Ep. 399 - When Life Falls Apart: Finding Courage through Crisis

When suffering suddenly interrupts life, where do believers find the strength to endure? Pastor Shane Idleman joins Ray and Mark to share his recent cancer diagnosis and the profound lessons God has taught him amid uncertainty, fear, and waiting. Rather than letting the diagnosis shake his faith, Shane explains how the Lord has drawn him into deeper dependence on His sovereignty, reminding him that God's grace is given one day at a time. The discussion explores how trials reveal what believers truly trust and why resting in God's character brings peace when the future feels uncertain. 

The guys discuss difficult decisions that often accompany serious illness. Shane shares how he sought the Lord while weighing treatment options, emphasizing that believers should neither act out of fear nor place their hope in medicine itself. Instead, the guys encourage listeners to pursue wisdom, remembering that healing ultimately comes from God. Throughout the discussion, Shane returns to a simple truth that carried him through the diagnosis: God's sovereignty is the believer's sanity, providing stability even when circumstances remain unresolved.

Spiritual fruit often grows from suffering. Shane tells Ray and Mark how his diagnosis has deepened his compassion, reignited his preaching, and renewed his dependence on Christ in ways comfort never could. They discuss how affliction often becomes God's instrument to awaken His people, refine their faith, and produce lasting spiritual fruit. Shane also challenges the modern church to recover preaching marked by conviction and dependence on the Holy Spirit rather than by comfort and cultural approval. Rather than viewing suffering as evidence of God's absence, they encourage believers to see it as an opportunity to know Him more deeply and trust Him more fully. 

Finally, the conversation turns to the hope found only in the gospel. The guys contrast the biblical gospel with the man-centered message often heard today, reminding listeners that Christ came first to save sinners from God's wrath before addressing life's temporary struggles. Everyone will one day face death, making repentance and faith infinitely more important than any earthly diagnosis. Whether facing cancer or any other trial, believers can rest in the promise of eternal life, while those who do not yet know Christ are urged to trust Him today. Ultimately, the episode reminds listeners that suffering may change life's circumstances, but it cannot overcome the hope found in Christ alone. 

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Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Transcript

Faith Tested In Real Time

SPEAKER_00 0:00

True faith has to be tested. It has to be tried. The furnace of affliction, the Bible talk about. You know, a lot of times in Psalms, the Lord afflicted me, but it was good for me. You know, and so I think things like this, they really um for the first time ever, I've had to process, man, this could go quick. And hmm, I'm ready. Am I ready to I'm ready to meet him. I just don't like the process of being. That's that's the problem. And I've got kids and a wife, and so you really he he becomes your anchor, or you become bitter and upset. And uh people at they they've they used uh I've got emails and stuff like how can bad things happen to good people, right? And I let go at RC Sproll said, he said that only that's only happened one time in all of human history, and he volunteered. Right.

One Day At A Time Strength

SPEAKER_04 0:53

In 2003, a commercial fisherman named Jose Salvador Alvarenga was blown off course in the Pacific Ocean. And he had drifted for 438 days before washing ashore, thousands of miles away from the place in which he had embarked. He said that he survived by catching fish with his bare hands, uh, drinking rainwater, and most importantly, he said he refused to surrender even after his companion had died months into the ordeal. When he was asked how he endured, he repeatedly spoke about taking life one day at a time instead of allowing himself to be overwhelmed by the enormity of his situation. And oftentimes, God does not give us strength for an entire year. Grace for next week. But it's grace for the day, grace even for the moment, moment by moment. In fact, Jesus said, do not worry about tomorrow. And that obviously, I get it, gang. It is easier said than done, especially when your world and everything around you is falling apart.

Meeting Shane And The Nightmare Begins

SPEAKER_04 2:07

And to help us navigate uh through those murky waters, I'm joined in the studio by Ray Comfort and Pastor Shane Eidelman. Shane is the founder and the lead pastor of Westside Christian Fellowship in Southern California. He's the author of several books, including The Dark Night of the Soul, and I almost quit. He's the host of the Regaining Lost Ground podcast and radio program. Shane, thank you for joining us here today.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

It's good to be here. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

Shane, who who are you? What why are you with us? What what is it that God is doing inside your life right now, especially in the last few weeks?

SPEAKER_01 2:44

Before you answer, let me just say Shane's a personal friend. I love him. We've known each other for years. I've spoken at your church a couple of times. You've trusted me with your pulpit. Let me tell you about a dream I had. You weren't in it. Uh about two days ago. Um I it was a normal dream. It was one of my nightmares. They reoccur. Whoever's re there repeats. I don't like repeats. Yeah. And uh I have this dream that I was lost as usual, freaking me out. And then I was climbing this high cliff. Now, I'm not afraid of heights. I'm just afraid of falling. And falling from great heights. That was like a joke. And I thought to myself, this is horrific. This is a dream. I'm gonna stop this. And I did. I found the turn off button in my dream, which just amazed me. But earlier this year, you found yourself in a nightmare that you couldn't turn off. Right, right. Tell us about. Tell us about your body.

SPEAKER_00 3:32

Yeah, about um, I think it was February, I had a swollen

Diagnosis And Choosing To Pastor On

SPEAKER_00 3:37

lymph node for many months, about seven months. And like most guys, you know, this will go away. Must be an infection, my body's fighting. And then uh through a series of events, my physician obviously said, hey, it's, you know, you need to get this checked out and um find out what's going on. And so, you know, there's a whole biopsy on whether you open it up or you shouldn't, but I I need to know what I was dealing with. Um, so I decided to go that route. And uh it came back as head and neck cancer um so in the lymph node, and then it's reflecting a primary uh tumor in the in towards the tonsil area. So I get hit with that. I mean, you just you know unless somebody's been through it, they don't really, it's hard to explain, you know, just the gravity of one day nothing, the next day, you know, we're in this in this fight. Um, and so I had a choice to make, uh, talk to our elders. Do I hit this hard, take some time off like a medical sabbatical for a while? Um, but then I talked to my pastor, another pastor friend of mine. I just prayed and I said, I think I'm just gonna pastor through it. You know, what what let what am I gonna go do? Just, you know, sit at home and and not feel well because I love church, I love worship, and I love being there. It's very encouraging. However, also I, you know, I have a background in health and fitness, so I've got a lot of experience in this area, know what's going on. So I actually wrote a booklet about it to help people

Health Background And A Cancer Roadmap

SPEAKER_00 5:12

navigate these waters. Can you just tell us about your background in health and fitness?

SPEAKER_01 5:16

I mean, everyone's I got a background in health and fitness.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

Oh, yeah, true. Well, I started at a young age um with uh it was a company called actually 24 Hour Fitness Centers. Uh, before that, it was Family Fitness Centers, and I became a district manager. And so I had, you know, the uh personal training programs. I study with the uh National Academy of Sports Medicine. Yes, but I I taught, I learned from the National Academy of Sports Medicine. I but I never pursued a degree, and you know, I was just wanted to learn all this information about nutrition, how the body works, mainly into bodybuilding. You know, this is back in Schwarzenegger time, right? And uh, and then I was had was over multiple fitness centers, multiple personal trainers. So I found out what works, what doesn't, and why when it comes to health and fitness and weight loss from a biblical perspective, you know, and so that's what I began to write about, begin to teach on, and then God had other plans and moved me to the pastorate. And then I began to, because obviously it's more important, the the spiritual, but I still have that knowledge of how the body works, how to fight disease. Uh so it's when I got the new, I wasn't surprised because I was a prodigal, you know, for many years, and you know, your you your body, I won't get into details, but your body's constantly fighting what they call DNA, switches, epigenetics, you know, manipulation of the genes, and your your your immune system fights it, kills it. But sometimes, especially as we get older, uh, you know, our immune system isn't as strong, and and this has come uh into my life, and then that's when I actually had you speak. I reached out, had you speak uh because I was going to take that week off. And so navigating these waters, you know, there's lots of questions people have on conventional treatment, alternatives, immunotherapy, waiting on the Lord, just trusting him. What should I do? Should I not move out in fear? Impulsive decisions, and so that's kind of why I wrote the booklet is to help people navigate these waters.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

I want this podcast to be very special because who of us and a whole of the human race isn't fearful of cancer? Oh, absolutely. It's the leprosy of the day. Just the word is just hard to say. Yes. Cancer. And yet, 600,000 Americans will die of cancer in the next 12 months. So it's something that concerns all of us. It's a fear we all have. And here I am sailing along, if suddenly I had a lump there, went to the doctor, he says, You're going to be dead soon. I just wonder how I would handle it. And firstly, I'd I'd jump on Romans 8.28, God's in control, all that. Right. But what do I do next? Do I go to a doctor? Well, I love my doctors, and I say doctors because my previous doctor, before the one that just died, was sick, and I had to encourage him. And uh then this other one died, and I've got another doctor, and it's everyone, every doctor I have just gets sick or dies. And you you watch on pharmaceutical advertisements on television and on the internet, they just say, see your doctor first. See your ask your doctor, like the doctor's Superman. Right. They're ordinary people with their fears with all these pharmaceutical companies giving them drugs to push, samples of drugs, because the one that died used to give me all these pills all the time that he got free, and say, So a lot of them are kind of confused. So we need someone like you to help us navigate this utter confusion that would come upon us if we found that we we we were terminal with cancer.

Treatment Paths And Natural Immunity

SPEAKER_00 8:36

Yeah, I mean, the f and I'll give you the abridged versions, of course, you know, there's a lot to it. But the key for me was I developed this saying, God's sovereignty is my sanity. So once you begin to rest in his sovereignty, he doesn't need doctors, he doesn't need supplements or alternatives or conventional. He'll use it, right? We use wisdom. But the first thing has got to be, Lord, I'm gonna seek you with all of my heart, with all of my strength. You're my hope. There's no plan B. And you start being thankful. You know, I was actually thankful because you don't know. You, I mean, the prognostic isn't great, you know, with what I've I mean, it's not, you know, it's not news you want to get. But also, I lost my dad at 54, a heart attack on a construction site, never had time to say bye. My mom five years ago, aneurysm, never had so it's it's there's peace in knowing, you know, you have time to talk with kids and work things. And God could give years left. We believe in healing, but I also want to come against these name and claim it charlatans that are very dangerous to the body of Christ. And what is healing? What's genuine healing? How does that look like? So the premise has to be is God is first. His sovereignty is our sanity, rest in him. He's got this. You're in the word more than social media, you know, and you're just trusting him. Now, when you're trusting him, though, he gives us wisdom. And so that's what I wrote the booklet about and tried to help people is there's basically three ways. Conventional therapy, which, you know, chemotherapy. Chemotherapy kills the fastest growing cells. That's what it does. The fast and cancer is fast-growing cells, so it kills the fast-growing cells. However, your hair follicles are fast growing, and that's why people lose their hair. Your digestive cells, microbiome, gut bacteria, all that good stuff is fast growing too, so it really does damage to the gut, and it it knocks out the uh bone marrow immunity. So the chemo, the conventional, that you have to weigh things, it will hurt natural immunity. It there's really no way around it. And a lot of times it comes back because uh chemotherapy conventional does not kill the cancer stem cells that cause it. They go, the chemo and radiation go after the cer the surface, but not the source, what's causing it. Um now there's tools. I mean, radiation would go through the neck, it would damage everything, vocal cords, no saliva glands anymore, you know, for a speaker, it's not a good thing. So you're you're trying to weigh all these things, or do you boost natural immunity, God-given natural immunity?

SPEAKER_01 11:10

So which way did you go?

SPEAKER_00 11:11

Um I'm I'm open to anything God wants to do, uh, for sure. But I looked into natural immunity. Um, how how what how do you fight this? Um, and then we've talked before, you know, I don't know if you can take it off, we can't talk about it, but you know, ivermectin, fembenzenol, membenzenol, uh, even though cancer is not a parasite, the biochemical pathways that it how it kills the parasite also affects a camera's a cancer cell. So, for example, ivermectin from the soil of Japan in 1970, it goes after the DNA, what they call it, destabilizing of cancer. And then the fembenzenol, membenzenol, even though they're veterinarian, they go after the metabolism. So you do have these uh what they call repurposed drugs working against it.

SPEAKER_01 11:58

So anyone can get those drugs?

SPEAKER_00 12:00

Uh if you if you talk to a doctor, I mean your doctor can prescribe it. They probably it actually just came out with a peer-reviewed study. You know, peer-reviewed is your peers reviewing it. It's it's it's national news about a month ago. I think I shared this with you. Yes, can you give the names again slowly? Ivermectin and then fen benzenol and menbenol. Okay. And they are they're kind of the same category, but different. They're parasite medications. They actually kill parasites. And the same way they do that. Again, supposedly, I'm not an expert, I'm not out there. To me, nothing is bulletproof. Um, but then you go, what happens is the FDA is pretty strong on certain things. So people go right over the border because you can do things that you can't do here. One thing is it's called dendritic cell therapy, where your dendritic cells are the cancer fighters. They'll they'll remove, let's say, a liter of blood, 10,000 dendritic cells, and they'll multiply to 10 million, and then they'll put it back into your blood to fight these cancer cells. There's something called uh amygdalin, it's an IV drip, and it actually comes from apricot seeds. And what's an apricot seeds? A small amount of cyanide, but your normal cells have an enzyme, wipes it out. But cancer cells don't. And so this is, I mean, this has been since the 1960s, but they kind of suppress, and we can get into Boswellia, frankincense, DMSO. I mean, there's so many natural things, but you don't want to count on those either, like, oh, if I do this, this is my savior. But I think boosting your natural immunity, um, you know, diet plays a huge role. What what kind of food is, because food is either if I eat, let's say, God-given food, uh, blueberries and some chia seeds or whatever, this it's giving me life. The phytochemicals, the cancer-fighting principal chemical uh antioxidants in there giving me life versus Doritos. No life, no death, nothing. It's processed. And so how that affects the body. Right now, colorectal cancer is skyrocketing in young adults. Why young? That's that doesn't, that's if you research it, it's not for young adults, but it's because of dietary choices and obesity. Um, and so um that was about a couple months ago. I went that I mean, you can get even vitamin C, they have intravenous vitamin C where you take 50 grams and it turns into hydrogen peroxide, which also has a devastating effect against cancer. I mean, there's lots of, and this is all in PubMed, Mayo Clinic, Stanford research, but they'll say you have to do it in addition to conventional, because they can't get it rid of that conventional. So once I did a lot of that, I felt the lymph node was was much smaller, uh, the neck wasn't as swollen, uh, still can't identify exactly where the primary's at in my mouth. So I'm kind of giving it um a few more months before I'm not, I don't think about as much as people think until people ask me. Um I'm trying to live my life. I've got five kids. Um, but really wanting to encourage people. I just had a phone call with a man who found out recently on my way here. And guys, listen, God's got this. Um, we are all exposed to cancer every day, every every person on planet Earth, because there is what they call genetic switches that take place. Your DNA is is is the mutations and things happening, but then your dendritic cells, your T cells, your regulatory T cells, all these things hit it and they kill it. But when cancer is identified, it's not a reason to get in shock and oh, I'm gonna die. No, not necessarily. You've got a wake-up call. Now let's make some lifestyle changes. For most people, it causes them to fully surrender their life again to God. And for me, as it's almost like, Lord, take this away, but don't take it away because the intimacy with Him, the worship is sweet, the word, like you have

Fear Management And Wise Medical Counsel

SPEAKER_00 15:50

this relationship with the Lord that is so powerful and profound. Doesn't mean you don't struggle with fear and anxiety when it comes in, but then you still have this the shepherd is keeping you. It's just it's it's kind of an incredible spot to be.

SPEAKER_04 16:03

That reminds me of a quote, and I want you to comment on this. Uh, a friend of mine is uh going through cancer, you know, in and out of chemo, we're having dinner tonight. And she said, I don't wish cancer upon anyone, but the effects of trusting Christ more and getting a bigger picture of life I wish upon everyone, that no one can experience unless you go through something like this.

SPEAKER_00 16:28

Comment on that lee. Because faith, true faith has to be tested. You know, it has to be tried. The furnace of affliction, the Bible talk about. Um you know, a lot of times in Psalms, the Lord afflicted me, but it was good for me. You know, and so I think things like this, they really um for the first time ever I've had to process, man, this could go quick. And hmm, I'm ready. Am I ready to I'm ready to meet him? I just don't like the process of being that's that's the problem. And I've got kids and a and a wife, and so you really he he becomes your anchor, or you become bitter and upset. And uh people at they they've they used uh I've got emails and stuff like how can bad things happen to good people, right? And I let go at RC Sproul said, he said that only that's only happened one time in all of human history, and he volunteered. Right. Wow, you know, and so but that's what it does. It's your faith is tested, the genuineness of it. And you'll see people fall away who don't have genuine because this is where the rubber is either Christ is all or he's not. And I believe in mirror, I believe in healing, I believe in faith, I believe in all those things, but God also will use uh situations to wake us up, to redirect us. Uh new moving of the spirit. It's made me much more compassionate, much more understanding, especially in my congregation. I've got people dealing with cancer. And I should, I should clarify, your friend, it depends on the type of cancer. You know, chemotherapy, if it's leukemia, it's a blood cancer, then maybe certain type of chemo would, you know, they that's why they have to take it to the Lord. Doxorubicin, cyclophosphamide, you know, they have different different roles, how they affect the body, the dosage, microdosage, low dosage. And so there's so much in there. You really have to seek the Lord and find, I think, a good doctor who can really help steer the course.

SPEAKER_01 19:01

We're talking about faith. I uh regularly get emails from my staff that people have sent in, and I read them, often cry because people are going through such horrific, fiery trials. Yes. And so I say to my staff, give me the phone number, because it's usually people that are on our database. And then I call them and I'm always apprehensive because I want to encourage this person. I'm a little nervous because they're going through such fiery trials. But I've got to say, every time I've come away from those phone calls, I have been encouraged. It's just been absolutely amazing. You know, we I say, Hi, it's Ray Campbell, we have a good chat, and then we talk about how God's working together for good, everything.

SPEAKER_03 19:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

For those that love him, he's let this happen for a reason. And where would we be be without faith in Jesus? And then we think about and talk about the ungodly and what a horror it must be for an unsafe person to get cancer. Oh god and the only thing in front of them is death, pain, and suffering, and no hope. It's like a man on the edge of a plane, 10,000 feet up, has to jump out of a plane without a parachute.

SPEAKER_02 20:00

Unbelievable.

SPEAKER_01 20:01

What a huge difference if you're given a parachute.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Right.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Your fear is controllable. You can say, okay, I'm gonna jump, I'm gonna hit the ground at 12 miles an hour instead of 120. And so that faith in that parachute gets rid of your fears, and our faith in Jesus helps us deal with our fears. So that's why I'm so encouraged to hear what faith does when it kicks in in a case like this. It's like talking to Daniel just after he gets out of the out of the lion's deck. You know, he says, Whoa, that was good, you know, because God was in it.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

But also, people, I think we we don't feel the the grace or under we don't, you know, my grace is sufficient, right? You really don't until you receive it. Um let me let me word it differently. God often doesn't give it until you need it. So people often say, I don't know how you go through that. Right. I don't either, but it comes when the grace comes when I mean, I remember the early morning, the first phone call, I mean my head just hit my steering wheel, my truck. And it's like, okay, Lord, you know, you got this. And then this flood of you know, emotions comes over, peace. Yes, and then you start going online and you know, you look at what I have and what's the outcome. Like, oh, right, oh, don't look at Google Doctor, right? I mean, it's never, it's never positive. The medical, for example, the ENT that I went to, ears, nose, and throat. I said, Hey, how about if we just, you know, because they want to jump right on, you know, a lot of different things. I said, can we give it a couple months and I'll just I'm gonna and just see if it, you know, the begins. He goes, Oh, that that never happens. You'd be the first person ever in the history of my practice for that to happen. Like, well, okay. Well, that's encouraging, right? I'm sh give me a break. Of course it happens. You know, you can, you can, you can uh whatever starts the disease, it's possible to reverse it and also seek God's wisdom. You know, what about if God was using that to just wake a person up? Right. You know, hey, this isn't this isn't your death. Wipe it, wipe away the tears. This is to wake you up. This is to discipline you. Or it's part of, I mean, our ch people commenting all over the United States, the sermons now are on fire, right? The altar's full. Worship, my, I mean, that the the spirit is that the spirit of God is doing, it's a revival type atmosphere. So God has used this to usher in. A prayer line is down the hallway, right? I mean, just every and it so there's there's a deep work of the spirit going on, but any deep work of the spirit comes with the cost. Any revival you read about, New Hebrews revival, uh, first great awakening, second great awakening, uh, and the Welsh revivals, and I love Reading, they they all came with a cost. And so that's that's encouraging.

SPEAKER_01 22:40

You know, when I was in your office killing time between services, I saw your mind in your library. Yeah. Everything you've got, I just all your books just I identified with everything you've got. Oh, praise God. All the quality stuff. So uh yeah, I love your theology. I I was I was thinking about Hezekiah and how he was um told by Isaiah, wrap it up, you're dead. It's all over. And Harry turned his face to the wall.

SPEAKER_02 23:03

Repented.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

And I thought I thought, that is just incredible because here is a king turning his face to a wall. He could have had anything he wanted, but he turned his face to all because there's nowhere else to go but up. Yep. Yeah. And uh Hezekiah got 15 years. Yeah. You know, he cried outside, Oh, God help me. So Isaiah come back and says, You got 15 years. And I thought, that's no consolation. Fifteen years passes like that. It's a vapor. I don't want 15 years. I want it forever. Yes. Because we are terminal, the three of us are terminal. Absolutely. You know, you you've got a little wake-up call, but we're all terminal. And when you realize that, you say, look what we have in Jesus. Yeah. Everlasting life, and look what we have to take to this world. My concern is that someone might listen to this and they've got cancer, and they're turning to God and say, Oh God, oh God, I'm so scared. Please help me, heal me. And they're missing out on the message of salvation.

SPEAKER_03 23:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

That's what often happens with drug addicts and alcoholics. They come to Jesus and say, I've got a problem. God fix my problem. They don't go, they go for the web, but they don't go for the spider.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Right.

SPEAKER_01 24:02

And it's so important if someone finds they have cancer, they've got to look at their state, moral state before God.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 24:09

And that's more important than the physical state. So that's very important to look at yourself in the light of the Ten Commandments, realize that God sees lust as adultery, hatred as murder, lying lips and abomination to the Lord. When we see ourselves in truth, that's when we see that we're in big trouble with God on judgment day and we need the mercy of God in Christ who can wash away our sins. Then we can come to God and say, Lord, I got this little problem on the side. I've got everlasting life. I've got this problem. Will you help me out with it?

SPEAKER_00 24:36

Because he won't direct you if you don't have a right relationship with him. So it begins with repentance. And I want to encourage people at shaneidleman.com, the booklet's for free. They can read 30 pages right now of all the different options that they're faced with. But I don't, you know, you don't want to just say, oh, I'm just trusting in God. That's good, but what's wisdom tell you? I mean What's the address again? Shane Idleman.com.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

How do you spell it? Shane. Oh, S H E. There's different Shane. That's true. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

S-H-A-N-E, and then Idleman, I-D-L-E-M-A-N, Shane, Shane Idleman.com. We're going to keep it there for free and people can read about it. Um, but I I would encourage to find a good doctor that's willing to work with you. I mean, like, hey, here's what's going on. I don't want to rush right in. Because you don't have to rush. The more people I'm talking to, they've they felt pushed or rushed into something.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Do you want a Christian doctor?

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Anything to you? I ideally, yeah. But you want, you know, I know Christians that don't know a lot, and I know very good doctors who know a lot that can, it's that whole balance of just using wisdom. And I would, what does the doctor say? What do they recommend? But again, what type of cancer? What degree is it? You know, mine they would consider stage three because of where it's metastasized a little bit. So stages. Um stage one is when it's identified. Let's say you have a mole on your hand, or uh maybe just a small tumor, and then it well, here's where it gets the definition gets clouded, depends on who's defined it. And then when it's like in a lymph node, you know, now it's two, it's divided. Now if it's in a few lymph nodes, you know, it's it's metastasize. And then of course the tumor size when people get it in their stomach or lung cancer. Um and it's scary. I mean, I just had I dealt with a bad cold a couple weeks ago. Um, and uh the number one area for mind to travel is lung. So I'm I'm I'm breathing, not I'm like, okay, Lord, I mean, this I'm what's going on here? You know, and so you deal with those fear and anxieties, but you take those thoughts captive, and uh you you I can't express this enough. The more time you spend in his word and praying, the stronger you become. But if you're trying on Google self-diagnose yourself and Instagram, you know, in all these different worst-case scenarios, and try this, and you know, I all in one day I had eat rattlesnake, drink baking soda, drink your own urine, uh, take uh hydrogen peroxide, drop. I mean, you you get all this information coming in, and you really got to just, you know, seek the Lord and then Wells a couple in there that I would ignore. Yeah, I would I would ignore a few of those. You know. Um but yeah, baking soda has to do with pH balance and things like that. So um it it it is a it people need to know you don't need to be um confused and I don't know what to do. Begin by seeking the Lord, find, pray about a good doctor. Ideally, they call it family integrated medicine or an integrated oncologist. What that means is they're gonna integrate natural alternative. You know, okay, you want to you want to try your diet, ivervectin, um, even for like what I have, it's called low-dose uh nullotrexin, and it binds with the opiate uh bind it. That's let me get I'm getting off track here. There's different different things doctors can recommend to help versus jumping right into you know chemo radiation, or somebody needs surgery, you know, breast uh cancer, and they can remove it. Let's, you know, that's something to consider. Jump on it. You know, you don't have to, you know, you want to use wisdom.

SPEAKER_01 28:21

So the first thing is down to Romans 8.28, then pray. Pray, seek the Lord. Um, and then go to your website and read it slowly because you update that because it's online, you can update what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Absolutely. I've changed a few things with new with the peer-reviewed study that just came out. And uh, and I do have a website where you can put in your situation, and if there's family integrated doctors, oncologists, um, who will look at the whole picture. Does that make sense? Because you can't, you if you're just gonna throw conventional at it, that doesn't always heal the body. Have you ever heard, oh, it came back again? Right. How many times have we heard that? It's because conventional goes after the the surface, right, but not the source. So, in other words, chemo radiation can kill the tumor, but what's causing the tumor? What's the stem cells? What's what's what type of, you know, with the smoking or alcoholism or different things that can be triggering certain things in people?

SPEAKER_04 29:18

I'm I'm curious, Jane, how has this affected your preaching and preaching the gospel specifically? A lot more tears. A lot more tears. Yeah. When I heard you preach, I thought to myself, I jumped out of my seat and I I hit the air with my fist, just saying, yes, this is the preaching that we need. You know, it's been said that if you preach as a dying man to dying men, and this is exactly how you preach, and it resonated so much with my soul that I cannot get enough of your preaching. Wow.

SPEAKER_00 29:52

I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Is that a direct result of what you're doing?

SPEAKER_00 29:57

William William Baxter said that. I think the Puritan, I preach as a dying man to dying men. Um the funny thing

Suffering, Revival, And Preaching With Tears

SPEAKER_00 30:03

is, when I came back to the Lord at 29, completely repented, fully surrendered, right? And this, what they call the mighty filling of the spirit, anointing, unction, baptism. I don't care what you call it, but do you have it? And this just and now I'm just this worshiping and the Bible comes alive, and that's really where the preaching came from, that that fire of the spirit. But then over the years, you know, church is doing great, right? Traveling speaking, I mean, you kind of get comfort and and empathy a little bit, and then so yes, this sparked this is it, this renewed the fire.

SPEAKER_01 30:44

This fuel is it's uh a great awakening that made you bawl your eyes out as much as it made me. We talked about it.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Oh and the word just it comes a like guys, I'm living this, like this is true. I'm living this, turn back to God, return, you know, backsliding nation. I'll return to you, prodigal sons, turn. And those, so there's a fervency, there's a passion that you can't make up. Yes, you can't just, you know, and that's what's wrong with many pulpits today. They're not on fire for God. They're trying to please, they don't want to upset, and that's not a pastor's job. His job is to really spend time with God. And then from that prayer closet, from that relationship with the Lord, that comes, the message comes.

SPEAKER_04 31:29

Oh, I love it so much. Yeah. Uh Johnny Erickson Tata, you know, we're all very familiar with her story uh diving head first in the Chesapeake Bay. Uh, she had said after that, uh, after that diving accident of 17 years old, she said, God permits what he hates to accomplish what he loves. And sometimes God allows what he could easily prevent, but because he has something deeper in mind than our immediate comfort. Suffering provides the gem equipment on which my faith can be exercised.

SPEAKER_00 32:05

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 32:06

She would not have been able to say this had it not been for the Chesapeake Bay. No, not at all. That affliction. Yeah. And Ray, this flies

Prosperity Lies And The Need For Law

SPEAKER_04 32:14

in the face. You know, you talk about in your book, uh, God has a wonderful plan for your life in John 10 10. Yeah. That uh, you know, Jesus came to give us life and that life more abundantly. And we we know that that word abundant, you know, the Greek word parasol means full, means to the rim, right? And oftentimes our gospel proclamation, it is, hey, come to Jesus and you'll experience joy, love, peace, patience, kindness. You'll experience these things that you've been looking for inside the world. And then you talk about how the apostle Paul, he went through different things, and I'll and I'll read a couple of things that he's been through. And then this is really his testimony in 2 Corinthians 11. Are they ministers of Christ? I speak as a fool. I am more, and labor is more abundant, and stripes above measure, in prisons more frequently, in deaths often, from the Jews. Five times I received forty stripes, minus one. Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, and night and a day I have been in the deep, and journeys often, and perils in waters, and perils of robbers, and perils of my own countrymen, and perils of the Gentiles, and perils in the city, and perils of wilderness, and perils in the sea, and perils among false brethren, and weariness and toil, and sleeplessness, often in hunger and thirst, and fastings often and cold and in nakedness. This is what the Apostle Paul went through. Much different than what we see. Now let's fast forward a little bit. I think that we see in Acts chapter 9, when the Apostle Paul got the word of what he's going to go through, right? So here we have in Acts 9, 15 to 16, it says, But the Lord said to him, Go to he, who? Paul, Saul, for he is a chosen vessel of mine to bear my name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel, for I will show him how many things he must suffer for my name's sake. Wow. He was given the teaching. Hey, this is what is going to happen to you. And therefore, when he goes through all the things, it was preparatory. He was ready because he was told what he's going to go through. And we remove from the message today to count the cost. We remove from the message what is actually going to happen. Right? We're all homesick for a home we've never been to. We're in love with a God we've never seen, in love with a voice we've never heard, right? But when we talk about this, Ray, bring this together and how this is missing. This sort of proclamation is missing in today. And this is what God has a wonderful plan is all about. And I think it it grabs a hold of your blood and it makes it boil when you hear a preacher do prosperity or anything similar.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

It's an absolute lie. Um they just don't read the book of Acts or Scripture. And uh, you know, we're we're we're losing the culture war. We're living in we're living in a very, very dark time in our nation. And I believe it's because we've separated salt from light. You separate salt from light with the salt of the earth, the light of the world. You try and stop the culture from rotting, you might make some progress. Area of abortion, homosexuality, pornography, adultery, all these things. But you ignore the light and you're going to get nowhere. And that's exactly what's happened with our nation. The church has lost sight of its agenda. If you read the book of Acts, sure, they were concerned about what Rome was doing, but they didn't throw themselves into politics. They threw themselves in the proclamation of the gospel because the gospel is the power of God to salvation. The gospel transforms the human heart from being sin-loving to loving righteousness. And that's what our nation needs to be healed. We need to understand that God is holy and perfect. We've sinned against him. And we've skewed the message. Instead of saying God is holy and righteous, we've made it man-centered and said, you've got something missing in your life. Jesus will come and heal your marriage, drug problem, alcohol problem, whatever problem you've got, Jesus is the answer. No, no, he came to save us from wrath to come. And when we come to Christ, and I found this, I was talking before. Before I was a Christian, I was as Moses enjoying the pleasures of sin for a season. The person who said, Money can't make you happy, I'd say try me. Just try me. Give me a couple of million dollars. See what I do with it. Ask yourself, who is happier? A man who can't feed his family or a man who can because he's got money. A man who can't pay his mortgage and thinks he's going to be on the street next week, or the man who has money to pay his mortgage. Money isn't the problem, it's the human heart. Yes. The love of money is the root of all evil, and we've forgot to address the issue of sin as a church. We've forgotten to be light and proclaim that glorious gospel. And I've sat under so many pastors that go everywhere except to the moral law. You know, I sit back and listen to their sermon. This is great, this is great. Then they say, you need to say, we need to trust in Jesus. So today, give your heart to Jesus. And there's no doing what Jesus didn't open up the opening up the divine law to show that we've sinned against God. There's going to be a judgment day. Hell is never mentioned. Who's going to flee from wrath to come if they don't believe there's wrath to come? And so we've got to make the Philippian jailer uh tremble. We've got to give him his own personal earthquake. We've got to make Felix tremble, because as a nation we've lost the fear of God, and we can see it in our leadership, political leadership, people giving God lip service, drawing near to God with their lips, and praying here and there and carrying on their own ways rather than saying, God, what do you require of us as a nation? And so salt and light have got to go together. Cut them in two, and we get nowhere as a church.

SPEAKER_00 37:45

And the good news, the gospel, you have to explain the bad news. That makes it more precious to see what Jesus did on the cross. I often think if Peter was in prison, they just killed James. Yeah. Luckily, God delivered him, right? His sovereignty, uh, Isaiah, Jeremiah, all the prophets, Ezekiel, Daniel, Joel, Amos, you know, I mean, you go down, it's like you just got to trust the Lord in your sovereignty, and then you use the pain to push you closer to the cross. That's right. That's the key. Because the closer you go to the cross, and I have to mention my wife would be here too as well. She's been incredible support. I mean, you have to have that second support for sure.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

I love the way Peter was delivered from the prison. James was killed with a sword, and yet an angel showed up to Peter and he was asleep in prison. And what the angel did was he smote him. It says it, uses the word smoke, and then the prison doors opened up. Light shone in the prison, doors opened up, and away he went. And that's a picture of the gospel. The law smites a sinner, it wakens him up. So good. You're in prison. That's when the gospel makes sense. That's when the light comes on after the smiting is there. You're in prison, you're under God's wrath, and then the gospel begins to shine and takes them out of that prison door made by God.

SPEAKER_00 39:03

So good. So good.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Elizabeth Elliott, she said, the secret is Christ in me, not me, in a different set of circumstances. Of one thing I am perfectly sure, God's story never ends with ashes. Drive us home here as we come to a close. If someone listening is not a Christian and their world is turned upside down, maybe they're terrified of death, maybe they're not. They haven't given it any uh two sense of time to think. What would you tell them? What is the message of hope for them that you would want to share with them?

SPEAKER_01 39:41

Sounds kind of fun, but you're gonna die anyway. So when you get that, when you get that as a foundation

A Direct Call To Repent And Believe

SPEAKER_01 39:48

of life, um you realize that your only hope is in Jesus Christ. He said, I'm the way, the truth, and the life. He said he was the source of life. Christ is our life. He that has the Son has life. I've come that you might have a life and have it more abundantly. And so when you realize that Jesus is life itself and you repent and trust in him, he puts his life in you. Most people don't realize that. You know, may the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you now and forevermore, they often say at the end of a service. That's the life of God in the believer, Christ in you.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

The hope of glory. And so when you look back, once you become a Christian, you'll say, Thank you, God, for cancer, because I needed to be awakened. Yes, absolutely. And I had an epiphany when I was at the age of 20. I realized it was terminal. That was my big revelation. It wasn't cancer, it was just what was going to happen. We are, yeah. And so that's what awakened me to search after God and say, God, why do we die? We die because we've sinned against God. The wages of sin is death. And our death will be evidence to us that God is deadly serious about sin. We're under the death sentence. So God isn't an old man in the sky that owes us anything. He's not reaching out from heaven and wearing a pink knighty, touching fingers with Adam. That's an idolatrous understanding of God. God is a source of life. We have to face him on judgment day, and we need to get right with him. And cancer can be a wake-up call for us to repent and put our trust in him who died on the cross, rose again on the third day, and the Bible says it was not possible that death could hold him. Let's go. And if you give your life to Christ, you can say also, it is not possible that death can hold me.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Ray, you just made a great, I don't know if you realize this, but if they realize that this could have woke them up to now have eternal life and know their Savior. Yeah. Well, that that could be the greatest gift ever given. Yeah. Amen. Wow. Powerful, powerful.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

Shane, thank you. Thank you guys so much for your story. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for being vulnerable. Yeah. For real. How how do people connect with you?

SPEAKER_00 41:55

Yeah, it's hard to do these. I don't really, you know, I just know it helps people. Shane Idleman.com. Okay. And your booklet is called A Calculated Assault Against Cancer.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

And I light the cava.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, it's on Kindle. It is on Kindle, but they charge there. So we we put the free ones in my life. Let's go to Shane Idleman. Yeah, and I just released the Dark Knight of the Soul. That one is more about going through the dark night.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

Amazon bestseller.

SPEAKER_00 42:22

Yeah, it was. Actually, yeah. Yes. Yeah, I'm surprised to see that. So uh a lot of people have touched. Very deep, very deep level.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

So, Mark, would you close us in a short prayer just praying for Shane, his family, and for those listening who are going through tough times?

SPEAKER_04 42:37

Father, um, I'm reminded of uh Vance Havner. Sometimes God puts us on our back so that we look up. And what what what a great, what a great place to look. Uh do whatever,

Prayer, Final Charge, And Hope

SPEAKER_04 42:51

whatever you need to do uh to uh grab a hold of our wandering hearts and thoughts. Thank you, Lord. Lord, we we lift up Shane and his precious wife and five children. We lift up the precious body that you've entrusted for him to preach to. And long after Shane is gone, these people will still be ministered to well because you minister well. Lord, would you do what you do best? We would you put a special blessing upon Shane and his family? Would you allow them to see your hidden smile above this dark cloud? And may you use all of his days for your glory. And may they reverberate into the kingdom forever and ever and ever. We thank you. We thank you, God, that uh none of us are done. You're not done with any of us, and we know that you'll be done with us when we die. And until then, uh the marching orders, they they stand the same. We will preach the gospel, we will die, and we will be forgotten for your glory. So thank you, Father. You do all things well. Look at our lives. And for those, God, that are listening who don't know you, God, may they come to know you. May they may you grant them repentance that leads to the truth. May they come to their senses and cry out to you for mercy. Not just because they are going through something difficult, but because what they need before you is righteousness, and without righteousness they will perish on the day of wrath. So we commit them, we submit them into your strong hands, and we thank you in advance, knowing once again that you only do wondrous works in Jesus' name. Amen. None of us uh get to choose whether suffering comes, but we do get to choose what we're going to do about it. And with this, you get to choose whether you go through it with Christ or whether you go through it alone. So let me encourage you and let me challenge you to look up because your redemption draws near. Today's the day of salvation. Today's the day to realize that when death comes knocking, that you will go through that door. That's just the fact of the matter. And you do not have to go through that door alone, hand in hand with your Savior Jesus Christ, is what he has designed you to do. He has designed you within your DNA to have a relationship with him, to know him and to make him known. So if you've never trusted him, don't await. Don't wait until life falls apart. Right now, as there's breath inside your lungs, use that next breath to cry out to him. As Thomas Watson said, every time you take a breath, you are sucking in the mercy of God with no guarantee of a next breath. So thank you for joining us, friends. We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast.