Ep. 377 - The War on Masculinity 2.0: Why Men Feel Useless Today

Masculinity is under attack from every direction, leaving many men confused, ashamed, or pulled toward extremes. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar confront the cultural assault that labels masculinity as toxic on one side while promoting a hyper-masculine version on the other, arguing that both miss the biblical model shaped by Christ. The guys emphasize that masculinity is rooted in Christlikeness, beginning with laying down one’s life. Scripture brings clarity where culture brings confusion, reminding listeners that God looks at the heart, and that strength and tenderness are not opposites. Jesus wept, David cried, and Jeremiah lamented, yet none were weak. The mixed messaging men receive today leaves many unsure how to lead, yet biblical leadership is grounded in humility, courage, and obedience to God.

The guys explain that leadership is a hallmark of biblical manhood, yet many men feel shamed for stepping into that role. Culture rejects masculine leadership while promoting blurred distinctions between men and women. The gospel is the solution because it transforms men from the inside out. Many young men are searching for fathers and mentors, often seeking structure through the military or other systems. The guys challenge men in the church to disciple their own children and open their homes, modeling what faithful leadership, marriage, and responsibility look like, lived out daily.

True masculinity is marked by honoring women and walking in obedience to God. David’s charge to Solomon to be strong was rooted in keeping the Lord’s commands. Oscar outlines four dimensions of biblical masculinity: spiritual devotion, physical stewardship, emotional maturity, and social responsibility. Men are called to grow in each area, recognizing that emotional health and spiritual depth are essential, not optional. Older men are urged to disciple younger men even when it feels uncomfortable, because growth often requires friction. The model for manhood is found in Scripture, refined through godly examples, and sustained through community in the local church.

Faithfulness, the guys argue, is the most significant mark of masculinity. When men fail, the call is not despair but repentance. Men are called to be faithful in repentance, letting humility define their strength. Masculinity is bending the knee to Christ, serving others, and walking day by day in obedience. Leadership without servanthood is empty, but servanthood grounded in Christ reflects true power. The foundation of manhood is knowing Jesus, becoming like Him, and living faithfully within the body of believers.

Thanks for listening! If you’ve been helped by this podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d consider subscribing, sharing, and leaving us a comment and 5-star rating!
 
Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
You can find helpful counseling resources at biblicalcounseling.com.
Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.

You can connect with us at podcast@livingwaters.com. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Transcript

Mixed Messages About Men

SPEAKER_02 0:00

You know, our culture is giving kind of a mixed message to men, right? You're toxic and you're not stepping up.

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Right. Good point. Right?

SPEAKER_02 0:08

It's like you're toxic, we don't have anything to do with you. And why aren't you stepping up? Why aren't you doing something about it? It's not making sense. And the world is being confused. And I think that that's creeping into the church, right? And we are we've kind of lost our voice.

SPEAKER_05 0:26

I created drama. I said, mama, please, please, please, please buy me a llama. She said, No, you need an animal, it's an attacker. So I'm gonna buy you an alpaca. Not your best. Two of the most fascinating animals, llamas and alpacas.

SPEAKER_07 0:44

You can buy them as pits, can you?

SPEAKER_05 0:46

Uh some places. Can they both spit? When they see spiders. How in the world can an animal like spit? That's what a camel does, isn't it?

SPEAKER_07 0:59

Well a llama does it. Camel small. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:04

But is it why is it a defense mechanism? Like what would a spit make it? I have a friend. So you have a friend?

SPEAKER_02 1:10

Whoever, every time he sees a spider, he spits.

SPEAKER_05 1:15

Why, Ray?

SPEAKER_01 1:18

Jalen Ramsey just got spit on in the NFL. Did you see that? No. The other guy got suspended. Nothing to do with spiders?

SPEAKER_07 1:25

Oh my please. What? Oh, please. That's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

You know what I have? I have a lot of black widows at my house. Do you have black widows at your house? I love black widows.

SPEAKER_05 1:34

Ray, but okay, you you don't like spiders. Spiders? But were you the spider killer in your house? Did you kill the spiders for your family?

SPEAKER_07 1:44

I had to. Yeah. But when Jacob was about three years old, he walked into a very big, thick spider web and he screamed, just like a little little kid did. And I send that spider to heaven for him.

Llamas, Alpacas, And Comic Relief

SPEAKER_05 1:57

Oh, that happened in our house a couple years ago. Kylie opened the sliding door to go outside, and the most blood curdling scream I've ever heard in my life. Yeah. Yeah, we had a talk after that. Oh. Yeah, it was bad. Anyway, I love llamas.

SPEAKER_07 2:15

I love alpacas. So someone's gonna send us an alpaca. Each of us an alp an eight-ounce alpaca.

SPEAKER_05 2:25

A service animal. What do they call those things? Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

They got nice faces, haven't they?

SPEAKER_05 2:30

They're really cool. I'm intrigued by them.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Did I ever tell you that the alpaca statue story? When Kelly and I were dude, stop.

SPEAKER_05 2:37

This is a joke. No, this is not a joke.

SPEAKER_01 2:40

Although it it's funny. Uh when Kelly and I were buying our first home, you know, we were doing the whole um.

SPEAKER_05 2:50

Yeah, was that your home in the canyon?

SPEAKER_01 2:52

In the canyon, yeah. So we, you know, you'd show up and and you'd tour the home and you'd look through it. And so in the canyon, there were some interesting homes. And uh we showed up to one of them. We had the kids in the car that are very young. And so I'm like, I'll go in first. And you know, if it's a good spot to bring the kids, then you'll go in after me. I walk into this house, and there is a woman with a mustache sitting on the couch. All around the all around, everywhere is just guinea pigs. No, like on the carpet, dude. On the carpet. They had carved out this little section where you could walk, and then everything else belonged to the bunnies and the guinea pigs. So I walk in and she's just sitting there with her mustache, and she's all have a look around. So I start walking around. The first room that we walked into was just floor-to-ceiling old computers. They were packed, they were uh, what do you call them? Porters. Porters. The second room I walked into, floor to ceiling, mini statues of llamas and alpacas. What? Floor to like it was the clean, it was the only room that was clean. The the alpacas and and llama statues were crystal clean, bright white. Yeah. Then we went into the master bedroom and uh it was all like medieval times. There was like a throne room, there was a shield. I walked out and Kelly goes, So how is it? I'm like, um, I'll hold the kids here, and there's a lady with a mustache. That's all I said to her. And then she walked in and experienced the rest. Dude, it was we did not buy that house.

SPEAKER_05 4:27

They weren't pack rats, they were alpaca rats.

SPEAKER_07 4:30

They were alpha kids in California,$500 to$10,000, depending on the fleece. That's the cost of an alpaca. Oh, that's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah. What'd you call it? Fido. Ow. Alpaca.

SPEAKER_05 4:47

Yeah, I was uh, but my uh my first like real impression that like I thought, man, these are pretty cool. Remember uh Napoleon Dynamite? Oh yeah. Tina.

SPEAKER_01 4:58

Tina eat your food, Tina.

SPEAKER_05 5:00

Eat your food, come get some dinner. And he starts throwing this. One of the greatest movies of all time. It really is. Uh anyway, um, I don't know why I talked about that stuff, but I did.

Listener Note From Sergei

SPEAKER_08 5:12

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 5:13

Well, so that's the podcast for today. That's it. Alpacos and llamas. All right, friends. Time for a cool glassy comment. This is from Sergei. Finally. Hello, my name is Sergei. I've listened from the start to finish in chronological order all of the episodes. And it took me two years. Sorry, started late. Today I finally caught up to the current episode. I got saved in 2016 and soon found the Atheist Delusion film, and it changed my life and taught me that there really is a way to share the gospel to self-proclaimed atheists. Ever since I've been keeping up with the Living Waters YouTube channel and was learning and practicing witnessing at my community college. In 2019, I made the decision to go to Bible college out of state, and the Lord prepared me for full-time ministry. Thank you all for the amazing impact, and may the Lord continue this work at Living Waters. Praise the Lord, Sergey. Yeah. We want to meet you, brother. Yes. I was thinking that hopefully he has a Russian background in LA. Sergey. So he can beat us up. I wonder.

SPEAKER_07 6:23

That was an awkward silence. That was anticipation.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Have you guys ever wondered if anybody in Slovenia listens to the podcast?

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Yes. In fact, the Living Waters podcast is number eight on Apple. Wow. In Slovenia. I love that. Great Slovenia. Oh, Slovenia. Every time I hear Slovenia breaks my heart. Yes. No, because wait, every time you're there? Every time I hear the word, the name Slovenia. Because one year I went and spoke in Austria for a church from Germany.

SPEAKER_02 6:58

I love Austria.

SPEAKER_05 6:58

In the castle, uh castle on a hill. On a lake. Oh, it's beautiful. Far away. And we were gonna go to Italy. And um just gone long. Yeah, it's a long story.

SPEAKER_02 7:09

We're having a story amongst us, I think. So none of us are listening right now.

SPEAKER_05 7:15

Anyway, bottom line is we went into Italy and it was fine. But to go to Slovenia, maybe because it wasn't part of the EU, I don't know, you needed a passport. And before we left, the pastor told the group, there were a bunch of teenagers, make sure to bring your passport. Okay, okay. So man, Italy, okay, I'm gonna go into another country. We get to the border. Oh, I don't have my passport. Who? You? Someone, no, someone else. So I was deprived of Slovenia because someone didn't bring their passport.

SPEAKER_07 7:39

So that was the bottom line? Yeah, that's it. That was the end of the story. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:43

What do you mean? No, we were we drove from Austria into Italy, and then we were gonna.

SPEAKER_02 7:47

So they left their passport in Austria?

SPEAKER_05 7:49

Yeah, they didn't bring their passport. Remember I left my passport. So we couldn't get into Slovenia.

SPEAKER_07 7:53

Is it Milan that I left my passport in the hotel when the police Oh Italy?

Travel Tales And Media Plugs

SPEAKER_05 7:58

Yeah, Milan, Italy. When you thought the police officer was a homeless guy. He thought the police officer was a homeless guy. He turned out to be like the top cop in the area.

SPEAKER_07 8:07

He yelled, yelled at me in Italian for an hour.

SPEAKER_05 8:10

Milan was cool, man. Not as cool as Rome, though, boys. Oh, Rome. I love Rome.

SPEAKER_07 8:16

Uh seriously, Mark was funny in that program because you just said, oh, the mafia have got Ray, let's just move on or something like that.

SPEAKER_05 8:22

Eddie did a marvelous job with the editing on that. Yeah. Yeah, because uh Mark goes, did she just say mafia? Like in his head, but he had this look on his face.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Let's get out of here. Ray will find his way home.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

By the way, this is uh all this you can see in season four of The Way of the Master, which is on the livingwaters.tv platform. You can go there and take a look. You are you guys are talking about one of the episodes of season four. That's why you're ahead of Mark.

SPEAKER_05 8:50

Yeah, Mark Arian. Yeah, so um, anyway, Slovenia, thank you.

SPEAKER_07 8:55

Oh, I love whenever I hear Slovenia, I think of easy being with someone who didn't have a past.

War On Masculinity Begins

SPEAKER_05 9:00

It would be 41 countries now, not 40, but anyway. And now, radically revolutionary resource, this podcast is pranking Fight Like a Man. I'm not being self-serving. Written about bold biblical battle plan for personal purity. I haven't promoted it in a while, guys. Um, but we're talking about manhood today.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

So by the way, guys at my church are taking a bunch of young men and parents through Fight Like a Man. Yeah, bold biblical battle plan for personal purity. I sent you a text.

SPEAKER_05 9:28

Oh, that's right. I responded.

SPEAKER_01 9:30

They asked if you would come and speak, and you said no, thank you.

unknown 9:32

I did not.

SPEAKER_05 9:35

He's too scared. I don't care. Yeah. Anyway, uh, check it out. It'll help me.

SPEAKER_07 9:40

Second book, Flight Like a Man. Where you travel the world on the seven seas.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

Everybody's looking for something. Some of them want to use you. Ooh, right. Some of them want to be used by you. Some of them want to use you, some of them want to be by me.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

You're gonna get a cease and desist from that band.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

You ruled our song. Oh, that was so much fun. The Messicene rates.

SPEAKER_01 10:14

Couldn't help it. Dude, when you snap, it sounds like you're snapping an Indian.

SPEAKER_05 10:22

All right, friends, file like a man.

SPEAKER_03 10:25

All right, Brazil book.

SPEAKER_05 10:27

Yeah. See how nice I am?

SPEAKER_07 10:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 10:28

Yeah. But no, I've been excited. Oh, and by the way, be on the lookout because study guide is coming. The publisher's getting close attention to the study guide. Let's go. It's exciting. All right. Don't forget the Living Waters mug, having a study Bible, Living Waters TV, all that.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

I get what to help you at Living Waters.

SPEAKER_05 10:48

Yeah. And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel. Shout out to our homies in Vietnam. I know people listen in Vietnam. I grew up with Vietnamese.

SPEAKER_01 10:56

I want to go to the thing. That's what that's like top of the list. Vietnam. Japan and Vietnam are up there for me.

SPEAKER_07 11:02

You can speak Vietnamese, Kondra.

SPEAKER_03 11:08

Yeah, Mark and I grew up a little cycle.

SPEAKER_05 11:12

No, I counted to 10 and then I said, I love you, now what do I do? Really? Yeah. Did you say what do I do? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

And I love you now, what do I do?

SPEAKER_02 11:24

That's so great.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

My Vietnamese friends. Is that right? Yale's Vietnamese. Oh, Vietnamese. But he's the all the same.

SPEAKER_07 11:35

New Zealanders, Australian. Yale's an expert on everything. Aerospace engineer. Yeah, Yale.

SPEAKER_03 11:41

But but Mo Mo Hai. Listen. Mo Hai Bai. And then so D.

SPEAKER_05 11:54

Which means I love you now. What do I do?

SPEAKER_08 11:56

Very good.

SPEAKER_05 11:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 11:57

Thank you. Spider.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

Come back, guys. Mark, you grew up in Little Saigon. I did.

SPEAKER_02 12:04

I used to get my hair cut.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

You know a Vietnamese phrase.

SPEAKER_02 12:09

Depjai.

SPEAKER_05 12:10

Depjai? I mean it's handsome. You're handsome.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

Um I used to get my hair cut in this place, and I was the only um white guy who spoke English that they whose hair they cut. So I'd go in there and they'd put on this oldies but goodies music. And I knew I was the only person because I'd go in there and they would change the music. Culturally since the day of the music.

SPEAKER_05 12:30

But listen to how he knew that it was only for him.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

So I would go in there and they would put on this oldies but goodies cassette tape. And then when I would leave, I would I would write down what song was going on and what line was going on. So when I'd come back, they would put it right back in and it would pick up or left off.

SPEAKER_05 12:47

The song would pick up the next time.

Rejecting Two Extremes

SPEAKER_02 12:49

They said you bring your friends.

SPEAKER_05 12:51

Oh, that's oh, that's great, man.

SPEAKER_02 12:53

Did you bring your friends? I don't have any friends.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

All right, Frey.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

All right, Frey. Today we're talking about the war on masculinity 2.0. Because we have touched on the subject before. Why men feel useless today?

SPEAKER_07 13:11

We should do this in black tank tops.

SPEAKER_05 13:14

Ooh, muscle shirts. That's it.

SPEAKER_07 13:16

Muscle shirts.

SPEAKER_05 13:17

Muscle shirts. Remember that guy, Ray, in uh uh was it Hollywood? In fact, we have a picture of him here. Yes, Mr.

SPEAKER_07 13:24

World, 1982.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 13:26

Yeah, his his biceps were the same size as my head, and I've got a big head. Did he threaten you, Ray? No, no, he's very nice. He was nice, wasn't he? Yeah, he was very nice.

Christlikeness Over Cultural Scripts

SPEAKER_01 13:34

I'm excited about this. I think that there's there's kind of a war on masculinity, and it's on two fronts. Uh the first front is probably the one that we're most poised to talk about today, which is that modern culture often frames all forms of masculinity as toxic. If you try to talk about masculinity today, there are places where immediately to try to be a man, to try to be masculine, that's oppressive. Matter of fact, I looked it up. The American Psychological Association now officially calls traditional masculinity harmful. So, to your point, and kind of the title, the result is that men unknowingly, with this God-ordained assignment of being men, they feel confused, ashamed, afraid to express basic God-given masculine traits. And this leaves them stuck, disconnected from the calling that God has on them. But there's also another form that is an attack on masculinity. It's what I would call the romanizing of masculinity, the hyper-individualistic masculinity. This is the John Wayne, pick yourself up, buy your bootstraps. This is also a toxic distortion. It's strength without compassion, it's independence without community, it's leadership without sacrifices. Both of these extremes. We need to reject both of these extremes. We need to reject both of these extremes. Biblical masculinity is neither passive nor performative. It is shaped by Christ. And first and foremost, the foundation of biblical masculinity is knowing Christ. You cannot, men listen to this. You cannot become biblically masculine without first becoming a godly man. Masculinity is not primarily primarily about personality traits or cultural scripts. It's about Christ-likeness. And the starting line for biblical masculinity is surrendering your life to Jesus.

SPEAKER_07 15:59

And thank you for joining us on the Living Waters Podcast. I spent ages preparing for this, and you just ripped everything I've got out of here.

SPEAKER_05 16:08

Yeah, say something, Ray, about masculinity.

SPEAKER_07 16:11

John Wayne. Yeah, it's not just an airport, but he was the epinemedy of masculinity, the Hollywood version, where he would uh uh never weep. Weak men, weak men apologize, you know, uh slap a woman around was just the Hollywood version, and so uh and the antithesis to what masculinity is. Masculinity isn't muscle, it's character. That true biblical masculinity. But the trouble is that we tend to be impressed by muscle. If a guy comes and he's in six foot nine and he's got muscles like railway lines, you and I'd be impressed. You know, that's ooh, look at him. But God doesn't look on the outward appearance as we see when um with David was chosen above the sons of Jesse.

Myths, Tears, And Strength Of Character

SPEAKER_05 17:30

I love how God, you know, uh gives us so much clarity in scripture on things. In the last episode, I remember we were talking about the exclusivity of Christ. And I I meant to say and I forgot to say, but I'm so glad that like we have those passages where like Jesus said, I am the way, the truth, and the life, and no man comes to the Father by me. We have the passage in Acts, you know, there's no name given under heaven by which we must be saved. It's like clarity, clarity, you know. And and I think that you know, a big problem is that there's there's no clarity. What do you mean? I don't have an idea. I'm trying to think I'll figure out right now.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

It was very nebulous. Can we straighten out what it is?

SPEAKER_05 18:15

Um and and so anyway, but but to be able to have clarity on things, I I just I love the fact that when we when we look at certain passages in scripture, we can see that the myths of our day are dispelled. Real men don't cry. Jesus wept, like end of end of discussion, right? In fact, this morning at the gym, because I'm when I'm at the gym, I'm listening to scriptures, I'm doing my basketball drills, and I was uh I was in Ezekiel, and and he was talking about how he he cried before the Lord, you know, cried aloud before the Lord and cried out, and and you just see that, you know, Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, you know, right? Um, and so we have all these misnomers, but it's like we're allowing again the world's authority to be the thing that defines us versus the word, and then that pendulum swings, you know, it's either that toxic David was kind of known for crying.

SPEAKER_02 19:15

You know what I mean? I mean, we we talked about the book A Tell Three Kings by Gene Edwards. Yeah, you know, and uh it's this fictitious story where Did you end up reading that? Yeah, I did such a great book, right? Uh fictitious story.

SPEAKER_07 19:26

It's great to give someone who's in the middle of a church split.

SPEAKER_01 19:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 19:30

Did I give it to you for that?

SPEAKER_01 19:31

Uh no, but what's funny is that Brian read it after the church split, and then you guys recommended it. So I just recently read it. Yeah, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

So it gives the the idea of the story, right? Or this journalist, he's kind of like going door to door and he goes up to one of David's mighty men and he says, Tell us about David. What was David like? You know, you know, you must have been this powerhouse of a of a of a guy, right? He says, Well, if you're into guys crying all the time, and that was one of the things that that he pointed out, that he was a man that was continually uh weeping. Um C.T. Studd, I I'm interrupting you though, and I don't mean to do so.

SPEAKER_05 20:05

No, I mean I was gonna say that, like you know, with David, I love that example that we're given, how God did certain things too. Like, you know, you see God doing something unique with, for example, uh the one who's not the firstborn. You know, you see him doing something unique with the barren woman, you know, and and and honoring her and blessing her. And then you see what he does does with David. Like God is he's getting something across to us. Like his ways aren't our ways. And so, yeah, by man's conventions, we would expect one of his older, bigger, you know, brothers, but God chose David, he did it for a reason.

SPEAKER_01 20:40

Samson is an anomaly. Most of the time, God's chosen men to be used as vessels for his grace are the poets, the criers, the smallest of the family, the second born, on and on it goes. Gideon, Ray Gideon comfort.

SPEAKER_05 20:58

Yeah. Um, but so someone was about to say something. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 21:01

I was gonna read something by C.T. Studd, right? Yeah, but before I do so, let me preface it with this. Um, you know, our culture is given kind of a mixed message to men, right? You're toxic and you're not stepping up.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

Right, good point, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:15

It's like you're toxic, we don't have anything to do with you. And why aren't you stepping up? Why aren't you doing something about it? It's not making sense, and the world is being confused, and I think that that's creeping into the church, right? And we are we've kind of lost our voice. Yeah, CT Studd. I'm gonna summarize uh something that he had said, but it's it's so powerful.

SPEAKER_07 21:33

He is a famous cricket player that gave up everything to serve the Lord.

SPEAKER_02 21:36

Oh, sir, I didn't I didn't know. You didn't know that? Nationally known. Wow. Um, he said, Who wants a chocolate soldier? They are chocolate Christians, they dissolve in water and they melt at the smell of fire. Sweeties they are, bonbons, lollipops, living their lives on a glass-covered dish or in a cardboard box, each clad in his soft clothing, a little frilled white paper to preserve his delicate constitution. Here are some who would go to the rescue of imperiled souls, but they fear the cold or the heat or the hardship or the danger. It's not for me. You see, the chocolate Christian runs from duty, he shrinks from sacrifice, he melts before the fire and he evaporates before the battle. And he licks his own hand. Wow. To Hades with all of them. Wow. Is that what he ends with? No, I thought I'd end up with that remark. But I I I'll say. You guys the complete thing really good. So so powerful. C.T. Stud, the chocolate soldier.

Leadership, Feminism, And Lost Purpose

SPEAKER_04 22:41

Wow. Yeah. That guy. That guy was a huh? I never heard of that person before. This is my first time ever hearing. Cuddle. C. T. stud. Yeah, slut. Yeah, that guy was a stud.

SPEAKER_03 22:50

Yeah, he was tall. What, right?

SPEAKER_07 22:56

I can't remember what I was going to say. My stupidity.

SPEAKER_01 22:59

I think I just figured out why in all of these other countries we're so highly ranked is because language barrier, they don't realize how dumb we are.

SPEAKER_02 23:05

Isn't he the one that said a life? One life will soon be.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

I believe so.

SPEAKER_07 23:09

Yeah, he was married to Shirley McLean.

SPEAKER_05 23:12

Oh, John McLean's sister. Yeah. You know, guys, I I think that a big part of the problem in men really losing masculinity is that they're not being the leaders they were created to be. And I think I've shared this before, but basically the world just all of a sudden developed this taste that they don't like they don't like male lions with manes. Right? Let's shear those manes. Let's change, let's change their nature, basically, in order to kind of make them fit into our new, you know, feminist-driven box of the world, you know? Um, and and I think feminism has a lot to do with this. That toxic feminism that's risen up in our country that is blurring the lines between what I believe is absolutely beautiful, and that is the distinction between male and female. Right.

SPEAKER_07 24:10

They don't want to shave the uh male males um names, they want to put them in braids.

SPEAKER_05 24:15

Oh, with some little little butterfly clips. Yeah, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_07 24:20

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 24:21

So it's nothing like seeing a lion roar to put the fear of God in your heart.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

Oh man.

SPEAKER_07 24:26

Just incredible.

Raising Men Through Discipleship

SPEAKER_05 24:27

Yeah. It's funny. I'm remembering these memes that were sent that had lions with all these different hairdos. Remember that? I think I said to Jason. Right years ago. So funny. Uh, but but no, but that's the thing, like leadership. That's one of that's a big hallmark of masculinity. And and talking about the you know, the attack on masculinity, it's that it's that men are made to feel as though they're being usurpers or they're being abusers or they're being dictators because they want to fulfill the role that they were given, and that is to be leaders. You know, and so today, sadly, what we end up with is uh, you know, 30-year-old boys that that are living in basements and not thinking about marriage and not pursuing career, to be providers and not entering the marketplace to lead an industry or to enter politics, to lead government.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

So, how do we reclaim that biblical manhood where there is courage and there's sacrifice, uh, there's a desire to work hard, there's a desire to follow Christ. How do we raise up those men? Yeah, we talk about it, we're saying they're not there. So, what do we do to raise up people that are coming to us? Uh, maybe they are 30 years old, right? Or maybe they're they're 18, they're living home, but they're coming to us and they're saying, All right, what do I do? I see what you're saying. Where do I go from here? Shouldn't that be the fruit of the spirit?

SPEAKER_05 25:51

Yeah, for sure. I mean, it part of it is is obviously the ultimate answer to that, I would say, and I'm sure you guys have more to say on that, but I would say it's the gospel. Yeah. You know, the gospel transforms. It look, when I when I was when I was in high school at the end of my sophomore year, I had a 0.32 grade point average. I don't even think that's possible. Four Fs, two D minus, right? The the D minus, the D minuses were in P E and drama. Um there's no way you got a D minus. I know. I think it was illegal. That was what they did. It was they did it so that I don't have to re it's a pass, so I didn't have to repeat their class the next year and ruin their lives again. The PE teacher is like, I've never given anything lower than drama. So anyway, but man, when I got saved, when Christ invaded my life, all I wanted to do was glorify him. That became my passion. So I went from a 0.32 to a 4.0, my first semester back into my original high school. Like, what can do that? Yeah, but but an awakening through Christ, you know.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

I I it reminded me when I was in seventh grade, uh, I took a sewing class, and guys just it was me and all these girls, but we we we didn't have any money.

SPEAKER_07 27:03

Why did you do that?

SPEAKER_02 27:04

Because we didn't have any money. Say it again. A sewing class. And so we didn't have any money. So I was so I was sewing, I was making clothes. I was making um some shorts for my brothers, yeah. And so I won an award at the end of the year. I won an award for this. So I would I would come early, I'd stay late, I'd stay after class, and I was sewing um items, and then I found out my teacher went up to me and said, You're gonna win an award in front of the whole school for sewing. And I was so embarrassed.

SPEAKER_01 27:34

Were you?

SPEAKER_02 27:35

I was so embarrassed.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Magnus Walker, dude.

SPEAKER_02 27:37

And I so I ended up so I they they called my name and I went off to the bathroom and they just kept calling my name because she saw me, she knew that I was there, and then I just reluctantly went up there and I got my award and I went back down.

SPEAKER_01 27:50

But this is also, I think this is actually an example of toxic masculinity. Like Magnus Walker, he's a fashion designer, he knows how to sew, he's a Porsche collector, he was this really cool factory. He's not a Christian, but like you look at him and you see a man. And what like being a fashion designer and a sewer has nothing that doesn't take anything away from the other masculine traits that he has. This is a great example of the version of masculinity.

Four Dimensions Of Manhood

SPEAKER_02 28:17

I wasn't it was in seventh grade. Oh, it was in junior high. Yeah, okay. I sowed, I sowed for 10 years.

SPEAKER_03 28:23

Ray was a sower. Now he sowed the seat. Now he sows the seed of the gospel.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

You you brought up a great question, or you brought up a great question. You answered it, you commented on it, you um confessed your sins. Uh let me just go back to it because I think it's really important. First and foremost, absolutely it the gospel, as I said before, to be a godly man, it starts with being the kind of man that can bow his knee to Christ as Lord and Savior. Absolutely. There's also the application of the gospel that it's so important, so important uh to bearing out the fruits of the spirit. And listen, these men, there's a lot of men in the church that are desperate for father figure leaders. And they turn to podcasters. And let me just tell you, there is there is no substitute to daily discipleship. What men, young men need today, more than anything else, isn't another book, is not another after they read uh find like a banana biblical battle for personal purity. It's not another book, it's not another podcast, it's not another YouTube video. What they need is men inviting them into their homes so that they can see what it's like to love and serve and speak tenderly to a wife, so that they can see what it's like to sacrifice and express incarnational love towards children, so they can see what it's like to manage a home well. What men need is other men coming alongside and bearing their souls to them in everyday life. That's what men need to bear out the fruits of the soul.

SPEAKER_07 30:01

You provoked a thought on me, isn't that why some young men uh join the military? Yeah, disciplinarily because they've just been their whole life has been slack and they just want some sort of sense of purpose and direction, and that's what they get in the military. Someone telling them what to do and giving them boundaries and discipline because they can't discipline themselves.

SPEAKER_05 30:19

Right. You know, on a recent podcast we talked about Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson and and others, influencers that are attracting young men. And I think that we need to recognize that men need to get hyper-proactive in this arena. We talked about kind of starting at the ground level and and catching it early so that later on issues don't happen. But I I would say the same thing, you know, at a father. So I think a part of the answer too is to the men of the church, like disciple your children, like you're saying, Oscar. Disciple your own children and model for them what it means to be a man. You know, I I I delight in special moments, and I I do it, you know, I do I do it sparingly, but I do it with intentionality at the right moments. Where I I delight in telling my children when they're around, do you guys understand how much I love your mother? And and just to even just give Rachel a hug and a kiss in front of them as I say that, like because I want to drive that home to them that they need to cherish their wives. So I I model it for them, you know. Stuff like that is huge.

SPEAKER_07 31:32

Do you ever say, I didn't choose you, I chose my wife. Ooh, I choose to love her.

SPEAKER_02 31:40

Does Rachel do that back? Is that kind of her natural?

SPEAKER_05 31:44

Oh, never. That'd be lying. Ever. No, she does. I mean, she does in the sense that uh, you know, she will she'll make compliments to me in front of the kids.

SPEAKER_02 31:53

And really, he brushed his teeth today, kids.

SPEAKER_07 31:56

This year. So let me just say something here on this because it's you've you've ushered the way into it. I don't believe this, and I may be wrong, there's nothing more manly for a man to do than honor a woman.

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Amen.

Gleaning From Imperfect Heroes

SPEAKER_07 32:07

To show her honor. And it's one thing that's so missing, but you see it in old black and white movies where a woman will walk into a room and every man would stand. Yeah, just stand. No, yeah, how do you explain that? They were just saying, We honor you, we respect you. And I love, and I wish that hats would come back in because I love the way in old movies the man would just touch his hat when he met a woman, and it was saying, I honor you, I respect you, and that's so often missing. That's because the woman that's just come into the room has got purple hair and a mustache.

SPEAKER_02 32:39

I remember watching a video of this uh interviewer out on the street and was going up to guys at night in um uh in in Texas, and he was asking the question to different men what would it, what is it, what needs to happen in order for you to have a one-night stand? And you were getting comments like, Well, she needs to be breathing. I just need to get three beers in me. I need to he had all these different comments, and then he came across this one guy, and this guy said, Perish the thought. I'm saving myself for marriage. Let's go. And it was just like, and the and the video, and the video ends right there. And I was just like, Was it a Christian video? No, it wasn't a Christian video, it was just this guy that did interviews. I don't know why I didn't follow look on because that's such a strong point to end like that.

SPEAKER_07 33:21

It was really great.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Yeah, let's go. Yeah, it was so great.

SPEAKER_05 33:25

Yeah, you know, I I love what what David said to Solomon as he's commissioning him. He said, Be strong. This is first Kings 2, 2 to 3. Be strong, be strong. How long have we been doing this, man, with verses? Be strong, therefore, and prove yourself a man and keep the charge of the Lord your God. I I love the the tie-in. Be strong, prove yourself a man, and keep the charge of the Lord your God. I mean, that at the end of the day is what it comes down to, keeping the charge of God. And in that charge, as you look at his word, you have direction for manhood, you know?

SPEAKER_07 34:03

Yeah, it's it I I was gonna bring that up. The King James version of what you just said is quit yourselves like men, which is absolutely meaningless to anybody, quit yourselves like men. But actually means um act like a man, be brave, be strong, stand firm, show your courage, stand your ground, be steadfast, mature, face danger or responsibly brave more bravely. And it appears, oh, listen to Charles Spurgeon. The Christian man, it seems to me, is the noblest style of man, the freest, bravest, most heroic, and most fearless of men. If he is what he should be, he is, in the best sense of the word, a man all over, from the crown of his head to the sole of his feet. Oh he's actually saying hairy chest. That's what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_02 34:48

Six foot six with a hairy chest. You know, you read that passage, I'll give you another passage, same thing, same thought. 1 Corinthians 16, 13 in the amplified version. Be on guard, stand firm in your faith in God, respecting his precepts and keeping your doctrine sound. Act like mature men and be courageous, be strong. And I and I picture this as like Jesus, right? When he goes into the temple and he overturns the tables, that he's a man's man. He's overturning these tables, and nobody's questioning his manhood.

What Women Actually Value

SPEAKER_07 35:19

Did you read my notes? Of course I did. You dirty red. I mean, I don't have it as well. Oh, Mark. I just think I say the same thing. My thunder just gets stolen. Oscar first. Yeah, it I just love old movies where they see Jesus clearing the temple, like it's coming up, it's coming up. He's just gonna turn those tables. And yet there's a whole stack of guys that could have said, hang on, there's 40 of us and one of him. Let's just stop this. But no, because he was so authorit in what he did. And also when the Pharisees had come to him and say, We've got a question, and Jesus said, I'll ask you one question. And they just forgot about their question because of a strength of character.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Love that. We're talking about being men. And earlier there's a call to action there for older men to be disciplers of younger men, to open up your home, your heart uh to those men. And I'll tell you right now, if that feels uncomfortable to you, they're probably yearning for it. Uh, I took a uh three three different times, took three different young men from my church out, all in their early to mid-20s. And then they came out to coffee uh over the span of a couple of months, and then they came up to me recently and was like, hey, can we do a Bible study with you? And so now every seven Saturday morning we are meeting up, but I'm also being intentional about bringing them over to my home. And so the point is just making yourself available, the opportunity will come. But I also want to talk about four dimensions of biblical masculinity. I had this thought. My new favorite thing is on my Apple Watch. I have my little button to start voice recording because I have ideas in the shower. And so when I have an idea, I voice record myself the idea because then I don't forget it, right? So this on your Apple Watch? Yeah, yeah. You wear it this button. I wear it in the shower. If I have an idea, I can't write it down, so I just voice record the idea.

SPEAKER_05 37:07

Ray writes, you know, Ray writing in the shower, right? Ray writes the shower walls. You still writing on that wall?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Still on the wall. The latest book was written in the shower.

Battle For Purity And Resolve

SPEAKER_01 37:15

Probably. Uh, but here's the four dimensions of biblical masculinity that I came up with today. So, first is spiritual. We already kind of talked about this. Uh, the goal is not to be a manly man, but a godly man. Godliness shapes every other area of our masculinity. Spiritual leadership, something that you just talked about, begins with humility, repentance, dependence, and obedience. So, spiritual is the first of four. The second is physical. We need to steward our bodies well, not because they're trophies, but because they are temples. Our aim with our bodies is not to get women to impress people, to build identity and fitness. But our physical responsibility is also contextual. Not all of us have uh the same physical frame as the next person, but your aim should be a healthiness because uh we are not Gnostics, right? Like our body, our physical body is attached to our spiritual and emotional well-being. And if you let yourself go physically, your emotional and your spiritual are gonna be dragged down with it. So to be a man is to take care of yourself. Uh, third, emotional. Uh, many men, you just talked about this. Many men are stunted today, unable to process past experiences, they're struggling with health, they get angry too easily. Biblical, biblical masculinity includes emotional maturity, maturity, honesty, self-control, vulnerability, compassion. Uh, you talked about Jesus. He was whole, he wasn't detached, he wasn't reactive, he was fully human in his emotional well-being. And then finally, the fourth is social. God gives men a role in society and community to provide, protect, and proclaim the gospel. Provide we have a responsibility. We're not entitled, but we have a responsibility to provide, to protect, to sacrifice, not dominate people, and then of course to proclaim the gospel so that others could turn towards Christ. And that certainly, as we mentioned before, starts in our own homes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 39:32

Oh, it's so good, Oscar. Yeah, it's it's so important, you know, to recognize the the multi-dimensionality of manhood. And I think sometimes, you know, we can we can look at a specific man with specific a specific trait and take that and make that our model. You know, like when I was a kid, I'd watch these kung fu movies, and I just I wanted to be Bruce Lee, you know, I wanted to, I wanted to be Magnum P.I. when I watched that. I wanted to be, but but it's like you you have to understand that you to be a whole and well-balanced man, you have to look to the model that we have in scripture. And it's awesome to be able to glean from different men, you know, and and you know, to look at David, do I admire David? Yes and no. I mean, do I admire David and his courage, what he did with Goliath and how you know he he stood for for righteousness for? Yeah, but I don't admire his adultery. Right. You know, I and and that's the thing, like to be able to glean from different men, even though they're not perfect, but to be able to, you know, take those things away. Do I admire Peter? Yes and no. I admire you know, Peter's again, his boldness on the day of Pentecost when he stood, but I didn't admire his denial of Christ, but I could still glean and learn from Peter, you know? Right.

SPEAKER_07 40:49

Yes, there's a book that's come out called Idiotic Things People Did and I wrote that book. And it really is talking about what you're talking about, things you could admire in David, but there's some idiotic things he did. Same with Solomon and Saul and all those. But anyway, the thought is we're talking about manhood and men and how wonderful we are and what a good man is. We're not talking about women. I thought of the thought, which is a great thought to think of, is what do women admire in men? And I know many times I've turned a picture of this guy who's got a body like a dawn of great tiny little waist, huge muscles, and I show it to Sue and she says, Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 41:26

She doesn't admire muscle in a man like men. I look some guys walking steroids. I don't care. He just he's just got a beautiful build, but Sue just couldn't care less because a woman appreciates respect, love, and kindness. That's what they want.

SPEAKER_05 41:40

Proverbs 19 22. What is desired in a man is kindness. I love that verse. I I quoted it, I think, today to someone. But what is desired in a man is kindness, and kindness has at its root the the furtherance of the well-being of others.

Faithfulness Over Flash

SPEAKER_07 41:59

And the Bible actually speaks of the law of kindness, Proverbs 31, verse the law of kindness. It's a law, it's something that's unbending. And I love that someone once said that man was made, woman was made from man's rib under his heart, under his arm and close to his heart. Whereas that's where the wife should be. Wow. Wrapped in his arm and close to his heart.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

That reminds me of something that I read recently that was talking about how uh the idea of a detached father is not uh healthy for children, but rather to have a playful father, a father who gets down on his knees and wrestles around with the children, a father who can make himself the butt of his joke, like a father that can make his children laugh, how healthy and that and good it is. The the kind, gentle, playful father. And I think that there's some people out there that think fatherhood is this detached, masculine. You come over here, I'm gonna show you how to fix the car. Our our father should show us how to fix the car, but our father should also make us laugh and make us feel safe. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:03

When you became a Christian, you entered in, you were enlisted into the the Lord's army, right? God calls us into battle, he trains our hands for war. Psalm 144, verse 1 says, and I remember when I um was working a secular job at a restaurant, every single day without fail, I'm sure it happened, but without fail, I would read Proverbs 5, 6, and 7 in my car before I went into work. Because the women that were working at that restaurant were absolutely gorgeous. And I didn't know what was up the enemy's sleeve.

SPEAKER_07 43:38

And you used to be good looking too in those days. You had a great physique too, didn't you?

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Whom womp. So that there is a war that we are enlisted in, and this is not a war against people, right? Our battle is not against Mormons, our battle is not against Andrew Tate. I gotta counter whatever he's come up with today, right? We our our battle is against spiritual darkness and hosts and things of that nature, but we don't live our lives in such a way where we're wondering what the devil is up to, right? We want to live our lives in such a way where the devil's wondering what we're up to because we are on the offense, if you would. And this isn't trying to be some sort of motivational speech, but I just want you to recognize that there is a battle against your purity, there's a battle against your mind, there's a battle against your finances, uh, there is a battle. You are in a battle. When you woke up this morning being in the Lord's army, you need to gird yourself for war. And you think of A soldier does when a soldier wakes up in the morning in the U.S. Army, he does not get to decide what he wears that day. He doesn't get to decide how he's gonna comb his hair that day. He doesn't have a get to have a debate with the person in charge of him that day. No, he is given his orders and he goes. Well, that is the same way for you and I, right? That we are in the Lord's army. We have a war against sin and temptation and apathy and forces that destroy the family nuclear unit. Yeah. If we recognize that we get that 10,000 view, 10,000-foot view down upon what's really happening, then we will stop trying to make a name, you know, for ourselves, trying to stop always being right or recognized or regarded or rewarded, right? We we have a mindset that the Lord has permission to do whatever he wants, as he's the potter, I'm the clay. Let's go. And I trust and believe that you're gonna be with me. And as you command me, you're going to enable me inside that battle today.

Grace, Repentance, And Hope

SPEAKER_05 45:41

Amen. You know, um, the world has such an influence on us in terms of of how we act and what we do in life. One of my greatest desires is to be a man who truly, truly, like in the truest sense of the word, fears no man. No man. Scripture's clear. This this the fear of man is a snare. Right. I mean, if we really recognize how much we're controlled because of the fear of man, and that doesn't mean like, uh, tremble, but like it's just a concern of what they'll think of me, what they might say about me, how my how I might appear. You know, I I I we've all seen it. It's it become, I mentioned this term the other day, but it's almost become proverbial in that we've seen these scenarios in sitcoms and stuff where the cool kid is really smart and like he's acing and he's you know, he's gonna be highlighted as this really you know intelligent and like he gets nervous. Oh, the guys are gonna think, oh, I can't think of that logic. I don't want to seem to be too smart or that I'm you know, I'm this, you know, really scholastic person because then they'll think I'm you know I'm a nerd. Really? But but people are controlled by stuff like that, you know?

SPEAKER_07 46:53

Nerds become billionaires.

SPEAKER_05 46:55

Yeah, right. They're the ones that get the last laugh at the reunion 10 years later. But but here's one aspect I want to spend a little time on because I really think this is the greatest mark of masculinity, and that is faithfulness. Proverbs 20, verse 6. Most men will proclaim everyone his own goodness, but a faithful man who can find. Yeah. What are you doing, Ray? Who you point to?

SPEAKER_07 47:22

Yeah, he's a faithful man. Amen. He is uh just helping me so much. Uh for many years he's just helped me with so much. He's a aerospace engineer. He's now cameraman today, and he's always there on Saturdays to film uh witnessing encounters. So God bless you.

SPEAKER_05 47:39

Okay, so yeah, so I thought that was gonna go somewhere. No, so faithful, but guys, faithfulness. Ray snorted snort. No, I snorted part of the fallen creation.

SPEAKER_07 47:52

As soon as Adam Cindy snorted.

SPEAKER_05 47:55

Yeah. But faithfulness, you guys, how huge is faithfulness? I'll never forget. I I meet Rachel, we start to get to know each other. I was at Ray and Sue's house. Somehow I mentioned something about Ray's cassette tape, Comfort's Favorites. And I think we were talking about uh the keepers, that demon possession thing or other things or whatever. And uh, and you go, Oh, I'll I'll uh I oh we were on the phone, I think. And you said, Oh, I'll mail you that. I'll I'll mail you that tomorrow. And like it arrived like the the next day or the day after, which was evidence that he put it. And I remember going, Whoa, this is a faithful man. Yeah. I remember Rachel and I started started to get to know each other, and she said, Oh, I'll text you at noon, you know, or whatever on a given day. I remember noon, I look at my watch noon and my pager went pager so that's when he fell in love. I did. I'm like, on time. But faithfulness.

SPEAKER_07 48:52

Well, just think what Jesus is gonna say to us on that day. Well done, you good and successful servant. No, faithful servant. That's what we should be aiming to be utterly faithful.

SPEAKER_02 49:04

So, but now what happens to the person who says, I've been unfaithful? God's done with me? No, just repent and be faithful from now on.

Servant Leadership Like Jesus

SPEAKER_05 49:13

That's right. I love I love that scripture calls David a man after God's own heart, even after David had fallen.

SPEAKER_02 49:20

Even after he fall.

SPEAKER_05 49:21

Yeah. And so I'm I'm glad you brought that up, Mark, because there could be easy, you know, discouragement.

SPEAKER_02 49:25

Which is 100% of the people that are watching and listening. Yeah, it's all of us.

SPEAKER_05 49:28

It's all of us here at the table. Amen. All you guys have. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 49:31

Um perfection.

SPEAKER_05 49:34

Self-righteous ray self-righteous. Um, but but you know Ray hasn't sinned since the 60s, guys. Um, but you know, Peter, right? I mentioned it earlier, denied Christ. Not just that, but even after so we say, oh, well, that was, you know, before he received the Spirit or whatever. Oh, well, what about his hypocrisy? Galatians 2. Peter had to, Paul had to rebuke him in his face, being hypocritical about the gospel of all things, you know. But hey, God used him on the day of Pentecost. He still, you know, was was a a great pillar within the church. Um, you know, you can you can go down the line, but here's the thing, right? If you are unfaithful in righteousness, be faithful in repentance.

SPEAKER_02 50:23

Good. That's great.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

Because God has instituted uh a mechanism to maintain integrity once you've violated it, and that's called repentance.

SPEAKER_02 50:31

That's right. And by virtue of the fact that you're still alive, God's not done with you.

SPEAKER_05 50:35

Yeah. Yeah. And and let and let your let I love that saying, we've mentioned it before. Let your repentance be as notorious as your sin. Yeah, that's faithfulness. I blew it. Be faithful to confess your sin. Don't lighten it, don't make excuses for it. Confess it, forsake it, move forward.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

I love it. I love that we're we're we're rounding the corner on the gospel because we've we've placed in front of the young men that are listening to this podcast a lot of to-dos, you know, how to be a man. But listen, to to you will always, every single one of us are imperfect men. There's not a single person at this table that is truly a perfect biblical manly man, right? But the reality is that my hope isn't at in how good of a godly man I am. My hope is in the God man. The reality that he died on the cross for all of the moments in which I fall short of leading my wife, of loving my neighbor. That is that is, and again, that goes back to the beginning of all of this. Is it it starts to be a man? It starts with bowing your knee and surrendering your life to Christ and putting your hope in the finished work of the incarnated God, man, Jesus. Amen.

Daily Steps And Scripture

SPEAKER_05 51:54

Yeah, and look, remember what Jesus said of himself. He's he's gentle, he's humble, he's lowly of heart, you know. But we find rest for our souls in him when we take his yoke upon us. And I think another great hallmark of masculinity is servant-heartedness. I mean, right, we're called to emulate Christ. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus, Philippians 2, who being in the form of God, didn't consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant and coming in the likeness of man and being found in appearances of man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death. So it's that servanthood, God becoming servant to man and then giving his life for the infinitely ill deserving, like for his enemies. You know, that's that's love. And that's, you know, for a husband, that's what we're called to emulate. Love Christ, love your wife as Christ loved the church, and be willing to lay your life down for her, you know. And I think this is a major area where there are big problems, you know, because men are called to be the the head of their wives, we're called to be leaders, but we're not servants. We're not servants. We we look at certain things like that, they're beneath us. I'm the man here, I'm man, that's so displeasing to the Lord. You know, and so so that's key. So if you guys were to sum up true biblical masculinity in a few words and a sentence or a couple of sentences, um how would you how would you define that?

Honest Struggle And Spiritual War

SPEAKER_02 53:31

Well, I'll tell you where you go from there, right? And and that is you you get inside God's word and it's just day by day, it's moment by moment. You see something you emulate it. It's Lord, help me to help me to do that, to be that. I think that you can find value in any text in scripture. It doesn't matter what it is, right? Um, I've said, you know, you read the text that Judas he went and he hung himself, right? Over at the Valley Hinnan, and you, Lord, help help me to never get to that place where I feel suicidal, where I feel like my only way out from the commotion and the noise of this world is to take that plunge. Right. And then you you move on, you go, you move on to the next text. It's the next verse, the next thing. It's just one verse, one decision at a time. You know, we talked about on one of our latest podcasts about uh how do I get out of that doom scrolling? It's just I'm choosing not to do scroll right now. Or if you're going to scroll through, if you find that is your avenue of escape, I was talking to an apologist recently. I said, Man, you you have quite the following, you know, online. That's really neat. What do you do at night? Are you always studying? So no, man, at night I just I'm done. I I just watch YouTube videos. That's how I get away. But I set up a little timer. It's an outside timer. I start that timer, and when that timer, no matter where it's at, when that stops, I'm done. Wow. What one thing at a time. I think that's that's how you move forward, you know, is by just utilizing scripture and and um and heeding what you read. Ray, what do you say?

SPEAKER_07 55:03

Um, emulate Jesus. He's the epitome of masculinity in every area. Um, just want to share something in case people get the thought that we are godly men, we never make a mistake. This morning when I woke up, I felt as I'd been through about a dozen rounds with a professional boxer. Because all night I was just bombarded with just disgusting thoughts that just kept coming back again and again and again to a point where I was just crying out, God help me. God help me. So we'll have a battle with uh with the lusts of the flesh that are so there and the demonic forces that come against us. But um so pray for us and pray for our uh those that listen because we're all bombarded by these same things, but the blood of Christ is so close. This morning I just Lord, wash me clean. If we confess our sins, He's faithful and just to forgive us our sins and he cleans us from all unrighteousness. And what bothers me about being bombarded with these thoughts is that I didn't immediately, instantly reject them. That'd find a second in my heart where I'd just go, oh, what that that can't get in my mind. And so it's a spiritual battle, and we've we've got victory uh through the blood of Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 56:14

Amen. Yeah, and I and I would say too, and I want to hear what you have to say, Oscar, but I would just say too, like Mark, I love what you said, like what you're doing at work every day. And and that is preparing your heart before going in. And and you know, that's you know, to go back to to mentioning my book, you know, that's that's what it helps men to do. It's to to have a battle plan in these things, right? You mentioned, you know, these thoughts that bombard our minds. Like every every day now, as I just started going back to the gym again. Before I go in, I go through those six C's in my book, the six C's to succeed and the nope, not one peak even. I love my Lord, I love my lady, I love my lineage, I love his lambs, I love the lost. Before I go in, because I know there's gonna be temptation around me. So I I I want to honor the Lord. So, what's the name of the book again? Fight like a man, a bold biblical battle plan for personal purity. And where can you get it? LivingWaters.com. Livingwaters.com.com. Oscar.

SPEAKER_01 57:04

Yeah, I would just repeat something that I said earlier, which is the foundation to biblical masculinity is knowing Christ, knowing him as Lord and Savior, and then um becoming more like your Lord and Savior. I love uh uh GK Beale uh summarizes so much of the Old Testament by saying, We become like what we behold. In other words, what you look at, um, what you set your eyes to, your mind to, your heart to, you will become like that thing. It's in your nature to emulate the thing that you worship most, and you become like the thing you behold. So behold Christ and you will become like Christ.

Beholding Christ, Becoming Like Him

SPEAKER_05 57:48

Amen. Yeah, and and I'll I'll leave it on this note. Um, a true, true man is a churchman. Hey, a true man is a vibrant part of the local body of Christ. That is key. So maybe some of you men are listening out there and you you you hang out with some friends and you read the Bible here and there and you do Bible studies, and and I'm talking to genuine believers, but for some reason you've drifted from the local church. You got to repent because you're not truly being a man of God if you're not a man of the local church that we're all a part of, we're members of the body. And and the example to your children and your grandchildren and your wife and others is terrible. These words by Kevin DeYoung the man who attempts Christianity without the church shoots himself in the foot, his children in the leg, and his grandchildren in the heart. So let's be churchmen.

SPEAKER_07 58:45

Wow, amen.

SPEAKER_05 58:46

Amen.

unknown 58:47

Amen.

SPEAKER_07 58:47

Are you gonna go silly or are we going to be?

SPEAKER_05 58:50

Yeah, I will. All right, friends. He has no choice. Don't forget, fight like a man, a bull biblical battle for personal purity. Like, subscribe, sure, please. And don't forget podcast at livingwaters.com with your thoughts, objections, compliments, and gifts of llamas and alpacas. Thank you for joining us, friends.

SPEAKER_03 59:10

We'll see you again next time on the Living Waters podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.

SPEAKER_07 59:18

Where am I gonna put my alpaca?