Enjoy the Pressure | Episode 10

In this episode of the BizDev Podcast, David and Gary start the show off by discussing the latest news regarding Facebook’s rebrand to Meta. It turns out that the name, Meta, is already owned, and the company is seeking a twenty-million dollar payout to sell the name to Facebook. From there the team discuss Microsoft’s own version of the “meta-verse”. Then they pick up from where they left off in last week’s podcast as they answer the anticipated question about how to fund your startup. Lastly, the two of them discuss the new movie, Dune.

Here are the links to all mentioned articles in this episode:
Entrepreneur - There Is Already a Company Called Meta
Bloomberg - Microsoft's Own Metaverse Is Coming

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David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.

In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.

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Transcript

David: 0:00

I still think every time I see Mark Zuckerberg now he just looks like a robot. Like I keep expecting someone to say he's just an avatar. He's he doesn't look human to me. He seems like a blank humanoid, like body synthesized to go over some weird cyborg alien. Like, you know, yeah, like, yeah, he's like I robot with it's just, I don't know what it is. His hair is the smoothness of his skin. I'm not sure. It's like he's been CGT and I just when I watched that whole presentation he gave I couldn't get over it. I kept expecting to say in this whole time I've been as an avatar and nope, that's just his face. i Okay. Hi, everybody. Welcome to the biz dev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter. I'm your host. I'm joined by Gary Voight. How you doing, man?

Gary: 0:50

Pretty good. How are you?

David: 0:51

I cannot complain it. So let's jump right into it. So last week, we covered the metaverse as Facebook claims it and they renamed themselves that whole big thing. And this week, and I'm sure someone grump is really grumpy about this. But Microsoft launches their ideas of the metaverse in which we have no legs. That's apparently the the future is we all lose our legs. We'll link this in the story notes. But they basically had a big demo. And their future is work. Right. So Facebook is all about play with a little bit of work spread in there. And

Gary: 1:29

Microsoft is it's about spreadsheets and Word docs,

David: 1:33

spreadsheets, word doc and PowerPoint. But it's all there right now. They're connecting a lot of teams, which I'm sure slack is really enjoying. But you can in the future, they say next year, you'll be able to if you have I guess a HoloLens which is there. That's not VR, that's AR You can see through it. That's the difference if if you are doing a VR helmet, it's opaque and you can't see the real world around you. And if you have an AR which stands for augmented reality, you can see through it, they're like glasses. And so there's there's an AR helmet, which is really focused on the enterprise and you can't buy this as a as a regular dude, if you've ever seen the HoloLens. It was the it was way ahead of its time. And it's pretty neat, but it's got a very limited, like if you they love the demo of you need to repair your sink. You can call in a plumber and He will guide you through it through AR stuff.

Gary: 2:26

You're looking through the lens like it's someone else's. Yeah,

David: 2:29

yeah. And so they announced their business. The version of the metaverse, which is teams meetings, in which you have a 3d avatar floating one no legs. Really, you have to see the demo. It's it

Gary: 2:42

reminds me of the Nintendo Wii, when that came out, and the little sport that you would play how to the little avatar or a little bit

David: 2:49

better than that. Yeah, they look better than that. But they Yeah, they have that same kind of ethereal look to him. But I the idea, the concept here. I mean, like, Facebook's idea of work is that I put on my goggles, and I've recreated my computer. And if I want another monitor, I can create one. If I want a whiteboard, I create one. And it's all enough AR physical kind of space. This is I'm sitting around my computer, I put my goggles on, and everybody puts their goggles on. And now we're all little cartoon people.

Gary: 3:17

And you're sitting around a conference table.

David: 3:19

I don't I don't understand the appeal of that I missing something here. I mean, maybe in Corona, land where we're all remote. But I would just rather see your face on a Zoom meeting, right? What is this adding to the equation?

Gary: 3:33

From my perspective? Yeah, I think it's just, and, you know, I'm not a Microsoft user. And I don't like not like the company. But I've noticed that they seem to, they always make these like giant, broad claims of technology from the future and everything is going to change. And then they seem to come up short. So this seems like overkill for something that they want to envision as the future of competing with Microsoft. But I mean, kind of like they did with the surface. Remember, they were like, Oh, you're gonna have a Surface tablet in every business, every hotel restaurant everywhere, you know, around the world.

David: 4:15

I don't want to surface though. I want one of those big TVs. If they weren't at $1,000. I would totally have one. Sorry.

Gary: 4:23

Point being. They make these grand presentations about something that's seems like it could be really cool. But then when it comes down at the actual execution of you're like, oh, okay, yeah, it's a legless avatar. Yeah,

David: 4:37

they used to do these videos, and you can find them on the interwebs. They have yours. The House of the future. They were impressive. Those were really cool. And they were shooting for the stars. They're like this was very much vaporware. But what was impressive about it is it it changed your dynamic of how you thought of things like everything was a screen. You had you know everywhere you could communicate and you're counting your kitchen counter had a screen and you could do all sorts of stuff and you put things on it. And it recognized what that was.

Gary: 5:07

And everything is completely. Everything was linked together for ease of use and access. And yes, super

David: 5:13

neat stuff. And it was shooting for the stars. I mean, we couldn't do that now if we tried. But and I think that Facebook when they said, here's our Metaverse, here's our demos, right, the realistic looking people. They're doing realistic looking things. They have cloth, right, their clothes moves, right. It's this really fancy stuff. And of course, they can't do that now. But it was shooting in the future. And you're like, oh, wow, that's really changing how like the idea of sitting in a coffee shop and being able to pull up 340 inch monitors to be able to get my work done is really neat to me. And I never even thought about that. And Microsoft's idea here just seems very iterative. Oh, I have a me right. That's what Microsoft calls or Nintendo called their little guys. I have a little me there. And he can't move very much. And he's got no feet. And I'm not inspired at all here. And like is am I supposed to be inspired by these demos? Like, am I supposed to be excited that this is? This is next year? I'm looking at? I'm not excited? Are you excited?

Gary: 6:11

I'm not excited at all. To me, it just seems like another? Okay, so you walk into a virtual corporate building, you sit at a virtual table in a conference room with other people? Well, okay, you're hovering near the edge of a conference table. Yeah, all these other people like, I mean, they might as well all have ties and suit jackets on it just seems very like, hey, look, it's business. But virtual, in our perception of business is exactly like the, you know, well, at perception of business.

David: 6:45

You can't have a business application where everyone comes in, and they're, you know, I'm a dinosaur, and you're a fairy princess, and this guy's a knight, and we're all having a conversation. That's, that's not gonna work. Well, no, they have to be buttoned up. I'm just saying they have to be businessy. Right.

Gary: 7:04

You know, what I know is it just seems like that's the only environment this is made for. Yeah, that business meeting business documents, salespeople and managers. That's it, which is

David: 7:18

a start. I mean, I can I still am excited about the idea that I could put on goggles and like, I like zoom meetings. But I don't, they're missing a physicality to them. And if the metaverse or whatever it ends up getting called, is going to add that back to a virtual meeting, like I could go and really feel like I could stand up and I can walk to a virtual whiteboard. And but I'm doing that across the country. Yeah, I see that as something a good advancement. I mean, Zoom is great. Don't get me wrong, it's way better than a phone call. But I still think there is a very big place to get business done. Now. Airlines hate this idea, right. But there's still this idea that I could get business done remotely, in the same vein as its in person. Yeah. And when I can see your your face moving. Now, I don't understand where avatars come in there. But whatever, adding

Gary: 8:12

that little layer of like social interaction that seems a little bit closer to reality is definitely a plus. And yeah, have the idea. Can you imagine like, some of our clients are in California on the West Coast, or if they're, you know, across into into Europe or whatever. Granted, you're gonna have a little time change thing. But if you guys can get together, and it's more than a zoom, and you're like standing in their virtual office, looking at what they're looking at, like, and then the surroundings are actually the surroundings outside where they live. So you're like, that'd be pretty cool. There's,

David: 8:42

I mean, there is something to be said about business in the virtual world. I'm just not sure. Microsoft is showing that. Yeah. And it as a demo to say this is this is the future. I'm like, I don't want that future. I don't think I want other legs in my future. That's what I'm saying.

Gary: 9:04

Now, last week, we ended on a question that we need to talk about.

David: 9:09

We did we ended in a cliffhanger for the very first time and I know everybody was bated breath and waiting for this podcast this week, to answer the question that we didn't end on. And so as a refresher, we had Scott sent us a question, as a startup, should you pull funding from your own savings money from another business you own? Or go to investor and or mixture of all of those? And I love that question. Because there are a million ways to answer so I'm going to I'm going to profess my opinion here. Because in and I say that because I'm not saying I am an authority in the fact that other people will have very different ideas aren't right. I just don't think they are. So it's an opinion. I want to be clear. about that, but I am a very big believer that a startup should, in most cases, there are edge cases. If you're trying to conquer the world, like an Airbnb type of idea, you're going to need money, there's no way around it, you're gonna need a lot of money. But very few startup ideas are like that. And I think the problem is, a lot of people think they have to fund themselves the same way. And that's, that's where I really push because most of our clients are smaller startups, they've got ideas, they're very niche ideas, typically. And I push very, very hard that they try to figure out a way to fund this themselves, or with friends and family rather than institutional investors. So that would be my step for the quick answer is, I would say, step one, if you can go get your use your own money. Now, the caveat there is don't put yourself in debt for this, right? Don't max out your credit cards, don't do something stupid, that's gonna put you at financial risk. That's not what I'm saying. But if you have friends and family who you got a wealthy uncle, right, we all have the wealthy uncle somewhere. Or no, we don't all have that. Why do I say that. But that's the classic example, Daddy Warbucks. And all that. That's where you it's a safe place to get money to a point. And it's a small amount of money, and it's enough to get you moving. Like I said, in our earlier podcast about the cost of things, you know, a good startup is going to cost a couple $100,000 to get up and running. But if you take on investment, here's the example I've used before, I'm a bit tangent here. But the example I've used before, if I have a startup that I funded myself, and it's making a million dollars in revenue, right, I can pay myself a salary of $200,000 a year, pretty easily off of a million dollars in revenue. If I'd have a software startup, let me be clear on that. If you're doing jeans, probably not. But if you're doing a software startup, you probably when you're talking about development, and all the stuff on ongoing, you could pay yourself a really nice salary and you're living very well, right you are you you buy a nice house, you can take care of your family $20,000 is a lot of money. Now imagine you took him a quarter of a million dollars, or a million dollars, and you're making that same revenue, while you're still eating ramen. Right? You're, you're not making any salary at all, because you owe a ton of money to somebody, right? So you don't get any of that. And that's really where I push hard to, if at all possible, you should fund it yourself.

Gary: 12:32

Now, when you gave the answer of funding yourself to I kind of went with more of a, I guess, emotional hook of if you are funding it yourself, then it seems like you're gonna have to put in that extra amount of passion and dedication to it to make sure that it happens. There could be a little bit of a disconnect, say if there is like you said, a rich uncle or whatever. Here's some money. Pay me back whenever you feel like it, don't worry about it, I believe in your idea. But yeah, here's a safe place to start, then you don't really have that, I guess. Fear of maybe losing it. So then you you're not quite as motivated. Maybe

David: 13:12

I agree with the fact of it's your money, you have this intangible benefit, that you are driven hard to succeed, more so than I think and I think there's one step if I get it from the rich uncle. I'm not as motivated if it's my money, but it's still my uncle. And I really feel a desire to pay that guy back. Right. The problem is the disconnect. I think a lot of times it's when it's someone you don't know as money, some investor. And you're like, wow, he lost his money. He knew what the risks he was getting into. Right I in you're disconnected. I think that passion, that drive is lessened, not completely removed. Don't get me wrong. People who take money are very driven people. But I just think it's, I always think of it like with the kid, the 16 year old, whose parents buy them their first car. That now let's say they bought him a nice car. Not some clunker, but some really nice, brand new car, that kid is not going to appreciate it nearly as much as if he saved up worked hard and bottoms of that car. And he's not going to take that car, take good care of that car. He's not going to show it off as but the passion the love of that car is way, way less if mama buys it, than it is if dude, I saved up I waited tables for four years, and I finally bought myself this Corolla.

Gary: 14:33

100% agree.

David: 14:35

And I think the same thing with startups. If you've taken money from some invisible person who you don't have any personal connection to that drive is lessened. It's not removed, you're still a driven person or you wouldn't be an entrepreneur. But I think that it changes how you approach things right? And I want you to feel that heat. I want your butt to be on fire because you've got this much runway that you and otherwise You know, you got to go back to your wife and say, hey, you know, our savings that you said we could use for this business? Yeah, I blew that. But I want you to feel that weight. Because that's gonna make you get up at 5am, that's gonna make you work till 10pm, it's going to make you find the right partner, rather than the first guy who walks in the door, it's gonna light you up. And that's where I would

Gary: 15:22

lean. I also believe that in those steps, where there's going to be small successes, as you're starting, you're going to take those little accomplishments, and you're going to internalize them as huge wins, which is going to fire you up to go further, dedicate yourself a little bit more, find new ways to accomplish these tasks to get to your goal. And it's really going to motivate you to keep going

David: 15:46

when I want to, I'm not going to go into this this time. But I want to put this as a placeholder for a future podcast that I want, we should revisit this topic. And that topic is the slog, which is where startups die. And this ties right into that is the people who are in the slog, which is no, it is a term I made up of that is the time after launch, and no one cares. And that's, you know, your job is to make people care, it is a very slowly place to be. And that's where startups die. So I just think that what you're saying is, hey, those little victories, when you spoon yourself funded, man, those are, those are huge, huge, huge, huge. And those are also what's going to get you through that slog that I mentioned. But we will talk about that more in depth in a future episode, because it is worth talking about, because I promise that's where your startup will die. Nine times out of 10. So I think that I mean, do you have anything to add there? I mean, I really think that that sums it up that answers that question that's worth that deeper dive.

Gary: 16:58

Yeah, that passion in that fire. I think there's something to be said about the difference between feeling pressure, and feeling passion, now they can kind of go hand in hand, because it's still going to be that stressful, weird nervous energy in the back of your head, and you're gonna feel like you have to do something. But from taking the position of funding it yourself that have to do something, is going to seem to have a bit of a bit more of a positive impact, and more of a driven push in a positive direction. Where I got to pay back, my uncle seems to be I got to figure something out here. A little stressful, don't know where I'm going, what's next, I need help. You know what I mean? There's a little bit of a, just, I guess, you can say switch in your, in your psyche, or how you approach it. So again, agreeing with you with with the funding yourself agreeing with you, with the car story of kind of earning on your own, and the little victories will definitely help guide you.

David: 18:00

What I think is also worth noting, and these are all the intangibles. But it's also going to change how you build your startup. And I've said from I think our first episode, that I push really hard for revenue first. And if you're self funding, this thing has to stand on its own way faster than if I'm borrowing money from an institutional investor. Right? Yeah. And again, there's a place for investments. I'm not saying that's bad at all. But if I am, if I know I've got five years of runway, I am my my motivation for revenue generation is way different than if I've got six months before I have to tell my wife that is blue, the college fund, right, right. It's a very big thing. And it's gonna change how you how you get up every morning and the decisions you make. And that that's, it's all indirect. But it's it's worth. It's worth noting

Gary: 18:52

now. Have you seen the smaller startups that are self funded? If they start to stand up on their own? At that point? Is it easier for them to get investors and more money to go to, you know, step two, step three.

David: 19:06

Oh, absolutely. So if there's two types of investor investments that I've seen, there is the early stage stuff where they're investing in the person, not the idea, right? Right, man, you this girl here, she knows her stuff. And she's a passionate person. And I don't even care what she builds, but I think she's worth taking a chance on. That's one type of investment. The other type is, this is a great idea. There's some revenue here, all they need is some money to grow and explode, and I'll make my money back. Right? Those are two major types of investments. And if you have self funded and now it's doing well, you can get that second type of investment much much easier. And the other thing that keep in mind is once you in take investment, you can never become on that never but very hard to become bootstrapped again, right. You've taken that path but if you've boots strapped you can always go the investment round, right? You can always choose to do that later. And that's that's worth noting. So if you get started bootstrapped up, do it yourself. And then you go, man, I think I'm ready for it to really explode. I want to borrow some money. Fabulous. But if you went the other way, you can't go man, I wish I bootstrapped, then that's just regret. And that doesn't help anybody Have you seen the movie dune yet?

Gary: 20:31

I have. I read the books. I read the books. I don't know if I've read all the books. But I do remember reading dune books in like, elementary school leading into the middle school. And I remember getting kind of lost in the books where it seemed very complex and complicated, but there was worms and it desert or whatever. So going into watch this movie. I was like, Well, I don't really expect much. But I was completely blown away and super impressed with the way they turned what I thought was super confusing as a kid into more digestible little story arcs. And visually, I can't like every single frame of that movie from audio, and visual, like just beautiful.

David: 21:21

Now, did you see the 80s version? No, I

Gary: 21:23

did not. Okay, so

David: 21:25

that that's my stepfather loved that movie. And I hated it. Like I thought it was gross. The way they made the Baron. If you if you've seen that movie, he's got all these like foils. I don't even know how you explain. You have sting is in the movie and he wears this metal loincloth. I thought that was a no, no, that's David Bowie, man. What's wrong with you, Joe? Good. That's a great movie. Don't talk bad about labyrinth. I love that movie. Anyway. So just a weird, weird movie.

Gary: 22:02

So new Dune, step up.

David: 22:04

New dune. So I say all that because I was I was leery. I had these blinders on. That was from the 80s movie that I just as a kid. I mean, I was a little kid when, when that was out, and I just I was like, oh, okay, okay. But I agree with you. This movie was gorgeous. I love as a as a sci fi nerd. I love how they did the shields. Oh, he thought that was super neat and visually, very cool. And I loved the worm.

Gary: 22:35

Just and I love every environment. And every, like the CG was done so well. Like this. Yeah, it's hard everywhere. How in the world do they make that look? So

David: 22:44

we are at the point where I just don't, unless it's just really, really painfully obvious. That's a CG person or a creature. There's so much background CG. I think Game of Thrones is what really blew my mind. There's so much background CG that you swear is real. Yeah, Lord of the Rings also did the same thing. If you ever look at the behind the scenes of those, and you see where they're really standing. And then you look at it, where it is in the show and all the background stuff that they add. And you don't even think twice about it. But it is all CG. And like I remember in Dune is there I bring this up because dune does this does a very, very well. I remember seeing the behind the scenes thing of oh, one of the Man of Steel movies. And it was where Superman is standing on the steps of the Capitol building. And it's there about it's about to blow up or whatever. And that entire scene, the only thing that was real with the steps he was standing on. Yeah. Even including his cape. Like none of it was real. And I swear when I watched it, I thought he was standing to the capital. It's in dune I think takes that to a halt. They're just getting, like even the worms look real even though very clearly they're not real. Or the helicopter the

Gary: 23:54

dragon. Yeah, the dragon fly helicopters. Well, so right. Now the only complaint

David: 23:58

I have about it is how it ended. I know it's a part one but that is abrupt.

Gary: 24:03

Don't wait for anybody.

David: 24:06

That's fine. No, yeah, I don't want to spoil I just but it's like I didn't know the whole time they had been advertising it is just doing and then at the very beginning is doing part one and unlike

Gary: 24:16

and that that title card was literally on screen for like half a second.

David: 24:21

Yeah. So you forget about it. Because our movie so you're like okay, cool. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, done. I mean, a hard stop.

Gary: 24:28

I will say though, if if you do get into it now, at my house, my wife, not not into it so much. So after about my kids fell asleep for 15 minutes, she kind of checked out. Me and my daughter got into it. And it's like once you lock in, and you're interested in that story, and then two and a half hours later it ends and you're like wait, What? What? Yeah, with part two with part two?

David: 24:49

Yeah, well in that's what that's what I think is also frustrating is they didn't Greenlight part two, and if you're gonna build a Yeah, to me, if you're going to build a movie like that, it's going to be part one or part two, you need to film both of those same time so that there's not this huge gap. Because that means it's probably three years out until they finished that now everyone's gonna look a little different because they've aged and this and the other I mean, that's not that big of a deal because there's no kids in the movie. But that the the main character, I don't remember his name. He's got a French sounding name,

Gary: 25:16

Timothy Shama. limin

David: 25:18

Shama, Shama lemma? Oh, yes, that's shaman then nailed. I, he's gonna look different in two years. And Sunday is going to look different in two years, just because they're younger people, right? And I just, I just, man, come on, if you're gonna do that, and he in the director says, I have a vision for this movie. And this vision is that it's going to be two movies. And when you okay, that you need to Okay, both, that's just my personal thing. They've already approved the second one. So it is being made, at least I mean, can you imagine they build it, and then like,

Gary: 25:50

I've read a rumor that they're already writing a third one. But again, that could just that's

David: 25:55

gonna be like the The Hobbit series that they took one book and turn it into three movies. And I have I still to this day, and I love the Hobbit. That's the only JRR Tolkien book I've actually finished. I tried to read the original one to my son when he was a kid. And if you've ever read that book, there's a lot of songs in it that are like four or five pages long. Yeah, of poetry. And my son was like, eight. And he's like, not another poem. Like, we're reading every word, and I'm pronouncing Elvish. I mean, the whole bit. And we didn't finish that book, though. Interestingly enough, but the Hobbit was a great little book. And then they turned it into three movies. And I had no idea what happened. I have no idea. I mean, you got smug. And that was awesome. And then the rest of the movie, I have no idea. So I'm afraid they're going to do that here. They're trying to turn it into like a 17. Part, multi verse of Dune.

Gary: 26:49

And unfortunately, when that commercialism steps in, and they see box office, or you know, streaming numbers go up, up, up, up, they're going to turn what would have been a good two part movie into a six part movie, and just on in that revenue, and that's where creativity goes to die.

David: 27:05

Well, in books do the same thing

Gary: 27:07

for the examiner, there was a TV show called Heroes. Do you remember that? I love that show. It was supposed to be a one season thing. It was really it was written as 13 parts beginning and end. They got to episode nine. And basically, the network were like, Oh, by the way, guys, we're doing two more seasons. And they're like, but the story's over. They're like 90 more. Yeah, we already wrote it. They're like, Well, yeah, to get some new writers in here, then see,

David: 27:34

it got weird. In the later seasons. My daughter's reading this series of books. We the reason it started, was we were doing this long trip from Raleigh to Dallas, and we were listened to an audiobook. And I can't remember the name of it. But it's basically a who done it a girl died. And you get the whole book is you have to find out who killed her. Right? And it's

Unknown: 28:00

bits of like evidence and stuff. Yeah, it's

David: 28:03

a great who've done it. And we're, we're listening to it, we're listening to it in the book ends and you still don't know. And then we find out that it's actually a six part. There are six books in the series. And we're like, oh, my gosh, I'm so angry at myself that Why listen to this, but at the same time, my daughter was like, I'm done. I'm going she's on book five now. So I mean, it's, I guess it works. But yeah, no, no, thank you.

Gary: 28:25

Oh, and my apologies to anybody out there that are you know, TV or, or movie files that if I'm getting facts wrong, and dates wrong, I apologize. I don't know if heroes was two seasons or 302. You know, I'm just but you get the idea.

David: 28:41

Yeah, that first season when the main bad guy the way he got his powers always creeped me out. Yeah. Alright, I think on that fun note, I think we're gonna end up we don't have any questions this week. Do we? This week? We have no questions or comments. But we're going to start publishing these on YouTube, which I'm hoping will get us a little more

Gary: 29:03

commonly actually, we'll get comments for sure.

David: 29:06

I'm sure. Well, hopefully, they're nice comments. But we will I think that will that will spur the questions and stuff because it's easier. A lot of people just don't want to send an email. So that's true. Be on the lookout for that. We will start putting these out on YouTube. And with that, I think we're gonna wrap it up. Thank you so much, everybody. We will talk to you next week.

Gary: 29:25

See you next week.