The Cancer Trap: Starving Disease and The Science of Methionine Restriction

What if the very foods we consider "healthy" are actually fueling the growth of aggressive tumors? In this episode, Joe Grumbine returns to share the remarkable journey of how he navigated a Squamous Cell Carcinoma diagnosis—a "notoriously aggressive" cancer—and ended up as a case study in medical journals.

In this podcast, Joe pulls back the curtain on a revolutionary metabolic approach to cancer treatment that goes beyond simply "cutting out sugar." From a "Trojan Horse" therapy that tricks cancer cells into their own destruction to a rigorous dietary protocol that challenges everything we know about protein, this conversation explores how to turn your body into an inhospitable environment for disease.

What You’ll Discover in This Episode:

• The Methionine Addiction: Why cancer cells have a "high requirement" for this specific amino acid and how restricted intake can weaken even the most aggressive tumors.
• The "Trojan Horse" Strategy: Joe explains how using ozonated glycerin can lure cancer cells into consuming oxygen that destroys them from the inside out.
• Starving the Beast: The counterintuitive shift from a high-protein Keto diet to a fruit-and-starch-based protocol to stop feeding the disease.
• Enhancing the "Standard of Care": A specific fasting protocol that can significantly increase the effectiveness of chemotherapy while slashing debilitating side effects.
• Oxidative Therapies: How simple breathwork, ozone, and movement create an oxygen-rich environment that cancer cells simply cannot survive.
• The Power of Advocacy: How Joe connected with world-renowned research scientist Dr. Robert Hoffman to bridge the gap between clinical research and personal survival.

The information in this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not constitute medical advice or a substitute for professional consultation. Always seek the guidance of your physician or other qualified health provider before making any changes to your treatment plan. 

Connect with Joe: grumbinejoe@gmail.com

Join the Zoom group led by cancer researcher Dr Robert Hoffman on Sundays at 4pm PST to explore advances in the scientific basis of cancer treatment:

 https://us02web.zoom.us/j/87324682552?pwd=RlRJT0d5RktZNGNhcUdWa1ZTNHA3UT09

Meeting ID: 873 2468 2552

Passcode: 205492

Transcript

The Cancer Trap: Starving Disease & the Science of Methionine Restriction

                 Healer Within Podcast Transcript for Sunday, 1/25/2026

Hello and welcome back to Healer Within Podcast. This is your podcast Host, Amy Marohn of Sensorium Hypnosis and Critical Mindset Group. 

Today on Healer Within we will explore alternative healing interventions for cancer with guest and cancer survivor, Joe Grumbine founder of “Gardens of Hope.”

Joe founded "The Gardens of Hope" as a 501 (c)(3) organization in 2023 and has begun to bring horticultural therapy and education to those in need. In 2023, Joe launched the Healthy Living podcast to build a community focused on health in mind, body, and spirit. In October 2024, Joe was diagnosed with an aggressive cancer and began a journey to live and solve this with the least damage. Joe discovered some powerful tools and is now in remission, avoiding surgery and radiation. He shares his story in the podcast and recently had his case study in PubMed. Joe has dedicated his life to helping others find their way to their best lives.

Speaker 1 (00:02):

Welcome, Joe. Joe and I, we've done a, a podcast together in the past and I've invited Joe back to talk in greater depth about alternative ways to manage and treat cancer. And so first I want to say welcome Joe. Thanks for coming back.

Speaker 2 (00:23):

Oh, it's my pleasure, Amy. It's always great to sit and have a talk with you. Oh,

Speaker 1 (00:28):

Thank you. Well, Joe, we're just going to jump right in. I would love for you to share with our audience and, and listeners what kind of cancer you have and how you ended up in the medical journals.

Speaker 2 (00:45):

Yeah. Well what I have, or probably I would say had uhhuh <affirmative> is called Squamous Cell Carcinoma. And your body has squamous cells in various parts, including your lungs your skin. But it often shows up as a head and neck cancer. And that's what it did for me. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so I had a tumor in the back of my tongue, way in the back, down in my esophagus, and that ended up spreading over to the side of my neck where I ended up having this giant grapefruit sticking out of my neck after a while. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And squamous cell carcinoma is notoriously aggressive. It, it notoriously will mutate and spread and metastasize and come back after many treat different treatments. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It's a very difficult cancer to beat. It's maybe not as bad as pancreas cancer or some of the other ones, but it's definitely an adversary. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>.

Speaker 1 (01:54):

Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and Joe give us a little timeframe. You were diagnosed when,

Speaker 2 (02:02):

Well, so I'll try to, I'm getting better at turning this into bullet points 'cause it's a story, but it's a lot. Yeah. Almost three years ago, I noticed swelling in my neck. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I, I'm a guy who let the human body fix itself. Yeah. I'm a holistic guy. I let it be for a while. It, it continued to get bad. Eventually, I went and saw a doctor. Well, at the time I was in really great shape. And the doctor basically says, well, yeah, you got this lump in your neck, but you're so healthy, it's probably not cancer. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I was like, cool. That's what I wanted to hear. Yeah. So I just kept going and I says, I'll deal with it sooner or later. I'm not very vain. And I'm like, ah, I got a lump on my neck, so what? Right. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And eventually I kept growing and not getting better, and I went back to him and he is like, we need to do a scan.

Speaker 2 (02:53):

We did an ultrasound. It told us some things. I waited more. He kept saying, it's probably not cancer. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. You're so healthy. If it was cancer and it was this big, it would be consuming you. I'm like, cool. And eventually I got a an an MRI, which the result said possible squamous cell carcinoma. At that point, I got concerned. Mm-Hmm. Went back to him and he recommended I go see a ENT specialist. That specialist right off the bat said it, I'm pretty sure it is cancer. Oh my. Oh, crap. You know? Mm-Hmm. And the guy was a jerk on top of it. And so I was like, well, F you, you know? Yeah. You know, and, but he is like, well, we need to do a biopsy to figure it out. I was totally against biopsies because of all the things I've heard, you know, spreading this and that, but doing the research, I said, that's the only way they're going toknow for sure.

Speaker 2 (03:51):

So I let him do it, and they took a chunk out and a big enough chunk that they could be sure. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Two weeks later, I get the call, you have squamous cell carcinoma we need to get you to a oncologist. That's, that's where the journey began. So that was October 14th, 2024. Okay. That I was originally diagnosed, but I had already had the cancer for at least a good year, year and a half. That, that was already noticeable. So I'm dealing with something now for o over three years. Hmm. Shortly. So that's, that's when my whole life switched. You know, you get hit, you got information, and you're like, okay, I gotta process this. Yes. And then I learn about it, and then I gotta you know, so I started going to these doctors. I went to a surgeon. He's like, well, we're going tocome in and send a robot up your neck, and we're going togo and do all this stuff, but first we're going todo some chemo and radiation.

Speaker 2 (04:53):

I'm like, whoa, okay. And I go talk to the radiation doctor. He said, oh, you don't want to get a surgery? Are you just going to leave you deformed, but we're going togive you chemo radiation, and then we'll see where we're at. I'm like, oh, boy. Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I go to the chemo doctor, she says, yeah, I'm with the other guy. Meanwhile, I'm continuing to research and, you know, I'm on a mission. Now. I gotta solve this. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. In my research, I stumbled upon an article that was titled cancer's Addiction to Methionine. And I, I found that just remarkably interesting. I'm like, I never heard about that before. You know, you hear about glucose, you hear about, you know, keeping away from the sugars away from this and that. And I went, all of a sudden methionine, that's, that's an amino acid.

Speaker 2 (05:47):

What the heck is that? So I do some more research. There's published articles about this. I'm like, whoa, this is science. Okay. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Trying to find out that this guy named Dr. Robert Hoffman has done most of the research in the last 50 years, and he developed an enzyme called methionine aids that actually blocks methionine from your system. I was like, cool, I'll just go buy some of that on Amazon. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so I go look up Mease, and it, it led me back to Dr. Hoffman. He is the only guy in the world that makes it. Oh.

Speaker 1 (06:22):

And,

Speaker 2 (06:23):

And so I reached out to him. I says, Hey, I'd like to buy some Methionine aids,, you know, not knowing anything else about anything. I just like, this sounds like it could help. Maybe it won't, it couldn't hurt.

Speaker 1 (06:35):

Right.

Speaker 2 (06:37):

Right off the bat, he calls me back, or he sends me a message, here's my phone number. Gimme a call. I'm like, whoa. All right. I'm not used to, you know, this kind of treat, you know?

Speaker 1 (06:46):

Yeah. From a medical doctor.

Speaker 2 (06:48):

I call him up, he takes the answer. He is a research scientist. He's not a medical doctor. Oh,

Speaker 1 (06:52):

Got it.

Speaker 2 (06:53):

And, and he took my call right away. I told him about my situation. He says, wow, we need to get you, I need to get you some information. He sends me some information about a l methionine diet. He told me, he says, on Sundays at four o'clock, I have a zoom meeting. We have people from around the world that are sharing their information about their successes. I want to invite you. I says, great. I said, would you like to come on my podcast? And I'd love to you, you sound like a guy who knows a lot of stuff. Sure, no problem. And he's been a regular guest ever since. Well, I come onto the, their zoom call on Sunday, and there's people from around the world, doctors people that were diagnosed terminal years ago mm-hmm <affirmative>. And they have resolved or controlled their situation with a combination of a l methionine diet. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Methionine aids, and of various other regimens. And it might include some chemo, it might include some, some hormone therapy. It might include some, some, you know, immunotherapy therapy. But those are the standard of care elements. And then generally, it would include a lot of other things. The diet is paramount though.

Speaker 1 (08:19):

Let's talk about that. I'm wondering what foods have methionine and what you have to eliminate.

Speaker 2 (08:28):

It's a hard diet. Yeah. It's a, and, and that's the thing that keeps most people away from this. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Is the difficulty of the diet. So previously I had lost about 50 pounds. I was on a keto type diet mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I cut out all the sugar and the carbs out of my diet. I was eating a lot of protein. Well, it turns out methionine is an amino acid. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. It's one of the primary amino acids. There's 20 amino acids or so that make up every protein in your body. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And every protein that you eat. So it is found in protein mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I was doing the opposite of what I should have been doing. I was eating the most protein, eating Kansas sardines and, and salmon and chicken and meat and all this good quality meat, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I was feeding the cancer.

Speaker 2 (09:20):

Mm. And so it turns out, if you do the research and you start going onto PubMed, and you look at published science about methionine, that all cancer cells have a high requirement for methionine, which is just an amino acid. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Like lutein, creatine, all these other mm-hmm <affirmative>. All these other amino acids that we take as supplements regularly. Right. Yeah. And but cancer cells require a huge amount of methionine from an external food source. So your body is really good at recycling amino acids. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So your cells break down, your body goes through autophagy and removes old cells, takes 'em apart, recycles. Mm-Hmm. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, you know, so you've got protein, it just takes it apart, all the amino acids and then uses them for something else. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:17):

So

Speaker 2 (10:18):

Your body makes its own methionine, but the cancer wants it from a fresh food source mm-hmm. Regularly. And if it doesn't get it, it weakens it and it allows it, it doesn't allow the cancer cells to metabolize mm-hmm <affirmative>. And what, what people don't realize is that cancer cells are programmed to live mm-hmm

Speaker 1 (10:42):

<Affirmative>.

Speaker 2 (10:42):

And to divide and to mm-hmm <affirmative>. To grow mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so it'll, metabol cancer will metabolize whatever you're eating. People say, oh, you gotta cut the sugar out. Yeah, that's great. Cut the sugar out. What are you going to eat? Right. Well, guess what? Cancer will upregulate and start eating your fat. You want to do keto cancer will upregulate and start eating your ketones. It doesn't care. It'll do whatever you're doing. It is you.

Speaker 1 (11:10):

Yeah. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:12):

And, and,

Speaker 1 (11:12):

And yeah.

Speaker 2 (11:14):

So once you learn that, you go, oh, okay. So there's a chart that has foods that have high levels of methionine mm-hmm <affirmative>. Middle amounts and low amounts. And there's also another site that I have that, that shows the same thing. It is a tough diet.

Speaker 1 (11:34):

What do you eat? Tell, give us a sampling of day the life of Joe's nutrition plan.

Speaker 2 (11:42):

I eat mostly fruit in the morning. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I'll eat a lot of vegetables in the afternoon. Now, vegetables are great, but they don't have very many calories. Right.

Speaker 2 (11:53):

And so what what's really strange is I almost eat the opposite of what I did before. Yeah. 'cause I wasn't eating fruit before uhhuh, because it's full of fructose, which is a double sugar mm-hmm <affirmative>. And your body turns it into glucose, right? Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So doing all the stuff you don't want. Well, it turns out whole fruit with all the fiber and everything is actually one of the best fuel sources you can eat, because your body, it doesn't flood your body with sugar. Your body will, it, it, it, it consumes it at a, at a measured rate because of the fiber mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it, so you, you take in a bunch of fruit and your body will feed off of that for a while. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. When it comes to calories, you know, I'm out there working pretty hard in the farm. Yeah. And I gotta get calories. So sweet. Potatoes and potatoes have become my primary calorie source. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. The opposite of the keto diet. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:55):

Carbs. Well, guess what? If you're not eating a bunch of protein, and I don't eat any processed food. I don't eat any fast food. I, I don't eat any sugary foods except for, you know, a piece of birthday cake once in a great while. Yeah. It's his birthday, but that's about it, you know, uhhuh a lot of fruit until about two, three in the afternoon. And then I switch to vegetables. I do eat a little bit of beans. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. That's my primary source of protein. Yeah. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I will break. It's, it's essentially a vegan diet, but I'll break down and have an egg once in a while because I'm not going tobe a slave to it. Yeah. I love my eggs. We have chickens and they're just, eggs are such a super food, but I take this enzyme methionine is after I do take any protein in mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's expensive, but it blocks the methionine from being absorbed mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it works mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so you know, you try to, you think about removing protein from your diet, and the next thing you know, you're, you're essentially, you're not eating any meat. You're not eating any dairy. Yep. You're not eating even a lot of vegetables and fruits have methionine in them. Like you gotta, this chart is pretty rigorous. Wow. Legumes are tough beans, you know, limited amounts. It's a hard diet. It's just a

Speaker 1 (14:31):

Hard Joe. Yeah. I, I can only imagine. I've had to go on many extreme

Speaker 2 (14:36):

Oh yeah. You've got

Speaker 1 (14:37):

Plans due to my rare digestive disorder, but also my neuro immune condition. Mm-Hmm. So I know all about experimenting. Yeah. I, you know, know, I'm, I'm wondering, considering the nutrition plan you're on, are you able to get enough variety?

Speaker 2 (14:59):

You know, it's rough. I, I, I eat as a job mm-hmm <affirmative>. Now. Right. And I find joy as I can. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. The chemotherapy I took really ruined my taste and left a really bad taste in my mouth. It's slowly diminishing mm-hmm <affirmative>. And so I'm, I love beans and I love eggs, and I love potatoes. And I, so I find joy in the food that I eat. I love fruit. So I just, I just find ways to enjoy it. I eat a little rice, but rice has got more methionine than, than, than I should be eating. Sure. So I only eat a little bit. I eat a little sourdough bread. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:43):

You know, it's, it's simple, simple foods that you know, are just relatively low in methionine. It's really the key to it all. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:53):

Yeah. It is. Well, it, it, I, I noticed in, in my journey, and then just working with other people with chronic illness is like, you know, it, it, it's a real shift in mindset that you are, you know, instead of living to eat you Right. To live hundred percent. And, you know, you're absolutely right. You find joy in other things. Yeah. What, what I'm also wondering is what about hydration? What are you Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:23):

Critical.

Speaker 1 (16:24):

Yeah,

Speaker 2 (16:25):

Critical. Let's talk

Speaker 1 (16:25):

About that.

Speaker 2 (16:26):

Yeah. You know, it's, it's, it's funny. It is like my whole life turned into I need to stay alive. Yeah. And so I, I learned a lot about, you know, my physiology and the importance of things like hydration, so mm-hmm <affirmative>. I drink a lot of water. I drink green tea. I drink black coffee. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. I, I fast. Well, the problem is with this diet, you lose a lot of weight. Yeah. And so I lost too much weight. And, and it's, it's a balancing act. So if you lose too much weight, you start to absorb your own muscles mm-hmm <affirmative>. And then you release methionine and you become your own food. So you can't let yourself lose too much weight. Yeah. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So I, I, I'm very conscious of my weight. I'm very conscious of, of all that, but hydration is key and easy to solve.

Speaker 2 (17:19):

I've been dealing with some anemia because of all the chemo I did and all of that. And so I make we have lemon trees out here on the, on the farm mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I make hot lemonade with black strap molasses. I mix it in there. Hmm. And so I drink that regularly, A big old cup. And, and then you know, I just always, when when people drink, you don't, they do it wrong. Like they'll guzzle a 32 ounce glass of water, and it's just like, that's the dumbest thing you can do. You just overpower your kidneys and you, you fill your whole stomach full of water, and that messes with your stomach acid. I mean, just sit, walk all day, it's really easy. You just completely

Speaker 1 (18:04):

Yes. You know,

Speaker 2 (18:05):

Take a little bit, keep it with you. It's, it's

Speaker 1 (18:09):

Not a big Yeah. I get, I get that so much. My, my system can't hold too much of anything. Yeah. whether it's food or liquid. Right. And so it is about, I mean, it is a whole different mindset and approach of moderation and just being aware, well,

Speaker 2 (18:32):

It's a balance. You know, everything's a double edged sword. So, you know, if you don't get enough protein, then you can have anemia problems and, and Yeah. And if you get, if I get too much, well then it just says, cancer cells, go ahead. Have a, have a buffet. Yeah. And so you gotta balance it with water, you know you learn, you what, what you kind of learn is to listen to your body. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:03):

Yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:04):

You know, if you feel thirsty, your body's already dehydrated. Yeah. And so, you know, don't ever let yourself get thirsty. You know, it's a real simple thing, you know, pinch your skin, and if your skin doesn't pop right back, then you're dehydrated, drink a little more water. I mean, like, there's little simple tools and, you know, I, I'd say the diet is probably the most important factor. One of the key elements though, is that the things that we do, diet, oxygen, heat, all the other things that we do mm-hmm <affirmative>. They work in concert with, in my case, was chemotherapy. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and I found a combination of drugs that could knock this thing out. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And I think I showed you pictures, you know, the study has a whole photo display. And I had a giant grapefruit sticking out of my neck, and it's now gone. You can't even tell I had a tumor in my neck and I had no surgery. I had no, no invasive procedure, no radiation at all. So what happens is, is these other things we do, and the diet's probably the most important piece of it, they cause the standard of care treatment to work better.

Speaker 1 (20:22):

Yes. I want to talk about that. Yes. You talked about three things that people can do to diminish some of the side effects, right. Of what the, these western medicine interventions. Yes. But also things that you can do to stave off recurrent, you know the recurrent cancer.

Speaker 2 (20:49):

Absolutely. So, so fasting is integral in this mm-hmm <affirmative>. There's a, there's a, there's a, a protocol that, whether it's radiation or chemo, if you fast a water fast for 48 to 72 hours prior to taking the treatment, and 24 hours after it will enhance the value of the treatment significantly uhhuh and reduce the amount of side effects significantly. So that's for

Speaker 1 (21:22):

Chemotherapy.

Speaker 2 (21:24):

Chemo or radiation. Or

Speaker 1 (21:25):

Radiation,

Speaker 2 (21:26):

Yeah. And it's, it's, it's proven. There's science behind it. There's numerous studies that back that up. So the fasting protocol is integral. Aloe vera juice fresh cut, aloe. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And, and you take the leaves and you take off the, the bitter outer part and, and eat or, or, or juice up. The, the, the filet on the inside can reduce the amount of swelling and lesions that can be a results of these treatments. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Tremendously. And then oxidative therapy, this is huge. So any of the standard of care treatments besides immunotherapy, radiation, chemo, and some of the others are called oxidative therapies. So what ultimately they do is they oxidize the area of the cancer cells and around it, which causes them to die. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And just like rust, you know, you leave iron out in the sun and get it all wet and it oxidizes and starts breaking apart.

Speaker 2 (22:33):

Same thing happens. Cancer cells do not like oxygen. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So when you get oxygen in, in an oxygen rich environment around a tumor, in a tumor, it just starts destroying it. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so when you're doing chemo, that's what it is. It's oxidizing, oxidizing. When you get radiation, it's oxidizing, but you can also do things to enhance that. And so I do ozone therapy. Okay. There's a lot of different ways to consume ozone. I personally make an ozonated glycerin and I consume it orally. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. But you can do ence application. You can do, there's a lot of ways to get ozonated, and that's a whole nother conversation. But that's one way. I also would take food grade peroxide and either consume it, drinking it, which is horrible, tastes like bleach, but oxygen in you mm-hmm <affirmative>. Or I put it in my CPAP machine and nebulize it at about a 4% solution.

Speaker 2 (23:39):

I breathe it for about 20 minutes at a time. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And it, it, it increases the oxygen. So with the ozonated glycerin, it's a special trap. So glycerin is half of a glucose molecule. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And so when you take glycerin into your body, it floats around in your bloodstream. And the cancer's like, oh look, there's glycerin. Lemme go grab some of that. 'cause It looks like glycerin, but it's only half a glycerin mo. I, I mean, it looks like glucose, but it's only half a glucose molecule. So the cancer goes in and grabs it, it starts to metabolize it, and instead of it being glucose, there's an extra oxygen molecule and clam it, it's like a trap, like a Trojan horse. Oh,

Speaker 1 (24:25):

Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:26):

And so it, it lures it in and then, and then gets it, but meanwhile, your healthy cells thrive in an oxygen rich environment mm-hmm <affirmative>. So all it's doing is helping your brain, helping your organs, helping your gums and teeth, helping everything that wants oxygen mm-hmm <affirmative>. And attacking the cancer. So it's really important. Exercise is another Yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:51):

Important

Speaker 2 (24:52):

Way to increase the oxygen level, you know? Mm-Hmm. You get out there and do a vigorous workout, do some cardio, do go for a hike. Yep. Get your blood rate, your pulse rate going up and you're getting oxygen deep breathing exercises. Yeah. You know, do your box breathing mm-hmm <affirmative>. Breathe in deep as deep as you can, hold it for four seconds. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Breathe out for four seconds, hold it for four seconds out, and then breathe in for four seconds. Do that mm-hmm <affirmative>. Yeah. Each time. And you will increase the oxygen level. You can literally put an O2 sensor on your finger and watch it go up by doing that. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:29):

Yeah. It works well. And, and, and as you're talking, I, I've, I can't help but wonder how many of these approaches or holistic interventions could help people with other conditions.

Speaker 2 (25:49):

A hundred percent. Right.

Speaker 1 (25:51):

'Cause I have a neuro immune Yes. Condition. There's no cure. There's no western medicine treatment. Right. But I will tell you, even with chronic fatigue, yes. If I give into that too much and don't exercise Yeah. Boy, it makes my situation 10 times worse. Yes. And, and I'm with you. We've gotta be so connected to our intuitive mind Yes. And really have a strong mind, body connection to understand our own individual response to certain other interventions. It's

Speaker 2 (26:29):

Paramount.

Speaker 1 (26:31):

So it's amazing. Joe, there is a question I wanted to ask you. It's a little bit off this track, but it, it's tapping in or picking up from our last conversation that we had last week about immunotherapy. Yes. For I I, and, and that is something that I had never heard of, and when I've talked to my inner circle, who may have had cancer, knows a lot about cancer, no one seemed to have heard about this. Yeah. So can you give us maybe a two minute explanation? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:06):

What that is, I'm taking, I'm taking a drug called Keytruda mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's, it's a drug that basically you take it as a, as a infusion. So I have a port, they stick it in my port, or otherwise it'd be intravenous. And it basically goes in and stimulates your body's immune system. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Which is MK cells, T cells, you know, your, your, your body's cells that are designed to go and attack problems mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it causes them to recognize the cancer cells. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So cancer has cloaking devices, and it's designed to not be seen by your immune system mm-hmm <affirmative>. Because if your immune system saw it, it would just attack it and say, Hey, you don't belong here. So this, and there's a number of different immunotherapy drugs, and they're fairly new into the thing. And there's even a viral therapy that I heard about.

Speaker 1 (28:04):

Yes. Was it the Sina?

Speaker 2 (28:07):

Yes.

Speaker 1 (28:08):

Viral been

Speaker 2 (28:09):

On for 50 years and nobody knows about it. Yeah. But they're, they're using it successfully. But, but yeah. This, I'm on this immunotherapy drug. I've had I think five five infusions, four or five. And there's no side effects that I can tell thus far. And it, the idea is it is potentially a maintenance program that will cause my body to recognize these mutated cells. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Because we all have cancer cells floating around our body mm-hmm <affirmative>. And if they don't get an environment to land in, then you live the rest of your life, no problem. Yeah. But they get an opportunity to start growing and, and spreading. That's when you start having a problem. So if your own immune system says, oh, just like a lung infection or a sinus infection or, or a, a, you know, a foreign body, you get a splinter and you get a little, little festering mm-hmm <affirmative>. That's your immune system working. Yeah. And your body can go after the cancer just the same way it would with a simple sinus infection. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Go after it, attack it, get rid of it, and then you don't have it. So that's the idea

Speaker 1 (29:28):

That, that's exciting. Joe, your case was written up in PubMed.

Speaker 2 (29:33):

Yes. That's exciting. So, working with Dr. Hoffman, and again, he's a researcher. He's been in the field for 50 years. He's a PhD. He's taught medical schools. He's, he's, this guy's been around forever. He is like 82 years old. We're good friends. I go to his lab in San Diego, Uhhuh after a treatment sometimes, and we'd just hang out and go have lunch. Yeah. Anyways, he was instrumental in guiding me as we're discovering, figuring these drugs out, even helping me find this oncologist that I'm working with now. And the treatment that I did was so effective. Literally every week I was going onto this meeting, you know, with all these people, and they're looking at my neck going, holy cow. It's smaller than it was last week. It's smaller. It's small. What do you, you know? Yeah. It was even the oncologist was like, oh my God.

Speaker 2 (30:30):

So we documented everything we did along the way mm-hmm <affirmative>. Including the diet, the methionine aids, the oxygen therapy. And we didn't get into all the things I did because it's hard to say what's do and what Yeah. Completely know. We know that the diet was critical in this. And, and so that was the primary focus. And then we did the chemo along with it. So the, he has a whole team of doctors that work in his lab, and basically, I gave the narration and I gave him all the photos of, I literally took a picture for, I don't know, 50 days mm-hmm <affirmative>. As it was getting worse. And then as it was getting better every day, I took a picture. So there's a whole documentation. They drew it up, they wrote, they wrote the thing, they submitted it to PubMed, it got turned back.

Speaker 2 (31:22):

They had to, we had to do a few edits, and then it got submitted again. They, it's a peer reviewed, it was published in a cancer journal, and then that's what was submitted to PubMed. And it got published in November mm-hmm <affirmative>. And it's, it's there for everybody to see. Incredible. And it, it, it tells the story of my protocols, these protocols that I use mm-hmm <affirmative>. Along with a standard of care, chemo treatment, and having a result that was far beyond what anybody's expectations was. And potentially, today I'm cancer free. I'm going tofind out. I'm, I'm actually in a, in an hour I'm going tobe heading off to an ENT to go over my my scan results. And, you know, we're we're, it's so exciting. And it is, I just, I I just want to help people. I want to share this within with everybody. And like you said, these protocols and adding to it sleep, you gotta get a good night's sleep every Yes. But if you do all these things, it doesn't matter what you're battling, your body will perform better. Yeah. And it will likely reduce the severity of any ailment or disease that you're dealing with mm-hmm <affirmative>. And will likely cause your body to restore, recover or, or reverse these things. Yep. And just that way,

Speaker 1 (32:56):

Oh, Joe, your story is amazing. Blows my mind. I get so excited when we connect and we have these really deep engaging conversations because like me, you are, you know, you have a fire in your belly for helping people Yeah. Be able to, you know, manifest optimal health. And so Joe, I I want to put in the show notes some great links. What, how can people learn more, connect with you? Maybe get in on these Zoom conversations with Dr. Robert Hoffman. Like what can we share in the show notes that will help people expand their repertoire of tools and resources if they are battling cancer or if they have someone close to them

Speaker 2 (33:53):

Who is, I would say the, the, the link that I gave you to the the zoom call. Okay. You could add that. And, and every Sunday at 4:00 PM Pacific time, four to six, it's a two hour call. Anybody's welcome. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. Just come on in and, and introduce yourself and, and you can be anonymous, you can share whatever, it doesn't matter. Is

Speaker 1 (34:17):

It more of a support group? Do research scientists and doctors share

Speaker 2 (34:21):

It? It's all of it. Uhhuh <affirmative> there, there's a number of physicians that are present. Dr. Hoffman's always there. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. A a lot of physicians that have been undergoing cancer themselves, and many people that were diagnosed terminal many years ago and are still here. Wow. And, and the thing that we all have in common is the low methionine diet with the methionine. And then everybody else has other things that they share. Many researchers. There's a doctor <inaudible> who's a retired surgeon. He's was diagnosed terminal, I think four years ago. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And he is still here. And he's, he shares his story. This guy's brilliant. Yeah. This guy makes me seem like a dullard and just knows so much about everything. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. And a number, there's Dr. Fox. There's a, I mean, we talk about vitamin C infusions, we talk about immunotherapy treatments.

Speaker 2 (35:29):

We talk about hormone therapy treatments. We talk about you know, exercise with oxygen, all sorts of oxidative treatments. I mean, everybody shares their stories. Yeah. And new developing research that comes out. It's really, there's nothing like this anywhere. It's amazing. So that, that's, it's amazing. The first stop. And then the second is my Healthy Living podcast, if you want to share that. I do. I have probably 30 episodes where I detail my journey from diagnosis to where I am. And Dr. Hoffman joins me regularly, Uhhuh. And we are always talking about research and my case and, you know, other people's stories. And again, this guy's just a wealth of in information. This guy, he spends his whole life researching and he just, you know, amazing. Those are the two BA best resources. I'm available. I'm here to help people. Sure. I

Speaker 1 (36:33):

<Crosstalk> can they connect with you through your website, Joe?

Speaker 2 (36:37):

You know, <crosstalk>

Speaker 1 (36:38):

Hope, or is there another place?

Speaker 2 (36:40):

I don't really have, I mean, my, my Gardens of Hope website is more for the nonprofit. Sure. I don't, I have a website for me that I haven't done anything with. I can give you my, my phone number. I can give you my email.

Speaker 1 (36:53):

I'll drop it, I'll drop it in the show notes, whatever. Yeah, yeah. However people can reach you. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:58):

Yeah. Put my email in there. That's probably the best way. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:01):

Email ab. Absolutely. Yeah. I, this has been an amazing interview and conversation about cancer. I know too. I mean, when we spoke last week, I'm, I couldn't write fast enough. <Laugh>. So I, I know you and I are scratching the surface, but I also know when I play this back it will stimulate more ideas for great conversations. And Abso one is even just, this would be another podcast talking about imaging. Yes. Because, you know, I, I shared it. You, I have a close friend who has a very rare form of cancer, and his question is like you know, what kind of imaging or tools can be used for early, early detection? And so that's a whole nother,

Speaker 2 (37:56):

That's a huge conversation. And there's a number of blood tests that are emerging. There's new imaging techniques, actually goes approached by an imaging company that has some new cutting edge stuff. They want to be a guest on my podcast. So

Speaker 1 (38:11):

Amazing.

Speaker 2 (38:12):

Always new things happening. And I would love to talk about that. 'cause That's critical, you know? Yeah. If you think you got something that's not right, don't let it sit and wait. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (38:25):

It's interesting. I've heard a number of people with swelling and lumps in their throat and neck who just, you know, either the doctor dismissed it or, you know, they're like, I'm healthy. You know what? Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (38:39):

They call it a goiter or something. And I'm like, that's what I thought. Yeah. I the same thing. And then, then, you know, don't mess around.

Speaker 1 (38:48):

Absolutely. Because, you know, two or three months time goes by of a quickly metastasizing cancer. The, those are critical moments.

Speaker 2 (39:00):

If, if you do the research and you see it, the rate that cancer can grow. Mm-Hmm. And by the time you notice it, it's already huge.

Speaker 1 (39:09):

It's, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (39:11):

It's already huge. Hundreds

Speaker 1 (39:13):

Now we've gotta be aggress.

Speaker 2 (39:15):

Yes, absolutely. So yeah, it, it, it's, detection is key. That's going tobe the, the key to more people surviving and, and overcoming is catching it early. Yeah,

Speaker 1 (39:29):

Absolutely. Joe, I have absolutely loved our time as always. You are an incredible resource for all of us and an incredible lightworker very passionate about helping others in their journey. So thank you so much, Joe.

Speaker 2 (39:52):

Oh, it's my

Speaker 1 (39:53):

Pleasure for having time with us. And you and I, I know we're going tosee more of each other.

Speaker 2 (39:57):

<Laugh>. I am looking forward to it, Amy. Oh,

Speaker 1 (39:59):

Have a great day.

Speaker 2 (40:00):

All right, you too. We'll see you next time. Okay.