The Living Waters Podcast
Enjoy the ride with this hilarious new Podcast as hosts (Ray Comfort, Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne, Mark Spence, and Oscar Navarro) and special guests explore the pressing questions of our day with sound theology and apologetics! We would love to hear from you. How has the podcast encouraged you? Are there any subjects you’d like the guys to cover or questions you’d like them to answer? Email us at Podcast@LivingWaters.com and you may hear your feedback and questions quoted on the next episode!
The Living Waters Podcast
Ep. 386 - The Collapse of Attention: Why Christians Can’t Focus Anymore
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Attention is quietly slipping away, and with it the ability to think deeply, pray sincerely, and live fully present before God. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar examine how distraction has become one of the defining struggles of our age, fueled by constant stimulation. The guys explain that what seems harmless often steals time from what matters most, especially in parenting, relationships, and spiritual life. With screens constantly demanding attention, moments once used for reflection and growth are replaced with noise and instant gratification. They warn that the loss of patience, silence, and boredom is not neutral but spiritually costly, dulling the soul and weakening devotion.
The guys discuss how boredom is actually crucial for spiritual health. Quiet moments create space for prayer, meditation, and genuine communion with God. Scripture shows a life of reflection, where believers are called to contemplate truth instead of rushing past it. Mark explains how even simple observations in nature can lead to deeper meditation, reminding listeners to slow down and notice what God has placed in front of them. The guys highlight that attention reveals love because what people focus on consistently shows what they value most. Distraction in God’s presence is not just a bad habit but a sign of misplaced priorities.
The conversation shifts to how modern technology impacts the mind. The guys discuss how relying on quick answers weakens critical thinking and shortens attention spans. This cultural change promotes efficiency over depth, training people to seek immediate solutions instead of engaging in meaningful thought. They point out that attention must be deliberately fought for because it does not come naturally in a world designed to fragment it. Removing distractions, building discipline, and establishing intentional routines help retrain both the mind and heart to focus on what truly matters.
Finally, the guys offer practical steps for reclaiming attention and cultivating a deeper spiritual life. They encourage setting aside sacred time each day for Scripture, prayer, and reflection, especially in the early moments of the morning. Silence should not be feared but embraced as a place where intimacy with God grows. Small habits, such as limiting phone use, journaling, and memorizing Scripture, can strengthen focus over time. The guys remind listeners that attention is like a muscle that must be trained and that godliness develops through consistent practice. A life anchored in God’s presence leads to a renewed ability to love Him with heart, soul, mind, and strength.
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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
Silence Boredom And Hearing God
SPEAKER_01And so I think it's really important that we, especially as Christians, that re we are able to redeem this idea of silence because that is where God speaks, right? So often I mean meditation, prayer, solitude, reading of God's word. All of those things take time. You don't sit down. Imagine this. Imagine you're trying to build a real imagine being a father, trying to build a relationship with her child. And they're like, all right, child, I'm gonna give you 15 minutes a day. Give me everything you got. Tell me everything you want me to tell you about yourself. But after those 15 minutes, get out of here. I'll see you next week. Or I'll see you tomorrow morning. Are you really spending time with that child in that same way? Like we do that with God. It's like, okay, God, I'm gonna give you three minutes this morning. That's gonna be my time in your word. And everything else, it's gonna be keep me really busy. I'm gonna stay distracted for you, from you. Boredom is such an important aspect because we give our brains to think. Not only do we give our brains to think, but we give our souls an opportunity to hear from God.
Sourdough Stories And Bread Joy
SPEAKER_03Ray Comfort shall not live by bread alone, but he sure lives by bread. What kind of bread? Sourdough. Sourdough.
SPEAKER_07I made a note here because I always want to give Rachel um just cheers. I'm just so proud of her.
SPEAKER_05I told her recently her value has gone up as a wife. She's baking bread. Did she make her own sourdough? Bro. You haven't brought us any sourdough?
SPEAKER_07What she did made me pleased I had a girl.
SPEAKER_05Oh Sue and I. What are you saying about men baking, huh? Ray?
SPEAKER_07No, no. This this was just wonderful. What she did. See, you guys don't realize I've been on a restricted diet for about four years where I eat. I can't eat wheat, which is everything. And so I've just had to be very disciplined because if I go off it, then you get a heartburn immediately and you and you get uh a lack of energy within an hour. You just feel like crying, you're so tired. It was horrible. And so I've been eating flax bread. You know what that tastes like? Flax. Flax. Flax. Yeah, it tastes like you've got two layers of thick rope and you put a lot of butter in between. And so Rachel made me about two, three weeks ago, try some sourdough, and I didn't lose my energy. And I can have egg on toast, I can have toast and jam and butter on it. So I just it's lifted my spirits.
SPEAKER_05So basically that's all she does now is bake bread for. He's going through it so quick. She is so enjoying doing that for you, Dad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Um, and uh it's it's so good. Has she done the I have a neighbor that takes the um there's like stuff that's left over, sourdough discard crumbs. And they make uh they make chocolate chip cookies out of it, and it's phenomenal.
SPEAKER_05Well, she wants to get in that, she wants to try to do like chocolate chip bread and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_07So I checked with chat to see what the story was, why I kept man energy, and it actually explained what's in the sourdough and how it's different. In fact, did I tell you uh Sue yawned, so I checked with chat to see why she yawned, and she said, using chat too much, but I checked with chat. Chat says, I'm not using it too much.
SPEAKER_05No, no, that's not the way it is. You know what's crazy though with sourdough? I had no, I mean, I don't know anything about food or cooking or anything. I just we know we just eat, that's all I do. But you know, there's a whole like there's there's the fermented you know, cultures or whatever, whatever it is. So this thing is like, I mean, the way Rachel talks, you have to feed it. Yeah, she got a scale, she's weighing it. Did she name it? Um that's what I'm saying. I was like, this thing's a pet. She mentioned during the night it walked from the kitchen through to the bedroom. Seriously, you know what it reminded me of because she's like, Yeah, and when I fade it, it grows. It's like the tamagi. Remember the blob, that that horror movie, The Blob?
SPEAKER_01That happened to my kids. It was growing. I always thought of it as a tamagachi you can eat. Do you remember those? The Tamagotchis? No. No, there was like those little keychains, and it was like a mini video game, and you would just like feed it, take it on a ball. Oh, yeah, yeah, of course. I remember those. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_07I remember the blob. Oh, the blob. Yeah, it reminded me of candy.
SPEAKER_05Sitting right here. But it just it's seriously fascinating how um how you tend to, and she told me I was we were talking last night, she said there are some people that have had, I don't know what they call it, the the thing, the fermented jive, whatever. I don't know. Brid. It's that fermented jive. But there has to be a name for it. Anyway, she said there are some that have had it like for a hundred years where it keeps starter. And you keep starter, okay. So you keep feeding it, and there's some that have been going for a hundred years.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I was talking to my sourdough bread this morning about what's going on.
SPEAKER_01Sourdough bread. Don't believe she's making sourdough. I'm gonna need you to proof it.
SPEAKER_05Please put your finger into the loaf.
SPEAKER_07Don't you take my loaf?
SPEAKER_05Seriously, I've become a bread delivery boy. That's all I do. Bread array.
SPEAKER_03Bread for him. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_05But man, what is it? Seriously, what is it about the satisfaction that comes from bread? Because there is, right? There's nothing like it. There is, yeah, it's it's crazy. Bread of life.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, every time I see a loaf of bread, my mind immediately goes to the Holocaust and what somebody would go through with excitement to be able to get that loaf. And that typically is the thing that we discard because it's served at a restaurant and we want to get to the good stuff. Wow. And we discard that.
SPEAKER_07So I never forget. Um, this is 40 years ago. I've probably forgotten. But I was in a in a bakery and I picked up a French loaf. You know a French loaf is about two to three feet. Yeah. Yeah. And I was standing there waiting to be served, and the person next to me goes, squeeze, squeeze, fresh, on my loaf with their hand. On your loaf? Yes, I was gonna go with a loaf on the head because it's- Wait a minute. Look who's talking. This is the guy that pokes his finger in the thing. Did you want that one? Yeah, no, would you want this one? Not that. Oh, gently obviously. Just squeeze it, and then I take it and it makes people smile. Taste your own medicine, yeah. But this person did squeeze my loaf, and it was just, I can't believe it.
SPEAKER_05You guys have like a favorite bread that you really just love? Anything. Uh sandwich down. Yeah, Rachel's sourdough bread. Yeah. Haven't gotten it yet though. I love war. I love bread when it's warm.
SPEAKER_02I like the uh the dark bread at uh Cheesecake Factory. Yeah, it's nice.
SPEAKER_05I knew Oscar was gonna roll this. Oscar hates uh chain restaurants.
SPEAKER_06I love bread with soup.
SPEAKER_07Oh, yeah, I love soup with soup. Yeah, it's just great. Uh you dunk it, you dunk it. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Pita bread's good, man.
SPEAKER_07You put butter on the bread before you dunk it. Oh stop.
SPEAKER_05You guys know that, like, have we talked about on the podcast that like for pretty much most of my life I called bread toast?
SPEAKER_02That's right. And you went into the grocery store asking what aisle the toast is.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, where's your toast at? Are you serious? Because remember, I grew up on pita bread. So we Arabs, we just so my parents would always call American bread toast. You take it home and you're like offended that it's not toasted.
SPEAKER_01What is it? No, but I thought just the regular bread was just toast. You uh so favorite bread actually, Hopper and Burr's a coffee shop in downtown Santa Ana, and they have a ricotta and jam. And so it's a sourdough bread toasted, then they do like an almond ricotta with whatever fresh jam of the season it is, and they homemake the jam, with then they do like the salt on top.
SPEAKER_05Oscar, why is it anytime you talk about food or coffee, it has to be bougie. It's just good.
SPEAKER_03Ricotta almond blah blah blah.
SPEAKER_05Like, dude, bread, coffee.
SPEAKER_07He's not a commoner. Yeah, that's right. He he's a Beverly Hills made. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
SPEAKER_02You know, I thought that I would never speak against Oscar and his food choices until I saw a video of him in the Philippines. That's horrible.
SPEAKER_07Don't even talk about that.
Philippines Trip And The Balut Test
SPEAKER_05Thanks for bringing that up, by the way, Mark, because that is something we need to touch on. You were in the Philippines, Oscar. Yeah. And I did uh thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01I got to go to Rock of what the who says that, Ray? Mark said it for.
SPEAKER_02No, you said it. You did the timer. I said no, you need to not do the timer, you need to do the Oh, that's what the seven minutes was for.
SPEAKER_01Shout out to Pastor Armand and all of the community at Rock of Refuge Church. They are some of the sweetest, kindest, most hospitable individuals I've ever met. I know that Pastor Armand was here yesterday. I'm so bummed I missed them. Um, but they just blessed me beyond belief when I was on the house. It was incredible.
SPEAKER_05Mark and I got to experience that.
SPEAKER_07It's just the culture, isn't it?
SPEAKER_05Mark, it's been nine years since we were there, man. I was shocked when it's been nine years since we were there. I've been four or five, you know, but Armand reminded nine years ago. Yeah. Yeah. We should go back. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01They did have me try balut.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, but for 28 days.
SPEAKER_01Dude, I can't believe that I saw you. You know what, bro? What? I mean, you have to be incarnational love, dude. Did you try it all? Did you eat that whole entire thing? Everything you're supposed to eat.
SPEAKER_07How did you hold that back? Hold it down. I wouldn't even say this because people love you and they won't love you if they know what you did.
SPEAKER_01The Filipinos will love me.
SPEAKER_05Yes. And that's all I need. Balut is not the worst thing you've eaten. I'm not going to talk about the worst thing that you even admitted it was regret eating. Yeah. We're not going to talk about that.
SPEAKER_07Yes. Oh, I was thinking that the horse egg wasn't, you know what?
SPEAKER_01It's different. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Balut the same as thousand-year egg.
SPEAKER_01Oh, no. Balut is just like a uh boiled duck egg, but the duck is like a week away from being hatched. Don't talk about it.
SPEAKER_05Whatever, Oscar. That's horrible. I had no respect for you. Now I have negative, negative respect for you.
Renovation Update And Small Wins
SPEAKER_07Speaking of that, the parking lot's finished. And I parked my car and I got out and I leapt for joy. I thought a leap three feet was about two inches.
SPEAKER_05Isn't it great?
SPEAKER_07Just wanted to leap three feet. We've been without a parking lot for six months.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, our ministry's been under renovation. And that all the- I see the light at the end of the tunnel. We're so close to finishing. It's been, yeah, months and months. But I got to be the first one to stick gum on the new parking lot. So why don't you even think about it? I'm going to hire a full-time monitor for the parking lot.
SPEAKER_07We've got one.
A Listener Message That Hits Home
SPEAKER_05Oh boy, yeah. All right, brillians. Time for a cool, classy comment. This is from Lucy Novotny from Canada. I hope I said that right. Nope. Sounds like Russian. Happy accident. I stumbled on this podcast and almost turned it off at first. But the banter and laughter kept me intrigued. And then the biblical teachings and values discussed in this podcast changed my life. Jesus crying. You guys, when someone says changed my life, I think the last podcast, it was a similar email as well. Changed my life.
SPEAKER_07Does that always make you cry?
SPEAKER_05It just moves me. Yeah, I was kind of in my office when I read it. I changed my life. I had so many thought-provoking moments while listening to this podcast, and now I'm invested weekly. Thank you for everything you're doing. I love this podcast now. And uh again, that is from Lucy Novotny from Canada. Lucy, thank you so much. Um, I I can't put into words how much that really blesses our stocks off.
SPEAKER_00You just did.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I did, didn't I?
SPEAKER_00I wonder if she lives in Qatar.
SPEAKER_06Oscar, stop it! Why would it why would you bring that up? Oscar, I don't know. I was just curious. Do you think we have any listeners uh in Qatar? I'm sure.
SPEAKER_05Number six Christian podcast in Qatar. Guys, that's a big deal. Well, out of four. I mean, four billion. I'd love to go there. Qatar is a it's a you know, obviously predominantly Muslim country, uh, but it's been in the news a lot. You know, we have a base there, and there's just all kinds of things. Thanks for listening, guys. Yeah, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_01Some of those guys might be the military guys on the base. Yeah, so absolutely serving.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, thank you guys, and may the Lord protect you and uh and uh grant you grace. And no! Wait, what are you guys doing? What kind of shenanigans?
SPEAKER_07Not touch my notes, so I'm now on completely different things. Something to do with the election. My notes. There we are. Back to podcast. He touched your nose? No, notes, notes, notes? Yeah, yeah.
Quick Resources And Announcements
SPEAKER_05All right, Franza. Wait, what must say? And now radical revolutionary My notes are messed up. My computer went saved. I had to send them to email, then I had to copy them, put them anyway.
SPEAKER_07Get them.
SPEAKER_05And now a radically revolutionary resource. This podcast has scientific facts in the Bible book. Why do I say book?
SPEAKER_07Because Ray, you produced a video that has millions of booklets, same name. And there's also a tract and there's a tattoo.
SPEAKER_05Did you write those?
SPEAKER_07Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Pride. Pride.
unknownPride.
SPEAKER_05What an old from between a rock and a hard place. I love how you look to the side, like, wait, what am I doing? All right, Brandon, don't forget scientific facts in the Bible. Yeah. Is that one word? You guys, you have to understand I'm still jet lagged from Australia.
SPEAKER_07No, you're jet lagged from Australians. I've told you it's not Australia. It's Australia. Ken Ham Cause then.
SPEAKER_05Um, Scientific Facts in the Bible book. Right. Did you anticipate this book would do so well?
SPEAKER_07No. Yes. No, I don't know what I'm supposed to say. Pride, probably. It's done really well. Yeah, it has. Over a million copies? I don't know. I don't think it's that. Why are some of the hundreds of thousands of copies?
SPEAKER_02Yes, 600,000 or something like that. But what we see that one in airports all the time. But we don't see a lot of the other books. What what makes a publisher push that into an airport?
SPEAKER_07If I could find out, I'd be thrilled.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, get it in the Amazon talk.
SPEAKER_07Do another version of it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05So, anyways, check it out, friends. It's a good one.
SPEAKER_07Don't forget Living Waters Scientific Facts That Are Not On the Bible. Oh, that's do it, right?
SPEAKER_05Don't forget the Living Waters mug, the Evidence Study Bible, and Living Waters TV.
SPEAKER_04All the way Living Waters.
Why Attention Is Collapsing
SPEAKER_05ChatCown. And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel. Tens of thousands of subscribers. Make it hundreds of billions for us. Please, thank you. All right, friends. Today, we're talking about the collapse of attention. Why Ray Comfort can't focus. What are we talking about today? Why Christians can't focus anymore. When I was thinking about that, I thought of Ray can't focus anymore. When have you ever been able to focus? Hurry up. Get done with it. I'm Toddy Hair up.
SPEAKER_07Get to the point. What's going on?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07It's the way I've been made. I can't help it.
SPEAKER_05Well. Do you enjoy not being able to focus right? I can focus. Really?
SPEAKER_07Yeah. On things I want to focus, like bread, sourdough, I can focus on that. That's all I can do. Scrambled egg on toast. Do you have any more left? You know that you're not supposed to speak to me when I'm eating cereal. No, this is hold on.
SPEAKER_05This is what's terrible. So last night, I'm getting ready to eat one of my favorite soups, lentil soup. Okay. And my sister made it for me, my sister Nadia. And you have to eat it with bread. So I go, Oh, Rachel, where's some bread? Done. Out of bread. Why? Nadie is because she's making it for Ray Cup Bert. You're taking the bread off my table, Ray. Literally.
SPEAKER_07I didn't know there was such a thing as modern lentil soup. I thought it was just something out of the Bible. You can actually lent it.
SPEAKER_05Hustled as a birthright. Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_07So what is it? It's got lent in it.
SPEAKER_05That's glorious. We had one of the best. Yeah, we did. No, no, not that stuff. I'm talking Lebanese lentils. Yeah, shards, and it's more than. I don't even know what a shard is.
SPEAKER_01What's lent? You take a piece of glass and you put it in your soup. What Oscar were you gonna say? I was gonna say about the sourdough, were you sour about it? Very did you need some? Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_05You know what, Oscar? You you're like you're like leaven.
SPEAKER_06Oh. We need to get rid of you. Ooh, you like that? You like that? Yeah. All right. Um I haven't thought about it yet. I lost it. I lost my focus.
SPEAKER_07Oh, why can't you focus? Jet lag. Easy. That's not Jet Leg. It's just you. It's just getting it's aging.
SPEAKER_05It might be four or five hours of sleep a night. Forty, five hours.
SPEAKER_02How do you fit it in?
SPEAKER_05I wish. Yeah. So yeah, guys, attention. Uh it it really, it really is an issue. Yes. In our in our in our day and age. I think more than anything, we hear about it with what's happening in the school system here in the United States of America. But what's crazy is now it's like in most schools, every child is given an iPad. Like my daughter, uh Julia, teaches at a Christian school, and all the kids like have a special, you know, pad that they're given. And so you got technology, you've got entertainment, you've got the flesh, desires. I mean, so many things that that contribute. But there's a danger. We we joke about it, we laugh about it, you know, we're doing that now. We can be light about it, but there is a seriousness in in losing focus.
SPEAKER_02Um Do you like the idea or do not like the idea when you see a kid with an iPad at a church or in a restaurant?
SPEAKER_06Disneyland. At Disneyland. While on a ride.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I I I hate it. Honestly, I I in fact I detest it. Yeah. Because you think about well, a couple of things. First of all, the time that is taken away from nurturing that child's heart and mind because they're just sitting there zoning in on the screen. But also the content of what's being typed to a lot of. Because you know a lot of these kids' parents aren't using any sort of filters, you know. And how many stories you hear of kids, 95% of 11-year-olds will have looked at pornography. 95, this is I verified the statistic. It's it's I know. I did the same thing.
SPEAKER_02You're basically saying 100%.
SPEAKER_05Pretty much. 95% of 11-year-olds will have looked at pornography.
SPEAKER_02Wait, in the in the US, around the world. In the US. Boys, girls, all together.
SPEAKER_05Yes.
SPEAKER_0211-year-olds. Wow. All genders. All 1100 genders.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna say, wait a minute. So yeah, so uh I I I'm I'm really concerned. And um yeah, there's so much happening, the rewiring of the brain, the you know, the death to meditation and careful thinking. And yeah, so I'd love to hear your guys' thoughts. You can't hear my thoughts. You can't hear my thoughts. I've got to say that before I even get crazy.
Progress Patience And Quiet Prayer
SPEAKER_07Um, I think progress is backfired. We were just talking about it before, you with you know super watches and um Apple watches and lawsuit. Hey, you just want to go back to simpli simplicity in a lot of things. And I I think it's backfired in that there was a time when um travel needed patience because you're sitting on the back of a horse. I mean it's a long time ago. And now we sit in uh car that hands free, it goes as fast as we want, and all that's happened is we get road rage. It hasn't helped our patience whatsoever. It's it's made it worse. And uh I would like to go back to a quiet time. I do have quiet times. Actually, you know, I get up at night to pray, and it's no big deal because you've got night shift workers do it all the time. But that's my getting away from it all. Just absolute silence for about 30, 40 minutes. And you know my key to getting up at night to pray? I forgot to mention it. An alarm? No, no, no. Yeah, it's yeah, it's a weak bladder. But I wake up around midnight, one o'clock, but it's a huge blanket. That's my key. It's just massive and it's all soft and covered. Well, every blanket for you is massive yourself. Like, I I go like a burrito, I go downstairs, jump, I just wrap it around me, and it's just like I'm still in bed, but I'm now praying. It's just been a key for many years. Wow. But that's my c that's my getting away from the pressures of life because I feel stressed a lot. Whenever I work, I feel stressed. I'm going through a lot of stuff going through my mind. The way I get rid of it, you guys go to the gym, I just go to an exercise bike and ride like a maniac. Have you been doing that? Yeah, I've been doing it for years. And also I go on my electric bike and ride like a maniac. That gets rid of my stress in about 10 minutes.
SPEAKER_05You press the accelerator like a maniac?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I just push it really hard, 25 miles an hour. But it does. So seriously, physical uh exertion on your body can get rid of stress. Oh, seriously.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. No, I think that oftentimes with like people that that are dealing with with suicidal tendencies. I know it goes deeper than that, but but I do ask, like, have you have you tried like to get active, you know, to move your body? Like, there's something about the release of those endorphins, you know, that changes things. I want to go back to your blanket.
SPEAKER_01What's it like using a hand towel?
SPEAKER_05Washcloth, Oscar.
SPEAKER_01Come on. That's funny. So I wrap myself in a hand towel.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, anyway, back to where I was before I got distracted by the blanket. Um, patience is no longer a virtue. Remember that's can you finish this? Patience is a virtue, possess it while you can. Ever heard that? How does it go?
SPEAKER_00Oh, I've heard you possess it while you can.
SPEAKER_07No, it goes further. Patience is a virtue, possess it while you can, often found in women, seldom found in man. And it's true, when you watch, I watch people drive, and someone's a slow driver, it's usually a woman if she's cautious. Sue's incredibly cautious. She'll look to see if a truck's coming. Stupid things like that. You know, and I'm I'm slightly impetuous and I say, when are we going to move here? I'm getting spider webs over me. And and she's just cautious and it's good, it's safe. But we've lost the patience when it particularly particularly when it comes to driving and many other things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I can't remember who it was and said it, but someone said that entertainment is the death of the soul. And a lot of people, a lot of neuroscientists have come out recently and recognize the importance of boredom, which is interesting because we are petrified of boredom. The second you feel bored, you feel inefficient, you feel anxious, you feel uncertain, like the big questions of life begin to creep into your mind. We fill our moments of boredom with scrolling and distraction and whatever we can to keep the neurons and synapses firing off in our brains, right? And it's actually one of the reasons why so many people have their. Best ideas in the shower is because your brain finally has a moment to breathe. Because in the shower, you're bored. You don't have a screen to distract you. And so I think it's really important that we, especially as Christians, that re we are able to redeem this idea of silence because that is where God speaks, right? So often, I mean, meditation, prayer, solitude, reading of God's word, all of those things take time. You don't sit down, imagine this. Imagine you're trying to build a relationship, imagine being a father, trying to build a relationship with her child. And they're like, all right, child, I'm gonna give you 15 minutes a day. Give me everything you got. Tell me everything you want me to tell you about yourself. But after those 15 minutes, get out of here. I'll see you next week. Or I'll see you tomorrow morning. Are you really spending time with that child in that same way? Like we do that with God. It's like, okay, God, I'm gonna give you three minutes this morning. That's gonna be my time in your word. And everything else, it's gonna be keep me really busy. I'm gonna stay distracted for you, from you. Boredom is such an important aspect because we give our brains to think. Not only do we give our brains to think, but we give our souls an opportunity to hear from God.
SPEAKER_07You know, I've got a prayer closet that I go to every morning. It's always just me, nobody else. That's my shower.
SPEAKER_05I was gonna say, you're saying you can't do anything with the shower. Ray writes on a shower wall. You still do that?
SPEAKER_07Yeah, oh absolutely it's got writing on it today.
SPEAKER_05So then what do you do? You take a picture of what you wrote?
SPEAKER_07No, no, I I just I memorize it.
SPEAKER_05I mean when you have thoughts and yeah, I have thoughts.
SPEAKER_07I've got a pencil that's stuck on the wall, and I just put it off as soon as I get a thought, write it up. And I was writing up this morning. And it's always a mess on the wall. But I and sometimes I go and take a picture of it so I can get it, but it usually stays in my mind because I've written it. Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And is it a special uh pencil?
SPEAKER_07It's just an ordinary pencil, ordinary pencil, but I just gotta have the wall dry um to write. If it gets wet, it annoys me.
SPEAKER_02Wow You don't take a shower in the shower because it there's water in the shower.
SPEAKER_07And I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why I get ideas in the shower. You mentioned you're alone, which is good. Um, but there's hot water hitting you on the back of the neck and making you feel relaxed.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_07And um you guys feel good after a shower?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I feel regenerated. I feel like it's the endorphins, right? From the hot water.
SPEAKER_02I could do like three showers a day if I I love it. I love it. I have uh Velcro dots inside my shower that I attach, laminated gospel, the law, uh quotes, things that I like. So when I go in there, I just switch them out and put them in there.
SPEAKER_00I just have some Legos and a rubber ducky. I figured, Oscar.
SPEAKER_05That's why you want to do three thirty showers a day. Um, yeah, you know, when when we think of scripture and the norm for the believer, you know, I often think about like when when Isaac was out in the field. It says you know when Rebecca was coming, right, with with uh the servant, and it says he was out in the field meditating. I mean, man, like when people think meditation, they immediately go to oh, you must be some mystical, you know, eastern. So but but that is that's the the tone and tenor of scripture. You look at the Psalms and how often it talks about meditating, you know?
SPEAKER_08That's right.
SPEAKER_05Mark, what's the value of meditation?
SPEAKER_02Well, it it's the the idea is ponder by talking to yourself, right? We but we take it past that and we we meditate on the Lord. You will by and I'm sure it could happen, but by and large, you will not find me inside the car just driving along listening to music. Nothing wrong with music, obviously. But if I'm gonna go on a walk by myself, I'll maybe start off with a song, but I don't just continually listen to songs, even with the earbuds, right? I'll I'll take the earbuds out and just listen to the nature. Like this morning, we we have birdhouses all over our yard. I absolutely love it. And the birds were so loud this morning as the sun was coming up. I was like, I was just thinking to myself, wow, this is so beautiful. And then I have an app that'll tell me what birds are out there, and I'm recognizing the different birds. And I go right, so that that's a tohe, uh, that's a finch, a house finch. And uh, we have these owls that uh come at our house and they they perch up inside of a tree right above us. And just being able to ponder and meditate. Do you get owls by your house, right? No, I couldn't give a hoot about owls. Yeah. Pausing and meditating and being slow, slow to speak and quick to listen. Psalm 1, verse 2, his delight is in the law of the Lord, and on his law, he meditates day and night. It doesn't say a glance, it doesn't say uh quickly go through. It's to meditate and to meditate through every aspect, perhaps every word in the midst of the verse, and just meditate through through life. Jonathan Edwards was huge on meditating through the environment and everything that was going on. David Brainerd was not, right? And Jonathan Edwards did not understand David Brainerd's inability to enjoy sunrises and sunsets and the birds and things that he looked at it like kind of like commotion.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_02But sometimes God will slow us down so that we can enjoy what God has given us.
SPEAKER_07You're asking what meditation is easy, and not gave a great answer. Um you're gonna give a better one? No, well, I I I don't know if I mentioned this before because I keep forgetting that I've got short-term memory loss. Um What'd you say? I keep forgetting that I've got short-term memory loss. Did you have to say that before? Yeah, I did. Didn't I? Um that meditating, when I when I feed my dog, I cannot believe how quickly she, like every other dog, swallows. They just don't have any taste in their mouth. Right. Everything's in the stomach. Get it down, get it down, get it down quick before someone steals it now. And it's just crazy. And I I was eating uh lamb chops this morning, really tender, and I thought, I'll go for Lucy a bit. Go on in a split second. I've been having lamb chops for breakfast for the last four three or four years.
SPEAKER_04I've been doing a semi-carnivore diet. Even though I eat bread and chocolate and candy and vegetables and fruits.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, I've I compromised. I've got a double standard. But yeah, for lunch and breakfast, I have lamb chops. And my and my muscle has come back. Uh not not very impressively. Why can't we tell? Why can't we tell? Put that magnifying glass down. But I remember your daughter, Julia, I was telling her that when I when I was, I probably told this before, when I was a teenager, I'd be on the beach and I'd put my biceps on my knees as girls walk past because it enlarged the biceps. So I went to show what I did and nothing happened. There was no bicep there. This is about ten years ago, but the muscles come back because of the meat diet.
SPEAKER_08Wow.
SPEAKER_07But I don't know what oh yes. So we shouldn't be like a dog eating food because meditating means to chew it over. So when you get a verse, you chew it over, you taste it, and then you swallow it and let it become part of you to energize you during the day. That's what meditating should be like. Or like the cow.
SPEAKER_02What? Or chewing its cub. Yeah, and then it comes back up, meditates again. Yeah, that's disgusting.
SPEAKER_07And then it sends it down and makes milk, cheese, butter, and all other things, which is just a miracle of the cow.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, I have to say on that note.
SPEAKER_07The cow is proof of God's existence.
SPEAKER_05Just like what is a what is a care?
SPEAKER_07We have no idea what a couple of mock is cow. I cannot cannot speak properly. I've tried for 36 years.
SPEAKER_05Care, care. Okay, so this is a little side note, but related to what you said. I I honestly do not understand people who eat fast. Like, are you guys like that? I can't understand people that fuss. No, enjoy it, man. I prefer enjoying it, but I tend to eat fast. But why? Just not that's It's because you're around.
SPEAKER_02I mean, there's also people that really only have a quick break that have forced themselves to eat really fast. Like construction workers, you're on the bottom. That I understand.
SPEAKER_05Like you're limited on, but like when you some people that's not the issue. They're just like I'm like, no, man. Yeah, I was watching.
SPEAKER_07You spend 25 minutes on a piece of rice the other day easy. I just thought, what's he doing?
SPEAKER_05Remember the fork in the. I don't know if you guys did this when I was a kid. You remember those little um like juice uh little things? It looked like a milk gallon, but a small, tiny one. And you undo it, and then I would pour it into the cap and little sips, right?
SPEAKER_07I wanted it to last. What's Wayne's last name? My friend Wayne. Burrow Burrow. Yeah. Have you ever watched him eat a hamburger with a knife and fork? Oh, yeah. Everything.
SPEAKER_05You know, I brought Wayne from Australia. He he special ordered. I brought him imported chocolates from Australia. Yeah, I can't remember what you call it, but it's this uh crazy cherry thing or whatever. Cherry cordial? Cherry roots and a rice.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, it's really nice.
SPEAKER_05Anyway, I got him those. So I told him, I said, he I sent him and we said, How much? I said, you know, I said, it's a gift. The only thing I require is for you to send me you eating it with a fork and knife. And he did. He sent me a picture. Yeah.
SPEAKER_07Whole family mock him when you go because that for a book he takes knife and fork and he's a good one.
SPEAKER_01I eat my Skittles with a fork and a knife.
SPEAKER_07You think? Ticks the same way. Yeah.
Attention As Love Direction
SPEAKER_01I I do think another, I mean, as we talk about like our ability to pay attention, we actually do pay attention to things. We just usually don't pay attention to the right things. And I think it's valuable to reframe attention, which is this attention is love direction. What you pay attention to, you tend to love. And when we reframe it that way, we take it from a mental skill to a moral and spiritual act. Like I there's a somebody who once said the rarest and purest generosity is attention. So if you think about it, like if I'm having a conversation with my wife and I'm doing this the whole time, uh-huh. Uh-huh. Grabbing my phone and looking at it. How much, how much energy does she feel is being paid towards her? If I put my phone down, it might be a little bit more, right?
SPEAKER_07Why don't you use FaceTime off?
SPEAKER_01Sure. If I turn my phone upside down, it might make her feel a little bit better. But what if my phone was completely put away?
SPEAKER_07What is it? Smash it with a hammer in front of her.
SPEAKER_01Doesn't it make you feel loved and paid attention to when you're having a conversation with somebody that doesn't have their phone on you? In that same way, like when we talk about meditation and boredom, are we doing that with God? You know, are we are we having this kind of conversation with God? Uh-huh. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, I'm listening. You know what I mean? And so I think I think to reframe our brain to think is attention is love direction. What we pay attention to, we grow affection for. And now, now what is where is your mind's attention? Is it on scrolling, social media? Is it on work? Sometimes your attention could be on productivity and work. Where do you spend most of your attention? Because there you will find your true.
SPEAKER_07Is attention deficit syndrome legitimate? Or is it just part of the sculpture?
SPEAKER_05I had a friend of mine who supposedly had ADD, and I like the way he termed it. He said he called it attention to distracting details instead of attention deficit disorder. Attention to distracting details.
SPEAKER_07That fly just went past. I can't believe the details of that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Um yeah, you know, it's crazy. Spurgeon talks about how you know when we're distracted in God's presence, it's like being distracted by a fly in the presence of a king. You know, and and and it is like we're with the king of kings, and that happens to me. Like I'll be in prayer, and next thing I know, I'm like, oh, I gotta check this real quick. You know, hold on, Lord, you know, I'll be right back. But it's like, where where are our hearts? You know, how how much do we value the presence of the king? You know, I mean, I've been convicted. I mean, there's times when Rachel will be talking to me and I'll be and she'll she'll like just go quiet, and then I'll be like, Weren't you saying something?
SPEAKER_07It's just like we see a cartoon of some guy thinking I hope she's not gonna ask me a question after she's told us something.
SPEAKER_05Oh, yeah, and you're like and you're not paying attention.
SPEAKER_07It's like and so what do you think?
Reducing Screens Apple Watch Detox
SPEAKER_05Oh I think you're right. Well, that one yeah, we're canceling your uh your golf subscription, right? Uh so yeah, but Oscar, you know, I want to ask you about this because earlier you were talking about getting rid of your Apple Watch. So what what's behind that? I mean, is that something in your own personal life that you're just realizing on?
SPEAKER_01Um yeah, I mean, I think I've talked before like our our rules on screens in our home. So we have one TV uh that it's rarely on. We use it more like a, if you think about a board game, like if we're gonna turn the TV on, we do it together. We have a phone box, which when we get home, all of our boxes go into that all of our phones, all of our phones go into the boxes to keep us from distraction. But I've also noticed in the same way where I put my phone away, um, I'll get the buzz on my watch. And I've noticed that this is really not much different than this. And so just a personal conviction of I really want to spend um more time. God has been really teaching me about the importance of presence to be in this present moment, to not be thinking about what is or what has been, but to be here and right now. I think his call to consider the lilies is multifaceted. In one sense, it's moving this anxious mind from what's going to happen to what is in front of you right now, you know. And so I think a practice of presence is just trying to remove screens as much as I can. Obviously, you need them for work and practicality and stuff, but no, so I bought um a fitness band that is screenless, and so that I'll be it's in the mail now, it's coming my way. And so when that gets here, I'll be getting rid of my Apple Watch.
SPEAKER_07Yeah, is it coming out of the night? Is it coming quickly? I will.
SPEAKER_01You know what?
SPEAKER_05I want to talk about something else though, since you took brought up the Apple Watch, which let me just say Ray and I both had Apple Watches, and we both just don't use them. No. Because I found that distraction. Some people it's helpful, they're able to keep it under control, you know. But for me, it just was like a constant, you know, and I'm trying to I'm trying to pair back, you know. So that's just my thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I did buy it originally to get myself off the phone. Yeah, but then this has become like now it's like the next step of the way.
SPEAKER_05Well, and people don't know if you're if you're if you're like are in a hurry or what's going on, you know.
AI Shortcuts And Spiritual Bypassing
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um, so recently they've been talking about the concern, I think you brought it up earlier, maybe you easy, of college students and their distraction in college. And one of the big conversations they're having right now in college is the challenge of students not participating in critical thinking because of the use of AI. So basically they're saying like these college students, they're being more efficient, they're being more effective as they write these essays. But the problem is that as soon as they hit a roadblock in the past, when you hit a roadblock and you know what to do next and you're you're trying to come up with a solution, that takes time. But that's where critical thinking skills begin to develop. Where students now they hit a roadblock and they just chat right through the roadblock. They blow right past it. So they're getting the work done faster, they're being efficient, but they're not learning to critically think. And I think in many other ways, AI has become a substitute for the Holy Spirit. Because we use AI when when otherwise God wants us to think critically, be creative about a project, about a problem, about a letter we're writing, and we just dump it into AI. The problem is we go for solution rather than transformation. That moment of conflict, that boredom, it's not just good for critical thinking, it's also good for spiritual formation. The Holy Spirit is our helper and he means to shape us, bringing us towards that outcome. And we do spiritual bypassing when we substitute the Holy Spirit when we substitute the Holy Spirit for AI.
SPEAKER_07It's a brain exercise that you're kind of going around him.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_02You know, I was I was talking to Groc, AI, and I was asking about the consequences of utilizing AI quickly instead of trying to think through things. And it said that because of that, the very thing that you had mentioned, that the brains are devolving, that they're going backwards, and we are now beginning to see early stages of Alzheimer's because the brain is not being used by what you're supposed to. You know, as you get older, you see older people doing Sudoku and things of that nature. So I play chess, you know, quite a bit. And I like to do it because I want my brain to stay active in the midst of that. But it was an interesting confession, if you would, or admission, yeah, saying that uh we're seeing Alzheimer's in younger people because they're no longer using the brain. Somebody else is doing it.
SPEAKER_05So Mark, already we're seeing that?
SPEAKER_02I mean, AI. Just how long has it been around? Three years, four years? Two, three, four years. Yeah. Wow. Crazy.
unknownWow.
SPEAKER_08Wow. Wow. Wow. Yeah, it's also Ben Price is writing a book.
SPEAKER_07He sent me a cover and asked me to read it, and it was made me laugh as soon as I started reading it. Yeah. I said, This is great, Ben. Make sure you do this if we can help any way. Who is Ben Price? Ben Price is uh Australian comedian, Christian comedian who's clean, loves the Lord, and shares the gospel out.
SPEAKER_05Out on the streets every week, leaving. He's tall though, it's sad. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Australia's got talent. He was a finalist. Is that what I'm saying? Yes, he was a one of the finalists. Very, very, very um confident.
SPEAKER_01He does uh one-on-one witnessing out on the street. You can find him on social media, watch him. He's sneezing me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, we had a great time. I was really bummed because we did I did some open air uh in on the Sunshine Coast and he couldn't make it. He was gonna make it out. But that was awesome.
SPEAKER_07So, what's what's his uh handle on online?
SPEAKER_05Bought with a price? Yes, then price club.
SPEAKER_08Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah. No, but uh Australia was great. We did some open air on the coast, and within seconds, we had like 200 teenagers. They were out there partying, and you know, we started doing trivia and they just came.
SPEAKER_07Is that because it's not normal in Australia to do that? That's wonderful. Yeah, I think so. She just tempted me to go to Australia. Seriously, I mean it was like, what? Can we hold you? Yeah, but temptation is not sin.
Doomscrolling And Sermons In 2026
SPEAKER_05So anyway, um, guys, do you think do you think that's sometimes rarely my best? Um, do you guys think that uh we we have had an actual depletion of attention span because we live in this modern age? I mean, do you think it's like for you guys? Can you notice that you've changed in that? Oh no. You gotta fight for it, right?
SPEAKER_02The Doom Scroll. Never got caught catch it cut yourself in a doom scroll.
SPEAKER_07Oh yes, absolutely, you just can't stop. And they're gonna make uh shorts even shorter and shorter and shorter. So you've got five seconds for a short because you've got no long, because people are gonna get zoom on. It's really scary. It's changed, shorts have changed YouTube because the attention span. But I've got a question for you that I think is very thought short thought provoking. Do you think pastors who normally would preach for an hour because of the change in culture should cut back to 40 minutes because they want to hold the attention of the culture because it's changed. They're not compromising in content, but they've just seen the difference. Because I know I turn off after 40 minutes. Almost always happens with me. Um do you think they should change?
SPEAKER_05I I think if if it's not compromising content. I mean, I think if a pastor, if you're able to to get in the sufficient amount of truth to exposit a text properly, then shorter is better, I I I believe. Yeah, but I think sometimes uh that's not the motive, you know, and so or or really the approach.
SPEAKER_01So I agree. I and I think we already do this. I mean, the early church for the first 300 years would meet for hours. Hours.
SPEAKER_07Right.
SPEAKER_01And so we've already shortened it. To say to say to shorten it or change it and and somehow we're compromising is is to not realize you've already, by your own definition, compromised from how the church originally treated Sunday service.
SPEAKER_02So now we're not saying that it's wrong to have a 35-minute sermon, right? I mean, you're to your point, as long as you're getting through. I I'm a 30-minute sermon.
SPEAKER_05It's not wrong to have a 30-minute sermon. Because we have to remember too that what the church was doing, they weren't just sitting in a sermon the whole time. Yeah, you know, there was a lot going on. They include that time would include like the the love feast and you know things like that.
SPEAKER_07I I think it's important for a pastor to realize that his congregation has learned the skill of looking as though you're listening when you're not. And you've got, Mark, are you listening? And and so seriously, you've got to make sure you've got the attention of the people and you can feel it when you're preaching. If you lose it, you know you've lost it. So you just gotta uh be sensitive to that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, preach less verses. If it takes 30 minutes, you know, if if like oh these four verses are gonna take an hour, pick two of them. Yeah, part one, part two. You do I think there's there's an essence where we can embody um, we can let you know it's not incarnational, but it's a type of incarnational love to recognize that the culture needs something slightly different without, to your point, which is super important, without compromising on the fidelity of God's word. That's that's very important.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I mean, and and again, too, just as a note to to preachers, I mean, we're this is all applicable talking about focus and attention. You know, yeah, you there are times where you you adapt to the times, but at the same time, I think within a subculture, within a church, you can also create an appetite. Like when I go to churches that that are accustomed to hearing the word for 45 minutes to an hour, I can tell. I can just tell by the posture of the people. Yeah. And I can I can tell by I I mean, I spoke at a church in Australia and and one guy came up to me. He's like, You give us the word the way we get it every week. You know compromise. I was like, dude, these these guys are serious. It was our brother Andrew, uh, he he he uh pastors a church in Brisbane, exploding church. Like 700 people, which is huge for Australia. I mean, they they're they're running out of room, but he exposites the word. He's a master's guy, you know, and and so but but that exhortation was is an it was an encouragement. So you can you can you can allow your people to develop an appetite for the word if you're giving it. But But at the same time, make it interesting to where you you grab their attention, exposite with clarity, with power. I mean, I could have listened to Spurgeon for an hour and a half, two hours. Three hours, four hours. You can read him. Yeah. Could it?
SPEAKER_02We don't know what he could have, because we don't know what he sounds like.
SPEAKER_07Oh, we do.
SPEAKER_02We know what he sounds like. High pitch.
SPEAKER_06Yeah. Listen to the point, Spirit!
SPEAKER_01I want to go back to something that Mark said because I think it's really Mark spent. Thank you.
SPEAKER_05The prideful one?
Habits That Rebuild Focus And Prayer
SPEAKER_01Yep, the prideful one. Because I think it's really important, which is it's something you said attention is something you have to fight for. Yeah. And I think you're absolutely right. It is, it is a muscle that we need to build, and it will build over time. But it's important to recognize that God has designed our brains in such a way that we gravitate towards the easy. Or maybe that's a part of the fall. I don't know. But either way, we gravitate towards the easy. What I mean by that is like you do this with food. The reason why when you get hungry, it's so easy to go into your cupboard and grab a bag of chips. Yes. Is because that's easier than steaming broccoli. Right. And so what do you do when you want to eat healthy? You stop buying chips, right? You force, you either replace it with something healthy or you build a new habit. Um, or you eat it.
SPEAKER_07Chocolate-covered broccoli.
SPEAKER_01Or you eat chocolate-covered broccoli. But in the same way, like how can you start building your muscle memory? Or I'm sorry, how can you start building your attention memory and your ability to grow in your attentiveness? Is remove distractions. In the same way you got to get rid of the chips if you're trying to lose weight, remove distractions. Put your phone somewhere else. Don't make it easily accessible. Make it make bad habits hard to do. Yeah. That's a very powerful practice. Make bad habits hard to do. That's really good, Oscar.
SPEAKER_05I like that. Yeah, I want to give practical tips like that for those that are listening. Uh Spurgeon, he said this. He said, meditation and prayer are the rails upon which the locomotive of godliness runs. Say it again. Meditation and prayer are the rails upon which the locomotive of godliness runs. Nice. It's true. You know, you need rails, and and when those are in place, you know, and I think that that is probably a major barometer for whether or not we've lost our attention or focus. It's it's are we praying? You know, are we and and part of it is discipline, because I'll tell you, prayer is the hardest thing for me. It's the hardest thing for me to do. Uh reading, memorizing scripture, meditating, um, witnessing, whatever. Like, but prayer, like to get alone in a room and just just talk into the air to a God whose face I can't see, whose voice I can't hear, whose presence I can't feel. I mean, it's it's difficult. So, what did I do? I put in place accountability mechanisms. There's a brother and I who have been texting every day for the last year and a half. After we pray, we send each other prayer hands. That's cool. It has revolutionized my prayer life. Now, I've had a prayer life, you know, but but there's times if there's anything to go on a busy day, it's prayer. Now, if it's four in the morning and I haven't gone to sleep yet, I'm gonna pray before my head hits the pillow. I'm committed and it's it's transformed things. So it takes that discipline. But uh, we have to do it.
SPEAKER_07Right now, let me modernize Spurgeon's quote. Trusting God is like a hands-free Tesla.
SPEAKER_05Oh yeah. It's not like a locomotive. I trust Mark uh Teslas more than Mark trusts Teslas in terms of like when you go into Tesla, Mark, and you know you happen to be behind the wheel and it drives you, that makes you panic. I love it.
SPEAKER_07Do you really panic, Mark?
SPEAKER_02Oh, I I mean I don't know about yeah, I guess.
SPEAKER_07Well, every instinct in you says this is stupid. It doesn't make sense, doesn't it?
SPEAKER_05Mark, when you when you first drove our good friend's Tesla, you did that, right? You sat behind the wheel and and it drove you? It did. Were you nervous?
SPEAKER_02100%.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I was at first.
SPEAKER_02Because I've I've seen tons of videos on YouTube of Tesla automatic, full self-driving gone awry.
SPEAKER_01That's what I understand. How they have these Waymo taxis.
SPEAKER_05Have you been to one of those, Oscar?
SPEAKER_01I've seen them. I was up in LA preaching at a church. My wife and I went and grabbed coffee, uh, and we were driving in front of one of those driverless cars, and it like pulled over, and we walked, we we were like watching it with the city. I've seen them in Arizona.
SPEAKER_05I've seen them in Arizona, like driving next to it.
Be Still And Get Comfortable Quiet
SPEAKER_02It's like this is insanity. Yeah. I like to swerve in front of a Tesla because I know that it's going to get out of the way. Easy to get over, just start to move over. You know, Psalm 4610 says, Be still and know that I am God. You know, I I've heard that a commentary for years. A proper translation of that would be, uh, be still and let me show you that I'm God. You know, it's like I stand and see the salvation of the Lord. That takes, it takes patience, you know, in the midst of that. We we feel that silence is uncomfortable. And I remember Steve Mays when I was at Bible College, he said that he would drive along with Pastor Chuck, and he and they became comfortable in driving in just silence and not talking to each other. And it's not like one is sleeping, hopefully not the driver, but they are they're just comfortable in being still inside of each other's presence. So you don't need to fill that that air, those airwaves with your own radio waves, with your own noise. And we we we want to fill the air with noise, and it doesn't matter what it is at times, because we are so uncomfortable when it's quiet.
SPEAKER_07That's you go first, Oscar. No, please. It's epitomized by breaking news. You watch certain channels on television, breaking news every two or three minutes. Yeah. It's breaking, it's not really breaking news, but that's trying to build everything up to keep your attention.
SPEAKER_05Doesn't that get your attention when you're watching it? It does.
SPEAKER_07I really don't like how it gets me gets my attention, and I don't like it getting my attention because I know it's nothing at all. But um, I'd like to start a TV channel that says um stressed tune in to the old news channel where we couldn't care less about what's happening now. And here's breaking news before we look at it. Let's sing a hymn.
SPEAKER_05That's good. Isn't it crazy when you think about like again how the times have changed? Like when you watch a TV show from back in the day or a movie, like just the opening, man. Like I came across a some movie, an older one. I'm talking like a five-minute opening. Like oh no, there's like some of the bond over here.
SPEAKER_07And who's got overture before it in the middle of it? It just takes ages. It's just the different culture.
SPEAKER_05That shows me how much I change. It's like when I watch a show that I maybe watched when I was a kid, it drives me nuts now. It's just too slow.
SPEAKER_07But you know what it did when I was a kid? It made me think, this is big.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, this is important.
SPEAKER_07That we're not getting into I'm waiting in anticipation. Now I'm come on, I couldn't care who less the technical color guy is that did this.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I remember watching a cartoon recently of like something that little kids are super into, and I was watching it going, Am I on drugs? Like it was so overstimulating. I was it was uncomfortable to watch. I want to go back to something you said because I would like to again put the guy behind you. Um well, it's something that you remind me. You said something that reminded me of something else, something else someone said.
SPEAKER_08Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_01Which was me, which was me. Which not you pride? They said, uh, like true intimacy and friendship are those who you can sit with in silence and be comfortable. And I can't help but wonder, are we comfortable sitting in silence in the presence of God?
SPEAKER_02That's right. Wow. I I read this recently when the soul never reflects, it never rests. Right? We we this is why, and I've said it a million times, and I just I want because I want it to be caught from other people that when you go to get inside your car, don't just be quick to take off. You know, pause and just think through what went right inside the supermarket, what went wrong. Did did I do what I needed to do? And that was it, and just to pick up that gallon of milk, or was I faithful with placing tracks and engaging conversation? Same thing, leaving work, whatever it may be. As soon as you get inside that car, and typically always by yourself, just reflect, let the soul reflect what just happened. Because without that reflection, you're there's there's no growing and so when you go back to that store and whatever's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_07I'm thinking, I'm doing that right now about what you just said, meditate.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you know, Mark. Um man, if we really like took ourselves off of autopilot and considered the details of what we're doing or what we're about to do, like with prayer. The times that I have the sweetest prayer is when I pause and remember I'm in the presence of God. Like the creator of the universe is listening. Like that, and and I say this to myself often when I'm gonna go into prayer. There is no place more important that I could be right now, and no thing more important that I could be doing than to be in the presence of God praying. That's right. It's that FOMO, you know what I mean? That's why like my I do my best reading on an airplane because I I can't go outside and do anything, I can't go somewhere. I can't, I'm there, you know. But if it's like, wait, because we always want the best, we always want the most important. No place more important, no thing more important I could be doing.
SPEAKER_02Intentionally create a moment without noise. Right. So here's immediate homework for somebody who's listening to this. Yeah. When when Easy finally says, you know, where we have no idea what we're doing, when that when that when that hits the point. Pause, don't put on music, don't go do that that deed that you need to do. Pause for a moment and just listen. Listen to the environment, the birds, and everything, whatever it may be, and just kind of pause. What have you been meditating on lately? Strategically place that pause and don't allow it to escape.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And then listen to the next living water channel. And then listen to the next living water. Take inventory. Uh, I can you imagine it belongs to you. Take it. Can you imagine if every time you prayed there was this visible wormhole that opened up and you looked up and you saw the creator of all creation sitting on his throne, leaning in to listen to you like a father listens to his beloved child? How differently and how more often you would pray. And yet, for the Christian, that reality is truer than true. So, to your point, how often do we reflect on that reality before we begin talking with God?
SPEAKER_07I can't someone who experienced that.
SPEAKER_01You can?
SPEAKER_07Mm-hmm. Stephen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Oh, wow, right. That's right. He saw he saw Christ standing at the right hand of the Father, waiting to receive him. And uh, and and look at the look at what happened to the posture of his heart in prayer by the content that left his lips. Lord, do not charge them with this wrong. It's crazy.
SPEAKER_02I was listening to this podcast recently, and this guy asked the Christian, he said, if you can go back in time and you could talk to anybody, who would it be? And then he mentioned somebody, he mentioned like an author, somebody in the podcast host said, You really surprised me right now. Because I assumed that you were gonna say you'd go back in time and you would meet with Jesus and you would talk to Jesus. He's all I'm always talking with Jesus, I can do that right now.
SPEAKER_05And the guy was just taken back, you know, by that. Yeah, I hear from Jesus through his word. I talk to Jesus directly. Wow, it's so good. Yeah, and you know, I I just I just think we really need to recognize that we are gonna live shallow lives if we are Mark and Ray.
SPEAKER_07He yawned. I yawned while you were speaking, and I couldn't help it. I got no control over it. I needed oxygen, so I just let my brain do it.
SPEAKER_02And I try to put my finger inside of his mouth while he was yawning.
SPEAKER_07What's what I deal with? Yeah, just carry on.
SPEAKER_05Just carry on.
SPEAKER_07Carry on. That'd be distracting.
SPEAKER_02My wayward child just carry on.
SPEAKER_05Now I don't remember what I was even gonna say. You were just trying to listen to this podcast.
SPEAKER_07You didn't have enough tension. You won't get it.
Daily Bible Sacred Mornings And Discipline
SPEAKER_05Okay, so so guys, um, let me just read this by MacArthur, and then I want you to just throw ideas. I want to give our people something to walk away with. A shallow mind produces a shallow Christian life. The word of God must be deeply thought upon if it is to shape the soul. Agreed?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_07Here's what I would say is whatever you do, read the word daily without fail. It's uh uh and I've mentioned this before, and so many Christians are so predictable and saying, Do you read the word every day? I try to. It always comes. I say to you, try and eat your food. And it's always no, I don't. I because food is prioritized. Well, put the Bible before your belly, you'll never go wrong. And that's when you can claim the promises of Psalm 1.
SPEAKER_05Ray, nothing, I've never seen anything motivate people more or people get it more than when I share your illustration of if you were offered$10,000 every time you shared the gospel, what would that do to you? Everyone laughs immediately because they know that there's no question they would go. Like, and imagine that. Apply that to anything every time you pray, every time you meditate on the word, every time you read the word. But but that shows how how spiritually bereft we are of understanding what really matters. You know what I'm saying? Like if someone came up to me and said, Hey, I'm gonna give you$100,000, or I will commit to pray for you for two hours every single day. I mean, I tell I'll tell you what I want to do. Of course I want to grab the$100,000. But if I had spiritual understanding and this is a godly person and I know their prayer avails much, I'm a nut if I took the$100,000 over that. That's all I gotta say.
SPEAKER_07I'm trying to take both. No, I was trying to make a joke and I thought I can't because it's just so relevant what you're saying.
SPEAKER_05So, anyway, go guys. What do people do? How do how do they break out of this? How do we get focus? How do we get spiritual depth and attention again?
SPEAKER_07It's to care to care about it. To love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. And often think of that, that first and greatest commandment of all commandments, you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Why? Because you don't think without God giving you a brain, you don't breathe without giving you Him giving you lungs and oxygen, you don't love without Him giving you love to love other people. Everything came from God. The reason you blink is because God gave you that blinking ability. So this we owe him everything. And if you make that your focus, then everything else will fall into line. Seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and all these other things will be added.
SPEAKER_01Amen. Yeah, yeah. I would say practically your your first your first moments of your day should be sacred. And what I mean by that is that it should be spent in prayer and reading of God's word and meditation. Practically speaking, what that means is pick like okay, so for me, it's the first hour of my day from 5 to 6 a.m. is my sacred time. But I also get that, you know, uh a homeschooling mom with a six-month baby is not gonna get an hour. That's a privilege that I have because my kids are teenagers now. For you, maybe it's 10 minutes. If that's all you get, take it. And what that means, sacred for me, means I don't touch my phone. That's the next thing that I'm doing. I don't know if I told you guys, but I am um getting an analog clock. I don't want to use my phone as my alarm clock anymore. So I'm replacing my phone, it will no longer be on my side of the bed. I will have an analog clock that.
SPEAKER_07Where are you gonna get that from? From the interwebs. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01From weirdos.com. Um uh you probably don't want to Google that. Uh, but um, yeah, yeah. So sacred time, right? Time away from a screen, slow yourself down before your day starts. Sometimes you have to do that in the evening. For me, I have found it valuable to treat my first moments of every day as sacred time.
SPEAKER_07Never tell me not to Google something.
SPEAKER_05You know, I I would also um I would also recommend for those of you that don't read, to start reading. Yeah. Because reading helps you slow down, it triggers your imagination. Yeah, it brings you into a place of contemplation. I would also recommend journaling. I've been journaling every single day for years and years and years, and that helps me. It slows me down, it helps me think, process, you know, and also have the record to go back and think on my day and what it entails. Idiot.
SPEAKER_07As with comfort again today.
SPEAKER_02Let me comment on that because I came across a friend who is an avid reader, and I said, How long have you been like this? And he said, He goes, I haven't always been a reader. But you know what happened? I remember reading a book in fifth grade by Judy Bloom. And I loved the book. I remember that was fifth grade. And then he said, You know what I did? I went back and I read Judy Bloom again, and I enjoyed it all over again. And then I just started reading more difficult books, but I wasn't able to read what everybody was supposed to be reading at this stage and age of life. So I went back to fifth grade reading level and I just kept reading, and now I'm able to read and I love it.
SPEAKER_05Wow, that's so good. Yeah, and there are people that didn't have a habit of reading, they started it and then they caught the bug, you know, and it changed their lives. You're inputting, you're intaking information, but in a way that actually nourishes your brain and and helps you.
SPEAKER_01My wife and I, I think are we're very competitive. And I don't know, I we haven't articulated this to each other, but I think we're in a race for who's reading the most books this year. Because she keeps asking me, and then she's like one up on me, and then like I give a few up on her, and then it's it's passive, guess. I love it.
Scripture Charge And Closing
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and just remember scripture, right? Colossians 3, 2, set your mind on the things above where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God. Like you meditate on that, it'll transform you. Romans 12, 2, and don't be conformed to this world, be transformed by the renewing of your mind, right? Um, 1 Peter 1 13, wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober. We need to do that. There's girding up, there's a determination, there's discipline where we say it's not that I can't, it's that I won't. I haven't, and and I won't still, but I need to change, I need a disruption. And uh I have this Holy Spirit, I have the fruit of the spirit, which includes self-control. So it's not that I can't say I won't, and I need to start to and so do that today. All right, Franz. Wow, that went by quick. Don't forget scientific facts in the Bible book. Check out the video too. It's really nice. Don't forget to like, subscribe, share, and podcastlivingroboters.com with your thoughts and your questions and all that other good stuff. Thank you for joining us, Franz. We'll see you here next time on the Living Ludders podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.
