Ep. 400 - Overcoming Being Ashamed of the Gospel

Being ashamed of the gospel is rarely about the gospel itself. Ray, E.Z., Mark, and Oscar examine why believers often shrink back from boldly identifying with Christ and how the fear of man quietly competes for the worship that belongs to God alone. The guys explain that shame is often rooted in idolatry, whether it is the desire for approval, the pursuit of success, or the fear
of rejection. When acceptance from others takes the throne of the heart, faithfulness to Christ becomes increasingly difficult. Yet the gospel frees believers from living for the opinions of man and calls them to treasure Christ above every earthly idol.

The guys emphasize that the world has always opposed God's truth, yet believers are still called to proclaim the gospel with compassion and courage. They reflect on faithful examples of Christians who patiently shared the gospel for years, reminding listeners that salvation belongs to the Lord and that no one is beyond His reach. Rather than letting fear silence them, believers are called to love people enough to speak the truth, trusting God to accomplish the work only He can do. Evangelism becomes an act of worship, flowing from gratitude for the grace believers have already received.

The guys also discuss how believers overcome shame by fixing their eyes on Christ rather than on themselves. When idols are removed from the heart and replaced with a greater affection for God, the fear of people begins to lose its grip. They explain that remembering the gospel, meditating on eternity, and growing in love for Christ naturally produce boldness. Just as the disciples counted it an honor to suffer for the name of Jesus, Christians today are called to see opposition as an opportunity to identify with their Savior. The more believers treasure Christ, the less intimidating the world's opinions become.

Finally, the guys offer practical encouragement to grow in confidence while sharing the gospel. Boldness develops through faithful obedience, regular study of Scripture, prayer, and consistent conversations with others. They encourage listeners not to wait until they have all the answers but to trust that God equips those who step forward faithfully. Even when believers struggle with fear or shame, Christ welcomes them with mercy and grace rather than condemnation. Ultimately, the guys remind listeners that the gospel is God's power for salvation, Christ is worthy of wholehearted devotion, and there is no greater privilege than making Him known to a world that desperately needs Him.

Thanks for listening! If you’ve been helped by this podcast, we’d be grateful if you’d consider subscribing, sharing, and leaving us a comment and 5-star rating!
 
Visit the Living Waters website to learn more and to access helpful resources!
You can find helpful counseling resources at biblicalcounseling.com.
Check out The Evidence Study Bible and the Basic Training Course.

You can connect with us at podcast@livingwaters.com. We're thankful for your input!
Learn more about the hosts of this podcast.
Ray Comfort
Emeal (“E.Z.”) Zwayne
Mark Spence
Oscar Navarro

Transcript

Reluctance Turns Into Sudden Courage

SPEAKER_09 0:00

This is common, right? I mean, we go out and before we open up our mouths, you know, there's this slight reluctance. But then you engage in a conversation and it's like that reluctance is thrown into the wind. Yeah. And and or think of the scenario where somebody is you're maybe a little embarrassed in the midst of the situation, and then somebody starts ragging on God, ragging on the Bible. And all of a sudden, it's like you have the boldness of a lion, and you're ready to die in that moment. And that very there's nothing more important than just proclaiming the beauty of Christ in that moment. It doesn't matter what happened 30 seconds ago, everything is just thrown to the wind. And we have this power that comes down upon us to be his witnesses, as Acts uh 18, I think it is, or 128, uh that says, and we have that dunamous power, that dynamic power, and it doesn't matter what happens to us. What are you gonna do? Try to kill me? Good luck. I have an insurance plan that is out of this world, and nothing can happen to me unless God says perfect.

Episode 400 Banter And Milestones

SPEAKER_02 1:14

Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls of all ages, he is the one, the only, the legendary Ray Comfort! And today, ladies and gentlemen, Ray Comfort has a special announcement. Ray, please tell the people what this special occasion is.

SPEAKER_05 1:39

I hate that. Is it bringing back brings back horrible memories of horrible memories? Santa Monica, I'm getting out to preach, and you do that big announcement to a crowd of non-Christians.

SPEAKER_02 1:53

Ray, this is a spe I had to do it because it's a special episode.

SPEAKER_05 1:56

Episode 400, which is just a wonderful milestone. 400. Yeah, 400. I actually purchased a trophy and I got engraving on it episode 400 Living Waters Podcast. Where is it, Ray? I threw it in the trash. I was so excited to get it. Really, it was a nice little microphone that looked nice and shiny and professional, great. And when it came in the mail, it was just cheap.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

Where were we, you and I were? I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 2:23

I paid $19.95, so I thought it'd be really quality.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

But wait, there's more. It said realish gold. Yes. Ray, we were in an airport once, and uh, after we got our food, you went and took a picture of it up on the thing. Yes. Took a picture of it in comparison. Yeah, there's no comparison.

SPEAKER_05 2:43

This burger was flat, it was about three-quarters of an inch high. And the one on the picture was about six inches high.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 2:49

And it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 2:50

Yeah. Well, Ray, the thought is what counts. I did think it. Thank you for thinking and kind of not thinking because you should have known it would be horrible.

SPEAKER_03 2:58

400 is crazy.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

How are we still talking?

SPEAKER_05 3:01

400? What do we talk about? Seriously.

SPEAKER_02 3:05

I it is a bit shocking.

SPEAKER_09 3:06

Like it is. Well, it's it's actually 401. Well, it's 402. Remember the the last episode? Because we lost an episode because it didn't record. We did. And then we have episode zero.

SPEAKER_02 3:17

We have episode zero.

SPEAKER_05 3:20

Counted episode zero?

SPEAKER_02 3:22

No, well, it just says zero. And it was Oscar's idea.

SPEAKER_05 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah. Uh, but yeah, that's where I famously said we have no idea what we're doing. That's right. Is that what that was burned from? That's where it was birthed.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

I said, Yeah, we have no idea what we're doing. I would love to hear from somebody who's listened to every single episode. If that's you, shoot us an email.

SPEAKER_05 3:39

I'll shoot you an email.

SPEAKER_02 3:41

Yeah. If you have friends, uh friends, write to us. Let us know, podcastlivingwaters.com if you've listened to them all. And I've there have been people that have written and have said it. I've come across people. Some go back and listen again. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:54

They end up in the insane asylum.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

I was just gonna say that the heck can I say it tastefully? I thought I can't. I'll do it for you. Thank you. Well, what a joy, friends, it has been truly to be on this journey with you all. Thank you for listening. Thank you for telling others about the podcast. Uh, I mean, again, the last podcast I mentioned how we were in the top 10 in Indonesia, a massive Muslim country.

SPEAKER_05 4:13

I think just massive Muslims.

SPEAKER_02 4:16

I think in the top 35 out of all religious podcasts there, which is just humbling. And uh thank you. Thank you for listening and thank you for being doers of the word.

SPEAKER_05 4:25

Yeah, thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_03 4:27

France.

SPEAKER_05 4:28

Next time.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah. Uh I will say it's what's amazing hearing comments and meeting people. Last episode, you met people in Scotland, having met people all over the world. What's amazing is that God is using this. I mean, we've heard people coming to a saving faith, we've heard people you know, re-edified in their marriage, um, having a greater understanding of the value of being a part of a local church. So, what's amazing is that for 400 episodes, God has been using doofuses like us to do amazing things, truly, you know.

SPEAKER_05 5:01

Well, remember we were always a little nervous about the banter at the beginning. Should we keep it up? And we decided we would. And people love that. In fact, people turn it off when we finish.

SPEAKER_03 5:10

That's one of my favorite things. I know we've said it before, but hearing specifically young adults listen to our relationship and realize, man, I need friends like that in my life. That that's probably one of my favorite things that I hear. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:24

And look, I was speaking at a church in um Oro Valley, Arizona this past Sunday, and a dear sister named Colette came up and shared with me. She had had a brain aneurysm, has gone through so many trials, but she was in tears and just glowing with joy over how much the podcast has blessed her. So shout out to you, Colette. God bless you, sister. You really, really encouraged me. And thank you to all of you for sure. All right, friends, the show must go on. Time for a cool, classy comment. This is from that guy, JT. Subject line, college approved. This has become a favorite podcast of mine that I've gotten to share with a couple of friends on my campus. Yes, tell a friend. That's the theme these days. We live

Listener Stories From Around The World

SPEAKER_02 6:05

on a small Bible college campus, and yet it's always a joy to hear Christ being spoken about this way and seeing how the world could be explained in such manners as the topics that you guys tackle. Keep it up. Praying for this podcast to reach so many more. God bless. Ah, thank you, JT. College campuses. Yeah, that's cool. I think they listened to it in high school and junior high as well. They gotta tell. Because we tell people how to be safe from hell.

SPEAKER_07 6:29

Mark done killed.

SPEAKER_02 6:30

Oscar, do you like that? Mark, thank you. Mark is my partner in righteousness. Unlike you guys.

SPEAKER_09 6:37

Righteousness.

SPEAKER_02 6:37

You might.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

No, I think we're seven close to eight.

SPEAKER_02 6:46

Maybe it's eight million. Not a single one of those. Uh Ray, why is your phone in a she's just gone up?

SPEAKER_05 6:53

Why is your phone in a so it's on an angle so I can see it without it being in front of me, so it reflects my reflects my glasses.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

So in your mind, you thought we have this beautiful studio, this nice table, upright cups.

SPEAKER_01 7:05

I'm just taking the cup out of that, pick fine in the cup. Is that better?

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Looks like a yeah, looks like a nun with a hat on. It's the Pope from the All right, friends. Get ready for our special segment. Quality questions. This is from R.H. Good, awesome day to the Living Waters podcast. When is Oscar going to write his book? I will buy a copy as soon as it is done. My nephew Nathan would, as far as I know, he would love your book, especially if you sign it for him personally. You have no idea how much Oscar's book would do for the inner man of Nathan Meadows, my nephew. I'm waiting on the edge of my seat with tears held back, waiting for Oscar's book. When is it coming out? So who's the odd one out at this table? Ray's written, I think, half a book. I've written a book. Mark has written a book. Have you published it? Uh School of Biblical Evangelism.

SPEAKER_05 8:05

Oh, stupid little book. I thought it was on procrastination. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

And the only one at this table who has not written a book is none other than Oscar Navarro.

SPEAKER_05 8:52

That voice, though. That's gonna give me nightmares. I bet you can't do that again.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

No one's in the book except for Oscar Navarro. The face, though. You like that? It's the whole package.

SPEAKER_02 9:08

Eh, blinding. Uh Oscar, when are you gonna repent and write a book?

SPEAKER_03 9:14

I would love to, and I'm trying to. And uh by God's grace, I will. So thank you for the encouragement. Really appreciate that. Yeah. Um, yeah, hopefully one day, by God's grace. Thank you, Rh.

SPEAKER_02 9:24

Right back every week so we can read that for Oscar. All right, podcast. Shout out, the number 10 top podcast, the number 10 top Christian podcast in Spain. Spain. Spain and the number 35 top podcast out of all religions and spirituality.

SPEAKER_05 9:41

We best rain in Spain fall. Did you know? What's that? Where does the rain in Spain fall?

SPEAKER_02 9:47

I think uh in Spain, the rain will fall on Zwain.

SPEAKER_05 9:52

Have you ever heard that? No. The rain in Spain falls many on the no, it's a famous um Diddy. It's very famous. That's from My Fair Lady or Pygmalion. Have you heard of My Fair Lady?

unknown 10:05

No.

SPEAKER_05 10:05

Pygmalion?

SPEAKER_09 10:06

My Fair Lady.

SPEAKER_05 10:07

No, no, forget it.

SPEAKER_09 10:08

Just move on with life. I'm going to a musical. Um on Thursday night at the Seagerstrom.

SPEAKER_04 10:15

Which one?

SPEAKER_09 10:15

The Sound of Music. I was wanting to? My family.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Dude, that's right. I was gonna take my daughter. I think we still might be able to.

SPEAKER_05 10:23

So is this a professional one? Oh, yeah. Siegerstrom. Because my grandchildren have been in that.

SPEAKER_04 10:28

Yeah, that's right. Yeah. That's just such a great one. Yes. It's really fun to play the beautiful music.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

Is it Rogers and Hammerstein? Yeah, I think so.

SPEAKER_02 10:38

I'm gonna rap, though, you want me to refrain. My name's Wayne, I'm gonna rap about rain. Rain in Spain, don't do it in vain. I did it before and I'll do it again. All right, friends. And now a radically revolutionary resource. This podcast is brought to you. Speaking of the School of Biblical Evangelism, book and online. Mark, thank you for working with Ray to write that book.

SPEAKER_05 11:05

Also, didn't you write a book and it got lost?

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Ray loves to bring up bad memories. Is that real? Yeah.

SPEAKER_09 11:14

Ray loves to make people make his computer and the whole book win. We had an old IT guy who chose to delete the file and then the backup file and then the backup file into the backup file.

SPEAKER_05 11:28

Everything went.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Thank you, Ray, for bringing up a bad matter. What was the book?

SPEAKER_09 11:33

What was the book called? It was um preaching the gospel. But I'm bringing it back.

SPEAKER_05 11:40

Good.

SPEAKER_09 11:41

Resurrected.

SPEAKER_02 11:41

Yeah, let's do it.

SPEAKER_05 11:42

The sick, it'll be better than the first. Better than the first.

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Alright, Rands. Yeah, don't forget that school of evangelism online and book form. Living Waters Mug, David Study Bible, Living Waters TV, all at Livingwater.com.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

I think I was on a different pitch.

SPEAKER_04 12:02

I was just thinking.

Quality Questions And Oscar’s Book

SPEAKER_03 12:03

I was just thinking, we should sell that book online as digital only. And when they download it, it just says File Not Found. The book is called File Not Found.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

And don't forget, friends, a podcast YouTube channel. Like, subscribe, and do your just set someone up front.

SPEAKER_05 12:20

I'll be in jail. Come you're in jail. Veroskin Avaro said to do this.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Alright, friends. Today we're talking about overcoming being ashamed of the gospel. I don't know if you guys have ever had a hard time describing a word. There's a word in Arabic, and it's the word, listen. Zencha. For all of you my Arab friends. Podcast has been one of the top in Lebanon, too. Say it again. Zencha. Say it. Zencha.

SPEAKER_05 12:49

Zencha.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

I'm pretty close. Okay, Oscar, let me hear you.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

It's not zebra. Mark saying zebra. Zebra.

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Okay, Oscar. Listen. Zencha. Zencha. Ah. I can do it. Say it again. Zancha. Zebra.

SPEAKER_05 13:11

Such a doofest. Zimbra. Zimbra. Right. Zimbra.

SPEAKER_01 13:15

Ray. Listen. Really, really try. Zencha. Zindra.

SPEAKER_05 13:21

I didn't even go back in the laughing before I go in.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

That is pretty good.

SPEAKER_05 13:25

I thought it was good.

SPEAKER_09 13:26

What does it mean?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

I mean shooting. Okay, so that's one of those words. It's just so hard to describe. It's the smell, like you'll smell it sometimes when like there's an egg in a raw egg, maybe that was in a bowl and it's a smell, or raw chicken smell, or I can't explain it.

SPEAKER_01 13:44

It's like the smell of wool on the table. Oh, it's zencha. Oh, no, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

It's like it's sometimes, you know, when I when it drives me crazy, it's like I'll get a glass of water and I'll go to drink it, and I smell zencha. And it just makes me want to lose my mind. It's like carrots. Zencha.

SPEAKER_05 13:59

Well, stop saying it. Now try to say this.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

That's actually the name of my new cologne. Zencha. Now try to say this. I've done this with friends before.

SPEAKER_03 14:07

Uh Ahmad. Oscar? Oh, we have done this one before. Say it again. Ahmad.

SPEAKER_05 14:12

That's easy.

unknown 14:13

Ahmad.

SPEAKER_02 14:14

Come on. That's close. I want someone in here. You guys think you're saying it right, Mark? Say it again. Ahmad. Able. Apple. Okay. Right.

unknown 14:28

Ahmad.

SPEAKER_02 14:32

Let me try it.

SPEAKER_09 14:34

It literally sounded like it. Let me try it again.

SPEAKER_02 14:36

It's not. No, it doesn't. Okay, do it again. Say it again. Okay, listen to the smoothness. Mud.

SPEAKER_04 14:48

I want to try it again. Say it. Listen.

SPEAKER_00 14:55

Okay.

unknown 14:56

Shh, shh, shh. Mud. Mud.

SPEAKER_05 15:02

What does it mean? Should mean be careful.

SPEAKER_02 15:05

You don't get it. Okay, we'll try it one more time. That's good. No, that was good. So you okay. Rarely die. Okay, because there's no you guys say, no, Oscar did good. This is 100%.

SPEAKER_03 15:22

400 is the episode when everything fell apart, dude. What did you do in the month? We're 20 minutes in.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Oh my goodness. Okay, all that to say that it's so hard to define the word ashamed. Seriously, like how embarrassing.

SPEAKER_05 15:45

I've got it. Ashamed.

SPEAKER_01 15:51

Let's see if you can say it, easy. Shame.

SPEAKER_02 15:55

Oh boy. Because aside from defining it, it's the thing that we should want to be the furthest from because of how reprehensible it is for us as Christians to be ashamed of God.

SPEAKER_05 16:15

I'm so pleased you began with that. Because this is like doing a podcast on overcoming the shame of being married to my wife. I don't even want to go there. You know, we we shouldn't have any sort of shame. I mean a a woman could do something for me to be ashamed of, but God can't do it. Why should we be ashamed? And yet we know that God has um given the gospel a reproach, a sense of shame as a stumbling block to the proud. So there is that sense of shame that comes in the eyes of the world, but not for the Christian.

SPEAKER_02 16:49

Yeah, I I think um there's something weird about talking to your wife about how beautiful she is, but then being embarrassed to be seen with her in public, you know, or never never speaking of her virtues, you know, to others. And I think as believers sometimes we we're so blessed with the benefits of the gospel and and what it means in our lives, and we enjoy it and we have great fellowship, and then we go in the midst of the world that mocks our faith and mocks Christ, and we just we cower, we shrink.

SPEAKER_09 17:31

What is the core of that? What is the reason? Is it a fear of man? Can you put your pulse on it? What what do you yeah?

SPEAKER_02 17:38

I'd love yeah to hear Oscar. Sorry, you were about to say something, but but I want to say that you know, um at its at its core, and that's the dilemma, like how do you define the word ashamed, but then how do you define what we're ashamed of?

SPEAKER_06 17:53

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

Like what what is the thing that's that's causing us to do that, to pull away to and honestly, I I think it comes down to that universal yearning to want to fit in to be accepted and to be accepted.

SPEAKER_05 18:08

Well, you the minute you say, I believe the Bible, I believe the gospel, in the eyes of the world, you're saying I'm anti-science, I'm anti-homosexual, I'm anti-everything exciting the world lives for. Um you're like a monk, you're not facing reality. You're in a little monastery.

From Goofing Off To A Hard Topic

SPEAKER_05 18:24

And uh the world demeans anyone who says they're a Christian because we believe the scriptures and we trust in Jesus. Even his name is a reproach to the world. I remember once um uh a guy came to our door so many years ago, and I had this big painting on our wall in our in our living room that I had scripture put on, trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not to your understanding. And this guy came to the door and he's wanting to sell something, and he kind of stepped in, looked around, and saw the painting, and he says, Ah, trust in the Lord with all your heart. He couldn't finish it. Because even the word Lord brought conviction to his soul. Because it's uh it's the the the world hates God without cause.

SPEAKER_02 19:08

Yeah, you know, isn't it funny though? Like that's why Ray, I love the atheist delusion. That's why I love evolution versus God. Because I I think in those you give people space who deny God and who are proponents of evolution. You give them space to really face their foolishness. Because it's like, you know, again, like in our day and age, everybody playing along with that men can be women and women men, like just oh, and they're all saying, like, come on, like someone wake up here. Like, this is ridiculous is pathetic, you know. And that's why people will do illustrations. I just saw it the other day. This woman went to speak at a school thing where they had a transgender teacher and she was dressed like a cat. She said, I'm a cat, and you know, this and that. And and and it's like you have to do things like that that parallel to show people how stupid it is.

SPEAKER_05 19:59

Just say, I'm a dog and I'm gonna chase you out of here right now.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yeah, right. So, so you know, that there's that there's that element, but to give the world the opportunity to see how foolish what they hold is that everything was created by nothing. I love that, Ray. When you put that to people, and it's like they start to smile, like, huh. This weekend I was coming back from from speaking at in Oro Valley in Arizona, and I always pray for my lift driver. I usually take lift, you know, to get back home. And so I'm getting off the bus, the shuttle that takes you to the place where you can catch a ride. And I had pulled up the lift app, and then I was gonna wait to get off because you want to be there when you select it because sometimes they come quick. So I'm I'm getting off, I'm trying to get my luggage, and you know, I had the app open, and then I get off, and it I saw it selected my driver, and I had no idea what it's like. Sometimes there's the high-end, like black, you know, lemo type things you get. I'm like, oh no, and I I try trying to couldn't reverse it. And then my driver pulls up, and uh, and it was a Chinese guy, and nicest guy, he's been here two and a half years, but he's really eager to learn English. So he's like, you know, my customers are my teachers, you know. And he has a nine-year-old daughter, you know, he said, she teaches me, and but he spoke, he spoke well in that sense that I knew he could understand, and and so I start you know sharing the gospel with him. And it turns out, you know, he's like, I don't believe in God, you know, or anything like that. He was wasn't saying it contentiously, but just kind of factually. And and um, and then I I used the illustration with him of AI. I said, Do you know AI? He goes, Oh, yeah, yeah. I said, you know, robots, and I said, What if I told you that uh the these uh AI robots, um, like you know uh Optimus just made itself all by itself, and he goes, Oh no. I said, What's more sophisticated and complicated, a human being or an AI robot? Oh, human being, of course, you know. I said, and think about it, we made these robots, and to think that we just came from nothing, and you could see he's like, ah, it turns out at the end his wife's a Christian, she had just gotten baptized, and she's been pleading with him, you know, that that to go to church. So she told me you should, you know, if you want to come, you come to church. And so it was like so divine that it got selected like that. But I could see as I'm taking him down that road, he's thinking, like, oh yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_05 22:19

Yeah, it was really Ahmad.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Ahmad. Yeah. Uh, you mentioned earlier the the idea of idolatry, and I think that's an important, a super important aspect to what causes us shame. Uh, and we've kind of hinted on a few, Ed Welk. He's a great author. He's written quite a bit about the struggles of idolatry. And he he identifies six different idols, which I tried to apply. So you guys already mentioned one of them basically in regards to science, the idol of intellect or being seen as smart. In the first century, like the gospel will look foolish to some people. And he writes: today's Christians are tempted to be ashamed because of cultural accusation, anti-science, anti, anti-intolerant, not inclusive enough. The intellectual idol produces a person who privately believes but hedges. They soften the exclusivity, qualify the resurrection, and avoid words like sin and repentance. And it's it's that need to be seen as intellectual or smart. One of the other ones, which you mentioned, is the fear of man. You know, when you center your life on approval, you will constantly be hurt by criticism, the criticism of others. And I love the way Ed Welch Ed Welch says it. When you're seeking the approval of men, you're ultimately using men for yourself to get your own approval. So he says like this regarding other people, our problem is that we need them for ourselves more than we love them for the glory of God. The task God sets for us is to need them less and love them more. In other words, like our idolatry is a self-ambitious issue rather than loving our neighbor and loving God more than ourselves. Isn't that good? Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Yeah, and you know, we we can form, we do, we can form. Um, I'm sure you guys have seen those videos, like where people will go into an elevator and uh everyone is turned toward the back, and one person will come on and they'll just be standing there, and then eventually they'll they'll turn with everyone else. Uh, I just finished reading a book, uh, Atomic Habits. We've talked about it. Mark, have you ever read Atomic Habits? No. Okay, Ray doesn't read, so never mind. Um man, what a good book. Again, chew the meat, spit out the bones. He he touches on some you know evolutionary theory things and some psychological things. But aside from those, just great insight. But he talked about how uh they they did this experiment where they had a classroom full of people and they showed them a line, and it was like maybe let's say two inches, and then they had three other lines, and one was like five inches, one was like half an inch, one was like one inch, and then they said which one, and then one that was like the line two inches or whatever, the same, same length. And they asked them which one does it parallel with A, B, or C or whatever. And when it was just like two people in the room, and one picked the like the real long one, the other person's like, What are you talking about? No, of course it's this. Two people, same thing. But when it began to grow, three, four, five, six people, they ended up changing, saying, Oh, I guess they're right. Because of influence.

SPEAKER_05 25:37

Well, I think the analogy scripture uses uh all we like sheep have gone astray. We certainly are like sheep. Sheep imitate one another. And uh, I know we all know this. If you give out tracts to a line of people and one person says no, you can guarantee the next three or four people will say no, no, no. This you gotta you've got to plant people in there saying yes. Every third person is yes. Yeah, but yeah, it's just human nature. Would you if you stepped in an elevator and everyone was facing one way, would you join them? Absolutely not. You'd go the other way?

SPEAKER_02 26:08

I'd stay where I'm at. Yeah. I always walk in and I'd do this.

SPEAKER_05 26:11

You'll probably because they're facing the door.

SPEAKER_03 26:15

I would start to rap probably when I was in the Philippines with our friend Michael. Uh, that we were handing out tracks and people were taking them, and then I hit this line of students that were all sitting down, and it was no, no, no, no. And then I get to when I'm halfway through the line, I go, before I hand him the track, I go, he's not even looking at me. And I go, Are you a leader or a follower? And without looking at me, he goes, leader. And I go, So you'll take one of these tracks then. And he like pauses, he looks at me and goes, Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

And then people started grabbing. I'm actually surprised that anyone turned them down in the Philippines. They're so friendly here. Yeah. Mark and I opened

Why Christians Fear Speaking Up

SPEAKER_02 26:53

our preach at a university when we were there, and they were so cordial and nice. We're like, we were like wanting a heckler, but then we're like, no, we don't, because they're listening, you know? It's crazy. Yeah. Um, yeah. Uh Ray, I'm gonna quote one of your favorite quotes of all time. If sinners be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our dead bodies, and if they perish, let them perish with our arms wrapped about their knees.

SPEAKER_05 27:17

Spurgeon.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

You love that quote, don't you, right?

SPEAKER_05 27:20

Yeah, I I love it because so often people say when they look at a YouTube channel, and there's a channel, and there's some guy who's just mocking the gospel and saying, Don't want to hear, I don't believe this, and I don't believe that. And they say, Don't cast your pearl before pearls before swine. I go straight to Spurgeon and say, We've got to grab him around the knees. And I say to them, if you think this this person's a swine, what would you think of Saul of Tarsus? If you could get to share the gospel with him and he would listen, you'd say, No, all right, this guy kills Christians, he tortures them, not even gonna speak to him. And look at what God did. So nothing's too hard for God.

SPEAKER_03 27:52

I just yesterday went to a baptism and wept because about seven years ago, my friend Laura was like, My brother is an atheist, he hates God, he'll never be a Christian. And I met Stephen seven years ago, and yeah, we sat down, and it and I remember specifically, he said, if he if there was a God, I hate him.

SPEAKER_06 28:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:18

And uh over the last seven years, Laura nonstop prayed for her her brother. We met and have read books together. We've we've gone through some of the toughest questions out there. And uh that's with the atheist? With the atheist Stephen, and yesterday I went to his baptism.

SPEAKER_05 28:35

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 28:36

And yesterday uh I got we got pictures and film, and I remember like I was sitting there with Laura and her his his sister, and she was just like, I never thought this would happen. And so it's a testament, like God, God is gonna use it. No one's too hard. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:51

Well, it's like our brother Josh that we had here, you know, who's Dawkins' old kind of rights guy. What what what a delight, yeah, you know, that that was to see what the Lord does. And that should give us hope as we continue to engage people. And look, friends, we're not coming at this from like, oh, we never feel ashamed, you know. We and again, I'm trying to understand what ashamed means. I think we deal with that fear of man, we deal with those anxieties, but but you you press on because Christ is worth it, he's worthy, and we love souls and we care about people. Mark, uh oh, Ray.

SPEAKER_05 29:31

Um, Mark, verse 32 or 38. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:36

Ah, that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_05 29:37

Listen, listen to what Jesus said. Who for whoever is ashamed of me, and listen to what he says, and my words. That's the key. It's this words that we can be ashamed of. So good. And he talks about how, he talks about sin, he talks about judgment. And so we can have a concept of Jesus, an i idolatrous understanding of Jesus. I think Jesus was a great teacher, but I'm a bit ashamed of his words. And that's what he's saying. In this adulterous and sinful generation of him, the Son of Man will also be ashamed. Well, imagine that.

SPEAKER_02 30:11

Well, I think it's the contrast, right? Like you're ashamed of me in the midst of a wicked and perverse generation. Like makes no sense. It's like you're gonna be ashamed of me in the midst of like the these evil, wicked, lost, degenerated people. Um and that thought he says, Yeah, well then I'll be ashamed of you in the presence of my father and all his angels. I mean, that that's that that's a scary thought, you know, to to arrive on that day and to see ourselves standing before the Lord and we think of the opportunities that we had to represent him, but we were we were afraid of what? What is it, Mark? An opinion.

SPEAKER_09 30:52

And it doesn't change, right? I mean the people that have gone before us, they've had like the same struggles and stuff, you know, as well. You know, I was in York, uh, the UK, uh, last week.

SPEAKER_05 31:04

That's old York.

SPEAKER_09 31:05

Old York, yeah. And I went into an old bookstore, and I was thinking several years ago, I purchased for $10 um a Spurgeon commentary signed by C. H. Spurgeon's wife. She signed it, Mrs. C. H. Spurgeon. And she signed, she wrote it to uh Mr. George Wilson, who was a contemporary of Spurgeon, who had a church, senior pastor uh at the time. Well, that's why I went into this bookstore. And I went into the bookstore and I went into the religious section up on the second floor, and I see this book that's like this thick, and now and I purchased it. What does this mean to a listening audience? This this means this.

SPEAKER_02 31:44

It's like five inches, five inches thick.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

That's really good.

SPEAKER_09 31:48

And I purchased it for $100. Whoa. It was a $1739 Oxford John Basket Folio Bible. And I have been feeding AI the pictures of it and everything else. And it says that it's worth between $2,500 and $7,500. Whoa. And I gave it to my son. But inside the very back, and this is what I'm getting to, in the very back, there's a genealogy that this person who owned it wrote out of their family genealogy with the dates, the day they were born, the day that they died. And you see the penmanship and cursive writing of the people that were there they were born and they died, and it was in 1740, 1742. And I'm just like, wow, what in the world? These same people who read the scriptures that we're reading had the same struggles that you and I have. And they undoubtedly talked about the same things that you and I are talking about today. They probably had a podcast. They probably had a podcast with four idiots. Three idiots, right? So, where do we go from here? We realize that people have gone before us. These struggles are not new, right? These people that we are afraid of are going to be judged by God Himself. That we need to open up our mouths. I was on the train going from York down into Lincoln, and this gentleman sat across from my wife and I, and there was a lot of empty seats that were there. And we had now have a two and a half hour train ride. And I'm thinking, this guy should move and sit in one of these empty seats over on the other side. But no, he's across from us. And now he's telling me that he's not religious. He's telling me that he thinks about death all the time. And I'm thinking, I have two and a half hours to share the gospel with him. And we get to that very first stop, and his friends, very obnoxious friends, get on the train and they're on their way to uh a soccer game or football game. And I was thinking, man, this is such a divine moment. And it wasn't a divine moment in the sense that I did not have two and a half hours to talk to him, and now he didn't want to talk about spiritual things whatsoever when his friends came on board. I was not ashamed, I was ready, I was excited to be able to share with them, but the it just fell short. And then I gave him a why Christianity uh booklet, you know, with it. We need not to be ashamed to your point. Yeah. Why? Why would we?

SPEAKER_03 34:09

I love that. I really think that the shame aspect and and how could how could Jesus turn and be ashamed back is is because it's the recognition that there's something else sitting on our throne. That idolatry, again, is so important to recognize. And so whether, you know, we've talked about the idolatry of of knowledge or wisdom, of the approval of other people, uh, there's the idol of comfort of just not wanting to have hard conversations with people, uh, the idol of career or success if you're in your workplace and and you're afraid that people will pass you up for a promotion because they know you're that Christian, whether that's the you know, the the idol of politics, whether you recognize that your Bible contradicts the group think of the political party you find yourself in, and you just get a little passive for it because you're like, I don't want to be disruptive, I want to be safe within my little political party. What's the solution? The solution to idolatry is not just like pick yourself up by your bootstraps. It is the only way you can tear down an idol is by replacing it with something worthy of worship. Because at all times, something is sitting on the throne room of your heart. The question isn't whether or not you worship, it is what you worship. And the beauty of being able to setting your minds and eyes on Christ is that all of those idols that are causing you to be ashamed of the gospel will completely melt away. I'll give you like one of the, and I love earlier we talked about the idea of being ashamed of your wife, of marriage, right? That's such a great example because that is the relationship between Christ and his church. And I just think back to my wedding day. I remember specifically, probably like most men, uh, being afraid. How am I gonna provide? How am I gonna be a good? I don't, you know, I can barely like get through the day. I'm gonna be a husband of this woman, the spiritual leader for the rest of her life.

SPEAKER_04 36:11

These are the thoughts I had. Did you have a honeymoon? Afterwards, yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 36:16

Why wouldn't I have a honeymoon? Uh but yeah, I just remember having all those insecure thoughts about money, about you know, raising children together, about being a good husband, all of these fears and insecurities. And I specifically remember the moment my wife turned the corner and started walking down the aisle. Yeah, all of those concerns went away. Yeah, that's when you thought about the honeymoon. I looked down the aisle, and yes, I thought where I was gonna be in five hours. No, I looked down the aisle and I saw my wife. I saw the woman I loved looking back at me in love. And to set our minds at Christ is to look at God looking at us in love, and all of those idols of comfort, of reputation, of career, all of those things will no longer matter to you because you're consumed by the beauty of God.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Amen. You know, um I I've always said this truth that that's not in any way, of course, uh unique to me, but that the evangelism is an act of worship. It's a it's the the overflow of a heart that is so consumed by Christ. And and that's the thing, you know, it's like the times we were most passionate about evangelism were those days that surrounded our conversion. When we were that leper that had been touched by Christ and healed, or we were like the the, you know, the the man who was touched by Christ and healed of his demoniac uh possession, and and just Jesus said to him, Stay here and tell others what I've done for you. And he went out and did it. So it's being it's being enamored with him, but over time we just kind of grow diss. I mean it's like imagine being a salesman and you used the product that you were so excited about that it made you want to tell everyone about it, and then you just stop using it. I mean, how excited are you gonna continue to be to tell others about it? And so we have to be partakers of what we're dispensing. What are we dispensing? Come to know the living God, enter into an intimate relationship with him, and then we disconnect. It's gonna affect our eagerness to share the God's.

SPEAKER_09 38:33

It's like you're in a room and everybody has cancer, you've got the cure, and now you're nervous. You want to talk about sports instead. Yeah, let's talk about politics instead. Yeah, right. And I mean, how much more? And and that is like an understatement of the year, you know, with that. We have the words to eternal life that can set somebody free from their bondage and not just heal them physically for the next 20 years, but it is mind-blowing how long of etern how long eternity is.

SPEAKER_02 39:03

You know, Ray, uh, one of the things you often talk about as sort of the cure for our fear of man or being ashamed is gratitude.

SPEAKER_05 39:11

Oh, absolutely. I like to call it the high octane fuel that drives me to do the will of God. And it it it never goes. And um it's as it's as high octane as it was 50-something years ago. I I will never forget what Jesus did to me on the cross. I'll never forget how he took me out of darkness into light, out of death, to life, out of hell, into heaven. And so gratitude explodes within my heart. And if you don't have that, you're like a man instead of driving your vehicle of evangelism, you have to push it. Think of the difference. If if if you're genuinely saved and you've seen the cross, then gratitude will drive that car for you rather than you

Real Evangelism Encounters That Changed Minds

SPEAKER_05 39:53

having to push it. That's that's that'll be a motivation. And so you can say, I delight to do your will, oh my God. Your law is written upon my heart. So evangelism is love and action, it should be a delight, it should be an overflow, like you're saying, uh of uh of concern for the lost. And when I say love and action, it's love for God and love for sinners. And uh I I never never forget that people are going to hell, and that's a horror beyond words. That's one of my greatest motivations. You know?

SPEAKER_02 40:21

Amen. Yeah, so there's that. Um, you know, I've I've cited this so many times, but 2 Peter 1, where it gives that list of virtues. But the first one it says, but also for this give very reason, giving all diligence. And then it says add to your faith, and then it gives a list. But but it begins with diligence, and then he says what? But he who lacks these things is short-sighted even to blindness and has forgotten his purification from his old sins. So if you lack diligence, uh as it relates for our purposes to sharing the gospel, maybe you've forgotten your purification from your old sins. You forgot your redemption when Christ invaded you and changed you and transformed you and set you free, you know. So we need to go back there.

SPEAKER_05 41:04

I think the uh the interesting thing, and the analogy used for sin in scripture is leprosy. None of those ten lepers and the ones here, think back, you were a leper, you're unclean, untouchable. And the thing with leprosy um is that if I got it correctly, is you lose your sense of pain. Correct. And that's what sin does. You don't feel the pain of a conscience. And the reason it's so you think, ah, I'd like to lose my sense of pain. No, that means when you sit down for six hours, you you don't have to adjust yourself, or you don't have to turn over in bed. And when you do that, turn over and back and forth in bed, you're letting your blood flow. And if you the blood doesn't flow, you're gonna get more than the tingling is in the feet. Your flesh is gonna rot, and that's what leprosy does. And when you don't have a tender conscience that turns you away from sin, um you you're gonna bring in rot, rot of the soul, leprosy of the soul, and that's a horror. And uh, that's what God saved us from. Such a horror beyond words.

SPEAKER_02 42:00

Wow, so so well put. Yeah, um, you know, uh, I was I was just thinking about the things that would hold me back in the world from doing certain things in public, and there wasn't very much. Like I was I was the consummate extrovert. I, you know, would rap in front of everyone or anyone.

SPEAKER_05 42:26

Oh my hell you've changed.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Not much. No, there's still sanctifying to do. But but you know, it was like that was that was my passion. You know, I lived for the world, and and we we you know, we get to that place where again the Lord changes us, invades us, but then we let the the opinions of people impact us. And and what is what is that? What does it do for us? What's that saying? We we buy things we don't need with money we don't have to please people we don't like. Is that world, you know, that worldly thing. It's like, what what in the world? You know, like that that whole saying you hear people in the world say, like, I don't care, he doesn't pay my salary, right? You guys have heard that, like, but but for the believer, there's that added element of spiritual warfare as well, you know. And so we know that that's reality, but but we've gotta we've gotta keep fighting.

SPEAKER_05 43:21

I how often have you thought about something you really want and you get it and you think I don't really want this? Like a trophy?

SPEAKER_02 43:27

Oh yeah, like a 400th uh episode celebration, like this job. Yeah, no, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

I I hear what you're saying, right? Yeah, yeah. I love the phrase. It's uh it's you buy things with money, you buy things you don't want with money you don't have to impress people you don't even like. Yeah, that's how it goes. Yeah, that's funny.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

What did I say? Did I say Swahili?

SPEAKER_05 43:49

No, it was right.

SPEAKER_03 43:51

You said it in Swahili or something forward number three.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

You said how Oscar, speak to this verse here Acts 5, 41 to 42. Yeah, go for Oscar.

SPEAKER_09 44:04

Just leave it at that and let me know. Yeah, go ahead, Oscar.

SPEAKER_03 44:06

It's in Acts about five chapters in, comes right after 40. And uh, what follows is Acts 6, which is really important.

SPEAKER_02 44:14

Yeah, and they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. And daily in the temple and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach to the channel.

SPEAKER_05 44:31

So they just get beaten up. It wasn't just suffering shame, did they?

SPEAKER_02 44:34

No, they just beat them. Yeah, they just gotten beaten up.

SPEAKER_05 44:36

So when they say suffering shame, it's also suffering pain as well as the shame.

SPEAKER_03 44:41

Yeah, it's the recognition recognition that we are found in Christ. And when you are found in Christ, you're going to be treated as as Christ was treated. And so for them, there and we we do this again. There's so much parallel tail here to sports and other things. Like when we are treated like the people that we adore, we get excited about that. And so these disciples had their minds on their Lord and Savior. They saw him beaten, they saw him ridiculed, they saw him in prison. They saw him spit on. They saw him shamed. And this is Peter, a fisherman. These are lawyers. These are blue-collar workers that had just mundane, boring lives with no purpose or meaning. And now they are treated in the same way that their Lord and Savior were treated. To them, there was a great honor in being treated in that kind of a way.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

That's awesome. Sorry, Oscar. I'm listening to you wax eloquent on this powerful truth. And as you're talking about, you know, people and bad negative and mark sweat point in a ring.

SPEAKER_09 45:55

He's jabbing me, he jabbed me in the side. You sound childish, telling easy. He jammed me in the side.

SPEAKER_02 46:03

Yeah. Yeah, I know, man. It's uh it's crazy when you when you contemplate like how things have changed, right? Like inspiration. They saw Jesus, they watched him go to the cross. In fact, he told them. And remember, when he would tell them that, either they would rebuff him, like Peter did, not so, Lord, or they didn't understand, it says. But then they they see it and it all clicks. And he's he's their forerunner, he's their example, right? You guys know, like what we have today in our world is so foreign to the ancient world where you had kings. And and the key thing about the king is he would go into battle. He was in the he was in the heat of the battle. He was he was leading the charge, and that inspired his troops. Our king is with us. That's right. In fact, what when if you remember when when the people asked for a king, uh, and they and you know, Saul eventually became their king, and they said, a king who will fight our battles for us. That was what a king. Today the president sits, you know, he sits in the situation room with a screen giving commands, but there's no skin in the game in one sense, right? But in fact, uh, in that book, Atomic Habits that I mentioned, they were talking about how one guy said, What we need to do is go to a president and say, Hey, um, before you hit that red button, uh, we just want you to stab this person in the heart. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, wait, what? Then it becomes real. Like this is what this is what's happening, you know. But but Jesus went into the heat of battle and he did it, and that that roused the disciples eventually, where they realized, wow, you know, he's worthy of our lives.

SPEAKER_09 47:44

Have you have you this is common, right? I mean, we go out, and before we open up our mouths, you know, there's this slight reluctance. But then you engage in a conversation, and it's like that reluctance is thrown into the wings. Yeah. And and or think of the scenario where somebody is, you're maybe a little embarrassed in the midst of the situation, and then somebody starts ragging on God, ragging on the Bible. And all of a sudden, it's like you have the boldness of a lion, and you're ready to die in that moment. And that very there's nothing more important than just proclaiming the beauty of Christ in that moment. It doesn't matter what happened 30 seconds ago, everything is just thrown to the wind. And we have this power that comes down upon us to be his witnesses, as Acts uh 18, I think it is, or 128, uh that says, and we have that dunamous power, that dynamic power, and it doesn't matter what happens to us. What are you gonna do? Try to kill me? Good luck. I have an insurance plan that is out of this world, and nothing can happen to me unless God says

Replacing Idols With Worship And Gratitude

SPEAKER_09 48:53

perfect.

SPEAKER_02 48:54

Who's your agent? Yeah. Oh, go ahead, right?

SPEAKER_05 48:59

Oh, that old rugged cross, so despised by the world, has a wondrous attraction to me. For the dear Lamb of God left his glory above to bear to dark Calvary. Uh what a beautiful hymn that is, the old rugged cross. But it's so meaningful, it's the cross is despised by the world because it's an emblem of suffering and shame. But for me, it's got a wondrous, wondrous attraction because that's how God commended his love and opened the door to eternity through that old rugged cross. I should have sung that. You should whistle it. That's it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Can you whistle it in an Indian accent? Yeah, that's what I was wondering when we had talked. I think was that on the other episode where we talked about um apple pie, Australian or American. Only applying. Like when you guys chew it, do you chew it in a down-under accent? Like, is it heard?

SPEAKER_05 49:53

Yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

They chew it. It came out Indian. I'm craving a meatball.

SPEAKER_05 50:00

You guys are so easily distracted by it.

SPEAKER_02 50:02

Uh yeah, so so guys, what what are ways, practically speaking, that we can get to that place where we we we don't give in to being ashamed? So one of them we talked about, you know, is gratitude. The other is remembering that our forerunner did it for us. I would say another one is being consumed with the reality of eternity and that this world is fading. Mark, I love what you highlighted about the people's names. Like everybody is going to die. That person is made up of the same stuff you're made up of. And so do that. Now, Oscar, is there a place where we often talk about look, you don't have to be a theologian to share the gospel, right? But is there a place where knowledge can give us more confidence in terms of like being capable? Because I think one of the reasons we don't want to share the gospel is we don't want to get stumped. We don't want to look stupid. We don't want to not have an answer. So do you do you find a place where you would encourage people, hey, do grow though and learn?

SPEAKER_03 51:03

Yeah, absolutely. I think there's two parts to that. There's the reality that it you should put in effort into the things that you care most about. And it's not that hard. I remember having a conversation with a guy years ago where he was amazed at all of like the availability of apologetics and theology. And he was like, I could never get there. But then I'm sitting in a room with him, hearing him rattle off every stat line for every fantasy football player that he had possible, you know? In other words, like what where we put our attention, our our attention uh dictates our affection. And so to grow in your knowledge and preparedness, let your affection for God dictate your attention. And it doesn't, first off, let me just say it doesn't take a lot. It will give you confidence. And then finally, the confidence of knowing you don't need all the answers is super important. Yeah, the confidence of knowing, in our context, when we travel and preach or we at like we are at a popular destination, it's a one-and-done conversation. But it's actually better that the vast majority of evangelism is not one and done. It's the vast majority of evangelism are the people in your life, in your workplace, in your school, in your family, in your neighborhood. And so for you to look at those people and go, I actually don't know the answer to that question. But can can we meet up next week for coffee and let me see what I find? That's a great question. That kind of evangelism is incredibly powerful because you are investing, you're you're treating, you're telling them subconsciously, you're not just a notch on my belt. I care deeply about this conversation that I want to walk you through.

SPEAKER_05 52:45

Drink coffee, that's all you want. So I have to go.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Make sure it's at a good coffee shop or don't show up.

SPEAKER_02 52:50

Yeah, it's good. But Ray, also, I I heard you recently talking about how, in fact, uh, something that we're working on right now, which is a new basic training course. We're revamping our training course. And you you were doing your segment and you were talking about how you you have answers because you've engaged people so much that you've you've sharpened your skills.

SPEAKER_05 53:13

Yeah, it's muscle memory. Uh, you know, our coin that we're having printed up, that uh coin for the Olympics. I've been doing muscle memory on my hands. When I first started sticking it through my fingers, I could not do that, but now it's coming naturally. I thought, this is just crazy that it's muscle memory. And that's exactly what happens when you share the gospel again and again and again. Meet an atheist who says this, we just says spec to him, it just comes like that. Study to show yourself approved. A workman needs not be ashamed. Need not be ashamed. If you are ashamed, it's because you've never studied to show yourself approved. We've got an evidence study bible to teach you how to answer these questions. Two of the most commonly asked questions the Christian faith, a whole stack of apologetics that's been created just for you to study.

SPEAKER_02 54:01

Wow. That's so good, Ray. You mentioned that gold coin. I wish we had one. Oh, we do. Oh, look at that. Oh, we do have one.

SPEAKER_05 54:10

Well, I was gonna bring mine today, and I thought, oh, it's just so cool.

SPEAKER_02 54:14

I love it, Ray. Yeah, so exciting. Uh Paul says this in Philippians, according Philippians 1 20, according to my earnest expectation and hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life or by death.

SPEAKER_05 54:37

I mean You should put out a Bible verse where everything is emphasized. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 54:43

Emphasis? Emphasis. According to my earnest expression, hope that in nothing. I mean, look at look at these descriptives that Paul's giving. I mean, what he's preceding his is his declarations with. In nothing I shall be ashamed, but with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life or by death. Oh. I almost got poked in the eye.

SPEAKER_05 55:07

How does someone description I'm just like the emphasis Bible by Neil Swain?

SPEAKER_02 55:14

But how does how does someone reading something like this deny the reality of the dynamic that this person was possessed by Christ, especially when he was trying to kill Christians? Those words are so divinely touched, you know. Yeah. Um, whether by life or by death, all that I care is that he be magnified, and in nothing will I be ashamed.

SPEAKER_05 55:38

I rejoice at your word as one who finds great treasure, Osama says. And how God's word changes. Before I was a Christian, it meant nothing to me. Dry old history book. But it came alive the moment I came alive.

SPEAKER_02 55:51

Amen. Mark, God has not given us a spirit of fear, 2 Timothy 1.7, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

SPEAKER_09 56:00

Yeah, I love that last part especially of a sound mind. We that we were out of our mind, we were beside ourselves, and now God has uh allowed us to think clearly. That you'll never think more clearly than when your eyes are on the Lord, as you're meditating through God's word. When if you want to get rid of the chaos and the commotion

Practical Ways To Grow Boldness

SPEAKER_09 56:23

and the chirping from the audience and the crowds of the people, it's like open up God's word. And for that, as our Ken Hughes says it, it becomes our ultimate sanity. Otherwise, you go insane in a world that is insane.

SPEAKER_03 56:39

Yeah, so true. I just, I just recall, and I'm sorry for the sports metaphors for those who don't like sports, but um, I remember watching a a video, I think it was of Kobe Bryant, and he had just gotten done playing a game where he was getting booed, just absolutely booed. And uh the person interviewing him was like, How do you how do you like sound that out? And he goes, I don't. I love it. Yeah, it feels like it fires me up in that same way. Like when people are ridiculing you for proclaiming the gospel, like, why should it fire us up? Because the the person they're rejecting is the person they find in you. It should bring you confidence that you are in Christ.

SPEAKER_09 57:22

He talks about, you know, there's nothing that's shouted louder than when the crowd was going crazy, and then he shoots and he makes a shot, and then there's just silence over the crowd that he just kind of paused and take in that silence.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

Like, wow, look at that. Easy to know what this is, I think it's Peter. If you are reproached for the name of Christ, happy are you for the spirit of God and of glory rests upon you. That verse came alive to me many years ago when I used to open air preach in Christchurch, New Zealand when I had horrible, nasty heckless spitting out venom, and I'd start laughing. I couldn't help but I say I'd I seriously say to them, stop it, stop it. I just feel it makes me so joyful, and I couldn't preach because I felt so joyful. Because happy are you when the when you're approached for the name of Christ, for the spirit of God and of glory rests upon you. So I couldn't see what was happening, but I could certainly feel it in the spirit.

SPEAKER_02 58:15

So good. Yeah, Mark, you know, you highlighted in 2 Timothy 1.7 that you know, a sound mind. And I think of the the guy who was possessed by legion after Christ touched him. When you think of this guy, like he was the untouchable of his day. Who wanted to get near this guy? He was out in the wilderness howling like a madman, cutting himself, ripping up you know, shackles and stuff. And and I love the description of him after Christ touched him. And he's it says they found him clothed and seated and in his right mind.

SPEAKER_09 58:49

Isn't that neat? And it's the first one that Jesus sent out to share the good news, right? I mean, he wanted to get inside the boat to go back away from the sea of uh Galilee across from Decapolis, and he says, No, go home to your family and tell them what great things God has done. In a sound mind, now go and share.

SPEAKER_02 59:06

Yeah, and it says, and he did, and he did. And so, friends, may we do the same. Look, there is nothing to be ashamed. And look, if we're gonna be ashamed, let's just let's just quit this thing. Let's just go eat, drink, be merry. Tomorrow we die, and just whatever.

SPEAKER_05 59:22

In and out.

SPEAKER_02 59:23

Yeah, all in and out. Ah, yeah, in and out, yeah. But we we need to we need to just stand up and say, no, I'm not going to be ashamed. This is my savior, he's my redeemer. And look, we don't do it like so that we could prove something. We don't do it so that we could feel good. We do it because God is worthy and because people are going to hell. And we are byproducts of the gospel. We've been saved and changed and transformed through it. So don't live a wasted life claiming to be a Christian, refraining from all of these, you know, things that you can indulge in, at least to have some pleasure before you die. How foolish. Either go all out in the world or go all out for Christ.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:05

Amen.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:06

And uh, if you're his, I know that you're stirred too. Just know this when you're ashamed of the gospel, believe it or not, and this is what blows my mind. Not that we're ashamed of the gospel, what blows my mind is he sympathizes with that weakness. That's the gospel, friends. He sympathizes with your weakness, but he doesn't tell you to stay there in it. He says, Come boldly to the throne of grace to receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. So when we're acting ashamed of the gospel and we're falling short in our call to make him known, don't run away from the Lord. Run toward him and say, Lord, you told me to come boldly. I I need mercy, I need grace right now to help me in this time of need. He knows your desire to want to represent him, he knows your frailty, he sympathizes and feels with you. So run to him. Amen. Amen. All right, friends, number 400 in the history books. Forever. Maybe it be a hundred thousand years.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:10

Was there a word we learned?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:12

Um, Zancha.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:14

Parumamai.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:15

Zancha. Can you say that right? Zancha.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:19

Parumamai.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

Yeah. So don't forget, friends, the school of biblical evangelism book and online. Like, subscribe, share, all at podcast at livingwaters.com. Send us your thoughts, send us your questions, send us your suggestions. Ooh, that rhymed. Thank

Final Charge To Run Toward Grace

SPEAKER_02 1:01:33

you for joining us, friends. We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters podcast where we have no idea. For the 400th time what we're doing.