Um any any tool or resource out there for the most part isn't inherently evil. What makes it evil is the way we put it to use. I just heard uh I was reading a book recently and I heard this analogy, and I thought it was so good. He said, or is it a metaphor? Anyway, he said.
SPEAKER_01If it contains like a metaphor, like totally.
SPEAKER_07I'm gonna try to say it without the word.
SPEAKER_01Did you read this off your phone?
Main Topic: Phones As Spiritual Enemies
SPEAKER_07No, I did not. Uh not. Um but he was talking about how we uh let me see, I'm gonna try to get this quote right. He says, Oh, okay, he says, um man isn't inherently good and then and then things cause mishap. Rather, man is inherently flawed, and the devil will accentuate that. And so he said, you know, it's it's like this if you open up the top of a piano and you can sing, you can sing a note, and if you hit the note, the the string of that note will vibrate, attuning itself to you because it's hearing that note, right?
SPEAKER_05Isn't that called like sympathetic resonance or something? Yeah, that's exactly what I was gonna say. Yeah, that's right. Probably something like that. I've heard of that, yeah.
SPEAKER_07So the point is this is that the that is exactly the way spiritual warfare works. The devil sings the notes of lies that attunes your heart to him. He knows how to go in there and find the deep crevices and pull on those strings.
SPEAKER_01He knows how to go and then find the deep crevices. Easy as well.
SPEAKER_03Now he knows that I mean.
SPEAKER_07But he he most certainly uses a gift, a good gift like a cell phone in bad ways. But the thing that's most important, something I want to get into, is that your your phone ultimately, what it does, it's an amplification to the deepest areas of your heart. Because when no one else is looking, or even when everybody's looking and you're in a crowded room and you're still bored and lonely, and you grab your phone and you start scrolling, your phone is revealing something about your heart.
SPEAKER_05Oscar, you still have a love-hate relationship with uh your phone?
SPEAKER_07It's mostly hate-hate.
SPEAKER_05It's mostly hate-hate. Ray, love, love. Oscar hate, hate. Ray, would you say your cell phone is what is one of your most valuable earthly possessions?
SPEAKER_01Your cell phone is one of your most valuable earthly possessions. Did you say that? Uh why did you want me to say that? Say it again. Yes, of course it is. It's just wonderful.
SPEAKER_05So, just one question. Who uh Could you do that again with your hand? Just one question. Who encouraged you to get a cell phone, Ray?
SPEAKER_01Put your hand down.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes, you did. And I'm I'm forever grateful. I really am. You're welcome. Um, but I there is a there's an addiction that I can feel with it. I I may have mentioned this before many years ago on the podcast. When I was in Australia with Sue, way back when I was 20 years old, my uncle took me to a casino and I tried one of those one-armed bandits. You know what a one-arm bandit is? Do you have a slot machine? Yeah, it's before I don't think they've still got them. I think they're more automated. They've still got them. Oh, how would you know? Uh-uh. Yeah, yeah. But I I just felt that and I I put my money in them and went and stopped. And I just couldn't, yeah, for about five minutes there, I was absolutely addicted.
Tools Not Terrors: The Phone’s Good Side
SPEAKER_05That's one of the most miserable scenes that I've seen in my life where you you want me to do the cigarette. While they're playing the slot machine. It's the slot machines. I was recently at a friend's wedding and they did something, we had to walk through a casino, and it's just death. Seriously, people sitting there, smoke-filled room, just like zombies. Just what do they look like when you're smoking? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Whoa. You joked. Whoa. Special effects. Magic cigarettes. Poor Oscar.
SPEAKER_05That was funny. How did it happen? I coughed on the phone.
SPEAKER_01But they are getting exercise. They're not just sitting there that's not. You push a button. Yeah, that's true. My favorite one is the finger exercise. Just the finger? Thank you. But my point is, my phone, especially on shorts, has that same feeling of addiction. I cannot stop sometimes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01One after the other. And I have to pull myself together and say, stop this. This is not redeeming the time. This is wasting time.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I mean, Mark, while phones can actually help our spiritual disciplines, I mean, I I use my phone constantly for, you know, the word, for researching things spiritually, all kinds of stuff. But but it can, on the other hand, be detrimental.
SPEAKER_00If it's on the other hand.
SPEAKER_05In terms of our spiritual disciplines.
SPEAKER_00For sure. You know, it's kind of quietly becoming our becoming our functional God, right? It's the first thing we check in the morning. It's the last thing we look at before we go to bed. You know, think of King David. He said, Turn my eyes from looking at worthless things and give my life in your ways. You know, if if David needed that prayer to turn away his eyes from looking at wicked, worthless things, how much more? And he didn't have a smartphone, right? How much more uh so I think that anything, something rather, is always trying to vie for your time, vie for your attention, trying to grab a hold of you, and it is studying you and it knows you, it knows what you like, and you can see that through the algorithms and the things that begin to show up. Uh, I was sharing with my wife, you know, I go, my my shoulders kind of been acting up a little bit. I I I threw it out by throwing a baseball, and uh it was a wiffle ball, actually. But I I threw it out and then I saw this advert for this little device. This ball on the stick on a chain, you go like this, and it's supposed to help your shoulder. And it's shown up all over the place inside my uh my feed. And she's all oh, send me a link. And I go, Well, it's just shown up in your feed. She's all I've never seen such a thing. So it's reading me and it's seeing me. And then I click on it, and then I see, all right, well, how can I heal my shoulder? And what things can I do? And did you get it? Uh my wife got it for me for Christmas. And did it work? He hasn't opened it yet.
SPEAKER_01You have to wait with a sore shoulder to see if it works. Yeah. That's funny. I can still hit.
Addiction By Design: Dopamine And Slots
SPEAKER_07Well, I want to go back to something that Ray was talking about because it's it's really important and true. And that is social media was created, and for that matter, the the version of the internet that we are experiencing now was created to be addictive. Uh, and and many people now, many engineers have have left andor retired from places like Facebook and Google, and they've come out and written books and now regret the work that they did. And one of the things they focus on, as a matter of fact, I don't know if you knew this or not when you mentioned this, but they focused on the reality that they actually looked at casino behavior and slot machines and the way that they created the uh experiences that we have on our phones. And so one of the things for them was endless scrolling, so you never feel like you're finished or got to the bottom. Another one is like little dopamine hits of satisfaction, so it feels like you're accomplishing something. Little noises, little noises, little like the color of the hearts that you see, everything is designed to give you the right kind of dopamine hit at the right time to keep you engaged and dedicated to it. And the other thing too is, and here's the reality and I love this. I can't remember who said this, but they said you're if you think about it, any app that you download that's free, that's a sign. It's a sign that you're not the consumer, you're the product. The consumer is the company buying your data to sell you something, which means every single app that you use that's free, ultimately it is designed to make you want something, to make you unhappy and unsatisfied, so that you buy, experience, travel, do, contribute, whatever, vote, whatever it is, those apps, you are not the consumer, you are the product.
SPEAKER_05Wow. That's that's crazy.
SPEAKER_01You know, question, sorry, you go first, DC.
SPEAKER_05Well, I was just gonna say, yeah, Oscar, that it's so good you brought that up because a lot of people forget that, you know, that there's design behind this and it's there's intentionality behind it. You know, I came across terms like uh habit loops, dopamine spikes, micro rewards, you know, that that just hit those areas of your brain where yeah, you just you keep going.
SPEAKER_00So, how how do we utilize this for God's glory?
SPEAKER_01Did you just look at my notes?
SPEAKER_00Maybe like for the gospel. Should we?
SPEAKER_01So horrible.
SPEAKER_00Should we use the thing?
SPEAKER_01I was waiting for I think you need to repent. I really that's called theft. That's called theft. Yeah, but right now, if your conscience is worrying you, your mouth will turn up at the edges. That's starting to go. Yeah. I mean, seriously, should we use the dopamine principle for the gospel? Could we, in righteousness, use those principles?
SPEAKER_07Maybe. Maybe I think it depends on how. I would say it like this. Imagine if somebody was like, I want to share the gospel with all my friends, so I'm gonna invite them to a bar and buy them shot after shot after shot, and I'm gonna get them intoxicated and they're gonna have a great time, and I'm gonna preach the gospel to them. We would say, by any means necessary, but not that mean. That's sin, right? And so, in that same way, if we're using the same kind of tactics and behavior that entice dopamine hits, that entice tribalism, I think we need to be cautious. I think we ought to use our our phones and social media for the sake of the gospel, but I think we have to be cautious to not parrot the ways of the world while doing that.
SPEAKER_01I think you that you're you're right. There was a church that started that became very, very popular about 20, 30 years ago that put that principle into practice. The pastor went to the neighbors and said, What would you like to see in your local church? And he instigated those principles. Wow. And we we know who that church is, I think.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Well, you know, there is, I I want to say there is that principle though of tact and wisdom with the loss. I mean, that's the whole that's the whole uh concept of be fishers of men. You know, we we're catching men, and there's wisdom in what ways we do that. I think again, as long as it it's not manipulative, it's it's not playing on their emotions, it's not ungodly or sinful, but there's nothing wrong with with uh you know dressing people in such a way to where it piques interest and it's not boring and it's you know and it's uh it's stimulating to their heart and mind because our faith isn't intelligent faith.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like have you ever told a lie? Yes. Boom!
unknownCorrect.
SPEAKER_05That's what you need, Ray. Carry sound effects with you. Yeah. Um I I love this this comment that that I came across. Uh the average Christian checks their phone far more than they check their soul.
SPEAKER_01That's interesting. You're about to check your phone. Of course. My soul isn't tied up with this. I'm checking my soul.
SPEAKER_05But but I think that that's those are the the parameters that I want us to talk about. Is like how because there is no question. I I have to say for myself, I've sinned with my phone because I've given it priority over things.
SPEAKER_01So, what's the last thing you look at before you go to sleep at night? I know what it is with me, and it's not like Mark. Mark looks at his phone. Last thing I see is the dark. Mark sleeps with the light on. That's okay.
SPEAKER_05Stop it. But but you know what I'm saying? Like, um there are there are issues that we have to think about, you know. Like, is my phone interfering with with my time in the word? Is it interfering with me contemplating the spiritual, you know, um feasting on the word day and night? Uh is it is it affecting, you know, that that stillness of sitting in front of God?
SPEAKER_00Do you still know that I'm God?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, because I mean, honestly, like there are times I'll be in prayer, and because my phone is next to me, I end up doing it. Like, oh yeah, oh yeah, I gotta text that person real quick.
SPEAKER_04Okay, and Lord, I do it all the time.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, same here. Last night I got time of time of looking at my phone during the night. That's what I was almost like. Yeah, it's crazy.
Using Media Wisely Without Manipulation
SPEAKER_05So, so you know, Rachel actually talked to me the other day and good. Yeah, and she said, she said, Hey, you know, because I I do a lot of spiritual disciplines and and you know, I'll do them sometimes if I don't get to them at certain points, I'll do them at home or whatever. She said, Hey, do you think what do you think about maybe like reading the physical Bible when you're when you're reading the word at home? And what does she mean physical? But I she was just saying, you know, like kind of as like as an example, even to our kids, because they don't know what I'm looking at. They don't know, you know, and is dad just on his phone all the time, not paying attention, but there's something about like seeing someone in the word. It's not about virtue signaling, but it's just like an example. And like she said also for her, like to know, oh, okay, I I'm not gonna interrupt you, you're reading the word right now, you know, kind of thing. But but kind of, I don't know, I'd I'd love to hear ideas from you guys. Like, what can we do to tame ourselves so that this thing doesn't rule our lives?
SPEAKER_07Because it can. I will say I I did I did something similar a few years ago where I stopped reading my Bible on my phone in the home, and and there is something, and Kelly was the one that pointed out, I didn't tell them I was doing this, but Kelly was the one that pointed it out. She said, Um, I think it's really cool when the kids come downstairs and they always see your Bible in a different place at a different like section, you know, that's been marked off or whatever the case, because it tells us you're reading it. And I they wouldn't get that experience if it was on my phone. And then similar, um, probably about a year ago, I committed to not take my phone into church because I usually, you know, I pull up my Bible verse as my preacher as the preacher is preaching and I have it on my phone. Um, but I like the experience and I invited other men in my church. Join me in having that tactile experience of taking your Bible into the pews. And I will tell you, selfishly as a preacher, it also helps when you look down and you see somebody looking at a Bible and not their phone. Right.
SPEAKER_01And you hear the pages turning as a. That's exactly right. Yeah, there's something amazing about that.
SPEAKER_07But that's let's apply that.
SPEAKER_01You can actually get that sound on your phone.
SPEAKER_07With our new Living Waters app, the page turning Bible. Uh but here's the thing: that reality is true in all the ways that our home phones hold us back from experiencing the real world. So if you think about the reality that we can now, like I've never, I've never seen the pyramid of Giza, but I've seen it on my phone. Right? I've never been to Yosemite, but I've seen it on my phone. I can 3D it, I can go through it on my phone, I can visit museums, whatever the case, but it's not the same thing. And so often we do this with relationships where we experience a relationship through our phone rather than in reality. Here's what I think is happening. It's like we are settling for walking into a gift shop of Yosemite and then go and then seeing all of the smaller micro half domes and paintings and going, cool, I've experienced Yosemite. It's like, no, no, no. Walk past that into the real world. So, yeah, your phone keeps you connected, but don't let it be a substitute to real connection with spouses and siblings. Yeah, your phone lets you see the world, but also go outside and experience God's creation.
Checking Your Soul Before Your Screen
SPEAKER_05Well, we talked about that this morning in our in our meeting here at the ministry. And I was just sharing with you guys how there are times when I will go outside after being at the ministry all day and realize, oh, it's hot today because you know I'm in the air conditioning all the time, or you know, and we don't, and you you mentioned in your prayer, you're talking about the the planets spinning in their orbits and stuff. And I was like, man, you know, we live in these boxes in our brains that we don't go outside of them. And like when you give yourself the opportunity to gaze even upon God's creation, it it creates space for awe and worship. And we just get in our ruts and our routines, just our head always down, looking. I mean, you know, it's proverbial now, but you go out in public and everyone, you see your family sitting at dinner at a restaurant, everyone's looking down, you know. And again, we're not saying it's it's wrong to use your phones, they're gifts, they're a blessing. But are we so regimented in that habit that we don't break away and discover things that we lost like a long time ago?
SPEAKER_00We need to put boundaries on our phone because it refuses to put boundaries on itself, right? And I forget who it was it that said that there's blessing within the boundaries of God's precepts, right? If you if you want to be blessed by God, you have to stay within his boundaries. Yeah, you can't go outside of those boundaries to find fill in the blank, right? Uh Luke chapter 8, verse 14, it describes those choked by the cares and the riches and the pleasures of life. Notice it says choked. It doesn't say smothered or stabbed or struck, it's choked slowly, silently, without drama, right? It's not gonna argue with you. So, how do we now win this fight with our phones? Just one step at a time, right? Because it wants to distract you from prayer and from reading and from learning. And we we maybe we disguise it as learning. I don't know if you guys are kind of like me. Like I in my Instagram, I will save posts and I'll put them inside of a folder, and I will get to that folder on working out someday, right? And in the meantime, that folder is called maybe uh arms or chest or legs, and it's filled with like a hundred different uh videos that I will never, ever, ever get to. So it's it's one thing at a time, right? It's keeping each other accountable. And hey, what are you doing? And I like what Rachel said. You know, you're trying to come up with something very practical here, and same thing, you know, with Kelly. Hey, physical Bible, physical Bible. Now, Ray would probably have the physical Bible with the phone inside the Bible, so Sue doesn't know when she's scrolling in the midst of it. That is a great idea.
SPEAKER_05When Oscar when Oscar said no phone in church, Ray started sweating. No, I know I didn't hear that.
SPEAKER_03No, I'm not convicted on anything.
SPEAKER_05You know what I was thinking? How there's no there's no question that as the world has changed, people have changed. So, for example, you know, you think about biblical times, like people didn't really need to work out per se because they walked everywhere. They lifted things with their own hands. They they had to, you know what I'm saying? So now we're in an era where you drive everywhere, you have technology. So we've we've seen people become obese. There's no question it's been affected. And I came across this, and this was interesting, about you know what's happened with with our modern age in terms of social media and our phones. Digital hurry rewires brains, shortens attention spans, and kills stillness.
SPEAKER_03Get on with it.
SPEAKER_05But you know what I'm saying? Can you do it in double speed? But honestly, I wonder how how all of this is reshaping us, how we relate, how we think, our attention span, you know, that there's gotta be negative repercussions.
SPEAKER_07One of those negative repercussions, Jonathan Haidt talks about the increase in social anxiety amongst uh generations that grew up with social media so prevalent. And so he says, you know, you think about how um maybe the way we grew up, if you're out in public and you're bored, you'd look up, look around, and say, Hi, hey, how you doing? You'd have all of these interactions. He says, if you think about it, like you have all of these 10,000 micro interactions growing up as kids, walking down the hall in school, whatever the case, where you're saying hello, you bump into somebody, say sorry, whatever the case. And nowadays, people are growing up with their phones in their faces and their earbuds in their ears. And so they're losing out on those 10,000 micro interactions in childhood, so that when they move into adulthood and they need to engage with people, they're having they're experiencing a greater sense of social anxiety because they haven't been exposed to the world around them in these microtransactional ways.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. And and you know, you you think about I lost it. Right.
Attention, Anxiety, And Lost Micro-Moments
SPEAKER_01Well, I am thinking about I'm thinking about Colossians 3, 2. Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth. And I think that's the key. And if you look at the King James, it doesn't say set your mind, it says set your affections on things above. And I was talking to a girl yesterday, and um she said, I'm a Christian. I say, You're reading the word daily, she says, I just don't have time. I says, Who gave you your eyes? Who gave your brain? Who gave your your family, your friends, your loved ones? Everything you've got comes from God, so you've got to set your affection on Him. You shall love the Lord your God with your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And that's the first and greatest commandment. So when you do that, you set your affection on things above, then everything else falls into place. It's a matter of seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added, and that's where the key comes in. Moderation. Oh, that would make a good book because what is moderation, easy? Yeah, self-control, yeah. Um, it's a matter of set your affections, like you said a lot of things in your life, but you set your affections, it's your own will that does it. That's good. I am gonna set my affection on things that are above. And you're talking about looking at creation. One thing that just makes me think of God all the time, and it's usually when I get on my bike, right out to go to the local college, once again I look to the skies. I just can't help it. And it takes my breath away, and I immediately just begin praying and talking to God because the heavens are declaring his glory to me.
SPEAKER_05Amen. Yeah, and I I I think honestly, uh it's it goes back to what Mark said though earlier, and I I keyed in on that word, Mark. You said fight. That's what we don't do. We don't fight. We we fight like a man. Yeah, fight like a man, man, man, man, man. That's a new theme song from my book, Sonic. Um wonder it's not selling. Man. Um, but we don't fight, we surrender. Yeah. Meaning that it's not that it's that we we just don't even think about it. We just go. We're in this stream, and things are happening to us, and we're hurting ourselves and others and relationships, and spiritually we're harming ourselves because again, like we can just, oh yeah, I have my Bible on my phone and I look things up and I listen to worship music, and I but okay, well, weigh that out against how much doom scrolling you do, you know, and brainless stuff. And then doom scrolling. It's just like where you just keep going, going one video after the other, with no dips, one thing after the other on social media, one post-what do you do from 3 a.m. to six a.m.? Ray's discovered he's a doom scroller. That's that's why Ray's fingers always go like this wherever he goes. Uh but but no, but fighting, you know, because I mean you think of some of the idolatrous things we do. Like we go to our phones instead of the Lord, maybe for reassurance, for uh his word, you know, for encouragement. Uh, you know, his presence for joy. I mean, this becomes our God.
SPEAKER_00Do you think your doom scrolling would end if instead of using your thumb you had to use your tongue? You just get tired of doing it.
SPEAKER_07There should be an app. Yeah, Mark. You should come out with something like that. You know what's interesting too though, easy, is how our phones. Yeah, forget y'all. If I don't say his name, then he'll sit. Forget y'all, yeah. Uh, but really, I'm looking at you guys. Um, but what's interesting is that how our phones re force us to reframe sin and we actually switch it. We see what is usually seen as sin in the world as a positive attribute. So if you think about this, if I if you were going to a church and two of the pastors or elders, one of them started talking poorly about the other one, like that guy's a compromiser on a secondary issue. How dare he? He's a wolf in sheep's closing on a secondary issue. We would be like, man, how are you like, what are you doing? That's gossip, that's slander. But when a social media influencer with a hundred and something thousand followers and$18 million a year donation form starts talking about that towards other pastors, we're like, oh, that's a really good point. Wow, I gotta be a part of this. Is how Tony Renke puts it. He says, in an age when anyone with a smartphone can publish dirt at anyone else, we must know that spreading antagonistic messages online with the intent of provoking hostility without any desire of resolution is what the world calls trolling, but what the New Testament calls slander. He goes on and says, our gluttonous fascination with the failures of others long predates social media. Fault finding is an ancient hobby meant to prop up a facade of self importance, even among Christians. Fault finding destroys our love for others. Fault finding runs contrary to Calvary. In Christ, our pardon says. Sins are plunged into the grave, but the slander keeps going at night to exhale his neighbor's sins in order to drag those decomposing offenses back into the light and of the of the city square.
SPEAKER_02That's so good.
SPEAKER_01Oscar, find me the names of people that do that and I'll make a video about it.
SPEAKER_05You look at the people's idea. Yeah, you think of so I want to talk about positive and negative. So first, you know, the negative uh elements associated with our smartphones, you know. Like you said, Oscar, yeah, slander, jealousy, uh, envy, um, you know, especially, you know, gossip and slander. There's this sort of comfort level because you're not face-to-face with someone. People hide right behind the screens. You can kind of throw something out there or jump in on a post and just put a comment in and no one knows who you are because you don't put your name in the, you know, as your handle.
SPEAKER_00Keyboard warrior.
Set Your Affections Above
SPEAKER_05Yeah, right. And so it it gives it gives almost uh a channel or an outlet for for sin like that, slander, gossip, uh, but also jealousy. I I think if I if you were to do like a study on how much jealousy, you know, is has started to spike in our day and age, I think it'd be huge because you're constantly seeing, you know, people he got this and she got that, and they accomplished this and that. You know, and again, of course, everybody puts their best foot forward and it's nice, happy, smiley pictures, and no one's talking about their struggles and battles. And and I think that's where that element of loneliness can also be created, right? We think we're in contact with everyone and in touch with everything, but there's loneliness.
SPEAKER_01If you go back in time 30 years and talk to Steve Jobs and give him some advice at what's gonna happen in the future, what would you say to him? Would you say what you're gonna what you're gonna give humanity is brilliant and wonderful, or you're gonna say, don't do this?
SPEAKER_05Oh boy. I I would I think I would say I would say do it for sure, because of the the benefits are massive. And I think that's a good idea.
SPEAKER_01Well the lives that are being saved when you think about it.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean the the the pluses are massive, but I I wish honestly that it kind of every phone came with you know, like how cigarette boxes have surgeon general warning. This can cost can some sort of surgeon general warning. Like, hey, this can really make you a shallow and anti-social and selfish and envious person. You know what is it? Uh proceed with care or you know, use use, you know, handle with care.
SPEAKER_01But it's like the guy that invented the gun. If you go back and talk to him, say, you really, really want to do this? Put a gunpowder in a little metal thing that's gonna go come out. Yeah. And it's gonna say, Oh, this is gonna be good. You better go hunting. Say, hang on, you know how many people's gonna people are gonna die because of this invention.
SPEAKER_05Isn't it interesting though when you when you connect those dots, right? Like thinking of of of that, like the gun. But then you think of how many lives have been saved because of guns. You think of like I'm thinking of Oppenheimer, you know, with with the nuclear bomb.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_05I mean, think of what happened, but if we didn't have it, what would have happened to to the world if we didn't stop Japan? And you know, so it's it's interesting when you see the same with the negatives and aeroplane.
SPEAKER_01Think of how many people have died because of car accidents, but think of the convenience of the car, how incredible it is.
SPEAKER_07You know what's never hurt anybody? Baklava. I don't know that's good.
SPEAKER_00Do you guys have any go-to apps that you think are, I don't know, maybe obscure that not a lot of people are familiar with? I mean, there's Bible apps, like I like the Word of Promise Bible app where you can grab a hold of a verse and put it on repeat, and it just does that single verse over and over and over again as you're trying to memorize. Do you guys have something like that on your phones?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The weather. The weather. Yeah. You didn't know you'd get the never changing, it's just so wonderful.
SPEAKER_07Uh I think a huge one for me is Feedly F-E-E-D-L-Y. And it's basically just a news feed app. Apple has their own news feed app. Any of these new news feed apps are great. And the reason the way I use Feedly is that I went in there and I told it what sources I wanted. And I I created a plethora of sources that have biases, no biases, biases on every angle. Um, I told it specifically what I want to be interested in from those sources. Um, and then I kind of curated what I want to receive, what information I want to see about the world around me. And the reason why that's beneficial is because at least feedly, it doesn't endlessly scroll. Uh, in other words, when you go to certain news websites, like they're just constantly throwing stuff at you. When you're not satisfied, you will scroll until you find something satisfactory. That's like gambling. You're you're looking for that dopamine kit. Where feedly feels more like an old school newspaper. I've curated it. It's a limited amount of stuff every day. Um, when I get to the bottom, it's done, and it's all stuff that I am I know will be good for me to be informed by. And all the other junk that's tantalizing and that gets me riled up but actually serves no purpose in my life. I don't see it.
SPEAKER_01Well, I love that because I I get frustrated as soon as I read the news each night before we go to sleep, and I just find myself going straight into celebrity news, which I don't want.
SPEAKER_05Right, that's exactly right. Right. Yeah, I mean, I love the scripture memory app. That is like is that what it's called? Yeah. Um, well, there's a word of promise there. They may have they have an app too as well. But the scripture memory app.
SPEAKER_00You're talking about the first letter of each word.
SPEAKER_05Yes, where you type that in. And I mean, I've I've memorized books in the New Testament using that, and because it's just so it's so well designed, you know. Um, yeah, and and I yeah, and and again, the positives, you know, that that we have. Of course, the negatives, like we were talking about, you know, you've got you know, all that stuff that it brings up, but you know, also pornography, right, is is a massive issue. Um smartphones have destroyed the world because of that, because it's accessibility, it's it's also uh privacy. You could be hiding out somewhere, no one no one knows. You it's with you wherever you go, portability, you know. So those are those are some of the the destructive elements, you know, I think that that that it creates, covetousness, uh, you know, along with jealousy and enemy, but wanting things, all you know, advertisements popping up all the time, you know. But uh the positives, yeah. I mean, you can memorize scripture, you can listen to podcasts, you can research things in the word. I mean, it's huge. You gonna say Oscar?
Practical Boundaries That Actually Work
SPEAKER_07Um, yeah, I like that we're getting into like practical ideas and takeaway. And actually, I had written down a few that I've just implemented into my own life. Um, as you know, the this isn't like law, this doesn't make you a better Christian. These are these are just practices that I have found to be helpful to separate me from the phone um I love to hate. Uh, first off, I turn off all my notifications, other than text messages, phone calls, and emails. Emails because work, I I, you know, I we work, I work. Uh, but but social media notifications, news notifications, all that is done. And the reason, the heart behind that is I will decide when to look at that stuff, not my phone. Yeah. Additionally, I made my, I know that you can easily search any app on your phone, obviously, but I made my apps hard to find. I have to swipe, tap, get into a folder, and then pull out that that social media app. I just make it harder for me.
SPEAKER_01So uh Oscar will send your phone to Oscar and he'll sanctify it.
SPEAKER_07No, no, no. You should start a ministry. A few other ones, really, this is probably the most important one for our family is that we have a dedicated phone box in our home. So our phones are not roaming around. They are not on the couch with us, they're not at the dinner table with us, they don't go with us to the bathroom. They stay in this box in our home. And if you want to, if you if you got a text, you want to check an email, whatever the case, you walk over to that box and you pull it out. And one of the things that we do is when our kids have friends over, we ask them to participate in that house rule. And what's amazing is they all love it. They're not bummed by it, they're not frustrated by it. They love, they now know, and those who come over often, they put the phone in the box and then the phone. This is a physical. It's a physical. We bought a box online that fits, you know, 20 phones or whatever.
SPEAKER_05Oh, so it's an actual, it's made for that.
SPEAKER_07It's I don't know if it's made for that. Kelly found it's a wooden box. You can get nothing special.
SPEAKER_01English phone booth.
SPEAKER_07Uh one other one. Um, monochrome coloring. So if you guys look at my phone right now, I turned off all the coloring. And the reason why is it just makes it more annoying to stare at your phone. You can go into your settings. Um, maybe we can put it in the description of the podcast, but you can go into your settings because it's been proven that the color formations that they use are addictive and enticing. And I can tell you firsthand that I hate looking at this screen. So can you click on an app?
SPEAKER_00Is the app in that colour?
SPEAKER_07No, then it'll go back to regular color. But as it is here, it's monochrome so that you just generally you look at your phone and immediately your brain isn't enticed to go deeper. It's being told this is not an enjoyable experience. It's like tasting something.
SPEAKER_01I do a similar thing by just turning my phone off. That's great.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, no color. Man, Oscar, that I want to hear more of it, but I just gotta say, I'm blessed by your, you know, how proactive you are. Yeah. Because this is this is what I'm talking about. Like you've you've taken intentional steps. It's not like, oh yeah, you know, this and that. That's what we need for, you know, and again, we're all different. Like for some people, it's not a problem. They don't have a problem with the colors or whatever, but but you have a certain desire, you have a goal of how you want to function in life. And so you're taking proactive steps. That's what we're talking about. Like we're all different, we all have different convictions and different rhythms, but but evaluate, examine, and then take action.
SPEAKER_07Well, the word, the key word that you use there is take control. I would say take back control. Because right now, your your phone, most likely for many of us, our phones uh have been designed to control our habits. And taking back control of your habits is exactly what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_00So is there a certain age? Is there a certain maturity level where you begin to give your kids uh a phone or social media? How do we begin to tackle that? And then how do we now reclaim that? Take back when a parent says, I gave my six-year-old uh her own little iPad. And we see this when we go to restaurants, right? Little four-year-olds, five-year-olds, and they're watching movies and they got the headphones on, they're not bothering mom and dad. How do they reclaim that time when they've already let go of that leash and allowed their child to roam freely?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, that that's a very difficult thing to do, which is why I always talk about you know, helping people at the entry level rather than like having to undo what's been done. So I would tell parents, you need to be very, very careful with giving your kids autonomy with electronics and especially iPads and phones and stuff like that. Because they it's like it's like giving your kid free reign of a candy shop. Like get what you want, eat what you want. They're gonna go crazy. It's too good, isn't it? Yeah, and so it's too much. And if you want to destroy your life, your kids' lives, give them unfettered access, which means no blocks, no, you know how many kids, six, seven, eight, nine, get hooked on porn because they just heard something and put in a search word and boom, and they're so you you want to hit it there. But I would say if you're already there and your kids have free reign, excuse me, the thing that's needed is courage, and you have to dial that back.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 40 days in your room.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, walk them in. But you gotta you gotta pull back. But how do you do it? Yeah, you do it with humility, you do it with with uh confession. Hey, mom and dad actually realized we shouldn't have done this. We love you, and so we're realizing that this isn't best for you, honey. So here's what we're doing. And it looks different for everyone, but we're pulling it back, we're cutting it back, we're you know.
Parents, Kids, And Reclaiming The Leash
SPEAKER_07Yeah, uh Jonathan Haidt uh wrote a book called Anxious Generation. Uh, it's really good. He's not a believer, um, although he seems to lean towards conservative values. But to be clear, he's an atheist, he touts evolution, so I'm not endorsing him necessarily, but I will say that he's done a lot of great work in this. And one of the stories that he opens that book with, and this is a true story, he says that I think it was in the 60s, that um Camill partnered with a uh school board, and on the first day of school, all the kids showed up. This is elementary school, all the kids showed up with a fresh pack of cigarettes on their desk. And he points out as absurd as that sounds to us now that we know about the detriments of smoking, that's what it will sound like 20 years from now when we tell people we gave 10-year-olds social media access and smartphones, they will be outraged by it. And he says already there's a there's a a lot of research that's being being brought out that says that you really shouldn't have social media until you're 18 because it because, like we talked about, it's addictive behavior. And the younger your brain is, the more susceptible it is towards addiction and behaviors like that. And so unfortunately, it does need to be unwound. What I would say, uh, if you're already there, is not just confession, I love that, not just courage, I love that, but also find ways to replace that time. So, one of the other things that he points out is that in the 80s and 90s, as local news started developing, we heard every single story of a kid being addicted, and parents started to believe the world isn't safe. He points out today the world is safer than it ever has been before for your kids to go outside and have um unparented playtime. That's what he says. Like statistically speaking, it's the safest time ever. And yet, here's what he says happens is that parents were so afraid of their kids going outside that they feel like they're safer at home in front of a screen. But in reality, they're actually not safe in front of that screen because all the things that we've been talking about. In other words, let your kids go outside and play. As scary as that might sound to you, let your kids go outside, go play with them, go find kids in the neighborhood to set up play deeds. Your kids are dying for playtime, and the screen is not a good substitute for that.
SPEAKER_01And he's talking about going out and playing with your kids. I think one of the neatest memories I have is building a playhouse for my kids. Took a long time. It was complicated, it had windows and doors and a roof and everything, but building it with them was a great thing to do because we are creative beings because we're made in the image of God. We love creating with an ingenuity and um it's a it's a great thing to do.
SPEAKER_05Frogging. Frogging or something.
SPEAKER_01Frogging, yes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I mean, look, get a puzzle, man. Sit down and do a puzzle with your head. So do I. But that but that creates that creates time to talk, to get into their life. Get a get a model airplane, you know, something. All I like is my phone. Give me my phone. Mark, you're gonna say?
SPEAKER_00I wasn't. I'm just admiring you guys.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. But but uh, but you know, do so like right now, my my grandson Haddon is obsessed with making paper airplanes.
SPEAKER_01I like paper airplanes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, well, you were there on Thanksgiving. He's making them for I'm telling you, he pulls out a uh Rachel's ordering more and more paper, he pulls out a stack and he'll make like 50 airplanes, and just like you know, it keeps making them over and over. Yeah, we've got him a book and it has different types of airplanes, and man, and he's getting good. He's only four and a half, you know? Yeah, but you know, stuff like that where you you you get your kids to disconnect and think and enjoy and use their hands, eye coordination skills technically. Mark, would you would what would you say about um how would you advise parents that are dealing with the peer pressure of but my friends have and the kids acting like they're being deprived because they can't have this or that or whatever?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, we we don't compete, you know, with with that sort of noise that's going on. You know, inside this rule, inside this house we have rules. You know, the the Bible says that the commandments of God are not burdensome. So I would share with my kids, you know, the commandments of this house are not burdensome. Uh the commandments of God are not burdensome, nor are the rules of this house. And and if you don't like the rules of the house, you know, you know, God bless you. We we love you. You're you're welcome to leave. You guys are all you know 18 years old. There's just certain things that must take place in order for there to be order. You know, if if a parent comes along and says to me, you know, my my child who's six years old, you know, has this iPad, I don't know how to take it away, I go, you just take it away. You you you just take it away. Certain things you just can't explain, or that that's gonna make sense. Yeah, if my four-year-old wanted to go play on this play on the freeway with knives, you know, you could try to explain to them that playing with knives out on the freeway is not gonna make sense, it's not gonna be good for you. At the end of the day, you just need to parent. Yeah, you you just need to make those decisions.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I I like what you had said, you know, take fault where you're to take fault. But uh, and I and I learned from you earlier when my kids were younger, that when when you parent, it's like you tie a big lasso around your kids and and you hold them really, really tight. And you and you don't give them much liberty to do anything. And then each person's gonna be different. It's not age-related, but it's you know, what are they doing? What decisions are they making? And then you begin to loosen that that leash, if you would, that that lasso a little bit until finally you let go of that lasso altogether, but they're not leaving because they become comfortable around you, they become comfortable and knowing that you're your friend, you're there. Like somebody, you know, if my child were to say, oh no, I'm pregnant, I want them to go, oh no, I'm pregnant. Dad is the first person I need to go to. Yeah. Not, oh no, I'm pregnant. I can't let dad find this out. Right? And so this is now the antithesis of what we see inside the world, which is don't tie a lasso around them, give them free liberty and reign to do anything and everything they want to do. And what happens when they hit 13, 14, 15 years old, you're trying to lasso them in and you're trying to rein them back in. We don't allow that. You shouldn't do that. And now you're fighting against your child because you gave them free reign. So, what would I do? Listen, just take it away, just go back to being a parent. Yeah, go do what you need to do, and it it'll become clear to you, yeah, you know, and get accountable with other people.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I remember first learning that that illustration from Ted Tripp's book, Shepherding a Child's Heart, you know, and you just talked about how, yeah, like it, like with a with your puppy, you give it like a hundred-foot leash and it's used to that, and then it starts getting wild and you try to reel it in and it's used to all that, you know, and so it's hard. But if you let the slack little by little as it grows, then it's able to handle it and it you don't have that fight, like you said. So so that's good. Yeah. And you know, just some things I came across too that that uh you can do Sabbath from screens, like say, hey, this weekend, I'm just not touching my phone, I'm just gonna make that commitment, or I'm gonna go a day without my phone. I know Ray. Um we can help you, Ray. Yeah, you know, turning off notifications, putting the phone to bed before you go to bed, uh, establishing scripture before screen. No Bible, no breakfast, no scripture, no screen.
SPEAKER_00Really quick. People go, Well, I need my phone as an alarm.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
Replace Screens With Real-World Play
SPEAKER_00Go back and get yourself an alarm. Five bucks on Amazon. Right? A what? An alarm.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah, using real Bibles and devotions to avoid digital drift, you know. Um, yeah. Oh yeah. Evidence Bible. Yeah. So, anyway, so many things to do, guys. Uh the the key is Honoring the Lord, you know, examining our hearts, having integrity, and caring. Like you gotta care. You can't just be like, uh, whatever, I like it. I don't care. Just do some time of like soul searching. Ask your wife, ask your kids. Hey kids, do you feel like I'm not attentive when I'm with you guys? Like, do you feel like I'm on my phone too much? Stop it.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna ask Sue, but she's just busy on a phone. I don't want to interrupt her. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So anyway, we hope uh this is this is encouraged all of you friends listening out there. Um that there's yeah, there's a way. You don't have to, you don't have to get stuck in the in the craziness. So there you have it. Don't forget the Ten Commandments point Points. Point coins, digital version. Just kidding.
SPEAKER_01Oh, we could have a one-on-one, we could have a one-armed banner for the Tinker Mama coins.
SPEAKER_05Don't forget those friends, the treasure chests, all kinds of stuff. We have a new we have a new treasure chest called Ray Comfort's car. Oh, this is the mockery. I wish I had my grandma's sweater so I can impersonate Oscar, but I don't today. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share. Remember podcast at LivingWaters.com with your thoughts and your insults, especially toward Oscar.
SPEAKER_06Thank you for joining us, we're seeing you next time on the Living Waters podcast.
SPEAKER_05Where? We have no idea what we're doing.
