Neurodivergent Leadership w/ Peter Mann | Ep. 84

In this episode David and Gary talk with CEO of Oransi, Peter Mann. They discuss the importance of embracing neurodivergence in the workplace and how certain styles of leadership and strategy reap the biggest rewards…

Links:

Peter Mann LinkedIn

Oransi Website

Oransi LinkedIn

___________________________________

Submit Your Questions to:

hello@thebigpixel.net

OR comment on our YouTube videos! - Big Pixel, LLC - YouTube

Our Hosts

David Baxter - CEO of Big Pixel

Gary Voigt - Creative Director at Big Pixel

The Podcast

David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.

In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.

Contact Us

hello@thebigpixel.net

919-275-0646

www.thebigpixel.net

FB | IG | LI | TW | TT : @bigpixelNC

Big Pixel

1772 Heritage Center Dr

Suite 201

Wake Forest, NC 27587

Music by: BLXRR

Transcript

David: 0:00

Hey everyone, welcome to the biz dev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host and I am joining joining. I'm joined Halo joining something, something like that. Gary Boyd is with us per usual. I will not make fun of him this week. Well, I mean, it's so easy, but it is his two year anniversary officially with big pixel. So I'll be nice to him. Congrats for putting up with me for two years.

Gary: 0:33

Yeah, I mean, it's been trying, like, yeah, I struggle, but I get through. I feel like I should, you know, get like a chip or something like I've survived two years sticker, a sticker or a t shirt, at least a t shirt. T shirt. Yeah, just a mask.

David: 0:53

The problem is, I'm gonna tell Gary, this, as of now that you've hit two years, I have to fire you tomorrow. So it's just you know, so this is kind of a farewell podcast for you as well. So congrats and see you later.

Gary: 1:07

Well, should I just keep going?

David: 1:09

Yeah, you have to finish the podcast. You don't get fired till tomorrow. Okay, so don't let it don't get weak or anything because Peter needs a good podcast out of you before your last day.

Gary: 1:18

Totally out of the blue. But I was in a situation with a pretty easy previous employer where it was like, Hey, we know we kind of just let you go this morning. But if you can finish up that one project before you leave. No joke. That is awesome.

David: 1:34

I'm sure you did a fabulous job on that last project to share an effort. Not effort, right? We are joined by Peter man who is the CEO of urgency. And I will tell you he is our first client we have ever had on the podcast. It was complete coincidence. But Peter is joining us that is a fun title. You get to have our first client ever and we're not going to talk about that specifically. But it was coincidence that we reached

Gary: 2:01

out if he had to, you know air dirty laundry about working with us on our podcast.

David: 2:06

Don't hire big pixel. They're not great.

Gary: 2:09

Glad you guys got me on because man, I got some stuff to say. I've been

David: 2:13

wanting to get this off my chest for a long time. So how are you Peter?

Peter: 2:17

I'm doing great. Yeah, how are you?

David: 2:20

I cannot complain. I cannot complain. We just got back. We had a fun weekend. We I had all of our employees. Almost all all the important ones now. I'm just kidding. Sorry, Chris, you don't kill me. Were the ones that can be good. For our 10 year anniversary party. I got to meet some of the people I hadn't met before. I've met most of the people beforehand. And now I've met all but one I guess there's one left that I have not met that's Christie. But it was really really nice. We went to Gatlinburg and had we're in one of those big old houses up there in the mountains. And it was lovely just hanging out. We didn't do anything specifically. I will say I've never been to Gatlinburg that is Myrtle Beach without the beach. That is an intense town

Gary: 3:08

or anything from Florida. It's Kissimmee. Without the flatness, it's Kissimmee with mountains in the background

David: 3:14

it we did the scenic coaster, which I've never done one of those before. It's basically a very slow roller coaster that goes up into a mountain and kind of just spins around and stuff. They use a lot of gravity rather than chains and stuff. It was very cool. My wife, I have a video of my wife getting mad at me because I was filming it, which you're not supposed to do by the way. I'm filming because it's like it's slow. It's no big deal. And she's like, are you holding on to the to the rail? Oh, stop it stop recording right now. This is this all on this video? Like, it's fine. It's fine. No, it's good stuff. Anyway. So that was a lot of fun. It was good seeing everybody for the first time. But that's because one of the things has been a remote company is you have this weird thing where you don't know your employees. And that's that strange. Are you guys all are like Peter, how's your company structured? Are you all in an office? Are you all over?

Peter: 4:06

Yes. So we have a we're kind of a hybrid. We've got 2020 some odd folks here in Virginia in our factory, you know, office building. And then we've got probably another dozen kind of spread across the country that do more like marketing, customer service, sales, stuff like that.

David: 4:28

So have you met all of them physically at any point in time? Or is there some you've never met?

Peter: 4:32

100% Yeah, I mean, we're going to start manufacturing here this summer and you know, bring everybody in so I'll get there's just a few people I haven't met in person but you know, it's kind of weird, you know, talking to him on Zoom or what Google meat or whatever for couple of years. Ever physically, you know, seeing the person.

David: 4:55

Yeah, it's kind of funny. So Matt, one of our devs he's been on the podcast once long too. Have a go. I met him. He was one of the ones I'd never met before. He's quite large. Like he's six, three or something.

Gary: 5:06

Yeah, I would say that is the biggest surprise when you meet someone face to face in person after seeing them on Zoom. Because usually like a video conference, you can't really estimate height and size. But yeah, and then you see them in purpose or in person. And hold on. Yeah, that's like seven foot for some Not really.

David: 5:27

It was funny as I have broad shoulders, so on Zoom, I look large. It's just how I am big melon head and big shoulders. And then they meet me. And it's always disappointing because five, six, so it's like, whoa, that's not what I saw coming. I get that every time. I think my favorite story is this was an employee as a potential client. I met him in person, we talked a couple of zooms. And he was like, I feel like do I feel like you should be called little pixel, not big pixel. Oh, that's false advertising man. Like, that's rough dude. That's like, but the little pixel just doesn't have the ring.

Gary: 6:12

No one wanted to hide the little game on your phone.

David: 6:16

So anyway, so we've been talking about all sorts of things in the last several weeks. And one of the things I've been really intrigued by talking to leaders and CEOs, like you, is the concept of leadership itself. And what does that when I say leadership? What does that mean to you in a practical manner? Not the book answer? What does it mean to you? What do you try to do? As the leader of your company?

Peter: 6:45

Maybe I'm a bit of an anomaly. You know, I've I've seen some entrepreneurs on some shows talking, and they're all like, you know, not that I'm not competitive, but they're just, you know, pretty high ego very, you know, kind of like, Yeah, we're gonna crush them. And you know, and I, you know, I want to win, and I'm competitive, but I'm not, you know, kind of wired that way. I'm a bit more like humble and strategic. And, to me, leadership is about getting everybody on the same page, getting everybody aligned, having a strategy that, you know, allows us to win, and letting people do their thing, not micromanaging folks. It's not getting up in, you know, I was watching, I don't know, if you want succession. And they honestly didn't know, oh, yeah, they had the guy, I guess it's like the Murdoch family ish, kind of a story, you know, and they get up and they scream and do all that. And, you know, I'm just, that's not how I am. It's more of, you know, give, give people the tools, they need to be successful and point people in the right direction, and everybody pulled together into me, you know, that's leadership, but leadership in the way that I'm naturally, you know, wired to be.

David: 8:04

So we've interviewed, I don't know how many 30 CEOs now, something like that. And that attitude is more common than shows and books. And YouTube would lead you to believe, right? We're on YouTube. It's all hustle, hustle, hustle, kill everything, drag it back to your cave,

Gary: 8:25

get up at 4am Meditate exercise, do this, do that. Read this. And then yeah, none of it's realistic.

David: 8:32

I, when I'm getting to the point where and it's this is kind of a fun notch under the belt as it were because I've interviewed lots of different leaders. And they all have different ways of doing it. But I would say predominantly, I don't, we might have met one guy who kind of sang that tune as it were. And, okay, I mean, we didn't, my job is not to argue with you on the podcast, even if I'm disagreeing, but he has a different style.

Gary: 8:59

So we just got to hear the different responses

Peter: 9:01

we largely get with Gary.

David: 9:04

Gary, that's right. Yeah, that's very, that's where I get all my frustration. From here. I don't need him here. I just, you know, we put him on the thumbnails because he looks good. And then as time I just yell at him, that's just how it works. But it's it's interesting, because most people who I've said found that our leaders especially and maybe this is the difference. The people we're meeting, generally speaking are pretty successful, right? Or companies are, we've met some onesies and twosies. And those are wonderful to talk to. But they're figuring themselves out, right. But most of the people we've interviewed are leaving larger companies more successful. They're not brand new, right. And I'm wondering, and I have no proof of this, but anecdotally, it makes me think that that hustle concept isn't as successful as they want it to appear. like Elon Musk is probably the poster child of that right that hustle, work 24/7 I have no life, work, work, work work. I have a bed test Tesla and Twitter and whatever. And he's an anomaly. I think now he's successful, but I don't think anyone wants to emulate that.

Peter: 10:13

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's, it's how you're wired. Like, you know, I think it's about playing to your strengths. You know, I get how Elon Musk can work that many hours in a meeting for me, I don't have a ton of hobbies. And so I, I work similar hours as he does, just because that's where I get my energy from. I just don't have the bravado and the screaming and the, you know, chest thumping, and I'm a great visionary, you know, all that kind of stuff, which is, which is typical of probably 80 plus percent of entrepreneurs. I mean, that's, that's kind of the norm. I just don't know, you know, but, you know, I'll quietly like outwork anybody. And

David: 10:56

that brings up a good point, though, leaders are often the one who set the tone, right? So if the boss is working late, oftentimes, it makes other people work late, which I get the feeling. That's not what you want to inspire. But you're are one who, admittedly, works a lot. How do you balance that? How do you tell your team? I'm here till 8pm? You don't have to be?

Peter: 11:18

Yeah, I mean, I think everyone needs to be themselves and do what they need to do. Like, even though like I say, work those hours, I'm not like in the office all the time doing those hours, I'm, I'm not the first one here. And I'm not the last one to leave. But you know, I work at home or I'll be, you know, driving thinking about something or, you know, having a meeting with somebody as I'm driving home. And I know, that doesn't work for most people. I mean, for me, it's it's about the results. And how you get there is irrelevant. Like if you work a ton of hours, or you don't work a ton of hours, it really doesn't matter. It's like, are we accomplishing what we need to accomplish? And however you get there, I'm doesn't doesn't matter.

David: 12:05

One of the things I've had to do regarding that specifically for big pixel was there, there have been I go in phases of when I work a lot versus not depend on what's going on at home. And I have to make sure that my guys know that hey, if I'm slacking you at 8pm 9pm. I don't expect a response. Right? You can totally ignore me. And that's fine. But I had to tell them that because some people were feeling pressure, like whoa, boss is asking me a question. I need to make sure I have my phone on me so I can get back to know you know, after six ish, depending on when some of our guys come in late, right? They come in late work late, fine, but after your core hours are done. That's not the expectation unless something's on fire, and then I'll probably call or text but that's pretty rare. But that's something we've had to work out in our culture because there are times where I am working late for various reasons. Sometimes I've just bored my family's busy and I'm working but we have to say hey, ignore me when I'm after hours and that that chilled people out some

Peter: 13:12

Yeah, I had to learn I used to do that and then I kind of you know kind of learned that doesn't that's not received well by some some people and so I've learned in Slack to schedule the Meet the messages to arrive like Monday morning when they come in.

David: 13:28

Oh, nice. Yeah, I don't think I've ever done that. That's a good idea. Yeah, you can schedule

Peter: 13:32

it to arrive at whatever time do they want? And what day Yeah, and so like when people come they Monday is like June June, like all the all the things I've thought about over the weekend or hitting at eight or nine in the morning on Monday and people slack, Slack messages.

David: 13:48

Can you imagine you come in at 9am and your boss that's a lot, man. Whoa. That's funny. I just I find it so interesting. The practicalities of leadership versus just mean everyone's read the some books and everyone would say really nice quotes.

Gary: 14:08

There's lots of motivational posters and stuff. But in this day, David also mentioned numerous times in the past that I'm assuming here, Peter, that you probably started the company a while ago and played a lot of different roles. You didn't just start a CEO. So the practice of actually starting to slowly give away some of your job in order to do the job that needs to be done. And then still, like you said, play to your strengths. How was that transition?

Peter: 14:40

Yeah, I mean, it's been an evolution. I mean, there's certain things I just do not like to do so something has I was pretty, pretty happy to get to the size where it can bring folks in and let them do it. Like customer service, like answering the phone and solving a problem with a customer even though I get it super important. I did it personally Only the first year or two, it just wears me down, it just sucks the energy. I'm just not set up for that particular job, even though it's super important, you know, when we started, I outsourced a lot of the functions, but customer service was one that did not outsource. And so those were the first hires a lot of marketing functions, you can outsource to agencies, and kind of get get good results for for a lower cost than hiring a person. But at some point, you get to a point where those costs may not scale properly, depending upon what, what the function is. And so, you know, for me, it's it's more of the mindset of, you know, having goals and figuring out like where you want to get to, and then how do you get there. And I'm kind of naturally, I guess, set up to where I can do a lot of the jobs and I have done pretty much all the jobs. Yeah, but I know I'm not the best person for those jobs. And you know, if there's someone that can do it better, it's not the best use of time to do all those things anyways, it's going to hold you back. And so you have to be able to let things go and let other people step up and, you know, do the functions otherwise, you know, you're never going to grow as an order, you're going to be you're going to top out as an organization. Because there's only so many hours in the day that you can do things. And so I think once you realize that, it's like you have no choice but to bring people in that, you know, can do certain functions.

David: 16:39

The follow up to that is what, how was it when you have to start giving away the things you are good at? That's been the hardest for me, right? Because you have things that only the leader can do. And you've got to focus on those things. But some of the operational things, for instance, that you are good at and enjoy doing. But you've got to do this leader stuff, you got to go and do CEO stuff that's taking a lot of time. So you've got to hire in for that. How was that transition for you?

Peter: 17:09

Yeah, again, it? Yeah, I was I was, you know, so before I started an entrepreneurship, I worked for two Fortune 100 tech companies, Tech Data, and Dell. And those are monstrous organizations with just, I don't know how many 1000s of people. And so that's a machine. And so to go from that to being like it first a one shop entrepreneur, it's like, you're you do everything. And so there's a point where it's like, it was almost a relief, to not have to do all of these, these functions, it just gets, nobody is set up to do all of those jobs really well. And so for me, it's more of the success of the company depends on, you know, getting out of the way, I think, you know, when I look at, you know, so I, I never took a business class in my life, but I kind of learned how operations and marketing and finance works through those larger companies. And I see how they're organized and structured. And so starting off as an entrepreneur is like, how do I work towards that. And part of it naturally, is just not doing everything. And bringing in good people that, you know, can do as good or better job than then you can

David: 18:28

I want to transition a little bit and talk about Iran tea and how we got started initially. So you are the founder, or were you brought in you are? How did you get into that? I mean, you had this idea. I'm an entrepreneur, I want to make air filters. How did that get started?

Peter: 18:43

Yeah, so I mean, I back up a little bit. So I was at Dell, during the.com bubble burst, which was, Tech was not a fun place to be, we were just doing round after round the layoffs. And so I co founded an E commerce business with another guy, I was in Austin, Texas at the time. And, you know, we built that from zero to, I don't know, 14 million or so. And then I sold my part of that to create urgency. And I was interested in, you know, creating a brand that was focused on indoor air quality, because my son, you know, when he was an infant struggled with asthma, and that was pretty impactful. And, you know, and that's kind of how it got started. So I you know, I had this seed funding, so I wasn't having to go out and raise money, it was more just like, get the business started. Get some products designed and produced and then set up the website and start selling. And so when I was at Dell, one of my jobs was, you know, developing functionality for dell.com did some of that previous business and, you know, product launch, doing marketing support for product. So I kind of learned like the nuts and bolts for how like big companies do it. And there's a process and a structure for that. So I had confidence that, you know, little me with competing against mom and pops for the most part, you know, when you when you're at Dell, and you're competing with hp, and then you go and you're competing with mom and pops in their early 2000s, it's, it's like, it's like you had a rec league, you know. And so you even though I didn't know how everything worked, you can kind of figure things out. I mean, the business is business. And, you know, I've kind of just slowly built it over time as a direct to consumer ecommerce business. You know, back in the, in the early days, in the early 2000s, you could advertise on Google for five cents a click, I mean, it was like super cheap. I mean, it's not that way anymore. But now, and so, you know, in it kind of grew. And then when COVID hit, the air purifier market just exploded, because you know, there's more demand and supply, when you know, people are trying to clean the air and get rid of this virus.

David: 21:12

So how do the two companies combined? I mean, you've got your air filters and your motors? Are they going to start using those motors in your filters? Are you just making totally new products?

Peter: 21:21

We're making completely to restore, we're making completely new products, but with the electric motors that we're making in house?

David: 21:29

So are you involved in that engineering design thing? I mean, there's involved because you're the boss I get, but I'm just are you an engineer? Are you but or is that this partner and other people at your company? Who are really

Peter: 21:42

Yeah, so when we merged on, you know, equal partners with, with Moe who, the motor guy, I'm more involved on the marketing, product design standpoint, like the aesthetics of it, and the usability, user interface and all that. He's more of the engineering, the internals, the all the components, making sure everything is manufacturable, and quality control and all that. So it kind of comes together. It's interesting, where design and engineering meet is where all the compromises are made.

David: 22:16

Boy, that's the truth right here.

Gary: 22:18

When design and development, I mean, that's where the compromise is made.

David: 22:23

It's funny, we, me and Gary, he's in charge of all of our designs. And the when the designers and the developers meet, is I mean, they're, they love each other, but boy, that can create some sparks, because neither of them has not come from a place of respect, right? I respect what you do. But both are looking at each other going well, my parts more important, right? And so they they butted heads, and because you know, it's kind of function, it's got to be gorgeous, it's raw, and then they this fight. And it's really, sometimes I'm involved in that. And just I'm just throwing meat into the pit and watching it happen, because it's fun. But it's just really interesting to to I think that's a universal, it's like sales versus ops, those guys are always going to fight. Because yeah, sales job is to make everyone uncomfortable. Because they're growing the company. That's the nature of what you do, and ops have to make it happen. Right? So that is an inherent fight. It's a healthy fight, it shouldn't be there. Because if the sales guys are doing their job, then they're making the operations guys get better. By definition, right. And the same with design and development. If a designer is doing a good job, then the development not easier. But it's better. It's a better product at the end, and everyone respects that. But getting there can be super painful.

Peter: 23:46

Yeah, and oftentimes, what one side wants to do makes the other side's piece worse. Right? And that's kind of rare. I think, where the conflict is, is like how do you how do you compromise on that, or at least get everybody on the same page, so you understand the implications of like, what you're trying to do, like how much of how that impacts the other side? Because I think what naturally happens is like if you're an engineer, you see things from an engineering centric perspective. And if you're a designer, you see things from a design perspective, and that's the most important part of it. And it's it's like how do you get to where you kind of see both as equally important and and figure out you know, you know, some cases you defer to one side and some the other side, and sometimes you kind of meet in the middle,

David: 24:37

changing gears again, because I want to talk about something that is near and dear to your heart, because I've seen your LinkedIn posts and stuff like that. You speak often on creating a workplace that is I'm not sure the right term to say here but for autistic use employees and to give them a comfortable place to work and Live. And so I wanted to just talk to you a little bit about that. Because I find that really interesting. It's not something I have any experience in myself. And so I want I mean, in development, there's, there's been a classic joke that developers through history have probably been somewhere autistic spectrum forever. And just no one ever knew it. Right, just because we didn't have that. And if you've ever worked with developers, you can kind of understand they're always, you know, they're a different breed. And so I mean, but your that's a real personal thing for you. And I'm curious, where does that come from? And and what would you recommend to companies who are trying to have an open environment?

Peter: 25:37

Yeah, I mean, I think in a sense, the bigger umbrella is they call it neuro diversity, which is, you know, it's more than just autism, it can be ADHD can be dyslexia. I mean, for me, and, you know, I think the vast majority of autistic adults, like you're late diagnosed, I grew up, I was in school in the 70s, and 80s. And I know, in the 70s, the diagnosis rate was like one in 2500, in the CDC came out, and so they were diagnosing people with like, very high support needs. That you know, and when they say autism spectrum, it's a kind of spectrum on multiple dimensions. And all it is, is is a different way of thinking, perceiving, and socializing. And then there can be co occurring conditions which can affect cognition speech, you could have ADHD, and there's a whole slew of other things. But you know, if you go through the diagnostics, it's, you know, you can meet people that are that are autistic, and you may not realize that they're, that they're autistic children. It has nothing to do with IQ,

Gary: 26:47

or would you be able to almost like, I wouldn't say diagnose, but have you met people, but you're kind of in the back your head, they might be on the spectrum a little bit, and they might not even know it? Yep. Just from their behaviors and your manual mannerisms?

Peter: 27:04

Yeah. 100% Yeah, the routines sensory sensitivity. That stuff. It's, it's, yeah, there's people I'm very, you know, other entrepreneurs that I know that I'm like, pretty, pretty positive, they're autistic and may or may not mean may or may not recognize and I know Silicon Valley is like called the mecca of autism, because it's just, you know, programmers and tech folks, it's, you know, higher percentage is probably double the percentage of folks there. And in Europe, they had the same thing where there's some tech centers, you see a lot more autistic folks.

Gary: 27:39

Yeah, actually, where I live here in Central Florida. On the Space Coast, we have a very high percentage, because it is literally scientists and engineers. Yeah.

Peter: 27:49

Yeah. And so the CDC came out recently, and now they said, they're, it's up to one in 36. Wow. Okay. So like, when I was in school, it was one in 2500. Now, it's one in 36. And so what happens is, like kids are being diagnosed, and then their parents are like, I'm just like them. I thought that they're autistic as well, because it's, it's 80% genetic. Oh, really? Okay. It's not, you know, this, whatever. And so what's interesting is, there's this whole, like generations of people that have never even been diagnosed, that are walking around autistic and don't know they're autistic. Because you can't go from one and 2500 to one and 36. It was a mass event. Yeah, and the one in 36, they're diagnosing eight year olds. And so if you were, you know, if you grew up before the 2000s, and you weren't very high support needs, you were not diagnosed and just the science just wasn't there. And so, in for me, it's just been like whole, it's like,

David: 28:55

Do you reckon recommend, like, if you take the kid out of it, which becomes very obvious if your child is diagnosed? Good chance, right? But let's just say you're, you know, you're kind of quirky or you're, you know, you have some of these things, but you may or may not know it, right? Is that something that you recommend adults do for? And why I guess is the question,

Gary: 29:21

Do meaningless, get diagnosed, get

David: 29:23

diagnosed? Yeah. To to find out like, if you are you just, you know, you just don't you're sensitive to XY and Z, that doesn't necessarily mean you're autistic. But once you go find out, right, that is,

Peter: 29:34

yeah, I mean, for me, it's pretty, pretty life changing, in that you go back and you relive your life's events or the milestones, major milestones, and it's like you see things through a completely different lens. You're like, oh, that's why I struggled here or why I did well, there. I mean, it's why I can just, you know, I have the ability to hyper focus, and it's a common thing among autistic folks. And I know that like When I get in the zone, or I'm dialed in, I can shift into a higher gear, and just block out everything that's going off on around me. And I know, that's not normal. And, and I can do it for hours. And you know, in and I don't have a lot of hobbies, you tend to have restricted interests, I like work. And I like marketing. And I like and so for me working is, is where I get my dopamine from, it's like a social person going to a party. Like, imagine getting that in social interaction, but feeling that from your work. And so it's I don't know, if I'm necessarily smarter than anyone. Like, it's like, I'm just wired to put in tons of time and work. And Elon Musk, I think is the same way. Where it's like, it's not crazy that he can work 80 to 100 hours a week, if that's where you get your dopamine from. Yeah, that's what Yeah, and and the challenge with like the autism diagnosis is it's really geared to kids, like when I. So what happened with me is my wife was watching the CBS Morning Show, and they had a woman that was autistic, and she described her traits. And she's like, You need to see this. I watched it. And I was like, Oh, that is me. And then I went online. And there's a number of online assessments you can take. There's one of the best one is the 50 question. I don't know, AQ test or something? It's, it's just your thing. It was It's developed by this guy, Simon Baron Cohen. He's related to Sacha Baron Cohen was I know that name. Okay. Yeah, he's this Cambridge Professor that's, you know, does a lot of research into autism. So he has a 50 question, test. And, you know, the typical person scores, I guess, 16 to 18. They have, you know, some autistic type traits, on average, but the autistic people tend to score above 30. And I took it and I score to 43. I was like, Oh, that's a sign. And then I, you know, I took a bunch of other screening, you know, assessments and scored similarly, and all of them.

Gary: 32:11

If you can give us three pieces of advice for any new entrepreneur, or someone looking to start their own business, what would you say those top three pieces of advice are?

Peter: 32:22

Yeah, I mean, for me, I would say like, if, you know, especially if you're younger, is, you know, I think your career is like a 50 year career, and you have to think about that, in terms of, you know, you know, if you're in your 20s, you could easily work 4050 years, and you don't have to crush it in year one, you have to, I would say two things take longer and cost more than you ever think that they would, you know, we've been developing this motor technology and this new air purifier for two to three years. Like, it's, you know, if I went to China, he probably do in a year or less, and it's, you know, but we're trying to do it, you know, in a different way. And it's just a little bit more complex, and it's costing significantly more than I would have thought and so you have to really be patient to get through the process. And, you know, as an entrepreneur, if you're, you know, we make physical products and, you know, I've worked for the big companies and, you know, there's advantages of being a big brand, like you've got brand awareness and when you're starting off, nobody knows about you in and what I've learned is, is advertising and marketing can be really expensive. And what you want to do is you got to build marketing into your product, you want people to talk about your product because word of mouth is 10 times more effective than any other form of advertising. You can't make a me too product and then go out and advertise it and expect everybody to love it and talk about it because nobody, nobody cares about you or your product. And you just have to make it as as good as it can be and you have to make it differentiated. So somebody would want to buy it and ideally talk about it.

Gary: 34:16

Those are three very practical and real world answers and probably the best we've had in quite a while the one about the things taking longer and costing more. Yeah, that's so true.

David: 34:29

I love the putting your marketing in your product. So we obviously know a bit about around see this because we've worked with you guys but I will say you know, tooling around your website and stuff like that. Air Purifiers typically are not pretty and yours are and that's I mean it's still an air purifier. It has to look a certain way to do its function. But I've always been caught and I think you're you're living that that edict where put your are marketing inside of your product? I love that that phrase because people talk about your stuff, I'm sure more than the boring beige, or gray box or black box that most of these are that are meant to be hidden. When yours has a design appeal to it, where you're not ashamed to have that in your room. You know, I'm saying and I think yeah, that makes people talk about it just by its very nature. And I think, I think that it's very cool. Their aesthetics

Gary: 35:25

and the style of them. Definitely, if someone walks into a house and sees when they're gonna be like, Oh, what is that?

David: 35:30

Yeah, they're gonna ask about for sure. Well, thank you so much, Peter, this has been wonderful. I've enjoyed talking to you, as always. But I do want to leave it open if people want to find out about you and Iran see, and all of that good stuff. Where would they go?

Peter: 35:46

Sure, yeah, our website is to run c.com or ANSI. And you can find me on LinkedIn, Peter, dash, man, ma Nn.

Gary: 35:54

We're gonna put those links in our show notes for everything we published, including the video here and the podcast, so everybody can check those out as well. And I just did want to say, Peter, it's, we learned more about you than we did when you were a client of ours. And it was a great conversation. And it was very cool to talk to you.

David: 36:16

The questions you ask on this podcast are totally different than what you talk about. When you work together. It is really interesting.

Peter: 36:23

Yes, yeah. When you work, it's like, let's get this project done. Yeah, let's

David: 36:27

get it done. I don't care about your kids. Let's get this done. Right. I mean, this is such an interesting view of this anyway,

Gary: 36:34

if anybody wants to get in touch with us, they can leave comments below this video, or they can email us at Hello at the big pixel dotnet. Or they can reach out to any one of our social media channels. So those are going to be linked below this as well.

David: 36:47

All right, on that note, I think we're about done. Thank you again, Peter, for joining us. It's been a lot of fun. Yep. Thanks, guys.

Gary: 36:54

All right. We will see you guys next week.