The art of keeping listeners coming back . This has been on my mind so much . Now I don't really talk about my own personal psychology , but I will for a second my podcast psychology , my psychology around podcasts . So , like I'm constantly thinking about what makes podcasts interesting , how hosts can improve their skills , how you can get better at marketing , how you can get better at being more efficient , whether it comes to setting yourself up for success in the long run of having a podcast , and whatever that success means to you , whether it's monetary , whether it's as a outlet of creative expression , whatever it is , whether it's as a outlet of creative expression , whatever it is I want you to be successful with your podcast . And one of the things that I keep coming back to time and time again in my own head of what would make a podcast successful is not just more downloads for a podcast . That's kind of a vanity metric , really . Podcast downloads are going to go up and down right , that's a podcast . That's kind of a vanity metric , really . Podcast downloads are going to go up and down right , that's a given . We know that to be true If you have a guest on who is really popular and already has a following , or maybe a guest you had previously . They get a following , whatever that episode might spike up . That's awesome . You're going to get podcast downloads . You're going to maybe grow your podcast , but maybe not .
Speaker 1And why would you not grow your podcast ? Because people don't come back to keep listening . They tune in for one episode and then they have no reason to come back . So the analogy I keep coming to in my brain is it's very similar to money . And the analogy I keep coming to in my brain is it's very similar to money . It's not about how much you make , it's about how much you keep . If it costs you $10,000 to make $12,000 , then you made what $2,000 ? Is that good ? I don't know . If it costs you , you know , 40 hours to get 10 podcast downloads , you know , is that worth it ? Probably not , because if you get 10 podcast downloads , how many of those come back and listen again and again ?
Speaker 1So what I want to talk about in this episode are ways that you can get people to not just download your podcast episodes once . We want that , but we want to go deeper , and so the podcast download conversation really just kind of like there's so much we could talk about there and I have so much I have talked about there . But I want to talk about how to make your podcast episodes stickier so that if someone is listening for the first time , they come back . And I've shared before about how there is this like stat this restaurant . Stat John Taffer , I think his name is that's where I got the idea from . He was on Gary V's podcast , the Gary V audio experience , and he was talking about how , like 75% of people that come to a restaurant for the first time , you know they don't come back a second time , like only uh , you know a set number of people coming back , and then the second time they go back to the restaurant , only a set number of people come back for a third time . But when they come back a third time , they're more likely to come back time and time again . So you don't market to the first time someone goes to a restaurant , you don't market to the second time , you market to three , because then you're going to have a person that's a repeat patron of the establishment . And I have found the same thing to be true time and time again for podcasts it doesn't really matter if how many downloads you get , it's how many you keep coming back , right , if you're a seasonal podcast and you just do like one season , maybe it's a little different , but if you're like most podcasts that are ongoing and you want to continue growing , you need to keep people coming back . So
let's talk about them .
Speaker 1There's a few different ways you can keep people coming back . Number one you can create a unified podcast experience . So you have your episodes . We're zooming in on those , but let's zoom out . So I've spoken about this idea before .
Speaker 1But when you're making a podcast , you're and I'm not referring to just an episode , I'm referring to your whole podcast You're making a library of sorts and let's just like visualize that as like a building that has shelves and every shelf is an episode . Inside the episodes you might refer to another shelf , another episode , and when you do that , you start to do that more and more . You use callbacks to previous content , you tease future episodes , you start to build more of a cohesive narrative that people , when they're listening , will go oh yeah , that's right . Like I need to go listen to that . I know for myself , I've heard that and I'll go back . You know , you think like will anyone do it ? Just like anything else , people will do it If they will go back and listen if you mention it . They won't go back If you don't mention it . It's hard to quantify the ROI on this , but as you do it more and more , you'll start to see more stickiness happen throughout your episodes .
Speaker 1So , as a listener , one of the podcasts I like which I haven't listened to lately is is Effectively Wild . It's a baseball analytics podcast , but they would do it all the time . On episode 289 , we talked about how Mike Trout you know we analyzed , like , could Mike Trout beat , you know , a team of Mike Trouts beat a team of , like the current what is it ? Miami Marlins , which is interesting , right ? And so I'm like oh , let me go back to episode 289 and listen to that episode because I want to hear them talk about that .
Speaker 1Now , the same thing is true for your audience and what you're talking about on your episodes . There's likely something that you could call back to in a previous episode in a natural way . That fits Very similar if you're familiar with , like SEO and linking blogs together , where you know you start like oh , I can include this same idea . This is also why it's really important to have a organized structure for your podcast , whether you're using Notion or whatever . So , as you're starting to outline the episode that you're working on , you can proactively think ahead of where might I be able to call out to and mention this episode , because that's going to be the key to making your podcast stickier . But what this does to psychology wise , right , you're starting to foster a sense of continuity in your listeners .
Speaker 1If you're so focused on , like , just that one moment , it's almost like going on a date with somebody . Maybe it's your first date with somebody , but then , like , you never talk about the second date , you're just so focused on that one . You're like , I mean , you probably won't be a second . You know like , and that's how some people , a lot of people , are doing their podcasts at first , or they don't even consider it . They're like , yeah , I'm just so focused on this one episode . So , whether it is like a little banter , you add in just like personality cues , that's also like cues . You start making them bingeable , right , and let's talk about more of that .
Speaker 1So ways that you can make your podcast episodes more bingeable starts at the title level , which is the first place people see . Right , they'll see your episode artwork , your show name , things like that , but when they see your titles , it needs to be able to clearly effectively communicate what's in the episodes for two reasons . One for you as a host , so you're like what was in this episode and it's easy for you when you're like planning your current episodes , to look back and go oh yeah , I want to include a callback to this episode . It's harder if your titles are not doing that job right . And then for your listeners well , when they are going back on old episodes , because podcast episodes we naturally listen to them different than other types of media or social media content way different . Obviously , youtube videos are probably the closest thing , right , if you're going to go like , scroll back . But with podcasts , I think , because it doesn't show like the upload date typically , sometimes it does actually Feels like people are more forgiving of like and will willingly listen to an older episode sometimes than they might for a YouTube video . But as I say that I realize like people will also revisit older YouTube videos . They pop up on my feed all the time . If it's relevant , I'm going to dive in , right , and so continuing conversations off podcast this is also how you're going to start to say streamline , but thread the needle through the continuity of your episodes .
Speaker 1Making it more bingeable is just reminding people you know , reminding listeners about new episodes , building a community around your content . It's more than just a podcast . You choose one or two platforms to like , really show up on and you start just showcasing your personality . And by showcasing your personality I mean being yourself , your authentic self online . Naturally , people will be like , interested in you , know a part of yourself . Naturally that starts to help build the community , because people will see themselves and you know what you're sharing and they can start to relate with you .
Another way you can start making your content for your podcast more bingeable is through like multi-episode arcs . If you encourage listeners to explore past episodes , you could make it easier for them by making playlists . I like to call them like tracks . You have like listening tracks . So if you had all around like a certain topic , just make a Spotify playlist , add those tracks in and then it gives the playlist like you can make it public , and then it gives the playlist like you can make it public and then you can share that with your listeners . It will take you less than five minutes and is a powerful way to start making your content more bingeable . And then what else we got here ? So , yeah , really , as you start to do more of these things is when you'll start to see the effect .
Speaker 1It's not like something that happens overnight . It's something that you have to get better at as a host , and this is a challenge to you . If you haven't been doing this stuff , or if you feel like , yeah , I've been doing it , but I could be doing it better , like this is the things that you should be focusing on , because these will the things that , like will again keep you more listeners sticking around , rather than one episode , so that when you're like , when you're ready , you don't have to get ready , right , you stay ready . So when you have a host on sorry , a guest on that has an audience , and you know you're doing the things that you're already normally doing , maybe then you add in this to it . It starts compounding , right , and then over time , you have people that are like I'm addicted to your podcast , I can't stop listening .
Speaker 1I went back and I started from the beginning or whatever , right , and I had people say that about this podcast very early on , and then also like around 100 something episodes in and I was like , really Like , that's a lot of episodes to listen to . I almost felt like that's a lot , but there's been a few people that have been determined to like make it through all of them . So I know I'm that way too , like a completist . Right , I want to listen to maybe the beginning of something , but not everyone is like that way . And if you have a lot of episodes , you can make it much easier for someone if you just give them the right direction calling out specific episodes , making tracks or playlists where you can guide them to , and then talking off your podcast , just sharing yourself and then also just reminding them hey , a new episode is here Because people go in seasons too .
Speaker 1Right , we fit podcasts into our lives . So you know , if someone is used to commuting , they might listen to a certain podcast and then maybe for a couple weeks they aren't commuting , so they don't listen to that podcast , you , you know . So you're going to see fluctuation , but this is how you get more of what you you keep more of what you get . Simple as that . Hope that helps .