This is Digital Podcaster host d by Dylan Schmid Welcome to Digital Podcaster. And today, I'm super excited for this episode. It's gonna sound like more technical episode here in the beginning, but I promise it's not. Today on the podcast, I'm speaking with Kim Estoque, who is an SEO specialist who helps podcast entrepreneurs increase their Google ranking. What does that mean? So if you don't know what SEO is, it stands for Search Engine Optimization. And let's break down that word real quick, right? It's just optimizing your content, your business, your podcast, for the search engine, like Google, and SEO is a whole world. But basically, there's a lot of people out there and businesses that you can pay a lot of money to, to help you show up higher on the Google search results. And there's people who do for very cheap as well. But you don't get good results. Like maybe it'll be up on the top of the search results for a day or two or something like that. But it's not long term. And yeah, so it's cost very little. And you get what you pay for, or it costs a lot. And what is cool is Kim is on the podcast today sharing a lot of the fundamentals that you can use to implement and it's not very technical, I promise. It's basically just a it's a it's a philosophy, maybe it's a philosophy, but there are some tactical things that came gives us in this episode that you can use right away. And what's cool about to me, at least with podcasting is you can just talk, get it transcribed, and then use that to fuel your search results. So when someone Google's something, you show up higher, and there's a lot of like variables that go into that, which Kim will share about. But for the most part at its most basic fundamental level, you don't need to become an SEO expert to show up on higher up on the search results, you can just publish consistently and do a couple of the things Kim talks about. So Kim breaks it down in a very digestible, easy to understand way that you don't have to spend a lot of time stressing over and it shouldn't be some stressful thing. But I know that after today's episode, you'll walk away with a clearer understanding of SEO and how you can implement it in what you're doing, and show up higher on search results. Because it's super powerful. If someone Google's something that is around your domain. And then you're showing up on searches. If you're selling something that's easier, you're going to get more listeners, if you've got a podcast, if it's your business website, you're going to get more buyers, more clients, things like that. So it's a very powerful tool. And Kim is an expert at it and will break it down real nice for us. So I hope you enjoyed this episode. If there's any part of the podcast that you particularly enjoyed, please send an email to hello at Digital Podcaster. I'd love to know what parts that you love most. And here's my conversation with Kim. Thank you, Kim for joining Digital Podcaster. So I had a few questions around SEO really basic, like I've been in marketing for a few years. But marketing is like vague in a way because there's a lot of different departments within marketing. And I've done a lot with like content marketing. And part of that it's like even within content marketing, there's still different strategies. And one of those, I wouldn't even say strategies, but departments is SEO. And I've coached a lot of people. And anytime SEO is mentioned, there's it's almost like I'm talking about aliens, or something that like people and I'm talking people that have successful businesses like SEO is like not a mystery to like, just anybody listening. Just if you don't know what it is, like you're not alone is what I'm trying to say is there's a lot of people that don't know what it is. So I was like, who is good at SEO. And I've talked with you on Instagram and I was like looking you do SEO for podcasters. I'm like, I don't really want I don't really want like a high level advanced degree in SEO, I would just like to know what it is and what he does and talk to you from your complete beginner cough myself cough. And so what is SEO? What does it even stand for? That's as basic as I'd like to start out with. Yeah, for sure. I know it can be very confusing. So we should probably start with the basics. So SEO stands for search engine optimization. So yeah, so basically, it's making sure that your content is up to the standards of search engines that we use today. For example, like Google Bing, Yahoo, maybe even YouTube or Apple Store? Oh, so there's SEO with search engine optimization. So is that true that does that mean? Because I'll explain it to people. Like is like, the anytime you search anything on Google, like you'll get a bunch of results, but most of the time, you don't go past like the second or third page, right? Like, yeah, people don't go too far. I'm 32. And I remember years ago, when high speed internet wasn't super common. Like, we would go to the 10th page of stuff, because it would be like, maybe there was less web pages or something. But that'd be on web page number nine or 10. I don't think of in years, I have not gone past like the second or third page on something because if it doesn't pop up, right off the bat, then I'm like, I searched wrong. Not I need to look further. It's me. It's a me problem, not a Google problem. You know what I mean? Yeah, I think we're past we're way past that stage right now. Because basically, search engines are answer machines, right? Like we type in anything we want, or we need any questions that we have. And Google makes sure to give you like a set of answers. So over the years, I guess search engines have been made to be smarter to give us the answers that we need. So basically, they do that using a set of standards or rules. So there's so many factors that go into what Google gives you, basically, yeah, so if you are meeting all of those standards that Google has set, then that means your page or your website automatically goes to higher priority, because Google sees that you're answering this person's query. And you're doing it really well. So I'm going to reward you by putting you on top of the search results page, basically, gotcha. And I've seen it's, it seems just like anything, when you're buying something, it's like, there's different levels to things, right. Like, I've seen a look on Fiverr for like, random tasks that I can maybe get help with, and or Upwork. And there's people that do like SEO work for like, dirt cheap, which like, I don't know that. But I guess there's such a big discrepancy between the levels of SEO and what I'm trying to say, like some things I've seen, and I haven't looked too deep into all this stuff, but people will charge next to nothing for SEO, and then other people will charge a lot. What is the difference? It seems like something that's rather not copy paste, but it seems like if there's algorithm to Google or something like that, that it shouldn't be so wide variety. Is that does that make any sense? Yeah, it is, it makes sense. So when it comes to SEO, we know it's complex. So just to make things a bit easier, I would say so this is something I've learned all through my SEO courses. So basically, SEO has a hierarchy of needs, if we put it that way. So basically, what we first want to do, or what Google usually considers first is, if you are answering people's query, that's like first and foremost. So before optimizing for anything, and of keywords, or images, or titles, or tags, first, you need to make sure that you are putting out relevant content. Because if that is if you're answering a question that nobody is asking, people, Google won't even be searching for what you put out there, right. Yeah. So if, for example, and we'll get into how this, you know, works for podcasting in a moment. But if we were making this pod, this podcast, yeah, if we were making this podcast episode, SEO friendly, like just in the terms of not the pod, like the audio itself or something, but and I'm sure you've got all these ninja tricks that I just don't know nothing about, but or maybe know a little about, but would like something like someone, it's something like a response to that what someone's Googling, right, like how to optimize my podcast, SEO. And then because I said that, say I made that the title of this episode. Does that help make it show up higher in the rankings, or is there more to it than that? Yeah, for sure. It really does. And then the next thing that would go up in that hierarchy would be optimizing for the right keywords. Yeah, optimizing. Yeah. So for example, if you do put that title in, and it's something that most people ask chord type into Google them for sure it would it would show up your main topic is actually the title. That means it's pretty significant to what the person is searching for it can compared to putting it in the body of the text or in the heading of the text. So there's still priority. So you lost me for a sec. Oh, yeah. No. And this is this is helping me. So it would be good. Like it would show up higher because it's so direct, because it's the title. But then there's difference if it's in the body, if it wasn't the title it might not show up is Hi. Yeah. So I saw I saw you made a post about, I believe it was about optimizing like a podcast title. And is this probably part of the reason why is that it shows up? Yeah, yeah. Because search engines, they show up, for example, they only show up titles, and they show up short descriptions of what the website or page is about. So making sure that the main keyword that you're targeting is appearing in that short, or like really small, for example, search results, real estate, making sure that it shows up there is very important, because you get people's attention and like a millisecond. And if you lose that, and they don't see what they're looking for. They're probably just going to scroll up. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny, because that relates to so much of like, content in general, like the content you are talking about the content you are the text you are including the video, all that stuff. It all seems to me in a way related to SEO. Like, if you make your content optimized, you're probably in a way being more SEO optimized, in a way. Yeah, yeah. So it's not really all about that technical things. It's basically being mindful of how you present your content, making sure that it's like well organized, making sure that it's digestible to people that it's very user friendly, basically. Yeah. It's also making it SEO friendly. Yeah, that's interesting. Because generally speaking, what I've come across with people is they think SEO is this complex thing. And it is can be complex in a way. But it's also like, when you learn more about it, once you get to such an advanced level of SEO, it's almost like you're back at the beginning, in a way, because you're like, oh, I don't actually want to include so much text. I don't need to worry about hyper analyzing every little thing. Maybe I should just because does the number of pieces of content have anything to do with it, too? Yes, you do have to be consistent about it, you do have to be consistent. Everything really do have to be consistent. It it's like sometimes I'll google something. And I'm like, How is this random blog from like, 2012? And I don't know, maybe there's other site, like maybe there's other articles on that site, I don't really look at the site. But if I looked up something about dogs, for example, and then I'll google something like some best way to play with a dog and a hose or something. And something from like, 2012 will pop up, and it's some random article. And is the search results that come up in Google? Are they customized? A bit to me, though to? Yes, they are. Yeah, I was afraid you were gonna say, Oh, we but yeah, well, you brought up earlier how it could give you like really random results. It could also be because that website is known to be like an authority in that topic. So Google, also wants to know that you know what you're talking about, it would also factor that in that you have to be an expert, that you are an authority, so that the information and the search results that they're the search results are giving you they're going to answer your question right away, because they're what you're talking about, and you have the authority to speak about this topic, basically. And how does Google know if you're an authority, if it's just I don't even know is the AI or like, it's just this imaginary? Yeah. Yeah, it seems that if the topics that you talk about are related based, so instead of putting out random content about different topics, it's more beneficial to, for example, have the main topic and you talk about different things about those topics. So it's you're expanding on different things about one like umbrella topic, basically. Gotcha, that's really helpful and it explains why it's so important with do you say niche or niche? Which one which camp are you niche? Yeah, cool. Yeah. Me too most of the time, then my brain thinks about it too much. And I go, Okay, I'm gonna say niche. But that's really it seems like another reason why it's important to niche down, because it's going to help your SEO, because it's going to further accelerate Google knowing, hey, this person talks about this thing. And they help people in this area. If I had a blog or something about podcasting, which I do, but if I started talking about dog food, Google would then be really confused. On what I'm doing. Yeah. Are there any like tools that you like to use? I've seen a lot out there. I've messed with one called surfer SEO. Have you heard of it? Yes. Actually, surfer SEO. Oh, you do use it. Okay, cool. Yeah. Hey, Kim approved. Awesome. What I've messed around with surfer SEO is they have like a content planner thing. And I don't even know like, exactly in detail what I'm doing when I'm clicking around in the stuff because it's sort of it seems a little over my head. But it seems like a good tool for generating content ideas, because you can see what other people are asking and thinking around the topic. Yeah, one of the things I'm curious about is say I find my topic is podcasting. Yeah, not say I'm acting like it's not me. I'm acting like I'm asking for a friend, Kim. I have this friend who's starting this podcast as me. So in my dog is snoring in the background. I don't know if you can hear. Oh, it's okay. She's uh, she just says she wants to be a part of this say Stokes, they have a blog about podcasting. I don't just I like talking about podcasting. But I also like talking about other things that are associated with podcasting. Like, I have this list I was making actually over here, man, I put in a random page. It's my fault. But I talked about I wanted a long page was probably a really long page. Yeah, no, I put it like I flipped to a random page earlier. And I put it on there. And now I'm now I'm, I don't remember what page I wrote it down. But basically, I was looking at listing like other topics I like to talk about, and I think within Oh, there it is, within podcasting. There's like productivity, personal branding, confidence, getting started, starting from no audience to growing an audience all those things. And I'm curious, like, how much of those things do any of those things that I just said, affect SEO? is Google going to be like confidence and productivity and personal branding? aren't super specific to podcasting? Will that hurt? The results? I think those are pretty relevant things to podcasting, though, and podcasters. And you can try to use Google go to google.com. And like type, for example, like a short keyword, podcast or confidence, and that it would like automatically show you a drop down list of suggestions. So if you do notice that those keywords are in those suggestions, that means people are actually searching for it. So it is it would be relevant to like a certain group of people not sure like niche? Yeah, like, which, which is interesting, because like part of me, is it just something I enjoy helping people with? And part of me? Yeah, but I also want to make sure I'm helping people in the way they want to be helped. Because they there's what people will tell you, when they ask when you ask them like, Hey, how can I help you? They'll say certain things, but you don't always get the most clear answer, because maybe there's deeper insecurities. Maybe I haven't created enough safety between myself and the person that though go you know what, actually, I'm just not feeling confident, because sometimes there's an issue under the issue. And I guess I could see how SEO could help that or that Google Search trick could help with that. Because you're finding the deeper things there. How do you how do you suggest someone Google that but if they didn't, weren't really sure, like, podcast podcasters confidence or something like that? Is there like a way to find those words? Does something like surfer SEO even do that would be like, hey, people who podcasts also have issues with confidence or productivity or overwhelm? Yeah. How do you find those like other outlying things? Yeah, I think a lot of free tools can actually help you with this, like, for example, Google search results. And also I really like for type of websites answer the public or Reddit or people or Quora where people would not feel hesitant to ask their questions. So because there's always that barrier where we need to cross right? Before we really open up to people, for example, like you who consult with podcasters. So I think just being smart about where to find these information would be really nice. Maybe even in Facebook groups, or Twitter? Yeah. Is those are also search engines facing me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And which leads me to next question. How long does it usually take? Like, if someone's starting from scratch? How long does it usually take for them to show up in the search results higher saying they're say they're can? Can sistent Lee publishing say they do a couple blog posts a week? And they'd have a podcast they do once a week or something like that. Is there any like timeline? Because it's not immediate, right? Yeah. So it's not an immediate thing. And there's also other factors that go in other than you consistently putting great content, right. So there's also a consideration of how old your website is, because that is, for example, if you're a new website, it would probably take you longer to show up on Google compared to an older website, that's already put out a lot of content that's already have a reputation, or some sort of authority, basically. So you're building into that. But usually, if you are, if you have a one year old blog, or a two year old blog, I would say if you start SEO optimizing right now, it probably takes around two to three months. Oh, wow. Two, three months, and then that content that you produce starts showing up in Google higher up, basically. Yeah. So basically, once you're established, and once Google knows who your target is, and what type of topic you have authority talking about, it gets pretty fast, as long as you are actually optimizing for the right things. Gotcha. And if also, your website is structured, where Google can crawl everything, like really fast, chacha, nice, yeah, yeah, that's good to know. And next question, podcasting, and SEO, how does it work? Like, people may be listening to this that don't have a podcast that aren't even sure exactly how podcasts work? Because that seems like in itself, like a mystery of how do how do they get distributed? Most people I talked to aren't even aware of different platforms. They think like podcasts are published individually on each platform. Let me upload this to Spotify. Let me upload this to Apple. And it's not like you can just use something like Buzzsprout or Lipson and or pod bean, there's so many, you just upload the audio to there it distributes it to all the platforms for you. How does that affect SEO at all? If I just uploaded some audio to Lipson for example, am I going to and I publish a weekly podcast would anything change? I would say using podcast hosting websites like that, it does help, because in a way you are linking to a site that is already trustworthy. For example, established websites like Libsyn, they probably already have pretty good authority. So when you link that to your website, or Yeah, or your page that would automatically contribute to your domain authority, you have to be mindful of your R s feed. Okay, because there's also information that you need to put in, right, like title, description. And that gets distributed to Apple, Google podcasts, Spotify, right? Yes. So making sure that you update that. And that you have the right keywords that you're targeting. There is also pretty important. Gotcha. So like we've mentioned already the optimizing the title so that it's something that people are searching for. And then do you treat the show notes? How do you? Is there an analogy you'd be able to use with the show notes? Oh, it's like a blog or it's something? How do you treat the show notes? Yeah, so show notes. I think they're one of the most underused, really powerful SEO components of podcasting. Because when you publish your podcast, it's audio data. And right now, I don't think there's like a pretty good way and a pretty clear explanation for how search engines index audio data. So at the moment, we're like, yeah, we're like left with the task to make sure that what we talked about and podcast are also in written form. But not only do you have to transcribe, you also have to make sure that the show notes that you're putting out there is something that people would readily understand. So it has to be like structured, like, pretty much like a blog to make it ready for Like user consumption rate, because sometimes I see show notes or transcriptions that are like a big chunk of tech. It's just like their copy paste from the transcription. Yeah, I've seen that too. Yeah, I was gonna ask about that. Yeah, I mean, that in a way could contain keywords. Yeah. But users are pretty much probably not very enthusiastic when it comes to reading a chunk of text like that. Yeah. And yeah, so Google knows that. But do they know if I read it? Do they know if people read that part? Yeah, so what's funny is like, Google has standards, but those standards are catered to user experience. So Google pretty much tracks like how you move your mouse, which part of the page you like, stay on the longest, like, which part you find interesting. Or if you're just going to scroll down, or if you're just going to exit the page. That all like ties in factors in when Google ranks your page, basically. Yeah. So if it sees that you're not really engaging the user? Uh huh. Then Google's probably gonna put you lower down bliss. So Google's watching everything, basically. And they know if even if that transcription isn't formatted correctly, or optimization say not correct, it's not optimized. It still could maybe catch people enough that they do read it and Google's okay, it's pretty good. So we'll just we'll throw it up higher and the results because maybe there's not as much competition, is that be the other thing? Yeah, that also is like a really good thing to consider. If you're like talking about something that, for example, you're a pioneer in that niche? Yeah, if you have no competition, if you're the only one putting out content about it, then that's what Google has. So that's what it's going to give to people who search. So say, I did some research and there wasn't a lot of posts on podcaster confidence, say that was like, not many articles. So that would mean less competition for me higher chance that I show up in the results. Maybe, yeah, in a way, but also you It's also very important that people search about it. Got it. Yeah, cuz if no one's searching, and then that would be almost like I have a somewhat unique name in the sense that if I google search my own name, it's somewhat easy for me to show up. There's a train that there's a Dylan Schmidt, who's like a Olympic level, trampoline person. And he has shown up for years, and he's in New Zealand, and I am coming for him. I want to beat him, Kim. That's what this whole episode is about. I didn't want to say it. I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Not kidding. But I'm kidding. for all intensive purposes. Yeah, but but I was like, I want to knock this other Dylan Schmidt off. So I'm thinking like, I can do that through publishing consistently, including my name and articles. And because my name is not super common, that I have somewhat of a chance showing up higher on Google. Is that accurate? Yeah, so I would say names are pretty tricky. Oh, are they? Because? Yeah, yeah. Like, for example, there's like another Dylan Schmidt. But I guess it's tricky, because people would probably not be searching for the word Dylan Schmidt unless they know you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So that would only be advantageous to for, let's say, example, for your existing audience, it would, I think what would be more important is to make sure that the topics that you talk about are what you showcase first, and then did you want to include your name? Maybe put it somewhere towards the end of the title? Yeah, gotcha. And so that, oh, so it looks at the placement of the words to Yeah, see, this is how it's so complex, but like, at the same time, it's like, it's one of those things where it's, this is something I don't, I would not recommend that people need to stress out over. And it's easy to get overwhelmed because it's like, complex, at the same time. It is one of those things, that is a perfect thing to get help with, like, what you help people with, and that people can then just share their message. And then someone like you can help craft it in a way who has done the research of how it needs to be crafted to shape it. Is that right? Like in my thinking of like, how you help people and what you do is like crafting their message. So it's SEO optimized in a way. Yeah, that's basically what we do because we can't really influence content creators what to put out there, so we just have to make sure that it does meet seal requirements. And yeah, that's cool. Basically, that's cool. So names not high, don't show up as high. And is that because they're there's like, the sounds pretty like murky. But this episode is marketing in a way. There's like your cold audience. And then there's your warm audience, right? Your cold audience would be people who are just learning about you for the first time or like, very not familiar with you. And then there's your warm audience that know you. They like you. And they're like, following you. Maybe they're on your email list or something like that. There's also the people that have never heard of you that are searching for like someone that would be in your cold audience, because they're just not even but they're not even aware. So they're not really in your audience. Yeah. It can be confusing, that cold audience that are unaware of you, they already have search intent. Like they, they probably know what their problem is. And they know what they want to look for. So in a way, that makes it pretty powerful, because users who go on to Google already know what they want to do already know what they want to look for. I think that's like the beauty of SEO. You don't? Yeah, you don't know who you're targeting. But you do know what they're looking for. Yeah. And that's what you want to work towards, optimizing for. And so we talked about surfer. And that's one tool you can use. But when it comes to just starting out, for people that pick like a wide thing, say they're like, I want to talk about self help, for example, that's pretty wide. That is not specific. Yeah. How specific does someone need to get in order to like, optimize what they're doing? For example? Do they need to get to Self Help for dog owners? Who are 32 years old? Or is it a little bit less specific? Or is it after going after certain topics instead? Or what's like, how would you suggest someone approach that? I think, again, it would be really valuable to know who you want to talk to first. And then knowing what they want to search for and what is valuable to them. Yeah. I think always the first few questions that you want to ask yourself, whatever you're thinking about topics, because you can probably like niche down to like really specific things. Yeah. But if people are not looking for it, and it's not valuable to them, it's not gonna bring in any traffic at the end of the day. Yeah, yeah. It's, you say they're looking for it. But they're not getting value from it, though. You said? Yeah, yeah, that's really interesting. I was just speaking with someone who helps people with confidence, and creativity. And he was saying, he's not really in the marketing world. He's got a Broadway background. And he focuses on just authenticity and serving his audience. And we're talking, I thought, there is an SEO strategy in a way to that, because you're so focused on helping your audience or not even audience, he talks about your audience. But he goes so specific to like the person that he's talking to, like, I'm talking to a 24 year old in Manhattan, like, very specific, and creating content and serving this one person. And it seems like in a way that like that there is some validity to that of that could be an SEO strategy in a way. Because at the end of the day, it's about creating content, like you can't optimize anything if it doesn't exist. So you have to be creating content. And part of that is by being specific with who you're helping. So it's really about like, first part is really solid content creation, you're serving them. Yeah. Second part is like, making sure that's not just wasted, so that you can help more people like that. And the way you make sure it's not wasted is through SEO. Sounds like if I'm understanding Yeah, for sure. Like you do really need to have clarity, first of what you want to bring to people. Because it would be a challenge to optimize for something you don't know who you're targeting. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Like? Yeah, yeah. SEO is like the second step, after you have a concrete foundation of what message you want to put out there and what value you want to give to people. Because it's SEO is basically like helping you bring that message out there. Yeah, yeah. It can amplify your message in a way that it's I wouldn't say it's always cheaper, but it's maybe it's more resourceful than just doing more ads like more paid ads. cuz I totally agree. Because SEO, I would say if you have a good foundation around it, it is something that can pay you in like dividends. It's like evergreen content, basically. Because it's always going to be out there. And once people know about, for example, one specific one specific page, that's like really given value in helping people that go, like, Snowball over the time, you're as, if you choose to go with paid ads, you have to be constantly putting money in it. Yeah. And they changed the rules like Facebook, just, you know, because of Apple, they changed the rule. So with Facebook ad cost has gone up, a lot of stuff has changed there, which is like, scary for people that rely on paid advertisement when a big source of their income is resulting on that. Not that there's no longer a place for paid ads. Of course there is but it is scary. Of how much can change with paid ads. And at the same time, yes, stuff could change with Google. But like, at the same time, it's been pretty stable. It's been pretty, like consistent with, they just want to get you the answer. And the answer, if you can provide that answer through your business, your service, what you're talking about, like you're going to and I don't know, I mean, I'm gonna bring this up. But please tell me if it's off. Because I don't have anyone else on this podcast that would like correct me if I'm wrong at the angle of this. But people will like, easily be like, this doesn't apply to me because I have a comedy podcast where I sit with my friends and chat. And I'm like, How does SEO apply to me? And it's not going to apply to you if that's your attitude? Because you can walk right out the door with that attitude. But but if you were to use SEO, and you want to apply it, what you could do is how are you helping people like what like going more specific, and having intention behind your podcast? Not the not always like the content tweaking, but like your who you're helping, if you're a comedy podcast, how old are you? Who are the other people that are listening? How old are like they What's your audience size? Not size, age? And then, you know, what are they searching for to find you and then including that in your show notes, in your title in what's on your webpage, where you're playing it where they can find you. So when they look like best comedy podcast for 30 year old, they you're likely to show up? Is that accurate? Yeah, I think our conversation is has like really paid off because you that's like basically what we want to like, share with people. It's not only about like, it's not just like putting keywords in like specific place places, it's making sure that you're giving value to the target that you want to engage with. Basically, I think that target. Yes, that's a great picture of that. Yeah, firstly, just stay on target. Yeah. So without a clear target of who you're talking to, there will be no showing up in the search results because Google, or just we say Google, but it could be any of the search browsers is like Google's, we don't know who you help. So we're not gonna we wouldn't, why would they include it like, you haven't made it clear who you help. So we don't know how to give you two people essentially. But the more specific you make it, and it and again, it's like something that I don't think that people need to because it's like, funny, it's like, you can start stressing out over this stuff. And I think this is a perfect thing to outsource and get help with. Because once you understand it, then you understand where your dollars are being spent. And you understand what you're investing in. And like, how cool would it be if you're out there creating a podcast? And then that podcast turns into like evergreen type content. And then when people search things, it shows up like that is so cool. Yeah. And the content creation part is the slowest part for a lot of people. And what I like want to preach from the rooftops, which I am preaching is, podcasting makes that really simple. Because, yeah, you could just use on your phone or computer you can use like dictation where you just speak it and then the words appear. Or you could just have a podcast with you can and we could talk about podcasting, SEO. And then optimum. I'm just saying I'm gonna ask you later on about this, but optimize the title, optimize the show notes, and then like, get a transcription format like a blog, and then see what happens in two months. Maybe when someone types podcasting, SEO, it shows up higher in the results. It's purely based on the words we're speaking to each other right now. We're just having a conversation. Is that possible on my like? Yeah, that's basically like the whole premise of why we wanted to do SEO for podcasts. Yeah. Because it's such a like untapped resource. It's a source of knowledge. And there's so many podcasts out there and it's such a shame that People are not able to see it, unless it's like transcribed or like properly published as like a blog. So it is I think it's Things are looking up, though, because I think people do see the value in podcasts. And I would say like, in a few years, it would probably be really possible that Google would already be like indexing everything that we're talking about right now. Yeah, you don't even have to transcribe it or make it into blogs. Yeah, I could see though on one hand, though, that like Google would see because, say, however long we are into the conversation, like Google is gonna be like, we're not gonna make this person. Listen to the whole conversation. Or maybe we'll point right to the part or something, make it easier, like timestamps on like YouTube, for example, YouTube videos, they favorite SEO videos, SEO on YouTube is like when you timestamp stuff that shows up. Excuse me, and I could see that maybe with podcasting as well, it to me, it doesn't seem like one of those horrendous tasks, to if you can't, if you don't have time for yourself, because there's already 40 tasks associated with each podcast episode. But if you've already done all this work, just take what you already have. It just rolled it a little bit. It doesn't have and like you said, it doesn't have to be perfect. But it's a waste of content, to just let that just not be done. Like you said, like, there's all these podcasts content being made. And it's just drifting away into nothing. Because it wasn't transcribed. And it wasn't published appropriately. Yeah. Yeah. So that's one hope that we have talking about how important it is. It's huge. It's yeah, it's like, just it's, yeah, it makes me a little not upset. But I don't know a little irritated thinking like, you do all this work. And then I'm just gonna hit stop on this. And then like, hit publish, and it's done. But it's just wait, you just a couple more steps. You're almost there. That's like running a race and you're like a 75% Complete reality like it should the complete picture should contain transcribing this and getting it up on a site. Awesome. I think that is like a good place to at least pause on SEO for today, because I want to quit while we're ahead. Because everything is making sense right now. And I feel like you could say a couple words that could just make me go. Because I can I know, I can wrap my head around this game. i It feels really doable. And I know for people listening, that I'm sure they have some questions, but that's why we can continue the conversation too. So how can people work with you? Yeah, you can find me on Instagram, basically. And on Facebook. Yeah, at can be talks under pod. And basically, we'll see all SEO and all podcasts things that I talked about there. And just give me a DM and we'll get talking. Yeah, yeah. Browse through your content. And there's so much good stuff there. And at the same time, I am the biggest advocate for outsourcing and getting help, I would highly recommend getting help with this. Now that you have a deeper understanding of SEO and reaching out to Kim. I'll link directly to your Instagram and Facebook in the show notes. That links in Shona that's got to be some SEO thing right there too, right. Yeah, everything. I feel like every word I say now is being watched by Google and then they're either going to make it higher in the page. You never know. You never know. Now when someone searches you never know. Okay, it's gone. Thank you so much, Kim for joining me on the podcast. And yeah, reach out to her for SEO How awesome was that? Kim is so cool. And I found out after the episode, we recorded that she's also a surfer. So awesome. I hope I get to go surfing with her one day. That'd be cool. Probably about yep, that's too much. All right. Once again, thank you to Kim estoque. for joining me on this conversation today. Check the show notes for more info about where to find Kim and link up with her. She posts a lot of valuable content on Instagram, as it pertains to SEO, and more tips and tricks and things like that. And then she also has her company nurture SEO. If you'd like to work with Kim, so check the show notes for that. And if you'd like to get some free tools and resources for podcasting, make sure to check out the show notes. I just launched a updated version of the ultimate podcasting resource library which has a ton of free stuff in it. It's all free. Check the show notes for that. If you are thinking about starting a podcast or if you have a podcast and you want help with like growth and monitor and things like that there's a lot of free tools in there to check out because there's a lot out there and I've compiled it all in one area so check that out and I hope you enjoyed this episode I will see you in the next one bye now