This is Digital Podcaster hosted by Dylan Schmidt. Welcome to Digital Podcaster. And this week, I have a very special guest. Before I bring her on, I just want to say a little bit about what today's episode is about. So my guest is a lady named a picture. And she is a creativity coach, she has a lot of experience and background and creativity. And it's funny because creativity is a bit of a like, vague word I'll say, doesn't really say, you know, you could be like creative. Yeah, people feel creative. Sometimes they don't feel creative. It doesn't mean necessarily a very specific thing. But what I want you to view this episode lens with is how you can use some of these tools to become more creative. Well, I believe fully that everyone is creative. I think that there are certain activities we can do that help us feel more creative. And when you're in your like creative essence, like pure creativity, you can create something that the world has never seen before. And you can create something that you never thought possible. And I think that there is a lot of depth to creativity. So if you know I'm kind of speak, I'm kind of almost putting a disclaimer to anyone who's like, I'm already creative, or I know I'm creative, cool. And you'll find a lot of, you know, tips and tricks throughout this episode of things that you haven't thought of before. Because trust me, there's a lot of unique conversation happening in here that I didn't expect. And I didn't even know a lot going into it with my conversation with the picture. And she is a pro at what she does. And I guarantee you she will have you think outside the box in ways that you didn't think possible. And it's a lot of fun. So it's, it's a really fun episode. But I just wanted to set that up first in like, if you're thinking creativity as it sounds like when I could just tune out, I'm telling you, it is well worth a listen, because it will have you thinking from things from a different perspective. And I'm really glad I had the opportunity to speak with a picture. Because I learned a lot and it was a lot of fun. And I know you will too. So without any further ado, check out this conversation I had with the picture on creativity. Let's get into it. Thank you, guys so much for joining me on digital podcaster I wanted to chat with you about creativity. So I know before you hopped on here, like I was like, you know, we're not gonna like start at the beginning where where you went to school as a child, all that stuff. But I do have one question just about your your past. So I noticed on your Instagram, a little bit of like workshops with like, drawing characters, right? What is that about? That looks really fun. What was I have been in the creative industry for over a decade now. And I've studied visual communication, and all these factors, the norms around graphic design, visual communication, building identities for many, many brands here. And then I think it wasn't enough for me, every time I just wanted to push myself more to bring more meaning more value. So I started hosting these workshops, where I would just invite a bunch of people to come and join me where we could think freely, and we could help them draw. So we had actually had people from people from different backgrounds. So there were lawyers and doctors and engineers who thought that they're not creative, and they cannot draw. And just because the workshop was built in such a way that they ended up drawing beautiful characters so themselves, it was just like a matter of pushing themselves to think more freely think more openly. Give them a platform where they could just come and have fun, and just not get worried about the intricacies or how good the drawing is. So yeah, that was the that was all about that. And I've been doing these workshops for a long time. Now. I think it's because of COVID. And the pandemic, you know, everything was, it sort of came to a halt. But yeah, that's how it's been. That's cool, because I love drawing, you know, like, I'll buy art gear, you know, get like, I have an iPad, I got the Apple Pencil, like, oh, you know, by getting this Apple iPad and pencil, I'm going to become a jar. I've had an iPad for I think, like 10 years, maybe now maybe just a little bit less. And the amount of times I've drawn on it has been like about an hour so I'm not very super active with it. But it's one of those things that I always wanted to do because when I see someone like like, like the images that were shared on your Instagram and like that is so cool to just be able to sit down and then draw these like characters. Yeah, and like, I think a lot of that translates to a lot of things like Whether entrepreneurial wise or just business wise, but just in general creativity was like, how do you get? How do people get in like the frame of mind just to be able to draw these characters? Because I'm guessing, like, I could be wrong based on like, the characters, it didn't seem like these are like professional artists coming in. But the people like not that like the art was bad or anything, I don't know, just my like, guess is that like, it's not like, these people do design all the time? Or are they? Yeah, so they actually don't come from design background. And these people, we actually made them think about something surreal. So if they had to be if they had to be their favorite character, if, you know, what is their Alter Ego, like, is there like a spirit animal that they're really fond of? Is there something that, you know, some people imagine themselves to be like, what do you call it like a Rubik's cube. And, you know, people were just imagining themselves as different objects. And that's what that's what that was a starting point for us. So we made them reflect upon things that they wish to be or they think they are or something that's their Alter Ego, or just random things like that. And that's, that was the starting point. And then we took them through, like an entire process of how they can start drawing this character out and put this out on paper and see what that would look like. So it didn't have to be fun. Yeah. Yeah, that's fun. Yeah. And then And then by like, not having to be perfect. They, they look perfect in their own way. Because they're, like, so unique, you know? Who, who or what is your, like, spirit animal or that you wish to be? I think an elephant. Elephant. Yeah, that's cool. I think it's really one of those really big elephants or like, nothing mischievous, which is a friend who looks Oh, she is a lot going on, is up to something all the time. And also, like, elephants have this sort of niceness about them. They're very calm, serene, out there to serve people sort of a vibe. And but at the same time, they're always like, up to something crazy. Like there are like 10 things going on in their heads. I think, like, I don't know. I would love to Yeah. Oh, I love that. I love that. Yeah, elephants are interesting, because they're like, they're so majestic, you know? And then, and then, like, you don't always know what's going on behind those eyes, because they don't show right. Like To the untrained, you know, animal. person, you know, they, you know, they're like, what's going on behind those eyes? Because they don't like you don't you don't see like eyebrows. Just, you know, looking at you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Can I tell you what mine would be? It'd be a slot probably. Oh, wow. But like a good slot. A cute slot? Not like one of those? Well, I guess all slots are cute, actually. So I love slots. Well, I do love them. Because this clip. Yeah, I mean, I'm not like, I'm always going, you know, like, I'm always going. And like, the idea of a slot just seems it's kind of the other end of the spectrum of like, you know, what I would probably be doing if I wasn't going, so they're just like, laying there. And like, part of me just seems really inspired to just lay there and, and how slow they move. It's just like, you know, like, a picture. And it's just, everything's very slow. And they seem like cuddly and cute. And like, they seem they seem I mean, I don't I don't think I've ever seen like a jerk off. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's no jerk sloths out there seem like elephants. There's no jerk elephants out there. Like, you know, like, elephants. They got a big heart, you know? Yeah, that's exactly what I was trying things. Exactly. Yeah. slots, I think have a big heart too. You know, there's some animals out there that seemed like jerks to me, but But it's but this this file, even go in this conversation like, or this topic thinking about this. But it's interesting how the idea of like, animals can spark so much creativity, or like, you know, like, it gets the mind going in a way that like, I don't know, it's it's such a like a starter? Do you find people have trouble during these workshops? Like how, like thinking up something like we'll have someone sit there like kind of stuck like a picture? I don't really know what I should be doing. Right? Yeah, so many times people are stuck. They don't know what they want to be they don't know. So for which we have given them a cheat sheet, cheat sheet sort of thing. And we've sort of explained the ideas behind those things that if you want to be a monster, these could be like, what are the qualities? What are your personality traits, we make them reflect upon those and then give them a few options. And once you've given them a few options that are able to sort of either pick from the options or build upon that and then that's how they get closer to what they want to be or what they wish to be. That's cool. So you narrow it down by by giving them options, right? Yeah. Just yeah. Which is interesting. Because, yeah, go ahead. So just options, and then a few reasons behind those options, and then see what they relate to the most. And then they start building upon those, you know, those reasons and match it with personality traits, and then come up with something that's completely like their imagination. Hmm, yeah. Oh, something completely unique. Yeah. Oh, wow. So it would be like combining multiple animals into one. Yeah. So there are people who've done that there are people who would say that, okay, my face is going to be like that of a pig. And then maybe like, my body is going to be off a dog. And this is how I behave. And then they combine all those elements together, it's a lot of fun, what you like the results are a lot of fun. The outcomes that you see Finally, on paper, they're just super interesting, sometimes, really, really dark. And sometimes they're hilarious. Interesting, that is interesting. I like the dark ones. It's a It's funny, because like, that seems like almost like something that like, as a kid, I would just be natural, like you just show up at school. And they probably do something like that, you know, but then as an adult, like, we don't really create opportunities to do that. Because things seem more serious all the sudden, then it's like, there's more of the line or something. It's like we can't, you know, we can't, we can't just have fun for a moment. Because fun does lead to productivity. That's like, exactly what if actually, the most productive thing we could do is just have more fun, right? That's that's exactly what we aim for. So all the people who come to the workshop, they are aged between, I think they're all like above 27. So they're working professionals. And they're people who are pure workaholics and they don't see life alive beyond work. So those are the kinds of people we're working with, which is why it's it's so much fun. Wow, that's cool. And you said, so you help also with brand identities? Correct? Yeah. That's like the boy in one part of my job. Because it is really Yeah, because it's so mundane. It's just something very predictable at the time and something that I've been doing for decades. And now, in this next phase of my life, I'm trying to move towards educating because I really believe in sharing the knowledge that I have had and the knowledge that I've got from my mentors, etc. and pay it forward, pass it on, and, you know, maybe enable people to think more creatively boost their creative potential. That's, that's, that's what I'm trying to do through my Instagram page, actually. Nice. Okay. So before we go to like, where you're moving towards, I have to ask because, because brand ID brightened the brand identity is also like, still, like, I think, kind of vague to most people. Like, they're just like, what is that even? Like? Is that like creating logos is that like, so here, in India, it's slightly different. People don't really believe in brand, strategy and storytelling, so you will find very few brands really focusing on that, which sort of makes the whole process of building identities a little shallow. So after the point, you know, you sort of get like, you don't want to do more of one offer more, but people are not open for that. Whereas I work with clients in New York and San Francisco on the West Coast. And people are more open to the idea of storytelling like, Okay, this is my vision, these are my values. Let's create something that reflects that. Here. It's more like, okay, let's just quickly make up a logo, put it online, like, let the product go live. And then we'll think about the strategy bit, which is like an incorrect way of working. And yeah, so I don't know if I should be saying this on a podcast, but I'm about that. Yeah, people I think don't appreciate brand strategy, like the virtual identities so much, but more of the aesthetics of it. So the way it's perceived here is that it's just making something look beautiful. So you give a color, give a form to something, and that becomes the identity, which is an incorrect way of seeing things. It's funny you say that, because like I do, see, I've worked with, you know, I've worked in, like addition to podcast, and I've worked in marketing for quite a few years. And I have seen that too, like to someone that is maybe new to business, maybe they like or they're like, their expertise is like in their craft, whatever that is. And then they're like, I want to grow my business online. But one of the things they need is like a brand identity. And it's like the, the choices they make in that brand identity are usually what they would like, not what like their audience would like. And it's really to me always, like, obvious, and I'm confused sometimes when I look I'm like, this is makes no sense to me. Like I don't know how if you're Chiropractor or a doctor or therapist or something like why is your logo like all these like symbols and things that make no sense to me whatsoever, but it looks good. But it looks like a piece of art. It doesn't look like a piece of like brand, you know? And so it's I think that there is still some some of that over here as well. Why do you think that? Is? That like, is that like, because they're making it for themselves, or something like? So there could be two reasons that I see like, now I'm really digging deeper into the problem where I see what kids are being taught over here in universities, that sometimes, again, it's based out of the fact that it should look good, and not what's needed. What's what's, what's the what the problem the max, it's not about that it's more about what will people like to see visually. So what's more visually appealing. And the second bit, I think the way it's been going on for years now with at least the the freelance ecosystem that we have over here, in there, again, like people come come with an expectation of just getting something that looks good, that looks minimal, is the new term people are, like getting familiar with, so everything should look minimal and good. So that's sort of the definition of an identity. So I think like somebody needs to sort of break the chain, either like the education system sort of needs to change or evolve. Or maybe like people need to be educated or brands need to be educated about how can they really benefit from having the story to tell and then the estate or then the visuals reflecting that instead of this, TEDx? That's love that. And so when you're thinking through, like, how would you with your career creating like a brand? I'm guessing these brands, these brand identities that you're working with? It's all different types of companies, right? It's not just one type, or is it? Yeah, like, how would that so well, with I worked with people for I've built lifestyle brands as tools. I work with startups, food companies, it's like I worked with across I think, 12 or 14 industries. So really different, it's really different. But like, the baseline is the same that they want something that looks good. Yeah. And so when you're creating it, like more forward thinking, what kind of things are you taking into consideration? Say for like a lifestyle type brand, when you're making their overall? Like, is that is that the type of stuff you're moving away from is like? So if I've understood your question correctly, it's you're asking me that, how do I approach the problem? What's my ideal process is something very different, what I would like to follow personally, and depending like basis, my understanding of things, and then there is one process that the client needs basis, then understanding of the product and their understanding of design. So what I would like to follow on this, I've done I think, over the last 10 years, I've worked only with one brand, one or two brands for who was follow the ideal process, when I would understand the kind of product they're building and what their values and the vision is, how are they different from other brands, what is the story they want to tell, bring all of that together on paper and understand that one, one, statement one, something that kind of, you know, makes them stand out and makes them relate to the kind of audience that targeting and then build upon the identity but then move to the visual visual part of it and see that if the visuals really communicate what the messaging is, but for the brands that we how we go about here is that there is no strategy there is no storytelling. So you start off by looking at a few references of what they like, which they already have in mind. So they share a few references bases that because you don't want to do a copy paste job, you sort of go through the references, pick the elements that they like, put them together sometimes create something from scratch, and then make variations of it. So you know, the overall process is sort of shallow that we follow. And yeah, that's how I've been working it's really interesting. So once you when you're talking like imagery is it like stock photos or like images you create for the brain? Not stock photos, but the kind of visuals they like deriving things from there. So if there's an ad that they've seen that they like to understand the sensibilities if there is a there is an album cover people share like some some existing logos, some graphics that they came across, and then they would say that okay, this is the kind of sensibility we have so basis that we pick those up and then start working towards building a logo which kind of matches that sensibility. Do you use like, some type of like vision board movie board type type of thing where all the time. So we start by creating a mood board for the brand. And then, so we give them three or four options of the kind of directions they can take in terms of visuals. And once they sort of pick that, you know, this is the kind of direction we like, we start building on it further. And how often is apple on every mood board? I feel like Apple every single day on about 60 to 70 identities so far. And each time everybody wants to be like, Happy is the thing. So that's so funny. It's like, I mean, it's like I get it, because it's like the what one of the most valuable companies, tech companies especially and then the branding, but they fall on the more minimal side of things, you know, like, don't they like, more minimal clean, usability is very high perceived value is very high. Good. You know, like, I agree with that. But that's also apple. Now, Apple has also had their entire journey of identity and evolving. So people don't really see that Apple has spent years building and improving and evolving their identity, which is why we've gone into the stage in the first place. So yeah, it takes it takes a lot of time for a brand to evolve, and then match the trends or you know, just cater to the right kind of audience to keep up with the trends. I think. So takes a lot. Yeah. And like, How can I enjoy me? Yeah, like if, I mean, it's sounds like weird to say like, oh, the be the next Apple. But like if someone wanted to end up even remotely close to where Apple is, in terms of branding, like, how do you start today? To be you know, like, I'm asking for myself, really, but anyone else who's listening, but like, you know, how do I start? What do I need to do today to end up to be like apple? Like, it's through trial and error? Would you say? A lot of it is definitely trial and error, but it also about solid goal setting or having that visual? What do you want to be defining that because you know, the kind of vision statements or the problem statements, we're coming across a very broad, very vague. So how do you sort of make a vision statement or do a goal, do your goal setting in such a way that you know, where you want to be 10 years from now that, you know, this is the kind of brand I want to build this is the kind of personality, this is what people should think of me as. And that's how you sort of start projecting yourself. That that has been like my biggest learning so far that you have to get your projection right from day one. So you have to get your vision right from day one, it can of course, evolve, but it cannot change like 360 degrees. Yeah, I bet. Yeah, yeah. Cuz then you're back where you started, right? Like in terms of being not sure where to go? Does that, that seems like one of those things. I'm curious if you agree or disagree with this, but it seems like one of those things that is very hard to do by yourself, because, you know, like, you're creating it for other people, because other people are gonna interact with your brand. And it's like, when you're doing a drawing a character that's in your head, that makes sense. But like a full one, trying to create this vision of where you want to go, is like, there's a limit of where it can be done by yourself. At a certain point, you need to have input from others to, like, kind of either affirm where you're going is like, on target with what they like, you're seeing the same thing, you know, right? Is that kind of what I would say. So I see this as I see this as a visual that, you know, you're here, your vision is here, and these are the people you're catering to. So what are the steps you need to sort of what are the steps you need to take to get there and those steps can mean that you need to collaborate with other people get other people on board those steps can mean that you be a solo entrepreneur, and just outsource a lot of work. It really depends, like To each his own sort of a thing. Everybody has their own journey. But yeah, like it's about figuring out those steps and figure out what each step demands or needs. Yeah, that's cool. That's really cool. So so you're moving away from this though, and I just had to pick your brain about it before you know before I never get to ask you again about a fiction. But so what do you want to move into more what is because this You said this kind of kind of boring I guess for you it to me, it's interesting, but to you it's boring. I get I get it but the entire world. I'm like the world around me. A lot of people think I'm stupid because I've left I'm I'm currently on a sabbatical. So I've left a very profitable business to make this move and I'm in the middle of a career change. session where I think I can deliver something more valuable, more meaningful, where, which is why I've been very fascinated. And I deep dive into the idea of being creative. Not in terms not in the way people understand what creativity is, but what really creativity is. And I'm trying to push that and make people aware about what creativity is being more like a creative Catalyst, and help people boost their creative potential and creative thinking, because I think it's one of the most important skills needed in the future. And with organizations and teams as individuals, at every point in time, it's it's a way of living. So that's what I'm trying to teach people and educate them about what creativity is, in what's like the, the, because I mean, I go through periods where I'm like, Ooh, I'm super creative. And then other periods where I'm like, Nope, just not no original thoughts, just completely not creative. Like, I'll go back and forth between the two most more often than not like feeling creative. But there's, you know, you know, I'll take creative sabbaticals, I guess it'd be cool. I'm just getting like, not green right now. What would you say is like, some steps one could take if they're not feeling creative, to maybe feel more creative? That's a really hard one. Because there are so many theories around that, you know, how do you sort of really creative block? Yeah. It's not something that can happen overnight. Yeah. Like, do you want me to give you tangible actions that you can take? Because whatever what I feel is a creativity is really like a way of living. As I said, it's a habit, it's a practice. It's not. It's when you don't set it for the first option on the first solution every single time. And that's what you call look beyond what's given when people say that look out of the box, think out of the box, what does that really mean, but not settle with the first solution that comes to your head. So, John, what I do, like some actions that I take, when I go to a creative block is talk to other people, that's my the first go to step, I pick somebody else's brain on the kind of problem that I'm facing. And that sort of leads to a conversation, which opens up like several thoughts and ideas and opportunities for me. And that's where the entire brainstorming sort of begins again, and I'm able to reconnect the dots. Another thing that I really do is do the mind mapping, go the mind mapping way and just keep doing it, keep doing it. And I don't really prefer working on iPads or smaller screen with sort of restrict my vision, because I feel like that's a it's just something that I do I work with lots of papers. So I really tape the papers, make them like really big, so I'm not never short on space, and then I do the mind. Yeah, so I'm never really short on space. It just helps me think she'll tape the paper. I'm curious about this, because this is something I've been thinking like, literally last night, like late last night, I was on Amazon, because I My office is not like huge, and my wall space isn't like their stuff kind of in the wall space. So I have this, like, I gotta show you this, I have this calendar. Have this like calendar, I wanted to hang up this dry erase one. And. And there's like not, I was like, I had to move some stuff around to be able to hang it up. But I love the idea of like a huge wall calendar so that I can like really map out because I'm not the best at like planning, social things. Anything that's like not really work related. So I want to add my work stuff to that. And also add my social stuff to that so that I can like look at it and not feel like I'm clicking through a tab on my calendar on my computer or my phone because it's hard to look ahead. Like to me the calendar on the phone or computer is great for like the day and week of but like a month for you. I'm like this thing is stressful. Because there's like, I'm looking at George Washington's birthday. Or like, I guess that's not you celebrate George Washington's birthday in India, but like, you know, looking at different holidays, that aren't related to like, what I'm doing in my life, you know, like, I don't need to know, like, you know, this President's birthday. While I'm trying to figure out my day, I'm free to hang out with a friend. So, so I was thinking like hanging up this wall calendar, and then just looking at it as a glance, but also like, I wish and I have like a dry erase board over here. It's like, it's like it's not it's you know, it's not super big. But I'm like, but what you said was really interesting to me because I'm like, like, also, I don't feel creative, just grabbing an iPad and being like, I got this like 12 inch screen and like, Ooh, I'm gonna change the world by like writing on this little thing. So you'll tape paper together. Could you tell me more about that? I know it sounds probably silly to you but to me Just I work with a lot of a4 size papers like a normal printing paper and just tape it up, join lots of them together so that it becomes like a huge canvas to work with. And then you just start. That's it. Yes, start write as many words, whatever you're thinking of, and then go on and on about it. Unlike the kitchen table or something like, yeah, or on the floor desk, or sometimes on the floor, wherever that piece of paper fits. So sometimes I would just go to like a place when there's absolutely nobody on make lots of space in my room, move things around sick and just focus. Yeah. Yeah, I love that. I love that. And then, and you'll do mind maps. So like, just start with like, a main idea. And then kind of just see where that splinters to. Right. Yeah. So just like think of as many words, objects, whatever's coming to your head to do that to do with that one set of problem that you're trying to solve for. And yeah, it's just become like a never ending process. You just keep going on and on and on. And then boom, like, you pick one point where you feel like something makes sense. That's cool. That's cool. And then you look back, you're like, Wow, I did all this. Like, that's, that's cool. So mind maps, and really letting yourself be free with the whole creative process is really key to getting more creative, I guess, is what it would be. Yeah. Yes, having somebody else's perspective on what you were thinking, really, really opens up? Because when you enter that conversation with absolutely no expectations, and then you look back, like I think my most amazing ideas have come from a conversation with somebody because somebody said something somewhere, it stuck with me, or it sparked something in me. And yeah, that's how like, the whole my creative journey has been. And so it could be a conversation with a friend, a co worker, it could be anybody, anybody, literally anybody. Yeah, I just pick Simon person where if something really relates with me, something that I resonate with, I just keep it is just like, it's, it's there. Right? It stays with me. And then I don't know, how will I use it next, but it shows up in some shape some form somewhere, and really helps. Yeah, that's, I love that. I love that idea. And, yeah, it's because it's kind of like elusive. The idea of creativity is like, is like, it's not because it's not like, you can buy it online, you know, and then it's, it's, you can only just buy the tools to help you become more of it. It feels very, you know, mysterious in a lot of ways. But it is also something that it's like, you can think of ways to be creative. But at the end of the day, from what I'm hearing you say is like it takes actually talking about it with somebody like whether the brainstorming part, or sitting down and actually just like writing it out. And you can't just like, think your way, only to being creative. Right? Can I add one more to this that? Yeah, please, now that we're having this conversation, it it made me realize that it's also about being mindful about just being present in where you are so busy the conversation with somebody or just sitting alone and doing nothing. Just being mindful about your current situation, things around you observing a lot of things, a lot of it comes from there. I think a lot of time because our mental bandwidth is so consumed with all of those things, it's really hard to be mindful about anything that you're doing right now, especially after the pandemic hitting and just work is like work life balance has been disrupted completely. I think it's really, really hard for people to be mindful. But at the same time, I feel like because people have gotten so much time to be at home and there was this, a lot of side hustles started coming up people so I am just moving away from the topic, but I was just so intrigued. No, no, I love this. Yeah, being mindful has really helped people because they did they thought about the kinds of things they would want to do in their free times. They were being mindful about those and then gave birth to so many side hustles that have started popping up. So yeah, I think being mindful is definitely one of the things Yeah, I read a book during like 2020 called Goodbye things. And it was a book on like minimalism. And basically he inspired me to like sell most of my stuff like I didn't have like, a ton of stuff, I didn't think but I ended up selling like 600 things on eBay. And like, I had to start like a second account because I was like, selling so much stuff. And I got rid of just so much like so much stuff like 70 shirts, like all these hats, like there's so much stuff and I still have like a good amount of stuff right now. But it just like really allowed me needed, how much stuff I had. And it was kind of partly because being mindful and partly like, let's just start like a little what like what, like fun side hustle, could I start kind of thing? And what like, really, I think it was more mindfulness. As far as really being distracted by all of this stuff around me. Just the sheer because I read a part in a book it was said something about, and I think it was in good buy things there might have been in different minimalis book I wrote a wrote, I read, but something about the imagine a line, like an energetic line between you and the items around you. And think about, you know, even if they're behind like a door, how much how many energetic lines you have going to these different objects. And it was like overwhelming, like, oh my god, it's just in my closet alone. It's got to be like, hundreds, you know, so it really like kind of got me thinking of like, oh, let me just let me just be mindful of that mindful of the things. And, and when I was doing that, it started opening up all these all this other room for other stuff to happen, you know, like, it's almost like it allowed me to be more mindful of what I'm creating, because I didn't have this noise going on. And so yeah, so I, I could see, like, I hadn't thought about that much before you said it. But I could see how mindfulness could really play into, you know, so much of what the creative process needs to really flourish. Because, yeah, it's, I mean, I don't know about you, but I've never felt like super creative scrolling through Instagram, after I scroll. I'm not like, Ah, now I'm ready to make something that's gonna change the world. You know, I might see some ideas. Oh, cool. You save that for later. And then I'll really go back to it. But for the most part, I'm like, I want to just now eat some food or do something else. Yeah, you know? Yeah. How do you manage your social media usage with with being creative? I think I make sure that I'm doing social media detox every now and then that's something very important to me. So I completely disconnect myself, go off the radar, where I informed my family and friends that I won't be available. So of course, when I'm completely off my gadgets, my television, my phone, everything that I know will distract me. And I just set or an probably read a book. Or maybe just draw something just doodle just doodle random. I just I have a strange habit that I start writing my name on paper, and I keep writing it like and I keep writing it writing and violent thinking, thinking, thinking, and then suddenly I have this. I get bombarded by these ideas in my head. And I'm like, Okay, now we know what what do I need to do next? So yeah, I just go and complete social media detox. But yeah, there have been days where I've been overwhelmed by the amount of information I was consuming, which is why I have very recently started doing this, that I make sure that I'm staying off Instagram, specially when you're trying to build a brand on Instagram. It's just becomes it feels it starts to feel more like a competition. And I'm not the sort of person who likes to be in the race. So I want to have my days off. I want to have my life beyond social media. I want people to know me beyond like, besides what I do, so it's just me. So I made sure that I limit the number of posts I'm posting, I limit the number of content that I'm posting, and I only offer value through whatever, whatever it is that I'm posting. And yeah, so that's what I'm trying to do sort of managing the social media game. Yeah, I love that. And I love how you said Concerta feel like a race because, like going on there, it's just you'll see, you'll see everything, you'll see someone where you're like, Oh, I'm making more valuable content and this person, which isn't good, healthy thought really, because what's the say that's not valuable to somebody else, but you know, what I'm seeing on someone else, this page, but also like it see the most well produced piece of content I posted the other day, I posted a video of me talking and it was just the same setup that you're seeing here. And like posted a little quiz in my stories, how much do you think this setup cost? US dollars? You know, how much do you think this setup and I put$1,000 3000 6000 $10,000 You know, and most people selected the $3,000 range, and it's more like the $6,000 plus range, which is I just, I put that on there because I'm like, the comparison is so real. I'm sure there's people out there that are like, mine doesn't look like that. Or I don't have this or like, you know, it's just so easy. And it's Yeah, but that's not the fault of you know, if you would have spent the money you know, and it's not that you need to spend the money it's just being aware you can't compare a phone video till some crazy camera setup. It's not. That's not a fair comparison. And it doesn't make that video that's shot With a camera more valuable than one shot with a phone, you know, so it's an it's else over the years of whatever the goal is to and it's it don't even really need all this fancy gear really, you could get by with, there's this person that posts I see on Instagram post writing on like index cards, and then just taking a picture of the index cards around the city. And it has 1000s and 1000s of likes. And, and not that that is, you know, any indication of value because it's really not but but it's also just it's like, the one thing I could say is, you know, it's it's an indication, though that the format itself, is people are still finding value in it, and it doesn't take some crazy camera, it's like a cell phone, take a picture of an index card that's like, you know, besides the phone cost that, you know, pennies for the, for the gear, you know, so Yeah, completely agree with you, because people are looking for something that they relate to, and something that that's aspirational to them. So something that they desire to be so they respond to that. So that's like an index card. And you know, if that's something that kind of makes them want to travel or anything that sort of you know, evokes that emotion. So anything that they relate to the sport that they don't really see the quality or high quality cameras that you're using, or what fancy gadgets are you using? What machines are you using? I don't think they really care about that. Yeah, yeah, they just care about Yeah, what then? And what's in it for me in a way, you know, how is this helping me on some level? Whether the conscious of it or not? Okay, well, last question for you. Is there anything? I didn't ask you? There's a couple questions in this. So anything I didn't ask you, that you would like someone to know about creativity? there anything else that you want? You want? You want the people to know, you want the listener to know who's like, I really like what you're saying, but I don't know. And maybe you've already said it? I'm not? I don't know, I'm not trying to force words or anything. Why don't you ask that question? Because I'm thinking about it. Actually, I there is a lot that I will want to say. And I'm having like a hard time to sort of filter it out. But yeah. So one thing that I think I truly believe in that, you know, during our emails, you sent me a question. And you said that, where do you find inspiration from or what inspires you? And I thought a lot about that? Because that's such a, you know, everybody sort of? It's a very common question to ask. And then I don't think I've given a lot of thought. So last one week, I've been sort of reflecting upon it. And I was trying to figure that, what is it that inspires me, and it's definitely not a place like, I don't think like a city or a place inspires me, it's definitely not like a cup of coffee that sort of gives me that inspiration. So I've been thinking about it. And I think a lot of my inspiration comes from my experiences. And my conversations, I think my conversations with people, a lot of my inspiration also comes from big open spaces. So maybe like open skies, where I just helped me think freely, whether I'm unable to think when there's a lot of clutter around me. So I want everything to be really spaced out. Even when people are sitting with me, I want them to sit at a certain distance, because it just doesn't help me think clearly. And, yeah, that's something that I would want to tell people that inspiration doesn't always have to come from, you know, like really fancy objects or something, then sort of people think looks good or feels good inspiration can a lot of times comes from a conversation or maybe like an experience you've had in the past, like the whole journey of creativity. And why I'm trying to do this is because when I was growing up, nobody, I did not have a mentor or anybody to tell me that if I'm being creative or not, what are the right tools? What was the right kind of exposure? What do I need to do? So that sort of inspired me to do this? And like a lot of conversations I've had with people that kind of spark this idea. So yeah, I think inspiration can a lot of times come from within yourself. You don't need to look up to somebody like you don't need to always have an external source of inspiration. You don't always need to have a hero or a person or a celebrity or somebody you need to. I don't know, like your cliches what you think inspires you may not be true. Yeah, yeah. That's fascinating. I feel like now you said that. You had thought of that? Because I had asked you that knew about it for like a week. Now. I'm going to be thinking about that for a while. I'm already thinking like, How can I create more open space to leave room for ideas to be able to make themselves welcome. You know how like that could be something completely different. Maybe I just think that this is something so subjective and so personal that for somebody, it could be something completely different. Maybe just Yeah, you totally have music playing 24/7. And that's when they think, when there's like a lot of noise. And I don't know, how do they do that? But yeah, like, yeah. Yeah, I yeah, I found like, with the music too, like I sometimes do really well when it's on. And then sometimes I'm like, this is blocked, like, this is making it so hard. Like, especially if I'm trying to write words. And then the person in the music is saying words, I'm thinking more about their words, and the words I'm trying to write now, this isn't working at all. But other times it seems to work. So it doesn't seem you know, it's always one way or the other, kind of, for me requires really being aware of how I'm feeling in that moment and what I need. But I like I like the I think there is always room for everybody, regardless of what they do is to leave more room and open space for that certain ideas, you know? And if they're like, Nah, that's not for me. Well, did you try it? You know, maybe just try and get experimenting with it. See what happens. Because the experimentation process feels hard, have that creativity process and a lot of ways. Well, awesome. Thank you so much picture. This is in so, so nice. And I feel inspired and more creative. And I'm thinking, Okay, what do I have this morning on? As far as commitments going? Because I want to mix on a piece of paper together and makes a mind map, I just let my mind be free? Because it's almost It's almost scary to think what would be possible if if it did that. I could create anything. That's true, I completely believe. How awesome was that? How awesome was a picture, right? So I'm super glad. Thank you again, and thanks for coming on digital podcaster. And I'll include in the show notes, any links to a picture so you can check her out more. She posts really cool stuff on Instagram. But she practices what she preaches, which is so cool. So there'll be waves I notice on her Instagram, at least where she's away. She's away from social media. And it's like, she sets that healthy boundary for her that not, you know, maybe social media isn't in her best interest. So she'll go through waves where she's active and not active. But regardless, you got to check out her page, because it's super, super cool stuff she's posting. And it just I don't know, it's, it's fun. Being around people and conversating or listening to people that are like, inspiring in one way or another. And just having conversations about creativity is inspiring, I find inspiring. So I hope you found that inspiring too. Funny thing about the episode with her I have to say is I don't like do a lot of research before I reach out to guests. Like I'm not like, oh, what time zone are you in? I just go based purely on the conversation, like if it's a conversation I would want to have, and then record and then share with you. So it's it's kind of funny, because like I reached out to a picture and I'm like, just like, Yeah, let's I would love to do a podcast with you. Like, please say yes, crossing my fingers. And she said, yeah, and then I sent the thing. And we're like, going back and forth on time time zones. I believe. She's in India. And so I didn't, you know, do too much times on math, but we figured it out. And it was like 7am for me. And when we recorded that I wasn't like waking up that early. So it was really early for me and I shaved before the episode and my face would not stop bleeding at first. Like when I got on the video, I didn't even notice it. This is sorry, this shouldn't be that graphic. So it wasn't like that bad. But it was definitely noticeable on the screen. Like it was just leaking. And so I go like I didn't look at my face too. Well, before I turn on the video camera. You know, I wasn't like double checking in the mirror and I hopped on the video call and then like tired just because I had like woken up not that long ago. And I hopped on the video call with her and I'm like just bleeding and we're just like, oh my gosh, I'll be right back a picture. She's, she's just like, oh yeah, take your time. Like I'm just like, I'm so sorry. This is embarrassing. And and then it like wouldn't stop just bleeding. And if you see any clips or the video from this, if you see something on my chin, that's what it was from like my cut myself shaving and it just would not go away. So if you know any tips about that, I would love to know Him in case that happens again, because I was just, you know, standby with the tissue if I noticed that while I'm talking. I'm just like, dabbing my chin. It probably just needed time to heal up real quick. And I just it didn't I didn't have time on my side. So yeah, that was pretty funny. I just had to share. So thank you again for listening. heads up on what's going on with digital podcaster. We'll have more episodes coming out. I got a lot of fun stuff in store for you. We have what we have coming up. We have conversations around video content around content itself and Around psychological stuff, I'm gonna leave it at that a little vague. But, um, there's a holistic view here, when it comes to digital podcaster. It's not just of course about marketing, but it's also about like your own mind. And so different approaches to it. But basically what I'm doing, and if you haven't guessed it, by now is reaching out to people that I want to have conversations with that I think would make for entertaining conversations that I'd want to share with you. And you'd find good to listen to, like you find value of listening to. So I'm not looking for, you know, just regular old conversations, email marketing, like these just bland things like, I would not be, I wouldn't object to talking about email marketing at all, I would love to talk about it, but only if it was in the context with someone that like, I'm like, vibing with on a conversation level, I just find that that's where it flows best for both of us, you know. And so this, this podcast will go in many different directions. As far as like the mind, marketing, sales, creativity. So yeah, all different aspects of it. I just, I don't like sticking to just one thing when it comes to it. And in a way I am sticking to one thing, because it's one thing is everything right, I'm sticking to the whole whole thing. So that's what's coming up with digital podcasts here. I did just create a couple of things I want you to know, and I gotta let you know about him right now. So first up, is it's called podcast Pro. I just launched it last week. And it is really cool. So podcast Pro is an on demand podcast editing service. So if you're familiar out there with like services, like design pickle, or there's another one called content, cucumber, I don't know where they get these names. But it's basically like their on demand services, where if you need a graphic designer or a content writer, you can reach out to these companies. And basically, you just pay like one monthly fee. And then you get everything you need. You just basically any design jobs, you need any content writing jobs you need. But I noticed there wasn't any for podcasting. So and what do I see most people get hung up on podcasting is the editing part. Because it is intensive, I get it. And that's what I have a lot of experience in because my background is originally in audio engineering. That's what I've been doing since middle school. I'm 32. Now. So I've been doing it for like, I don't even want to do the math, but maybe like 17 years, is like audio and then started doing just school for it. And then started doing it professionally, and then got into marketing in 2010. And then got it yeah, that's my story, whatever. So I have a lot of experience editing, and I enjoy it. And so what I did was I didn't see any on demand podcast editing service. So I created podcast Pro, and podcast Pro will, we will edit your podcast. And if you publish, you know, once a week, cool every other week, cool, whatever it is, we edit it, it's on demand, like the services I mentioned, where you just give it the tasks you need, and then we take care of it. So it's like that for your podcast, and just launched. And what we're doing right now for recalling founding members is we are including social media video clips. So we'll create video clips from your podcast, some of the best parts. And we'll include those for we're doing for social media video clips for you a month. And then there's different plans, there's like the essential plan, which is up to three hours of editing per month. And then the I figure we're calling the other plan, but it's up to six hours per month for the other plan. And, and then if you want something more specific, you can always reach out to hello at Digital podcaster.com. But it's pretty cool. So we do the episode artwork, the audio editing and the transcriptions of your show. And basically, we package it all up. And what we do on first how it works is first we'll hop on an onboarding call, typically lasts between 60 and 90 minutes. And then we'll set up a template for your show. So that you record you deliver us the audio, upload it to Google Drive or Dropbox. And then we'll edit it and we'll make everything pretty nice and shiny for you deliver it back to you. And then you can just publish it from there. Or if you want us to publish it, we can do that, too. So it really takes the work out of having to to the podcast, because all you got to do is record recording is the easy part. Honestly, because yeah, gear makes it easy. So all you got to do is record, export it and then upload it to a folder. And then we take care of everything from there. And what's cool is because I mean a lot of people that are like, you know, I just I don't I get hung up on the editing, so then they just don't do it or they're like, I don't know, like they see it as so abstract with podcasting. Like I don't know where to I don't know what to do with it. Like I don't know what to do with my podcast, because because they're like I recorded it, but I don't really know if it's right or wrong or this. This helps kind of get out of your head and just get it published. Because when you have someone else helping you with that whole thing, you're more likely to do it. You have accountability. And then you have consistency. Because now it's not just you doing all the steps, because there's a lot of steps to this. I understand that. So yeah, so I made that because there was a need for it. And if you're interested in that, just go to digital podcaster.com. It's called podcast Pro. And all the info is there. So, yeah, I just want to thank you again for listening for your attention. If you liked any particular part of this episode, please email hello at Digital podcaster.com. And there'll be more links in the show notes but really grateful you're here and I'll talk to you soon. Bye.