The Living Waters Podcast
Enjoy the ride with this hilarious new Podcast as hosts (Ray Comfort, Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne, Mark Spence, and Oscar Navarro) and special guests explore the pressing questions of our day with sound theology and apologetics! We would love to hear from you. How has the podcast encouraged you? Are there any subjects you’d like the guys to cover or questions you’d like them to answer? Email us at Podcast@LivingWaters.com and you may hear your feedback and questions quoted on the next episode!
The Living Waters Podcast
Ep. 389 - What Does It Mean to Be Loved by God?
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God’s love is often misunderstood, reduced to performance, feelings, or circumstances rather than rooted in the truth of the gospel. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar explore how a performance-based mindset distorts identity and causes believers to question whether they are truly loved by God. The guys explain that many people assume love must be earned, which leads to insecurity and a tendency to condemn others. When this thinking enters the church, it produces a culture in which identity is tied to what people do rather than to who they are in Christ. Scripture presents a radically different picture, showing that God’s love is not based on human effort but on His sovereign choice, demonstrated through the cross. When believers forget this, they begin to measure God’s love by their circumstances instead of by what Christ has accomplished.
The guys address the relationship between God’s love and His wrath, explaining that the two are not in conflict but deeply connected. The cross reveals both the seriousness of sin and the depth of God’s love, as Jesus bore the wrath that sinners deserved. God’s love is not sentimental or passive but holy and active, refusing to leave people in their sin. This understanding reshapes how believers view both justice and grace, giving them confidence in God’s character. The guys emphasize that when believers grasp this truth, they are freed from seeking others' approval and can rest securely in God’s love.
The conversation turns to how believers respond when they struggle to believe that God truly loves them. The guys stress the importance of returning to the cross repeatedly as the ultimate proof of God’s love. Feelings may fluctuate, but the finished work of Christ remains constant and unchanging. They highlight that believers are not only recipients of God’s inheritance but are themselves His treasured possession. This truth anchors identity and provides assurance that God’s love is secure even in moments of failure, doubt, or hardship.
Finally, the guys explain how understanding God’s love transforms daily living and relationships. God’s discipline is not a sign of rejection but an expression of love that shapes believers into Christlikeness. When believers truly grasp the depth of God’s love, they are freed to love others, even those who have wronged them. The gospel compels worship, humility, and forgiveness, changing how people respond to suffering and conflict. The guys remind listeners that God’s love is not fragile or conditional, and nothing can separate them from His love in any circumstance.
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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro
God Loves His Enemies
SPEAKER_02God does not love us because we are lovely, but because God loves and God is love, he chooses to love the unlovable. God demonstrated his love toward us and that while we were yet sinners, he died for us. We think that there's no greater love than this than one to lay down his life for his friends, but we were not his friend when he died for us. But yet he says the greatest love is to lay down your life for his friends, but laying down your life for your enemies, because that's what he did. While we were yet his enemies, he died for us. What is that love? That love does not make any sense within today's economy. I want to know this love that surpasses all understanding.
SPEAKER_00Ladies! What a great beginning.
A Movie That Broke Ray
SPEAKER_03The spirit has come and shut his mouth again. Ladies and gentlemen, you heard it first here on the Little Waters podcast. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, it is true. Ray Comfort has had a great awakening. Oh, yes. Ray Comfort saw a movie that stirred his soul.
SPEAKER_05Oh, nothing has ever stirred my soul like Great Awakening.
SPEAKER_03Is that hyperbole, right?
SPEAKER_05No, no, absolutely not hyperbole. It's justify it's not justified exaggeration, it's not exaggeration. I have raved about Ben Hear for years. Yeah, everyone knows that. It exceeds Ben Her. It just it broke my heart with emotion, made me bum eyes. At one point I was wearing a t-shirt under my shirt, but I was seriously gonna take my shirt off to cry into it because I was I wasn't. The pairing of wing clock? Well, no.
SPEAKER_03What happened was I thought, okay, well, you know, we'll get some snacks or something, which I'm glad we didn't on, you know, further thought. But I thought, oh, I'll bring a bunch of napkins because I know Ray's gonna cry. I had seen the movie before Ray had, so I took him to see it.
SPEAKER_00You knew he was gonna cry? You like 100 billion percent.
SPEAKER_03But what I did was I'm like, oh well, in case something happens, I'm gonna put two Kleenex, clean Kleenex in my pocket. So I had one. But then what'd you do with it, Comfort?
SPEAKER_05I can't. I lost it. It was dark in the movie theater. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But uh What a movie, friend. So we don't know exactly when this is being released. Obviously, we pre-record. Um, but if you haven't seen it, it's probably now out um probably for download, but you've you've gotta watch this. And what's it called? A Great Awakening. A Great Awakening about the life of um George Whitfield. Benjamin Franklin's in there too. Mark, you saw Oscar, you saw I haven't seen it yet. I haven't seen it yet.
SPEAKER_00But I will say I I happened to call Ray on his way home from the theater, and he tried to explain the movie to me and then started to weep again. So I I know this isn't hyperbole.
SPEAKER_05I couldn't talk to Sue every time I went to tell her about it. I'd this is an hour after it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Uh just that I've been lukewarm my whole life. No more.
SPEAKER_02No more will I be lukewarm. You know, I kept getting interrupted in the movie because I kept getting texts on an urgent matter from Ray Comfort. We needed the movie.
SPEAKER_03I'm like, just a moment, let me go outside. I have to say, you know, look, we all know, sadly, many or most Christian movies are extremely cheesy. Yeah. And if they're not cheesy all the way through, there's cheese somewhere. I couldn't find it in this movie. No, one. Honestly.
SPEAKER_05A mice, a mice, a mouse couldn't have found a piece of cheese.
SPEAKER_03The acting, the the score, the editing. I mean, the story, it was just yeah, it it has become my all-time favorite movie. It's weird to say that about a Christian movie, but it's true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it's true, it's based on a true story, obviously, and and it it applies to our lives personally and what we do.
SPEAKER_00So you're saying for you it dethroned your most recent favorite movie, which was the sisterhood of the Yahya Pants. Uh The Smurfs. Sister of the Yaya Pants.
SPEAKER_03Holy Oscar. All right, friends, check it out. It's made by sight and sound. They're the ones with the massive theater in Branson. I think they have one in somewhere else. Um phenomenal. Oh, yeah. It is, okay. Yeah, yeah. Fully Christian. The actor, the main guy's a Christian.
SPEAKER_05There's no theology that'll upset you. When you're watching a Christian movie, you've got to be born again, someone says anything, oh yeah, what's where's this gonna go? I know. And the whole thing was so well produced, I thought, how is it gonna end? How can I keep this this high bar that they've set? And they kept it right till the end.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I've saw it twice, Ray's seen it twice. I was gonna go the third time with you, Rachel, Julia, Kylie, and Mum.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I told Daniel, my son, about it. He went twice. Yeah, it's best to go the second time, save going the first.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'll go again. I mean, I want to see it. Yeah, let's go. Easy's sister was in the theater with us. Oh, that's right. My sister's Nadia was behind us to go to.
SPEAKER_02Oh, she'd be bowling, wouldn't she? Nadia and Nada. Oh, yeah. I don't know. She was behind me, and I was trying to watch the theater from trying to watch the theater and get the texts because trying to answer an email.
SPEAKER_05Well, the urines came through, I had to tell you.
Listener Letter That Hit Home
SPEAKER_03And my sister, after seeing it, said she's gonna go again. So anyway. All right, France, time for a cool classy comment. Hey, we got gifts along. I think, I think this gift is attached to the letter. But this is from Tyler Bepco. Hey, Franz, spelled that way. My name is Tyler Bepco. I'm currently a junior in high school living in Texas. I know you probably get this all the time, but I wanted to thank you for your ministry. Many groups and individuals can be popular and have influence on people. However, you guys have taken a step further than that. Impact. I was miraculously saved around two years ago, and ever since my conversion, even leading up to it, y'all have been a part of it. I often pray for sanctification. Sometimes I get disheartened by slow progress. However, you guys are direct a direct answer to prayer. The saying you become who you hang out with is completely true. Though I have not yet met any of you, you guys have impacted me in a way that seems like we have been lifelong friends. Every day on the way to school, I turn on the latest Living Waters podcast episode. When I do, I feel like I'm sitting in the studio with you. And I know I'm not the only person who feels that way. Often I will be thinking about a certain issue or topic, often being confused when God's sovereignty is displayed by you guys going over the exact same topic on the podcast. By God's grace and your faithfulness, I've grown as a believer in the last two years more than I would have without your ministry. Constantly evangelizing.
SPEAKER_05Some people cry about everything.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. I'm constantly evangelizing with my church by God's grace and have seen many hearts touched when using your strategies. I could go on and on about how much impact you have had on me and those around me, but I am running out of room. Haha. I pray that God will continue to use your faithfulness for the for the furtherance of his kingdom. Your brother in Christ, Tyler Bepco.
SPEAKER_05How mature of us then?
Workplace Evangelism Without Losing Trust
SPEAKER_03This is why we do what we do. Thank you, Tyler. And I think you sent this, Tyler. I'm not 100% sure. Sometimes things get mixed up, but isn't that cool? The line of land and the lamb. So if it was you, thank you. If not you, no thanks, but thank you to whoever gave it to us. That's a great picture. Yeah. All right, friends. Get ready for a new segment called Quality Questions. This one is for Mark Spence. This is from Siena Martin. You often talk about your time as a busser. That was my first job, by the way, at a restaurant, and how you were able to share the gossip and we went the gossip. Share the gossip. It says the gossip. I put it on. Share the gospel and be a witness. Dear co-worker. I'm not sure I shared a lot of gossip in your life. In your time there. We heard the gospel. You've also talked about how your boss really appreciated you. Uh but my question is: did you ever have a co coworker that distanced themselves from you because of it? I went a witness, but I'm really scared. They'll think I'm a freak. I love your advice.
SPEAKER_05Did it use the word cow or ca?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, boy, it was fun working inside the restaurant to some degree because you just work hard. I, you know, I was asked to be a manager, I turn it down, asked to be the uh uh one of the servers, I turn it down. I just really enjoyed busing and working behind the scenes and working hard. Could you define busing for overseas flights? You clean the tables. Really? Yeah, you clean the tables, you clean the toilets, you clean uh whatever needs to be cleaned.
SPEAKER_05So that's different from the server.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, the server's gonna be. Yeah, no, I did both sometimes, like when when they need to be cleaning. We will never eat there. Crazy. Right comfort is absolutely crazy.
SPEAKER_03Answer the question, Mark.
SPEAKER_02Um, I think that you should first off be the best employee there. Amen. I think that if you're getting paid to work, you work. There, your employer is not paying you to share the gospel. I mean, that's a sale on moment right there. We we need to work hard. So when do you share? Well, you share during your break, you share before, you share after. I met my wife at a restaurant that we both worked at, and I would come early to help out people in need, and I would stay late to help people that were transitioning now, coming onto the new shift. And so I came early, and my wife had really good shifts. She had seniority, and I would serve her. And the same thing would be with at this restaurant. So people would maybe not want to hear what I have to say, but they love the way I worked. And their tips were dependent upon me making them shine.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So it got to the place where I didn't really have, I didn't, I don't think I had any enemies inside the restaurant business. And I even bridged a gap between the kitchen and the rest of the wait staff because they were separate and you didn't interact with that. So my my boss really liked me. He wrote me an encouraging letter when I had left.
SPEAKER_03Donnie, I've shared it, I've shared it in a sermon. You've shared it on the bush. Yeah, that's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02So listen, work hard during your break, share the gospel, and share the gospel, and share the gospel, and share the gospel. And when they're posting signs saying, hey, there's a party over here, this has happened over there, post a track right there. If they're able to post that, you're able to post that. But you must be the best worker, and you're gonna earn the right to be able to share it inside people's lives.
SPEAKER_05So your wife had seen you already and you served, and what does that mean?
SPEAKER_02Um, well, that's a picture of the church as well, right? Uh so this but that's how I met my wife, and I married her, she became my ex-girlfriend. She became my girlfriend, then she was my ex-girlfriend, and now I see my ex-girlfriend every single day. It's true.
Resources For Sharing The Gospel
SPEAKER_03That's so crazy. I married my ex-fiance. Yeah. Um, Mark, what happened to your work ethic, by the way? All right, freed! Time for a podcast rankings. Shout out, number one Christian podcast in Rwanda. Did you guys watch that hotel? Oh, that hotel. I've seen a hotel. I visited a hotel. What a blessing, you guys. Praise God. Taking it all over the world. So shout out our brothers and sisters in Rwanda. And now a radically revolutionary resources broadcast is brought to you by the four question survey. Contents include two survey pads, 50 sheets each, a hundred million dollar bill, tracks, and 110 commandments, coins, and a thou shalt not steal pen. All right, this was a good one. Because look, if you're out there and you want to share the gospel and you're intimidated coming up to people, it gives you something in your hand and a reason to go up to them, right, Ray?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I'm really thrilled to hear about this because we forgot to promote it. It's a great resource, but we've never pushed it. What do you mean? I've looked at sitting in there. I thought we've never promoted that picture. Do you see my wisdom? This is why it's gray. I think it's wonderful. Now, would you stop moving your hands?
SPEAKER_02Ray is absolutely petrified that I'm gonna tickle him.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and really before we started, he jabbed you like Yeah, but that was paid him back. Or sometimes you're childish, man.
SPEAKER_03Wait, wait. Sometimes? Yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02But now he's like living in fear that I'm gonna do something and I'm not gonna do anything, I think.
Why God Loves The Unlovable
SPEAKER_03Sure, yeah. I think I am. Good. All right, make sure to check it out, friends. For question survey. Don't forget the Living Matters Mug, Lemon Study Bible, Living Matters TV, LivingWaters. Oh, wait. Oh Living Matters! And don't forget the podcast YouTube channel. Tens of thousands of subscribers join them. All right, guys. Time to jump in. Today we are talking about what does it mean to be loved by God? What's love got to do? Got to do with it. What's love but a second hand emotion? I can always count a mark as my backup singer.
SPEAKER_00We are now number 300 in Rwanda.
SPEAKER_02Pay us not to ever sing again.
SPEAKER_03It's putting on his gift cards.
SPEAKER_02I got my wallet. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You pull me out, Jeremy.
SPEAKER_00I just got an update. We are now number 300 in Rwanda. 300,000, I think.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, let me tell you guys, I'm I'm so excited to be talking about this topic. Um I grew up in in a culture that has what's called performance-based acceptance. So you do good, man, you are loved. You are hailed, you are celebrated. You blow it, you're the worst thing on the planet. It's a cultural thing, you know.
SPEAKER_05And was that bad for you?
SPEAKER_03I was always I was always hated, basically, is what it means. Um But when I when I came to know the Lord and I and I came to learn about his unconditional love, it just blew my mind. Can I ask a question? Is that culture different than American culture? I think it's more pronounced. I mean, it's ubiquitous, I would say. You know, you you see I've heard you use that word three days in a row now. Oh, ubiquitous. Ubiquitous. Isn't it quite a little bit? Isn't beautiful? It's a$10 word for sure. Yeah. I mean you would say ostensibly that I'm I'm just trying to show off. But we know better. Which I am.
SPEAKER_05What, Ray? On ubiquity.
SPEAKER_00I uh I think you are touching on something though, Ray, uh, which is you know, easy, easy coming from his culture, had experience that. But I do think that our culture, while not there yet, has shifted to more of a shame and honor culture. And so what you feel now, like the new tension, is that your identity, everything value about you is in what you do, not who you are. And so I do think that we're starting to head in a direction that EZ's very familiar with.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. And the thing is that sadly this has been transferred over into the church, not by what's said, but by the attitude that we see, I think, not just from the pulpit, but I think from believers between each other. You know, where there is just this lack of the reflecting of the love of God toward other people. And I think the reason for that is because we reflect what we believe about the Lord and our relationship with Him. You know, I mean it's really telling. You know, when someone is is condemning toward other people, I bet you if you look closely into their lives, they they believe God is condemning them. Even the Christian. Even the Christian. Yeah. And so, guys, I w I want to jump into this and and I I want to first of all talk about why God loves us.
SPEAKER_02Why does God love us? Reasons I think known only to him, locked up within his vault, because it doesn't make any sense, and it is the opposite of what we learned to your point here on earth. God does not love us because we are lovely, but because God loves and God is love, he chooses to love the unlovable. God demonstrated his love toward us, and that while we were yet sinners, he died for us. We think that there's no greater love than this than one to lay down his life for his friends, but we were not his friend when he died for us. But yet he says the greatest love is to lay down your life for his friends, but laying down your life for your enemies, because that's what he did. While we were yet his enemies, he died for us. What is that love? That love does not make any sense within today's economy. I want to know this love that surpasses all understanding.
The Cross Against Prosperity Thinking
SPEAKER_03When you became a a Christian, you talked you talk about how there was just this overflow that was happening in you. What what happened when it came to the love of God? Like, did it did it instantly hit you? Did it take time to grow in learning it? Like when you when you encountered Christ, how would you associate that with the love of God?
SPEAKER_05It instantly hit me, and then I grew in learning it. Oh, I suppose I don't know how to describe the love of God. Well, one thing I would say is it's very important for us as Christians not to think that God's love is dependent upon or God's love is evidenced by our prosperity.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that's good. Oh, exactly elaborate.
SPEAKER_05Well, you say to someone, how's it going? Oh, God's blessing me. This is what's happened. This is where these doors open. Me, me, bye, you know. And that's the me monster. But um if if God's blessing, if if prosperity is a sign of God's blessing in his favor, then God really favors the mafia. And Elon Musk is loved by God far more than he loves me. Um then we need to, if God's love is drawn out or evidenced by our prosperity and things going great, then we need to apologize to Job because God obviously didn't love him. Um and the Apostle Paul, who bore on his body the marks of the Lord Jesus, stripes on his back, and Stephen, who was stoned to death, and James, who was beheaded with a sword, and all the disciples that died, and all the martyrs down through history, they weren't loved by God because God didn't favor them. No, no, we look to the cross. Always look to the cross as evidence of God's love. Here in his love, not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be a propitiation for our sins. God commanded his love toward us, and that while we are sinners, Christ died. For God so loved the world. So that cross is evidence of his love. And so whether you're prospering or you're not prospering, you look to that cross and say, There's God's love, evidence for me.
SPEAKER_03That is why I hate the prosperity gospel. Man, it it it it destroys people's lives because there is that thought, I'm not healthy, I'm in sin, God is opposed to me. I'm not wealthy, I must be doing something wrong, I don't have enough faith, you know. It's it's so destructive in that it it overlooks everything that the cross meant.
SPEAKER_02So what so what do you do when you begin to doubt the love of God? Ray, do you have anything to say on that?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, A.W. Pink said, whenever you're tempted to doubt the love of God, thank you, Mark, Christian reader, go back to Calvary. Mark, that was wonderful. You said that was the Spirit of God moving. Yeah. Um if you're ever doubtful of God's love, just seriously, look to the cross and see what God did through Jesus, so we could have everlasting life.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. You know, I I just had this pop into my mind. I I never even thought about it that way. But in the Arab culture, there's a saying you'll often hear when something went really well for someone, they'll say, God loves me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. I never thought of it. Oh, there's even a movie in Hollywood, someone up there likes me or loves me. That's that's the title of a movie.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, God loves me. Yeah, and and it's such a misunderstanding of what the love of God is.
SPEAKER_05Now, um Another one easy is it's very, very popular, even among almost the secular world. God is good. Oh yeah. Just bandied out when things go well.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. When is God not good? Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_05Well, God's the best.
Wrath And Love Meet At Calvary
SPEAKER_03Good, better, bestest. Yeah, bestest. Yeah. So, Oscar, is there a contradiction between the love of God and the wrath of God? Not at all.
SPEAKER_00Um, not not in any way, shape, or form. Because actually, there's been quite a bit of theological work that shows that within the context of God's wrath, we actually have a greater understanding of the way in which he loved us. And so that might be a bit confusing. How could that be? Well, uh, again, going back to the cross is a primary example of this. Once you understand the severity of the wrath of God, and then you see Jesus as a propitiation for that wrath, that he would take on the fullness of the wrath of God for you, that then increases of your understanding of the way in which and the extent in which God has loved you. In addition to that, another thing is is like the the extent of the wrath of God is indicative upon the relationship in which he means to have with us. So a prime example is this, and I've heard us explain in this kind of a way. If somebody out there, you know, cuts you off and rolled down their window and offends you, it might bother you for 15, 30 seconds, but you're gonna be over it. If a friend or family member, or if a friend offends you, you're gonna be hurt by it. If if a loved one, if a parent, if someone who you're married to betrays you, man, that that betrayal runs deep, right? Why? Because the betrayal is indicative of the intimacy of the relationship that you have with that person. The wrath of God is indicative upon the intimacy that you are supposed to, that you're created to have, to be face to face with your creator. So the wrath of God is an indicative of the intended intimacy and indicative upon the way in which God loves us and that he receives the fullness of that wrath on the cross.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that that's not something you're gonna hear on most Sunday mornings in a typical church service in a secret sensitive church. Unless Oscar's preaching. Yeah, and everyone's snoring. We need to do your rounds off. Great secret sensitive churches. Yeah. Um, I love this quote by John MacArthur. He said, God's love is not that he accepts us as we are, but that he loves us despite what we are and is determined to make us what we ought to be. His love is not a sentimental affection that overlooks sin, but a holy love that will not leave us enslaved to it. He loves us too much to allow us to remain comfortable in rebellion. I mean, how good is that, right? Because that is that is the concept, right? The concept is why why is God keeping me from what I want and love and desire? You know? I mean, and that's that's the the line we've talked about so many times that the world quotes. It's one of the world's mantras. God wants me to be happy. So that trumps scripture, that trumps all that we know is right morally. That trumps Trump. Right? We we should do a podcast. Maybe our next week. How is that sound? Why do you guys bring the worst out of me? It's just it's so easy. So easy.
SPEAKER_02You should have the cup, the water bottle. You're revealing what's already. We should do a podcast on the dangers of spiritual formation. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03We could do that next. Yeah, that's a good idea, actually. Yeah, you know, let's do that as a next episode. All right. So um, so can I go back to something though?
Great Awakening And God’s Approval
SPEAKER_00Because I think there's a practical application to immediately apply. Earlier, uh, Mark answered a question that was sent in by a server or bus or something of that nature in regards to like, I'm afraid of being seen as a freak. So think about this. Think about the impact the love of God has upon our own hearts. If in your heart of hearts, here's what's the problem is the challenge is when you feel that way, ultimately what you're saying in your heart of hearts is in order for me to feel loved, safe, and accepted, I need this person to think positively of me. And so you're afraid to share the gospel. But any of us who have ever struggled with the approval of men will tell you that the approval of men and women are a moving target. It's constantly changing. You'll never have it. You'll constantly for the rest of your life exhaust yourself trying to earn the love of people that is infrequent and that they will ultimately abandon you or quickly lose from Hosanna to crucify him. Amen. That's a great, that's a great way of putting it. And yet think about the love of God, that he would fully know you and yet still fully love you. That all of the love, safety, and acceptance you actually seek is not in the approval of men, but in the way in which God approves of you through the work of Jesus on the cross. Through the gospel, you have all of the approval and all of the acceptance you will ever need. Not because of what you have done, but because of what God has done for you. And that is so confirming. There's security to have in that. Jonathan Edwards has this great metaphor where he's like, What is the thing that makes us special? He says, When men pick out gems from a heap of stone, it's because they find the gems particularly interesting. But he goes on and said, When God chooses us, he doesn't choose us because we are interesting. He chooses us, then we become a gem. What makes us special is that God has chosen to love us on the cross, not that he found us particularly lovable. And that love is the thing that can fortify us from the fear of man, from being insecure about what people will think of me. Like, who how could you be insecure once you realize what God has to say about his children, that he loves you, that he will never leave you or forsake you, that you are the apple of his eye, that out of all of creation, that everything he's ever made, that you are the thing that he adores most. Again, not because of what you've done, but because of what has been done for you.
SPEAKER_05What you've done has just provoked a thought about a movie I once saw. What's it called? It's called A Great Awakening. And it's it's one part that is really moving is you might need to jump in here because of my stuff. I can't talk and cry at the same time. But Whitfield uh wanted God's approval at one point, and he said, I'm gonna make God proud of me. And he locked himself in a room and stayed there for 40 days fasting. And the Wesley and the other guys in the in the holiness club banged on his door, pulled him out. He was very, very close to death, and he was seeking God's approval in his own works. And Wesley just got him. He says, You're you're you're being utterly foolish, you're dishonoring God. And he explained to him that uh God spoke to Jesus when he came up out of the water in water baptism and said, You're my beloved son. He said, Why did he say that? He hadn't done any miracles. And he just explained grace to him. It's Christ in him that's the hope of glory. And then you see him coming up out of the water, being baptized himself with the freedom that we have in Christ, that we're trusting alone in grace and not in the works of the law.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and it was powerful because in that scene, he said to him, What did he say to his son when he came out of the water? This is my beloved son. And he stopped there. Yeah. And he said, What else did he say? Yeah, and whom I'm beloved. And he said, You know the scriptures. Right. You know, you think of the different things.
SPEAKER_05Oh, could I just say something? Right in the middle of that, when he was, he he cried out to God, um, this something like this, this is not working. He just screamed out because he was doing what the way that seemed right to man and just ended in death.
SPEAKER_00I missed that whole scene because I ran out of popcorn.
SPEAKER_02I had to go out of the theater and answer a text. But you you provoked me for something I once heard, and that is you know, man collects valuables. They collect valuable stamps, valuable coins, valuable sports cards. But what does God collect? He collects dust, right? We're made out of dirt. That God has a dirt collection and all the things that we would throw away that we'd get rid of that we want to be uh done away with. If somebody's gonna come over to our house, we're gonna clean up the dirt. Dirt not allowed inside my house. And here's God saying, no, dirt is allowed because God has made that dirt valuable. It's just a it's a mind-boggling uh concept if you begin to think through that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, you know, you guys brought up the question earlier about how what does a Christian do when they're struggling to believe that God loves them. You know, it'd be it's almost like someone saying, Um, you know, I'm I'm having a hard time believing that Hitler was murderous. I just, I don't know. I just don't feel like Hitler was murderous. You know, I just don't, I don't know. How do you prove that Hitler is murderous? Because he murdered millions upon millions of people. So how do you, what do you do when you're struggling with the love of God? Again, what more did God need to do? And we got to put it in its context. What more did God need to do? The God of all glory, who dwells in unapproachable light, who's a consuming fire, whom heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain, what more did he need to do than to condense himself into a microscopic man in light of the scope of the universe that he spoke into existence and bare the mockery and the blasphemies and the brutality of his own creation to save his enemies? What what what like it's like Hitler says, uh, what more do you want me to do to prove to you I'm murderous, right?
SPEAKER_02Like it's it's crazy. People still doubt that Adolf Hitler not only that he killed the amount of people that he killed, but people even doubt that he even existed. Yeah I mean that is mind-boggling. So we look at we consider Jesus that not only did Jesus do the things that he did and he uh ransomed our lives, and scripture says, for the Lord, excuse me, you were ransomed not with perishable things such as silver and gold, but with the precious blood of Christ. But people doubt that Jesus even existed. That's mind-boggling. Uh, I think of Bart Ehrman, uh, the the historian, the secular historian, who said, Oh no, there's no doubt that he existed. We're just wondering what he actually said. Well, where are you gonna go for that text? Right. Right. So we need to go uh continually back to uh the word of God. Uh John Stott said, the essence of sin is man substituting himself for God, with the essence of salvation is God substituting himself for man, right? So while the essence. So Christ dies for us, and we begin to think through no, I must die for myself. I must continually pay my price. We are continually bombarded with the antithesis of what scripture says. We go to work, we earn a paycheck. Give me my money. That's my money. But then Christ comes along and it's the exact opposite of what we learn, right? We know that the wages of sin is death, but Christ comes along and he says, No, I want to give you a free gift. It doesn't compute inside of our heads. We it just doesn't make sense. He paid for that free gift. Yes.
SPEAKER_03The resurrection was the receipt. Right. You guys, in my mind, honestly, objectively speaking, the reason why the cross is validated more than anything, is it is because no human being, no fallen creature would ever conceive such a thing. That's true. I mean, we think people would, but of course not. Man wants to earn glory for himself. Man wants to pursue his own righteousness. It's so counterintuitive, it's it's so illogical and unreasonable that God would do that. And that's why you have religions like Islam who would say, No way, God would never do it. You have to pay for your own because you have to, yeah.
SPEAKER_05And even Mormonism. Yeah. And Jehovah's Witness.
You Are God’s Inheritance
SPEAKER_03It all runs down to establishing your own righteousness.
SPEAKER_00I really think we have an impoverished view of God's heart for us. And I think the theology of inheritance really helps here. We know uh intuitively and by reading the scriptures that we inherit the kingdom of God, more importantly, that we inherit God through the gospel. But you know the scriptures say that he inherits something too? What does God inherit through the gospel? Through the cross. The scriptures tell us that he inherits you, his children, that you are his inheritance. The reason why he goes to the cross is because he wants to call you sons and daughters. That's the thing that pulls him towards us. And I know I've shared this story before, but it's been a while. And if you guys will allow me, like I'd love to share my experience with my biological father because I really think that it's not the moth one again. No, it's not. The moth one. That's not the moth one. Um, I think it's important because it reminds me, this is the reminder of the love of God more than the reminder of an earthly father. Um, for those who don't know, I didn't grow up knowing my biological father. I had a few pretty awful stepdads growing up as a as a young man. Like I had one that was sexually abusive for seven years, at another one that was physically abusive for another seven years. And ongoing throughout my childhood, none of these men ever wanted to be my father. I have a specific memory where we're at my mom's wedding and someone asks, like, oh, who's that boy pointing to me? And I remember one of my stepdads simply saying, like, oh, that's Becky's son. I was my mom's boy. You know, if if I got in trouble of school, it was like, let me put his mom on. Like, no one took me as their child, right? Um, I was told my biological father left two weeks before my first first birthday. So I get a little bit older. My wife encourages me to go find him. I'm thirty, I'm in my mid-30s. Um, so this is last week. No, I'm kidding. I'm in my mid-30s when I finally get convinced that I would go find my biological father. And uh I'm expecting, you know, I was told that he was like this alcoholic, this guy that got in a bar fight. So I'm expecting to meet somebody who I'm not particularly interested in keeping in my life. My ultimate goal was just to share the gospel with this man and walk away. Um, we decide to meet at a Starbucks. I get out of the car and he is there waiting for me, and he just wraps his big arms around me and is like so eager to see me. He shows me pictures of me and him from when I was like four years old. He takes me to his home and they have a calendar that marks every year and what how old I was turning. They had pictures of me on the wall. His kids knew about me. Like to them, I was like that boy who was waiting, they were waiting to come home. Uh, maybe about a year later, I got to officiate my little brother's wedding. And we're at the wedding, and every corner I turn, my dad wraps his huge arm around me and says, This is my son. Have you met my son? And for the first time, I knew what it was like to be loved by a father, to not earn it, but just receive it as an act of grace. And that is the reality of the gospel, that even in your worst moments, the reason why that's a beautiful story is that even in your worst moments through the gospel, your father in heaven has his arms wrapped around you, calling you children. And I just want to finish with this quote by Dane Ortland. He says, That God is rich in mercy, means that your regions of deepest shame and regret are not holes through which divine mercy passes, but homes in which divine mercy abides. It means the thing about you that makes you cringe most makes him surge forward. It means his mercy is not calculating and cautious like ours. It is unrestrained, flood-like, sweeping, magnanimous. It means our haunting shame is not a problem for him, but the very thing he loves to work with. It means our sins do not cause his love to take a hit. Our sins cause his love to search forward all the more. It means that on that day when we stand before him quietly, unhurried, we will weep with relief, shocked at how impoverished a view of his mercy-rich heart he has towards us.
SPEAKER_05Oscar, think of all the people that you are denying the gospel. Write a book. Write a book. Seriously. What did Paul say? By all means reach some. Just do it. Yeah. I'll send you in the right direction.
SPEAKER_03So, Oscar, no surprise. I was sitting here uh balling my eyes out. Uh I was on the phone with you when your dad called you on the other line. Yeah, you said, No way, it's it's my my biological dad calling. And the reason why I'm weeping is because you are a living testament to the love of God and the power of the gospel. You know, we were we were doing a shoot the other night, and you pulled out your phone and you showed me a picture of your daughter, and you said, Look at this beauty. And and you're a living miracle, man. Because like this doesn't happen. God took you, transformed you. The abuse that you went through and endured, like we we hear about it, you know, and we just hear about it, but we're disconnected from it. You lived it 14 years of abuse at the hands of two different men, and you're one of the most loving fathers I've ever seen in my life. When I see you interact with your kids, when I see your kids around you, man, it's just this is the love of God.
SPEAKER_05The reason it makes such a good book is because you've come through it and you didn't become an alcoholic or a drug edit. You didn't shoot a lot of people because you're so angry. You handle it. And I think that could minister to a lot of people.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, thank you for the encouragement. I'm working on it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Ray, what do you think about Oscar writing a book? I I think I know of a good acquisitions editor uh who from a big publisher who would just jump at this. Yeah. Amen. Uh uh, we could call it Ray Comfort's My Friend.
SPEAKER_03Comforted by Ray. Call it Ray Comfort told me to write a book. That'd be a good title. Thank you, Oscar, for sharing that, man. I can't hear that story enough.
SPEAKER_05Um tell it again, Oscar.
Contentment Learned At The Cross
SPEAKER_03So when I was Yeah. So, okay, um, great. The love of God. So I'm sure a lot of it sounded so weird.
SPEAKER_05JC Ryle said there is no school for learning contentment that can be compared with the foot of the cross.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wait, read that again. I did an A.B. Earl on your intent.
SPEAKER_05There's no school for learning contentment that can be compared with the foot of the cross. Oh. Because if you can, if you can capture the love of God for you in that cross, you won't be chasing love or happiness. You'll find contentment in that love. And you'll never lose your joy because you rejoice that your name is written in heaven because of that cross.
SPEAKER_03Wow. Well, and and Ephesians puts it well, right? In Ephesians 3, that you may know what is the width and length and depth and height, to know the love of Christ which passes knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fools.
SPEAKER_05But isn't that an oxymoron that you might know and it passes knowledge, you're not gonna get there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's it's unreal. You know, just a glimpse, again, of the cross is enough to fuel us. And and we just need to know that, right? We're straying, we're despondent, we're stressed, we're it's simple. We've disconnected from the reality of the love of God that abounds to us. I mean, again, we've talked about it before, right? Like there are things that mitigate other things that are vexing us because they're so much greater. You know, oh man, uh I'm I'm I'm so hungry, I'm starving. But we know we're heading to a five-star restaurant where we're gonna eat. That mitigates it. It just it it's just like, okay, I'm I'm fine, no big deal. It's different if we're in a desert and and we're lost and we haven't had food in days. That's different. But we're heading toward the restaurant. We know we're almost there. Okay, that that so whatever's happening, yeah, it's tough, it's hard. We lament. We've talked about that time and time again. We mourn, we grieve, but something should buoy us to keep us from the point of utter falling apart and utter despair.
SPEAKER_05The cross is like the sun at midday, it just shines with God's love. And storm clouds can blot it out, but they're still it's still shining.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_05And if you never forget that, you'll always be content. Yeah. Even at the Red Sea Lions didn't, may God not hear this. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah. And and you know, again, that the the strength is that first John 4 10, and this is love, not that we love God, but that he loved us and sent his son to be the propitiation, propitiation, propitiation. I love the border too. You influenced me.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, it's a bad word. Anytime I blow it, it's because of your influence. Yeah, scripture doesn't say that. It wasn't written in English. That was a crazy English word. It should be substitute. Substitute is better than propitiation.
SPEAKER_03But propitiation is ubiquitous throughout scripture. Yeah, so here's here's Wheezy. Wheezy manifested.
SPEAKER_02What Mark's standing tune with the text that you shared, right? Before you believed, yeah, uh, before you repented, before you cared. Right? Before you had a thought about this. Um, God cared, God initiated, and God's gonna complete. Somewhere along the lines, when we do something wrong, we think God is out to punish us. And I and I and I want to make this very, very clear as a believer, as a Christian, as a child of the King of Kings, he no longer calls you servants, he calls you friend, and he will never punish you. It doesn't matter what you do, God will never punish you for anything you'll ever do because he punished his son in your stead. Now he'll chastise, he'll correct. Why? Because he loves you and he sees you the way you are, and he loves you too much to keep you like this. Uh Augustine said, Augustine? What did Augustine say? God loves each of us as if there were only one of us. Right? So our love for God, it's a response, and our response for him is because he loves us. So why does he love us? I I don't know. I have no idea. His love for you is the reason, and now we have a response that we we love back.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It reminds me of the story of uh the father's response to the younger brother and the prodigal son. Because the younger brother devises this plan that he's gonna go home and he's going to offer his service to be a servant in the father's home. He his expectation is not to be a child, it's to be a servant. What's interesting is that in Buddhaism, there's a parallel story, um, allegory to the prodigal son, except in the Buddhist uh allegory, the younger brother comes home, he's treated like a servant, and for like 40 or 50 years, he basically works his way into servanthood with the father. But the story of the prodigal son is that the father, like this this young boy comes home, like I'm gonna earn my way back in, I'm gonna be his servant. And how does the Father respond, he goes out there and he meets him on the street and he puts a ring on him and a cloak on him. Those are we we skip over that reality. Shoes, shoes on him. It's important. That's actually very important because what he's doing in Mesopotamian culture is re-establishing sonship. He's putting a signet upon him that would say, This is my son. You have my authority. You have my comfort with the robe. And so ultimately he's saying, You will not be treated like a servant in my home. You are not earning your way back in. I am going to give it to you through my grace.
SPEAKER_03You know, we Ray and I were coming back from in fact where we were at San Luis Obispo doing open air preaching, and Ray played for us Keith Green's song, The Prodigal Son. And Ray started to weep. Started to weep again. And uh it's so and I I was so moved by that, like just the way he depicts it.
SPEAKER_05And just that's seven minutes long. Yeah. Just called the Prodigal Son, and it's just oh, it's fantastic.
SPEAKER_03It's really good.
SPEAKER_05How would you describe it? It's just not a normal song.
SPEAKER_03It's a journey, really.
SPEAKER_05I mean, you know, I got a quote on the love of God here from Augustein. Oh, it's getting worse.
SPEAKER_03Actually, that's closer.
SPEAKER_05Augustine said the Ten Commandments reduced to two, namely, that we should love God with all our whole heart, with our whole soul, and with our whole mind, and that we should love our neighbors ourselves, which doesn't mean much. Just I just wanted to say Augustine.
Discipline As Proof Of Sonship
SPEAKER_03That's all he wanted. Mission accomplished. So, Mark, I'm glad you brought up discipline. So let me read the text that you were referencing. That's Hebrews twelve, beginning of verse five. And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to sons. My son, do not despise the chastening of the Lord, nor be discouraged when you are rebuked by him. For whom the Lord loves, he chastens, and scourges every son whom he receives. If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons. For what son is there what whom a father does not chasten? But if you're without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. Like I remember someone mentioning to me, and I I've talked about this before, I'm sure, the fact that he he has very limited time with his children. He said, Man, I have such limited time with my children. When I'm with them, I don't want to discipline them. I want to love them. I mean, when it came out of his mouth, I'm like, did he really? Did he hear what he just said? But I don't blame him because again, there's such a misunderstanding. We separate the two. Love demonstrates itself in the greatest way when discipline is necessary and it disciplines. Imagine, guys, God never disciplined us. He never chastened us. Sounds good to me. I'd like that. Um, Ray, can you please quickly, just not not for a long time, but quickly just sing for us, refine ourselves? No, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_00Um you know what it reminded me of? You you just remind me of actually is that I don't know if you guys saw this, but during March Madness, there's this viral video that went out. College basketball. That's college basketball. There's this viral video. If you haven't seen this, you need to look it up. Do you know what I'm talking about?
SPEAKER_02I'm not sure yet.
SPEAKER_00So there's this, it's a it's the uh women's college basketball, and there's this moment when it was Marilyn, and their like star player was just absolutely bombing, got caught off position on defense, turned the ball over two or three times, missing shots. And so you see this moment where the coach calls a timeout and she gets in the the player's face like nose to nose and is poking her in the chest. And you're just like, oh man, like that player must hate that coach. That doesn't seem right. But then they they actually got like the audio clip, or somebody read the lips of the of the coach, and she, in what she's basically saying is like, give me some in and out. What she's basically telling her is like you need to lock in, you're not paying attention, you're better than this. This isn't about me, this is about you. And uh later on, they the the girl they were down by like eight or nine points, and that girl locked in and they ended up winning the game. And later on, they're interviewing her, and she's like, I want to be coached that way. That's exactly what I need from my coach. Like, she knows how to get the best out of me. That's what loving discipline looks like. It's when you're falling short, someone loves you enough to not let you live down, but live to the potential that God, and this is like potential isn't self-help, potential is living out the image-bearing qualities that God designed for you to live. He disciplines you for your good. That's C. S.
SPEAKER_02Lewis said, God loves us too much to leave us as we are. There you go. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's C. S. Lois, by the way.
SPEAKER_05Chasing all discipline is like moving your child away from a cliff's edge. Oh, yeah. That's good. Amen. By by all means, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Whatever it takes. Oscar, I I saw that clip actually. And when I first saw it, I'm like, whoa, man, this is terrible. You know, like look at that. And then I and then yeah, I saw the context and I heard the player say, Oh no, she's stern. That's what I need. That's what you know. So yeah, that's so good. And and again, remembering what it tells us in Romans 8, 38 through 39. Oh, only rage. Oh yes, the love of God. For I'm persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
SPEAKER_05Amen. I mean, what a crescendo when you read Romans to end up with that.
Preaching Love By Preaching Sin
SPEAKER_03And Paul is intentionally, right, going on and on and on about one thing after the other to emphasize that's emphasis in that time, to emphasize it is impossible. No one will snatch you out of his hand, nothing will separate you from his love. You are his and you're his eternally and forever. Okay. You guys interrupted me earlier when I said, okay, the love of God, because I had a point in that. Because I know there are people listening right now, they're going, okay, great, the love of God. I can't wait to go out and tell people God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life. He's good. Ray just got angry a little bit. All right, Ray, speak to that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, nowhere in the book of Acts does that you've mentioned the love of God. The way to show God loves someone is to show them their sin. Paint the darkness of Sinai, and then the light of the glorious gospel will shine with that backdrop. Christ died for us while we're yet sinners. And if you think lightly of sin, you'll think lightly of the Savior. It's as simple as that. If you don't see what he did on the cross, that we weren't deserving for what he did, then the love the love of God will be superficial to you. And it's the love of God that drives me to do his will. We love him because he first loved us. He that's forgiven much, the same loves much. So make sure you get to see your sin. You know, study the the gospel, uh, sorry, that the um Sermon on the Mount. Study it, open it up, let it speak to you, and then end up at Psalm 51. Have mercy upon me, O God, according to your loving kindness. And that will put within you an appreciation for the love of God that will never leave you, right throughout eternity.
Loving Those Who Hurt You
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yeah, and it pleases the Lord when we revel in his love. I love this by Thomas Watson. He said, There is nothing that moves the heart toward God like a deep and settled persuasion of his love. When a believer is firmly persuaded that God loves him, it melts the heart, draws out affection, and produces obedience. It's not fear alone that sanctifies, but love rightly understood. You know, understanding, grasping, knowing, and then and then being able to display that toward other people. Mark, what would you say to the person who, like Oscar as an example, who's been so deeply wounded, but they still have those people in their life that hurt them, but they have to see them maybe not obviously to that degree, sexual abuse, physical abuse that are criminal, but just hurt them and they're struggling to love them. What do you say?
SPEAKER_02Uh I think it's in the book of Romans it says that God has shed abroad his love in our hearts. And Corey Tanboom held on to that.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, you gotta go there.
SPEAKER_02You know, um maybe you can even say it better than I can, bro. You know, you know, Corey and her her sister were were not uh taken care of inside uh the concentration camps. Or Betsy, right?
SPEAKER_01Betsy, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and the guard was walking by, and the guard who had who had abused Betsy. And Corey apparently had said, God, I I don't love this person, but you do, and you have shed abroad your love in my heart so that I can love the unlovable. First and foremost, right? We we remove ourselves from danger, right? That that we'll we'll start with that foundation. Um but but you're free to love. You're free to to not snap back, to not get angry, right? That the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of Christ, or I'm gonna show them, I'm gonna put them in their place. No, it's like the love of God, it it it it came into our life, it challenged us, it it comforted us, and now it compels us. And we have to remember if it wasn't for God's grace, that is going to be you. That would be you, right? But somehow that chain was broken only by God's grace. So you are free to just simply love the unlovable. And I think in so doing, and what does that look like, right? It's it's being rich in good works, it's not uh reviling when you when you can, when you have the ability to. Uh when somebody cuts you off, you have the ability to wave, you know, and and to and to pray. Who knows what they're going through? Uh and um and just realize that Christ went through much worse. And he did, he suffered at the hands of cruel people so that we would not have to suffer the wrath of the Father. The the wrath of the Father came down upon the Son through people and through the separation on the cross and the ripping of the beard, so that we would have access into the Holy Folies. That you can, even in the midst of that, fellowship with God, fellowship with the Lord. You know, we watched an amazing movie on Vid Angel called uh Redeeming Love, and the story is taken from uh the book of Hosea, where Hosea was um a prostitute and uh Gomer Gomer Gomer.
SPEAKER_03Hosea and Gomer. I'm confusing the names. Yeah, it's Hosea and Gomer was the prophet and the prostitute.
Corrie Ten Boom On Forgiveness
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right, that's right. And but there's a scene in there where where the prostitute is is being raped. And she's just not moved. The depiction is that she's not moved, and she she's just in an attitude of worship in the midst of this. And I and I share this with my kids, my girls, as they were growing up, I said, listen, daddy's gonna try to be there for you as much as he can. And I can't guarantee you that I'm gonna be here for the rest of your life, but I'm gonna be here for the rest of my life inside your life. And I don't know if what lies before you is trafficking. But I don't want you to doubt the love of God. And I'm telling you, in the midst of the hardship, in the midst of the discomfort, in the midst of the difficulty, in the midst of the slavery, you can enter into a place of worship and the world does not understand this, the world cannot understand it. But I'm telling you, your God will never leave you. He will never, ever, ever, ever forsake you. Worship God, not just when times are going good, but worship God when things are difficult. So when you are up against the wall and the red seas in front of you, know that you serve a miraculous God and you can worship God in the midst of the fire. And if you're gonna go through the fire, you might as well dance. And we're gonna go through the fire, you might as well dance in the midst of that refiner's fire. Because God is not gonna take you into a place and drop you off and forget about you because he's doing something else over here. All right. His eyes are intent on you, and he's not blinking because if he was to blink, he'd be taking his eyes off of you. Learn to worship God in the midst of the difficulty because he is leading you through, and those issues in your life are not issues, they're stepping stones to get you onto the path where God wants to make you the most usable and the most pliable. Don't fight against that. Worship God.
SPEAKER_05So Corey Tanboom was at a meeting and she saw that God. Is that what it was? Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but but there was a there was another incident where Corey was struggling with hating the guards and and Betsy was dying. And she saw the hate in Corey, and she said to her these words, she said, Don't hate, Corey, don't hate. And then she said this this powerful quote that's often shared There's no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still. Say it again. I don't want people to hit rewind. There's there's no pit so deep that God's love is not deeper still.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, let's go.
SPEAKER_03And so we we need to remember that. And I would say, look, that that when when we fail to love others who have wronged us, it's because we have forgotten our sin against the Lord and his overwhelming and abundant mercy toward us.
SPEAKER_05So did that God ask her for forgiveness? He did.
SPEAKER_03He said, Forgive me, sister. And she said she stood there mechanically, woodenly.
SPEAKER_00Hold on, I don't know. I can I love the way you explain this, but we skipped over a part that you usually explain, which is she gets out, she's touring about forgiveness, and at one of those speaking engagements, a man walks up to her former guard.
Nothing Separates You From Love
SPEAKER_03She's waiting in line, he walks up, he's one of the former guards from the from the prison, one of the guys that treated them worst. And he comes up to her and he says, Sister, will you forgive me? And she said she stood there frozen, and then mechanically, woodenly, she reached out her hand and put it into his, and she said, She felt this surge go through her hand, into her arm, and into her heart and just explode. And she just said she looked at him and she said, I forgive you, brother. Wow. And then she and then she gave this line to forgive is to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you. The prisoner was you. And it's so true, friends. So can I can I have a final thought?
SPEAKER_02I know you're closing up, but I want to share the scripture, Mark. You know, Romans 8, it says, For I am sure that neither death nor life, and it goes on, nor any other, nor all creation will be able to separate me from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. Know this God's love, it's not fragile. Right, it's not going to break. Uh God can handle your fragility because he's not fragile. He is going to do a work inside of you. And Martin Luther, uh, take it for what it's worth. You know, so when the devil throws your sins in your face, uh, tell him, I admit that I deserve death and hell. What of it? I know for I know one who suffered and made satisfaction on my behalf.
Book Recommendations And Closing
SPEAKER_03That's good. I like that. That's so good. Amen. And let me leave us with a quote from Jerry Bridges. He said, God's love is not a pampering love that shields us from hardship, but a perfecting love that uses every trial, every sorrow, and every difficulty to conform us to the image of Christ. His love is purposeful, not indulgent. And on that note, friends, I just want to say, listen, the love of God is centered in the gospel. That is where it is found. That's why you need to get Jerry Bridge's book, The Discipline of Grace. That's why you need to get the gospel primer by Milton Vincent. When people ask me, what would you do different as a new believer? I would have read those two books. I encourage every new believer that I can to read them because they will help you really grasp the love of God that's found in the gospel. Amen. Amen. Amen. All right. Are we going to go silly? Are we going silly or not? We have to. Don't forget the four questions survey and like, subscribe, share. By the way, send us your questions. So we're going to start dealing with questions, hopefully, on every episode. Do that at podcast at livingwaters.com. Thank you for joining us, friends. We'll see you here next time on the Living Matter. Whoa. Wow. Let's see what you guys do to me. Living Waters. Wow. Man, that was bad. Podcast where we have no idea what we're doing.
