{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"startTime":8.08,"endTime":11.759,"body":"Eric, welcome. First off, do you mind explaining just a little bit about who"},{"startTime":11.759,"endTime":15.195,"body":"you are and what it is that you do? My name is Eric Silver. I'm"},{"startTime":15.195,"endTime":17.135,"body":"head of development at Multitude."},{"startTime":19.595,"endTime":22.475,"body":"I I feel this spiel so many times, like, I just got in my head"},{"startTime":22.475,"endTime":26.154,"body":"a little bit because it's like I do a lot of things. I'm head of"},{"startTime":26.154,"endTime":29.295,"body":"development at Multitude, and Multitude is a podcast collective"},{"startTime":29.73,"endTime":33.25,"body":"production studio and ad sales provider. I am also the"},{"startTime":33.25,"endTime":36.69,"body":"host of Join the Party, an actual play Dungeons and"},{"startTime":36.69,"endTime":40.37,"body":"Dragons show that's been going on since 2017. I've been the"},{"startTime":40.37,"endTime":43.65,"body":"dungeon master for that the entire time, and I'm also the host of Attach Your"},{"startTime":43.65,"endTime":47.225,"body":"Resume, which is an interview show about online creative"},{"startTime":47.225,"endTime":51.004,"body":"jobs. Can you tell me more about just the first two words, podcast collective?"},{"startTime":51.065,"endTime":54.905,"body":"Because people, I think, would hear the word podcast network, and they're like,"},{"startTime":54.905,"endTime":57.864,"body":"I kinda know what that is even though people don't fully know what that is."},{"startTime":57.864,"endTime":61.62,"body":"But podcast collective is different. What is a Podcast Collective?"},{"startTime":61.84,"endTime":65.68,"body":"So it functions similarly to a podcast network, but I think you're"},{"startTime":65.68,"endTime":69.36,"body":"identifying something which is very true in podcasting where people just kind"},{"startTime":69.36,"endTime":73.125,"body":"of took terms from other mediums where that they"},{"startTime":73.125,"endTime":76.885,"body":"wanted to emulate and was like, oh, we're a podcast network. Like a"},{"startTime":76.885,"endTime":80.725,"body":"like a TV network has so little to do with a podcast network, but, of"},{"startTime":80.725,"endTime":84.245,"body":"course, that's where they brought it from. And a podcast network just, like, sells"},{"startTime":84.245,"endTime":87.87,"body":"ads for you and gets to keep you on their affiliate"},{"startTime":87.87,"endTime":91.55,"body":"name. A podcast collective does similar things, but when we started"},{"startTime":91.55,"endTime":95.07,"body":"it in earnest in 2018, it was just like a group of"},{"startTime":95.07,"endTime":98.61,"body":"podcasts that wanted to be under the same shingle. And our CEO"},{"startTime":98.83,"endTime":102.604,"body":"wanted to sell ads for us, But it was never about top down power."},{"startTime":102.604,"endTime":106.284,"body":"It was never about, like, owning IP. We didn't realize that would become"},{"startTime":106.284,"endTime":110.125,"body":"such a conversation point coming up in the future, how, like,"},{"startTime":110.125,"endTime":113.86,"body":"every network and every new company wanted to own your IP. But we we had"},{"startTime":113.86,"endTime":117.62,"body":"been inspired by, you know, artist collectives, but also there were other podcast collectives like"},{"startTime":117.62,"endTime":120.98,"body":"The Herd in DC was a big point there. So we're like, oh, we're not"},{"startTime":120.98,"endTime":124.34,"body":"a network because we're all kind of like starting it together. We're a"},{"startTime":124.34,"endTime":127.86,"body":"podcast collective, but it functionally does similar stuff just"},{"startTime":127.86,"endTime":131.625,"body":"with maybe more clear eyed vision of what we wanted out of"},{"startTime":131.625,"endTime":135.305,"body":"our relationship and where we thought podcasting would go. And is it typically for"},{"startTime":135.305,"endTime":138.845,"body":"podcasts that have already started? It started out with people who"},{"startTime":139.225,"endTime":143.02,"body":"had their own podcast. Join the party began in 2016,"},{"startTime":143.4,"endTime":147.08,"body":"and our first show, Spirits, which is our mythology podcast, started in"},{"startTime":147.08,"endTime":150.92,"body":"2015. And, well, I was in a bunch of the"},{"startTime":151.08,"endTime":153.72,"body":"our friends who we knew on the Internet were like, oh, hey. We have some"},{"startTime":153.72,"endTime":157.325,"body":"podcasts together. Let's tour together. Let's go to conventions together."},{"startTime":157.325,"endTime":160.444,"body":"We're we're shouting each other out on shows so much. We should probably have a"},{"startTime":160.444,"endTime":163.805,"body":"name that all unifies that. There's also a thing that, you know, a lot of"},{"startTime":163.805,"endTime":167.345,"body":"us wanted to get into audio and podcasting full time,"},{"startTime":167.61,"endTime":171.45,"body":"and it's funny how much more people take you seriously when you sound"},{"startTime":171.45,"endTime":174.81,"body":"like a business and not just a group of people. So we"},{"startTime":174.81,"endTime":178.349,"body":"made multitude, and then we made a, a multitude"},{"startTime":178.489,"endTime":181.87,"body":"email, and we immediately got inquiries for us to consult"},{"startTime":182.165,"endTime":185.925,"body":"for them. That's actually how a bunch of us who wanted to work in"},{"startTime":185.925,"endTime":189.605,"body":"podcasting full time, like, we finally got momentum going to"},{"startTime":189.605,"endTime":193.445,"body":"actually do it. We we consulted on a podcast that came out from a public"},{"startTime":193.445,"endTime":196.825,"body":"radio station in Chicago. It was a classical music station,"},{"startTime":197.33,"endTime":201.03,"body":"and they had a a podcast about Studs Terkel, like the"},{"startTime":201.409,"endTime":205.25,"body":"the the landmark foundational journalist. And they were like, hey. Can you do our"},{"startTime":205.25,"endTime":209.09,"body":"marketing for us? And we're like, sure. I I we definitely can while I'm,"},{"startTime":209.09,"endTime":212.565,"body":"like, doing my full time job at the same time. And that's that's kind of"},{"startTime":212.565,"endTime":215.285,"body":"how it all started. We did it just to do it, and I think that's"},{"startTime":215.285,"endTime":218.965,"body":"a good enough reason to do most things, especially in a nascent medium like"},{"startTime":218.965,"endTime":222.805,"body":"podcasting. Amen to that. Yeah. And I resonated with something on the first"},{"startTime":222.805,"endTime":226.629,"body":"episode of attach your resume. You said about getting"},{"startTime":226.629,"endTime":230.409,"body":"into podcasting and how basically, like, not getting anybody"},{"startTime":230.47,"endTime":233.989,"body":"to kind of return your calls essentially. And it was just kinda like a lot"},{"startTime":233.989,"endTime":236.95,"body":"of closed doors, and you're like, we'll make our own door and walk through that"},{"startTime":236.95,"endTime":240.585,"body":"one. Did I interpret that correctly? Yeah. You absolutely nailed"},{"startTime":240.585,"endTime":244.045,"body":"it. You know, podcasting is so funny because it's almost like the next evolution"},{"startTime":244.345,"endTime":248.105,"body":"of such an institution of public radio and radio as it is."},{"startTime":248.105,"endTime":251.785,"body":"I deeply remember in 2014 getting into podcasting like"},{"startTime":251.785,"endTime":255.52,"body":"so many other people with Serial and with Start Up, the 1st"},{"startTime":255.52,"endTime":259.04,"body":"show from Gimlet. And I was like, oh, I love this. I love this mode"},{"startTime":259.04,"endTime":262.88,"body":"of storytelling. I want to get into it. And I had no ability"},{"startTime":262.88,"endTime":266.32,"body":"to do so because no one would teach you. There were like 2 programs that"},{"startTime":266.32,"endTime":269.895,"body":"were both in the New England woods, and they accepted like 10"},{"startTime":269.895,"endTime":273.735,"body":"people. I didn't learn how to edit audio for 2 and a"},{"startTime":273.735,"endTime":277.335,"body":"half years after I first wanted to get into it"},{"startTime":277.335,"endTime":281.095,"body":"because it was impossible. And I especially with NPR and like the public"},{"startTime":281.095,"endTime":284.73,"body":"radio suite there, like, you need to be a college student"},{"startTime":285.11,"endTime":288.95,"body":"to get into their intern programs. So and I had"},{"startTime":288.95,"endTime":292.31,"body":"found it when I was 23. So the door was literally already closed in my"},{"startTime":292.31,"endTime":295.45,"body":"face at 23. I was too old"},{"startTime":296.085,"endTime":299.764,"body":"at 23 years old. It it's funny"},{"startTime":299.764,"endTime":303.604,"body":"how, you know, building your own door is always possible on"},{"startTime":303.604,"endTime":307.205,"body":"the Internet. It felt like something that there were so few"},{"startTime":307.205,"endTime":310.85,"body":"doors and they were all closed that it was, like, both very"},{"startTime":311.15,"endTime":314.99,"body":"demoralizing, but also it was like, well, I guess it's fine. I mean,"},{"startTime":314.99,"endTime":318.21,"body":"there's nothing that we've learned more in podcasting here in 2024"},{"startTime":318.99,"endTime":322.59,"body":"that, you know, there are no masters to bow to. You can do whatever you"},{"startTime":322.59,"endTime":326.354,"body":"want because of how decentralized podcasting is. And I think we're seeing that"},{"startTime":326.354,"endTime":330.134,"body":"with how Spotify is really trying to convince everyone to go to video."},{"startTime":330.514,"endTime":334.294,"body":"But it's a it's a move for Spotify, the company, not for podcasting"},{"startTime":334.354,"endTime":337.955,"body":"the medium to seed such like someone so many"},{"startTime":337.955,"endTime":341.73,"body":"creative decisions to the medium to, like, YouTube and"},{"startTime":341.73,"endTime":345.49,"body":"and video, which is so different to why we're all doing this. And from"},{"startTime":345.49,"endTime":348.79,"body":"what you're seeing today, watching the podcast evolution"},{"startTime":349.01,"endTime":352.69,"body":"continue to unfold this year alone, this, like, push"},{"startTime":352.69,"endTime":356.254,"body":"towards video from YouTube, from Spotify. I wasn't at the last"},{"startTime":356.254,"endTime":359.634,"body":"podcast movement, but people talking about the big takeaway was video"},{"startTime":359.694,"endTime":363.534,"body":"and just saying video, video, video. There was one word for podcasts. I feel"},{"startTime":363.534,"endTime":367.235,"body":"like in 2024 is just video, you know, which"},{"startTime":367.55,"endTime":370.99,"body":"that's been there for a while, but there's just so much more of a push"},{"startTime":370.99,"endTime":373.81,"body":"for that now, when you are"},{"startTime":374.43,"endTime":378.27,"body":"either conceptualizing shows, or just like looking"},{"startTime":378.27,"endTime":381.71,"body":"at current shows, what are you noticing in terms of"},{"startTime":381.71,"endTime":384.044,"body":"incorporating video? Because obviously,"},{"startTime":385.145,"endTime":388.905,"body":"podcasting, like you said, decentralized. And there's this thought of, like, do I"},{"startTime":388.905,"endTime":392.585,"body":"go audio? Can I go audio anymore? Or does it have to"},{"startTime":392.585,"endTime":396.36,"body":"be video? Decentralized can almost feel like a"},{"startTime":396.36,"endTime":399.9,"body":"thing that's in the way now instead of something that is more freeing because"},{"startTime":400.12,"endTime":403.96,"body":"the fact of it's being everywhere and it could be everywhere. You're like, do I"},{"startTime":403.96,"endTime":407.66,"body":"go in 80 different directions? Which direction do I go in? That was"},{"startTime":407.72,"endTime":411.345,"body":"a strange question to ask you. But if you understood a question from that"},{"startTime":412.385,"endTime":415.125,"body":"I do understand. I got I understand what you're saying."},{"startTime":415.985,"endTime":419.745,"body":"So, man, there's so many things that are in my head right now."},{"startTime":419.745,"endTime":423.425,"body":"I think some things that we're not seeing the full picture of when we"},{"startTime":423.425,"endTime":426.93,"body":"decide what whether we wanna be audio or a"},{"startTime":426.93,"endTime":430.77,"body":"video show is like, do I have the skills to do it? Right"},{"startTime":430.77,"endTime":434.53,"body":"now, I'm already disappointed in myself. We had spent a lot of time with"},{"startTime":434.53,"endTime":438.37,"body":"the nice camera that I own, and it's very difficult for me to use"},{"startTime":438.37,"endTime":442.125,"body":"because I'm not very good at video. I am an audio person and this is,"},{"startTime":442.125,"endTime":445.185,"body":"like, a lower level of this. And, like, there's just more technological"},{"startTime":445.485,"endTime":449.324,"body":"knowledge. The most popular job, I think, out there right now"},{"startTime":449.324,"endTime":453.164,"body":"that is booming is someone who can cut social"},{"startTime":453.164,"endTime":456.77,"body":"clips for Instagram and TikTok. I know a guy. And and that"},{"startTime":457.01,"endTime":460.77,"body":"and they have, like, the skills that everybody wants, like, with"},{"startTime":460.77,"endTime":464.61,"body":"the good captions and high quality and cap and turning it out"},{"startTime":464.61,"endTime":467.97,"body":"quickly and efficiently and doing a lot of stuff that it's like I can"},{"startTime":467.97,"endTime":470.95,"body":"conceptualize, but it's very difficult for me to execute"},{"startTime":472.105,"endTime":475.545,"body":"in video editing software because it's something totally different. I think this also"},{"startTime":475.545,"endTime":479.225,"body":"reflects just the movement of social media, the collapse of"},{"startTime":479.225,"endTime":482.905,"body":"Twitter, and how, like, Instagram and TikTok kind of"},{"startTime":482.905,"endTime":486.72,"body":"owns everything. It's also kind of a base level understanding of"},{"startTime":486.72,"endTime":490.56,"body":"why those things are good because, like, you know, no one leaves"},{"startTime":490.56,"endTime":494.319,"body":"TikTok. I see all the time on websites with popular"},{"startTime":494.319,"endTime":498.085,"body":"shows where they're like, Oh, we had a popular TikTok clips, and that's why"},{"startTime":498.085,"endTime":501.925,"body":"we're good at what we do. And like, it's such a lottery. This is"},{"startTime":501.925,"endTime":505.525,"body":"this is something that I have heard Taylor Lawrence, the very, very talented and"},{"startTime":505.525,"endTime":509.169,"body":"popular technology and Internet reporter say. But, you know,"},{"startTime":509.169,"endTime":513.01,"body":"we're in such an a lottery economy now where it's like you"},{"startTime":513.01,"endTime":516.549,"body":"just get randomly get picked, and that's what happens and that's why you're successful."},{"startTime":516.77,"endTime":520.37,"body":"And I think video leans into the lottery economy because of how it's"},{"startTime":520.37,"endTime":523.99,"body":"related to, you know, getting on the algorithm. But if we remember,"},{"startTime":524.465,"endTime":527.745,"body":"all of us who've been around on the Internet for a while, we've already won"},{"startTime":527.745,"endTime":531.125,"body":"been in one pivot to video, which crashed the entire"},{"startTime":531.505,"endTime":534.865,"body":"creator economy there in the mid 20 tens. You know, there's a"},{"startTime":534.865,"endTime":538.465,"body":"Wikipedia page for the pivot to video. No, it's really"},{"startTime":538.465,"endTime":542.21,"body":"funny. It's a really funny read. It's also like if we remember why Patreon"},{"startTime":542.27,"endTime":545.87,"body":"started, Jack Conte was making videos to"},{"startTime":545.95,"endTime":549.17,"body":"like, okay, go style music videos"},{"startTime":549.87,"endTime":553.714,"body":"on YouTube, and he got, like, $10"},{"startTime":553.714,"endTime":557.394,"body":"from Google AdSense from an incredibly popular video that took him"},{"startTime":557.394,"endTime":560.595,"body":"like months to make of 1,000 of dollars. And he's like, there has to be"},{"startTime":560.595,"endTime":564.355,"body":"another way. And then he invented Patreon. And like the fact that"},{"startTime":564.355,"endTime":568.02,"body":"we are seeding the like the ground of"},{"startTime":568.26,"endTime":572.02,"body":"audio to other people kind of means that we're not"},{"startTime":572.02,"endTime":575.72,"body":"remembering what happened in near Internet history,"},{"startTime":576.18,"endTime":579.8,"body":"and we're setting ourselves up just to, I guess, kind of enrich"},{"startTime":580.274,"endTime":583.634,"body":"Google and Spotify more instead of, like, letting ourselves be"},{"startTime":583.634,"endTime":587.475,"body":"free. Now the problem is that you've identified both the strength and the"},{"startTime":587.475,"endTime":591.315,"body":"weakness of of podcast, which is the RSS, and it involves a"},{"startTime":591.315,"endTime":595.029,"body":"lot of marketing. I do like video. We cut social clips."},{"startTime":595.029,"endTime":598.87,"body":"That's why we pay our video editor so well because they're very good at"},{"startTime":598.87,"endTime":602.63,"body":"it. But I think that's more about like playing the algorithm as much"},{"startTime":602.63,"endTime":606.389,"body":"as you can, but not seeding everything that is a"},{"startTime":606.389,"endTime":610.095,"body":"podcast to the algorithm, which I think that, you know,"},{"startTime":610.095,"endTime":613.475,"body":"when you get on YouTube and it becomes a video, you can't edit."},{"startTime":614.015,"endTime":617.695,"body":"And I think that audio editing is one of podcast's biggest"},{"startTime":617.695,"endTime":621.455,"body":"powers to make this turn like 90 minutes of tape"},{"startTime":621.455,"endTime":625.17,"body":"into a concise smarts, maybe fill"},{"startTime":625.17,"endTime":629.01,"body":"in parts where you wish you would ask questions better or you you correct wanna"},{"startTime":629.01,"endTime":632.61,"body":"correct something and turn it into, like, a 55 minute"},{"startTime":632.61,"endTime":636.37,"body":"killer audio episode. And I think that we're seeding a lot of"},{"startTime":636.37,"endTime":640.145,"body":"power by doing video only. That's why a lot of our shows, including"},{"startTime":640.145,"endTime":643.745,"body":"attach your resume, which we which is our newest show that we built around this"},{"startTime":643.745,"endTime":647.285,"body":"idea because we've been launching it and developing it in 2024,"},{"startTime":647.745,"endTime":651.48,"body":"where it's like we wanna set this up to be good for clips. We've invited"},{"startTime":651.48,"endTime":655.1,"body":"as many people as possible into our studio, which we've set up a very nice"},{"startTime":655.32,"endTime":659.16,"body":"video set for, but, you know, we're still going to"},{"startTime":659.16,"endTime":662.52,"body":"edit. We're and we're gonna cap cut clips if we get, like, hot"},{"startTime":662.52,"endTime":666.225,"body":"fire 90 seconds and also use, like, the language of video"},{"startTime":666.225,"endTime":669.985,"body":"editing where we can have, like, jerky cuts. You know? But the actual"},{"startTime":669.985,"endTime":673.665,"body":"product, the episodes are audio only so that we can"},{"startTime":673.665,"endTime":677.265,"body":"use all the tools in our tool belt as, you know, audio"},{"startTime":677.265,"endTime":681.04,"body":"goes. Switching gears for a second, but I feel like it's a bit of a"},{"startTime":681.04,"endTime":684.8,"body":"unicorn when I meet somebody that works in podcasting and"},{"startTime":684.8,"endTime":688.26,"body":"also a podcast host. How do you suggest someone approach"},{"startTime":688.64,"endTime":692.435,"body":"the idea of narrowing in on a"},{"startTime":692.435,"endTime":696.275,"body":"specific topic? Oh, that's a good question. You know, it's"},{"startTime":696.275,"endTime":699.635,"body":"funny. The new thing I've been saying is that I'm a part time"},{"startTime":699.635,"endTime":703.075,"body":"podcaster, and I do full time the company I've built"},{"startTime":703.075,"endTime":706.87,"body":"around the podcast. Because I think that there's a real"},{"startTime":706.87,"endTime":710.65,"body":"striation between podcast host talent"},{"startTime":710.71,"endTime":714.55,"body":"if I'm being obnoxious about it. But that is how a lot of people, see"},{"startTime":714.55,"endTime":717.59,"body":"themselves, especially with the amount of celebrity podcasts that are out there. It's like the"},{"startTime":717.59,"endTime":720.755,"body":"celebrity comes in, a lot of other people around them do all the work and"},{"startTime":720.755,"endTime":724.435,"body":"then the celebrity leaves. So it's like there's a real divide between"},{"startTime":724.435,"endTime":727.815,"body":"talent person on the microphone and someone who works in podcasting,"},{"startTime":728.195,"endTime":731.815,"body":"whether in a technical sense, whether you're like a, an engineer"},{"startTime":732.09,"endTime":735.69,"body":"or you sell ads or you do the creative and development like I do."},{"startTime":735.69,"endTime":739.37,"body":"Like, it's it's a business. And I really hope that more and more"},{"startTime":739.37,"endTime":743.21,"body":"people see it as like a creative business and something you can be"},{"startTime":743.21,"endTime":746.985,"body":"a part of. And you can work there without being talent, but"},{"startTime":746.985,"endTime":750.824,"body":"also now not being, like, allergic to being talent that"},{"startTime":750.824,"endTime":754.584,"body":"you're so comfortable with the with the medium and always that you do it. I"},{"startTime":754.584,"endTime":758.25,"body":"imagine every sound engineer probably plays guitar or"},{"startTime":758.33,"endTime":762.01,"body":"keyboard in their own time. I know before I even recorded my first podcast"},{"startTime":762.01,"endTime":765.77,"body":"episode, people would assume that"},{"startTime":765.77,"endTime":769.47,"body":"I actually already had a podcast just because I worked in podcasting"},{"startTime":769.85,"endTime":773.45,"body":"and would, like, edit podcasts. So they're like, you must be a podcast host. And"},{"startTime":773.45,"endTime":777.215,"body":"I'm like, I have never even been on a podcast before. Like"},{"startTime":777.375,"endTime":781.215,"body":"but there's that, halo effect, I guess, they call it. I like that though"},{"startTime":781.215,"endTime":784.975,"body":"because I guess, you know, you see it as a skill. You see being on"},{"startTime":784.975,"endTime":788.55,"body":"the microphone as a skill instead of just like a"},{"startTime":788.55,"endTime":791.59,"body":"given that it's like, oh, talk into the mic, talk on the mic. There you"},{"startTime":791.59,"endTime":795.43,"body":"go. So I think you're you're already elevating into a higher Oh, yeah. A"},{"startTime":795.43,"endTime":798.97,"body":"100%. Like, it's so not just, like, turn it on and go"},{"startTime":799.35,"endTime":803.005,"body":"a 100%. There's no law. Maybe there should be, you know, but"},{"startTime":803.005,"endTime":806.545,"body":"like, there's no law that you can't do that. But"},{"startTime":806.685,"endTime":810.445,"body":"should you do that? Should you not analyze, you know, what"},{"startTime":810.445,"endTime":814.125,"body":"you're doing, make it better and more interesting for the people that you're making for?"},{"startTime":814.125,"endTime":817.91,"body":"I think so. And 9 times out of 10, if we use the celebrity example,"},{"startTime":817.91,"endTime":821.37,"body":"they've been doing it for years, and they have experienced that carried over or something."},{"startTime":821.43,"endTime":825.11,"body":"But for, like, the rest of us that don't have that experience and"},{"startTime":825.11,"endTime":828.885,"body":"wanna get better at it. So going back to the to the idea"},{"startTime":828.885,"endTime":832.725,"body":"here because Yes. I will I will answer your your original question. Yeah. I'm"},{"startTime":832.725,"endTime":836.165,"body":"curious if it's possible because I I don't know what to tell people because I'm"},{"startTime":836.165,"endTime":839.605,"body":"a nerd around this stuff that we're talking about. And I'm like, I don't have"},{"startTime":839.605,"endTime":843.42,"body":"that many passions. I'm trying to find more passions. But then"},{"startTime":843.42,"endTime":846.54,"body":"most people I talk with, they're like, I like this, this, this, and this. It's,"},{"startTime":846.54,"endTime":850.3,"body":"like, 5 different things, and they all don't seem connected. And I could"},{"startTime":850.3,"endTime":853.965,"body":"almost see that, from the outside looking in at, like,"},{"startTime":854.125,"endTime":857.965,"body":"you. How do you do it? It's funny. I some of my passions have"},{"startTime":857.965,"endTime":861.665,"body":"developed on microphone, so I think that's where I've been very lucky."},{"startTime":861.725,"endTime":864.925,"body":"You know, like, I was a high school English teacher when I was listening to"},{"startTime":864.925,"endTime":868.72,"body":"podcasts and getting into it for the first time. And now I'm teaching podcasting"},{"startTime":869.02,"endTime":872.24,"body":"at a college level, so it was nice to, like, come back around"},{"startTime":872.78,"endTime":875.98,"body":"and be able to to apply, like, something I care quite a lot about, which"},{"startTime":875.98,"endTime":879.6,"body":"is, you know, good teaching, pedagogy, praxis,"},{"startTime":879.66,"endTime":882.665,"body":"all that good stuff. And now it's come back for podcasting. And the same thing"},{"startTime":882.665,"endTime":886.365,"body":"for tabletop games for Dungeons and Dragons. It's like I learned"},{"startTime":886.425,"endTime":890.264,"body":"how to do that at a high level on the microphone, and now I'm"},{"startTime":890.264,"endTime":893.945,"body":"putting I wrote my own tabletop RPG, which has just come"},{"startTime":893.945,"endTime":897.64,"body":"out, Model Our Nation Congratulations. If if you're if anyone's interested."},{"startTime":897.64,"endTime":901.48,"body":"Thank you. But, you know, I only I learned that by being making"},{"startTime":901.48,"endTime":905.0,"body":"content in the realm for so long. What I would say is"},{"startTime":905.0,"endTime":908.745,"body":"twofold, and maybe it's two sides of the same coin. One"},{"startTime":908.745,"endTime":912.585,"body":"is find some hobbies to protect. It is such"},{"startTime":912.585,"endTime":916.205,"body":"the default that we monetize our hobbies and our passions."},{"startTime":916.825,"endTime":920.505,"body":"I just started getting into making ice cream. I love ice"},{"startTime":920.505,"endTime":924.339,"body":"cream and I got like I bought some, like, nice ice cream parts and I"},{"startTime":924.399,"endTime":927.839,"body":"some like a good ice cream machine. I got some good cookbooks and I were"},{"startTime":927.839,"endTime":931.199,"body":"working on it and I shared it with a friend of mine. And the first"},{"startTime":931.199,"endTime":934.48,"body":"thing he said was like, Oh, you got a brand this. You've got to start"},{"startTime":934.48,"endTime":937.805,"body":"selling this ice cream. What are you gonna call the brand of your ice cream?"},{"startTime":937.805,"endTime":941.405,"body":"And I'm like, dog, I am just sharing this with you because I"},{"startTime":941.405,"endTime":944.945,"body":"cannot eat a full quart of ice cream"},{"startTime":945.245,"endTime":949.05,"body":"that I make myself. Like, come on. Would I talk about it"},{"startTime":949.05,"endTime":952.329,"body":"on podcast? For sure. I'm not gonna make a whole podcast around it. I'm not"},{"startTime":952.329,"endTime":956.089,"body":"gonna make a TikTok of it because Godspeed, I don't I don't"},{"startTime":956.089,"endTime":959.61,"body":"want to. It's mine. The other side is, like,"},{"startTime":959.61,"endTime":963.295,"body":"fully content brain. And this is my advice for almost everything in"},{"startTime":963.295,"endTime":966.755,"body":"podcasting. Why should this show exist?"},{"startTime":968.095,"endTime":971.935,"body":"Is your hobby can you talk about your"},{"startTime":971.935,"endTime":975.394,"body":"hobby or your passion in a way that doesn't exist"},{"startTime":975.535,"endTime":979.12,"body":"already? And maybe you are so good at this"},{"startTime":979.12,"endTime":982.58,"body":"hobby, and you've never gotten a chance to talk about it publicly."},{"startTime":982.88,"endTime":986.1,"body":"That's a great reason. Maybe you are in a underrepresented"},{"startTime":986.4,"endTime":990.16,"body":"group, and you don't get to talk about something basic. Whenever someone"},{"startTime":990.16,"endTime":993.515,"body":"comes to me with a movie podcast and they're from an"},{"startTime":993.515,"endTime":997.275,"body":"underrepresented group in media, re, not straight white"},{"startTime":997.275,"endTime":1001.115,"body":"men straight white Christian men for that refer I'll add"},{"startTime":1001.115,"endTime":1004.875,"body":"on to that. I'm like, you deserve to make your straightforward movie podcast."},{"startTime":1004.875,"endTime":1008.67,"body":"Go off, please. I do wanna listen to this. I really do. If you"},{"startTime":1008.67,"endTime":1011.709,"body":"think that you're coming at this from a different angle that you don't think exists"},{"startTime":1011.709,"endTime":1015.07,"body":"or maybe your hobby is underrepresented in content, then go"},{"startTime":1015.07,"endTime":1018.509,"body":"ahead. But, like, if you are just contributing to"},{"startTime":1018.509,"endTime":1022.315,"body":"the morass of shows"},{"startTime":1022.535,"endTime":1026.214,"body":"in this subject matter, don't feel like you need to"},{"startTime":1026.214,"endTime":1030.054,"body":"make content about it. Keep it for yourself. I haven't verified this. So I'm"},{"startTime":1030.054,"endTime":1033.81,"body":"saying this, like, kind of out of turn, I guess. But one"},{"startTime":1033.81,"endTime":1037.49,"body":"thing when they say that I wanna make a podcast about this, or I'm"},{"startTime":1037.49,"endTime":1041.27,"body":"going to make a podcast about this, or I've been making a podcast about this"},{"startTime":1041.49,"endTime":1044.869,"body":"topic that I really enjoy. There feels like a,"},{"startTime":1046.285,"endTime":1050.125,"body":"I could keep doing it if money came in, but if money doesn't"},{"startTime":1050.125,"endTime":1053.485,"body":"come in, then I don't know if I would keep doing it, but I can"},{"startTime":1053.485,"endTime":1057.165,"body":"keep doing it until the money comes in. And 98 or"},{"startTime":1057.165,"endTime":1060.74,"body":"99% of the time, if not more, But he doesn't come in and"},{"startTime":1060.74,"endTime":1063.78,"body":"then they keep doing it and then maybe they start to resent it or they"},{"startTime":1063.78,"endTime":1067.62,"body":"start to like pod fade or whatever. And it just kind of hit"},{"startTime":1067.62,"endTime":1071.08,"body":"me like, I wonder how much of not lottery,"},{"startTime":1071.14,"endTime":1074.975,"body":"but how much of I see myself hopefully being like a celebrity one"},{"startTime":1074.975,"endTime":1078.255,"body":"day, like a podcast celebrity, or I saw it in a Netflix TV show. She"},{"startTime":1078.255,"endTime":1081.135,"body":"was a podcast host, and she made it look easy and had a lot of"},{"startTime":1081.135,"endTime":1084.975,"body":"freedom. I wanna maybe have it as a job someday. I wonder how much of"},{"startTime":1084.975,"endTime":1088.59,"body":"that is driving decisions. Oh, 100%. I think that"},{"startTime":1088.59,"endTime":1092.03,"body":"there people only see 2 modes. Either you're"},{"startTime":1092.03,"endTime":1095.79,"body":"destitute and unknown, and there's no money coming"},{"startTime":1095.79,"endTime":1099.15,"body":"in and you're losing money on your subscription fees for"},{"startTime":1099.15,"endTime":1102.895,"body":"capcut and your and Libson and everything"},{"startTime":1103.355,"endTime":1107.195,"body":"or your Joe Rogan or your caller daddy. And those are the only"},{"startTime":1107.195,"endTime":1110.955,"body":"two choices. I 100% think it's like you are just doing this"},{"startTime":1110.955,"endTime":1114.39,"body":"for long enough for you to be chosen by the lottery. And I think that"},{"startTime":1114.39,"endTime":1118.09,"body":"ignores a lot of people. Going back to the patron example,"},{"startTime":1118.39,"endTime":1122.17,"body":"a lot of people who make wages living have a life,"},{"startTime":1122.39,"endTime":1125.795,"body":"a middle class of podcasts, which I consider myself a part of,"},{"startTime":1125.955,"endTime":1129.715,"body":"because, again, I'm not a full time talent. I make a decent amount from"},{"startTime":1129.715,"endTime":1133.555,"body":"join the party. And, you know, Amanda, my my wife and the CEO"},{"startTime":1133.555,"endTime":1137.395,"body":"of multitude is on multiple shows and, you know, it pays our rent. But"},{"startTime":1137.395,"endTime":1141.17,"body":"we also have our other job, which is multitude, the company"},{"startTime":1141.17,"endTime":1144.95,"body":"multitude, the production company. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that."},{"startTime":1145.09,"endTime":1148.79,"body":"I wish that there was more in a spotlight on being a working"},{"startTime":1149.09,"endTime":1152.884,"body":"artist in podcasting instead of waiting for your"},{"startTime":1152.884,"endTime":1156.505,"body":"lottery ticket to be picked. The way you frame that of"},{"startTime":1156.725,"endTime":1160.404,"body":"waiting around until I'm found is"},{"startTime":1160.404,"endTime":1164.085,"body":"the most succinct way I felt like the backfilling of"},{"startTime":1164.085,"endTime":1167.92,"body":"the lottery economy for podcasting. So I really appreciate you saying"},{"startTime":1167.92,"endTime":1171.54,"body":"that. What do you think is the best, smartest approach for podcasters"},{"startTime":1171.68,"endTime":1175.28,"body":"to take as they start to consider video, say that they have"},{"startTime":1175.28,"endTime":1178.695,"body":"been a primarily audio focused show? Oh,"},{"startTime":1178.695,"endTime":1182.215,"body":"boy. It's tough. I mean, the thing is videos come for all of us as"},{"startTime":1182.215,"endTime":1185.975,"body":"more and more people get into short form video. And I"},{"startTime":1185.975,"endTime":1189.335,"body":"think it's it's mainly for the marketing. On attach your resume, we try to talk"},{"startTime":1189.335,"endTime":1193.11,"body":"to as many different types of creators as possible. So we talk"},{"startTime":1193.11,"endTime":1196.31,"body":"about journalists and writers, but also podcasters and,"},{"startTime":1196.63,"endTime":1200.23,"body":"video people and streamers and stand ups, and all of them have"},{"startTime":1200.23,"endTime":1203.99,"body":"needed to make some sort of video component to participate, I"},{"startTime":1203.99,"endTime":1207.745,"body":"think, in the marketing. Josh Gollman, who is a stand up comedian who's who's"},{"startTime":1207.745,"endTime":1211.505,"body":"so funny, did a lot of his work that people knew him from on"},{"startTime":1211.505,"endTime":1215.265,"body":"Twitter, but now had to develop a newsletter and video"},{"startTime":1215.265,"endTime":1219.1,"body":"clips to promote him as a TV writer and also"},{"startTime":1219.1,"endTime":1222.72,"body":"as a standup. So it's really is coming for all of us."},{"startTime":1223.9,"endTime":1227.6,"body":"I think that learning how to do social clips or maybe"},{"startTime":1227.82,"endTime":1231.5,"body":"hooking up with one of your colleagues or friends who know how to do it"},{"startTime":1231.5,"endTime":1235.184,"body":"and then paying them is a good idea if you have any sort of"},{"startTime":1235.184,"endTime":1238.865,"body":"money to distribute. But at the same time, if you like audio, I just"},{"startTime":1238.865,"endTime":1242.625,"body":"wouldn't cede the ground to video. I am a"},{"startTime":1242.625,"endTime":1245.745,"body":"Dungeons and Dragons person, and I have a lot of people in my life who"},{"startTime":1245.745,"endTime":1249.5,"body":"play Magic the Gathering. And we they get"},{"startTime":1249.5,"endTime":1252.88,"body":"jerked around quite a lot by the parent company who owns"},{"startTime":1253.1,"endTime":1256.62,"body":"Dungeons and Dragons and Magic, which is the toy conglomerate"},{"startTime":1256.62,"endTime":1260.46,"body":"Hasbro, who have really been, like, trying to figure out what to do ever since"},{"startTime":1260.46,"endTime":1264.035,"body":"the Barbie movie has popped off. Like, they're really trying to get into IP."},{"startTime":1264.035,"endTime":1267.875,"body":"Something that one of my friends said to me, he said that a"},{"startTime":1267.875,"endTime":1271.415,"body":"lot of the time, they've been pledging to do these massive rollouts"},{"startTime":1271.635,"endTime":1275.29,"body":"of Magic the Gathering cards, which have become more and more fandom based."},{"startTime":1275.29,"endTime":1278.97,"body":"It's almost like Fortnite. We're like the Avengers are here and Star Wars is"},{"startTime":1278.97,"endTime":1282.65,"body":"here. Lord of the Rings is here. Right. But he's like, yeah. And now they're"},{"startTime":1282.65,"endTime":1286.49,"body":"saying they're going to put out like 5 new series a year. And"},{"startTime":1286.49,"endTime":1289.755,"body":"he's like, yeah, companies say all the time they're going to do something and they"},{"startTime":1289.755,"endTime":1292.475,"body":"do it for a few years and then they pivot. So we're not going to"},{"startTime":1292.475,"endTime":1296.235,"body":"live with it forever. So much like the first pivot to video, which"},{"startTime":1296.235,"endTime":1300.075,"body":"did sink quite a number of companies, I think we can look at a college"},{"startTime":1300.075,"endTime":1303.63,"body":"humor. Right. College humor invested quite a lot of energy and time"},{"startTime":1303.63,"endTime":1307.39,"body":"into the pivot to video, putting videos on Facebook, and then they"},{"startTime":1307.39,"endTime":1310.99,"body":"got destroyed by their parent company. And now it's become"},{"startTime":1310.99,"endTime":1314.765,"body":"dropout. Like, there's always another turn if you are"},{"startTime":1314.765,"endTime":1318.525,"body":"flexible and you don't put all of your eggs in 1 basket. So I"},{"startTime":1318.525,"endTime":1321.805,"body":"think you just need to ask yourself what you wanna do. I think there is"},{"startTime":1321.805,"endTime":1325.565,"body":"some merit to participating in the marketing of short form video,"},{"startTime":1325.565,"endTime":1329.33,"body":"but I just don't think there's any reason to see the entire ground just because"},{"startTime":1329.33,"endTime":1333.13,"body":"of a few surveys from Gen Z who do watch"},{"startTime":1333.13,"endTime":1336.65,"body":"their podcasts on YouTube. But again, as I said before, I think it's a"},{"startTime":1336.65,"endTime":1340.49,"body":"confusion of terms now that so"},{"startTime":1340.49,"endTime":1343.87,"body":"many people have seeded the word podcast to also mean"},{"startTime":1344.135,"endTime":1347.895,"body":"a conversation between people on video who"},{"startTime":1347.895,"endTime":1351.575,"body":"have these microphones. You know what I mean? Where the microphone's in the"},{"startTime":1351.575,"endTime":1354.935,"body":"shot. Like, they're calling that a podcast just as much as they're calling"},{"startTime":1354.935,"endTime":1358.295,"body":"serial a podcast. And those are 2 totally different"},{"startTime":1358.295,"endTime":1362.08,"body":"things. And where can people, learn more about? What should they check"},{"startTime":1362.08,"endTime":1365.84,"body":"out? Multitude dot production? Yeah. You're gonna go to multitude dot productions"},{"startTime":1365.84,"endTime":1369.3,"body":"if you're looking for someone to help you start your podcast. You want"},{"startTime":1369.36,"endTime":1373.2,"body":"ongoing podcast production. We make podcasts every week, so we can make podcasts"},{"startTime":1373.2,"endTime":1376.455,"body":"for you every week. If you're in Brooklyn, you can rent our studio. We have"},{"startTime":1376.455,"endTime":1380.215,"body":"a beautiful super brookley, video set that you can you can"},{"startTime":1380.215,"endTime":1384.055,"body":"rent as well. But check out our shows. Join the party, dungeon and dragon"},{"startTime":1384.055,"endTime":1387.575,"body":"show if you're interested. I think I'm the best DM in podcasting, so you should"},{"startTime":1387.575,"endTime":1391.23,"body":"check that out and attach your resume. If you wanna hear more conversations"},{"startTime":1391.23,"endTime":1394.83,"body":"about this stuff with a lot of people who are really in the weeds doing"},{"startTime":1394.83,"endTime":1398.27,"body":"the work online. You have some really cool ones coming up. 1 with Taylor"},{"startTime":1398.27,"endTime":1401.841,"body":"Lorenz, one with Jack Conte, and some other folks that are already on the feet."},{"startTime":1401.841,"endTime":1405.681,"body":"So cool. I'll make sure to link to those in the episode description show"},{"startTime":1405.681,"endTime":1408.627,"body":"notes of this episode. So click that. Thank you again, Eric."}]}