Welcome to Digital Podcaster Podcast. My name is Dylan Schmidt. And I'm super excited today to share my fun conversation with public speaking coach Ron Cahoon. rongkhun lives in Hawaii. And he is just awesome, awesome guy. I met him on Instagram, and we connected and his sense of humor. I feel like just meshes so well with mine. It's so you'll hear a lot of laughing in this podcast. And, you know, public speaking is one of those things that could be bland, right? I know, for myself, at least, when I think of public speaking, I think of, I don't know, I just think of like steel, I think of corporate, I think of lack of personality, I think of just kind of watching a presentation, I think of PowerPoint. I think of not very creative, I think of just boring font. On the slides. I don't know, it just doesn't really like spark creativity when I think of presentations, things like that. And what I find fascinating about Ron is that he takes a subject like public speaking or presenting, but he delivers it, the content in this fun way that it's just easy to enjoy. It's easy to get excited about and he injects his humor and personality into what he does. And you'll find that really easily. And there's a formula behind what he does to which I didn't know really going into the conversation, which I was really excited to learn about during the conversation. So please enjoy my conversation with Ron Goodman. I'm seeing that right. Right. Good. That's right. Yeah. And you're in Honolulu. Yes. Beautiful. And just so all of us who are indoors right now, and I know you're indoors right now. Probably. How's it in Honolulu right now? What's, what's the weather like today? Can we get a check in? Well, I'm looking at it out the window at the beach and I see that it is overcast at the moment. Hmm. That's nice. Okay, well, can you see you see the beach from your window? Yeah, it's right there. That is just, let's just all imagine imagine we're with Ron right now in Honolulu. Looking at the beach. It's overcast. But after this episode, we can go dip our toes in the water and maybe go down a waterslide because I've seen you posts going down a waterslide on your Instagram. I live about a mile from Waikiki Beach and the beach across the street from my house is Ala Moana Beach Park. So people who are familiar with Honolulu who have been here before will know where it is. Oh, beautiful. I hope I get to come one day and visit you there. But I gotta try something new you live from Ala Moana Beach Park. I was just telling Ron before we went into this episode that I've said that not recorded with every guest I've interviewed on Digital Podcaster I've like changed personas just to see how they react because I have a sense of humor that like, I don't always check with people before I don't know it's you don't have much time. And I was like, I'm not gonna say it before this episode with RON and RON didn't know I used to say that. And Ron said it and I and I didn't say it. And so Ron's kept the streak going of me switching personas of Alright, now we've got an radio show. Announcer So Ron, Ron is a How would you describe yourself, Ron, I just I am a presentation coach. I help business professionals who struggle with presentation fear, speak with confidence, competence and clarity so that they can achieve positive presentation results. I did that for many years in South Korea. I worked with the Seoul tourism organization to help them win international conferences to be hosted in the city. I helped them win 36 international conferences, we attracted 100,000 people and generated millions and millions of dollars for the city. And you can so you can win awards with presentations. What do you mean? Did you say if I understood correctly? Did we did you say something about winning awards with presentation? Okay, let me share with you specifically what I did for a sole tourism organization. So let's say that a professional association, like the Korean Medical Association wants to host an international conference in the city, then they have to compete against other cities and other countries. For example, there may be the American Medical Association, French Medical Association, Indonesian Medical Association, and they all want they all belong to the International Society of medical organizations and every two or three years, organizations like that have international conferences and then the reason why they would want to host a conference in their city is because it would attract 1000s of professionals to come and then they contribute a lot of money to the local economy. Yeah. So the way we win is initially there's a region bid It says, Hey, we would like to host this conference in Korea. And then other countries submit their bid as well. And then they narrow it down to say, three to five different countries that can give a presentation bid. My job was to coach the professional associations in Korea to give presentation bids against other countries, and then the best presentation wins the conference. Wow. So that's one thing that I did. So it's probably, obviously vitally important to have a solid presentation to to win the bid. Right? That's why That's all right. So I haven't told you this. But part of the reason and it's not like some like big, I haven't told you this, but Ron, I'm pregnant now. And with so but Weiss, like specifically I, I am super drawn to what you do is obviously the public speaking aspect of it, and presentations is a big part of public speaking, knowing what to say how to say it all that stuff. I am, I've been behind the scenes for years helping entrepreneurs. And last June, I started Digital Podcaster. And then I had in front of the camera more. And I kind of just kind of winging it as I go, but I don't have you know, I haven't done like Toastmasters. I haven't done any formal public training, I just share how I share and before we recorded, you know, like you asked how I would like kind of rate myself and pretty low. I don't have I'm just winging it wrong. I think I'm just winging it. I don't really know what everybody is. Is that the secret? Everyone's winging it. Everybody's winging it. I like I have questions I would love to ask you. And normally, you know what, I'll have experts on that maybe I have a familiarity with what they are a professional in. And I can kind of be like, Oh, I'm asking this. I know maybe some of the answers. But when it comes to public speaking, like, it's people are so afraid of public speaking, of course, and presenting and feeling confident and all that stuff. It's a huge hang up for people. And I have more questions than I could possibly ask you in just this episode. But just to start out how you prepare a presentation, for an audience you've never met? Well, you can dictate, it all depends. But if you're going to prepare a presentation for an audience, you'd never meant, of course, you need to gather information about them. The ideal place to start is with the organizer, or the person who invited you to give the talk, you can ask them questions about the audience. Who are they? How many are they? And get all the details? So for example, you need to know what are their interests? Why are they interested in a talk from you? What's their current understanding of the topic? What are their beliefs surrounding the topic? What do you think they will agree and disagree with? And what will it be that motivates them to take action based on what you speak on? Wow, for example, I'm going to give a talk on Thursday at a Toastmasters club to a group of people that I've never met before. And when I said initially, the situation dictates so in this case, it's a small group, 26 people, I've met a few of them, but I don't know the rest of them. The person who invited me to come speak, she sent me a list of names of all the people that are going to come. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to jump on Facebook, and I'm going to look at who all the people are. Why would I do that? Not because I'm a psycho? Because it'll make me feel more comfortable. It'll give me an understanding of Oh, yeah, okay, I can I know who they are. It's not new to me. In other cases, you you ask the organizer, or you can research on the internet, about the company, about the culture and things like that. If you have any other question, related to that, a lot, but but as far as that, so when you're in the preparation stage of it, you really just got to do your homework. It's not there is there's not really winning to feeling comfortable before you get on stage. I guess it's the homework that makes you feel more comfortable before you get on stage. Well, one of the reasons why people are fearful is because they're uncertain. They don't know what's going to happen there. And then, to prepare, one of the main things that we need to do is to eliminate as much uncertainty as possible. So for example, we need to understand our audience. We need to understand our content, our message, we need to understand the venue. We need to understand as many in as many variables as we can that make people feel nervous, eliminate the uncertainty and then you'll be more certain. It's pretty straightforward and simple, and we can all do it. Yeah, yeah. And I believe that and I think it's, it seems like a vague road to get there. How long have you been in the public speaking? Yeah. In my case, the way I started to do this was I. Okay, let's start back at the beginning. I was born September 30 1969. in Palo Alto, California. I graduated from high school, he took a high school in Lodi, California in 1988. I joined the army, I was in the army from 1990 to 1994. I got out I studied at San Jose State University, I got a degree in marketing. After I got my degree in marketing, I worked for a semiconductor manufacturer in Silicon Valley during product marketing, I was there for two and a half years. And then in 2001 the.com, bubble burst, and my company laid off 1000 people, including me, and 999 of them were really sad. But in my case, I was really happy because I didn't really fit there. I felt like a cog in the machine. I wasn't really making a contribution. But I did like getting paid. And I needed a little push. So when I got laid off, I was happy. But at the same time, I didn't feel like going to work at any other company because I felt that corporate America is just a cog in the machine. And then I had served in when I served in the army, I spent time in Korea, I decided to go to Korea for adventure, I got a contract a six month contract in a city called kung fu to teach English to kids. And I was gonna go there just for six months, and then come back and get a quote unquote, real job. And then then I stayed there for 19 years, 19 years, yeah. And after, after I worked there for six months, then I start to work for a university, teaching English. And then I worked for another university. And then I got a master's degree in global logistics management from a Korean university and I started to teach management in Korea. And once upon a time or one day, I got an invitation to coach for Seoul tourism organization to help when a presentation bid like I, we talked about earlier. And then we want to logistics conference. And from that time, when I won the logistics conference, I decided, hey, I'm going to start my own business in Korea. And I'm going to provide leadership and communication skills training to different organizations. So that's what I did. I started to do leadership and communication skills training. And then I really fell in love with the presentation part. I was a Toastmaster in Korea. And initially when I started, I was full of fear. I was terrified of speaking but the encouragement that I received from the greatest club in the world South River, Toastmasters club in Kingdom, really transformed my life. And then I was able to, I was able to help win a lot of conference because I developed my own tools in a way of thinking about presentation. And I came up with the presentation superhero method, also known as the positive presentation method. Because the Well let me ask you a question. What's the most important thing about any presentation? I was gonna ask you that. But I don't know. I don't know, let's see, most important thing about a presentation would be making sure that your audience understands what you're saying. Okay, understanding is vitally important. If they if they understand you have the possibility to when many people if you ask them, what's the most important thing about presentation? They'll give different answers, like a confidence message, all those things are important, but the most important thing is to achieve positive results. And so if we, if we know that from the start, whatever presentation we're going into, it's like, what's the purpose? What is the result we're after? And then the next question is, how do we achieve that result? And there are three things that we need to achieve a positive result, you need to positive presenter plus positive content plus positive delivery equals positive results. So when I go into a coaching situation, and I meet with somebody, I'm looking at, hey, are they a positive presenter? Is their content positive? Do they have positive delivery, and generally the default with most of us is negative, we got negative presenter. They're so fearful, got negative content, it's boring, confusing, got negative delivery, it's also boring and confusing. And then it leads to a negative result. That's why most presentations are awful, is because negative presenter negative content negative delivery equals negative result. So it's really simple for us to transform ourselves. We have to take a look and see okay, how do I become a positive presenter? Positive presenters are people who experience positive emotions when they speak. Positive content makes life better. Positive delivery is engaging, exciting and entertaining. Presentation is not rocket science and then All we have to do is if we want to evaluate any presentation, we just look and see, okay, we have positive presenter or negative presenter. We have positive content or negative content, we have positive delivery, or negative delivery. And then we just make adjustments to make things better. And when you say positive, like my brain goes optimistic, is that the same thing? Is that interchangeable? Well, here's the the, the main thing is that when people have low level presentation skills, and generally they feel nervous and fearful, so that's negative emotion, they're experiencing negative emotion, because they can't control their own thinking, they're self centered, they're thinking about themselves, I'm going to make a mistake, people are gonna laugh at me. And they're uncomfortable because they have to get in front of a group of people and speak to them. And so all of their their negative thinking makes them perform poorly. So we need to transform, we actually what we really need to do is we need to gain control of our thinking, why are people nervous because they they're not in control of their thoughts. If you can control your thoughts, positive thoughts, create positive emotions, positive actions, positive results. But what we have is we have negative thoughts create negative emotions, negative actions, negative results. So when we talk about positive versus negative presenters, negative presenters are nervous and fearful nervousness and fearful is the starting point for failure. So we really need to learn how to transform from being nervous to being confident to believe in ourselves. And then one way to do that is to share a message that you believe in, for example, the only reason why we should ever speak to an audience is because we want to help them. And we help them with our message. So that's the positive content. Whenever we speak, it's, it's all about how can I help make their life better? That's the only reason why we're going to speak to anybody. If we can't make their lives better, then what's the point of speaking, it doesn't make any sense. But when you put together a message that you truly believe in, it's a virtuous circle between the presenter and the content, you can feel good, you stop thinking about yourself, you focus all of your effort on how can I make their life better, and then you're not even thinking about you. And you're transformed from being fearful to joyful. And when you're joyful, people are more receptive to you and your ideas. So that's the real big difference between a positive presenter and a negative presenter is the emotions that you feel, does that mean? You you can feel negative emotion sometimes when you present if they are genuine, and empathetic or people who have empathy for you. But if you are just self centered and fearful, then no, that's fascinating. It makes a lot of sense. And it makes sense. I'm just making this about me for just a second, like, because, because I got no one else to analyze. While we're talking. That makes sense. Because like, naturally, I'm a positive person, like I see. I'm very optimistic and very positive in my life. And when I share, it comes out because I'm not going to be like, negative Nancy over here, you know, shout out to my friend Nancy. She's actually really positive but really nice. But I'm, you're just a positive person. And that comes out through that, which makes sense why people resonate, I guess, unknowingly. I'm like doing that, I guess, in some ways, what do you think? Are there like, is so so positive, thinking positive? Like, kind of the hang up I have, I guess, with presenting, and I and I got so many questions. I'm like trying to form it in my head. One. Okay. First, I got to get out. Let's just click this off the brain for Toastmasters. For those who don't know, do you mind just sharing just a real quick little bit about what Toastmasters is? Yes. Toastmasters is a leadership and communication skills building club, that meetings all over the world. And you can find a meeting, most likely you can find a meeting in your area or more by visiting toastmasters.org. The people in Toastmasters will help you encourage you provide a safe learning environment where you can go to a meeting, you can participate, you can give speeches and evaluate be evaluated. And as I mentioned before, I was a member of South River Toastmasters Club, they really changed my life. And the way it happened was when I went there, and I started speaking, I didn't have any belief in myself. I was nervous and afraid. I didn't even want to stand up and introduce myself to people because I was fearful. And then I gave my first speech and people wrote down some evaluation note to me, so maybe I got 15 to 20 little notes that said, you're awesome. You're amazing. And then because other people believed in me, then I started to believe in myself. And I think it's really important to get into an environment like that because if we are alone and isolated, it's hard for us to develop. But if people tell you, you're awesome, you're like, really? I am. And then you start to believe it be like, Yeah, I can do it. Yeah, that's the kind of environment. So one of the very best ways that you can develop your speaking skills is to join a Toastmasters Club, and then meeting virtually these days. Yeah, most clubs around the world are meeting virtually some are starting to get back to have in person meetings, but because of the situation where they this thing. This thing going on what's going on? I didn't even maybe I missed it. I got it. Self inject. The Home Kit? Yeah. Anyhow. Yeah, it's a it's a great organization. And I was involved with it in Korea for many years. And it's really awesome. Thank you love it. You come from all over the world. Yeah, because it is virtual. Yes. You can join clubs in virtually any country that has Toastmasters club meetings. Yes. So if if you're afraid to join, join some way that's not in your hometown. So if this switched in person, then you never have to see the people in person. That's that's not a great strategy. Maybe so. So what So? Like talking one to one, or even with a small group of people, it's there's certain cues you can pull from the reaction, right? If I'm, I'm speaking with you on Zoom, but I can you you give me like real time feedback. As far as you're understanding what I'm saying and all that. I've always found it hard when presenting, whether it's even just recorded video, either live or recorded video just in general, like public would. Okay, let me ask you this, would you consider like, public speaking to be like, if you recorded a video for for Instagram or YouTube or something like that? Would that be considered public speaking? That's a good question. Let me think for a moment. To me, public speaking is anytime you're in public, and you say something, and somebody else hears it, I would consider, I would consider this public speaking. Because even though we're not together, I'm speaking to you. So short answer, yes. Speaking on video is public speaking. And like, when you're in a room of people, you have that feedback, yet, even even sometimes, like I've spoken in front of somewhat large crowds, I think. And it's hard for me to even with a crowd of multiple people, when they're just like, staring at you to know if it's coming across, you know, it's not like they're like, they can't hit the like, like button and they can't, you know, like they're not commenting because you're watching their faces. And you're like, how do you know if what you're saying is getting across to them? How do you know if like, you're actually being effective as a speaker, you're talking about a real audience, a real audience, but because it's kind of similar in a way to a virtual audience in a way where they're just kind of staring at you. Okay, go on, you know, it's not like, you can stop and be like, can you give me feedback on this as you're talking? Well, if you're speaking to a real audience, and you feel as if everybody's just staring at you, most likely, you're pretty boring. Really? Yeah, most likely, right? I kind of now I have some confession to make to about video. I do not like video, I don't like it's been a real struggle. For me. I really love to be with an audience. Because you do get immediate feedback. You do know what's happening with people. And then when you're just talking with a camera, it's very uncomfortable. We have very low level skills when it comes to communicating with the camera, because we don't do it frequently. And many people they never start. As you know, I'm pretty much a newbie to to Instagram. I'm learning it at the moment. And I didn't want to get on camera. But now I'm getting on camera every single day. I'm starting to believe in myself more that oh, yeah, you can make videos. Oh, yeah, you can do this. And then my skill is improving. So the thing with the video or in person, as your skill skill goes up, then fear goes down. But when we have low level skills, then we have high level fear. So the key to get rid of our fear is to develop higher level skills. Yes, that that makes sense in my brain that makes sense to my brain. And so it's through the repetition that you start to get that it's kind of like you know, you're doing a good job when you get that like, the more you do it, the more I guess That's that's just the more you do it, like, You're not always going to get the feedback maybe that you want, especially in the moment, but getting over that fear of is it good enough. That is how you get better at what you're doing. And the other thing is that when it comes to video for me, if I make something, and I like it, and that's good enough, then I have an audience of one that liked it. And all the other billions of people on the planet, if they don't like it, that's okay, too. Because I like it. This is my stuff. This is my thing. When I post a video on Instagram, I like it. If other people of course I like it when other people like it, I want other people to like it. But if they don't, you know, my happiness is not tied to whether they like it or not. Yeah, like, at the end of the day, it's not gonna make you start or stop something you're doing based on that engagement. Yeah, and it's, it's interesting you say that too, because it really you don't need Yeah, yourself like it. But if one other person likes it, that's a quite a bit of feedback to know that you're at least saying something that's being received by the world. You know, that's huge. I want people to like my stuff. So if you're watching this, and you take a look at my stuff, like like, cuz I need it. Yeah, and your stuff is easy to like, because it's highly engaging. And it's clear, though, it's very clear, you, you, you, you, but that's what I think draws me to what you do so well is because you convey yourself in a way that's clear. And a lot of people don't do that. It's, there's there's a lot of like, stuff wrapped up in it. And then I'm just like, just get to the point, you know, get to the point of what you're trying to convey. And you convey your points. So clearly right across the board. And on something like social media that makes it really easy to undersell. If anybody wants advice about doing video or is afraid to get on camera, just just do it. You don't have to be perfect. What you're going to struggle with is, Do I Do I look okay? Like I'm old, I got wrinkles. This is me. My my inner critic is Oh, you're old you're not I say all kinds of negative things to myself. But actually, it isn't how you look, that's the most important thing. So we want to show people our face. But if you Oh, here's the actual expression is that if you show people your heart, you don't have to worry about your face. So just get out there. Share your heart with people, and then they're going to love what you do. Yeah, yeah, that that is helpful. Yeah, that is a there's a mic drop. So that is has incredible. Just just I'm like, we get that tattooed on me. Why would you say it? So you've maybe already addressed this really, but like, one of the things I wanted to ask you is why is public speaking so scary? In your opinion, I'd say there are really three things that number one is people don't believe in themselves. So no self belief. And then the second one is no skills. People just know. Yeah, people are not skilled at presenting and then they don't. Presentation is not important for most people, until the day before they need to give an important presentation. So the first thing was that no self belief, then no skills. And then the third one is no preparation, or low preparation. So the this is why it's scary. It's because people don't believe in themselves, they're nervous, then they don't develop their skills until it's too late. It's like they put it off, put it off, put it off if you want to. If you want to win a gold medal in the Olympics for a skating you don't throw your ice skates on like the day before. So what I would strongly encourage people to do is develop your skills before you need them. And the way we develop our skills is little by little by getting in front of an audience, doing some things right, making some mistakes, and then improving. So it's kind of like the the loop is. Most people don't develop those skills because they don't think it's important then also they're fearful so they avoid it. So fear leads to inaction. Inaction leads to inexperienced, inexperienced leads to inability, and then you're stuck with fear. I've seen many people who have had huge opportunities to present. For example, one of my, one of my one of my friends was working for LG Electronics and had the opportunity to speak to a good presentation in front of this CEO and she bombed, she just did a terrible job because she didn't develop her skills before the opportunity came. And what would that have looked like prepping ahead of time like giving talks maybe on a smaller, low stress type of stage, that kind of thing. You're like, it's important to develop your as I mentioned before, it's important to develop your skills before you need them. You're not going to develop them overnight. It's not just going to happen. You the vast majority are the average presenter is awful. Average presenters awful like we're, we're all awful, everybody sucks for the most part. So it just takes time. They're awful because they're boring. And they're boring because they're awful. And, but if do you think also, but like part of it has to do with belief too? Because like you said, because if they are really passionate about something they're talking about, that makes the presentation better, right? Yes. I coached many, many doctors in in Korea, and most doctors, they're good at their profession, but they're not good at giving a persuasive presentation. But if they have desire, commitment and belief, then in a short time, we can transform them, because they're they're highly motivated to win a specific or presentation bid. So they have an objective in their mind. If they have desire, then they want to win. So I like to ask them, Do you want to win this bid? Yes. Do Are you willing to work hard? Yes. Are we going to win? Yes. So the first question is the desire or do you want to win? If you want to win? And in your mind? It's Yes. And then commitment, you're willing to work hard? And then belief? Are we going to win? Yes, yes, yes. We have Yes. In our own brain first. We want to we want to believe in our own mind. Yes, yes, yes. And then we transfer our yes to the mind of our audience. So when we're trying to persuade other people, so we believe first, we believe our message, we believe that, hey, if you come here to Korea, this is going to be the best thing for you. And as to it's a win win. So we're going to give you what you want. And then you give us what we want, is huge. And I'm thinking to about the entrepreneur out there that maybe is creating an online course, or a live presentation that they're going to give to their audience. It really starts and correct me or add if here, but like having the belief of the transformation that you want to give your audience if you are teaching them something, it's really about starting out with the desire of what they're going to become focusing on the result is that correct? I like that you said, if you're going to teach somebody something, if you have an online course that you're going to sell to people, the purpose of that course is to make their life better, right, every course that you, you prepare for a group of people, it's to make their life better. And then if you if you I have something that a tool that I used in my coaching, so we talked about the positive presentation method, which is positive presenter positive content, positive delivery equals positive results. Another thing I developed is called the five steps to connect and win. So if you want to connect with your audience, the first step is they have to be interested, what are people interested in, they're interested in improvement. So step one is interest. The second one is understanding, they have to understand we have to so if we're interested in our topic, if we understand our topic, those are the first two. The third one is belief, interest, understanding belief. And then the fourth one is agreement. The fifth one is action. So five steps to connect and when if we can lead our audience through all five steps, we can when we can achieve our objectives. But usually presentations, persuasive presentations, in particular break down in one of those steps. So let's say that they're interested, they understand but they don't believe, then you lose. So anywhere along the way, in the five steps, if you're trying to persuade them, if there's a break in the connection, you lose. So to me to connect with your audience, there are five steps, I'll go over one more time, interest, understanding, belief, agreement, and then action. And those would go those are in specific order. So they go from one thing to the next. Yet, it's on the one hand, it's linear. We've we think of it in a linear way so that we can evaluate what we're creating. And then also that happens simultaneously. So for example, they they're interested to understand and believe at the same time, and then we're creating agreement from beginning to end. From the beginning of the time, when we start speaking until we finish, we want to create agreement on every point. So we have to predict in advance. If I say or show this, are they going to agree? Are they going to reject it? Are they going to agree or reject? So that's why it's vitally important to use these five steps to see where there's a breaking and a connection. But when we start to eliminate all the things that we may be doing wrong, or that we are, we might do wrong, if we don't fix it, then we can win. That's why the five steps to connect and win is very, very important. And, and it's, it's easy, like my brain would want to go, always three steps ahead. So if I'm getting their agreement, and they're like, Well, maybe their objections start popping up as well. But what about this? Did you think about this? If I'm teaching someone something, let's just say how to podcasts and they're like, Well, I don't have enough time. Are these objections start popping up? Do you think about those ahead of time what their objections are? And include that into the agreement? portion? Yes, we yeah, we want to eliminate, we want to eliminate anything that they're going to say no to, if we can predict or any, anything that creates. So if we expand our expand our definition of agreement, disagreement, we can think of, if they disagree, then they reject us. So things that can cause rejection are, is it boring? Is it confusing? So step one is interest, the opposite of interest is boredom. And the opposite of understanding is confusion. So with the positive presentation method, we are eliminating negativity, boredom, confusion, disagreement, disbelief. And then, if we when when we are creating the content in the content creation process, we just predict in advance, hey, if we show them this slide, is this a positive or a negative stimulus? Is this positive? How can we make it more positive? So if we start with our audience being like here, and then they take off on this positive emotional rocket launch? And the by the time you get to the end, then everybody's Yeah, yeah. Anyhow, do you think especially for like doctors or something, maybe they have to show do you avoid any negative stimuli on the slides? But here's the thing is, what do people prefer? Do people prefer positive or negative, positive, people prefer. But so this is kind of a nuanced thing, because sometimes we can say something negative. If some, if we say something that creates a positive result, then that negative thing is actually positive. So an example would be like, Oh, if you just talk about how awesome you are, and how many great things that you've done, you say a lot of positive things about yourself. But it can lead to a negative result, because people they feel negative about you. But if you share your struggle, which is, you know, on the surface appears to be a negative actually leads to a positive result. So that's why we have to be careful about, you know, what we consider positive or negative stimuli. So if it leads to positive result, it's positive, if it leads to, you know, if it appears to be positive, but it leads to negative than negative, make sense? And I don't know if I said that clearly enough, though, that makes sense, though, because it's, it's kind of like you could think you're conveying yourself in a positive way. But your audience might maybe feel worse about themselves in a negative way to generally speaking, right? If you were this maybe sharing your story or something, and it's quite say embellish, but very so unreal, where it's, you're the only person in the world that could identify with this thing. People might feel maybe negative about themselves. If it's not, if I don't know if it's maybe far fetched or something, if that makes sense. Well, it makes sense, the thing is, is that we have to recognize it, everything we say, Show and do is a stimulus that's going to make our audience either feel positive or negative. And people prefer to feel positive. If we can make them feel great about our ideas, then we can win. If they feel any kind of uncertainty, boredom, confusion, those kinds of things lead to us being rejected. We don't want to be rejected. So my position is, the more positive we can make it the better. And some simple examples of this might be, let's say that you give a talk in your your, you're giving a talk in Korea, and you have a slide deck. And then in that slide deck is a bunch of photographs of people who are not Korean. If you change all the photos to Korean people, then it's going to be more positive for them because they feel connected to it. And then if you take that presentation that you gave in Korea, and then you go to Uganda or South Africa or something like that, you should change the photos too, so that you can make a stronger connection with the people that you're speaking with. So showing that might be a point For people to reject, they see it. They're like, that's not me, that doesn't represent like who I am or our country. So then if we, if we share things with people that we know, stimulate them in a positive way that serve them, then it's more likely that we can win. Another thing would be sometimes we inadvertently with our phraseology, or our questions, we start building up No, in the in the audience's mind, a simple example would be, let's say you ask a group of 60 people, have you ever been to Hawaii? We can predict with relative accuracy, that a lot of people in the audience will say no. So then we got this audience of people out there, and then some of them may refuse to have Yes, in their mind. And then others have no in their mind. But instead of asking, have you ever been to Hawaii? What? What could we ask instead? could say, Have you ever? Have you ever? I'm thinking like of some peaceful? Like the archetype of Hawaii, like a peaceful destination about this? You could say instead of Have you have you ever been to Hawaii, we can predict many people will say no. Instead of that, say, Would you like to visit Hawaii? Boom, now we got majority of the people who have yes in their brain. So then, from start to finish, we capture the whole audience. And we have in their brains. Yes, yes. Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Except our proposal. Yes. That is genius. Yeah. And then another thing would be when we're giving a persuasive presentation, generally, there are requirements that the audience has, like they require a, b, c, and d. And then in your presentation, it can be organized, organized around what they want, what the requirements are so easy. Do we have a? Yes we do. Do we have B? Yes. Do we have C? Yes. Do we have D? Yes. So we got Yes, yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, yes. I'm saying yes. While we're on the Yes, train. Oh, how can people work with you, Ron? Okay, send me a DM at Ron Cahoon on Instagram. See a blue spell it out for everybody. R O N? P dot c AHON. N. Let's go to Instagram and follow Ron for consistent, amazing content. If you want to be inspired. Everyone's saying yes to that. The invite Dylan I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you for sharing. i My brain is inspired with all of all of so much right now. And I'm like, I now I want to go make content because I want to use, I want to use what you just said. And I want to prepare my content better. But I think everyone listening will be able to use this in some form or another because it looks different for everybody. Right? It's not always giving a presentation at the front of room. It could be like a saying like a live, you know, live presentation, or just video content in general. Like the things everything you shared is just like something. So here's the old baby pure gold, pure gold. Yeah, if anybody is watching this, and if you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Let me know. My mama says I got a heart of gold. I'm willing to help you. So it shines. I'm gonna go be going back through this episode. And like writing down I didn't want to take notes while you were talking. So I get to stick with what you were saying. But you dropped so many gems. Also that one about the heart. Speaking with your heart, you have to worry about the face. That's beautiful. As I remind that's like the nicer version of you've got a nice for radio. I have to confess. I came up with that the other day. I love it so much. Thank you so much rod. How great was that conversation with Ron, am I right? Ron has such a big heart and it comes across in his message in his coaching in his teaching. That's what one of the things I love most about Ron. So make sure to check the show notes for everything Ron so you can follow him and check out what he's doing. His Instagram reels are hilarious when he does like different characters. Just the other day he was Shrek. He's been Vin Diesel Fast and Furious. It's it's comedy and you got to check it out. It's so good. So thank you again, Ron, for coming on. And if you're interested in starting a podcast this year, make sure to check the show notes for that or go to www.DigitalPodcaster.com. My specialty is helping people with their podcast simplifying the whole process. I believe if you want to start or grow podcast, one of the key functions you have to do is step into the host seat and be the best hosts you can be. And part of being the best host you can be, is getting help with your podcast. And people think that's really expensive or they think it's, you know this whole thing, then they have to manage. That's why I created podcast Pro to take that off your plate because I know podcasts. I know what you need to do. I know all that good stuff. So try to make it as simple as possible for you and take the heavy lifting when it comes to the technical work of podcasting off your plate. So you can focus on what will move the needle the most. And oftentimes that's offloading certain tasks, and focusing on what you can do best like talking about different topics and hitting the record button because that's what's gonna move the needle the most. So check out the show notes for that or go to digitalpodcaster.com and I hope you're having a great start to your year so far. there's anything I can help with, let me know if there's anything you'd like me to specifically cover on the show. Please email me hello at DigitalPodcaster.com If there's someone that you think would be a great guest, please let me know to just email me and I'll talk to you soon.