Welcome to Digital Podcaster. I'm your host Dylan Schmidt. So what do you do when you want to grow your podcast? You put in the time and energy to make it great, but you're not quite sure where to get more listeners. In this episode, I'm speaking with Joanna Carrillo, who is the host of the podcast letter to my ex. Joanna has been podcasting for about a year now. And her biggest problem has been getting a show off the ground. You might have seen an Instagram Live I did with Joanna a few months back where I broke down how she could monetize her podcast. This is a fun conversation all about how to attract listeners, how to promote your podcast, and how to make it stand out on social media. I'm sure you're going to enjoy it. Here's my conversation with Joanna Carrillo, the host of the podcast letter to my ex. Thank you for joining me on the podcast today. Joanna, I am so excited. You're here. And your podcast letter to my ex. How long have you been doing your podcast for and two days on May 4 will be my one year anniversary. That's amazing. One year and today so by the time people are hearing this, it will have been your one year anniversary. Do you have any special plans? You're gonna get a tattoo? Oh yeah. I'm gonna get letter to my ex on my forehead, forehead. Okay, if you get on your forehead, I'll go under my eyes, maybe post. A little teardrop, just to jump but it'd be the heart of your logo. I love it. I love it. I'm nothing special. But I am doing this like may 4. Yoga. I so it's like, oh, like Jedi themed I guess and I don't know. I'm excited about that. Jedi themed yoga. I have never even heard of this. So I'm just gonna wear space buds and hope for the best. That's all you can do if you do it into the Yeah. Holy cow. That sounds awesome. I've never heard of that. I've heard of goat yoga. You're that my sister did goat yoga once and she was drunk the whole time. So it was like not yoga. Just like trying to find a goat tip. I have low expectations for goat you know, right? Yeah, that's that's probably the the right thing to do. Like how, yeah, goat? Yeah. Oh, I love that. Awesome. So podcast experience so far. overall positive. How has it been going? It's it was, Oh, man. It was a journey. It was really tough. I feel like I was the person who came into podcasting who was like, everyone has a podcast, so I could do a podcast and it's gonna be easy, breezy, lemon squeezy. And then I'm like, Oh, my gosh, like what is Audacity? And what are these edits? And how do I have my own website? It was, it was a lot of challenges that I did not expect. So seeing my one year anniversary come up has been like, life changing for me. Like being like, wow, how did I come from episode one with terrible audio quality to one year later and still some my bad was just a million times better. What made you want to start a podcast? Given like, like, yeah, what, what What made you start your podcast? So it kind of was based on that whole? Well, everybody has a podcast. So me my twin were talking about that were like, everyone has a podcast. And I was like, Yeah, but I wouldn't know what to talk about on my podcast. So that was like December, I think. And then come February, I was cleaning and I found a letter I wrote to my ex, like stuffed in like some random box. And I was like, oh, gosh, this is terrible. And it got me thinking like, who else writes a letter to their ex during breakups or something like that? And I don't know why I went on podcast to think about it. And then I found, like, a few episodes, but nothing dedicated, like a straight podcast series dedicated on letters to exes. And then I was like, Okay, I throw the idea around with my friends. And I was like, hey, what if I started a podcast about letters to your exes or something like that? And they're like, Oh, I actually wrote a letter to my eggs if you want it, and I was like, other people do this, too. Like, it's not just me. So I just started the podcast. And that was kind of like, my momentum, I guess, was just finding that letter. And kind of writing letters back then someone mentioned like maybe you were meant to have this podcast, like, writing your letters back then led you up to this moment of having your podcast so Yeah, that's how I kind of got started. So you so when you were thinking about starting it, you went and you searched podcasts like, like, so did you just Is that what you searched the words to like you search the words letter to my ex or? Yeah, nice, nice. And then there was no podcast by that name. There was like a few episodes, but no podcast by that name. No. Sweet. Awesome. And were you publishing wheat? Did you have like a blog before your podcast? Did you have anything you were doing? No, nothing? Just, just like personal right into the podcast? Confidence. I love it. Yeah, because a lot of I've seen from, you know, like, a lot of people will start with publishing on social media. And then they're like, yeah, maybe we'll start a podcast. And then, you know, it's not uncommon to that they'll just, they will be people like yourself to where it's just like, skip right to the podcast, which is like, it's interesting. I find that interesting. Because a lot of people, when they share social media content, then they get into the, well, everyone has a podcast. And also, they'll say something like, well, who will listen to me for like that long. And then I think that's interesting, because you kind of bypass that. Just go straight from like, who cares if you read me for like, 10 seconds, or whatever social media posts might be too straight to like, I listened for 30 minutes. Like, Was that scary? At first? It was scary. So when I had the idea in February to do it, I like, had so much like doubt and all that stuff. So it's February. Yeah, my one year anniversary is May. So February, March, April, May took me three months to actually go from idea to execution. And I think the first time I recorded myself, I was like, Oh, my gosh, like, no one definitely wants to hear my voice or what I have to say now is even worse than I thought. So it was scary to be kind of vulnerable to the aspect of other people hearing my voice. And like, when I get feedback, like you have such a nice voice, I'm like, are we hearing that same thing? Is it just me? Yeah. I can relate with that. Someone just told me the other day, like your voice, something like ASMR? And I was like, That is not my like, I mean, not what I hear at least not what I hear. But sure. Yeah. Yeah. So in your your format is, obviously you talking and then you'll have guests on as well. Depending on if they say yes to an interview. So I keep it, it's up to their choice. Like it's their letter, it's their, their hearts, they want to share. And I know, some people are, like giving the letter is already a lot of vulnerability. So an interview is like, too much for some people, or they just aren't ready to share their feelings. Like I've had one where it was like, she broke up the day after she wrote me the letter. I was like, yeah, she was ready. But she was like, I'm not ready for an interview. And I was like, Okay, I respect that. So my format varies like drastically. Like, some letters are short, some letters are long, some have interviews, some don't have interviews, some have questions that, like I send to them, and they answer and I read it, so it just varies. That's awesome. That's awesome. And the people that you've had on have they do they have? Have you found that they've had previous podcast experience? Like they've been on a podcast before? No, um, maybe. I think just one person had podcasting experience, but everyone else was sorry to hear that. Okay. Like when it's going on up there. Everyone else has just been like friends or family or random people that are like, I just found you on the internet or something like that, and have no experience that I've seen. And then I'm like, wow, okay. Very nervous when you talk to him. Are they like? Yes. And it's, it's scary because I'm nervous too. I'm like, yeah. Like, okay, I get like, don't worry, we're just like talking as friends. I'm like, You're the one giving me advice. I'm sorry. I should be giving you advice that you got this is so honest, and like so true. And I just want to say like, I know, people listening will 100% relate with that. You know, and that's how it is in the beginning, too, especially with podcasts, right? You're like, I mean, people just assume that you're supposed to be this calm. for them one of, you know, like this, this is this is my podcast, it's like, they almost expected like they're coming into your home or something, and you don't experience any nerves or something. And then you started talking to them, and you're almost you're kind of forced to comfort them in some way. You know, and that makes for a better podcast to rather than you both, like extremely nervous. But sometimes they can't tell us I don't know, sometimes the person listening might not be able to tell. I don't know. It's not like there's right or wrong, but there's no way of like, smoothing out those nerves before you press record. You know, I was talking with a friend recently, and he was just like, basically, like, how do I not get nervous before I record a podcast? Like, I don't think you need to, like how do you just record it? You know, like, it's gonna, it's gonna be I mean, it's all different with different guests that are talking by yourself, depending on your mood, depending on like, so many variables, like, can't you can only plan so much. But you know, I don't know. Sometimes nerves aren't a bad thing, you know? Yeah. Keeps you at the ball. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And what's, what's the worst that can happen? You know, I mean, the worst that could happen, actually, is that you lose the recording. That's probably the worst case. And you like spend all this time setting up something, scheduling it. And then yeah, but I don't want to or hitting forgetting to hit record. Huge one. Yeah, that's a great one, too. That is a great one, too. And I have auto record, I use Zoom for the interviews, and I hit auto, like, have it auto record, just because I don't trust myself. But the same time, you know, you never know. You never know. Alright, so podcasting. You've been going for a while what episode number 81. I think 28. Awesome. Awesome. And in. And as far as growing the podcast, from from what you shared with me, just growing an audience has been kind of the biggest obstacle at the point at this point. Is that right? Yes, it has. Awesome. And do you. Let me ask you a couple questions. And I swear it's all related, even if it doesn't seem exactly related. But what do you love most about your pod? Like doing your podcast? Not necessarily the content, but the act of podcasting, I guess. Oh, good one. No, that's just the interview. You don't know the answer. No Wrong answer. But like, I'll give you some starter starter ideas. It could be like talking with people. It could be you love like most about your podcast is, you know, learning more about a certain thing. Maybe it is the ability to share a certain message. Something like that. Maybe. I think I kind of content related. So I don't know if it's like, oh, it's all related. Yeah. I promise. I think my favorite part about it is hearing other people's stories. And also the feedback I get based on those stories. Like someone will be like, Oh, wow, I really resonated with this other person. And someone will also be like, well, I resonated with this episode letter. And just, it just feels like, in some way, we're kind of like, all connected. And like, there's little pieces of every letter to that I could connect with and it just makes me feel like it makes me want to let people know that they're not alone. Like going through breakups. Sometimes it feels like no one understands what I'm going through. Or, like, you just have this, this feeling of being alone, I guess. And I just that's what I also want for my podcast is like people to not feel alone never resonate with one another to find that community within each other. Santa answered, like, was that even an answer? Epic? is bringing the world together. I mean, yeah, just, you know, fill, fill that feeling of emptiness that I know we've all felt at, like, one point or another in our lives, and feeling that togetherness and you know, I guess we're more connected than ever but feels more separate sometimes too given how I mean a lot of different reasons, I guess but especially relationships wise, you know, like, do the random sight question do the do the people that share or is everything I know it's called letter to my ex but do people ever share about some someone else in their life um, A or is it an always attrition tips? It's usually relationships. But a few people I'm having on soon are going to talk about just like, like their mental health and like someone's writing a letter to their XL. Oh, nice. And like the journey that yeah, I was like, that's nice. Like the journey that they're going through or looking back at how much they've changed. So I guess that that one might be one. But it hasn't been like letter to my ex friend or anything like that. But I've heard some people like have written letters to their ex friends, I just haven't received those letters. I have a feeling that you'll Well, you're not even I have a feeling. I mean, it's obvious, you'll never run out of content. As long as these people there's gonna be exes is like, you know, of course, we all wish, like, you know, we just stay in relationship, but it's like life, it's the human condition. So, yeah, I guess that like you necessarily always have to, like go searching too hard. But this kind of leads all back to this main kind of obstacle of growing your audience, you know? And then as far as the parts of your podcast that you don't really like, like, what? Not that like, you, like hate it or something, but just like, what are the things you dislike about it? Or doing I should say? Is it it's kinda like, terrible to say, I don't know. But yeah, Instagram, I don't, I would like Instagram. It's hard. I'm not consistent. And I think it obviously shows that I'm not consistent. Like, it's a very, it's like, I'll go through like those phases of like, oh, wanting to pose or feeling the need to post. And I just don't want to post useless information sometimes, or like, random things that aren't heartfelt, or like, I'm not giving my all like, I feel like it's shown like if I'm not giving 100% And people know, it's like, bad content, I guess. So. Yeah, that makes sense. In especially because your show is so heart driven. You're talking about some of the Rost things that someone could experience in their lifetime that they might think about their whole entire life. And then you're making content around that and sharing it. You want it to be representative and, like, actually meaningful, I guess, it seems like I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not trying to like mansplain or something. I'm just explaining like, I'm like thinking out loud, of why, like, what you're kind of sharing, you know, and I'm like, Oh, this, this is how it makes sense in my brain. I don't know if that's yeah. And I feel like too, I have like the imposter syndrome, like who am I to talk about, like, relationships? Like, I tell people about my podcast, and they're like, Wow, did you graduate and like psychology? And I'm like, No, I did it. Far from it. Like, you're very analytical. Yeah. And yeah, that I love that. Like, I love that, because I can relate with it. And so what, when you find yourself going to make content? Take Instagram out of the equation, but just like making content in general? Do you find yourself like feeling like you have to be an educator or like some type of teacher? Or do you find yourself like from a different angle? Like, what, what, what comes up for you when you're like making content around your podcast, whether it's promoting it? Something like that? Does that make sense? It's kind of a vague question. educator. I don't I think we kind of talked about this on like, the live that I'm just the segue or the platform to help people finding those ways, or I'm just the platform to help people like, release their emotions. So I don't feel like an educator. Like I'm not educating somebody. Yeah, I obviously don't have like, the qualifications or something. But you're like the the transmitter, you know, like, yeah, yes, I think so. Yeah. And are you using any of the? Well, I know, because it's only not just us. I'm asking you, I'll ask you some questions. I know the answer to because I know you more than most people I talk to you on here. So I know you're doing Twitter. Is there any other platforms that you like? Or that you're active on I should say, Oh, I'm barely active on Twitter, like this whole like 30 days I'm trying I'm like, this is like terrible content. corndog today. Posted I've tried tick tock a little bit. You like it? It's hard. It's like, I don't know. I think I go through that impostor syndrome again, like, yeah, point, point, point point, like, what are my pointing things? Like, what do I have to talk about that I could point to? Or like, yeah, I tried the whole reading my letter thing. And I'm just like, how do I edit this? I don't like it. I said, Oh, and all these things. And then I have my website, but I'm not really active on there. Because it's just my hosting platform. Like your podcast, do us pod page or something like that, or? No. I like, just to Squarespace for the space RSS thing. Perfect. Awesome. Yeah. It looks. Thank you. It took like months. Yeah. I believe that it looks like Yeah. Yeah, it looks great. So what do you in your like, there was like a blank slate. And you were doing something in addition to your podcast, to share the message? Do you have any, like, idea or vision of what that might be? Because I know you said, Instagram is hard. It's like there's a lot there. And Twitter's kind of the same or maybe like, I don't know, like, I guess not, like lit up by which I totally get it, I think is super common. And I think it I'm not saying like not judging, like, good or bad or anything like that. But like, what, what is fun to you? Like, what would you like to do? Oh, good question. Um, um, I think maybe like, I don't know if there's other I think I've heard about discord. It's like a chat. It's just chatting, right? I feel like that would be fun. I have thought about Facebook, like, groups. But I also have a fear that people are like, I don't I also, too, I don't like Facebook, like, I'm barely on Facebook. But the fact that people are like, oh, so and so commented in this group or something and thinking, like from a writers or an audience perspective, and being like, Oh, I just broke up my, my boyfriend, and then someone's like, Hey, Julie, I saw you commented on the group, how are you? I saw you broke up with Jim. And it's like, I worry about that, too. But just finding that community, I think would be, I will say, luckily, and you can change the setting, so it doesn't show up. On people's, I believe Facebook is constantly changing the setting. So depending on when someone might hear this, or depending on right now, they might change the setting right now. Because it seems like every week they change something, but I believe it is if you set it to, like private, it won't show up on other people's pages, but just like verify that but there is a way that if what's shared in the group isn't published on like, that isn't blast out to their friends. I have moderated a few Facebook pages that like have to be very private information. And yeah, like, last thing you want is something but at the same time, because Facebook changes the settings. It does have to like I think it a little I'm just saying for anybody interested, like you do want to have at least a little bit of a disclaimer, like, this is Facebook, you know, they could change the setting, you know, so just be mindful of that. And I guess all I'm saying is there's a lot of a little a little bit of moderation that goes into a Facebook group because you know, someone might share something and then they're like, I thought this was you know, and it's like they could say something bad about someone that an addict or something like that it gets there's you know, quite a bit of moderation that could go into that. Especially if it's relationship stuff, you know, like that jerky stole my dog or like something you know, and then it's like, what I saw that you know, setting or you know, whatever, something you just take into consideration so so just marketing in general is kind of like a I don't like is it do you think it's because it's you doing it like do you think if if it wasn't under you like if you if it wasn't like your face if it wasn't your if if you weren't the person behind the camera, would it be easier Do you think? Good question. Um, No, it's weird. I feel like I'm like this that. Because I feel like I could connect with people or like, I'm very empathetic and sympathetic. And that makes me that good. Transmitter was the word you said. So being that person, I feel like I like being involved. I just need to have the courage to do. So So you're saying you might like it. If you if you have the courage, you might actually enjoy promoting and creating content? Yes, yeah. Awesome. Got rid of the imposter syndrome and like, knowing like, hey, Joanna, you could do this, like, no one's judging you. Yes, yes. And do you have a lot of friends and family that follow your? I do. That's why they're watching your every move. They mentioned it to you to like, Hey, I saw you posted this thing. Yeah, like, Oh, I really like the music and your voice matching that. I was like. Yes, yes. I mean, sharing from personal experience. And I know, I believe I've shared this with you before, but people in my personal life, like I didn't, I removed them if they like, found it, and then I removed them. And then like, one friend was like, she was like, Yeah, I think Dylan like, blocked me to, like, No, I didn't block her. I just said, now. Like, this was the very beginning. And then I feel mad. I was like, Okay, I'll like that just is gonna make for an awkward, like, dinner if we get it because, but but I like that was the extremes I was going to I didn't block her, I just removed her. Like, because it's so like, I never want to feel like I will, I'm telling someone to, like, I want someone to interact and consume, whatever I make, like, by their own will not feel like they're guilted into doing anything. And sometimes I feel like and I don't know if you feel this way too, but sometimes, just by the simple fact of like posting something. They almost like they're like, if they come across it, they feel like they have to comment or, or like it or do anything, because they want to support which is fine. I'm not saying like, don't don't support or something. But I never want them to feel like they need to and especially in the it's mostly in the beginning stages, it feels like if they're like, oh, this thing doesn't have any likes, you know? And they're just like, oh, just like it, which is, you know, again, not a bad thing, because that's on them. But at the same time, I don't know, I just, it's almost like, especially in the very beginning. It's like you're in an empty room. And then this, like, maybe this person just shows up because they're like, well, like I'm friend or I'm family. And I'm supposed to be here. And it's like, you don't have to just keep showing up just because you feel obligated because you're like my family or something. You know, I don't know if that makes any sense. Oh, no, it does. Like how people are like 10 likes or like 30 likes. That's 30 people in the room? Yes. Like, oh, three of those people are your family. Yeah. Yeah, unless you're here again. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And it's and again, like, I guess, I mean, that's been my thought. But as I was saying that the realization also is like, if they want to support I guess they shouldn't, you know, feel like I shouldn't like, stop them from supporting or something. So I get that on one hand, I guess it just it's a lot different when there's less voices, giving you feedback, giving you interaction, and you're like, I feel like the people that I keep seeing are the people in my family and I'm not making this for my family. Maybe they're not even your target audience, you know, so it's, and that's hard to promote, when you're promoting. It's almost like you're talking to the wrong crowd, because then you know, you're talking to your aunt, your uncle, your cousin, someone that's liking your stuff. But they're not your target person. So you like, but you see, they like it. And you take that as feedback and you're like, Am I making this for my family? Or my I'm making this for this audience that I know exists? That just hasn't seen it yet. Do you feel that way? Ever? I think so. And then it's like, okay, like, who is going to? Like, are they going to like this music? Or it's like, No, I shouldn't be thinking about a family member. Right. Are they different? Yeah. Yeah. So I think that is I never thought about that. But yeah, I feel like the eyes or the pressure, like, what they like, I think that was also hard in the beginning, too. Because all my rough drafts, I went through like friends and family. I'm like, do you like this? And someone would be like, Yeah, like that. And someone would be like, No, I don't like that part. And someone's like, yes, this part and I like change. I kept changing it because like I was trying to fit their needs or like, their voices and maybe I am still Oh, man. Yeah, I will. It's part of like marketing and getting more of an audience right and marketing sounds, I don't know, it sounds different I guess to different people, I sometimes marketing to me sounds very corporate or business, see, but it's, I guess what it is, you know, promotion, marketing, getting more of an audience, it's all related. And it's, you know, it's so important to zero in on that, like, what you want to get more of, you know, because those people are will be. So by bought into what you're like the product, the podcast that you're giving them, and I think it's, you know, sometimes we can, unconsciously be aware, like, not totally be aware that we're maybe like, diluting that with our family or friends or other people, you know, and it's like, I'm trying to reach this person, but I have to talk to this person along the way, if that makes sense, like to. So like, you kind of dilute your message a little bit every time you try to talk to two people, you know, especially if those two people are like, different, you know, this family member or friend is like, not your target audience. But you're like, but I have to because they still like the page. It's kind of like, I guess if I give you this context, because I think it might make sense. But since I talk on Instagram, like I talked so much about podcasting, if I was like, but I know people that also follow my page really like banking, you know, like, they follow it because they like me, not necessarily podcasting, but I know they would like banking. So I'm gonna, like throw in every now and then just like, maybe not talk about podcasting. I'm not going to talk about banking, but I'm just like, not going to talk about podcasting to please them. In hopes like that. They're just okay, like, I have to take care of them, you know? Yeah. And then and then the people that are like looking for the podcasting stuff would be like, what, like, I just like the podcasting stuff, like, be more podcasting stuff, you know, and I'm like, I want to, but I also don't like, I just want to please, I guess, you know, like, I don't wanna make anyone upset. And this person keeps showing up, and I just gotta give them something they want. So like, I'm going to try and help 500 people. And like, what in doing so I also want to make sure that these 20 people, family and friends are okay. And by doing that, almost, like, diluting, like 480 people, because the 480 people are like, I want this more of this moment, you know, or use, it stops you from putting out something. That's what my I think my trouble is, like, they're, like, stories that I can relate to. And I'm like, Oh, someone's gonna hear that. Like, oh, yeah, like, guests on your podcast, or? Oh, no, like, if I'm talking with my guests, and I like mention a personal story. Yes. Yeah. And then it's like, yeah, I did blah, blah, blah. And yeah, so and so and blah, blah. It's like, edit that piece. Yeah. Yeah, I don't want my mom to hear that. I get it, you know, to that, that that part always feels like, tricky anyways, because, you know, it's one of those things like, you know, some people never asked to be in, you know, their stuff. Like, I don't post about, like, people that like, not really ask, I don't know, I just don't want to, like invite anyone into the story, I guess, you know, like, social media is only like a snippet, you know, is podcasting. And it's like, if you invite someone into that story, I don't know if they don't really want to be it's just like, yeah, or some drama, you know, that would just cause more problems. That probably wouldn't help grow the audience long term. Yeah, so so. So getting back to like, what you've been doing, as far as growing the audience. What have you been doing? Oh, so I have also been on the platform. It's more on. It's like a Filipino based app, and they're trying to move to America. So they asked, they're trying to also grow their podcasting. So I hopped on there. It's called Kumu. It's like, a streaming platform. And like, I hate it. Honestly, it's, it's great. It's great to do it. I just hate being in front of the camera and like, talking, yeah, I'm like I did a podcast so people wouldn't see my face. And now I have to be on this camera for one hour and just talking and not being able to edit anything like My nerves are shocked. But I tried that out and it seems like my audience is growing in the Philippines. But I don't want to do pigeonhole myself. So to say, just to like, Filipinos or Filipino Americans or Asian Americans, because one thing I like about my podcast is like it, it's for everybody, like, all ages, all races, all backgrounds and things like that. So I guess, going on a different streaming platform might help. But what do you talk about in the streams? I don't know. It was, because I was too scared. The words just were flowing. Who knows what was said? Hopefully no names were mentioned. Oh, no, I did one. So the first one I did was, um, about bad dates. So like, talk to the audience, like, like, finding out what their bad dates were too. And, and then the rest of the time, I was just like, talking to people in the stream, like, help me. So I don't know, I'm not a good streamer. I don't know how people do this. Yeah, streaming is, I look, okay, I'll make this observation about you, is you just jump into the deep end, which is awesome. And you mentioned, like, if I was more courageous, and I would do this, you're doing the things that people put off their whole lives. And you just hop right in, like, podcasting is not something usually that like I've mentioned, you know, it's not people's usually first media platform, it's something because they're like, I need a way to talk more like, I'm running out of room and 15 seconds on reels. So I need to, you know, tick tock, sign up. And, and so you just hopped in podcasting. And then also with streaming, that is the hardest thing for any creator to just hop into. So the fact that you gone live, even once is such a great accomplishment in itself, because most people will never press the Live button. Like most people, people will do find any excuse or any reason to do anything else than to do that. So like, huge, huge, like, kudos to that. And that is not, I think you are like super courageous. Like, there's no way you're not given, like all the things you've done. I'll just say that. I'm gonna totally find you that you're, you're not courageous. I think you are. But But what is it? Like? Do you think if you had a game plan, as far as like, streaming, okay, like, that is? That's a lot to ask of anybody? But do you think if you had some type of repeatable gameplan strategy for content, like promotional type content, that it would make it much easier for you? Or are you would you still be like? I think so. Like, I'm still working on my, what do they call it? pillars, content, pillars, content columns? I don't even know the name of what you're talking about. Okay. Yeah. And then like how it's like, oh, then do this during this three and then match it or like, it's just like an umbrella of things to cover. So I'm working on that. And like, my show notes to base that off my show notes and move it on to like, Instagram and move on to something else. So I'm working on is just I think, again, I just have to do it like, yeah, yeah. And also, too, I think I'm just maybe hopping around to many different platforms, like, Oh, go on Twitter one day, and then I'm gonna go on Instagram one day, and then I'm gonna go check out tick tock, and believe me, everybody put in put in point or something random? And it's like, I'm not focusing on? Or I'm not correlating all the content together. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. It makes total sense. Makes perfect sense. And I think it's super common and I think, are obviously super common. It's super normal. I don't know how common it really is like, I don't know, you know, but I know that it's what you're experiencing. There's definitely a like, I think oftentimes people will Yeah, they talk on Twitter one way than they do in a Facebook group, or that they post on Instagram, or they don't even know what to post on Instagram. Yes. Okay. Got it. So, do you mind if I make some suggestions? Can I offer suggestions? And that's because my like, goal is to make your life easier. And as it grows, you're not going to like to scale the content is it can only happen if it is like flowing, and it's nice and like it's not requiring a bunch of time. It's not requiring a bunch of energy because life happens. There's a life outside of marketing growing a podcast like growing up podcast should be, you know, you're doing it effectively when it's not requiring a ton of energy. It's just growing naturally by you doing a couple of key pieces. And maybe you've heard the term like Key Performance Indicators KPI, and that's like the the main things to focus on, right? There's a lot of numbers to focus on. And oftentimes in the beginning, especially with a podcast, people will be like, Oh, my KPI, don't make it without realizing it. My like, biggest thing is audience downloads. Or, you know, that's the most common one, like, I'm not getting any downloads. But then oftentimes, we'll also just like switching to publishing a certain number of episodes, and then also promoting a certain number of times per week. And promoting looks honestly just like a content piece of content with a simple call to action. Have you are you in like, relationship talk world, like on your algorithm? Is it showing you like relationship stuff? It does? Yes. And then, like, like relationship coaches, and like, heartbreakers anonymous and all this fun stuff? And I'm like, I think that's where I get my What was that word? Imposter syndrome, or? Yes, thank you. That's where I'm getting my imposter syndrome to I'm like, I see other people posting like, valuable content. And I'm like, oh, man, that looks good. Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah, I, yeah. Okay. couple of suggestions in one. I was simply mentioned earlier, I was talking with a friend, he was like, asking me something about how do I gauge if a piece of content is good or bad. And he was shocked. He was, he was surprised when I told him, I don't look at anything, like nothing. Like, I don't like I know, if I'm not publishing very much. I'm doing a couple of things. Like personally, I know that I'm like, probably consuming too much. And I am, like, worried about the wrong things. Because I it's like a trick, like, the more the more you publish, or the better like you get, the more people would be like, a gate flips. All of a sudden people are like, How the heck are you doing this, which you probably already experienced a little bit to like, well, you have a podcast here. Like, they might think here of like, oh, CBS gonna reach out to you and like, some deal or something, you know, like, which, again, could happen at any stage. But sometimes people in our family that are close to us, like, they think a podcast is almost the equivalent, you know, it means a lot to some people, which that's the goal, you know, you want to make something meaningful, but some people are just like, don't treat it like you're a New York Times author or something you're like, I don't know, I just got my little thing I'm working on. Yeah, someone was like that recently, too. I was like, mentioning my podcast, and they're like, Wow, you must have like, 1000 followers? And I'm like, no, like, I have 30. Yeah, which is amazing. And, and valuable, and all that stuff. But it's just, you know, it's just one of those things. It's like, it can mean a lot. It can mean a little, there's no like judgment of if it's good or bad. It's just people's responses. Sometimes, you know, that the expectations they almost set when they hear you have a podcast is all over the place. Some people are like, hey, and then some people are like, oh, you know, so. So I say all that just because personally, I don't look backwards. I look backwards, very occasionally, like little snapshots of I'll go like, do a bunch. And then I'll like, look from a high level, but I gotta get in and out. Like, if I look too much, at a particular post, like, that's what I've noticed, personally, like, everything starts creeping in, I'm like, oh, boy, this is, you know, and anytime I talk with people with really large platforms, they seem to have a similar thing of, it's just like, not enough data to extract off of a couple posts, especially if you just posted it within like a day or two. But looking like long term, you know, like, for example, if we looked at your podcast a month, after you download or published it, we would have a very set different number very, like different numbers to pull from then like a year later, you know, in the fact that you've been publishing for a full year is the most important metric. Like that's, that's in so important, rather than judging you know, at any step of the stage, judging yourself what you make judging the quality of the episodes, like a quality episode is the one that you published and you've published episodes. So you've got the quote, like, you've nailed it for a year now. And I think the next step is and I think, personally, I think Instagram and these platforms like they, they know it, they know the game like that's what keeps people coming back, like how many likes did this get? How many did this get? How many of this all that stuff. And again, personally, like my thing is, is switching like, I know people are nervous to put their face in something. So I'll put my face in something even though it's uncomfortable. And then I also know that people get so caught up in essentially what you're describing. That's super normal. People get so caught up in the engagement, the analytics, that they're like, Wow, this post didn't do so good. This one didn't do so great either. But because it's such a numbers game, like the only way you can succeed is if you let that idea of whatever the numbers are supposed to be or any comparison. Go. And luckily for us, like, all these platforms are virtually the same these days. YouTube is like, I don't know, if you've messed around with YouTube shorts. No, I have no. It's it's similar to tick tock and that you don't have to have subscribers to post something that could just take off. And then tick tock is honestly what I would suggest over Instagram any time of the day. For example, I was talking with someone last week, that went from zero to a million followers in a month, from when they started tic tock. And just by the simple fact of the algorithm, like it got in the groove of what they're supposed to go. And if you don't already have an audience built, people on tick tock, they don't really go to the following tab. Like they don't look at who they're following, they just click on the for you page. And if they're on the for you page, they will see people they're following that will get mixed in. But the algorithm is more fine tuned over there. So they're going to try and show you more of what you like. So the more that you refine your content on something like Tik Tok, the quicker your audience will grow. And you can post that same content. You know, there's like a lot of people that like, Don't post that on Instagram, it's all gonna be you can just keep it this, like, the goal is to like, move something down the line, not not worry about, you know, getting it perfect. And I think you would be honestly shocked at how simple it will be for you to grow on tick tock like before you know it. I'll also say this, I'm not like, I don't have some huge numbers on tick tock or something. But I was posting, I would just like, trust, I didn't change anything, basically for like six to eight, nine months, maybe? Or I guess, yeah, maybe like 778 months on tick tock. I just was like, some videos would get like two views. And I was like, you might make like, banned or something like I don't think I don't think I'm I don't I don't think it's possible to get two views like that does that what, like, what did I do. And then somebody's got like, 30. And then just recently, nothing really changed much. And then now, like, I'll look back, a video will get 18,000 views or 10,000 views or some, some videos will still get like 300 views or something. And I just don't judge it, you know, I'm just like, it is what it is. And if it's not like, doesn't mean the video is good or bad, it just, I just blame it on the algorithm. And I just go or whatever, you know, next video could do better, but I've seen these relationship videos where it's a moving background. And then there's just text on there. And it's just something nice, like you mentioned at the beginning. Like wanting to let people like want to let people know they're not alone. And if if I think you could do that, in a way that doesn't require you to be like, super animated all the time. And just a little reminder, you know, and that could be simply like in something like do you use Canva? Yes, yeah. Like, like a piece like a water background with you know, texts that just says like, like simple quotes and simple reminders. Like, those go viral. And those like, let's use a case study that I know that I'm pretty sure you're familiar with, you know that I think he's gonna butcher his name like, Casey Kenny, I think yes. Okay. So people that are listening this Casey Kenny IP saying everyone has a like a viral Instagram account. And he'll posts like writing on a coffee cup or something like that around the city. And almost every time he posts it goes like viral. And it's just an inspirational quote, like one or two sentences. Like, not an actual quote of his but like, this is this is not one of his quotes, but like, believe you can and you will or something like that. But it's usually like something like deep and they're great quotes. But that same the reason why they go viral is because people will share those. And they're sharing that because they want to they want someone else to feel what they're feeling when they read it. And it doesn't you know, he's not like studying like psychology over there. Like, I'm gonna calculate the perfect one. Well, I mean, it's calculated for sure, but he has an understanding of what makes people feel something. And so similar idea for yours is like you don't people I guess maybe see case Kenny is like this guru, this probably perfect person. He's this handsome man. That just happens to be, you know, these relationship quotes. But if I, if I were you, I wouldn't take credit for, like the things that you're posting or take, like ownership of them, rather than just how you do on your podcast, like the essence is to let people feel that they're not alone. The same thing for your content that you could batch make in Canva is simply just reminding people that they're not alone through simple quotes, like, using, like, talking about, like, easy themes, like you matter, you're not alone, just straight up saying it, you don't have to, like, meditate for, you know, this long way of like, there's no long route to just let someone remember that they are important. And, and it's not constantly like, I'm going to find the newest angle to tell someone that they're not, you know, they matter. I think you would like, just throw it unbelievably fast. You know what I mean? Like, a moving back, like, of course, you can add in other types of content, but the lowest lift is isn't necessarily you get in front of the camera, it's just you posting something. And if you make it in Canva. I mean, just moving a waterfall with like, in with the words that just say, you know, something? Or, like, yeah, or maybe like a quote, but I would just do whatever takes you the least amount of time. And, and just to publish, and, and in the beginning, I wouldn't even worry about like, doesn't have me and it doesn't have this logo when it doesn't have this. Like that can go down the line once you make improvements, but like having a base, a base piece of content, you know what I mean? Just like when I said, Just do it like, yeah, exactly, exactly. And in the workflow would essentially just be listing out quotes, then going into Canva, and creating like three or four templates, three, maybe three to five templates, and then copy paste from your notes to the Canva, press Save, and then publish. And not like that. There's no long captions. There's no crazy hashtag strategy, because those don't really matter as much anymore. It just simply getting something up. And then not looking at the numbers. But like, just how you did with the podcast of, you know, how, like, how can we just keep it alive in simply just feeding it through the lowest lift possible? I think you'd be like shocked, of course, having your podcast, your podcast link in the bio. So it's the thing that they see. And they go to would be incredible as an audience member, and I'm saying this from a neutral, like selfish reason of like, what I would love to see if I was an auditor, and we're like, oh, thank you for reminding me, like, do you think I should do? Like, so have it linked to my website? Since that's where I host it, and it has links to like, is that good? It's up to you like, yeah, like it is you want it to be as focused as possible. And that looks like usually, if they go to the page, they should just be click here to listen on Spotify, click here to listen on Apple podcast, very direct of the exact like, they shouldn't be like, they shouldn't have to scroll really to dig for something. But if if that's not the case, then totally fine. of them. Just landing on a page is great. I just seen that with people where they're like, Yeah, I click it and it goes to their website and it's like, and then they have to hit podcast and have to scroll down. That's when I'm like if you change my website now it's got all the links. It's like, yeah, then people are smart enough of course. But that's like your lowest lift. Are you already active in Facebook groups relationship Facebook groups now? Yeah. But you're active on your basic your you are active on Instagram, Twitter, and tic toc. And I would just like focus there. And like, I wouldn't even try to include yourself unless you want to, but nothing that you've said has pointed to the direction that you want to be pointing to stuff or you want to be like doing all that stuff. And honestly, you could use this strategy until you great gain more traction, which you will and then once you feel that you have more of an audience, you could trickle in content with your face and if you feel like it I'm or you can never do that. But at that point, you'll have created more of an audience. So it won't feel like it's so focused around you and people that maybe know you in real life. You know what I mean? Yes, I do have a question too. I've been wanting to get into a newsletter. But again, I don't know what like, what to write about. And I don't want those. I think I asked like, should I be consistent on newsletters? I don't want to be like, Hi, everyone. Today's Monday. Have a great Monday. Yeah, love. Ya. So when it comes to newsletters, in your case, what what you want to lead with is, like every touchpoint they have with you should be around letting someone know that they're not alone. That should be like the that should be passed through. It's Moses through your content, it's already being passed through osmosis through your podcast. So that's like the guiding star. So what would be said in an email that lets someone feel that they're not alone, that's most likely going to be just, you know, it's going to be probably like just a heartfelt mouth message or something like that. With newsletters, people have different objectives. You know, people, if the goal is to have people listen to a podcast episode, for example, you could send once a week, you could send an email out to your people. And it could be just a little message followed with a link to listen to your episode. I don't, with emails, you know, you don't want to send them super infrequently. Because people, it just gets lost. Just like social media, we think people everyone sees everything we post, that it's so far from the truth. So little people see the things we post, we just feel like they see everything we posted. They don't and the email is just the same, because so many people get so much junk email. So people will open your emails, if you are reminding them that they're not alone. They're really cool. Thank you for not like, this isn't spam. And thank you for making me feel this way. And thank you for the link. Because I've been so busy. I kind of forgot to click on this, you know, because there's a lot of steps to get to the podcast, you know, so making it again, easy for them. But I would just I would keep it it's it doesn't have to always be you saying something? It was like, it's kind of like if you if you wrote a book about helping people feel like they're not alone. You know, like, what would you say, you know, what, what would be in that book? And that's how I would start to think about it. And you would probably talk the same way you would talk to me, you talked to a friend, it would be fun, it would be light. It wouldn't be like oh my gosh, she's putting this on me right now. Like, oh, this is a heavy you know, it will just be light and, and friendly. And that's exactly how the email should be to, like light and friendly. Like a letter from a friend. Like that. letter to my friend. Yeah, go to my ex. Yeah. Well, I mean, that could be the name of your newsletter, too, you know, like letter letter from a friend. You know, and it's just fun because you had such a play on words. With that, and Oh, yeah. So I would, I would have fun with it. I would also emails are great, because it's a great time to get like a response. You know, people reply to emails, they are more personal than social media, asking someone to like comment is a lot for someone, it's almost like a podcast where they know that if they share it in the comments, it's sharing it with the world. So email is great for that. You could, I wouldn't try to overdo the email, you know, just keep it nice and simple. But like, and that's, I guess the theme, you know, with with our chat today is just keep everything very simple. Keep it repeatable, like, what, what's like, the less the least amount of friction to hitting Publish. And that looks like Canva with just, you know, some there's a bunch of suggestions out there, just keep it super focused. And then the email, super, you know, keep it simple. If you feel like writing more cool. You don't have to, it's not you're not by doing just a little bit. You're not giving people like no value, you're still giving a lot of value. Even if it doesn't always feel like you're like I gotta you gotta give them more I gotta give me more it's like, sometimes I gotta say is you matter? Like, that's, that's in that is all people really need to hear. cuz you can't, you're you're not responsible for if people feel not alone, you know, that's not on you. That's like, you can do it. Like, you know, there's the boundaries, you know, like, that's on them, whether they're gonna like, your content, you can't, you can't like, I have a client that I've done their social media for years, and I repurpose like a ton of their content. And most of the time, when I've repurpose content, they're like, this is exactly what I needed to hear today, or something like that. And it in this particular case, it wasn't, you know, this is like, emotional type content. It wasn't because like, it was like, I made it for that one specific person. I mean, I made it for a specific person, but not not that actual individual. They heard it, you know, so people will self identify with what you're saying. And it's not up to you to, like, go in there and be like, you know, was I made this exactly, you know, because we consume, we're like, we think it's exactly for us, and it is, but it's not like your responsibility to make sure that it's like, you know, whether they got it or not, people, you know, they could be scrolling while they're eating. Like, you know, like they there's so many variables that we just don't have control over. When it comes to content in general, that I wouldn't worry about, like taking any responsibility for like, making sure it lands with the person and judging whether or not like judging yourself, if that actually landed, because it will land with the right person. And you might not always know it. Like, they might not even engage with your content. And then they'll be like, I've been watching you for a while, like, well, like, what are you? Why did you say anything? You know, like, I heard that you were like, Oh, I've never even heard from you. I never noticed your screen. And now you're like, crap. So you never know who's watching. You never know who's actually, you know, enjoying it. But the more you can just keep staying on that like guiding star that guiding mission you're going to be the the party will come to letter to my ex if that makes sense. Yeah. I like that. Awesome. Awesome. It was like really helpful. I'm like, Oh, what am I gonna do tonight? Like? Can I just keep it really simple. Thank you so much, Joanna for joining me today. And if you haven't already, make sure to check out her podcast later to my ex. I hope you were able to have a few takeaways from our conversation that can help you. Make sure to check out the episode description for a link to Joanna's podcast letter to my ex. And next week on the podcast. I've got another podcast coaching conversation. My conversation next week is with Sam Stanford, who hosts the everything steam podcast. Steam stands for science, technology, engineering, art and mathematics. And Sam was actually having a similar problem as Joanna had on today's episode, all about not really growing in listeners and not getting engagement. But the best solution I found for Sam through talking with him wasn't the same that I recommended for Joanna. In my episode next week, you'll learn what strategies I recommended to Sam on how to build an even closer relationship with his listeners, and how to do that through email. Until then, I'm Dylan Schmidt and you've been listening to Digital Podcaster