WEBVTT 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:19.839 Welcome to Beyond the Message, a midweek space where we continue the conversation from Sunday's sermon, unpacking context, exploring your questions, and growing as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together. 00:00:34.960 --> 00:00:38.880 So Aidan and I have assumed the role of joint preachers. 00:00:39.039 --> 00:00:41.920 Aidan was present to hear the sermon on Sunday. 00:00:42.079 --> 00:00:46.560 I was actually over at Wahiki Island and preaching out of Acts chapter 11, so something entirely different. 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:47.840 So I'll listen to it. 00:00:48.079 --> 00:00:51.679 And obviously Michaela delivered an excellent sermon. 00:00:51.759 --> 00:00:54.560 So here's a little bit of a summary that I took from it. 00:00:54.880 --> 00:01:02.960 Michaela took us as part of our Gospel of Luke series through Luke chapter 18 and took us through what has been a bit of a pattern actually in our series. 00:01:04.239 --> 00:01:07.599 A bunch of seemingly unrelated encounters. 00:01:07.840 --> 00:01:18.400 Looked at the Pharisee and the tax collector, looked at the little children passage, one that I often use, always use the fact when we dedicate children, the story of the rich ruler and the blind beggar. 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:24.400 And she connected them all together with really the question to say, so how do we approach Jesus? 00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:35.760 And the surprising answer that she gave us as we worked through it was that the kingdom of God is not received by those who have the most to offer, but by those who recognize how much they need God's mercy. 00:01:35.920 --> 00:01:44.480 Whether it's a tax collector crying out for forgiveness, children receiving what they cannot earn, or the blind man calling out for mercy as he did. 00:01:44.719 --> 00:01:46.879 Each story points to the same reality. 00:01:47.040 --> 00:01:50.239 We never outgrow our dependence on Jesus. 00:01:50.480 --> 00:02:01.040 And at the heart of the sermon was this powerful challenge to the common assumption that the Christian life begins with grace but is then sustained by our own effort, and we'll talk about that. 00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:09.759 Instead, Michaela argued that God's grace is not merely the starting point of faith, it's the foundation beneath every part of it. 00:02:10.159 --> 00:02:13.599 As she put it, it's grace all the way down. 00:02:13.759 --> 00:02:17.680 And she used that amazing example of the turtle. 00:02:18.240 --> 00:02:28.719 So today on the podcast, we're gonna unpack a little bit of that message, explore what it means to live a life of humble dependence on Jesus in a culture that prizes self-sufficiency. 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:30.560 I think that's a pretty good summary, Aidan. 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:31.039 You were here. 00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.080 What what did you think? 00:02:32.319 --> 00:02:33.680 Yeah, it's uh it's a great summary. 00:02:33.759 --> 00:02:47.599 It was a really clever message because it did cover a lot of biblical material that that you've said, but it uh it was so uh well themed around that idea of dependence on humility and how we approach God. 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:55.120 And it it sort of even started and ended with the same kind of words, have mercy on me, which was the title. 00:02:55.280 --> 00:02:58.639 So it made it very easy to go, okay, this is the key point. 00:02:58.960 --> 00:03:01.840 But we've actually covered a lot of uh a lot of sections. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:04.159 So uh that was a great summary. 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:12.960 Um, and I really loved that point around you know the assumption that grace gets us started or gets us in the door, but then the rest is up to us. 00:03:13.199 --> 00:03:18.960 And we we would never say that, but it can be how we operate uh as Christians. 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:24.000 I resonated with that and thought, oh yeah, I can totally be guilty of that. 00:03:24.800 --> 00:03:29.280 And I thought it'd be good to talk about why why do we think that? 00:03:29.439 --> 00:03:37.199 Like, why do so many Christians believe that it's grace that gets us started, but then after that it's our performance that keeps us going? 00:03:37.280 --> 00:03:39.599 You already indicated you know society. 00:03:39.759 --> 00:03:40.080 Yeah. 00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:45.680 What other reasons do you think, or or maybe you can dial more into how society shapes us? 00:03:45.919 --> 00:03:50.639 Yeah, well, I think that is the exact question how society shapes us. 00:03:50.800 --> 00:03:55.520 We're basically bred into a world in the Western world where performance is king. 00:03:55.759 --> 00:04:06.080 We think about going to school, we have to pass tests, we have to reach standards as we go through our education system, we're encouraged to grow into a career. 00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:07.520 It's all about performance. 00:04:07.840 --> 00:04:12.400 Our society prizes or values what success looks like. 00:04:12.479 --> 00:04:15.120 And let's be honest with ourselves, we live on the North Shore of Auckland. 00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:21.759 We live in one of the societies in New Zealand that most prizes that we're a high-performing society. 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.279 We have all of those things that surround us. 00:04:25.519 --> 00:04:31.920 Those of you that have been to the high schools in this area, we all have big digital billboards outside of it, right next door to us. 00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:36.240 Celebrating, celebrating our success, celebrating achievement. 00:04:36.399 --> 00:04:43.439 And so we live in this achievement-based world where we feel like our success is based on the things that we do. 00:04:43.680 --> 00:04:50.000 And that just is kind of like a natural overflow into the church world for us or our Christian lives. 00:04:50.240 --> 00:05:09.519 And so when we have that message that's constantly surrounding us, it's only natural, really, that it comes into all parts of our life, which is the major rub when we become followers of Jesus, because the gospel message, as we've been saying in Luke consistently for so long now, it's not about that. 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:15.839 It's about grace and that we don't need to achieve our salvation in effect. 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:23.600 Now that works out in the way that we live ultimately, but as Michaela said, grace all the way down. 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:35.120 So I think we live in a world, this is where the values of the kingdom rub so much against the values of you know who we are or or what our society says that we need to be. 00:05:35.279 --> 00:05:37.680 But I think it's a huge challenge for us in the church. 00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:39.120 Um, and you know, I've been there. 00:05:39.279 --> 00:05:45.199 Uh I'm I've been around when I was young, uh, you know, performance-based Christianity. 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:52.800 I mean, I was in worship teams, I was a musician, um, that kind of striving to be amazing on stage and all of that sort of stuff. 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:58.240 I got my self-worth out of that a lot, not so much out of the words that we were perhaps singing. 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:02.800 So, you know, I've been in that world and I understand it, and it's it is a challenge for us. 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:04.959 Yeah, yeah, it's in so many areas. 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:06.720 Um, I really resonated. 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:18.720 There was a metaphor that Michaela used around a child at some point, they you know, they need their father's hand to cross the road, and then at one point they get old enough that they they don't need that hand anymore. 00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:30.079 Yeah, uh, and feeling like, you know, I've got a two less than two-year-old, he definitely needs to hold my hands, and sometimes he thinks that he knows better and he can come down the stairs without holding my hand. 00:06:30.480 --> 00:06:40.800 Um, but as a as a believer, it's easy to feel like we've graduated from that stage of needing God to hold our hand or sustain us by grace. 00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:46.639 And I've noticed that I guess five years now worked at the church. 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:58.800 Um and it's probably easier to be dependent on God on day one versus now because when I started, I kind of didn't I had no idea what I was doing, and it was very obvious that I didn't. 00:06:59.199 --> 00:07:22.079 Whereas once you've preached so many times, or you've led this many Bible studies or done this many podcasts, or caught up with somebody in a pastoral situation, I feel like it's easy the first time to be very prayerful and very oh God, you need to help me and guide me in this, but when it's no longer new territory, it's easier for me to slip into self-dependence or self-reliance. 00:07:22.319 --> 00:07:29.120 Um, so that was a real challenge for me of going, it's not like a I'm not able to let go of God's hand. 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:29.360 Yeah. 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:32.240 Um well, let me give you a little insight into that. 00:07:32.399 --> 00:07:37.680 Hopefully, as you progress further in your career, I feel like I've been there. 00:07:38.079 --> 00:07:39.759 I feel like I've come around full circle. 00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:42.639 And like when I preach now, I'm like, God, I really need you. 00:07:42.959 --> 00:07:48.319 Um I don't want to rely upon my own ability or my own knowledge or my own strength. 00:07:48.399 --> 00:07:52.240 I re I really need you because it's a bit of a hard gig preaching when you've been doing it for a while. 00:07:52.639 --> 00:07:56.480 Because those that know me kind of like, oh yeah, grant says the same things a lot of the time. 00:07:56.560 --> 00:08:02.480 Um, because that's inherently some of the stuff that I value and always want to talk about, but I'm always like seeking after God. 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.319 All right, let this not be me. 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:06.399 Um, you know, what's new and fresh? 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:08.399 What do you want me to say to these people? 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:14.639 Uh so you sort of come full circle sometimes a little bit in the lives that we uh sort of call to. 00:08:15.279 --> 00:08:22.160 And I guess I hope that that's the case for all of us as followers of Jesus, that we never ultimately rely on our own ability. 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:29.040 That's why I often say, like I say, it's one of these repetitive things that I always say, we never arrive, we never get a certificate, we never know it all. 00:08:29.519 --> 00:08:33.759 And I think when we think we have, that's when we really need to sort of open up again. 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:34.480 Yeah, yeah. 00:08:34.639 --> 00:08:37.200 The spirit's got to challenge us to say, Yeah, yeah. 00:08:37.279 --> 00:08:39.200 Just when you think you've got that sorted. 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:42.480 Um, and I think the older we get, the more we're challenged in those areas. 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:44.639 Like parenting, I think that's a great example. 00:08:44.799 --> 00:08:52.240 I often say when it comes to our ability and careers or when it comes to money and things like that, it's like, all right, God. 00:08:52.879 --> 00:08:54.639 What I have is not mine. 00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:56.320 Keep challenging me. 00:08:56.639 --> 00:09:00.559 I need to rely upon your grace for that, the way that I live my life. 00:09:00.720 --> 00:09:01.039 Yeah. 00:09:01.200 --> 00:09:12.720 Um, it makes me think of uh driving licenses um and the idea of a restricted license where you you kind of need someone to supervise you and or something like that, or a learners and restricted. 00:09:13.039 --> 00:09:16.559 And as Christians, we sometimes I can feel like I've got a full license now. 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:22.399 It's like, okay, you got a full license for ministry, go and do your thing, but actually we're we're always dependent. 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:22.720 Yeah. 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:42.879 Uh so sometimes need to check that impulse and remember to um that we are sustained by grace, that our own efforts are great when empowered by the spirit, because we do need to make effort and we obviously prepare, and that's I think that's one of the reasons why it's so hard because it feels like a tension of going, well, then do I just not try? 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:50.000 Like, do I not try to get achievements or try to preach a good sermon or try to do well at work because I shouldn't be trying to perform? 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:51.759 So it's like, how do we do both? 00:09:51.919 --> 00:09:55.279 Like give our best, but also be dependent. 00:09:55.440 --> 00:09:57.120 Um well, that's a good question. 00:09:57.279 --> 00:09:59.279 Yeah, we got an answer for it. 00:10:00.399 --> 00:10:04.480 Uh somebody said, I don't know who it was, was Spurgeon or someone. 00:10:04.799 --> 00:10:10.240 Was something like um act as though everything depends on you and pray as though everything depends on God? 00:10:10.480 --> 00:10:11.360 Oh, I like that. 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:12.559 That is so true. 00:10:12.639 --> 00:10:16.080 Um I asked you that answer because I'm like, whoa, it's a tough question. 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.159 I don't think it was Spurgeon, but someone said that. 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:18.639 Yeah, yeah. 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:19.919 Well, credited to Spurgeon. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.399 Yes, credit for a lot of Baptist ends. 00:10:22.480 --> 00:10:22.639 Yeah. 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:29.519 So that understanding around who you know what grace is and how it applies to us, such a challenge for us. 00:10:29.679 --> 00:10:33.519 And I think that was, you know, a key point that Michaela was really trying to communicate. 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:36.720 She opened her message with a quote out of C.S. 00:10:36.879 --> 00:10:40.399 Lewis's screw tape letters, and a lot of people are very familiar with them. 00:10:40.559 --> 00:10:52.320 They are kind of you know significant books for a lot of people, where the mature Christian is no longer making grand promises to God, but simply relying upon his grace one day at a time, kind of what we're I guess talking about. 00:10:52.559 --> 00:11:03.919 She concluded that maturity is not increasing confidence in ourselves, but increasing confidence in God's mercy and grace, just really what you were saying, um, out of that maybe Spurgeon sort of quote. 00:11:04.879 --> 00:11:10.879 Looking back on your life, Aiden, uh maybe thinking back to when you were 20, you can probably remember that. 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.039 You know, that was more recent for you. 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:17.759 How would you have thought that spiritual maturity kind of looked in your life at that point? 00:11:17.840 --> 00:11:19.840 And maybe how's that changed? 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:41.919 Yeah, I think um I I would resonate with what Michaela said about I think she talked about being a 20-year-old during COVID and making these big promises to God, and uh there's that simple kind of naivety of being that age and wholeheartedly, uh God, I give you my life and you know, have your way and I'll go wherever you call me. 00:11:42.000 --> 00:11:45.519 And um, I guess I I would have been quite similar. 00:11:45.759 --> 00:11:56.559 Um I also work with a lot of 20-year-olds, so um it's probably easier for me to think about where where they're at than actually to remember how I was when I was 20. 00:11:56.799 --> 00:12:04.879 But uh I find that spiritual maturity for young adults often feels like how am I going in my devotional life? 00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.919 So how how many times this week have I read my Bible? 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:10.559 How how long have I spent in prayer? 00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:15.360 Have I been regularly at church and life group and in these spaces? 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:28.159 And if I have you know doing well in all those things, then my spiritual maturity is good, and if I'm not, then I'm backsliding or yeah, um not I don't know, not thriving in my relationship with God. 00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:33.600 Um so yeah, I I probably was pretty similar, which is kind of a performance-based metric, right? 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:38.720 It's like how am I doing over all of these assessments, and that's my spiritual maturity. 00:12:39.120 --> 00:12:49.519 Um coming to see that spiritual maturity is I guess recognizing our need for God all the time. 00:12:50.159 --> 00:13:06.159 And I'm in the season where I if I assess myself based on those metrics, I'll be tanking, I'll be struggling because my life is very different and I can't tick the Christian boxes that I used to tick with a nice calm coffee in the morning and having a quiet time with God. 00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:14.799 So I've had to adapt how I do that, and a part of me does go, Oh, uh you know, am I less spiritually mature now because I'm not getting this time? 00:13:15.360 --> 00:13:28.559 Um but I've had to recognize that yeah, that God is still with me at different different seasons of life, and uh yeah, I've been encouraged to look at the quality of my time with God rather than the quantity. 00:13:28.720 --> 00:13:29.120 That's good. 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:31.200 Um so that helped me reframe. 00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:32.080 What about you? 00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:36.799 Do you you remember what like you felt like who was spiritually mature when you were 20 or what like look like? 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:45.840 Yeah, well, I often talk about music being a big part of my life, and it was a very big part of my life for for many years, really until I came to Windsor in some ways. 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:49.440 Um and so music and lyrics of music were very formational to me. 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:53.919 And you know, when I was 20, I mean the world was in black and white, it was the old days. 00:13:54.080 --> 00:14:04.960 Um but I remember through those years there was a couple of songs in particular, and one in particular that said, Jesus, I believe in you, and I would uh basically go to the ends of the earth for you. 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:10.639 And I remember being very challenged by that thinking, well, I remember just God saying to me one day, would you? 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:11.840 Really? 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:16.799 And thinking, Oh, um, probably not, what are you saying? 00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:25.759 But being kind of a pivotal time in my life where I think he really challenged me around what lyrics I was singing and what impact that was having on my life. 00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:30.639 So there's that little line that we often say that the Christian life is a marathon, not a sprint. 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:36.799 And you know, I think all of those things that you described that young adults think about Bible reading and prayer, I mean that's all part of our growing up. 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:37.200 For sure. 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:39.919 It's all part of the rhythms that we do need to put in place in our life. 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:46.799 The challenge as we continue to mature and age is, well, are we actually listening to what it's saying and how are we putting those things into place? 00:14:47.120 --> 00:14:52.559 So for me, at my stage of life, it's not so much have I read the Bible this week. 00:14:52.799 --> 00:15:01.120 For me, it's like how are my actions and my attitudes reflecting decades of following Jesus? 00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:12.000 How does my interaction with the person on the street, in the supermarket, you know, as I often say to people, when we're driving on the on-ramps, when it's you know, we're erasing the person next to us? 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:16.320 What's I often feel myself saying, What is Jesus saying to me in those situations? 00:15:16.720 --> 00:15:27.360 How is my spiritual maturity affecting the way that I see people on the street, um, deal with people in the ordinary, everyday events that I have to face? 00:15:27.759 --> 00:15:28.879 How am I loving them? 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:30.480 What is my attitude to them? 00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:36.720 How am I dealing with the stewardship responsibilities that as I have matured and grown have become increasingly part of my life? 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:41.279 Because in many ways that's a natural sort of growth thing for us as well, as a parent. 00:15:41.440 --> 00:15:46.240 Um, you know, and now as a grandparent, uh, how am I loving my grandchildren? 00:15:46.399 --> 00:15:49.200 How am I trying to disciple them from a grandparent view? 00:15:49.279 --> 00:15:55.519 That's something that Joe and I are talking a lot about and learning a lot about at the moment, thinking around that for the future. 00:15:55.759 --> 00:16:07.840 So I think for those of us who have been around the traps for decades, and again, I often say this when I'm preaching, it's like we should be the champions of saying that's not about us anymore. 00:16:08.960 --> 00:16:13.519 You know, I often think to myself, worship and music because it's part of my life. 00:16:13.600 --> 00:16:16.240 If it's not my gig in church, who cares? 00:16:16.399 --> 00:16:17.840 I've been around for a long time. 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:22.000 Um, I'm I'm worried about your generation, or I'm worried about so we get to choose the music. 00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:24.639 From my view, from my view, yes. 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:24.960 Yeah. 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:34.399 But you're right, you say that and we laugh about it, but totally, because I don't need to get my spiritual fill out of 20 minutes of music on a Sunday now. 00:16:34.480 --> 00:16:36.480 Um now that was a part of my life when I was younger. 00:16:36.559 --> 00:16:39.039 I guess that's kind of the growth of maturity that I'm hoping for. 00:16:39.600 --> 00:16:53.360 And so I'm kind of saying those of us who are older, and as I increasingly get older, you know, my maturity should be reflected in the ways that I'm giving back, the ways that I'm trying to mentor young people, the way that I'm loving people around me. 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:57.600 Um, and you know, I guess I hope that that's what maturity looks like. 00:16:57.759 --> 00:17:05.359 Um I mentioned at Wahiki Island last week that we have, you know, two gifts in the church, the gift of encouragement and and the gift of fault finding. 00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.400 Um I I would hope that I ingest. 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.640 I would hope that those of us who are older don't have the gift of fault finding. 00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:16.000 We should be like the Barnabas, that's what I spoke about at Waiheki. 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:26.160 We should be encouragers, we should be those that are leading by example what spiritual maturity looks like as we continue to grow and change and keep learning. 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.559 That's it. 00:17:26.799 --> 00:17:28.880 Look, I take that challenge personally. 00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:33.200 Um, but I guess when I preach, I try to make that real for us as well. 00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.680 That's a great um, I guess, second half of life answer. 00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:46.720 And that is a lot of spiritual writing around second half of life being about how do I give my life away rather than how do I build up my own ego and stuff like that. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.400 Yeah, there's a lot of books written about it. 00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.640 Uh in summary, it's like how do you move from success to significance? 00:17:52.880 --> 00:17:56.480 And, you know, I'm 56, so I've still got a few years left, obviously. 00:17:56.799 --> 00:17:58.240 But increasingly we're living longer. 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:02.319 And so there are some challenges around what that looks like as well. 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:19.279 And actually, Holly Walton is just about to launch um, I guess a tool for us to use as a church for people that are transitioning towards retirement age as we are going through some of those changes, and really it's around saying, okay, God, after all these experiences that I've had in life, what do I do with them now? 00:18:19.440 --> 00:18:20.240 How do I give back? 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.519 How do I find my purpose in new ways? 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:30.000 As I'm still gonna live all things and equal for 20, perhaps 30 years. 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:37.440 Uh, and so I think it is that there's a societal shift going on there, and in the church, we need to capture some of that maturity that we have got. 00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:44.480 Again, for those of us that have been Christians for for decades, um, we should be the leaders in giving back and mentoring and caring. 00:18:44.799 --> 00:18:46.400 You should be in kids' church on a Sunday. 00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:47.839 It's my challenge to some of you. 00:18:48.240 --> 00:18:52.880 Um, you know, you you don't need to get everything that I can we give all the time. 00:18:53.279 --> 00:19:01.839 So I think that question of maturity and what it means for us is a huge question for us all to wrestle with, to wrestle with individually, but also to wrestle with as a church. 00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:14.640 That's a great uh application and kind of life course thing, and we talked about kind of young adults and young family stage and then like you know, um like further and sort of established career and then retirement. 00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.880 What does spiritual maturity and service look like? 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:21.759 Yes, it's really good speaking about it on a podcast because I can't see anyone when I'm looking at right now. 00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:22.079 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:25.759 Like on a Sunday, I gotta be careful, you know, not to look at my friends. 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:26.240 Yeah. 00:19:26.799 --> 00:19:27.839 You're close to retirement. 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:28.400 Yeah, yeah. 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:30.400 You can look at the camera and it could be anyone, yeah. 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:31.279 Yeah, it could be anyone right now. 00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:32.319 Well, we're just talking to each other really. 00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:37.599 Yeah, you know, you can always retire early. 00:19:37.759 --> 00:19:44.880 I don't think we took covered a lot of characters in this message. 00:19:45.039 --> 00:19:53.359 Um, Michaela talked about, you know, there's the initially the comparison between the Pharisee and a tax collector and how they kind of prayed to God. 00:19:53.599 --> 00:20:00.960 Um then we talked about the children, which is you know one of the classic passages that people know Jesus' interaction with children. 00:20:01.200 --> 00:20:10.240 There's the rich ruler, which is another classic kind of passage, especially uh um, you know, I it's in a North Shore context, it often gets brought up. 00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:12.160 Um, and then the blind beggar. 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:16.000 So there was uh what's that five different characters at least. 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:24.720 Um, and one question that people could think about that we could perhaps talk about is which one best describes us or which one do we most relate to. 00:20:24.960 --> 00:20:25.440 Yeah. 00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:27.599 Are you asking me that question? 00:20:27.839 --> 00:20:29.519 Am I a Pharisee or a tax collector? 00:20:29.599 --> 00:20:31.599 Or you can take it one or however you want. 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:37.119 Michaela interestingly missed one story in the passage that we were looking at at the beginning of Luke chapter 18. 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:37.440 Oh, yeah. 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:41.200 Um, Lazarus, who saw Jesus uh, you know, on the road. 00:20:41.279 --> 00:20:42.319 Uh little Lazarus. 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:43.279 He was so little that he had to climb. 00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:43.839 Zacchaeus. 00:20:44.240 --> 00:20:48.799 Oh, Zacchaeus, sorry, yeah, we still got Lazarus in our head from uh from when I spoke on him recently. 00:20:48.880 --> 00:20:48.960 Yeah. 00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:49.920 Zacchaeus. 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:51.359 And that's right. 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:59.200 I really love that story because I think Zacchaeus reflects a lot of people, perhaps. 00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:02.480 I think Zacchaeus was interested in Jesus. 00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.640 He was like, What's all this fuss about? 00:21:04.799 --> 00:21:08.079 He kind of reflects this sense of something's going on here. 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.400 I don't quite know what it is, but I want to have a bit of a look. 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:11.359 Climb a tree. 00:21:11.519 --> 00:21:12.400 Yeah, climb a tree. 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:17.440 And then Jesus sees him and says, you know, Zacchaeus, I I gotta eat with you. 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:27.759 Um, which again, hospitality, huge part of Jesus' ministry, sitting around, chatting to people, revealing himself, you know, talking about the big issues. 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:28.640 Love that. 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:40.160 Love that we are so strong in our life groups these days, because I imagine that hopefully a lot of life groups sit around and eat, drink coffee and etc., maybe on a Friday night, other things, um, and talk about faith. 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:41.039 And I love that. 00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:44.880 So Jesus, you know, incredibly strong part of his ministry was doing that. 00:21:45.119 --> 00:21:56.960 And then when he sits down with Zacchaeus, he makes no demands on him, but Zacchaeus, out of his own response, says, you know, I'm gonna give away half my wealth, and to those that I've ripped off, I'm I'm gonna repay them. 00:21:58.480 --> 00:22:05.200 That kind of Self-reflection that Zacchaeus has, I think, is incredibly challenging. 00:22:05.519 --> 00:22:12.240 He recognizes who Jesus is, he recognizes that he needs to respond, and he follows that through. 00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:15.920 I think that's I find that deeply challenging for myself. 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:17.200 I've always loved that story. 00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:21.279 I guess I've always pictured a little Zacchaeus climbing a tree. 00:22:21.519 --> 00:22:26.559 Um I think, in fact, someone told me that they're actually telling that story in preschool at the moment here at Windsor. 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:27.039 Oh, okay. 00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:28.319 Um going through that story. 00:22:28.559 --> 00:22:29.920 Um, so that that's cool. 00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:36.640 Um but I love it because it I guess Michaela didn't cover it in that message, but it's in that block. 00:22:37.119 --> 00:22:41.519 But it is that reflection of his ultimate dependence upon Jesus. 00:22:41.759 --> 00:22:43.759 And and then follow through. 00:22:44.079 --> 00:22:44.319 Yeah. 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:47.680 Okay, I recognise who you are, I recognise my sin. 00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:55.039 I recognise you know how I have not lived kingdom values in my life, I'm gonna make it right. 00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:55.519 Yeah. 00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.759 Um, and I think that's really powerfully challenging to us. 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:06.000 The recognition in our own lives of who Jesus is and then what that means to me. 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:15.119 So when we talk about doing life and faith together at Windsor, one of our little catch lines, I'm like, yeah, life and faith, they roll together. 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:30.960 Faith is so much more than head knowledge, head knowledge has to transfer to our hearts, a recognition of who Jesus is, and that will always lead us to be challenged in the way that we live, in the words that we say, um, and the way that we live our lives wherever that might be. 00:23:31.200 --> 00:23:37.519 So I I find I find Zacchaeus, I guess part of that block of stories, really, really insightful for me. 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:47.200 Uh it's a it's a great story, and it le finishes with verse 10, which I think is the final verse before we get to where you're going to go this week. 00:23:47.359 --> 00:23:55.759 And that verse 10, 19, verse 10, is one of the key verses of Luke where it says, For the Son of Man came to seek and save the lost. 00:23:56.160 --> 00:24:11.519 I when we talked about names for the series, I played with the idea of seek and save because that's such a key verse to what we've been talking about is Jesus' mission to the outsider, to the lost, to the ones who are not welcomed, to the ones who are not expected. 00:24:11.759 --> 00:24:17.680 And he he says this in response to those accusations about eating with sinners and tax collectors. 00:24:18.079 --> 00:24:25.119 And it's another statement of like why Jesus came, for the Son of Man came to seek and save the lost. 00:24:25.599 --> 00:24:36.160 Um, so a key part of Luke's Gospel and this Sunday we're reaching the end of our sort of third block in Luke, and you'll be preaching the final sermon of this part. 00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:39.839 Uh, can you tell us briefly uh what we're gonna be hearing on Sunday? 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:42.240 Where are we in Luke's Gospel and what's it about? 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:50.319 Yeah, so again, a little collection of three stories that ultimately ends where this whole block has been taking us through. 00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.119 Jesus on this journey towards Jerusalem. 00:24:53.680 --> 00:25:02.079 We end up at the the gates, effectively, of Jerusalem, with Jesus kind of arriving there, and there's a couple of stories before that that kind of lead us there. 00:25:02.240 --> 00:25:08.319 They really all link into, I guess, one of the meta-themes that we've been looking at through this whole block is who is Jesus? 00:25:08.480 --> 00:25:11.759 And do we recognize him and what does that mean to us? 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.119 And we end up with a range of different people responding to Jesus in a range of different ways. 00:25:17.279 --> 00:25:33.200 And it's the sense it's a little bit, you know, we covered some last week around, I guess, the second coming of Jesus, and one of these stories is about the king went away and came back, and so we acknowledge that he is coming back, that there will be a second coming in effect. 00:25:33.519 --> 00:25:36.319 And will we recognise Jesus at that point? 00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:44.319 Um, and how do we go about growing that in ourselves and how do we go about helping others kind of recognize who Jesus is? 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:55.119 So we kind of end this block at the at the the entrance to Jerusalem before we resume it in 2027, as Jesus purposely goes towards the cross. 00:25:55.440 --> 00:26:02.319 So we end the series um at Easter 2027, which is at the end of March this next year. 00:26:02.640 --> 00:26:05.759 So this Sunday you're taking us right up to the walls of Jerusalem. 00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.079 Yeah. 00:26:06.160 --> 00:26:07.839 Uh and Jesus is about to enter. 00:26:08.079 --> 00:26:09.039 And this is the journey. 00:26:09.200 --> 00:26:10.640 So this has been the journey this year. 00:26:10.880 --> 00:26:12.559 And Sunday before Palm Sunday. 00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:13.839 Yeah, pre-Palm Sunday. 00:26:13.920 --> 00:26:15.920 You got a lot of time to get them ready for 2027. 00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:17.440 So we'll be finishing the journey. 00:26:17.599 --> 00:26:19.440 Grant will be preaching that message. 00:26:19.599 --> 00:26:25.599 So we look forward to um hearing it and um, you know, uh your preparation and all that. 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:40.799 I know you've obviously preached on Waihickey last Sunday, you've got this message to prepare, and then for future series, so it's a lot going on, but we know that um the spirit will be working with you as you kind of analyze and prepare to film in here, and we will bless like our congregation and those who listen. 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:46.160 So I encourage everyone to tune in as we kind of wrap up this section of Luke's Gospel. 00:26:46.319 --> 00:26:52.319 Uh, and until then, may God continue to shape us as we listen, learn, and follow Jesus together.