Your Branding Success w/ Ann Powell | Ep. 173

What happens when a Fortune 100 brand strategist builds a collective around purpose, not process?

You get Ann Powell, co-founder of Offset Collective, on the Biz/Dev podcast with David and Gary talking about what it really means to lead with the why…or maybe don;t…

They get into how to give your audience all the feels (yes, even in B2B), and why the best brands don’t just sell — they connect.

This one hits strategy, storytelling, and the sweet spot where emotion meets execution.

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Ann on LinkedIn

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David Baxter - CEO of Big Pixel

Gary Voigt - Creative Director at Big Pixel

The Podcast

David Baxter has been designing, building, and advising startups and businesses for over ten years. His passion, knowledge, and brutal honesty have helped dozens of companies get their start.

In Biz/Dev, David and award-winning Creative Director Gary Voigt talk about current events and how they affect the world of startups, entrepreneurship, software development, and culture.

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Transcript

[00:00:02] Ann: Totally. It gave us a big

fat dose of empathy. We're like, God, this is hard. This isn't easy. It takes a lot of blood, sweat, and tears truly.


[00:00:17] David: Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Biz Dev Podcast, the podcast about developing your business. I'm David Baxter, your host, joined Per Usual by Gary Voit, who's rocking green this week. This is how boring my life is. I comment on your clothing. Yes, that's right.

[00:00:31] Gary: Yeah, I know. I feel targeted every week, but then at the same time, I just feel bad for you, so I just let you 

[00:00:37] David: It, it's, it's all I have to live for, man. So thank you. Thank you very much. More importantly, we are joined by Anne Powell, who is the co-founder of Offset Collective. Hello and welcome.

[00:00:47] Ann: Hi guys. It's great to be here. Thanks for having me. 

[00:00:50] David: Jumping in. Tell me about Offset Collective. What do you do there? I.

[00:00:54] Ann: Yeah, so Offset is a brand strategy consultancy. And what that means is that we work with clients of all shapes and sizes to help them understand their customers, their clients really get clear on their competitive distinction and tell their story in a way that is meaningful and that resonates with the people that they're trying to reach. So we do a lot of work in the strategy space. We do a lot of consumer research market analysis and then we build brands through both messaging platforms and design. We do a lot of brand work as well, branding 

[00:01:25] David: you consider

yourself, I mean are, is that just a fancy word for a marketing company?

[00:01:30] Ann: It is the part that comes before so if

[00:01:33] David: you,

[00:01:34] Ann: Yes. So if you're thinking about marketing your brand strategy, if marketing is the, the sort of the packaging brand strategy and the messaging piece, that's what goes in it, if that's the vehicle. And marketing is the vehicle that 

[00:01:46] David: do you partner with

a different company? 

[00:01:47] Ann: all part of the same larger we do. We work with marketing companies who build websites who execute digital marketing and social media marketing strategies. And we also partner with PR companies who do sort of corporate communications, public relations 

[00:02:02] David: you don't do that. That's in, that's, 

[00:02:05] Ann: We do not, that's the collective piece. 

Yep. That's the collective piece. So we have a a pretty robust network of individual partners as well as partner agencies who kind of tag in we're our Venn diagrams of service. Overlap enough that we can, we can be two halves of a whole go to market strategy marketing program where we do the research and the positioning and the creative.

So we build that initial brand and then a marketing company will come in. Digital marketing is really. A lot of what that sort of second piece is these days. Not always, but then our, one of our partner agencies will come in and say, great, you have this positioning platform. You have the UVP established, you have all these kind of foundational pieces.

Now we're gonna turn it into a website, or now we're gonna turn it into a social campaign, or now we're gonna turn it into an event. So we don't actually do the opera operationalization of those strategies, but we do build the 

[00:03:02] David: So why go

that route as opposed to just blow up and do it all?

[00:03:07] Ann: It's a really good question, and I think that if we had founded our company 10 years ago, pre, probably pre covid, really the trend then that the culture and the agency world was full service, um, to

the point where a lot of agencies would hide the fact that they had freelancers or that they didn't have a service in-house. To me,

it makes sense because we are able, as an agency to have the flexibility to not carry the overhead of staffing a full team, but for our clients too. And you. You just Exactly, gave the perfect example for this.

We're able to pull in the right people to work on the project. And especially when you get into technology, there's so many different areas of practice that a generalist just can't do very well. Whether it's technology or strategy you have a, I think a group of roles that are more generalists, more multipurpose.

But when you get into. Some of the more specific things you really do need to go and hire someone who has that skillset and that skillset isn't used every day. So for us it makes sense. We think it makes sense for our clients. We're able to have a team all over the world. We have team members from Hawaii to Scotland. We've got a pretty, pretty big group. And then of course, agencies of all different shapes and sizes that we partner with. Able to do things really well without the cost or bureaucracy of lots of layers of management and the telephone game of I'll have my 

[00:04:36] David: Nice. So

changing gears a second. 



What defines a good brand?

[00:04:45] Ann: How long do you have? No, very simply, this is actually a very short answer. A good brand is a brand that you can walk away from and say, man, they get me. They really get me. I'm a consumer and I look at a brand, whether it's an ad or an experience or walking into a store. If I've created a brand that is going to work hard for my business. People walk away from an experience with me and say, they totally got me. 


I think we all have the experience of laughing at a Super Bowl ad that we go they got it.

They got my parenting struggles, they got my, my work struggles, my relationship struggles. Good brands really get into the, to the psychology of human existence and human behavior and tap into that and create a moment that's relevant that you can. And fall in love with a little bit.

'cause you feel 

[00:05:37] David: So, lemme push

on that for a second. So if I'm hearing you right, a good brand. Is a strong opinion, you're gonna put something forward that, because the only way you're gonna get me is if you said something that I agree with, which means you're stating an opinion, you're making a stance of some sort. Could be a big one or a little one. So if

[00:05:59] Ann: a hundred percent. 

[00:06:00] David: I can imagine you've had clients who are nervous about that because if you take a stand, you just tick someone off. Someone somewhere off. And is that not scary?

[00:06:12] Ann: It's terrifying. It's really terrifying and I think especially when you get, the farther you get from the consumer space, the longer the sales cycle gets the more varied your target audience becomes. Brands are afraid to really stand on a particular perspective or a statement because they don't wanna alienate. Other, they don't wanna alienate anyone, but what's the expression? I'm gonna butcher it. But if you're trying to speak to everyone you're actually speaking to, no one. I think, I would just make one nuanced adjustment to your statement about having an opinion. It is having an opinion, but what you're really doing is saying something to someone that calls out their struggle, that calls out something that they may feel like they're alone In. Harley Davidson is a classic example. People of all ages, genders, races, nationalities. Love Harley, but there's a very small contingent of people who love Harley. And if you love Harley, you are deep. These are cult brands, right? These are brands. People get tattooed on them. Harley Davidson is very comfortable making a statement.

I. Freedom is everything, right? The freedom of the open road, we're gonna deliver that to you. And people hear that and they go, that's what I want. They get me, they get that. I wanna be able to hop on my Harley with the loud, exhaust pipe and make a statement that's a really clear cut, very extreme example of a brand that's making a statement and the market and they have a cult following.

They've built a community around that sort of path of self-actualization that people want to. Be and strive for, um, a smaller, less obvious one when you get into like Apple is certainly just thinking like you less. Freedom of the open road and more thinking of like subtle creativity.

There's certainly lots of B2B brands that that do this really well too. But they're not necessarily saying, damn the man hop on your motorcycle and run off into the sunset. They may be saying, if you choose this particular type of software, big company, you're gonna be able to work fewer weekends. That's not as big of a life changing promise, but it's tapping into something that an executive somewhere is sitting around going, I have so much inefficiency on my team. I don't wanna work weekends. This company has now said they're gonna take care of all this. They're gonna automate all these processes so I can finally go home to my family. So it's a very, it's a spectrum right, of like how bold that statement is. And I think the bolder the statement, the more the fear for sure. 

[00:08:44] David: So you mentioned B2B brands. How. If I'm Harley, or I'm Apple or McDonald's consumer brands, I can give you a warm fuzzy, right? That's ultimately what you're speaking about. Whether it's a hamburger or a Harley, you want a warm fuzzy, so I'm gonna go buy your product. If I am selling enterprise software, not a lot of or, chemical solution or whatever, harder to do the warm fuss.

How does, is that possible? Is that what you still aim for or you go a different route?

[00:09:17] Ann: It's a really good question and I think it, it is. I think warm fuzzy is falls on that same spectrum, right? A warm fuzzy. When I'm shop, when I'm a consumer and I'm shopping for a motorcycle, my level of emotional, I. Commitment to that purchase is much deeper. So you're gonna have to make that bigger statement.

You're really gonna have to go out there and capture my heart. If I'm a procurement officer in a B2B enterprise tech company, I. I, my emotion, my emotional investment, lemme back that up. If I'm a procurement leader in a B2B Tech company, my emotional investment in that purchase is a lot lower. I still have goals.

I still want my experience to be improved. I still want to have a better. Day to day, I wanna have a better day. I want this product to improve my day in some capacity, but the investment, the emotion there is less. So the warm fuzzy that I need in that conversation isn't as big. And, freedom of the open road, it's more about how can I incrementally improve your day with this product. So I think it, it does follow that same sort of, it's directly proportional to the emotional investment of the purchase. And so when we talk to B2B brands and we say, look at Harley, they're like, but we're not Harley. We're not a consumer brand. And of course not, but there's still people buying. There's still a human person on the other side of that purchase. Um, so that's one of the things that we always try to keep in mind is even though you're not a consumer brand, there's still a human being, there's still someone with daily struggles and challenges and a job to do. Who's on the other end 

[00:10:52] David: So if you're, but if you're

talking, you mentioned procurement now that's big boy stuff, right? You're in big company land there. But if you have a procurement, are you really trying to appease, that's not appeal, that's the word I'm looking for. Appeal to that procurement manager as a human. Because they're buying on behalf of a 10,000 people. So I would think part of their job is to say, I have to think beyond myself. I don't care about this software or that software 'cause I'm not ever gonna use it. Are you still trying to talk to that person or are you trying to talk to a broader concept?

I don't know. I don't even know how to phrase that. 

[00:11:26] Ann: Yeah. Well, and that's 

[00:11:27] Gary: think you mean the situation that person might be in, like you wanna talk to what they might be looking for, not how it's gonna make them feel. So I think you can approach it in a way where you're speaking to them, but in less of a generic term and actually trying to use. Language that's gonna, that's gonna hit a little bit deeper than just, we're good.

We're cheap by us.

[00:11:50] Ann: Yeah. And if you think of those, so if you, it's a really, it's a really good question, and it's why B2B buying journeys are so big and ugly and complex because you have a CIO who has a very different motivation for a software purchase than a procurement officer who has a. Very specific goals. If you take those two examples, and this is just, as a, for example, the conversation that the marketing message to the CIO who might be the ultimate decision maker is very different and might be about the software, might be about the experience and the efficiency and the business goals. Where the conversation with the procurement team might be about the sales experience, might be about the customer service experience might be about, you don't have to replace this product in 10 years like you do with others, so you gotta do this once probably in your career. So you're really speaking to the experience of whatever that person is. That's having with your product. So whether it's that first purchase or whether it's a longer more protracted experience with the product. It's about making people fall in love with your company and how you do business. I think there's a statistic that's says 95 or like 99% of the sale has already been made before the first touchpoint. People know if they're gonna buy your, if they want to buy your product or not. What they're looking for at this point is confirmation. When you do brand really well if you have a brand that really connects with people, they're already convinced you've already made the emotional sale, now you just gotta back it up with the logic of yes, it's the right purchase to meet your needs. And so that's a lot of, the lift that brand can. And do for marketing is having that, having that, putting that emotional connection out there so that when you get into the sales conversation, people are already wanting you to confirm that they've made the right emotional decision.

[00:13:35] Gary: I have a question,

[00:13:36] David: No.

[00:13:38] Gary: Okay.

[00:13:39] Ann: Sorry, one question per podcast, Gary.

[00:13:42] Gary: Anne, I'm assuming you work with. Both smaller companies and larger companies, and I know in today's marketing world it's not just about plastering a message as far and wide as you can get, but you wanna actually hone in into a specific target audience or a niche thing. And I know that's gonna look very different for a smaller company versus a larger company.

I wanted to get your take on what the difference between creating a. Audience and creating a community is, and how is that different for the small company versus the large company?

[00:14:16] Ann: Yeah, that's a really good question. And I think often 

[00:14:19] David: She, she's just being 

[00:14:21] Ann: he did, he got his one shot and He nailed it. You stuck the landing, Gary. It is a good question. I think people often conflate the two. I think that especially as we've. For aid into this jungle of social media, you think, oh, this is my social media community.

And this is a group of people who might be engaged online around maybe the product that we offer, maybe the subject matter or the, the issues we resolve in the case of technology companies, for example. People might be really involved around the subject of ai. And so you're able to have conversations. In that, social online setting that can be mistaken for community. But for us, when we think about community, it is the people and partners who rally around your brand in particular. You can have something to say. You have them be valuable to say. And when you say something valuable that people go cool, that's helpful, that's an audience. But when people come to you to say, what do you think about this topic? There's a new X, Y, Z in technology leader. Look at people wait by by the people wait in line like. Crazy for days to see the new Apple product. That's a community when you're waiting to, see the new Apple reveal, that's a community. Way back in the old days, the original, one of the original, I should say Community Builders is Vans. If you guys are, Gary, given your

background there, you're probably familiar, 

[00:15:47] David: oh my gosh.

[00:15:48] Ann: vans was the original community builder, right?

Back in the day. They had events, they were a brand for skaters. Harley 

[00:15:55] Gary: a few 

[00:15:56] David: Or wannabe 

[00:15:57] Ann: they become.

[00:15:59] Gary: Okay. 

[00:16:00] Ann: Red Bull is another one. You know, I think that it, the difference is nuanced. It's like when you, when people are, community brings people together around a common interest community brings people together around a love, a passion, whether it's skateboarding or ai or cell phone technology or whatever it is. Community brings people together and they rally around that. And when you have a community around your brand, it's not about you. People don't come together to look at the new release of sneakers. They don't come together to look at, the new release of a telephone device, a pocket calculator. They come together. To see what Apple's gonna enable them to do, the moments they're gonna be able to capture with their new badass camera. And so I think that it's a very subtle difference. But community is a, a, a. A drawing, a center of gravity that brings people together around a common interest or a common passion. An audience is a group of people who have come together to get information. And so it's the difference of that sort of, am I here for my heart or am I here, to take notes on features and information. So it's really coming together around something that people are passionate about.



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[00:17:47] Ann: The idea for us is that it's very easy to confuse why you are doing something, especially as a founder.

I wanna be the best consultant in the world. That's my why, or I wanna solve world hunger. That's my why. What we really encourage people to look at, especially in these early days, is what is the need that you're meeting? What is that need that you're solving for people? Why should they choose you?

Why should someone stop what they're doing? Or stop, buying a certain product and buy yours instead? And really it's about repositioning that Why. In the consumer experience and considering the context of what your customer, client, consumer is going through and how you can resolve their challenges versus focusing on why you're doing something or why you started your company. So we just like to make sure that when we're thinking about that idea of why that we're focused on really making sure that the customer is the center of the experience.

[00:18:41] David: So you talked about entrepreneurship and helping other companies. Gimme a little bit about how that works in your company. What does that mean? That's a big deal to us as well, but how do you do that? Is it because the, you're collective and that's just how it works? Or give more info how you work with those tiny companies.

[00:18:59] Ann: We. Oh, okay. Gotcha. So your question is how we support entrepreneurs Well, yeah. I mean, as opposed to the bigger

[00:19:05] David: brands and stuff like we've been talking about are you a part of

that startup community that's really big here in the Raleigh area, or are you mainly focused on the larger brands? I get the feeling you're on both, but you do have a passion for the entrepreneurship.

[00:19:20] Ann: we do both. We do both. And we support, it's two very different beasts to tame. And often our larger clients started as startups. And so it's really interesting to see the, to be able to have the luxury of a 30,000 foot view of that journey. And where people are at the beginning versus where they end up five, 10 years. 5 million, 10 million, $10 million later, pardon me. And so most of our business, most of our business, most of our larger accounts are larger companies. We love. Startups. We love creative people. We love people. We're, we are those people we are obsessed with. We have an idea let's push on and see where it can go. And so we love supporting founders of smaller startups and small teams. And we work with individual consultants as well. So it really just depends and that tends to be. There isn't a guide by which we say, oh, you have to be a minimum of X employees, X revenue X industry. We really just seek out people who want to do something interesting that they believe in. And then, who believe that brand building and really creating a solid foundation and being human-centric is an important part of that journey for them, and that happens in businesses of all side of this.

[00:20:39] David: One of the things that I've seen that you've said is you disagree with a lot of the build and public scale fast kind of thing. Can you explain that? What's your differences of opinion?

[00:20:50] Ann: I think that they're, I think that those things, some of those principles. I wouldn't necessarily say a wholesale disagree with those things. 'cause I think some of those principles are true. I don't think they're one size fits all. I don't necessarily think, that scaling fast is the right path for everyone. Um. 



What I do think is that, it's really critical for founders and entrepreneurs to try to be a little bit detached from their original idea. This is a complicated one. While you should hold tight to your MVP and stay true to yourself and stay focused and really focus on that one true thing and not get distracted by shiny objects. It is also really important to be fearless about a failure and be fearless about delegation and very quickly realize what you can do versus what you cannot do. The quadrant of, things I'm good at and that I love. Things I'm not good at that I love. Things that I'm good at that I don't love. What's the urgent but not important versus the not important but urgent. It's really about focusing. I think when we get into sort of this idea of you gotta fail fast, you gotta build in public. Some of those things are true, but I think it's really important to consider what is your industry? Who do you serve? What do you want to be in your business? As a founder, do you want to be the principal practitioner or do you want to scale? And you don't have to follow those rules, you really should take a step back and think about what do I want my business to look like in five years? 10 years? Is this a path to retirement for me? Or is this a practice I want to stay in?


Is this something I wanna flip and sell or is this something I wanna be doing as a legacy as a legacy company, legacy brand.

[00:22:38] David: I like that. We push really hard. 'cause we work with the live startups as well. We push really hard to get, but our way of looking at that is almost lifestyle versus investment. 'cause there's so much pushing and scaling fast and going all that lines up with that investment side, right? You need to go get a lot of money and run as hard as you can as opposed to a lifestyle brand, which you can take your time as long as you're.

Revenue focused. Clearly you have to make money in a lifestyle brand, but it changes the dynamic pretty dramatically. And there's not necessarily a right or wrong

answer, but it's a definite fork in the road. 'cause once you go. Money, you can never go lifestyle. So you really should just take a moment because most people just, especially I think there's something in the

entrepreneur space that just says there is a right and wrong answer and I just don't agree with it.

I think there is a lot of answers and it just depends, and you just take a moment to figure out which one fits you, and then go.

[00:23:38] Ann: I agree with that. Yeah, I agree with that and I think one of the consequences will and I think you know, more power to you if you want to take investment and grow a brand, even if you want it to be something that you stay in and you're the principal operator of, there's nothing wrong with having an investment. You have to enter it with open eyes, knowing what implications that has. On your decision making, on your growth path, whether you want to grow quickly or not. I think that the thing that the sort of the unfortunate consequence of that, like you said, is that people look and say there's a right and wrong way to do it. And if I'm not doing that, I'm not doing it right. And it's already really difficult as a founder, especially if you're going it alone. You look around and you think, oh my gosh, everyone else is successful except for me. And you don't stop and think maybe they started with a grant, or maybe they started with an angel investment, or maybe they.

Jumped from their previous company with a big client. And I think especially in the agency world, we tend to look, but in all businesses we tend to look around and have that, death by comparison where we're like, I'm a failure. But the reality is there is no, it's not one way or the wrong way. So I think that, when we get into kind of saying this is the way to do startups. It can create problems down the road for folks who may be feeling forced to do it that way. Maybe they're not good at that. Maybe they're terrible at investor relations. Maybe they're just not good at asking for money. That doesn't make you a bad business owner. That doesn't make you a bad, strategist or technology provider. It just makes you bad at asking for money, and so maybe that's not your path. So I think that can be, that's important. I think one of the things that we encourage founders to do is figure out what you're good at and what you love, and do that, figure out what's important and urgent and do that not waste time trying to spin your wheels or push that rock up a hill, whichever, pick your metaphor. 

[00:25:29] Gary: Speaking of founders, you're also the founder of another company, kick 

[00:25:34] Ann: Correct.

I must a glutton for punishment. That's 

[00:25:37] Gary: Do you apply your same marketing and branding strategies to kick Dry? 

[00:25:43] Ann: It's 

[00:25:43] Gary: has Kick Dry been around?

[00:25:45] Ann: Yeah. So Kick Dry. My partner Kick Dry was a client. And, We have a one of our clients is a group of investors who are wonderful and they invest in brands that they see a potential for that may not, yet be fulfilling that potential. And so we do some branding work for some of those brands we're have had some really lovely success with this team. Love working with them. About a year and a half ago we did a rebrand for this product and, we fell in love with it. We fell in love with this product and it it was this fing fledgling product. It's a deodorizing drying and deodorizing shoe insert. And we did the rebrand for it and we just fell in love and. We very quickly realized this is something we wanted to have a little bit more investment in. And the five of us became partners. So my business partner and I, and then these three investors. And so we are operating partners of this consumer product brand. And what was really quickly apparent to us is that it is very different to be advisors to a founder than it is to actually be a founder trying to launch a business and lift that. Playing up off the ground. And so it was a really experience for us. And it was a really, it was a gut punch, honestly. 'cause we're like, wait, we gotta do the actual marketing for this. We gotta deal with product, we gotta deal with the supply chain. We've gotta deal with, all this other stuff that we don't like.

We understand intellectually that those pieces exist, but we're not in it every day on behalf of our clients. And so

[00:27:15] Gary: Did that make you, did that make you reevaluate your approach to the strategy for other businesses? Then afterward, It gave us a. like,

[00:27:24] Ann: Totally. It gave us a big

fat dose of empathy. We're like, God, this is hard. This isn't easy. And it takes a lot of, it takes a lot of blood, sweat, and tears truly. To do what founders do every day. And so it, it gave us a perspective, I think. A couple things for our own business.

It gave us the perspective to think about really getting down to, what are those things that are important? What are the things that we're really good at that our business needs, that our client need, clients need, and not focus on the other stuff. Hire, find partners who can help us take that other stuff. People who are specialized in those things that, we shouldn't be focusing on. And really put our time and attention to what needs our time and attention as business owners. And then from a client perspective to really, number one, sit down and go, we know how hard this is. We know how hard this repositioning is gonna be. We know how hard it is to actually take a product to market. And be able to have that conversation with empathy and with the context of it's really what the day-to-day looks like. And that's given us a lot of a lot of good insight and helped us connect with our clients on a deeper level and help them, find the right resources for that.

[00:28:38] Gary: Okay. Now since you've given us the rundown of what it's like to work with founders and being a founder on your own, I'm gonna have to ask for your top three pieces of advice that you would give a founder or startup. 

[00:28:50] Ann: Don't do it. No, I'm just kidding. Do it. 

[00:28:52] David: It's funny how 

[00:28:53] Gary: And we're done. See

you next week. Yeah.

[00:28:55] David: they do it. Jokingly, but man, a lot of people say that. Anyway, I find that's, it's

[00:29:01] Ann: It is a labor of love. I will

[00:29:03] Gary: Looking for relief. That's all it is.


[00:29:07] Ann: The reality is being a founder is, it's really hard. It's really hard, and anybody who tells you it's easy, has either forgotten or they're trying to put on a strong face because it is hard. It is emotional. It's your livelihood.

As soon as you start getting into hiring people, then you're accountable to other people's livelihood. It's a lot, it's a heavy load to carry. So I think take that seriously but also know that you're not alone in that struggle. There's gonna be days that are not great, but the days that are great are so much better than the great days working for someone else. 


Because it is your blood, sweat, and tears that you've put into this work, and it is your name and it's your company. And I think that's just the truth. Not that working for someone else is bad. We've all worked for other people. There's a lot of value in that too. But it is hard. And I think getting into the, walking into it with a very real expectation is important. I would say that's number one. I'll put that as number one. 



I would say number two is, don't do it alone. Whether you have a business partner or you're surrounded by a group of strong advisors you trust who can just talk to you and hear you. People who maybe you're not necessarily in competition with but people who might have the same experiences as you have had or will have. There's just so much to be said for peer groups, for having a mentor. Even just invite another founder for coffee and just have a chat. Being alone when it's hard, makes it even harder. 


And so not doing it alone is really important. I'm so grateful that I have a business partner that I can come to.

Founders, I think often when they get into a place, they've built a team, they have an executive team that's around them, but not necessarily appear to them. It can be very easily you, it can, you can easily become isolated. So to don't become isolated as a founder, really make sure you're surrounding yourself with people who have shared experiences so that you don't become. Isolated and you don't suffer from death by comparison and looking around and going that CEO has it together and I'm a failure 'cause you're not. So I think that would be number two is make sure you surround yourself with good people you trust. Let's see. I don't know, maybe number three would be as a part of that and I've certainly been a sufferer of this, don't. 



Recognize imposter syndrome for what it is. There are so many times that I have had conversations with people. Do I deserve this? Am I doing it right? Who gave me this power? Who gave me all of this stuff? I'm not responsible enough to handle this. But I think it's really important to remember that, by virtue of doing the thing, it means that you can do the thing. And that's hard, and I think particularly for women, but for everyone imposter syndrome can be a real confidence killer. Just really acknowledging it for what it is and just saying even in your daily practice. I've sat with CEOs and sometimes I look around and I'm like, I'm sitting with kind of a big deal and who let me in this room. But the reality is I've earned my business and my reputation and my expertise from 20 years of doing this practice. Get comfortable reminding yourself of that. I think that's really important. Wherever you are in your career journey.


[00:32:40] David: I dig it. 

[00:32:41] Gary: Yeah. I would say as a kid, you kinda look up to adults thinking that they got it together and they're like, oh, okay. They're not stressed about anything. And then you become adult and you're like looking for that adult that's got it all together and realizing, oh wait, that's not 

[00:32:55] David: It's funny though, you still, 

[00:32:56] Ann: yeah. The only people who have it together are like 

[00:32:59] David: when you still see those 

people

[00:33:01] Ann: who don't have any responsibilities.

[00:33:02] David: their.

[00:33:03] Gary: You see the ones who have something together, but there's probably another aspect of their life that is total It's so

[00:33:09] David: common to see someone who's successful at either what you're aiming for or just in another industry, and you're like clearly they've earned it and they are awesome and they figured it out. And it's not that much different than your kids thinking their parents haven't figured out. And then you find out they're just normal people like everybody else. But what's really weird, and I don't think this has ever happened to me, but it. I'm getting old, so it might is when you're now that person and you don't even realize it, that they think you have it all together and that you've done something and you're like, I'm just making it up as I go, dude.

[00:33:42] Ann: Seriously you guys invited

[00:33:44] Gary: Aren't we all?

[00:33:44] Ann: conversation. I'm like, why am I, who wants me to be on their podcast, but okay, I'll take it. You just gotta show up. And I think the idea of, for me, the idea of are you helping people? Is there something that you can share? For me, if there's something I can share from my experience that's helpful to someone else, that's all I, that's all I'm 

[00:34:04] David: That's all we're ever here

for. I love it.

[00:34:06] Gary: If anybody wants to learn more about Offset or Kick Dry, where can they find you online?

[00:34:12] Ann: Yeah, so they can reach us at, they can fund our website@weareoffset.co.co. Or feel free to reach out to me directly. I love having conversations with folks. I am here to talk shop. I. To be available for opportunities to support people's businesses? All the above. And my email address is Ann a n n@weareoffset.co. 

[00:34:35] Gary: We will put that link in the show notes 

[00:34:38] Ann: Amazing thank you