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Welcome to Digital Podcaster. My name is Dylan Schmidt, your host, and today I have a very interesting guests to share a conversation I had with with you. His name is huge wall and reading from visuels bio, which says it better than I can exactly do uhj wall is an ex techie turned to visual artists and personal growth and self healing coach whose wall helps Millennials understand, accept and heal their childhood trauma and conditioned patterns and move from a state of fear to a state of emotional freedom. So, I share all different aspects on this podcast, whether it's marketing, entrepreneurship, growing your presence, online confidence, public speaking, we hit everything here on Digital Podcaster. And something you may not know about me is I have a lot of experience working with personal growth coaches, people in nutrition space, physical fitness, space, psychologists, therapists licensed all that good stuff. And so a lot of like mental health and coaching. And I always find the conversations interesting around personal growth and development because it seems like one of those things that for one, it's kind of polarizing, because some people are like, this doesn't work or that doesn't work. Everyone typically has an opinion on it. And I just like exploring the conversations. So that's why I thought it'd be great to have each wall on. And one thing I didn't know about as well, which you'll learn very quickly, in my conversation with them is the part about visual arts. I find it really interesting. And one of my favorite parts of speaking with visual was hearing his journey of not doing art to doing art. People who get into art later in life always are super interesting to me, because art seems like one of those things that I believe everyone's an artist, but when they just find it like way later in life. It's like, oh, there's just not I don't it seems rather uncommon to me. So and his art is beautiful. You gotta check it out. So without dragging this on any further. Here's my conversation with each wall. Please enjoy. It's a great talk. I hope you enjoy. Let's time welcome to the podcast. usual, thank you so much for being here. Thanks for having me. I'm excited. What time is it? Where

you are, by the way, is 9: 2:24

45pm Oh, okay, my timezone math was like a little crazy, because I'm like, is it like, 2am? That's good. Do you mind just sharing real quick, just real briefly, like, who you are, where you're from, and how you help people? Absolutely. So I am from India, I currently live here as well. I what I do currently is very different from what I went to went to school for went to college for I am an electrical engineer by degree. And it professional 10 years, I worked at the corporate IT space for all decade, before I got laid off from my last job, which was exactly six years ago, in March 2016. And that came as a huge surprise, it was you know, it was quite a shock. Because, you know, I was I was expecting a promotion. And I got laid off in the meeting that was scheduled to discuss my promotion and my, my salary. And so yeah, that was that was, that was something you know, so understandably, the following like, several months, one whole year, year and a half was, I would say, probably one of the most stressful phases of my life, I described that as my rock bottom, my emotional rock bottom, in that Venus, you know, it took me to a very dark space in terms of like, you know, just understanding what had happened after investing 10 years of hard work into a space that I never enjoyed in the first place. I you know, the whole engineering and it and it's not something I did by choice, it was, you know, I was just making my family happy. And even that got taken away, right. So it was I was left with nothing. And so, you know, that's when I would say what most people consider or describe as their sort of spiritual awakening slash dark night of the soul or whatever terminology when I give it that was that phase for me. And, you know, I reached a stage where it was complete surrender. I didn't know what I wanted to do next. But I had to, I had to somehow figure it out. So I just, I kind of just left it to whatever came and, you know, I started to you know, focus on understanding that was my entry point into, you know, understanding how the human mind functions because I want to understand what was going on with me right now. So I started to, you know, really like, spirituality became my sort of rescue. But then I slowly got into psychology, I got really fascinated by the human mind and body. And just understanding how things pan out the way they do, and why that happens. And I somewhat, I somehow got back into art. During that time, I used to not pay in price to draw I used to randomly do as a little boy, but like life gets in the way, you know, you kind of give up these things that you truly enjoy, to love. And I think the fact that it completely surrendered. My, my spirit somehow got back to what I really enjoyed as a doing as a child. And I started pursuing art out of nowhere, it became a quote, unquote, profession, but I started selling my work, people started commissioning me for work, one thing led to another, I started, you know, hosting mindfulness workshops, because I believe art came to me, not as a form of like, Hey, you're looking for something to do with your life? You know, why did you make this profession, it wasn't that it was. Art came back into my life as a form of meditation at a time where I was dealing with a lot of stress and anxiety. And so I started, I wanted to share that aspect of my art with people. So that's how, you know, the mindfulness workshops came about. And, you know, when a couple of years into it, in 2020, went, the whole world sort of went indoors, my workshops had to be put on hold, obviously, for a while, because there was no physical connection anymore. And that's when I started taking it online. And one thing led to another again, and I felt this strong urge in 2020, to, to, you know, take it up a few notches, and really start to work with people not just around with art as as a medium, but also just get it into a full blown sort of transformational coaching. And that's how, almost exactly a year ago, I decided to, I started this page. And for the first few months, I was just exploring with different ideas, self awareness, coaching, mindset coaching, I was kind of playing around with the space a little bit. And I'd say earlier this year is when I finally came to what I would feel is most connected and that is trauma. So as a personal growth coach, I work specifically on healing, childhood trauma and traditional. Beautiful. That's it? No, I'm just kidding. That's all, like the biggest things that we all deal with. That's beautiful. Of course, I got so many questions for you. But first thing that comes to mind is when when you were working in like engineering it, it's very, would you say? I don't I don't I mean, I don't know very surface level stuff when it comes to that stuff. Although my dad thinks I'm like an IT professional and could engineer a cell phone to get us to the moon. Not true. But when you looked at the problems that you were solving back then where is my perception would be that it's more linear like that you have to find the issue with a problem within it. It's like you break down the systems of how something led up to it. Right. Right. So I would imagine that so black and white have far as problem solving. It's not like a cable is having a bad day emotionally. Like, are you doing okay, there, buddy? What's going on? Like, you know, it's like the cable either works or doesn't work. It's either plugged in or it's not plugged in. Right? Maybe you have to do some solving. And please, again, I'm not I'm making assumptions here. So please tell me if this is off. But I mean, obviously about the motions. I'm joking, but the problem solving is way more like this either happened to or it didn't happen. And then you go into something like art, which essentially is just a blank canvas, you're creating something from nothing. And maybe it's not a problem, but people approach a blank page, like a problem. Like they're like, this is a problem because I don't know what to do. I don't even know how to do art. I don't know how to just like be myself. And then you go almost in a way I feel like combining the two into the child Whoo, childhood, child. Childhood wounding trauma healing. It, it almost seems like combining the problem solving of like the engineering and the creativity of art combined. It's like you have the what you also help people with right. Yeah, that's a that's a great question. So I would say the there's there's a there's obviously a whole lot more analysis from that sense, you know, that goes into working with someone at that emotional psychological level, because we're dealing with very complex human emotions, you know, and nothing is black or white when it comes to our mind at the way it functions, right. So yeah, as opposed to, like, you give the example of cable, but you know, even a computer code, like if, if a web page went down, you know, there's, there's a few steps that you could follow, you know, to brainstorm, are starting to troubleshoot the issue, and there's, within a certain frame of references, you will be able to find a solution to, because it's a smaller set of things that could go wrong with with something like that, versus we're talking about something as complex as the human mind. There's no, no two human beings are alike. You know. And while that's a very cliche statement, it's, it's, it's so true, because let alone you know, let's say you and I, not just not just us as individuals, you'd be even if even if I don't know, if you have siblings, but even if two siblings who grew up with the same household can turn out to be very, very different, you know, as as grown adults, because even though they had similar upbringing in the same environment, you know, each of them have their own mindset, each of them have their own personality, their own, you know, lack of confidence, or their age, the emotional support that that each of them need might be at a slightly different level, right, so everyone has their own, there's so many nuances between between there's so much gray area, that black and white, it's yeah, it's, it's a whole different world. So, you know, coming back to your point, here it is, in a way, bringing that creativity of of thought about this myself to the, what goes into, you know, creating something on a blank canvas or blank, in my case, a blank piece of paper. The more I rely on my intuition, right, and let it flow naturally, I'm able to not only produce a better piece of art, I'm also more satisfied with it because it feels more what's the right word? It feels, I feel more connected, right? And it feels more natural, as opposed to when I try and use quote, unquote, logic, right? Of course, a lot of my art is geometric. So geometry does involve logic. But beyond that, right, I'm talking about, you know, I try not force inspiration, I try and let that flow through me. Stuff that says yes, that that creativity does come in handy when working with people who have really never spoken to before in my life. Now back then. And here we are trying to dissect their past experiences, how do we really get to the root of what they're dealing with? Whether that's one conversation or or over a series of conversations? So yeah, there's there's a whole lot that really goes into that level of problem solving. And you weren't making art when you were doing like, it engineering and things like that, like back in the day. Oh, I A, there was hardly ever any time. And you know, when there was I think I was never, you know, during my my college, as well as, you know, my, my 10 years of work. I was never there frame of mind where I allowed myself to get creative or pursue this hobby on site. It was it was I guess, by that time, I was so fully programmed into this, like rat race, right? I'm doing this and I'm doing this for a reason. And anything else is just a waste of time. And whatever little time I do have I guess I'd catch up on some rest. But there was no you know, looking back at that is weird how I completely gave up on all my hobbies. Music was my only sort of go to once in a while, but I never I never picked up a sketchpad for I don't know, 1518 Maybe 20 years, right. So after I lost my job that year, later that year, just just because I was so stressed, and at times so bored, because I had nothing to do while I was you know, applying for jobs every single day, other than applying for jobs, I had nothing to do so either either to you know, tackle my border order, or to sort of manage my stress. I picked up a sketchpad after waiting 20 years, and it just started flowing through again. So that's when it sort of dawned on me like why like I still I still got it. applying for jobs. It's like a draining thing to like. I love how you use like art to kind of nourish yourself because because it's like so repetitive of like, I fill this out the same thing I filled out on all of them. They always want to make little difference in the like, answer these questions or these multiple choice. It's like, so much like, so many questions and only to get like, yeah, sorry, we're not interested. Yeah, it's that I got I got I got my fair share of those. Yeah, not interested. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Same I've gotten over the years I have gotten yeah, I've gone through spurts like years over the past few years where I'm like, I want to, I want to work for a certain company or something like that. And I'll just go on these, or like, I want to go into this certain, like, job role. Or maybe I'm like, this was like, a few years ago, I was like, I'm just gonna go on like a application spree. But my job skill set is very vast and like, it's hard to, I don't think I'm meant to be like, in corporate culture, I don't think they I don't think I think you'd be I think you'd be doing yourself at the world a huge disservice. If you're a corporate because it's, the universe doesn't let me in creativity, you know, it's it, you'd be, it'd be a shame if you got stuck in that box. So it would be in it's like, all I can say it, I have a lot to say, that's all I gotta say, is the universe. Definitely. Like, if you if there's so many knows. It's like, there's a reason why there's so many knows. A funny thing though, happened, like this was a time is going fast. But I guess it was like five years ago, four, four or five years ago, maybe I think my maths right. I applied to like, a bunch of jobs, because I was like, I'm gonna like, get a job somewhere. Because I wasn't doing Digital Podcaster at all. I didn't know I was had clients. But I was just like, I need some type of I don't know, I thought I needed like a corporate, not a corporate, but like some type of company needed to work for. So I was applying to a bunch. I applied to so many places, places that I was like, I hope they don't even like respond to me. But the funny thing is, I only got two interviews. And one of them was tick tock. And one of them was epidemic sounds which I use on any video I use that isn't like using sound from like tick tock or Instagram. I always use it Epidemic Sound from my music, which is like, it's again, like to me, it's like the universe show me like, it's just so funny. Because Tiktok was like, We love you. We don't know how you'd fit exactly into our company and Epidemic Sound same. They're like, we love you. And I don't know that we have an exact role that fits in here. But can we stay in touch? So it's just funny, because it's like two of those things I use every day now. And it's the only people that contacted me, I don't know, it's meant to be but I felt that. So these days, because it's so easy to like, just only look in the past, but currently, you're which I know you help people do all these days, you're making art and you're helping people with child. Child I keep on as a child wound childhood healing in Trump. Childhood wounding and trauma healing, that's a time is that do you ever get tongue twisted by this just me? Other trauma, childhood trauma, that's the easier way to say it. And you're helping people with both is there overlap between the two? Like, do you ever recommend for your clients, your trauma clients to do art as a form of healing? Love that question. At this very moment, no, but I would say that's, that's coming back. I don't know what to say sometime this year. So going back to, you know, what, when I when I shared about, like, these workshops that I was conducting, you know, mindfulness workshops. I did that for a couple of years. And you know, once I started to, once I started this page once I got, but full time coaching as well. For a couple of reasons, I kind of put those workshops on hold. One is Well, firstly is not was obviously you know, a lot of my time was was being dedicated here. Because this was a very new space to me. I wanted to spend some time and understand the industry and how the whole thing works. But also, I felt like this sort of workshop, it almost had like a mind of its own, and it was evolving on its own for a couple of years. But it felt like he had reached a plateau. And I wanted to I wanted to do something more with it. But at the time, I couldn't really figure out what it was. So I thought you know, it kind of made sense, like the timing is right, so I thought I'd put it on the phone for a bit and see how things evolve. So now that I've, I've even sort of picked quote unquote niche like in terms of the code Do you know, trauma healing? childhood trauma healing is the niche that I've been at now that I'm understanding this space a little better. And I've also spent the better part of the last year and a half or so processing a lot of a lot of my own childhood trauma, right. That's how, that's how I became even more drawn to helping and guiding and supporting others with theirs. So now that I've sort of picked up more tools, and I'm learning more about myself, and I'm learning more about just from my healing in general, I think now, I definitely want to at some point this year, I want to bring it back, and sort of incorporate a lot more of what I've been doing over the last few months. And, you know, make that that workshop, or it was already a fairly holistic experience. It wasn't just like, I don't consider myself an art teacher at all, the goal was never to, you know, pay, like, come attend my workshop and learn how to draw this piece of art, that was never my goal. Because I'm not here to, you know, have anyone become the next best artists, I'm here to help people see that, how they can use that form art, as a mindfulness tool as an alternative meditation to write, to really sort of connect with themselves and really harness their creativity and increase self awareness and all those things. So all of that was already part of it. Now, you know, I've, I'm understanding nervous system regulation, a whole lot more understanding, you know, so much more about how the physiology of how trauma lives in your body and how energy moves through the body. So I think now what I bring it back, I'll be able to add a lot more sort of meat, so to speak, and make a much more powerful tool in terms of trauma hidden agenda. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it, it's fascinating to me how much overlap there is between doing something like, like, like art, trauma, healing, of course, childhood stuff, like all of that, how it relates to so many different, I would say industries and like lifestyles, like or cultures. Because doesn't matter if you work in finance, you know, like, that's your job. But also, you're a person and you deal with the same, you know, principles that we all do. And we all have different different experiences, of course, that make us who we are today. One thing that stands out to me and and I bring this up, because it's because I've worked with, and I don't really talk about it on the podcast, because there's not really like, I mean, so far I haven't really talked about on the podcast so far, only on the within the first 50 episodes here, but I've worked with a lot of therapists coaches behind the scenes for years. And naturally, like, I'm not, I'm, I feel like I've worked with so many that I'm a good picker of like, oh, this person is genuine, and I can see how they can help people. But I do always try to put myself in the audience's shoes. And I don't believe that anyone should just blindly follow someone without having done some type of like, feeling into it to like, is this person someone I should trust? Because whether it goes for like business advice or anything like that, it's like, so anyone can say anything these days of like, you know, hey, you know, post 80 times a day on tick tock, and you'll become a millionaire. And people like, they seem like they know what they're talking about, because they have 80 million followers. So let me post 80 times a day. Wait, I'm not a millionaire. I'm burnt out all this. It's like, wait, what advice are you following? So I can tell from the person that's listening, that's like maybe skeptical of like, what what makes you qualified? Or how, like, Who are you to say, because Because naturally, you know, I've, I've seen with a lot of coaches. Strangely, I have not seen it that much with podcast coaching. Maybe because it's more like black and white people aren't like, well, what makes you qualified to talk about podcast coaching, sir? No one No one is wait for that comment. No one has said it yet. But like, I know, it's so different with emotions, because they're like, because probably because they're triggered a little bit too. Like, Oh, you think you can handle my childhood? Like you you've you've seen nothing, you know? Do you get that? I guess that skepticism, that pushback? Do you see much of that? To be honest, I think I can count on one hand how many times I've been asked, you know, or maybe just a couple of times not. I haven't personally gotten that a lot, but it's a very valid, you know, I completely understand what you're saying. It's about I would concern that someone might have, I was asked once, you know what my, what my qualifications are, I'm obviously open about the fact that I'm not a. I'm not a trained psychologist, and I don't claim to be right. And that's what I'm here to hear. Yeah, by my, in terms of, like qualifications is, or what makes me, you know, qualified to work at this capacity. And, you know, like play this role of helping and supporting someone dealing with these sorts of issues, is the plain and simple fact that I've experienced my fair share of very similar issues pretty much all my life up until like, very recently, I would say, so, you know, when you talk about a certain job, or certain qualification, or degree or whatever, people can't, like, oh, I have five years experience this, I have 10 years experience is that, you know, this, I've worked in marketing for so long, I've worked in branding for corporate for however long. So from that sense, I've worked in this space of suffering for three and a half decades. At and so I come from, from that experience, and in my honest opinion, everyone in their own way is dealing with, with similar things, it's just the intensity is, you know, can either be low or high. But a lot of people are, you know, even the ones that are dealing with a lot of pain, a lot of suffering, are either not aware of it, or they're aware of it, but they don't know how to like what to do about it, or they're not, they're not confident that they'll even be able to make any sort of positive change in their life. Because, you know, there's so down and out. And again, I know that because I've been there. So yeah, in terms of there's no, there's no, I don't have a degree to show for this. But yeah, real time experience in, in, you know, what, what trauma feels like? We're living with trauma and having to, knowingly or unknowingly ignore it. Right? Yeah. escape it, right. Yeah. I'd say that's, that's where I come from. Yeah. And, and in to add to that, too, like because because I love this conversation of like, qualifications and things like that, because I stopped paying attention in high school, because I was like, I'm gonna go into audio production. And I was like, I'm not learning that here. Am I going to get am I going to get my diploma cool. I just need the bare minimum, let's get Ds, like, Whatever, whatever. I had to get to, like, just literally graduate. So I could go to school for audio, cuz that's all I cared about. And, and so like, but at the same time, when I started Digital Podcaster people I do actually remember now, I didn't have a podcast, and my like, rebellious side was like, I'm not going to start a podcast because I want to do the thing that like people are like, you don't have a podcast, you can't give information on this. Even though I've helped people behind the scenes, I wanted to be like, it almost it was like almost like rebellion. In me just saying like, Screw you. I don't I don't have to have a podcast to to help people. And I've seen many things like, I would just say to thinking of this when you're talking to people who also make that, that judgment, or that skepticism to I think a certain skepticism of anything is like shows a sign of like healthiness rather than blindly trusting. But I do think too, it's also like, what kind of things are you looking for, if you're looking for like, a diagnosis, and a prescription of a drug? Why, obviously you go to the doctor for that, if you're looking to do a certain thing, you're like, you want to get the right person for that. And it's funny, because I guess when it comes to, to thinking, like when people think trauma, emotional trauma, or childhood, they think that, you know, it's, it's they need, they have they have basically, I think, especially in the mental health field, people have a lot of a lot of trouble picking the right person, so they never pick anybody. And so they're like, they get stuck, because I hear that all the time from people in my personal life of like, because I'm big fan of therapy and big fan of coaching all that stuff. But they're like, I just I don't know who to pick, because maybe they'll get chosen someone with their health care provider, and they go and they meet and they're like this person. I had a terrible experience. I'd gone spoke with like, I was like, I want to see a therapist because I thought I could get it under my insurance. And the lady I met with is like, Are you depressed? I was like, I don't, I don't know. And then she's like, like, what's wrong? And I'm just like, I just wanted to talk to somebody, you know, like, I just want to talk to somebody. Yeah. Can we like, can we get to know each other and then I could just like, have a safe space and we could just like get up Like, she's just like, well, I'll be honest, if you're not really like, I hate to be so blunt, but if you're not suicidal, you know, if you don't really have self harm or anything like that, she's like, it's going to be tough getting in here, maybe once every six weeks or something like, what the heck? Like, come on, I'm like, I just want to talk to someone, like, can I just, I just need to help processing some emotions, you know. And that's, that's the, that's the unfortunate part about and I've heard about similar experiences from from people as well. You know, there are some really big names in the psychology space was. So as of, you know, Instagram theaters, as well, we'll talk about this. It's unfortunate that there's so many out there who were the, you know, like, like, like yourself not having that experience that they thought they would they, you know, they, and it's this whole thing of like, okay, which, what would my insurance cover? So, you know, I'm gonna use that as a criteria to select because, you know, it is about paying either anything, or at least a portion of it out of my pocket. So that becomes a criteria for selection. And you know, then you're, you're just you kind of, you almost fool yourself into thinking, oh, yeah, this is the best option for me. But unfortunately, that that individual may or may not be, you know, what, what you're hoping? Totally, you may not have the experience that you call it hoping for, right? Yeah. Yeah. And just because you choose someone doesn't mean that that's, like, you know, like, what if you know, the meaning you give the person that's in front of you to like, like, if that lady had been like, Well, my only option is to come once every six weeks and make me feel really kind of weird about this, you know, I could give the meaning to that. Or I could be like, actually, okay, well, now I know not to go here. Maybe I do left our Hey, just a little bit to find actually a good therapist or coach. And, and so I would say to anyone listening, who is also skeptical is like, is like also just kind of, there's a lot of talk about, like trust of like, if you trust the person, you're gonna go way further in the healing journey. And typically, if you're having trouble choosing you, I don't know, your gut kind of knows, you know, like, I just like, talking to someone, like when people like, guest on my podcast, like, how do you choose and like, my gut tells me everything, like, I kind of know if I'm going to have someone on and they're going to be like, just wanting to sell something the whole time. Or if they're going to be uncomfortable to talk to you, I don't want to talk to someone for an hour. That's just like, just the whole thing. Just weird. You know? So, yeah, so it feels like like, also like proximity, like, if you see somebody and you trust them, and you want help in that area, you don't need like, you're not gonna get like, I've found with like, someone like yourself, you're not direct mailing everybody in them, like the not getting junk mail and billboards, like ready to do your trauma healing, like, it's a picture of you and like a suit with a thumbs up, call one 800 childhood, like, that's not gonna happen, like, you know, like, someone like yourself 100% agree with that, you know, with everyone's online today, you know, they have a website, or they have an Instagram account, or, you know, they're on LinkedIn, there's somewhere there's some online presence, right. You know, there's, there's enough, there are enough options available, especially if you're looking online, you know, it's like, you're, you're free to roam around here. window shopping. Yeah, get a sense of get a feel for for that person's energy, you know, connect, see if you connect with their contact with their messaging. Yeah. And beyond, you know, the fact that, you know, again, anyone can create content posts, but like, have they experienced themselves, you know, what, they're the things that are that they're talking about, right? Again, everyone has access to the internet, anyone can buy 10 books on psychology and, you know, read them cover the cover and start to, you know, for workshops are starting, you know, teaching others, all these principles from psychology, but like, trying to get a sense of Have they really experienced these things themselves, right. You want to talk about trauma, you know, have they have they dealt with something similar themselves, because they've been through that. But they've been down and out, but they've experienced the lowest of lows themselves. You know, they've come back from that. That's when you know that what they're talking about is just it's beyond what what's available in a book or on a blog, right, I could read up 100 different blogs and get you gather knowledge. But 100 blogs won't give you what teach you the feeling of having gone through certain things, certain experiences in your life, right that and that's where this is different from just, I don't know, studying history or geography or whatever else. I'm not to say that those subjects aren't, you know, you don't I mean, it's not totally there's, there's so much more that goes into, say, when we started talking about this early on with the the idea of, you know, what's the qualification? That's why that qualification to be. And I'm not saying this only because I'm doing this now, even if I was that person, you know, out in the market looking for a therapist or coach to work with, I would rather work with someone who's been through those experiences themselves than someone who has a master's degree in psychology, but may have had a relatively, you know, comfortable sort of, I don't know, if that's politically correct to say, oh, no, I know what you mean, though, like, seem like and that's why I think like, the person like, like, what are you looking for, you know, like, if you're looking for, it depends on like, what you're, it's I don't know, it's almost like, like, if you're, you're building a race car, you want to go to someone who works on race cars, and has experience with race cars, not, not someone who is like, specializes in golf carts, you know, and like, it's like this the wrong person, it's like, it's fine. It's not like the golf cart person is less of a person or anything like that. But it's like, if you're feeling you want to do some work around a certain area, go to the right, the right source. Another example is, which I think is it's also you know, if the coaching industry is if you want to hire a fitness coach. So you have two options, but what one person who has a degree in something, some related field, I don't know, nutrition, or health sciences or whatever, but may not be really like very fit themselves, versus someone else who is super fit. But you know, they did it all on their own, just sort of, you know, their passion, their haven't studied, you know, they haven't got professionally, they haven't gone to school for that particular subject, whatever, but, but they've, they know what they're doing, because you can see it on their body, right? I would much rather hire the person without a degree. But yes, you know, I can see is that you can tell like this person, there's a reason he or she is super fit. Oh, yeah, I love that analogy. Like, I was a trainer years ago, like, I, when I was a bunch of years ago, 12 years ago, I don't know, I believe one of my first jobs was working at a gym. And then I became a trainer. And I have like, trained a bunch of people personal training, just one on one. And similar thing I saw a bunch of that have like, and it was, it was a strange thing, because like even talking about, like, politically correct, it was like, sometimes there was trainers that I knew, or like, like, this person doesn't fill their body up with the right foods to propel them throughout the day, they're always like, struggling energy wise. And then workout wise I can I could tell when they're just going through the motions of like, you're just here to collect money for your session. And then you can see that the trainers that were like, invested in their clients results, and they took care of themselves, they wanted to lead by example, and all that stuff. And it was just such a night and day difference in a really, it's such a great analogy, like you really see in the fitness space. And, and nobody, the there's like a basic level of, especially in the fitness space of the trainers, like you have to have a certificate, at least in the US. And at least in California, you have to have some typically gyms will require some level of certification. But those certifications are joke like, there's no one that's getting trained. Nobody knows what those certifications mean. Like they are made up and they're not all equal. Like one of them is way harder to pass and a little bit more expensive and like more maybe respected amongst trainers but like no client ever was like So what certification Do you have? Yeah, show did you go to certificate like, is it accredited by so and so Institute? They went through the motions like they I would take them through a maybe some type of introduction kind of workout analysis, just kind of figure out where they're at, get an understanding of where they're at. But no, of course, during that process, they're not like, well tell me about your certifications, or how have you helped people, they were either referred, or there's that level of trust. And then it's like you already start out with like, one level of trust and then it either goes up or down based on their interactions with you. And I always thought that was interesting because cuz I don't recall having someone be like, because it was like, yeah, if you're gonna be trying to enter a bodybuilding competition, I'm not the guy like I'm not that guy that's gonna get you into a bodybuilding competition. If you want to gain muscle, lose body fat, if that's your goal. Cool can help you there. But yeah, it was his find that interesting. And a great, great analogy. Okay, I know we have a lot more. So I feel like we have to do another episode, hopefully, together in the future because because I want to be mindful of time. How can people work with you? These days? I know you talked a little bit about it. But if you could share where people can find you how people can work with you all that good stuff. Yeah, I find me on Instagram. The lady that SEO, I currently work with people on a so far only doing one on one, I don't do group coaching. I haven't started group coaching just yet. Maybe sometime in the near future. But at the moment I'm doing like I just recently a couple of months ago launched this signal session offer where it's called your next step where I essentially work with people who are stuck, who find themselves stuck in some way, in a situation. That could be anything that they're dealing with. And I sort of help them work through things that they're sort of, you know, at an emotional level, at a spiritual level, at a physical level, even I bring in that sort of Mind Body Spirit connection and understand what what might be their blockages and you know, kind of go back into, again, looking a little bit into their history and seeing what their fears are, what some of their, you know, demonic beliefs are. And just help them untangle a little, a little bit of those things and start to at least take a couple of steps in the direction that they want to move to, which is why it's called your next step. So basically, if I help them find that, what does that immediate next thing that they do, it could be a tangible next step that they can take. It could be you know, something at a, at an energetic level, whatever that might be. So that's, that's what I'm currently working on people. Thank you so much, as well for joining me today. Thank you. Thank you again, to my guests whose wall for the conversation today. I really hope you enjoyed our conversation, please check out the show notes to learn more about each wall and give them a follow on social media. I appreciate you listening. I hope you got value out of this episode. And all the other episodes, I've got a few more solo episodes coming out over the next few weeks, because I've got a lot to share with you that I can't talk about when I got a guest on. All right. It would mean the world to me if you enjoyed this episode to rate and review wherever you listen to podcasts, Apple podcast, Spotify, wherever goes along ways helps the show out a ton. And if you'd like to create or grow, or monetize your own podcast, please visit Digital podcaster.com. And I can help you with that. All right, I hope you're having a great week. I hope you have a great week. And I'll see you next week. All right, thanks.