WEBVTT 00:00:04.799 --> 00:00:19.760 Welcome to Beyond the Message, a midweek space where we continue the conversation from Sunday sermon, unpacking context, exploring your questions, and growing as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together. 00:00:36.719 --> 00:00:38.640 We're gonna jump straight into it. 00:00:38.880 --> 00:00:45.840 And in our summary of this, or in my summary of our message that you've given to us, Aiden, it was awesome. 00:00:45.920 --> 00:00:47.039 Thank you so much. 00:00:47.679 --> 00:01:02.719 We see that you explore Jesus' promise in John 14 that he would send the Holy Spirit, the parakletos, the one who would comfort to come alongside, to help and advocate for us. 00:01:02.960 --> 00:01:15.519 You parallel this with several of your own stories, particularly beginning with your wife's cooking through to COVID and the journey that God took you on personally in that space. 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:20.480 You conclude by challenging us around the fact that we are not alone. 00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:25.599 The Holy Spirit is always with us, in us and around us. 00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:33.439 Ultimately, are we recognizing that the Holy Spirit is with us and how will we engage with him? 00:01:33.920 --> 00:01:35.599 So thank you for sharing. 00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:40.079 Is there anything you'd like to add to that to expand to that summary? 00:01:41.040 --> 00:01:42.719 No, I think it's a great summary. 00:01:42.879 --> 00:02:04.319 I think overall, you know, sometimes as a preacher, you have your plan, you have your sermon, but you you also have like a tone or a sense like this message is challenging or this message is provocative, or this was very much an a comforting encouragement message that that we are never alone. 00:02:04.640 --> 00:02:09.520 So hopefully, if you sense that, then at least I I got that sort of tone across. 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:14.080 And that was very much Jesus' tone as he spoke to the disciples. 00:02:14.159 --> 00:02:15.919 So uh yeah, great summary. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.599 And uh I hear you can relate to some of my early stories there. 00:02:19.840 --> 00:02:21.039 I definitely can. 00:02:21.199 --> 00:02:30.400 Uh I got married at 21 and uh you know I went from living at home with my mum and dad to living with my wife, Rachel. 00:02:30.719 --> 00:02:38.080 And yep, I had to learn fast about uh cooking and cleaning and did you have to learn though? 00:02:38.159 --> 00:02:42.400 Or did well yeah, Rachel was like, I am not your mum. 00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:44.000 And so I was like, okay, that's fair. 00:02:44.080 --> 00:02:47.520 So 11 years on now, I've definitely I'm definitely better. 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:54.319 So do you reckon you'd be a better cook if you had flattered for 11 years or if you've been married for 11 years? 00:02:54.560 --> 00:03:01.439 Ooh, uh I'm gonna say uh I don't want to get in trouble. 00:03:01.599 --> 00:03:07.919 So I think uh being married for 11 years because then it's specific and yeah, yeah, true. 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:11.919 And like if a flatmates, you you're probably just doing beans on toast for yourself or something like that. 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:15.599 Where I'm sure Rachel has expanded the horizons of meals. 00:03:15.919 --> 00:03:34.639 Yeah, we we got into that because yeah, one of my analogies at the start of the message for those who didn't listen was you know, Jesus leaves the disciples and he promises them the Holy Spirit, and very much tongue-in-cheek, I compared this to when my wife Keely uh went for 10 weeks on mercy ships and and left me with a recipe book. 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:36.639 So she said, You will not be alone. 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:39.759 I've left you this thing in my place, and that will help you. 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:43.439 And and it very much did, and my cooking improved a lot in that time. 00:03:43.599 --> 00:03:47.199 But hey, we we're not here to talk about uh Christian husbands who can't cook. 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:54.319 We're hey, but what it does do is make sure that I, you know, teach my kids or you know, be a good model for my kids in that space. 00:03:54.479 --> 00:03:54.879 There you go. 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:56.960 So and you can do that for Rio too. 00:03:57.120 --> 00:03:58.000 Yeah, it looks out. 00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:10.879 Uh what it does uh dovetail well into though is that you know you brought out quite a few stories in that space for yourself and how you know where the Holy Spirit has been at work and uh love to hear some more about that soon. 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:17.439 But it also talks a little bit to the resource that we're using as a as a church here for this series. 00:04:17.600 --> 00:04:19.360 Uh yeah, familiar Stranger. 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:23.120 I started listening to this uh the other week and really enjoying it. 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:26.000 Tyler Staten has some great stories in there. 00:04:26.240 --> 00:04:30.720 Yeah, do you want to unpack a little bit why we chose this book and some some more of that? 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:34.959 Yeah, so this uh this book uh is yeah, the Familiar Stranger. 00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:43.120 Uh the subtitle here is Reintroducing the Holy Spirit to those in search of an experiential spirituality. 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:44.800 It's written by Tyler Staten. 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:54.879 Uh he's the pastor at Bridgetown Church in Portland, which many of you may kind of know was where John Mark Coma was the pastor, and um Tyler Staton took over from him. 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.519 Uh this book, yeah. 00:04:57.600 --> 00:05:04.800 I I I just loved that subtitle, Reintroducing the Person of the Holy Spirit to those in search of an experiential spirituality. 00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:24.720 I talked with Grant last time or in one of our podcasts for the series around my own work with young adults, and I felt like that they were in search of an experiential spirituality, and they did want to be either introduced or learn more or reintroduced to the person of the Holy Spirit. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:49.600 The the title itself, the familiar stranger, is is kind of that idea that we're familiar with the Holy Spirit uh as a person of the Trinity or part of the Trinity, but he's also somewhat of a stranger in that we we know Jesus, we know the Father, but the Holy Spirit can sometimes be that familiar stranger, that that word that's said at church or those song lyrics. 00:05:49.759 --> 00:05:58.959 But to actually be with the Holy Spirit or know the Holy Spirit as a person, as a friend, uh was something that was quite foreign to people. 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:03.199 So I like that title, and the book is really um helpful. 00:06:03.279 --> 00:06:12.319 It's it's not an academic book, it's got loads of stories, as you said, and it kind of will talk about a gift of the spirit and it will bring a story that expresses that. 00:06:12.399 --> 00:06:15.439 And they're not all like success stories as well, which I like. 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:19.120 There are, you know, the the times when you pray for healing and there is no healing. 00:06:19.279 --> 00:06:25.439 The time where you share a word with someone and it just doesn't connect, you know, like um the the epic fails as well. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:31.839 Um, so I yeah, we've we sold a few copies on on Sunday, uh, and yeah, you can get hold of it. 00:06:32.079 --> 00:06:33.519 Now you've listening on audio? 00:06:33.759 --> 00:06:34.319 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:06:34.480 --> 00:07:06.480 Listening uh on audio book, and it's actually uh I've listened to a previous book of his uh around prayer, and actually just this like familiar journey, I guess, of as he talks through prayer in that book and uses his own illustrations and stories and and now kind of experiencing that again makes it super accessible, I find, for myself in that space where I'm like, oh okay, this is like this is helpful to know, as you said, you know, the success stories and the ones that you know are a bit you know of a fail or don't quite work out the way that he hopes or expects. 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:14.000 And for me as someone trying to grow in my faith, or for us collectively going, this is it humanizes it, right? 00:07:14.079 --> 00:07:20.800 It's not this person that's written this book far off that's doing it, but actually that we can also participate in that as well. 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:21.439 Yeah. 00:07:21.680 --> 00:07:36.319 Um, and uh the other thing I just say about this book is that it is available on right now media as a as a life group study or individual, but there are like videos and questions that you can work through it as a group, so that you can get that for free through our website on the resources. 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:41.920 So uh whether you want to read it or listen to it or work through it at with your life group, we'd highly recommend it. 00:07:42.240 --> 00:07:42.399 Yes. 00:07:42.639 --> 00:07:43.279 Yeah, it's good. 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:44.000 It's good. 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.399 Uh thanks for picking that resource out for us. 00:07:46.480 --> 00:07:47.680 It's is it's great. 00:07:47.920 --> 00:08:14.000 Um regarding some of the stories as we're talking about in that book, but in your own journey, are there any other stories for you that really or some of the ones you might have shared that you want to unpack a little bit further or talk more about that have been impacting in this journey for you around uh you know the Holy Spirit present in your life where you're seeing him at work, or maybe some of the fail moments as it were where you've gone, ooh, didn't quite land how I hoped. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:15.839 Yeah, um, good question. 00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:24.800 Uh two two things come to mind actually, because we could do a uh a success and a fail, maybe um start with the fail. 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:26.319 And I I use that as a joker. 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:32.559 I think it's uh if you success is trying to hear from God and having the courage to share it in an appropriate way. 00:08:32.799 --> 00:08:33.039 Great. 00:08:33.200 --> 00:08:35.840 Uh and if it doesn't land, you learn. 00:08:37.200 --> 00:08:41.600 Unless you're saying something that's you know clearly unhelpful to a person. 00:08:41.919 --> 00:08:51.919 So anyway, one story that for me recently, I was uh I was on a plane trip back from Hamner's Springs retreat, which Grunt mentioned last week on the podcast. 00:08:52.080 --> 00:09:03.919 It's a Holy Spirit retreat for Baptist pastors on a plane back from Christchurch, and I was, you know, really excited and um you know had sensed the spirit working and and there's very much people sharing prophetic words and images. 00:09:04.320 --> 00:09:12.000 And I got chatting to this guy on on the plane, he was actually a pilot, um, but they were just moving up to Auckland, he was going to Auckland so that he could fly back down. 00:09:12.080 --> 00:09:13.600 So he was he was on shift. 00:09:13.919 --> 00:09:19.360 So it was super interesting because I'd not sat next to a pilot before, so I was asking him all the stuff about the plane, and and he was real chatty. 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:22.320 I was like, you must get this all the time, like if you don't want to talk, it's all good. 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.960 And he was like, nah nah, keen for it and stuff like that. 00:09:25.120 --> 00:09:45.440 So we we had good chats and got onto you know the fact what I had been doing down there, and I was at a uh pastor's retreat and I worked in church and um he was just such a such a nice guy, a really warm kind of uh we use that language of person of peace, but he was really receptive and warm for the conversation. 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:54.960 So as we were getting like closer to landing, I was like praying, like, God, is there anything you want me to share with this this pilot, this guy? 00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:02.480 Um and I kind of had this image in my head of like a uh empty plane. 00:10:04.000 --> 00:10:07.440 And uh I I haven't shared this with anyone actually, uh this story. 00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:14.639 So as an empty plane, I I thought, okay, God, if that's if that's what you want me to share with him, I'm not gonna start any more combo. 00:10:14.720 --> 00:10:16.720 Like he's gonna come to me, you know. 00:10:16.799 --> 00:10:24.480 So it's kind of like, okay, I'm not gonna force it, but if he chooses to re-engage, I I will say that, you know, I've had this image. 00:10:24.639 --> 00:10:31.279 So no sooner I do that as I open my eyes and he just leans in to chat about something else, and I was like, okay, here we go. 00:10:31.440 --> 00:10:42.799 Uh so I said, like, uh, you know, I believe God still speaks to us, uh, and that we've you know, sitting together for a reason and we just had such a great conversation, this connection. 00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:45.840 Um, and I shared the image with him. 00:10:46.240 --> 00:11:15.200 I said, you know, that there might be a sense where like there's some emptiness with within you, and there's an amazing life, an amazing person, but the the deeper down there there's an emptiness, and that may not resonate now, may resonate in a few years, but I feel like God wants to speak to you and um to to show you that he can feel that and he wants you to experience not just like great out outs outer story, but this inner depth and and relationship with him. 00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:22.240 Um and he was appreciative that I kind of shared that, but it didn't seem to like immediately click. 00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:47.440 And I obviously it's quite weird to say, you know, hey, you know, God said this, and it wasn't like a super straight up encouragement, like it there was a sense of like challenge with it, yeah, um, and vulnerability around the that, but because we'd had such good conversation, and I think he had a sense of my character and where I was coming from, it wasn't straight cold, and we continue to talk after that and move back into and I don't know where that lands from. 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:53.440 So that I said that as a possible fail or a possible, he might come back to that conversation later on. 00:11:53.840 --> 00:12:00.720 But the the process of like okay, noticing that he's warm, then listening to God, is there anything that you'd have me share? 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:15.039 And then I tested it with like okay, I'm not gonna say anything, but if he kind of leans back in, yes, then I'm gonna do it, and then kind of stepping into it, and then the like you know, sometimes it's nice when like you share something and it immediately resonates. 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.120 Yeah, it's quite a long time. 00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.000 Uh I don't know if people want to hear another story or or not. 00:12:20.080 --> 00:12:21.600 Um, what do you have any thoughts? 00:12:21.679 --> 00:12:22.720 I I can tell another one. 00:12:22.960 --> 00:12:23.679 Yeah, no, that's good. 00:12:23.759 --> 00:12:26.720 I think like the I think that's impactful, right? 00:12:26.879 --> 00:12:36.799 Is that you know uh often I think people look and go, well, as a pastor, you know, you you'll just this will come naturally to you, this will be super easy. 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:44.159 But yeah, what I guess I'm hearing from you is that there is this wrestle, there is this like, oh Lord, are you gonna say something? 00:12:44.240 --> 00:12:50.159 I'm I'm asking you and I'm I'm trying to be faithful here, and there's the potential for something to be a little bit awkward. 00:12:50.399 --> 00:12:55.679 And but yeah, we as pastors still wrestle in that space too, right? 00:12:55.759 --> 00:13:08.879 Like I was in an Uber the other day, and I'm quite intentional about my Uber trips, and I'm like, I always love to have conversations with the drivers because they love to chat usually, and you know, I'm similar sort of story. 00:13:09.039 --> 00:13:11.120 This guy coming along, and I'm I'm sitting there. 00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:12.720 I'm like, Lord, give me an image for this guy. 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.440 Lord, would you give me something to speak into his life? 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:19.919 And and I'm so I'm just like sitting as we're talking. 00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:23.120 He's telling me all about how he's ordered this. 00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:29.679 Um he's flying over to India to go pick up this toilet paper machine that makes rolls of toilet paper. 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:33.440 You hear the most interesting stories in Uber trips, honestly. 00:13:33.679 --> 00:13:36.960 And so he's telling me all about this, and then he goes, Oh, so what do you do for a job? 00:13:37.039 --> 00:13:38.320 And I'm like, Yes, classic. 00:13:38.399 --> 00:13:39.519 This is the this is the in. 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:44.399 I'm like, you know, easy to you know talk about Jesus in that space. 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.039 And I'm like, hey Lord, give me a word for this guy. 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:48.879 Give me a word, and I'll be like, Oh, I'm a pastor. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:14:09.840 The room just like shuts down completely, like as we're driving along, and he just he just like has this real as the without over spiritualizing the this this sense and the spirit in the room had just really shifted and it had completely changed, and it basically meant that our drive had stopped. 00:14:09.919 --> 00:14:11.600 And I was like, oh wow after that. 00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:14.320 I was like, Lord, did I should I have not have said that? 00:14:14.399 --> 00:14:16.320 Should I have done something differently in that space? 00:14:16.480 --> 00:14:18.480 Like, what what did I do wrong? 00:14:18.720 --> 00:14:20.159 Did you not want to speak to him? 00:14:20.320 --> 00:14:22.639 And so you kind of get left with all of these questions, right? 00:14:22.799 --> 00:14:24.080 Much like what you're talking about. 00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:25.759 You're going, Did that land? 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:26.879 Did that not land? 00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:36.480 And so I think for us it's it is helpful to be able to know that even when we try to do these sorts of things, it doesn't always pan out the way that we hope. 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:37.200 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.879 So yeah, no, I appreciate that. 00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:39.759 That's good. 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:59.279 And in your message, one of the things that this kind of leads me towards is actually, you know, whether it was the your guy that you had been talking to or mine, this this idea of like, I wonder if they feel a sense of conviction or uh or or do they resonate with that language of condemnation? 00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:08.639 And and one of the questions that did come in was around that was you know, what is the difference between the two with this com conviction and and condemnation? 00:15:08.879 --> 00:15:11.200 Yeah, it's a great question and a great link. 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:28.639 And that comes from the passage that we were looking at in John where Jesus is telling the disciples about the Holy Spirit and and the roles that the Holy Spirit will do, and let's say just random number, 99% of the things he talks about are within believers. 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:31.840 He will be your advocate, he will be your counselor, he'll be your comforter. 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:38.320 But then there's this section where he says uh when he comes, the spirit will convict the world of their sin. 00:15:38.639 --> 00:15:41.919 And there's a couple of verses that unpack that. 00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:47.039 So that's why we touched on that on Sunday, and I guess that's where the question comes from. 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:58.399 Difference between conviction and condemnation is in my experience, so I shared my experience of like kind of first sensing that conviction of the spirit. 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:03.039 I was actually like 15, I was like your classic youth group um person. 00:16:03.200 --> 00:16:08.080 I'd heard a sermon at youth group that just like really spoke to my heart. 00:16:08.399 --> 00:16:11.440 I said it cut through my teenage banter and bravada. 00:16:11.519 --> 00:16:47.519 Yeah, and like um, you know, for young people, you know, sometimes you just it just lands, but the conviction that I felt wasn't shame, like it wasn't it was a awareness of my own brokenness, but it was like so equally balanced with God's love for me that uh it wasn't like I'm gonna leave you there, it's like I'm highlighting my eyes were open to my own brokenness, but I realized even more in that moment God's love for me because it's like I'm this broken and yet he still loves me. 00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:57.759 I I've had every opportunity in a Christian home to kind of get to know him, and I've wasted it and squandered it, but yet he still loves me. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:04.319 So I felt, I guess, more sinful and more loved than I'd ever felt before. 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:15.119 And I think that's conviction, that's like you know who you are, the truth of who you are, and in that you feel more loved. 00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:20.799 Like I think Tim Keller said something like the truth is you're more sinful than you know, and you're more loved than you know. 00:17:20.960 --> 00:17:21.119 Yeah. 00:17:21.359 --> 00:17:22.160 Um that's great. 00:17:22.400 --> 00:17:34.640 Whereas condemnation, on the other hand, condemnation would be only exposing your weaknesses, your failures, but with with kind of uh no no hope, no redemption, no, no love. 00:17:35.039 --> 00:17:41.519 Just it's not like I've sinned, it's like I am a sinner and I will always be a sinner and there's no hope for me. 00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:45.359 Uh and there's that shame that comes. 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:57.839 So yeah, I think it's conviction is great, and people are sometimes scared of conviction, but I think it you know, there's that line in scripture, your kindness leads us to repentance, conviction leads to repentance and greater intimacy. 00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:03.599 Yes, whereas condemnation uh would kind of cause you to hide. 00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:13.119 It would be like, Oh, these things have been exposed in my life, I better hide that from everyone, hide that from God because if he knew this, he wouldn't love me. 00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:15.279 And that's what the devil says to us, right? 00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:18.240 It's like, oh no, you you've done this again, you've messed up. 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.559 Um you can't take that to God. 00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:32.400 Whereas conviction is like bringing it into the light, it's not it is painful, it's good, but it's it's a deeper knowing, like you can only be loved to the extent that you're known. 00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:33.200 Yes. 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:38.720 Um, so when you allow that part of yourself to be loved, it's like a deeper experience. 00:18:38.880 --> 00:18:39.440 So yeah. 00:18:39.599 --> 00:18:44.799 That's my own experience of conviction and condemnation, but I I'm I'm it's a quite a common question. 00:18:44.960 --> 00:18:46.799 How would you frame that for maybe a young person? 00:18:47.039 --> 00:18:48.240 Yeah, and I think that's great. 00:18:48.319 --> 00:18:54.079 I think I really uh I love some of that language that you use there, particularly when you're talking about guilt and shame. 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:58.160 And I I read something really interesting, is that guilt isn't actually a bad thing. 00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:05.119 You know, this like process of guilt uh often can actually go, oh like I'm feel guilty because I know I shouldn't have done that. 00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:09.519 I know that that was probably or you know, and that's that conviction side of things, right? 00:19:09.599 --> 00:19:25.599 This like level of like, oh, I feel this guilt because I have now come to a realization, or I've always known is this realization that I shouldn't have done this, or but I can actually continue on and and change my decision. 00:19:25.920 --> 00:19:31.200 Whereas the condemnation aspect is this sort of shame, and shame is never okay. 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:38.880 Shame, you know, to actually go and to shame somebody, to feel shame in that process, that is never what God's intention is, right? 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:45.119 You can't parallel a comforter and shame in the same sort of thing, you know. 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.119 So uh that's why I that's how I would probably unpack it. 00:19:49.279 --> 00:19:58.240 Or or maybe more simply, conviction is the opportunity to recognize and to reorientate, whereas condemnation is the end of the line. 00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:06.960 You know, it's just this like there is no progression forward from this, and it's just this like here's the line in the stand and that's it, you know. 00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:08.799 This is God's verdict on you. 00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:10.559 Yes, you are condemned, correct. 00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:12.160 There's no redemption. 00:20:12.400 --> 00:20:26.240 And so that's why I go actually here is this opportunity to you know recognise and reorientate towards him, to lean into him and to be expectant for what's next, you know, because that's what he does is he brings us through and and to bring us forward. 00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.599 So yeah, that's good. 00:20:27.680 --> 00:20:28.079 It's good. 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:47.359 Um one of the things that you spoke about there, which leads us nicely into our next question, is you know, you spoke of your journey of how you felt the conviction of the Lord at at a young age, and and we have young people all the time coming back, sharing testimony of the the Spirit of God at work. 00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:51.920 We read in scripture, Jesus says, Come to me, the children, bring the children to me. 00:20:52.240 --> 00:20:56.160 We must have a faith like that of the the young child. 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:00.079 And so, in light of that, how do we understand this? 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:18.960 Of you know, if we are to uh listen to those that are hearing from the spirit, and if we're to say that young people, children are able to hear from the spirit, how do you believe we as a church are hearing from the spirit of God through the youngest of these? 00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:28.079 Yeah, yeah, it's uh I totally agree, and I do think that you know believers of all ages are filled with the spirit when they come to put their faith in Jesus. 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.720 So um the spirit can speak through them. 00:21:31.359 --> 00:21:33.519 How are we as a church hearing them? 00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.960 And and I think we can both talk about this. 00:21:37.119 --> 00:21:44.240 Um young adults, pastor, youth pastor, we we have roles with younger people, depends on what people define as young. 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:52.000 Um so for young adults, there are a range of ways to formally be involved in this. 00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:54.000 Uh, young adults can become members. 00:21:54.079 --> 00:22:07.680 Uh and next week uh I'm meeting with a bunch of our young adults to talk about membership because um, you know that's Increasingly sensing that commitment to this local church and totally you're filled with the spirit, they can help us discern God's voice. 00:22:07.759 --> 00:22:11.599 So membership is one formal way that they can do that. 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.160 Um, also this year I had a we called it like Kai and Court et al. 00:22:16.400 --> 00:22:32.160 Um just had an opportunity to get a feedback from from the young adults on where we are at as a community, on you know what God is saying to them, where they want to see growth, where they're sensing, you know, God moments or wins in young adults. 00:22:32.559 --> 00:22:44.559 So I guess it's my job as a pastor to kind of listen and draw out their voices, yes, and and then also to kind of integrate that into our wider church. 00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:57.519 So you know, part of doing this series is um, as I've mentioned a number of times, has come through from my experiences of of of listening to young adults and sensing there was a curiosity around the spirit. 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:01.440 So that's actually a good example of kind of how things feed through. 00:23:02.000 --> 00:23:23.119 Uh I see my role as kind of sitting between the young adults and the and and the church at large and trying to draw both towards each other so that young adults feel part of the church and and are not just here to kind of take up a seat or to serve, but to to feel invested and and part of this community long term. 00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:26.799 And I think we're seeing great progress there, which is uh wonderful. 00:23:27.599 --> 00:23:33.279 Younger than that, um, or actually I won't go younger than that, we'll talk about youth uh and stuff in a minute. 00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:37.599 But the the other part of it is like so as a church we need to make space to hear. 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:49.519 But I also would always push things back onto the young adult themselves and say, is there maturity, is there commitment to this church, is there investment? 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:56.720 Um because it's easy to kind of say what the church should be doing um without any of those things. 00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:58.880 So like is there maturity? 00:23:59.200 --> 00:24:00.799 Is there spiritual maturity? 00:24:01.359 --> 00:24:09.279 There's in order to like share what I think the spirit is saying to our church, you need to be I need to be able to discern the spirit's voice. 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:27.759 I need to care enough about the community that I would listen on their behalf, that I would uh kind of have eyes big enough and a heart big enough to think what is God saying, okay, even if it's just to to our youth community, it it it requires looking beyond themselves. 00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:39.680 So I think there's a part for the individual of like, what does it mean to like really commit and participate and be a contributor to this church body rather than a consumer? 00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:40.240 Yeah, good. 00:24:40.960 --> 00:24:46.720 Who's who's going, hey, we just want more upbeat worship or we want uh you know better coffee. 00:24:46.880 --> 00:24:54.319 Uh like okay, the spirit may be telling you that, but uh I think there's more important things that spirit might be wanting to say. 00:24:54.559 --> 00:24:54.880 Yeah, yeah. 00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:55.759 What do you think? 00:24:55.839 --> 00:24:58.319 Um maybe like looking a little bit younger than that. 00:24:58.559 --> 00:24:59.440 Yes, yeah, yeah. 00:24:59.519 --> 00:25:10.720 I think you know, we uh hear physically from you know, we heard from Miko a couple of weeks ago as she spoke, and and you know, so we as a church are opening and creating spaces like that. 00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:19.440 We are discipling and you know, in the process asking for feedback or from our young people to go, you know, what are you sensing? 00:25:19.519 --> 00:25:20.079 What are you seeing? 00:25:20.160 --> 00:25:28.799 Because our hope is is that you know, it wouldn't be our youth ministry here and then the church over here, but actually that they would be one together. 00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:30.960 And I would say the same for our kids, right? 00:25:31.119 --> 00:25:41.119 And I so therefore that interwoven connection automatically brings a sense of how we are engaging and hearing. 00:25:41.200 --> 00:25:55.359 And I wonder if it's all about actually our posture in that space, then of are we actually willing to observe, learn, and listen from our you know, younger members of our church that are engaged in this space. 00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:21.920 And one of the things that as I'm thinking about that, I go, actually, even after church on a Sunday or as my connect group meets together on a a weekend or whenever it might be, just observing and watching the children play together, knowing that they are made in the image of God, that they too are filled with the spirit, watching the way that they care for one another, the way that they interact. 00:26:22.240 --> 00:27:00.400 And, you know, when someone falls over and there are tears and others gather around, and and I I go there in my mind is actually an image of the spirit at work speaking and comes back to me going, Do I have this perspective to be willing to learn, to listen, and to hear what the spirit might actually be speaking through the actions of my three-year-old as she is wandering the playground and embracing those that are around her or loving and caring for those uh equally the way that my eight-year-old leads this flock of, you know, 10 kids that love going after them, you know? 00:27:00.559 --> 00:27:11.759 So I I in that I go, that's a way in which we can be hearing and seeing God at work or the spirit speaking, even though they might not come up to us, you know. 00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:17.920 Isla doesn't come to me and say, Dad, the spirit of the Lord says, you know, we should vote for this person as an elder. 00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:19.440 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:27:19.599 --> 00:27:22.319 So I think there is appropriate levels of engagement. 00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:28.079 It's actually about as individuals and as a community, how are we taking time to observe those things? 00:27:28.400 --> 00:27:28.799 I love that. 00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:43.200 I love how you've taken it sort of maybe from the auditorium space or or a meeting to the playground and you know, to yeah, family, church, family life and worship in all of its forms and and how the spirit speaks to us through that. 00:27:43.359 --> 00:27:43.519 Yeah. 00:27:43.680 --> 00:27:47.920 Um, and yeah, and great point, Miko preached, you know, in our in our Luke series. 00:27:48.079 --> 00:27:48.480 Yes. 00:27:48.720 --> 00:27:52.319 Uh, totally opportunity to hear what the spirit is saying to our younger people. 00:27:52.480 --> 00:28:00.240 Um, even this Sunday we had two intermediates read the scriptures to us, which is, you know, reading God's word to the people. 00:28:00.319 --> 00:28:09.279 And I I know people loved having them read it, but I hope also that it's impactful for them when they kind of always remember that passage and go, Oh, I read that at the front of the church. 00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:14.559 And you know, maybe they'll have a special relationship with the Holy Spirit because they've dwelt on those words. 00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.400 So that was a cool thing to have happen. 00:28:17.359 --> 00:28:25.920 And I think like I go back to one of the most impactful baptisms for me was actually watching Leon Mead get baptized here. 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:30.480 And, you know, he was sort of saying, Oh, you know, wow, I'm seeing all these young people get baptized. 00:28:30.559 --> 00:28:32.720 I haven't done that, and so I want to go and do that. 00:28:32.799 --> 00:28:34.160 You know, that's speaking to him. 00:28:34.319 --> 00:28:45.599 But then I go to him and I go, Wow, uh, you know, we see so many young people getting baptized, but actually the older generation and in particular males engaging in this space less. 00:28:45.759 --> 00:28:56.079 And so I was like, I want to encourage you how significant this actually is that you're standing in front of everybody going, This is the declaration of my faith. 00:28:56.160 --> 00:29:03.680 And I'm like, how and there are I know that there'll be so many more people of his age and older that are sitting in that space that haven't made that decision. 00:29:03.759 --> 00:29:15.119 And I'm like, love the way that he's heard from God through the young people in the act that they're doing, but then also going, Well, I'm gonna go put that into action myself and the flow on effect of the spirit, yeah. 00:29:15.279 --> 00:29:15.920 So it's great. 00:29:16.079 --> 00:29:21.759 That's a that's a great point, and it does highlight that the question was particularly around young people. 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:28.079 But I like that that scripture in Joel, you know, I pour out my spirit on all people, old men will have dreams or see visions. 00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:43.920 I can't remember which way around it is, but it talks about the different generations, and yes, that is good to remember is that you know, with our roles, we we naturally are looking young, but the spirit is also speaking to people of all ages and all ethnicities and and backgrounds within our church. 00:29:44.079 --> 00:30:03.519 And um, whoever you are listening to this, you're listening for a reason, and you to some degree connect with our ministries, uh, and the spirit is speaking to you, and you have um a unique relationship with him uh and unique giftings from him and a unique contribution to church life that you bring. 00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:04.960 So thank you for listening. 00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:09.920 And one way of contributing is through you know, questions and thoughts for this podcast, but there are so many others. 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:21.200 So uh whether you're young or older or whatever your faith background is, uh, if you have put your hope and your faith in Jesus Christ, as I said on Sunday, you are never alone. 00:30:21.279 --> 00:30:47.279 Your whole His spirit lives within you permanently, not at church or or at life group, but as you're driving your car, as you're doing the washing or whatever you do when you listen to podcasts, uh He is with you, in you, uh, and wanting to speak with you and um be present to you, whether it's been a good day or a tough day or a great season or one of like really feeling lost, he he wants to draw you into the Father again. 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:48.240 Love that. 00:30:48.319 --> 00:30:51.119 Thanks, Aiden, and really appreciate you joining us today. 00:30:51.200 --> 00:31:03.519 That's um and that last thought there, I think, really sums up the heart of what we're trying to achieve in this space, is actually we can all engage and we can all see the spirit at work in us and around us. 00:31:03.759 --> 00:31:06.559 And so, how do we choose to engage in that? 00:31:06.799 --> 00:31:08.640 Really uh appreciate that. 00:31:09.039 --> 00:31:10.880 Well, thanks for joining us today. 00:31:10.960 --> 00:31:24.400 We're so glad that you've taken this time to be with us and just want to remind you next week we are continuing again actually with uh Aiden as he takes us further into our Holy Spirit uh season and and talking around Pentecost. 00:31:24.559 --> 00:31:27.279 And so we are excited uh to be doing that. 00:31:27.519 --> 00:31:30.799 Is there anything you want to preface us or give us as we head it in? 00:31:31.119 --> 00:31:39.759 I was gonna make a joke about you getting excited as a panty, you know, for Pentecost and like yeah, yeah, yeah, excites those Pentecostal backgrounds within us. 00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.920 But yeah, no, I'm looking forward to tender. 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:43.519 It's good, thank you. 00:31:43.839 --> 00:31:50.400 Until then, may God continue to shape us as we listen and learn and follow.