Wisdom Earned: One Man's Journey into Sacred Plant Ceremony (ft. Joe Grumbine)

🌿 Highlights:

• First Miracle: The pivotal story of the first cancer patient he helped with a handmade cannabis tincture.
• Sacred Plant: His "communication with a plant spirit" after a pinch of peyote from a Road Man.
• The Drum: The power of all-night Native American teepee meetings and the water drum.
• Wisdom Earned: Hard lessons, including a cancer diagnosis and legal fight, delivered the wisdom he prayed for.
• Mass to Mission: The experience is only 20% of the journey; 80% is the critical work of integration.

Joe Grumbine was the founder and president of the human rights organization The Human Solution International, a 501c3 since 2009. He has been cultivating and formulating cannabis-infused products since 1989. Joe is CEO and formulator of Willow Creek Springs Inc., a manufacturer of hemp-based skincare and therapeutic products, as well as a formulator for several cannabis and hemp companies.  Joe founded "The Gardens of Hope" as a 501 (c)(3) organization in 2023 and has begun to bring horticultural therapy and education to those in need. In 2023, Joe launched the Healthy Living podcast to build a community focused on health in mind, body, and spirit. In October 2024, Joe was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and began a journey to live and solve this with the least damage. Joe discovered some powerful tools and is now in remission, avoiding surgery and radiation. He shares his story in the podcast and recently had his case study in PubMed. Joe has dedicated his life to helping others find their way to their best lives.

Connect with Joe Grumbine here: 

Http://thegardensofhope.org

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-healthy-living-by-willow-c-108166149/

Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Wisdom Earned: One Man's Journey into Sacred Plant Ceremony (ft. Joe Grumbine), Sunday, November 9, 2025

Interview Transcript:

Hello, and welcome back to Healer Within. This is Amy Marohn, your host and spiritual hypnotist. Today I have a very special guest, Joe Grumbine. He is the host of Healthy Living by Willow Creek Spring Podcast, and he is also the founder of Gardens of Hope, located in Southern California. Joe, welcome and thank you for joining us today.

Speaker 2 (00:28):

Oh, Amy, it's my pleasure. We're, we're, we're having such a great conversation. I was like, oh, well, aren't we supposed to be recording? Exactly,

Speaker 1 (00:35):

Exactly. I'm like, hold that thought, Joe. Hold that thought. I want you to share it. Joe, you have such a vast and fascinating background that even as I pondered where to begin in this podcast, <laugh> <laugh>, I, I could start anywhere and it could lead us down the path to a wonderful conversation. But I think where I would like to start today is to have you share with our audience more about your background in plant medicine.

Speaker 2 (01:06):

Oh, absolutely. So, you know, I've been working with plants since I was a little kid. My grandmother taught me how to take cuttings when I was probably like five years old. And I was always fascinated by the ability to take one plant and make another plant out of it. And just, you know, my dad we had a little bit of property growing up, and I, I earned money by taking care of fruit trees and, and working in the garden, you know mowing the lawn and, and planting and taking care of our, our property. And it just sort of became part of my life. And when I my first experience with plant medicine was probably probably about 1982. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I was, well, no, that's not true. It was earlier than that. I think I was probably in seventh grade when I tried cannabis for the first time.

Speaker 2 (02:06):

And I had a, a friend, a, we were like Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn, you know, back in the old days. And we explored and, and, and tried things and just, he was kind of a, he was a little more a little more adventurous than I was. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But I was always eager to, to jump in and, and, and try the things that he proposed. And so mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I, I, I had plenty of that myself, but he was, he was a little more aggressive than I was, which was kind of cool. It helped bring me out of, I was always kind of a introvert by nature. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, you know, life has brought me out into the ability to share my experience with people. So I tried cannabis, you know, like I said, I was probably in seventh grade, and I was always one of these hyper kids.

Speaker 2 (03:02):

I was always, you know, they called me gifted. They, they, you know, I was, I learned to read when I was like four years old and mm-hmm <affirmative>. I read and read and read and, and, you know, explored and wanted to learn everything I could learn. And this kind of helped me quiet down a little bit mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and experience, rather than always be on the, on a mission. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I didn't consider it to be medicine. I just considered it to be fun, and it resonated with my spirit. Well, later on, a few years later, I, I planted my first cannabis seed, and I grew my first plant mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I connected with that spirit of that plant. Again, not realizing that that's what I was doing. It just was very interesting to me. Like, I'd go out there every morning to watch the plant grow.

Speaker 2 (03:52):

Yeah. And I would put my energy to it in a way that I didn't with the other plants. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Fast forward a few years probably 1985 I met a guy who taught me how to grow better. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. He was a kind of a, an expert, one of the few mentors I've had in my life. And I became even more intrigued as I learned a little bit more about it, about how to, you know, how to grow it, different ways to grow it, and things that I could do. Fast forward a few more years. I think probably 19 88, 89, I grew, I grew up with a, a lung condition. I had asthma and allergic bronchitis. And I, my dad was a doctor, so I went through all these allergy shots and testing and midnight trips to the emergency room and shots of adrenaline and nebulizers.

Speaker 2 (05:00):

And it was pretty traumatic, you know? And I never knew. All of a sudden I wake up at two o'clock in the morning, I couldn't breathe, you know? And, and, you know, it's pretty scary when you can't breathe. And so but as I got older, I hated the medicine. I hated the pills, and they made me feel horrible. And I just never liked that. And I stumbled upon a book about natural medicine. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You know, this is before computers, so there was no internet, you know, there was, yeah, I remember, yeah. There was books. And I stumbled upon this book, and I started reading it, and it was interesting about all these different plants that were medicinal, and it even had some formulas about making teas and tinctures and these different types of extracts. And I said, wow, that's interesting. And it inspired my, my little boy curiosity again.

Speaker 2 (06:03):

And I said, well, I guess I'm gonna start a mission. So I started collecting seeds and plants, and I started growing them. And I said, well, let's see what this is all about. And I had a property, my, my first house that had a little, a decent little backyard, and I started growing this medicinal herb garden. And as the plant started to mature, I started to try some of these recipes mm-hmm <affirmative>. And at the same time, I was growing and consuming cannabis, and not really considering it medicine, but it was, yeah. And over time, in talking to local friends and neighbors, I would talk about my little experience. I tried this tea and it seemed to help me with this thing. And I made this little alcohol tincture. I made this different extract and trying out these different formulas, and I'm, I, I keep finding out that, well, that's kind of interesting.

Speaker 2 (07:07):

It seems to help. Well, more and more people started going, well, I've got this problem. Maybe you can make something for me, <laugh>. Wow. And it just happened very organically, and I didn't ever have any, like, oh, I know this or that. I'm like, sure, I'll try. You know, this happens. And over time I just got a little experience and started to be able to make more and more things. Started writing down, you know, I journaled everything and, and all these different recipes. I started this recipe book, and I, I was a, a commercial and industrial painter at the time, so I was working in all these different factories and buildings and traveling around to different jobs. Well, I turned out there was a used bookstore almost near everywhere that I was at. So I started collecting all these herbal books and reading them, and then I, I started to realize that there's all this information that the more I knew, the less I knew.

Speaker 2 (08:12):

Yeah. And, and there's all these different points of view and different places that people studied herbs from. And so I came to a point where I had a considerable library, and when I went to go and research a formula, I would read a bunch of different books about it, and I would realize that not everybody agreed. Sure. All these different authors, and one would say, oh, this is the best job for this. And the other one would say, nah, that's not that good. And I realized that there's all these different areas that these herbalists were from, and they had access to different plants and different knowledge. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (08:56):

You don't necessarily are gonna learn about this combination of plants if you live over here. Yeah. Completely. Yeah. And so what I started doing was like, if I could get three or four herbalists to agree on a formula mm-hmm <affirmative>. Then I would consider it as viable. Wow. So I would have to read a lot to go and say, all right, I got one. I got another one. I got another one. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. All right. I think this is worth exploring. So then I would, you know, either have the herbs available, or I would start to find sources of you know, all these different apothecaries that are out there. And I started to explore some of the more earth-based religions and some of the, the herbs that were used for spiritual practices mm-hmm <affirmative>. Different things. And I started to become trained in some of those those traditions.

Speaker 2 (09:54):

And I started learning more and more and more about all these different uses my mental, spiritual, and physical Yeah. That these plants could be used for. And I found, wow, you know, this is the more I did, the more I learned it works. And then along the way, I discovered that cannabis was medicinal, and I started to do extractions and make medicine with it. And so years into this, I had a friend who was a, a teacher, she was a nurse, but she also taught the continuing education units mm-hmm <affirmative>. And she started bringing me in as the guest speaker to talk about, you know, alternative healing. And I started being asked to teach workshops and classes. And I realized when I taught my first one that I learned the most when I was teaching mm-hmm <affirmative>. Because I had to, I sharpened my pencil, you know, I had to have the answers that these people are gonna ask.

Speaker 2 (10:53):

Yeah. And so I, I started embracing the teaching path along the way. And then again, I was a, a curious mind, and I had friends who were also curious. And so we explored psychedelics. We went and explored mushrooms mm-hmm <affirmative>. And LSD even. And I found, I became what I called a tour guide mm-hmm <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so people would come to me and they'd never done these substances before. And I'd say, well, I can take you on a journey where you'll be safe. You know, I recognized that, you know, people could freak out or they could have a bad experience, but for some reason I always stayed in, in a good way. Like, it, it seemed to, again, I wasn't looking at it as medicine, but it was healing me. Yeah. Well, and

Speaker 1 (11:52):

Yeah, go ahead. I, I, oh, no, I wanted to ask a, a question about that, but keep, keep going. Yeah. Well,

Speaker 2 (11:59):

And I, again, it, this is always like, I'm never going around saying I'm this or I'm that. Yeah. I'm just living my life, you know? Yeah. I don't, I don't have any ambition to be famous or, or considered to be in regard of anything. I'm just a guy trying to do a, a good job in life, you know? Meanwhile, I've got, you know, some young kids. I got a marriage, a marriage that failed and, and went going through all my own, you know, problems in life. And overcoming that, meeting another woman along the way. And in spite of all my in trepidation and never gonna get married again, I end up marrying her and raising her two young children. And she was a widow. And we've been together for 30 years now. Wow. And, and so, you know, learning along the way, you know, all these, all these things, it was probably cannabis is the, the medicine I spent the most time with as I understood the, the, the magnitude of the things that it could help with.

Speaker 2 (13:10):

And I started to, you know, through these books and meeting people, learning about all the different things it could do. And I started making medicine out of it and extracting and making oil and discovered that it could help cancer patients. And the first lady that I ever, I made this stuff that was a tincture, and I would make it into a laur, you know, and flavor it with these different fruits and things, and mm-hmm <affirmative>. Again, I did it in my mind as an experiment, you know? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It was recreational thing that was powerful, but, and I started realizing maybe it could help as a medicine. And I had a roommate at the time, I was in the separation phase of my first marriage and mm-hmm <affirmative>. I had a roommate, and he had an aunt who was going through cancer. She was in her seventies, and she was going through chemo and I think radiation and, but I know chemo for sure.

Speaker 2 (14:10):

And she couldn't sleep, and she couldn't eat. And she was always nauseous, and she was sick, and she was just really in a bad way, and that it wasn't necessarily the cancer that was hurting her so bad, but the treatments. And I said, well, I said, maybe this can help. I don't know if it can help, but I don't think it would hurt her. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. She was this, you know, God-fearing woman and she would never do drugs, and Yeah. But she had an open enough mind. I think what happens is we find ourself in a very difficult place, and the conventional wisdom or treatments aren't working, and then your mind starts to open up to, well, maybe I would try something else that maybe I wouldn't normally consider because I might think it was not good, or whatever the reason, but I'm in such suffering, or I'm in such misery, or, or I'm afraid of what's gonna happen next that I'm willing to try something.

Speaker 2 (15:11):

Sure. Yeah. And I think she was in that spot. So she tried my tincture, and after a couple of months I kept giving it to her. And yeah. I didn't charge her anything for it, I just said, you know, mm-hmm <affirmative>. Try it out, see if it helps you. And I remember she, she sent me a card mm-hmm <affirmative>. Through my roommate, and he gave it to me, and it was just Wow. Whew. I could still get emotional thinking about it. Yeah. And she just said, you've, you've changed my life. You've, you've given me hope and I pray for you every day, and I thank you for what you've given me. I can sleep now, I can eat. Yeah. And, you know, it's a miracle what you've given to me. And I was like, whoa. You know? Yeah. I, I realized that there's something here, you know? Yeah. And that was kind of the beginning of my, my real plant medicine journey where I realized that I was onto something, you know? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And that's kind of the beginning of it all.

Speaker 1 (16:16):

Wow. And it just came from such a pure Yeah. Authentic place within you. Right. There's no end game here except to help others.

Speaker 2 (16:26):

Yeah. Just, you know, exploring and learning and, and, you know, I wanted to help myself first Yeah. And, and, and make medicine that would help my lungs Yes. Because I didn't want to take this stuff. So that's kind of was the original seed for it. Sure. But it was also just, you know, my curious journey and Yep. And, you know, I always wanted to be a good person, you know, I wasn't always a good person, but I always wanted to be sure. And so if I found a way I could help somebody, I would always, you know, consider it.

Speaker 1 (16:59):

Sure. It was like you played this informal medicine man of your community which is such a beautiful story. Boy, you and I have to do some past life regression <laugh>. Yeah, for sure. So I'm very curious about the origin of, of your soul. Yeah. But, you know, I, boy, I, one therapist said to me a long time ago, let your mass be your mission <laugh>. And that really, really resonated with me. It's like it, at first, in, in our early beginnings we stumble upon something, a tool, a modality a resource, and we are the Guinea pig. We Oh yeah. Carry it on ourselves.

Speaker 2 (17:47):

Right, right. Always. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (17:49):

It reaches a point where it's too good not to share. Right. You are. So you become <laugh>, this might be a strong word, but the evangelist of whatever it is. Well,

Speaker 2 (18:04):

What happens is, is like you learn something and you get excited 'cause it works. Yeah. And you're like, you hear about somebody that you're like, oh, I know something that could help you. Yes. And I wanna share that with you. And I'm so excited, and Amy, you know, this thinking about it, it actually goes back further than that. When I, I grew up, I was raised Catholic, and I got a Italian family, and everybody's Catholic. And I went through the training. I was an altar boy, went through

Speaker 1 (18:33):

The, I know the drill

Speaker 2 (18:35):

Catechism school, and, you know, went to a Catholic school for some of my educational journey and, you know, was taught the Bible and all this. But at one point I came upon that story of Solomon mm-hmm <affirmative>. And, and where God came to Solomon and said, you know, you're, you're, you're ordained and I wanna give you a gift, and you can have any gift you want. And, and Solomon had the insight to say, I want wisdom. And then God blessed him in so many ways. And also he was still human. He made his mistakes and all the things that happened through it. But that story struck me as, wow, that guy got it. Yeah. At 10 years old, you know, I'm just a kid, but I, I was, I was struck with that. And I began to pray for wisdom at 10 years old. Wow. And what I learned throughout my life, it was only recently that I said, okay, enough of this wisdom stuff. Because wisdom comes with hard knocks.

Speaker 1 (19:41):

Yes. Oh, isn't that the truth?

Speaker 2 (19:44):

I, I kept finding myself in precarious spots and then I'd find my way out of it. And I'm like, after a while I'm like, oh, this is that wisdom. Yes. And I'm like, alright, maybe I can take that and help somebody else with it. Now I can, I can pass on the wisdom after I got diagnosed with cancer. I'm like, alright, enough of this stuff. Let's let's get onto another chapter

Speaker 1 (20:05):

E Exactly. I mean, NN necessity is the, the mother of wisdom. Right. And, you know, you touched upon something and I absolutely wanna circle back around and talk about your current health, sto health storm and Sure. Some aha moments and epiphanies. 'cause That's a fascinating p piece of your hi, you know, of oh yeah. Our story here today. But the other thing I'm very, very curious about, you and I touched on this before we, we hit the record button <laugh> the use of plant medicine and sacred ceremony. Yeah. you had a very interesting story of working with the Native American community Yeah. And to help you release some, I'll just call 'em, you know, emotional, spiritual, inner stirrings. Right, right. And I would love if you would share with our listeners more about that story.

Speaker 2 (21:12):

Yeah. Well, let me take you to the genesis of all this. And through all of this, you know, like I said, I, I, I used mushrooms off and on, and I still use mushrooms occasionally mm-hmm <affirmative>. And now more ceremonial than ever. But before, you know, it was always like a, it gives you a big smile for the whole night, you know? Yeah. And you just, like, you're smiling. I'm like, how, how could that be bad? You know? Yeah. And, and I, I, I learned to make DMT out of a plant root, and I, I explored that a little bit. I stopped doing LSD as a young kid because it takes a lot out of you mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's not originated from plants, you know, it's, it's synthesized and it's powerful and I think it can have a lot of healing to it, but it always took more out of me than I was willing to give. And, and when I got into my thirties, I'm like, all right, enough of this. So I, I probably will never do LSD again, but I don't need to, you know, it, I've experienced it. I, I, I, I got what I got out of it and, and there are some medicines I do once and I go, oh, wow. That gave me what I needed. I don't need that anymore. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:33):

Completely.

Speaker 2 (22:34):

But I had a friend who was, you know, I went through this whole thing with the cannabis where I, I had a battle with the government for six years. They locked me up and for helping people. Oh yeah. There's a whole chapel.

Speaker 1 (22:47):

Oh my goodness. That's another podcast. Joe <laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:50):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I, I actually had another nonprofit I ran for 15 years called The Human Solution International Uhhuh

Speaker 1 (22:57):

<Affirmative>. But

Speaker 2 (22:59):

I went to battle for this, and I, and I, and I risked, you know, my freedom, my livelihood, my home, everything, because I knew what I was doing was helping people. Yeah. And there was a guy who was very supportive and visited me when I was locked up. And, but he was always very manic and a little paranoid and always like chaotic energy. Yeah. One day he comes to my house and he's got this sense of calm about him mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I'm like, Larry, what happened to you? You know? And I was just like, it was palpable. Like, you know, he was just like, whatever that chaos that was in him had dispersed and he was just this peaceful guy. He says, yeah. And you're not gonna believe it. I just came back from Montana and I sat with these Indians in a teepee ceremony.

Speaker 2 (23:52):

And he said it was life changing. And there were these ladies who came all the way from North Dakota to help with this ceremony for him. And he came to me 'cause he wanted to get some products that we make to give to them as gifts. That was his reason for coming. And he said, he told me a little bit about this all night long ceremony, the same thing I was telling you we just did last weekend. And he took out this little film container. I don't know if you remember the old film canisters? Oh, yes. Uhhuh, little plastic containers. We'd use 'em for holding all kinds of things. Right. Yeah. Little waterproof container. And it had this powder in it. And he said, if you want, it just had a little bit. He said, if you want to taste it and just see what I went through, he says, it probably won't affect you, but at least you'll, you know, you'll get a taste.

Speaker 2 (24:46):

And I, alright. So I took a little pinch and I put it in my gum, and almost immediately I felt a connection to all my cells. And they like sparkled. I was like, whoa. That was like, like, it just reached inside of me and said, I wanna sit with you. And I'd never experienced anything like that before. Like a communication with a plant spirit like that. Yeah. And it was purely medicinal and spiritual. And I was like, whoa. That was incredible. And shortly after that, the, the medicine man they call him a road man. That's the, that's the term that they use. And the, the ceremony that they do is in the tepees called a meeting mm-hmm <affirmative>. And he said this road man that helped me. He said, he, he's going through some financial problems and he has a teepee that he is looking to sell.

Speaker 2 (25:41):

And he said, and I was doing all right at the time. Yeah. And I was like, oh, that'd be cool. You know, have a teepee as a decoration, you know, I didn't think about it. And I says, well, how much does he want? And he told me, I says, yeah, I'll help the guy out if he did this for you. I want to help this guy. Yeah. And that was my thought was, you know, my friend Larry was transformed with this ceremony. I go, whoever helped him, I want to help them. Yeah. And so I said, yeah, tell him I'll buy his teepee. And I had no idea what that meant, you know. And then within a couple of weeks he's like, well, he's gonna bring it down and they wanna do a meeting. And I'm like, whatever. I don't know what that means, but, you know.

Speaker 2 (26:22):

Okay. And again, I just, I didn't have any fear or any, any reservation. I saw what it did for him. And I didn't know anything about peyote. Yeah. I, I, I never had an interest in learning about it. It was just, I knew it was a plant drug, but I didn't know anything about it. I knew there was a group of people that used it in their, in their religion, in their, their medicine. But that was all I knew nothing about it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And all of a sudden it seemed like out of nowhere, this guy comes rolling in, in a pickup truck and he is got all these long, long poles on the top of his truck. Oh. Then he told me, yeah, you gotta buy the poles too, to put it up. And so, all right. I gave him money for that <laugh> and just like, crew of people comes in and there's these two medicine men, road men, they call 'em.

Speaker 2 (27:17):

And next thing you know, we're, we're putting this teepee up in my backyard, and it's huge. This thing's like 24 feet across. And I'm like, I'm, I'm learning like really quick about all these things that are about to happen. And then my wife is got Native American in her, and she was like, kind of afraid. And she's always the one that's overwhelmed by everything and afraid and doesn't want to do it. And I'm like, well, come on, let's just try it. You know, <laugh>. Right. And, and I said, you know what? You can come or not, it's not, I go, I'm gonna go in. I feel called to do this. And then she just said, you know what? I've, I'm connected to this. I think I, I wanna do. And she sat with us in this ceremony, and it's all night long, and it's drumming and praying, and they have this drum that's called a water drum.

Speaker 2 (28:08):

It's an incredible instrument. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And it's like a, a wooden or a metal bowl. And they have these stones that they put around and they tie the skin across it with a, a leather strap. And it's just, it's like they turn this bowl into a drum and it has a little bit of charcoal from a, a ceremony that goes in it, and water goes in it, and the skin is wet, and you hit this thing with a certain stick, and it makes these incredible sounds. The vibration that comes out is just magical. Mm. And you can make all these different tones with it. And there's these songs, they're teepee songs. And through the night they do this, there's a rattle that's part of it too. The person who sings the song is shaking this rattle and the other guy's drumming. And it, there are four song sequences mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (29:05):

And so you sing this one song, and then the drum shifts and it changes its tone, and then another song, and then the drum shifts and changes his tone. Then another song, then another song. And that's like one set of songs. And it's a prayer. And you do this through the night with tobacco prayers. And water is a big part of it. And if you know about water, you know, water has memory and it's, it is life, you know? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And you connect to the earth and the air and the fire, there's a fire in the teepee. And that's really your connection to creator. You know, fire is, you know, the middle of the earth is fire, the sun is fire. In our heart, our spirit is fire. And it's really where divinity is. And you can sit with this fire and receive incredible connection and messages.

Speaker 2 (30:00):

Mm-Hmm. And so after that all night meeting, I came out a different person. Yeah. And I realized, wow, this is amazing, powerful medicine. We journeyed through that for several years. And these two road men would come and to our property, and people would come from around, from Mexico, from other states, they would all come down to our property and we would have these meetings. But at COVID time, both of these road men died. Oh my. And not related to each other. They just, they both died within six months of each other. Hmm. And I was like, oh my God, I've lost my connection to this medicine. Like mm-hmm <affirmative>. How do you go and find a newand? You know, you don't

Speaker 1 (30:44):

Yeah. Completely not

Speaker 2 (30:45):

Easy looking for a, a man. And so I, I was sad. I said, I don't know what to do. You know, I don't know, you know, I felt like this was gonna be a part of my life. And then it went away. Well, fast forward to last year my business, Willow Creek Springs, we make natural products and use a lot of hemp-based ingredients, but all natural ingredients. I've been doing it for 25 years mm-hmm <affirmative>. And we had grown our business to the point where we moved into an office, and we had a neighbor, Kevin, who worked with Mushroom growing medium. And so they, they made this grain-based medium. And I was interested in curious, and I a little whisper in my ear, said, go be friends with this guy. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I was like, well, that's weird. I'm an old guy.

Speaker 2 (31:41):

I don't care. I don't need any more friends. You know, like I'm, I, I never go outta my way to make friends with people. I just, you know, if somebody comes, we, it happens organically, or it doesn't. Right. But its little voice whispered in my ear, said, go be friends with this guy. I was like, that's weird. And over time, he'd come over. I gave him some of our products. He found them helpful. We talked about doing some collaborative work and mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then one day he came back and, or he was getting ready to leave, and I said, oh, where are you headed off to? He says, oh, I'm going fishing. I go, oh, I love to fish. And I said, maybe one day we can go fishing together. Well, several months later we went on a fishing trip mm-hmm <affirmative>. And was on a boat together for like four days, and we gotta know each other. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (32:30):

Wow. That's a way to know somebody.

Speaker 2 (32:33):

Well, not only that, but there was a really traumatic experience. The cook died on the boat, and when he was going through a cardiac arrest, I was sleeping, and he came and woke me up. He's like, Joe, Joe, get up. You, maybe you can help this guy. He is going through a trauma. And I'm like, okay. And I went up, you know, stumble up to the, to the galley and this guy's going through, you know, he was like an 80-year-old guy. And he had, we didn't realize that we had already had heart problems and diabetes. He was, he was going out mm-hmm <affirmative>. But through it all, that whole like, traumatic experience, we got to be close. Like you find closeness through difficulty. Hmm. Because you find what people are really made of. Hmm. And when something goes really wrong, like when I got arrested and locked up, most of the people I knew in my life, including family, just took off. They didn't want anything to do with me. But a handful of them came to me Yeah. And said, Hey, we're here to help. You know, I call 'em like first responders and Oh,

Speaker 1 (33:37):

Soul tribe, soul

Speaker 2 (33:39):

Tribe. When, when I got sick, the same thing, you know, I got, I got diagnosed with cancer. Most people are like, whew, I, I'm, I'm outta here. And, but a handful of people are like, Hey man, let's, let's, let's get to this. Let's solve this. And, and so completely, you really find connection. So fast forward again, Kevin comes to me one day, he says, like, I'd like to do an event at your place mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I was like, well, we've done events at our property, but it's a lot of work. And my wife is like, I don't wanna do that anymore. Yeah. But if something told me, go do this event, like, we're gonna build this. I was already in a mindset, I want to build this community. And, and, and he originally it was gonna be like a mushroom based thing. I said, well, why don't we make it health based instead of just mushroom base and we can bring people from different modalities.

Speaker 2 (34:34):

And I was already doing the podcast and I said, you know, we can build a community through this. Well, one of the original guys that was helping to do it went sour on us, and it was just a drama and over nothing. And I was like, at first Kevin was like, I don't know, maybe we shouldn't do it. I said, no, no, let's go forward. I, I, I feel like there's something just like that little whisper that said, go be his friend. It was like, do this event. Yep. And I was like, alright. So Kevin had an idea of, well, let's bring people, we had all these speakers that were gonna be coming from around the world. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Different healers. And they were gonna do, you know presentations as part of the event. And we were having them come on to Instagram live and do, you know, like a little interview to say, Hey, we're gonna be here.

Speaker 2 (35:26):

This is the event. And this one lady, there was two people, Salvador and Florina, three Hawk, they both came on. And I was like, she's talking about integration of plant medicine and preparation for ceremony. And I had never even, like, I'm like, wow, that's deep. Like you're really Yeah. You get it. Like, yes. Yes. And her presentation touched me in a way that I said, well, I need to get to know her. Yeah. So I said, you know, I'd love to have you on my podcast, and maybe you could come out, see the property and, you know, maybe there's a way we can work together mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so the plan was, she was just gonna come up and we were gonna record a podcast episode, take some pictures for the event mm-hmm <affirmative>. And see what happened next. You know, she shows up with Salvador and one of the other members of her collective, and it was like, magic just happened.

Speaker 2 (36:30):

Mm. And she showed up at probably like one, two o'clock in the afternoon, and next thing you know, we're talking and sitting. And then they showed me Rae, which is a tobacco mm-hmm <affirmative>. And herb based snuff mm-hmm <affirmative>. And they, they, they gave me some mm-hmm. And they taught me about it. And it was my first experience with that. Mm-Hmm. And it was like, whoa, you know, you guys are amazing. Like, I have a whole history with tobacco, and I was already done with tobacco, and I mm-hmm. I came to accept it as a sacred tool mm-hmm <affirmative>. With respect and reverence, rather than just this thing I did. Yeah. And I was like, wow, that was amazing. And ultimately, my wife made this beautiful meal. We sat down and shared a meal, and at the time I had this lump sticking outta my neck, but I was not diagnosed mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (37:31):

And I didn't, I didn't know that what I had was cancer. In fact, I had a doctor that said, it's probably not cancer. And so, but I knew it wasn't getting any smaller, and I knew that there was something I had to deal with. Next thing you know, it's nine o'clock at night. We had not recorded anything. We didn't take any pictures. All we did was talk mm-hmm <affirmative>. And just get to know each other. And I was like, wow, this is amazing. Well, at the very same time, I was working with a number of other facilitators, and one of them had talked about combo, which is a frog based medicine. It's a frog poison, basically. Yeah. Yes. And what they do with it is you get you sit in a ceremony and then they, they take a little stick and they burn little dots in you.

Speaker 2 (38:25):

Yes. And then they take this medicine and they rub it in the burn, and then it goes into you that way. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I was already planning on doing it with this one facilitator, but then after this meeting with Florea and Salvador, she came to me the next week and said, I would like to do an ayahuasca ceremony at your place just for a few people. And they're coming from a long way off. But I, I, I, I said, well, that would be beautiful. I'd, I'd like to, you know, see if we are a good match. It seems like we are, but you know, you don't know until you try. Yeah. And, and so I agreed. I go, well, come on out. You can just use the place and we'll just see how it goes. And she came out and she turned out she was gonna be serving somebody else combo that morning.

Speaker 2 (39:18):

And she said, if you'd like to sit with combo, I will serve it to you. And I said, whoa. I said, I was already gonna do it with this other person, but I would love to do it with you. So mm-hmm <affirmative>. We created this little beautiful place on the side of my stream, a little beach. And, and my wife and I both sat with this. And it's incredible because like, when something comes to me that way, I don't fear it. I don't, I don't have any reservation. I go, well, there's something divine about this coming to me like this, and I'm not gonna question it, and I'm going to give it a chance to, to help me. And we sat with this medicine and it was a beautiful ceremony. Like I could tell just the care and reverence and deep understanding both of them had with this medicine that I, I was fully trusting and, you know, perfect love and perfect trust mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (40:22):

And I had nothing that was like in my way mm-hmm <affirmative>. So I was able to completely let go. And the medicine came into me and it was like, whoa. All of a sudden I got hot, my whole body got really hot. I was sweating. And then the next thing you know, you're purging and purging and you prepared for it though. You were on a water fast for, you know, 24 hours before. Oh. So you didn't have any food in you, you know, you're, you're, you're cleansing your body to receive this medicine mm-hmm <affirmative>. And we had done that correctly. And so you feel this medicine literally like going through all your body, it goes into your head mm-hmm <affirmative>. But it goes down into your arms and then into your chest and into your organs, down into your legs, down into your feet. And just, you can feel it like scanning you.

Speaker 2 (41:15):

Wow. And, and then incredible after, or you're, you're done. It's not a very long process. Maybe 20, 30 minutes. And then she takes the medicine off and you sit in the creek a little bit and you finish the ceremony and you integrate. And afterwards she did some energy work with me mm-hmm <affirmative>. And literally like opened me up mm-hmm <affirmative>. My heart and got me to recognize, you know, my inner self and the need that I had to really love myself in a way that I thought I did, but I mm-hmm <affirmative>. Hadn't. And next thing I know, I'm weeping in front of all these people. I didn't even know powerful. And I was just weeping. And I was like, whoa, I don't know what we just did here, but it was big mm-hmm <affirmative>. And subsequently in the next couple of days, I had this overwhelming desire to just get rid of all these things.

Speaker 2 (42:20):

And I had objects, I had even some plant medicine that I wasn't really working with anymore, that was connected to people that were negative in my life. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Relationships that I was holding up and making excuses for. Yep. I was just like, let it all go. Yep. And that's what the medicine does for you. And that began a path that, so this was like back last September, so it's been about a year and a half that I've been on this big journeys. In October, I get diagnosed with cancer. I find out that Florina and Salvador also work with peyote. Hmm. But it's a different ceremony. It's an outdoor ceremony, not in a teepee. And I said, wow. Okay, let's, let's, let's try it. The medicine wants to come back, so let's try it. And subsequently we've sat with this medicine a dozen times, there's more.

Speaker 2 (43:19):

And then another medicine man comes to us and he has the natives teepee ceremony. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I was like, oh, the teepee's back and I still have my poles. And so we've been doing this ceremony, and then another medicine man comes and he works with another medicine called Wachuma. It's a, a different cactus and bufo, which is a toad medicine. And that was another just powerful experience that I shared. And through this, I've been able to, from the time I got diagnosed in October till now, walked through a number of ceremonies with the intent and purpose of learning what to do, and then getting discernment and clarity and strength. And each time was a different focus of mm-hmm <affirmative>. I need a different thing. Okay. At first it was like, I need to understand the problem. Yeah. And so then I get all this information came flooding to me from all these sources. And then I'm like, well, I need to sift through this and figure out what applies to me. And then all of a sudden one thing shines and another thing shines and another thing shines. And these other ones were like, eh, it's not for you. And, and so I start going down this, and then I needed discernment. Like, you can only do so many things at once. Oh,

Speaker 1 (44:53):

Isn't

Speaker 2 (44:53):

That true? And then all of a sudden I get, you know, that's when Dr. Hoffman came to me and out of, just through my research and I meet this guy and next thing you know Yeah. I'll help you. And he comes on my podcast now regularly and mm-hmm <affirmative>. I learned about this diet and these practices and this community of people that are healing themselves. And it's all just been, like in September when I began to get rid of all these things mm-hmm <affirmative>. I cleared out, I'd say 60% of my life. Mm-Hmm. Like, I just, all these things that I thought were important, even my other nonprofit, I let it go. I'm like, I can't do this anymore. I have to focus on this. It's taking too much. And I didn't have the support anymore. People weren't, you know, cannabis got legalized and people are like, ah, it's not a big deal anymore. And they didn't get it. That it's still a problem, but I couldn't take on everything in the world. Right. So I just let all these things go. And it was like magic. Like within days of letting this stuff go, these beautiful, I call 'em unicorns. These beautiful Yeah. Unicorns just start coming in like one after another. It was just kind of wild.

Speaker 1 (46:08):

No divine timing.

Speaker 2 (46:10):

Oh my god. And, and, and, and offering assistance and help. And, you know, this new nonprofit starts taking off and then I get diagnosed, I'm like, I got all these programs going. And I'm like, I don't know what to do. And had to let some of them go for a while. Yeah. While I was working on this. But through all this, I came up with a series of therapies that put together healed me. And I have it, you saw a picture of me when I had this giant tumor. It was really, I was a monster. And I couldn't go anywhere 'cause I was like a freak show. People just would be like staring at me. 'cause I literally had this giant monster sticking outta my neck mm-hmm <affirmative>. And without surgery, without radiation, with some chemotherapy and all these other treatments I was doing, and these plant medicines, it's gone. Wow. And I'm getting ready to get a final scan to figure out, you know, determine that it's gone. Then I'm gonna go to Japan where they have a, a really accurate scanner mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it is science that we don't even have here in the United States, but it will definitively tell me that my cancer is gone and, or I still have some work to do. And either way I'll know.

Speaker 1 (47:39):

It's, it's an incredible journey you've been on, Joe a as I mentioned, even before I hit the record button, I know that you and I are gonna have many conversations. Yeah. And

Speaker 2 (47:55):

We're already blasted through this 45 minutes.

Speaker 1 (47:58):

Oh, exactly. And I have so many very

Speaker 2 (47:59):

Scratch the surface.

Speaker 1 (48:00):

Exactly. And I have so many questions for you, but I'm gonna put a teaser in here because I already know where we need to go for our next podcast. Beautiful. Part two, and I know there's gonna be many parts. I love it. Where I would love to pick up in our next podcast interview is I would love for you to share in greater depth your protocol for fasting. Oh, yeah. The elimination of a particular amino acid Yep. That is found in meat. Yes.

Speaker 2 (48:39):

All protein

Speaker 1 (48:39):

Not mistaken. Yeah. All protein. And I, I know that you had a recent interview where true north was mentioned, Uhhuh <affirmative>, the facility that does water fasting. I'm familiar with it because a, a hypnosis client of mine used it to shrink a tumor on her parathyroid uhhuh. But I really, and Anne, I'm fascinated about this technology in Japan. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:11):

Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:11):

And so I wanna do an entire podcast. I love that. Western medicine and alternative medicine protocols for cancer. Yeah. And I wanna dig in deeper on your particular kind of cancer.

Speaker 2 (49:27):

Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (49:27):

And in closing today and I know this is more of a mind bending question, but I wanna leave our clients with something of a spiritual nature. Joe, if I were to ask you in closing, what is your soul here to learn in this lifetime?

Speaker 2 (49:56):

Well, you know what's wild? Before I did this buffo ceremony, I got I got a message in my, in my heart, and it said, what are you willing to do for this? Mm. And I was like, whoa. You know, that was before I even was served the medicine. And then in that process of, of, of the medicine, I left my body and I went up to this room of light and I was talking to what I think was my creator. And I was signing a contract, and I, I came out of it and I was shown my whole journey of this problem coming into my life, and then my whole healing. And that I just needed to do the work. And I was healed. I was healed already in the spiritual realm, which is where it matters. Oh my goodness. Yes. I just needed to walk the walk, but my contract was that I am giving my life to help people.

Speaker 2 (51:02):

Mm-Hmm. And, and it's not that like what I learned is you need to do what I did. It's mm-hmm <affirmative>. I can teach you how to find your answer. Your problem is unique to you. Yeah. And I, I'll never understand your problem the way you do, but that's not my job. Yeah. I can teach you how to connect with source and how to, how to find the place to find answers. Mm. A lot of it has to do with your desire to live your purpose Yeah. And to find and have a purpose and to live. Like Yeah. I have this amazing, I love life. Like I love every bit of it. Yeah. Even if it's hard. I love it. And so what was driving me was I want to continue living, but I came to a place in this where I saw darkness coming to me, and I actually had to accept that maybe I wasn't gonna live anymore.

Speaker 2 (52:03):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I, I came to a place where I, I talked to God. I said, you know, I, I, I feel like you might be wanting to take me right now, but I don't think you do. And I said, but if you do, I'm all right. I feel like, you know, I did what I could do and I don't have any regrets, but if there's a way for me to keep going, I'd rather choose that. And yeah, shortly after that, I felt my, my light starting to grow again. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so in, in, in, I guess a kind of long answer, I really think that my, my purpose and my calling through all of this is to help people to find their answers. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And to show through my actions what's possible Oh. And what's possible. The human experience is miraculous. And we have two things that we are given as gifts just by being human.

Speaker 2 (53:06):

And one of them, and there's a lot more than two probably, but these two in particular, we have the ability to every day start all over. Yeah. Say, okay, today I'm gonna be a new person. Like, we have the ability to begin again every day, and we also have the ability to endure anything and to carry on through any adversity. Yep. And so I feel that I've been given the gift to demonstrate that, and I have people tell me all the time, how, and I don't go around preaching anybody, anything. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You know, I'm not here to tell you how to find your, you know, your connection to God. I just go, I found it this way, and you can find it. It's there <laugh>. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:57):

And,

Speaker 2 (53:57):

And, you know, go look for it. That's where you start.

Speaker 1 (54:00):

Yep.

Speaker 2 (54:01):

And I have people tell me all the time that, wow, you inspire me. Like you mm-hmm <affirmative>. You, I, I, I watched your story, I heard your, something you said, and, you know, you really give me the inspiration to, to go forward. And I think that that's somehow a big part of what this is all about. So.

Speaker 1 (54:21):

Hmm. Joe, I,

Speaker 2 (54:23):

Whenever I can.

Speaker 1 (54:24):

Yeah. I, I, I love your story your openness. I personally would love to do an internship at your <laugh> I love it. Organization and just shadow you for I a year. I'm convinced that some of your plant medicine can help me with two rare conditions that I have. I'm

Speaker 2 (54:48):

Sure it

Speaker 1 (54:48):

Could. I mean, absolutely. Joe, how in, in closing how do people find you on YouTube, on your website through email? How do people find?

Speaker 2 (55:01):

So I'm pretty prolific out there. I've got an Instagram, the Gardens of Hope is really one of the easiest ways that Gardens of hope.org is a website. Instagram, the Gardens of Hope YouTube, the Gardens of Hope. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I also have a personal channel Joan Groba, that goes back into the history of my battle with the government. The podcast is also featured there. Healthy Living by Willow Creek Springs. It's on all the major platforms, the podcast there's over almost 300 episodes now and over a hundred guests. And I do a lot of solo episodes. And I, I, my personal emails out there in all of these things, I'm very reachable. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I'm here to help

Speaker 1 (56:00):

Joe. It, it's amazing. Thank you so much for joining us today on My Healer within podcast <laugh>. I cannot wait for our future conversations. And, and again, thank you for being so generous with your time and your spirit, and your story. Have a great day.

Speaker 2 (56:19):

Wonderful. Thank you so much. And I've gotta jump over to another interview, so Absolutely. I, I, I, this has been amazing. Let's do it again soon. Sounds

Speaker 1 (56:28):

Great.

Speaker 2 (56:29):

All right. Take care now.

More Information on Joe Grumbine:

Joe Grumbine was the founder and president of the human rights organization The Human Solution International, a 501c3 since 2009. He has been cultivating and formulating cannabis-infused products since 1989. Joe is CEO and formulator of Willow Creek Springs Inc., a manufacturer of hemp-based skincare and therapeutic products, as well as a formulator for several cannabis and hemp companies.  Joe founded "The Gardens of Hope" as a 501 (c)(3) organization in 2023 and has begun to bring horticultural therapy and education to those in need. In 2023, Joe launched the Healthy Living podcast to build a community focused on health in mind, body, and spirit. In October 2024, Joe was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and began a journey to live and solve this with the least damage. Joe discovered some powerful tools and is now in remission, avoiding surgery and radiation. He shares his story in the podcast and recently had his case study in PubMed. Joe has dedicated his life to helping others find their way to their best lives.

Http://thegardensofhope.org

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-healthy-living-by-willow-c-108166149/