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Welcome to Digital Podcaster. My name is Dylan Schmidt and I have a exciting episode for you today. So this is the first of what will be many of a series on diving deep into one person's podcast. And we're going to basically help them get unstuck. And I'm going to do some coaching, but it will be very conversational. And you'll learn a lot I promised during this episode, and today we have our first guest, his name is Bob Walters, his podcast is called locked up sports. Bob is a genuine, big hearted guy out of New York City. He works at Rikers is a correctional corrections officer working with the toughest of the tough, and then he travels to do his sports podcast. And Bob and I hit it off. He is a great talker, as you'll hear, and, and one of the things that I give people who are coming on during this type of episode is I ask them what the biggest problem they're having with their podcasts is when it comes to either starting growing or monetizing. And Bob's biggest obstacle with locked up sports is getting people to listen for the first time getting new listeners essentially. So that's where a lot of our focus is, is around getting new listeners. If this is something you struggle with, and your own podcast, or you want to have this problem, and you're like, hey, I don't even have a podcast. I would love to have this problem. Visit www dot digital podcaster.com To learn more about how you can start grow or monetize your podcast. And in this episode, you'll hear me give some tactical steps on how Bob can grow locked up sports using the power of social media and doing it correctly. So let's dive in to my conversation with Bob and locked up sports. Here we go. My guest today is Bob Walters, whose podcast is the locked up sports podcast. How long have you been doing this podcast again, but we got 10 episodes. We've been doing it I guess it's 10 weeks now. So we have it's 10 episodes. 10 weeks? Yeah. That's incredible. Yeah, I was. I was doing some research on your podcast and the notes that you gave me. And I was like, Man, you guys are coming out the cage strong. Did you do anything previously to this podcast? No, we never. I never did a podcast. I never listened to podcasts before. Um, I do have a background somewhat of radio. I went to school for broadcasting. And now I'm a correctional officer. Yeah. Does it help? Is there any crossover? Does it help? Does it help being a correctional officer? No. No, the broadcasting skills when he actually doesn't really to be honest with you, because it's completely different. Now. All the technology is completely different. I used to use like court machines for first bend music and stuff like that. So I mean, none of that is used now. That's all ancient, ancient stuff. Yeah. So I mean, it's all it's all new to me at this point. But I do have a background in and I've always wanted to do sports broadcasting. And I've always you know, I got the gift of gab, so yeah. All right. Who's your favorite broadcaster current current broadcaster. Favorite current broadcaster is probably might be Gus Johnson basketball. It's different with each sport. Gus Johnson basketball I like what what nation does he do? He does he doesn't national national spots. He does CVR actually is Fox Fox now. He was CBS I like an eagle. Who does the nets on yes network. And he does also the TNT NBA national broadcasts. And what about past like overall broadcasters whose overall broadcast is I mean, just like the back Emmerich for hockey, he was the best he can make grass grow and seem interesting. You could sit there and you could describe paint drawing, and you would be excited about it. I like yeah, that my Rangers guy Sam rows in and people like that. Just you know, it doesn't matter. You know, we could sit here for the whole hour and I didn't move forward. Okay. Well, I was actually hoping you were gonna say one. That's what I was trying to actually get you to say, Well, we tried to get Vince quality. Let's go. And so he said, Yeah, let's go. Yeah, let's go. He's the he's the He's the great. He's the best baseball guy. He's just retired last year Dodgers. He's got the famous call for the Mets and 86 when it goes to buck this legs. Oh, I can say I could like recite call. Ron, you know, he goes, Yo, he's got such a silky voice like I, I don't I don't watch like I had mentioned you before. Like, I pretty much only stick to baseball. I'm know on the outside. I know a lot of people who listen to my podcast, listen to other listeners and they watch sports. They watch also types of sports. And I'm not that familiar with them, though. I'm sure they're familiar with all the names you just mentioned. But yeah, Vince Kohli and Joe Davis are like the two that I really know. Yeah, well, let's go. He's the he's the best. Yeah, he's the best baseball guy ever. I just wanted that America is one of the Vince goalies that had been stolen. Do the field the Dream speech. I said James Earl Jones has yet but I went to Scully do it. I went to Vince Scolese like retirement event at Dodger Stadium, and they had Kevin Costner give that speech, which was weird. The whole thing was kind of weird. They were playing the music Vince cool. He was sitting there it was like yeah, I mean, James Earl Jones does it in the movie. And yeah, he's he's a voice over God. You know? Yeah. God Vader and the Phone Guy the ATL? Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's another voice that's just like could say anything. I want that news delivered by James Earl Jones. Irvin's goalie, I'm cool with that. Absolutely. Today's Yeah. I mean, I've always had like a voice for people will tell me like it's kind of like a broadcasting voice. Oh, yeah. I talk with my hands. And I've always had that kind of voice. But I have a deep New York, you probably even notice it by now. New York accent Yeah, I walk and I talk and I drink coffee. So that kind of because you want a Midwest accent. That's the no accent is a Midwestern accent. Yeah, I was told recently, I have a southern accent. And I didn't really notice it. But then I just literally last week went to a trip to the South. And I was like, I kind of fit in here. Like I say, y'all, and things like that. Okay. Which I'm not like trying to. It's just probably a poor grammar. Yeah, you think about it. Yeah. Yeah, but I when I was watching, watching your videos, but also listening to your content, I was like, he's got something there. Like there's a prior experience, I guess. To what, like a neutral audience member. I was like, oh, yeah, he's got something. That's all right. Yeah. I mean, like, 20 years ago, when I was in college, I worked for the college radio station. I used to do it as a kid to myself. You know, I listen to sports talk radio all the time. So yeah, it's what I always wanted to do. So I learned early that I couldn't play. You know, I wasn't gonna make it to the big leagues. But I knew that I knew everything about the games, and I knew everything about it. And I was, you know, I'm a sports junkie. Yeah, it's my dropping about it anyways, like, I talked to a lot of people that are like, I should start a podcast, I talk about this stuff all day. I listen to talk radio, all this stuff. And I don't know. Do you listen to talk radio, too? I do. Yeah. Like, I'm a big politics guy, too. I'm like, I think that if you can talk sports, politics or current events, you can start up a conversation with anybody. It's true. It's so true. And but most people I found, and I'm generalizing here, but most people, they get, like stuck in the Listening thing, even though they like we'll talk about it, but they actually start a podcast, but you're like one of the rare ones that broke through and actually did the thing that people talk about all the time about doing? Yeah, we I just, I actually the way it worked was because we have a live element to our podcast. Did we do? I was in a mess, Facebook group or something? And this guy, just email, Facebook message me saying, Hey, do you ever want to do a think about doing a talk show? Just because he saw I was talking. I knew what I was talking about. And I was like, absolutely. So he said, I told him, I used to do it in college. It's nice if you have any demo tapes. I said, I don't have any demo tests 20 years ago, and six moves and everything. So what I did was he said put give me five minutes of a show. And it was the day that John Madden had passed away. Oh, wow. So I thought it's gonna be a met show with it. So I was like, You know what, let me just do. I hit record on my phone here. And I started talking myself. And then we're getting 25 minutes. And I was like, 25 minutes and he loved it. He's like, You got good rhythm, you got to pace. So they he said, How about you do the show and they're starting to it's a 365 sportscast is what it is. It's like an online sports talk radio station. And a lot of people don't do this show live. It's pre recorded. I like to do it live. To be honest, if I do a pre recorded a lot of times I can't do it right. When I need the pressure, I need the pressure of the being locked. Yeah, you know, I'm better off like that when the pressure is there to be live. And we'll be practicing something and I screw it up. And then I'll be like, you know, we'll just do it live. And when I do it, it's perfect. Nice. And where are you live streaming to? We live stream two, it's 365 sportscast.com. Our show is just moved last week to Friday nights at 11 o'clock. It's really the only time I could do it because of my job. And it's locked up sports. So I work at Rogers, my buddy is a nurse at the Riverhead Jail out on Long Island. And we do the show out and his his house upstairs is in his like loft area. And it takes me like an hour and a half to get out there with the traffic.

So like I'll work 6am to 7: 10:39

30pm Then I'll truck out there. And then we finish at midnight. And then I gotta come back home to be at work at 6am. Wow. This is how often this is once once a week. Once a week. We do a Yeah, once a week. I would like to add another day in because I feel like I feel like people want to hear new voices in the sports. Instead of just hearing yo Oh here. It's wfh N. And it's ESPN Radio. So there's like 10 guys that you hear talking about the sports, they want to hear new voices. But like when I go on Friday night, and I'm talking about the next disaster that just happened last night, it's now five days in between that. Everybody's heard it. Everybody's heard everybody's take on it. That's old news by now, the next series has started. But that's a big story right here. I'm gonna have to give the nets. So I would like to add another show in the course of the week. And I think we're one of the higher rated shows on that thing. So like, as far as live, people go, he doesn't give us exact numbers. Not a ton, but kind of people. Yeah, but you know, so I think I could probably finagle another night. Yeah. Yeah, I don't even know we've been numbers are saying, Oh, yeah. And you've been doing it for two months? Yeah. 10 weeks? Two and a half months? Yeah. Two and a half months? Yeah. And up to three, just say three months. Do you think it's sustainable? Like given just your schedule? With everything like? Sounds like? It depends. For the last year what we did was last year at work we were doing, I was doing 20 hours. There was no reliefs come in 20 hours. We basically work yeah. 20 hour tours. And when you work 20 hours with no meal. I haven't gotten a meal. Really? I haven't gotten a meal break in a year and a half. Are you a prisoner? Are you the garden? We had the prisoners come up to us and they'll be like, oh, man, like they'll wake up in the morning. A bit is still here. They're watching out for you. It wasn't chips and something. You know, it's getting bad when the inmates are offering when you know it's getting bad. But I mean, and it's a it's a dump I get when I tell people I tell people you ever seen the show locked up abroad? Oh, yeah, I will actually abroad I've seen the locked up. Just the US one. It's like the luck of abroad. It's like wearing a t shirt. It's a story of like a teenager will go on spring break. Oh, she'll she'll put a bunch of coke though someone will convince him to put a bunch of cocaine in her stomach. And she gets arrested on the way back. And she goes in those 10 years and says Rikers is worse. The cells don't work. Like the cells don't work. They don't lock. Yeah, most basic thing. I'm not comparing or anything like that. But I toured la mins county jail once, right. And that thing is like, hasn't been updated in so many years. And it opened my eyes like opened my eyes immediately when he said that. I was just like, cuz I was I was thinking about getting into career law enforcement and you have to do like two years at a correctional facility. And I was like, looking at that. And it was like, I was like, Whoa, and they you know, tore it and they just frown something like so I mean, to be I love it, I love you. But to be in that environment, and then be able to I would say like grind your way to also do the podcast is like, like, it's already enough for people. It's just like, it's just awesome. I just want to like compliment you on that because it's not a small thing to do. You know? And I can everything I've heard you're doing awesome. And I'm like, this is sustainable. Right? Because what I this is like, maybe a dumb question. But why why do you have to travel all that way like you wouldn't be able to do it from home. I live in New York City. I mean like a one bedroom apartment. My wife is here. We have when I when I bought when I got the show I bought I wanted to the worst thing I wanted to have happen was to be you know, have it be low quality, embarrassed about it. I want it to be good. Because I know people have told me forever that I should do this show. I should do sports broadcasting. Everybody knew I want to do it. So I wanted to make sure it was good. So I got the road caster pro Care started the whole package you got I got my buddy's house and your buddy's house catching. If you saw the videos, you'll see we have the arms I saw with the you know, and we got we got the road caster, which is kind of like an all in one type thing. Got that here is that we use Jaya. Love that. So like, I wanted it to be good. So I got all that stuff. My apartment is not big enough. And if we were sitting here at midnight, doing that show the way we do it, and my wife is 10 feet away sleeping to get it. Yeah, I wouldn't have a wife much longer. Yeah, it would be one way or the other. And we know Yeah. That's not fun for anybody. Yeah, my buddy has. My buddy has a house. He has an upstairs. Just him and his father. It's perfect. Got it. You don't have to do really editing afterwards, right? It's just No, the only thing I edit usually is. In the beginning of the live show, I'll do a sports. We do a sports flash, we we play a sound I got a sounder that I made, you know, locked up sports sports flash, and I'll give the scores for the night. It's like a sports update. You know, quick Rangers losing this quick going on the oldest sports tonight. I'll erase that, I'll get rid of that. Because five, five days down the line. If you're listening to my show on Thursday, you don't want to hear the Mets are in the seventh inning on last week. You know what I'm saying? So I cut that out. And then we got one of the we got the voice of the rangers to do hice he does. He does introduction for us, your family greca for Mike, okay, we got him to do that. I have some connections like a friend, that college friend of mine married a next island. So like I have some connections. The guy actually the guy who does the show, who recruited me. He's he's got 20 years, he's got a show going for 20 years here. He's a broadcaster. He's a beat writer for The Islanders. So he's got connections and getting press pass, as you say, and stuff like that. That's incredible. You're kind of works out kind of stepped in it, you know, yeah, you're doing it, you're doing it and gathering information here. So then also, when it comes to when you when you go down to sit to record, do you have? Do you have to do research before you like, would you gotta get to your buddy's house, do research and then hit in there? Or are you honestly, I don't have to do research. It's um, my my buddy that I do the show with, he's actually going to be in Florida because grandma had surgery or something. So he's getting this this week. So I was asking my other buddy, hey, you want to come do it with me? If you want to host the show with me this week? And he's like, Well, I got a bunch of stuff going on. I don't think I have time to prepare. I'm like, listen, what's the Yankee games this week? No, Who's in the lead in the basketball things and be able to talk some ranges. If you can't do those three things, then what the hell we've been doing for the last 20 years? So no, I don't have to do it. I watch the games. I know what's going on. It's my passion. So yeah, I always know what's going on. Yeah, there are some notes I have. You know, we love research. You're like, this is what we do normally. Yeah, like I'm watching. Like, right now, as we're doing this interview, I got the range of game on my boss. Nice, nice. So like, you know, like, I know, like, I know what's going on. Yeah, there are things I gotta have to I have to look up real quick. One of the videos we put out is before the show, we did like a mash up of like, before the show because it's funny. And I'm like, when a Selection Sunday, we don't know, what's the score of the Mets game. And we're scrambling right before the show. But you know, we get it we get it done. Yes, like a mad dash and then all of a sudden we've got love that and and then when it comes to marketing, I got a link to your Facebook group, which you said was the primary place where it's got about 300 Something members and yeah, it's like, three 350 So I think it's up to like 360 Something now nice and that grew all organic. Like just from the mouth or something. Yeah, I mean, I'm pretty I'm known in social media as I'm gonna trouble solder. argue with you. I will I will argue I'm I'm a Democrat. I will argue that these these people, these Republicans just how much trouble started, but I'm not but I'm not an answer that Yeah, yeah. I'm not much of a jerk. But I'm not a jerk. Yeah, like people like when I got passion and intensity sometimes. Yeah. Like one of one of my birthday was less was just this month and one of the girls that I graduate she's like, to the person who starts the most stuff, who I hate, like, can't stand but I respect and I really like and I was like that perfect. Perfect. She said it perfectly. So it's like that, like, I'm known as that. I'm known as the stock trouble on there. I have like, I also take anybody as a Facebook friend. Yeah. Like, I could meet you in the bar. Say Hello, what's up? Facebook friend? Yeah, some people like very. I had like 1200 Facebook friends. I know, like 35 people in real life, you know? I know, right? Yeah, that's like, shoot, you get out. You got me beat. Yeah. And so with the Facebook group, those are people that maybe came from a different like, maybe your Facebook page, you promoted something on there, or you haven't yet. Um, some of them. I know. Some of them have come like, people have told other people I get a lot of people telling me, my buddy told me the other day that he's told a couple of his friends to listen. I've had people telling me that oh, I've been listening the show. You know, people don't even realize. Listen. Yeah. So it's kind of all connected. So that was when when you said like, you're stuck. I think most of our listeners are connected to my core group of people. Somebody knows me that they know or you know, it's not hasn't branched out that far yet. I do have a Twitter. Yeah, I'm trying to get something go viral. I want something to go viral. I just wanted to, I want to say something stupid. But I don't want to be Kim Kardashian. But I like to have something out there that's got 10,000 likes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And in sports, Twitter is a real thing. You know, like, I know, you know, this, but like, sports, Twitter is real, like, in the moment updates and things like that are like they're real. Yeah. People. Yeah. Following gambling. Because people are gambling. They're gambling. They're watching it. It's almost like watching with a friend. You know, when you're watching. Exactly. Twitter. I've I've done that. And also read it. You know, they'll have live game threads about certain things. Yeah. Rather than that. I'm not I got you. I'm read it right. We connected on Reddit. I'm still figuring it out. I'm not positive about Reddit. Like I'll try and post something on Reddit. And then we've deleted the video. Oh, yeah. Well, I didn't phrase the title correctly, or something? Like the format? Yeah, yeah. So I'm still figuring that out. And they're very weary of any promotion. And if there is a place where you can do promotion, it's usually like spam, and he's just like, flooded. So you're not getting everybody doing promotion. Nobody's looking at anybody else's. They go on there. They look, they put their thing up, and then I look at anybody else's. And that's how a lot of Facebook groups are. For podcasts. It's like checking my podcast, but you're like promoting your podcast to a bunch of other podcasters. And nobody's there to like, listen or learn about a new podcast. They're there to promote their podcast. Exactly. And and they're, everybody's there for the same thing. Yeah, but I actually what I did last night on our last show, because the I went to sable High School, which is where we do the show, I grew up there. I went to high school, everything that the the quarterback for Notre Dame, this past year, came from sable High School. So he's, I mean, it's 20 years younger than me, but he came from st my high school. So he is now entering the NFL Draft this week. It looks like he's the you know, he's gonna be like a sixth round pick maybe like a Tom Brady type pick. And or he's gonna be a free agent side. He's not. I don't suspect him of doing anything in the league. But we did a quick little segment on it on our last show on Jack Cohn. So I took that out of the video, and I posted it in all the sable Facebook groups I could find, save more friends save or football save it and I posted it all. And so now that I think that'll get me out because people want to hear that that's they're not gonna be like, Oh, I don't care about these two idiots talking sports. They're talking about Jack Cohen. Yeah, that's our guy. Yeah. Yeah. You don't believe how many people out there like he's gonna be the next Tom Brady. Like, yeah, yeah, but that's really smart on you like and I imagine like just totally judging, but like, are making assumptions I should say is you don't have much of a marketing background other than just like, hey, let's just post post post. Yeah, yeah, trial and error. I don't even like post post like I guess I'm good with social media. Yeah, I'm good. I'm witty. Yeah, quick with stuff. So I I'm good on social media. So I know how to not on social media. I don't know how to do Reddit. Instagram. I think weird. Graham, I think it's kind of stupid because it's just pictures. Tick tock. I started a tick tock for this. All I get his email saying he has videos that you may like, that's my experience on tick tock. But yeah, I'm an old Yeah, I'm an old man. No, Facebook, you know? Yeah. Tick tock. I will say tick tock. When you find a flow that works. It will be unbelievably like useful for you guys like and it could be the simplest flow. It doesn't have to be your face. If you could just do like a little video background with like, either the day or the week's updates. I do. I've been running an experiment on a daily news account I made. And I'm not big on news. Like I just don't. I don't know if I put my energy into like, dumb stuff, I guess. But probably like, I don't know, like other stuff that like, I'm like, one day I was a guy, I see the Yeah, music, but I'm like, I love like marketing, and I love you know, like reading I don't know, I'm just like, kind of like in the clouds. And I'm like, Oh, but I wanted to get more in the news. So I started a news Tiktok of it. You're gonna like, laugh. It's so ridiculous. It's just me reading the top three headlines of the day. And I publish it six days a week, Monday through Saturday. And it's just 1000s and 1000s of subscribers. And it's been like 60 days. And, you know, like, there'll be a day where the video gets 20,000 views. And it's just me like, and I choose the headlines based on like, just go to like, Reuters or readers, Harvey saying, Yeah, Reuters. Yeah, Reuters and Associated Press. And I'll just kind of like, compare the two. And then I'll like choose the headline. Well, that's where all the news get the news exists. Newspapers and stuff don't have their own writers. They just pull it from its Associated Press writer or? Yeah, so I was like, let's go to the source. And, and so that's where I get it from. And it's every video is like 15 seconds. And it's like, not produced. I don't even look at the camera. I don't respond to comments. I don't engage with anybody. I'm like, Yeah, and I just, it's the opposite of like, me and what I do on like, Digital Podcaster Is it a social experiment? And 1000s of Skype subscribers, people, thank you, thank you. This is what I've been looking for. I look forward to this every day. And it's like, I don't look at I've never looked at the camera. And I've never responded to a comment. And the end it grows every day. And and it's like one part social experiment. One part like, you know what happens? It's a little bit of an ego thing to write. Like, oh my god, like 50 people listen to me. No, I literally forget it exists until I have a reminder

in my phone, around 7: 27:06

30am is when I do it. And it takes me about 15 minutes or less. Like I literally forget, I don't check the notifications. I don't look at the numbers I don't look at literally is people out there waiting for it. I literally don't pay attention to it. Because I know that about the ego, like the ego thing. And like the numbers, I get caught up in that. So I don't I forget it exists, honestly, until the remainder goes off. Oh, yeah, I gotta do that. So, you know, record real quick. And then back to and I'll just go on with my life. But I just say that because like tick tock is, is they expose you to a wider audience of people who are already familiar with you? And Twitter, like you get a little bit of that? Instagram. It's it's a grind. And it's like, it's, it's, it's harder. It's all pictures? Yeah. Yeah. Which are easy and quick to make once you kind of get like a template down. But I will say, so check out this news thing. So I did a tic tock account and an Instagram account. What's it called? It's called. And this is actually the first time I said the name on this podcast, because I didn't I like I don't even tell people about it. I don't want to like, make anything I might even I might even be out the name. Because I don't want any like influence. I want it to be like kind of pure of Yeah, yeah. Like, of or of growth. So I almost keep it a secret at this point. But I talk around it, but on Instagram, it's grown to like, I forget like maybe five I'm four or 500 something followers in the length of time the last, I guess, maybe a little bit less time than you've been doing your podcast, but not much less time. Around 500 Something followers on Instagram, and over. I don't know what the numbers are but well over 5000 followers on Tiktok. And the engagement and views primarily on tick tock on the New Zealand on tick tock is just like, incomparable. And that I've just like it's been such a lesson in the exposure to new audiences on tick tock is like unmatched to really especially if you're starting from like zero, which most of us are some people I mean, crazy page, my sister, right, my sister who she basically she has, she has a young young daughter. She basically retired down in Florida with my father doesn't do anything. She has a Facebook page, it's called houseplants, no drama. 60,000 people in her Facebook in her in her Facebook group. And I'm like what? And it's not like she buys you know, because because I sort of thing on podcasts people like you know, people come to you. I guarantee you 505 star reviews and I'm like, Well, I know it's a scam by the way, but I plan I like to I like to like reel him in. So I'll save him I'll be like, Well how do you guarantee 505 star review because I guarantee it if you always guaranteed I go Have, you may get a hold of the 500 people I go into how would you you know, they're gonna all think my My thing is five stars. Yeah. I play with them for a little bit. And then I like to get. Yeah, yeah. But like, I don't want that. I'm not doing this to make money like Yeah, but it's nice that I have like I haven't read yet I've read Yeah, 523 Total downloads. We're averaging now over, like about at the last three episodes about 85 downloads an episode we get, and that's not including Spotify, because Spotify is different for whatever reason. like Spotify doesn't get calculated into one word do my I don't understand it, but I got like five people in Germany that listen every week. I got five Russians that listen every week, rather than take a break from the war. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, but like, when I first started, I'm like, I'm no good with this computer stuff. I'm not a computer guy. I'm not. I can't. I can't hang a picture on the wall. My wife does everything. I'm useless. I'm useless. To my hands. I was like, You're you're working 20 hour days, you're gonna you're useless. You're I could be the correction officer. And I'm a little guy like, I'm like this. I'm like, five. These guys. You know, I just got the pepper spray. Pepper spray. You're doing a lot. You were over there working 20 hours. You're driving an hour and a half. Or you're riding pace, probably. But I love it. I love it. And the one guy this one guy was talking to he actually because my cousin heard it. He's not big into sports. He called me up and he's like, we got you. He's like, you're great. This is a great show. Yeah, we gotta get you an agent. I was like a combat. Yeah. He's like, we're gonna get you anything. And I talked to another guy. And he said, You know what, you know what? It's like a podcast like this. He goes, You are good. He goes, it's like having a band. I was like, you know, what does it he goes you to ask people to come to your concert, you play in at this bar this Saturday, some people come some people won't. You might have been good enough to make it big time. But you never did. For whatever reason. It's like having a band. And I was like, that's a great comparison. That's a great comparison. Great, great comparison. Great analogy. And, and I think it's so true. And with a band, the product is the songs and the performance. Right? And good. Like people that enjoy the band will keep coming back to watch the band. Exactly. And just like a podcast, or just like your podcast, people are returning, which is a great sign that you have a great product inside the podcast. Now. It's like, how do we create more signs that are like, exactly, because we know that your podcast is working? Like we know that the show is working? And like you mentioned, you know, like, it's a little bit of mixed results from getting people to to tell new people about the show without kind of gotta give them an hour of your time. So it's not like a like on Facebook. Get a you. I'm asking you for an hour of your time, which is valuable. Yep. You know, it takes two seconds to like something on Facebook. Yeah, you gotta give me I gotta give you an hour. Yes. Wait, no. Which is why I think one of the biggest secret weapons, not secret weapons, but people treat it like a secret weapon is trying to think of this analogy here. They don't have cascos in New York do that. There. We got Costco. Costco. Really? I don't know if that was a West Coast thing. Or you know how a Costco they have like the samples? Yes. Same exact thing for podcasts, like, before you commit to a Costco size pack to Ketos that has like 500 to Ketos. How about just like a sliver of a tuxedo? And that's not a Facebook? Like a Facebook? Like are those likes, those don't count as trying it to keto? That's like you're in the same realm. Yeah. Because we know. Yeah, algorithms are going to suppress the content. So you know, it's almost like you can't even say likes, I mean, 5000 likes, what does it mean? You know, so giving people, people just a little bit of a taste of your podcast before you ask them to commit because people are generally they get a good idea, like a really good idea in about 15/3 20 seconds. Of if they want the full thing. If they like your voice, isn't it like you're exactly. And there's a simple way though, because I see new. There's a simple way though, like to create that piece without adding more on your plate, or adding more on your Coast plate. That makes it seem like you're just doing a bunch more work. Because that's what's gonna like, especially with like podcasts, and especially with as much as you're doing, like, it's gotta be super easy to do, or else it's not gonna happen. That's like, what it comes down to. And the only way it's going to be easy and happen is if there is some type of repeatable process, some repeatable like template of sorts, where you're literally just plugging in, and it's mindless work. It shouldn't be mindless. Like you shouldn't be able it shouldn't be some artistic like, how do I make the perfect little piece? No, it should just be mindless outsourcing. Here's either. I mean, the easiest. Have you ever used Canva? No, no, I'm like, even with the editing, like, I got the audio editor on my phone. Yeah. And like, I'll use that. And I can get like the the audio files into there and stuff. But like, like he was saying, like I noticed this week because I'm doing it. So trial and error for me. You know, a lot of it's trial and error, like this week, was the first week I was able to line up the audio with the with the video that we made. Okay, so we I put the whole show on YouTube right now I got a huge I just started a YouTube channel, like five subscribers that started like, maybe a week ago. And so what I did was I was proud of it. I was like, Oh, this is great. Let me put it on my Facebook page. So I shared the YouTube video on my Facebook page. And I put it out two days after the show came out. Because I wanted people to download the show. I noticed the download stops. Because now they're watching my YouTube video. They're not downloading the podcast. So I thought now No, I liked it. Because I I worked for like three days to figure out how to line up that audio. Like, yeah, I got the class. I didn't know that. My wife. She's like, I was idiot. And we did it this week, we did the claps and we didn't have the recording started. Okay, that's the beginner. That's, uh, yeah, well, I can do it. I went to colleges, saying I mean, I've made, but I noticed that the download slowed down in the last two days. Because people don't have to download it. Now. They go on my Facebook page, and they can watch and they liked the video better. Because like you said, I'm animated. Yeah, I'm testing. I'm talking with my hands. I'm like this. Yeah. Yeah. So it's more, it's almost more entertaining. But now my downloads slow down. And I'm still like, wrapped up in the numbers, which I know I shouldn't be. Yeah. But I'm still like, Okay, we got, you know, and I'm reading all types of things like how many numbers should I have? And this and that I get them you shouldn't have like, if you have 40 or 50 downloads, that's that's good. They said they said 100 downloads in seven days for each episode up top like 25%. Just crazy to me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure Joe Rogan, you know, I went Joe Rogan footsteps. Like, that's like, you took boxing classes for two months. And you're like, I'm going after Mike Tyson in his Yeah. Yeah, well, as I said, the inmates say to me all the time, they'll be like, get the one. Give me the One and Only I go, Listen, I'm not calling the woman. You didn't even tell me what your problem is. And if they don't get the word and get, that's not how it works. I said, when I have a problem with Microsoft, I don't call up their helpline and go put gates on the phone. I don't do that. And if I did, they laughed me off the phone. So like I get, yeah. You know, I still like I'm checking them. And I'm like, oh, yeah, it's and it drives you crazy. It could drive me crazy. It will, it will drive you crazy, especially over a long enough term. So I but it's natural, like it's totally normal. And most people, I would say like 99% of podcasters. Especially obsess over the numbers. And the problem with that, though, is when you obsess over those numbers, especially in the beginning, especially downloads, it becomes tiring, because you're running like that, speaking of Microsoft, that program in your head of like, am I getting enough? And then over time, it's like, is this really worth it is 50 people is 80 people. And it was 30 this week, but last week, it was 60. What do we do? And it's not a high enough snapshot like you don't have enough data to make any decision that it's the right decision. No, I love the fact that I get to talk to 30 people six Yeah, yeah. But I love that. But the, like the dopamine it like wears off in the head. And 30 like, once you hit a bigger number, say 100. You know, I know. Like, let's just use an example. Not saying in your case, but like 100 people that you're like, well, that's the new normal 100 Is becomes the new 30. And then you're like well, and then you get used to it. All that to say it's totally natural, but at the same time, I always suggest like trying to focus that shift that same energy of like that drive of like, what's going on with subscribers, I would shift that focus to because you already got the bike product good, the podcast, good shift that focus to how can I make little pieces of content for social media in a repeatable way that you can measure? Because I am not going to say like, I don't think it's, I think what whatever you want to do on social media is great. But when it comes to social media promotion for a podcast, there has to be some like baseline So I'm like, Okay, this is this, like, I would obsess over those numbers of like, alright, I posted my weekly roundup clip. And it could be as simple as you just talking to the phone or as simple as a tweet. That's like a way you tweet it. But it has to be repeatable. So it's the same every week. So you can measure it, and measure that. And try and think of like, because the podcast is taking care of like, you don't need to make a good show. I get I know that we have a good chat. People. Listen, I know, it's a good show. Yeah. And now it's just about getting new people and the way I mean, people are already on social media, looking for what you got to incorporate that in their lives. So whether it's a daily thing, which it sounds like, you probably could do, because you're already on social media. It's like, yeah, yes. But why I mentioned Canva earlier, too, is you can make videos on there really easy. What what is it called Canvas, see a N v, A, C, and D, okay. And, you know, you it's not some complicated software, it's got a really, rather short learning curve to figure it out. If you can post to YouTube, you can make a Canva video. And they have templates on there, though. And they have it like Tic Toc templates, the whole thing. And you just go in there and you don't, you don't even have to record yourself talking or anything like that. But what I would recommend doing is a couple things. Number one, asking your audience that you already have on your Facebook group, what they would like more of, and when they give you those responses, like that's the gold right there of like, just listen to those responses, read those responses and go, I'd love some type of, you know, some people will ask for crazy stuff. Some people will, you know, you get all sorts of responses, but you can kind of see it through people out there. Yeah, a lot of weird people out there. And you'll see a through line though, of like, oh, okay, well, maybe all I need to do is post like one video a day. But the cool thing is, especially with social media is what you post on Tik Tok can also be posted on Twitter, and can also be posted on your Facebook group, that one piece of content goes like three places. And before you know it, you'll start attracting new audiences. And the other thing I would say is just make sure that your Twitter, especially your Twitter, but also your Tiktok. And your Facebook group just has like proper links. So when someone goes to the Facebook group, the very first thing they should do is have to like see somehow of how they can subscribe to the show. Yes, yes, that's got to be built in there. I always put like, subscribe. Now what now? What I did was when I first started, I tried to I want to make a website, right? So I try and like I did the WordPress. And like when you went to the, you're gonna do like the wordpress.com, which is little not like punching in code. It's because like it was the blocks. And I was putting stuff in. And it's still out there. And I was so proud of this thing even like it took me like a week to make and then I hit something that disappeared. And I was running around like a lunatic but I got it back. Nice. So then I thought it was good. It was good. And I was I wasn't happy with it. But then I found pod Page Yes page. So I use them now. And it's brilliant. It's 20 bucks a month, the best 20 bucks a month I spent it's 20 bucks a month or whatever it is I put I got the top tier thing. They basically put the page the page that I took three weeks to make nine hours a day and was crappy, they put together in like 30 seconds. And what I really liked about it is they have a message thing where my Pete where the audience can go on and there's a floating microphone, they hit it and they can leave a 32nd voicemail. Now to me I use that as like because in sports talk radio, there's colons now I don't want to I can't have callers because I don't have a screen a call screener and this I use that as my cones. So I'll put I got put up like this just yesterday. I put up on Facebook and Twitter and everything um should the nets tear it down after they lose this thing to Dan three, oh, should they tear it down? Or should they come back and try? Get rid of Durant get rid of Kyrie or come back one more time and try try try for a championship and what I do is I make it so they can't comment on it. Now they can't comment on because if they can, they would just put the comments there. I say go to the go to this one go to my web page and I put a link to a page I say you hit the floating blue mic and give us your take sound off we want to hear from you. You'll be on the show. And I get like you know five or 10 each time. That's great. We play them. We we got a big bump. Last week we I had my best friend from when I was little pass away last summer. So we what we did was we did a tribute show to him. We named the studio after him. We put a nice sign up there my wife made a sign we had his mother on now for people who like aren't don't know him, then, you know, it's a nice story and everything. It's a little sad. But like, I got we got a big audience that I had, like 100 150 people that download. And you know, and that kind of picked it up that kind of got me word around town. Yeah. And and you know, oh yeah, that was great thing we love the show. Now I already had some fans who would go in comments and reviews, I can't get reviews either I can't get people to review and try. And how are you trying for reviews? I basically tell them, hey, you know, I just basically throw it out there. Every time now I don't like to throw all my stuff on social media to be about me promoting my podcast. I'll throw stuff out about like a way after this. I'm gonna put something about how to Rangers later tonight against Carolina and a big game. And like, like my regular Facebook page would be is gonna be on is on that net? Yeah. So like, it starts discussion. So I had discussions and I'll throw shout outs to people. Like, oh, Chris Renya. You know, he had good points today. And like, now people like I had a guy the other day. I got a shout out on the show. Yeah, I got my Facebook group. So like, how many tweets do you think you do a day? If you guess just an estimate, like, three, or four? Yeah. I'm gonna say 25 or something. No, no, I'm not doing like 25 I got Twitter's harder to get followers. I have like 140 followers. I've also done some cross promotion. With other podcasts. I've had a couple of guests on, you know, where they they'll promote it and this and that. And I've done cross promotion where we made a commercial. I don't know if you've sold me a trailer. Yet. We have a trailer that was a one minute commercial I put together. Yep. Somehow through that together with time. Pretty good. So yeah. And, and we do that, you know, hopefully trying to get some extra people. But the sports talk it's it's a busy. It's it's a crowded space, the sports sports podcast, it's Yeah, but the good news is like you always have content, you know, you always have something to talk about. And you always got something to argue about. Or debate about. So, a couple things. And this is, this is like, I don't know, this is I was gonna think of analogy, but they were all coming out bad in my head. But when it comes to promotion, especially self promotion, like the the best way I can explain it, too, when it comes to asking people to do something, especially if it feels like self promo on Twitter, is it's feels weird, it feels weird, because you feel like you're doing it for yourself. You're doing it for your ego. But the truth is like you have to connect it to like, your other listeners, and especially like you've already got a Facebook group going, like think of it is you're just growing your army like you're growing the Bob Walters army, like, you know, and you are recruiting and any like, way you're gonna recruit is just by simple like, there's not to be any weird, like, Hey, how you doing? What's going on? It's just literally like, click here to get the most kick ass sports updates of the week of your week. And then the link that's like, it doesn't need to be people you know, people are they click it and they go on like, yeah, you know what, because like, I have like, my cousin works for ESPN. He does seem like he knows everybody there. My wife. She works at a you know, at a dentist's office where there's like famous people come in and stuff like sports players and stuff. So I can get guests and stuff. People tend. My show is a little different than a normal podcast, a normal podcast, a lot of times it's long form interview, like this, like what like what we're doing, or it's like, a niche thing about one subject. Mine is like a sports talk radio show. Mine is like the sports talk radio show the two guys making the mad dog. I don't know if you know them, but my cousin their dog, it would be it would be them, you know, six hours a day. That's, that's what I do. Because that's what I've always wanted to do. And that's what I'm good at. Yeah, it's been good, because you'll notice we'll go from basketball, to baseball to the hockey, and then we'll throw in something. Yeah, we'll have some kind of funny back and forth. The two of us like we did a whole thing on Eric Church. I don't know if you would know who are in churches. He Yeah, he canceled his show. Because he's a big UFC fan. We did a whole four minute thing. It's on the YouTube chat. It's hilarious. And people loved it. And I even I like laugh at itself. So like, like we did that. And that was good. Because that was like a little piece, a three minute piece of content that I put up and people loved it. That is the perfect piece for Twitter. And that's like that that little piece right? There is a perfect example of something that you could just have that clip you could spice it up on in Canva or just straight to the platform like you don't even maybe need to spice it up. With anything else. You just upload it to Twitter, YouTube, and the Facebook group and the Trick, though, if you're if this is same idea across all the platforms is having a hook of something about air church, and it's got to be something that like, if you're just scrolling by, like what would make you stop and go like, wait, I know what's about to be in this video. If there's no context, then it makes no sense. But yeah, headline. Yeah. Or something that's debatable. Like, was Eric Church in the wrong or something like that? Yeah, I think why did I think I said every country music superstar final for controversy? Yeah. Something like that. Yeah, like the same idea with like a news headline where they, they capture you in and another one we had was I had like six months ago, I had a cold. So I had a couple of drinks. And I had ordered tickets to the first and second round of the NCAA Tournament in Pittsburgh. So I had these tickets, I spent like 700 hours on the Twitter, it was like two months away so that when we started doing the show, I was like, I got these tickets to Pittsburgh. Yeah. And like, we did a whole little skit on that. And I had them. And I'm like, my wife doesn't want to go, she wanted to go in the beginning. But then I told her, Hey, this is a basketball trip. There's four games this day, there's four games that they she was like, I'm not, I'm not going, I'm not interested. So I got stuck with these tickets. And we did a whole there's a video of that on our YouTube page, where it's all like, it's a little skit. It's almost like a little sidebar that we get into. And it's good that funny. Like, we're funny, like, we're good back and forth. Everybody always tells us they like our Dynamics, you have a good dynamic, because we're arguing each other. We've been friends forever. You know, I've been friends with those kids since we were five years old. Yeah. And so and just to bring a full circle, because I know we got to jet here in a minute is, is the goal with bringing in new people, which podcast nailed, the goal of bringing in new people is creating those little clips that you're already doing. But putting those on the right platforms, and just consistently in a way that they know also, because essentially, too, with social media, if you do it right, they're getting hooked on your social media, but then they're gonna go into the deeper long form, which is an hour is still long form, you know. So yeah, getting them hooked on the social media, because it sounds you've already got those bites. But now just putting them on those different platforms is like a solid next step, that would be what I would suggest. 100% is like, treat it like a little media platform. And though social media is tough, Twitter is tough to get your thing seen. It's your hashtags. And then I'll hit the stuff and it'd be like seeing by 35 people. Yeah, like every once a while, I'll have one where it's like, bam, it blows up. And I get like 100 likes not even on this, this is before I had it just I'd throw something out there. But like Twitter, I'll do something. And it's funny, and it's really, and it's like two likes, and nobody sees it, I think do you have to? Is it better to comment on somebody famous thing, rather than put out my own tweet? No, actually. So it's will kind of so it's actually best to do a predictable piece of content that people like when people follow you, they usually want some type of like idea of what they're going to get. And you can only do that over a length of time by doing a similar piece of content, like in the same way. So if that's why it's best to do, like for the news count, for example, people know, at a certain time, that I'm going to do something in a certain way. It's like, we're just humans, you know, we're animals who are like, You tell us the how to how something's going to be and we want to be if someone was like, you know, the Mets game is at 7pm. But then it starts at maybe like eight and they started playing basketball, you'd be like, What the hell's going on? So with social media and Twitter, it's like, you got to just keep not that you can't like be you want to be yourself, but be like, have predictable elements into it. So there's at least one thing like I say, one of the three tweets you do per day, just have it be like some type of informational thing of like, this was the update for this. Well, yeah, now that you even mentioned that that's how I didn't even realize it. But that's how my Facebook became. If something would happen in either politics or sports, and I if I didn't say I'd come out of work because we can't have our phone in jail. People would be like, I'd have things like where's the post about this? Where's the post about this? We expect the How can we haven't said something about this yet? That's how my Facebook became people expected something Yep. They would they went on to see my my post. Yeah. So I already got back kind of follow. Yeah, and do more of that. And that's on like Twitter. And when it comes to commenting real quick on other people's pages on the big pages, you get lost in the noise, like if it's a really popular one, you get lost in the noise. So I would suggest looking for a more targeted following, which is typically people with a lower number of followings. Typically like I would say 30,000 and under All right, because you're gonna be more likely to be seen as you grow your own page, then it will be easier to branch out. But if you like, go after the Joe Rogan's right immediately onto it's like, it's like trying to jump too high on the Twitter game rather than like, one peg at a time. And they have to be like, ideally, they're in your, your, your audience realm, because people love reading the comments, you know, and they'll naturally click your profile and then on your profile should be a link to the podcast, right there. And like that should be clear of yep, there is there is about now what should I be linking them to? Now his that's another question I had like, because I got a million different things like I link I like to link everybody to my, my, my pod page that I bought a domain, I bought a domain that's got all my stuff. I do it with I do it with POD service. FM is who broadcasts, I guess, my RSS feed or whatever. But they give you a little garbage website or whatever. That's garbage. Yeah. So who actually to my blog page pages? Yeah, pipe pipe, link them to there. And then on your social medias, or just say social media is, there should be basically what you need is like, some type of schedule, like it should be every Tuesday, because people won't be like, oh, here comes Tuesday. Again, he's gonna say this thing. But like, internal, like in your reminding them and even if they're already part of your Facebook group, they don't mind seeing it. Because they'll be like, yeah, let's get more people in here. Because people want to build their tribe, which you've already created. So like every Tuesday or Yeah, it's today's Tuesday, every Tuesday have a call to action on social media about you know, join. And then I'll put the number because that's a respectable number. Join a tribe of 300 ad creatives it like give them like crazy name like some crazy mofos. Yeah, in this Facebook. Yeah, I know what you're talking about. They call their followers like Jim Rome. I forget what he called but he calls his followers something. Just minions or some whatever he does. Yeah. And what's your take on like merch, see, look, I got, oh, yeah. Love it, love it. And I'll just say this, to link Yeah, link to the pod page. Shout outs to if you're able to, in the episode to have like mentioning the Facebook group, every now and then. And then also linking like, so say, if you were doing on Tuesday, shout out to like the Facebook group. Every like Thursday or Friday, separated a little bit of a link or whenever the show like new episode out everything is an event basically. And also, you could, like on Tuesday doesn't have to be only like, click here to join all these people. You could screenshot a comment from the Facebook group, and then put it on Twitter and be like, I've done that. Yeah, look at what so and so said, come join us in the Facebook group and then link to Facebook group. When it comes to that in the beginning. I was like, what do you do? I was like getting this. Everybody over here. You miss it all the action, all the actions on Facebook, I actually did that. But now that you mentioned I did that in the very beginning. Yeah. And it's just, it's just repeating those things. It's like, that's why it should be like a little bit mindless and a little bit boring in a way because it shouldn't like require, but all these little things will add up. Because if you just did that once a week, over time, it's going to compound because you're putting out content and all that stuff that I was doing too is like on the I get to my buddy's house sometimes at nine o'clock, right? So now the show is 11 is I'll go create a quick video. It'll almost be like a commercial like, Hey, join us at 11 joint Brett and myself at 11. As we go over the ranges blowing up to Carolina and the Yankees win. That's lose coming up at 11 We'll talk to you we'll talk to you later. Something like that real quick commercial. That Yeah, throw you know. Yeah. And like quick reactions and all those things you can easily do on on Twitter, but also tick tock too, is like, if you just literally recorded like a seven second thing of what you're gonna say on Twitter as well. You're gonna find your audience growing really fast. Yeah, really fast. Okay, when it comes to merch. Do you guys have what? No, no, I'm not looking at like I did my 300 follower, a 300 member of the 29 members 300 member gets gets a shirt. Nice. So bam, someone liked it. And I was like, I was like, How was this guy? Not a member already. It's like one of my friends. So I said, yeah, we'll send them a shirt. My wife made this my wife got the Cricut machine. So she's all about that day. It's like the way you make the shirts and the mugs. Oh, nice. Oh, yeah. The Cricut like it's like a kind of like a screen printer thing. Yeah, I don't know how it works. But yeah, you got it. Yeah, I will say this about merch, especially for everyone listening to it is expensive if you buy it ahead of time. Typically the best things to do are mock ups which are easy to make. You can also um, just hear this like a Canva commercial. It's not on Canva you can make mock ups to like the logo over the thing, though. The smartest way to do merch is just pre orders. So you got have the money up front. People are familiar with pre orders these days. Nobody's like they make it. Yeah, nobody's like I need it to in two days, it's like no, no your Amazon. So you can do pre sale, pre orders, and then just be upfront be like, hey, this will this will take, you know, six to eight weeks to get to you. But there and, and I'll just say this. I know you're like I'm not doing make money but like, but I know. But But I love I make good money, but I don't want you know, but I would like it to be successful. Yeah, this becomes another step where it's gonna be money. And the goal is that, like it pays itself to be the self sufficient running thing. And the easiest way for that to happen is by a lot of people joining as subscribers and interacting with what you're doing, like that's the tension is already starting to grow on your podcast. And now it's just about fueling that. And that's going to be through social media. Like at the end of the day, that's what it's going to be through is that the Patreon stuff? Page. So Patreon is like a paid subscriber. So that's, that's one way it means like, it's like you run a subway train with a thing going, Hey, you got a couple of bucks. You got a couple bucks. So like, who's gonna money? People who paid hundreds of 1000s of dollars per month? Just to hear crazy? Yeah, who gets a lot? Yeah, a whole lot of a lot of people. There's the most I want to make money with this, I'm like, I'm like I'm like most most people in podcasting. In doing like, stuff like that. It's like, because it's a passion. It's like, cool. And I'm like, but if you can keep doing it, it's like with the band. It's harder, it's easier for a podcaster to make money than it is for a band to make money these days. Like bands have to like they gotta fight they it's like a normal credit thing. You can draw someone in easier with a common topic or things like that, yes, this podcast to get them to go to the bar, pay the cover fee. Oh, it's so much to ask for like, and even during 2020. Everyone's locked down like nobody's live streaming their concerts like as much as they thought they would be. So yeah, with podcasts was way easier. And so So Patreon. So to think of like an crossover here. There is a podcast that I used to listen to way more, it's called effectively wild. They are a baseball analytics podcast. They nerd out about stuff. They'll be like, what would happen if all the players on the field were Mike Trout, and like, they'll run the numbers. They're like baseball nerds. And it's super interesting to look or listen to. And they have a Patreon. They have a bunch of subscribers. So they might be worth checking out just seeing how they do things. But you get a separate episode or something, right? Yeah, so you get like maybe an app, you can get an ad for each episode, a mini episode, there's, I have like a thing called Start A Podcast Academy. And it's like, I have like a whole sheet of like 30 things you can give a premium subscriber, I can't premium subscriber Patreon because they have like, different memberships. But yeah, there's like a ton of things you can give them. And it's basically just a little bit extra. And the best things to give them are typically things that don't cost you a bunch of time. Because that's again, like all of these little things that just drains on your time. Yeah, it's all I basically everything is and the quickest way to grow it is of course to get help with that, but getting help costs money. So that's why Mike monetizing and making money is great. To help grow it even more. With that being said, Patreon is a great route to go. But typically people especially in the early stages will be like, you're trying to rip like people are very susceptible to like feeling like they're being like, taken advantage of. Well, yeah. Why am I gonna pay for Bob? I hit Bob talked about sports all day, every day. And yeah, he's always talking about sports all day. Why am I gonna pay for it? Exactly. So stupid asking them to. Yeah, yeah. And so it's typically not like, you switch over to like, some paid thing. It's like you just keep going what you're doing. If if you feel like Patreon is maybe a smart move to go, then it's typically like an addition to what you're already doing. Because you don't want to disrupt the thing that's like, you don't like when when Howard Stern has made me think of a New York example. When he was like, wish which to Sirius XM. He got a bunch of subscribers. But I mean, he's lost a lot and like it, just windows it attrition is like, I don't even hear Howard Stern that much in the news anymore. You're right. You're right. You're right. So you almost kind of went away. Yeah, just as diehard fans and people are like, Why would I pay for that if I could get all these podcasters they're like podcasting kind of wipe his name out of the news and a lot of ways because people talk about podcasters. Now they don't really talk about Sirius XM hosts. So it also everybody has a podcast. It feels everybody. I think everybody has probably everybody in sports like every sports podcast. They're on radio for six hours during the show. No, no. And then the podcast. They're packed. This is like an interview thing, but this Okay, I will say this, this is someone I literally work at pocket like I work in podcasting. And the analogy I can give you is, is, and this is I'd say this to anybody who says this is the idea that everybody has a podcast is like me telling you everybody is in prison. You're right. You're right. I don't know anybody who has a podcast. I said that to you. But I don't know anybody. You know, everybody says that. Literally. I see it all the time on comments. They're like, Rick, we need one more Podcast. I'm like, What are you talking about? That's like saying, we like there's so many businesses out there like, bro, we got too many pizza restaurants in New York. Can we? Absolutely. So I made that comment to you. And then I was like, I don't know anybody. Here all the time. I love it because of like, what? But, but it's one of those things. It's like perception. There's the perception that everyone has a podcast. I'm like, No. Also, out of those number of podcasts, people have podcasts, you should see the number of people that actually stick with podcasting. That's why at the beginning, I'm like, Alright, how you doing? Are you over? Like, are you stressed? Are you overwhelmed? Is this let me get No, I love it. I enjoy it. Yeah, because the biggest thing with people with podcasts is they can't stick with it. And then they can't stick with it long enough. Where it breaks through and makes starts making the money. So all the things we talked about, basically today are like checking in making sure you're good. And obviously you're good there. And the product is good. The podcast is good. You've got social media already kind of like, you're like stoking the fire, I guess his word. And yeah, and now it's just about like forming the way of like thinking like, Okay, if someone isn't aware of the podcast, they're going to come on your social media, they're going to interact with it, somehow, they'll see it because you're active on there. And then they'll naturally be like, Oh, let me check out what this link is. And then once they're in there, they're hooked. Because we know the products get. So it's just about like, just a couple tweaks with the social media, staying consistent with it. And remember, it's not self promotion, it's just simply making people aware of it. And the biggest compliment that I get that I love that means the most to me is when somebody says and I've had many people say I don't like sports. But I love your show. Yeah. And to me, I mean, I guess if you love sports, you're gonna like if you're gonna like my show, I know what I'm talking about. I can be funny. I'm entertaining. Yeah. But people that are like, I don't even like sports. But I love the show. I'm hooked on it. I had somebody say I can't I find myself waiting for the new episodes come out. And I'm like, wow, it feels good. Like somebody's waiting for this episode to come out. Now, and I guess the numbers are why 10 weeks? 500. Something that is that good. I mean, I'll say I'll just say it's great. And it doesn't matter. Honestly. Numbers, it doesn't matter, because there's nothing to compare it to you like, the reason why I say it's great is because all of the other things like you're working, you're like, you got a wife, like you're live like you're doing all these things. And you're podcasting. That's like what we have to compare to. A lot of people don't do that. So that's awesome. The numbers, of course, we want to see like, overtime, we'd like to see an increase. But that's it's going to start increasing, you know, yeah. And so that's why I say like, I would focus more on like, figuring out, like, if you can hook the social media, like if you can kind of crack that code, you've already cracked a podcast code. If you can crack the social media code, you're going to find you'd be like, Oh, these numbers are exponentially, it's way easier. And it's easier to get feedback, instant feedback on social media than it is a podcast. Anyways. So that's why like, it's like, just, I would just go Twitter Tiktok in that Facebook group, just focus on keep it similar content across the three, you don't have to like, vary it too much. And just like, keep stoking that fire. And like, you're gonna be on your way. I'm excited to like, keep following and watch your growth. Well, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast, Bob. And thanks for letting us take a deep dive into your podcast. Thank you again to Bob Walters, and locked up sports for coming on the podcast today. It was an honor. And I hope you found value in what we chatted about. And some things that you can implement in your own podcast. There's a lot of fun, and there's a lot more to come when it comes to conversations like that. Once again, if you are interested in starting growing or monetizing your own podcast, go to digital podcaster.com Make sure you are subscribe to the podcast Digital Podcaster on Spotify, Apple podcasts, YouTube, basically everywhere it just Digital Podcaster pretty much any platform you use on social media and podcasts. And yeah, that's it for this week. It would mean the world to me if you would leave a rating and review. I do my best to deliver as much value as I can in this episode. And if you found value in this episode, review goes a long ways and support the show. So thank you for doing that. And I will See you next week we got another fun episode about podcast coaching conversation so I'll see you next week