Pamela Jean Noble

In the Season 5 premiere, Terry engages in a conversation with Pamela Jean Noble, a model, actress, and entrepreneur.  Pamela reflects on her journey from childhood to the present, discussing her experience as a child actress and the impact of her parents' divorce, which led her to seek attention from men.  She delves into her foray into modeling, expressing how despite numerous exciting experiences, the industry left her feeling unfulfilled.  Pamela's life takes a transformative turn after meeting her husband on Bravo's "Below Deck" and embracing Christianity during her pregnancy.  Although this decision seemed to jeopardize her career, Pamela shares how her current projects bring her greater fulfillment.

Follow Pamela:
-Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/pamelajeannoble/
-Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/PamelaJeanNoble
-Website: https://pamelajeannoble.com/

Turning Point:
-https://www.tpusa.com/

Love Life:
-https://lovelife.org/

Gems for Gems"
-https://www.gemsforgems.com/

Follow Terry:

• Website: https://www.twtpodcast.com/
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/twterrypod/
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/people/Testimonies-with-Terry/100073115536609/
• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN5ufX6jA0mEkBNKauvOVAQ
• TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@twterrypod?lang=en

Transcript

Pamela Jean Noble Audio

[00:00:00] Terry: All right, guys. Well, I am here with mom, model, wife, actress, and entrepreneur, Pamela Jean Noble. Pamela, thank you so

much for coming on the show. 

[00:00:11] Pamela: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited.

[00:00:13] Terry: Yeah, it took a little bit for us to connect our schedules here, but, uh, God's timing is perfect. And, uh, I, I gotta say, I, I really don't know a whole lot about you. I interviewed Lindsey Graham, Patriot Barbie last season, and, uh, I saw that she was coming out with the Pretty Little Patriot, clothing line with you and Kendall.

And when I saw that the Holy Spirit just really put it on my heart to reach out to you. And like I said, I don't know a whole lot about you or your story, but I'm just being obedient to the Holy Spirit. And obviously since then I've, I've dug in and. I heard a little bit of your story and, uh, it's, it's amazing what God has been doing in you and your husband in the, in these last few years, especially.

So I'm excited to really dig in here and, and hear the full

story. 

[00:00:59] Pamela: Yeah, no, [00:01:00] it's, uh, been quite a few interesting years. That's for sure. Um, but where would you like me to start? Childhood? What are you thinking?

[00:01:09] Terry: Yeah. Let's, let's go all the way back to the beginning. So tell us a little bit, , Pamela about where did you grow up? What was family life like for you as

you were growing up? 

[00:01:17] Pamela: Yeah, so, um, I grew up in Fontana, California. Everybody thinks it's Montana. It's Fontana. Um, but Fontana, California, um, I started Acting basically at a really young age. I think I was five when I was cast on my first television show. Um, and then went on to doing other things, but, um, I always went to a private Christian school in orange County, um, from kindergarten to eighth grade.

Um, however, my parents weren't like. Church goers on Sundays. It was, you know, take my sister and I to this private Christian school on Monday through Friday, and then nothing was really [00:02:00] instilled in us at home. So, to say the least, I feel like when I went to public school in high school, things. I drifted pretty far because there was nothing that had anchored me that entire time, especially when it's not like instilled in your home life, um, to be on a straight path or anything like that.

Um, and then the acting and entertainment industry does not help at all with any of, uh, keeping you in line either. But, um, yeah. So, I mean, I had a great childhood with my parents besides them getting a divorce. They were amazing to me. They supported all my dreams, all of that. But it's, um, I always tell people that I pray that I am what my parents were not to me in Aiden's life.

So that way he, you know, knows like we pray before bed, we go to church on Sundays, all those things that, you know, didn't quite happen with me.

[00:02:59] Terry: Yeah. It sounds [00:03:00] like you're really trying to set a firm and solid foundation for him from day

one, essentially, 

[00:03:06] Pamela: Mm hmm. As best we can.

[00:03:09] Terry: Pamela, how did you get into acting as a kid?

[00:03:13] Pamela: Yeah. So, um, I was in a talent show. Oh, I actually had always told my parents, like I'm the one who like pointed at the TV saying like, I wanted to do this. Um, but I was in a talent show that I won, um, and I ended up like singing on a cruise line. Um, and then I don't even honestly, cause it was, I was so young, don't know, remember how, but I was on some program, um, that was kind of like a talk show sort of thing.

And I. Did apparently really well on that, whatever, you know, I don't remember everything, but I remember being on it and like walking on stage, um, say no fear or insecurities when I was that young, but, um, that it kind of just spiraled from there. So, I, you know, had an agent and different things. Um, I [00:04:00] never.

Probably got to where I could have been success wise only because I always went to regular school and you can only miss so much school. Most kids get like taken out for either homeschool or GED. And I just felt like there's a lot of things that you miss out on when you do that and that you don't really realize the real world when you do that.

So I always went to regular school. Um, and yeah, I did acting all the way and singing all the way up till, um, about eight. And then, um, I worked on a music video where a makeup artist saw me and, uh, or I should say she took a picture of me working on this music video and she had it in her portfolio and people are always asking her about me.

And I had never modeled. I think I had tried to get an agent and they had always said like, you're too short, you're not skinny enough, all the things you're too curvy. Um, and she said like, people are always asking about you. So can I set up your first shoot? [00:05:00] So she did like, she set up the hair, the makeup, the photographer, the wardrobe, like everything did an amazing shoot with me.

And then the next thing that I got modeling was for surf illustrated with your listeners may or may not know, but I was like, with the same month of Holly Madison, which was the playboy bunny. So at the time. Not great, but it was a big deal at the time. Um, so yeah, and then that just kind of went on from there for modeling and acting.

I was on fuel TV for like 3 years and then I met my husband through a reality show. So, um, yeah, it's been. Crazy. I can't even, I don't think I can even put into one episode everything that's happened in my life. But I'm, I'm grateful for a lot of the experiences that I got to do that I probably would have never been able to do.

But at the same time, I think I look back and I have a lot of regrets all at the same time.

[00:05:54] Terry: Okay. Yeah. What, what are some of those regrets?

[00:05:57] Pamela: Um, so I think just like [00:06:00] the bikini modeling and stuff, now that I have, you know, a little boy that, um, is going to look back and see. I mean, you can Google mommy and it's going to come up. So I think that's the big one. And I think no matter how far I get on my journey with Christ or like what I'm doing now with organizations that is actually like making a huge impact, it's like, it can never escape me.

I mean, I went on a show at the blaze and then they ended up bringing up my bikini pictures like on the blaze. And I just wanted it to be like, That's like 10 years ago. Like we don't need to keep doing this anymore. But you know, I, it is what it is. It's not going to leave my past, but I feel like at some point it would be nice if it's like, well, she did do that.

But look at what she's doing now. And it's so much better.

[00:06:46] Terry: Yeah. No, no. And I, I honestly, as you're, as you just said that Pamela, I honestly believe that will be the case, uh, as you know, you're, you're a couple of years into your walk with, with the Lord. Uh, , that I've, you know, saw on social media. And so [00:07:00] relatively young, but I firmly believe like you said, Pamela, that , as you just continue on , with your faith and with all these business ventures that you have that you're not going to be known for, yeah, .

The model, the, the bikini model, all that stuff. You're going to be known for what you're doing now. I really do believe that not just saying that to make you feel better. I really feel the Lord in

that.

[00:07:19] Pamela: Thank you. I appreciate that.

[00:07:21] Terry: Yeah. Yeah. Let's kind of go back to the childhood a little bit here, Pamela. So you, you did acting. What was that like balancing acting with school? Like you said, you did, you know, just kind of normal everyday school. You didn't do any specialized stuff , to do more of the acting stuff. So what was that like balancing the

two? 

[00:07:40] Pamela: Yeah, I don't think it was as hard. balancing them because I always had good grades. I never like let my grades fall. Um, I did have at least once where a teacher was like, she's missed so much school. Like we're going to hold her back. And my dad fought tooth and nail to me with the principal. Like she has good grades.

You're not holding her back just because she missed, you know, [00:08:00] classes. Um, but a lot of times I would be like in the middle of class and then I would get a call or somebody to call my teacher and I would have an audition. And so my dad would be like pulling me out of school. So, um, I never really got, I always like to say, I never really got like the traditional childhood where it's like, you went to school, you came home, you played for a certain amount of hours to like dinner or whatever.

Um, I feel like I wasn't going to audition. I was going to an acting class or a singing class or whatever it may be. And those are all in LA. So, you know, you're driving an hour every single time. Um, and, you know, thank goodness. Once again, my dad was fully invested in my career and knew that this is what I wanted to do.

So he took me to everything and like took time off whenever he needed to. , but so it wasn't so much the balance of it. I think where I struggled the most was if I was in school in L. A., this would be a normal thing, right? Like nobody would be even questioning what I was doing. [00:09:00] But since I went to school in Orange County and then Fontana.

It was like, it was something that was made fun of, you know, or if I went on an audition and I didn't get it, , kids would be mean to me because it's like, I didn't get it. And it's like, well, yeah, but there's like 300 people going out for that same role. Like, if I even get a call back in the industry, you're like, I got a call back.

This is awesome. Um, And I had like an amazing callback ratio. , so it was just one of those things. I think that's really hard. And I think that's why, as I got older, I had more insecurities, which looking back now, I think that's what led me to modeling because it led people to give me all these compliments and different things and why I think I stayed in it for so long.

But I think that was probably the hardest part of the child was when other children would be like, mean to you. And it's like, okay, I'm going after my dreams at a young age and you're not doing anything. And I'm getting made fun of for it. You know, it's like, it was just a really hard mind thing as a child to deal with.

[00:09:58] Terry: yeah, for sure. And that led [00:10:00] me to thinking like, how did that affect friendships for you throughout your childhood? Like the picture I'm getting is that you're kind of a little bit of the outsider within your school. You know, you're the one doing, you know, kind of the Hollywood life or trying to get to that Hollywood life and everyone is, you know, making fun of you and, and that's just not their lifestyle.

So what was that like trying to, , not just make friendships, but keep friendships throughout

your childhood? 

[00:10:24] Pamela: Yeah. I mean, I always had like, you know, that close one to three, I guess probably would be a good range of close friends. Um, I think it was also hard because once again, I was in Fontana going to school in Orange County. So think of like when the show, the OC came out and it was like the guy from the Inland Empire.

So that was literally me. And like when that show came out and I remember that show came out, I was like, this is my life because it was like, I was lower class because I didn't live in Orange County, but like, we had a way bigger house than anybody in Orange County because of. Also, um, so [00:11:00] yeah, it was just, it was such an odd thing as a child to deal with.

And that's something like, I pray I can teach my child, like, let's be kind, let's, you know, we don't know anybody's circumstances of what they're going through at home. I mean, once again, I kid, same thing. I was at a Christian school. My parents are going through a divorce, totally not acceptable back then.

It wasn't like one of those things where. Now people get a divorce and it's like, Oh, okay. You know, no big deal. I mean, this is 20 years ago when it was still like, Oh, your parents are getting divorced. So I even like hid that for like a year. And I remember one day, like who knows what happened, but somebody was like giving me a hard time.

And I literally like slammed my head from the desk. I think I was like 12. It was like super dramatic, but I like slammed my head. I was like, my parents are getting divorced. Just leave me alone. Like a rant to the bathroom and it was like crying in the bathroom, but. Um, keep in mind this private Christian school, there's like, I think we had a total of like 20 or maybe 25 [00:12:00] graduating class eighth grade.

So this isn't like 500 kids or anything like the same kids from kindergarten almost went to eighth grade. So, you know, you know. Everything about everybody and this isn't, I mean, public school rumors fly, but like, this is very much rumors by, you know, who's they even in private Christian school, who's dated who all the different things and, um, it just felt like.

I didn't have like a safe place, whether it was like the fact that I didn't live there or the fact that I, my parents were getting divorced or the fact that I wanted to acting, it just didn't feel like I had a safe place of who to talk to besides like my parents of like, who would understand. You know what I'm trying to do or what I'm going for.

It just seemed like, you know, because I was different, that wasn't okay. And it wasn't even like I was that different. It was just didn't live there. Parents, unfortunately couldn't make it work. And, um, and then trying [00:13:00] to work way sooner than most people. Cause at the end of the day, it was work. It's not like it was all fun 24, seven.

Um, but yeah, I think that was. Probably like the most difficult was not feeling like there was anybody I could talk to or relate to, unless it was somebody in acting school, which probably still wouldn't have completely got it. Cause if they're living in LA, they're doing it the way that, you know, 90 percent of the people do it.

[00:13:26] Terry: Right. Right. So then what did that look like for you, Pamela? You know, you're saying that you're going through all these emotions and you said you were like 12 years old at this was happening. So we know, you know, the puberty bug is hitting, you know, in addition to all this stuff too, I'm sure. So you got a lot going on, a lot of heavy feelings, not really a whole lot of people to talk to.

What did you do with those feelings?

[00:13:50] Pamela: Um, I don't think I did anything really. I think I cried a decent amount, especially when it came to my parents divorce. Um, [00:14:00] And I think I just held a lot in and I think when, you know, I was, went to public high school and I started to get to an age where, I mean, I don't think my parents wanted me to date, but I could date.

Um, I think that's kind of where I like tried to get like my attention and acceptance and like, you know, I would have a boyfriend think it was so cool what I did or, you know, whatever. Um, and I think that's where I like tried to get some of it because. It just seemed like no matter what I did, it wasn't kind of good enough.

Um, whether it was like a kid, you know, I didn't get the role or if it was. My parents, I, I say this all the time, my, my mom, um, the first time I heard her say I'm proud of you was when I graduated high school and I like bawled my eyes out. You haven't gotten it yet. I cry a lot. I'm an emotional person. Um, but I bawled my eyes out and she's like, why are you crying?

And I said, because you never said that to me before. And, um, she was like, cause you always knew what needed to be done [00:15:00] and you did it. And so it was like, just because I knew, and I was like a good listener and a good kid, it was never told to me. Like, I'm so proud of you. And so that was like, one of those things was really, it was amazing to hear, but it was also difficult where I try to tell my son all the time, like, I'm so proud of you, that's amazing, different things like that, because.

I think there was a lot of parts of me that just wanted to feel like I was accepted and I was a, you know, a good child and, you know, doing things like that were so cool that, you know, some kids don't get to do or won't ever do. Um, and so I think a lot of my life has been Acceptance because I'm such a rule follower and I try to do everything the right way that I want to just hear that I'm doing a good job because most people will be like, well, you're always doing a good job.

But I want to hear it 

[00:15:51] Terry: Right. 

[00:15:52] Pamela: just because you do it all the time. Does it mean like you, I don't know. So, um, I think I went way off topic of that question, but [00:16:00] I think that was a lot of, um, leading to like boyfriends and stuff like that was where acceptance. Bye. Transcribed by https: otter. ai

[00:16:08] Terry: Sure, sure. That makes sense. I, I'm curious, you mentioned that when you were doing a lot of these auditions, it was always dad that was, taking you to and from, and I'm kind of getting the sense that you were maybe closer with dad than, than mom. Is, is that how it was

for you? 

[00:16:25] Pamela: Yeah, I mean, my dad, um, I was always with him for that matter. Um, but then I think I was very mad at my mom for a while after the divorce because it was very much her who wanted it. Um, I hear conflicting stories all the time. I'm never going to have a straight story of anything that happened in the relationship, but it sounds like my dad wanted to make it work.

Um, and, and she was always working. So it's not like I had, you know, I have an hour commute to school. The amount of time of school, then most of the time, if I didn't have an audition, I'm [00:17:00] working, I'm either at my dad's shop or, you know, in LA for an acting class till seven or eight. So it's not like I had all this time with my mom.

Um, and it's still something we like struggle with. Like we're, we're very close now, but I feel like we still struggle with it because like my mom's retired. She doesn't need to work. Um, and I tell her all the time, like she'll, she still works though. I'm like, you're supposed to work to live, not live to work.

And like, you're missing out on so many opportunities because you're so worried about missing a day of work that you don't even need to do. And I think that's where, you know, me staying home with my son now and doing things to try to make money, but like spend all this time with him is something I'm very passionate about because I don't think I had that time with my mom when I was little to really.

Like, I feel like we've always, we were always close, but I don't remember like tons of memories growing up the same way as I do my dad.

[00:17:57] Terry: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. It sounds like, [00:18:00] uh, especially for mom, you were really looking for that, like validation, you know, like, like you said, like you knew, and she knew that you were doing what you were supposed to do, but man, it's still kind of nice to be told, , Hey, I'm proud of you or Hey, good job.

So it sounds like. You were really looking for that validation, that affirmation, I guess, if you will. And so you mentioned that, you know, come high school, you started dating and you were starting to get that from, from boyfriends, , , that you were dating at that time. What was that like, you know, here you are again, just kind of getting the picture, just like, Oh my gosh, please.

Someone just like, tell me I'm. You're proud of me. Tell, tell me I'm doing a good job. Um, what was that like to finally get that in the context of a boyfriend relationships?

[00:18:44] Pamela: I had boyfriends. I didn't say I chose the right one. So that's one thing. Um, but I mean, I definitely got attention, which I think is what I was like, for sure seeking under all of it was like wanting the attention. Um, I chose [00:19:00] awful for like, Up until my husband pretty much, um, I either chose people who like cheated on me or who were like, you know, verbally, physically abusive.

Um, I had one boyfriend who was trying to be famous as well, and he was like the biggest narcissistic sociopath ever. Um, and I've been in like physically abusive relationships. So I definitely didn't choose like healthy ones, but I got the attention. In between, you know, when things weren't going bad, um, I would say he was like my first longterm boyfriend, um, in high school, we were like on and off forever.

, probably until right before eight months before I even met my husband. Um, but I, we probably had the best relationship, but there was still things that were like, not good. Like, you know, he cheated on me in the very beginning, but I don't know if he cheated on me towards like the ends when we would be in.

Be together in between other [00:20:00] boyfriends or girlfriends, but, um, where there was still always something, it seemed like with whoever I chose, that was just like, not very smart. Um, but I think that goes back to when you're craving attention, , you kind of want it from anywhere. And, um, When you're that, I don't want to say desperate, but I think when you're that, like, you're, you're seeking it so much, you're willing to look past a lot of red flags and you, or you're like, so sweet talked in the beginning that you're like, oh, this is amazing, you know, and then things go awry and you just kind of like, go with the wind instead of being like, hold on, this is not very healthy.

Um, so I think I had, yeah. You know, tons of that throughout my life up until me and my husband, because I didn't meet my husband until I was 26. So I was still quite a few, almost 11 years of dating. Um, so yeah, that's, uh, that's an interesting one to break down.

[00:20:56] Terry: Yeah. I was, I was going to ask like, you know, [00:21:00] doing reflective work, have you been able to kind of like figure out what was the pattern there of, you know, , why did you get into these relationships with these kinds of guys? And it sounds like you already kind of answered that question of just, They, they gave me attention and, you know, again, working as a marriage and family therapist, a lot of those kinds of people, , those guys that you were with are very good at that love bombing at the beginning, right.

And just really laying it on thick. And then afterwards their true colors come out and it can really just mess with your mind and it really makes it difficult to leave. And I, I'm, it sounds like that's a lot with, uh, what you were dealing with in those relationships.

[00:21:36] Pamela: Yeah, I think especially one of my last relationships before my husband, um, he like had, I mean, all the, once again, all the signs where I can look back now and hopefully I have a daughter one day where I can be looking for them, but like really, , separated me from my friends, kind of my family too, for like, you know, a couple of years.

I would still see my family, but not to the extent as I would, , like [00:22:00] before him, um, and he was like verbally and physically abusive. And so I remember. Even when I was in it, it was like, well, I can't tell anybody this is going on because I'm going to be judged. And then like, if we break up or get back together, then like, you know, nobody's going to take me seriously.

Like it was just all these like mental things going on. But I finally realized towards the end, it got really bad actually one night. Um. Um, my sister and I lived on the same block. I ran to her house, , because he had a gun and it was held in my head at one point. And so I don't remember if I called her, ran to her house, whatever.

At the end of the day, she came over with her boyfriend and my sister's not emotional. She's like the complete opposite of me. And she saw what was going on. I had a huge bruise where I had been pushed. , and I had, I told her that he had held a gun to my head and, um, she was crying, hugging me, saying.

That she was afraid to leave because if she left, she [00:23:00] didn't think she would have a sister in the morning. And that was hard for me to hear because my sister, once again, it's not like that. And, you know, for her to even show emotions or like say emotions, you're like, Oh, you do love me. That's so sweet. Um, so I, that was a big moment for me to realize like, what am I doing?

You know, like, not only could I hurt myself from being in this. But her, my family members and different things. And I, I finally, it finally clicked kind of like the mind games that he was playing with me because he would constantly threaten breaking up, but he would say like, well, you just break up with me then, like, just break up with me if you don't want to be together.

And I realized, I was like, he wants me to break up with him so he can play the victim so he can go around everybody saying like, well, she broke up with me. And I, I finally realized it. And so. , I started doing it back to him because I was like, no way am I going to be turned around to be the bad person after like the two years of baloney that I just [00:24:00] dealt with.

Um, so I, I think I finally said, I'm like, well, if I'm such a, you know, a B and I'm so miserable to be with, and you've had so much better than breakup with me. And I don't remember if he did or didn't, but anyways, at the end of the day, it finally worked. And, um, And the big thing was, is, you know, if we said we were breaking up, well, we live together, so it was very easy for him to get back in and, um, I made him leave the house.

It was my house. I mean, it really was. It was my house. So I was like, get out. It's my house. Um, and you can come back and get your stuff. And I think I put everything in the garage. So that way he couldn't come back in because it was the same thing. It was me realizing what had happened all these years.

And it was like, if you can't come in the house, there's less time for him to talk to me. And then when it was time for him to pick up his stuff, I made my sister's boyfriend be at the house. Um, because he constantly said I was cheating on him all these different things during our relationship. So it was funny because once again, he was trying to like, we're not even together, but using his.

tactics on me. So he drove [00:25:00] by, saw a guy, calls me, he's like, you have another guy at the house. I'm like, first of all, not together. Second of all, it's my sister's boyfriend. So if you think I'm hooking up with my sister's boyfriend, there's something wrong with you. Um, but yeah, and that was kind of like the final way that I.

Was able to end things was, , kind of seeing everything that had occurred and then trying to make sure that it couldn't happen again, and like literally shielding myself from the ways that it could. But it was crazy because like how you say you. No, many people have gone through this. I was such a shell of a person.

Like people always say they see me now and they think I'm so confident and I'm so this, and it was like, when we broke up, I had no confidence because for two years I was told I was a B, I wasn't even pretty. I like the worst he's ever had, like all the worst things that you could like say to a woman. And so I was just like finding myself again and finding what makes me happy and on [00:26:00] everything that, um, That I, I didn't have, I didn't even know what any of the answers were to my own questions.

[00:26:07] Terry: Yeah. Wow. Pamela, thank you so much for being raw and invulnerable there. I know that there's women listening to this that are going to be blessed , by hearing you, , just open up about your story, that they can relate to it. And, you know, it gives them hope that you can leave, that you can get out of that situation.

And I'm so sorry that. You, you had to go through all that, but I'm so thankful that, you know, God has blessed you with an amazing husband now. And we'll definitely get to that part of your story. But before we do, I want to back up a little bit here. So you graduate high school. Did you have any idea of what you wanted to do after that?

Like, did you want to pursue college? Did you want to continue on with acting? What did that look like

for you? 

[00:26:49] Pamela: Yeah. So I definitely wanted to do acting and singing. That wasn't an option though. My mom basically said, like, if you're living at home, you're going to college. And I was like, well, this stinks. [00:27:00] So, um, I went to college, um, cause I had always worked. I started at my first job was at like, besides acting was at 14, like real, real job to like make money in between acting jobs.

Um, so I had always worked. But I knew, you know, if I move out, I'm not that dumb to know that, like, how much more am I going to have to work to pay for an apartment or something? , so I went to regular school, , and I decided to just major in something that I thought would be fun because I did marketing, I think for like two semesters and I was like, I don't think you can teach marketing.

I switched to kinesiology to just. Bill, I was like, if I'm going to be here, I better like enjoy or learn something. I kind of want to learn, um, while I'm here. Um, and funny enough, uh, because I still did acting and modeling through it all. , most of the time I would have to do, like, 8 to 12 classes. So that was like, I don't even know how colleges nowadays, but like, you could do, like, the earliest classes and make sure you're done.

And so I would do that though. If I had an audition or job or like, whatever, [00:28:00] most of the time I could get there by like, 1 or 2 to LA. And I did. That was like during the time I was working, I think at 20 was when I started on fuel TV. , and I was, I think, 19 or 20 when I started modeling for tap out, which is like a huge UFC brand.

Um, so I would be in like Vegas every other weekend, , back when UFC was like only in Vegas. Um. So, once again, it was like a very different college life than most people, but, , I remember distinctly. I had a counselor, and it was Aaron Moffitt. , And I saw him 1 time, and it was like, you know, the things that counselors have to ask you, like, what do you want to do with your life and all this stuff?

And I was like, oh, I want to do acting modeling. He's like, so why are you here? And I was like. So my mom's forcing me to be here. And he literally said, he's like, you have really good grades for somebody who does not want to be here. And I was like, well, still live there. So I can't completely mess up where my mom just kicks me out.

So, um, yeah, so I still did everything while balancing like [00:29:00] college and regular work jobs that I had and everything. So it was just, um, and then I bought my first house at 20. So it was like. You know, it wasn't these years of just parting it up in college or, you know, all these stories that you hear college kids.

It was like, I have bills to pay and I need to work. And I have, you know, sometimes turning down 1 job could be the opportunity of a lifetime to change other jobs that you could have. So there wasn't like those options. It was just like, this is what you got to do. And you got to, you got to go when they call basically.

[00:29:28] Terry: Yeah. Wow, man. What a work ethic. I think about the work ethic that, you know, that you still have, obviously, but that you had even back then. And I mean, you mentioned that your mom is retired, but still works. And so I'm guessing, you know, a lot of that comes from her and your dad, I'm sure too, but, uh, man, amazing work ethic.

And, you know, you mentioned, yeah, with the modeling that you have. , some regrets there, but man, like you said, you got to go out to Vegas to do UFC stuff. And, uh, I I'm wondering, what are some of the other just kind of cool [00:30:00] opportunities that you had, , as a model?

[00:30:03] Pamela: Um, so I did a photo shoot in Australia once, which was like, really, really cool to be flown there. And I think I ended up spending a week over there. Um, I did, um, I was able to go to the Super Bowl. , right after I was on P. U. L. E. TV, they brought myself and three other girls who had been on a CMT show to like, host a Super Bowl party, , and the company just ended up giving like, the four of us tickets to go to the Super Bowl, but it was like, we all, I think, were pinching ourselves because we were like, Picked up in a giant bus.

And there's this huge house that we got to stay in. And then same thing, like you hosting means you'll stand there. You like walk the red carpet and you stand at the party the rest of the time. So it was one of those things where we're like, is this our life? Like, are we really getting to do this right now?

And then same thing, we go, just going to super bowl when you know how much tickets cost. And like, I would have guys that were like, I'm so jealous and different things. Um, but, , besides that, [00:31:00] I think. Um, I was able to go to the Critics Choice Awards. That was pretty amazing because you know, I was in like a room with Angelina Jolie and Nicole Kidman and Gal Gadot and all these different people.

, but yeah, it's uh, I definitely have experiences that most people. Wouldn't have, but I think it's also makes me appreciate everything so much more because I tell people all the time now, regardless of the industry, like right now we're in like the conservative industry, but I tell people like when people have an ego on them, because I had a huge ego on me in my early twenties, because I was modeling like every action sports.

Company you could think of and like, you know, my picture, like if it was an action sports thing, like my pictures were in it. And, um, but I had a huge ego and then I realized one day, I don't even know what it took to realize, but I was like outside of that industry. Nobody knows who I am. Like literally nobody.

And so when I see people with egos on them now, it always like, it makes me [00:32:00] laugh a little bit because like a conservative movement, we'll meet people. You have a little ego on them and it's like outside of the conservative movement or politics. Nobody knows who you are, you know, um, or even actors. Like, I always look back at that one.

Um, I think it went viral at one point, but it was Jennifer Lopez and she was walking down the street and she was like, I used to live here and this guy is like on his porch and he's like, huh? And she's like, I used to live here. I'm Jennifer Lopez. And he was like, what? And she just like, like walks by and it's like, cause he doesn't know who you are.

Like not everybody on this world knows who you are. Um, and so I think that's like the big thing I've tried to take with me, like moving forward and how I want to hopefully raise my kids up is like, you need to be grateful for everything. You never know when an opportunity could be over. Nothing is forever.

And, um, and you just got to be like humble and kind to people because people are going to remember that 10 times more over like my work resume.

[00:32:56] Terry: for sure. For sure. That's a good word. I'm, I'm curious, Pamela. [00:33:00] I'm so far removed from. The entertainment industry in Hollywood and modeling and everything. But I have a history of anorexia eating disorder, kind of rare for a guy. , but it's part of my story and I, my mind can't help, but think , or wonder, I guess.

As you were in that industry, especially modeling, what was that like for you as far as like body image and like, you know, did you have pressure to be a certain size or number or anything like that? Like, what was that like for

you? 

[00:33:32] Pamela: Yeah. So, uh, I mean, I feel like I'm grateful for the fact that I did not have any of that. Um, I look back actually at my pictures and I was like, why did I think I was so cute? Cause I had like the little like. Pudge down below and like, I don't know, my legs aren't as in shape. I think I'm harder on myself now having a baby, , or when I did bodybuilding, because obviously that's like, to me, I probably have more issues eating wise when I was doing bodybuilding because there was like, you're actually comparing [00:34:00] yourself to people where like back in the day, I would get booked most of the time by myself, you know, or if it was live, there's like two or three other girls.

Um, But bodybuilding was the harder one because, um, I always thought it was an amazing shape. And then you see what these people really look like. And then it's also like a double edged sword because you're, I mean, come to find out now looking back a lot of even the girls who aren't like, I was in the leanest division.

So it's not like we're like these big buff girls. It's like, you're very just. Lean and toned and, but looking back, a lot of them were on steroids and I didn't know that. Um, and so you're like comparing yourself to like, I'm kicking myself in the gym. I'm eating right. I'm doing all these things. Like, why do I not look like that?

And it's when it's kind of like what they say about Instagram. Like, don't compare yourself to Instagram because you don't know what's going on or what filters or anything. Um, but that's where I. I developed a really bad, I had never had an issue with food, but once I was done competing, I would like binge eat because you were [00:35:00] doing like chicken and asparagus for three months to prepare for a show.

And it was like, all I wanted was like donuts and a burger and like maybe a donuts and a burger combined, whatever it could be to like stuff my face with calories. Um, where, , Sometimes I'm very good about it. Now. Like I cook all the time for my husband and my kid. I make doughnuts or doughnuts. I make cookies and muffins and cheesecakes and stuff and I'm normally can have it out and it doesn't even like bother me.

We're like back in the day. Like if it was out, I was like literally sneaking food into like a bathroom. Like that's how crazy it was with my mind. Um, But I do catch myself sometimes slipping back into the like, well, I'm eating healthy and then there's food here, but like, maybe I normally wouldn't have and I, like, eat one too many.

And I think it's that, like, scarcity mindset again of, like, when you've dieted for so long, you don't think you're going to have something again. So, you even though you're gonna have to work it off, you want to eat more, which makes zero [00:36:00] sense. Um, but. , yeah, I think that's, I never like didn't eat and I never threw up, but I had problems with like, Binge eating and then having to work it off.

Cause he would just wake up obviously feeling like crap the next day or a week later, however long it was that you kind of went off the rails. Um, but my husband dealt with what you had. Um, so I, 

[00:36:26] Terry: Oh, really? 

[00:36:26] Pamela: I don't completely know, but I like, I try, I've had many of conversations with him about that. Yeah.

[00:36:34] Terry: Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah. Well, it's nice to know I'm not alone, you know, in that 

[00:36:39] Pamela: Yeah. You're not. 

[00:36:39] Terry: uh, yeah, it's, uh, like I said, more of a rare thing, but I think it's actually becoming more common as well, uh, unfortunately, uh, for guys, but let's, let's go there then, uh, Pamela, let's talk about your husband. You guys met on reality TV and here you are all these years later, still married, right?

So reality TV can produce [00:37:00] long lasting marriages. Tell us, tell us how did that happen?

Pamela. Yeah. 

[00:37:05] Pamela: Yeah. So, um, it was on, if your watchers know, it was on Bravo TV called Below Deck. , it's one of their like bigger shows on the network, but I was lucky enough that once again, my bosses from Tap Out, they were going on the show. They had one extra person to go on and I got the phone call of like, can you be free next week?

, and I definitely had stuff going on, but I was like, I can be free next week. Um, so I got. Flown to the Bahamas, which was once again, one of those like incredible moments that you just get to like be flown somewhere. And then we, um, filmed on the show and my husband was with his group. Who's going to be going on the show after our group.

So basically the show is about, , a huge yacht that people work on and then guests come on. And so we were a guest and then my husband's group was going to be a guest. And, um, when we [00:38:00] were leaving. , we, the, the show, they kept like pulling our yacht in and then pulling it out and then pulling our yacht in and they do the helicopter and all this stuff and come to find out they were doing all of the like pickup shots that you see in between a show where like they show something and it's like the boat and the water or whatever.

Well, they decided we were going to be the ones to do all that. So we kept coming in and I didn't know this at the time, but my husband had been paddleboarding. , for like hours trying to figure out who was on the boat before them. And he finally gave up because we would literally pull in and everybody's thinking like we're about to get off and then we'd pull back out.

So after like two hours, he was like, ah, I'm not doing this anymore. Um, and then that's probably when we pulled in to get off. So he saw that we were finally getting off. And because once again, it's a show you leave the boat, but then they have to make you stop because they need like your. You know, you have to get your bags, they have to take your mics off, like all the different things that happen on a show that people don't realize is going on behind the scenes.

Um, so we [00:39:00] stopped to do all that and then we were heading, um, where we stayed at the Bahamas. There was like, it's one tiny island, one hotel, one pool bar. So like, that's where we're staying tonight. Cause that's, that's all you have. Um, well, my husband saw us getting off, so he circled around to walk by us.

And he said, did you get the boat warmed up for us and then continue to walk by? Well, he has one place to go because there's one hotel on this island. So they end up going to, or I guess he grabbed his group. This is what I'm finding out. Obviously after the fact, he's like, we're going to the pool bar. Um, so they went to the pool bar.

We went to the pool bar because it was the only place to go to. And we ended up sitting our groups across from each other. And then after like 30 minutes of. exchanging eye contacts. Their group finally like came around and talked to us. Um, so it had a very long story short. We, , ended up talking to like 2 a.

m. that morning and exchanged, I think, Instagrams. The next morning he was, when I was [00:40:00] flying out, it was Valentine's Day. He met me before we flew off. He was actually trying to convince me to stay and go on with his group. And my, my boss is Tap out wife was like, you are absolutely not staying with this guy.

Get on the plane. Um, so yeah, so, um, I ended up messaging him. On Instagram being like, well, are you going to ask for my number? Cause like we don't exchange Instagrams. Um, and so he was like, no, I was going to, and I was like, I still give him a hard time about that. But, um, so we were like, he, he filmed with his group and he flew home to Indy.

He was living in Indiana. And then he packed his bags and flew to California to see me that weekend. , and so we spent that weekend together, and then the next weekend I flew to Chicago. He was in Chicago working. We spent that weekend together. And then I think we met either a week or two later in Vegas.

And then he had some crazy Europe trip for work. And so [00:41:00] we spent like a month or a month and a half, like long distance. And then he packed up his bags and moved to California. And we had lived together ever since. So I always tell people he could have, it could have been a fairy tale or a serial killer.

And thank goodness it was the fairy tale. Cause I could have ended up in like a box somewhere.

[00:41:17] Terry: right, right. Praise God. Praise God. It worked out. How long have you guys been, been married

now, Pamela? 

[00:41:23] Pamela: , so we've been together nine years, but we're going to be married five years this year.

[00:41:28] Terry: Awesome. Awesome. What was that like for you getting , into a relationship with him, Pamela, after it sounds like one of the last relationships that you had was very abusive , and I would imagine traumatic for you, you know, in, in some regards, what was that like to, , Be able to kind of, you know, trust your now husband with not just your physical safety, but like emotional safety as

well. 

[00:41:53] Pamela: Yeah, I think we both had, like, a lot of working with each other on that because he had been cheated on in his [00:42:00] previous relationship. I'm sure mine cheated on me. I didn't know it, but, like, I was just the one that was constantly being cheated on, which is normally the sign that you're being cheated on, um, And so I think we both just had like a lot of to work on where we, I don't think we, we did trust each other, but like, not 100%.

If that makes sense. Um, I had a lot of stuff of like, loosed up tight ends with my ex, like, literally getting a car in his name that was like in my name and different things. So. There were some times where, like, I have to be emailing him or text messaging him or like, where's your payments, whatever it was.

And I think for a while, that was hard for him to trust me that I wasn't, you know, doing something I wasn't supposed to be with this ex, you know, or lying to him, like his last ex did. Um, and then I think for me. He would be traveling a lot and I would be mentally questioning, like, was he doing something?

Cause I'm not there. And like all these different things. So a lot of that I think has just grown over time. I don't think we were perfect by any [00:43:00] means in the very beginning. , and then we both come from broken homes. So especially when like, we, we talked about marriage on our first date, but when, You know, we got engaged and then we're planning this wedding.

I think there was more talks of, well, I just like, especially from my end, like, I just want to make sure, like, you know, if. Something happens in our marriage. Like, this is not just something that you can walk away from because like I've seen it with my parents, your parents have been multiple times married, and that's just not something I want for my life.

Like, this isn't just a like, well, let's just see if this works. And if it doesn't, then, you know, let's. Go our separate ways. Like, that's just not something I was interested in. So that was really hard for me because I think I probably asked him like several times, like, are you sure? Are you sure? Cause I just knew, I knew that he wanted to be married, but I also think wanting to be married, but then wanting to stick it out.

Through the tough times are two completely different things. Um, and so he probably got very annoyed with me [00:44:00] at some points asking, but I just think it was like, I'd rather express myself and have somebody get annoyed and like, you know, say things over and over again, or asking the right questions and communicating, then not communicating at all.

And then, you know, Five years down the road being divorced.

[00:44:17] Terry: Exactly. Exactly.

Good for you Good for, you

[00:44:20] Pamela: Mm 

[00:44:20] Terry: for doing that. Even, even if you did annoy him a little bit, um, yeah, I mean, you, you knew what you wanted, uh, you knew what you didn't want and, and you wanted that, you know, affirmation, , that clarification, that, You know, if, if we do this, like we're doing it for life, you know, that, that's the intent here.

And, uh, yeah, , it's, it's working out , , and God has been blessing you guys and you guys have a kid, you guys have little Aiden. What was that like for you? , Pamela becoming a mom.

[00:44:50] Pamela: Yeah, so my story of becoming a mom is not beautiful at all like you see on Instagram where they like present a box and like a surprise and all this stuff to their husband. [00:45:00] Um, I was feeling so Super, super sick that whole week. And I remember, , I had gone to like a hair appointment or something. I don't even remember, but, um, I'm pretty sure it was a hair appointment.

Cause I remember telling her like, I'm thinking I have the flu, which she probably was like, why are you here? Um, but she was my friend. So thank goodness she wasn't like mean to me about it. But, um, I was like, yeah, I have the flu. I'm just so nauseous. And it's been like the worst flu I've ever had. And she's like, you should probably go to the doctor.

, And so I remember coming home to my husband and I was like, you know, if this doesn't get better, I'm going to go to the doctor because I knew I was at least dehydrated at the very least because of how bad I felt. , and then all of a sudden I got this like crazy pain in my lower abdomen, like to the point where I remember being like, we have to go to the emergency room.

I'm probably going to be having surgery tonight. Like, I don't know what this is, but it hurts so bad. Like something is about to explode. you know you hear those stories all the time. Like something's about to explode in my body. They're going to be rushing into surgery to like remove whatever this is. , and I [00:46:00] sat for like four or five hours like in pain in the emergency room.

And um, finally, we got into a room and they asked my husband to leave, and then asked if I had the results of my pee test. And I was like, no, and she's like, Oh, well, you're pregnant. And do you want us to bring him back in? And I was like, yeah. And I'm like bawling my eyes out. Um, and so he comes in and he says he already knew.

That's why, like, when I said I had to go to the emergency room, he said he like knew I was pregnant, but didn't want to like, tell me. , and then just to like, bring into Our lives. We, so he comes in, I'm bawling my eyes out. And he's like, are you pregnant? I'm like, no. And he's like, well, why are you crying?

And up until this moment, I had been up for like a huge TV show. Like that's in the TV world, pretty well known. Even if you like, don't watch it, it's like, you, you know what it is. And, um, I was all the way to [00:47:00] production rounds, which is where like they. If you make it to there, you're like, odds are well, because it's just like them choosing at that point who they want for that season.

Um, and so my husband, like, why are you crying? And I'm like, I'm not gonna get on this show. Because at that point, like, this was my life. I had worked like my entire life. And this was like, this is one of those shows that You can be on it for two or three seasons and then ride that sucker for like 15 years, you know, and just maybe never do anything ever again and just like still collect paychecks by doing stuff.

Um, and so I just knew like I had worked so hard. And so it was like, it was hard for me in that moment because a I wasn't with the Lord whatsoever, but also it was like. You know, when you work so hard for something and you're so close for it to be, like, slipped away, because I knew the moment I told them I was pregnant, like, they weren't going to cast me.

That's just not going to be an option on this kind of a show. , and right [00:48:00] away, they, like, wheeled in the ultrasound. And I remember hearing Aiden's, uh, Aiden's heartbeat, because it was only six and a half weeks, but you could fully hear it. And it was just like, okay, well, this is my life. And I think it took me like, I was happy, but it took me like two weeks to be like, okay, well, I'm not going to be like acting like I thought.

Cause like, what are you going to do? Take a baby in a trailer for 15 hour days? Like that's just not going to happen. Um, So it was kind of like almost like putting a funeral for like my old life and like what I thought I wanted and like to be accepting of this and then, um, things were awesome. Well, the world shut down, but things were awesome.

[00:48:42] Terry: Yeah. So that was during COVID

then. 

[00:48:45] Pamela: So we, um, we found out I was pregnant. In October 31st. Yeah, because it was Halloween and we were like, Oh, we're spending our ER and, uh, Halloween. Um, so we found out I was pregnant October 31st and, , the world [00:49:00] shut down in what, March 

[00:49:02] Terry: March 20. 

[00:49:03] Pamela: of 2020.

So we had our gender reveal. I think 5 days before the world shut down and co and I remember because people were asking us if we were still going to do it.

Because that was already like, it's in the United States and like, but, like, you didn't really know what it was yet. And so, and then it shut down 5 days later. So. We found out that my husband could be in the room with me delivering the day before I had him, because up until then, they did not know if they were going to allow him in the room.

And I was like, if I had to push my first baby out by myself, I'm gonna lose it. It's not happening. Um, but nobody else was allowed in the room and he wasn't allowed to leave the hospital. So for four days, my husband could not leave the hospital and nobody was allowed to visit.

[00:49:53] Terry: Wow. Wow. Well, man, in, in the midst of a very hellish time for our [00:50:00] country, what a gift to, to bring. , life into the world. And, and, , now we, you know, Aiden is with you guys. And I believe it was also around this time, Pamela, that you and your husband kind of started to find the Lord. Can you walk us through, , your testimony here, right?

Like, how did you guys, , get into a relationship with Jesus

Christ? 

[00:50:19] Pamela: Yeah. So, I mean, obviously I had gone to Christian school, so I had all, some of it instilled into me. He went to Catholic school. So same thing. Some of it was instilled to him, but same thing. It wasn't like church was every Sunday or we, you know, uphold these rules in our house. There was like nothing like that for him or I, , and I had, we had a couple of talks, so especially obviously once we found out I was pregnant of like.

You know, I think kids should be raised with, , these morals and , , learning the Bible and different things, because at the end of the day, like the Bible is literally the morals that you say you want to teach your kids. You just decided to do fairy tales instead of the [00:51:00] Bible. Um, and so we had had conversations about that, but I remember one night I had turned to him and I just said, like, I really think we should start going to church because I think Aidan should be.

Raised with this. And like, if we're telling him to do it, but like nobody else ever is, that's not going to It's just as bad as sending, you know, him like myself to Christian school, but then it not being instilled at home. Like it kind of has to be instilled everywhere. So that way, you know, like, it's not just you, or it's not just your parents asking you to do it.

, and so when I said, like, I really think we should start going to church, he had turned to me and said, like, I was thinking the same thing, but I didn't know how to bring it up to you. , so it was just one of those God things where. I'm sure I was nervous at the time to, like, bring it up to my husband.

We've never gone to church before, um, but we did it. Um, we found an amazing church. , that was actually like the hardest part from leaving California because I love our church so much. . But we, we started going, we started going every Sunday, he would be listening to him and his pod, like the [00:52:00] pastor's podcast, even when, like, we weren't going to church, which was amazing.

, and yeah, I think, I think it was just something that, like, we both knew we wanted to do. So there wasn't like that internal struggle of it all. , but I remember there was one Sunday where they did. The, you know, we're going to say a prayer and if anybody like feels called to do so, like you can come to the front of the stage and, and then we'll take you in a room, all this stuff.

Well, I just like got up and I went, I think I even had Aiden with me cause I don't think he was going to the nursery yet and I just went and my husband stayed back. I think he like came like after it was all over, but like I went by myself and um, and so I think it was like two or three months later and they did something similar.

And he was like, I'm gonna go. And I'm like, okay, like, I think you thought I was gonna be like, no, I was like, okay, well, so you think you should do, you should go. Um, and cause he was like, well, cause I didn't go, I didn't go when you guys went. I'm like, okay, [00:53:00] so you should go. Um, and so he went and he was kind of crying.

I finally like went up there and like met him before it was over and like I was crying for him. , and then he got baptized, , a couple months after, , I did. Um, so it's just been a crazy whirlwind, but I think it was something that we, we both needed. Cause I think we both came from. Such crazy background of like literally doing so much as like, I would say young kids and. You know, when you've seen so much of the world, it also can, it's like amazing, but it also can, , take away the excitement of it because when you've seen so much and done so much, like there is a part of you that kind of becomes like desensitized to it where you're like, okay, like, um, another, another red carpet, like haven't done that before.

It sounds so awful when you think about it, but I think it's [00:54:00] given. Not only Aiden, but then, um, obviously coming to the Lord has given us like a new found, like filter over our eyes, like being appreciative of everything. I'm being appreciative of the opportunities. Cause I still get, you know, opportunities.

From my acting things that I haven't done anything in like five years and I still get like these crazy opportunities of the even my family gets to benefit off of and I always tell even Aiden when we go, which he doesn't completely get it yet at this point, but I'm like, you need to be grateful. Like there's kids that never get to do this stuff, let alone.

With mommy and daddy not paying for it, you know, 

[00:54:36] Terry: Yeah. 

[00:54:37] Pamela: so it's, , it's definitely one of those things that I think it happened at the perfect moment. If there was going to be any moment in our lives, I'd want it to happen right before Eden because it's so not new to us because we, like I said, we were kind of like grown up with it, but.

It's so much more of a reason to stay on like a straight path and, and, and have, [00:55:00] you know, aid and see us doing it and it not just being, this is what you need to do, but then we're not doing the same thing and it's really helped me be more grateful for like what we do have in our businesses and stuff too, because at the end of the day, I know that like, God doesn't have to give me anything.

He didn't have to give me any customers. , so that's been another thing is I try to. Be good. There's days that I fail, but try to be very good at praying over every single customer who purchases, because I know that that's at the end of the day, somebody that God gave us that he didn't need to, or he could have given it to another business.

[00:55:38] Terry: Yeah. That's amazing. That's amazing. How, how did, or how, how has your career been affected or changed as a result of coming to the Lord? You know, when it comes to acting, when it comes to modeling, what, what has that been like now that you're walking with the

Lord? 

[00:55:55] Pamela: Yeah. So, um, acting is non existent, um, not only [00:56:00] because of like being Christian, but I think also coming out very like conservative values, which hopefully you're okay with me putting that out there with 

your listeners. Um, so that, I mean, I won't be able to get an agent to save my life. I literally am always like, if I'm meeting somebody in there and then there's entertainment industry, I'm like, so if you know somebody.

Had them call me because I would love to act again, no idea how, um, so that's like non existent. I've been able to model for a couple of brands, not like I used to, I used to be like every week doing something. Um, but like I was booked for Brittany Aldean's hair extension company and a couple of like conservative brands.

Um, but same thing. It's like most people, unfortunately, like look at your social media now before doing stuff with you. And it's. They want, you know, they look at what I'm putting out and that's not what they're wanting to align themselves with. So, um, it's been difficult , but [00:57:00] I still try to tell myself.

Okay. Well You know, maybe one day acting will come again or the stars will not stars, but like the stars will align to like have God bring somebody in my life that values the same things as me and it's producing something, whatever it may be, um, but I would not be able to have this time with my son had I been.

Continuing on as I had, or we probably wouldn't even have the same relationship. Like if I would have gotten on that show, I mean, the first few months of his lives, he probably would have barely seen me. And, um, or if I was acting like I was, cause even sometimes I would do like day roles. Because they paid really well.

And like, if you don't want to work the next day, you're not that big of a deal because you're, you're on the show for a day. But like day roles, sometimes I would be on a movie set for 15 hours. Sometimes like my son would never see me. So, um, I just try to like stay in my mind instead of like, what I don't have of like being grateful for what I do have and having [00:58:00] that time with him that I probably wouldn't have gotten.

And then just, you know, praying that if God wants me to act or model again, it'll. Kind of, it'll happen when he wants it to happen.

[00:58:11] Terry: Yeah, for sure. I mean, , God's timing is perfect. And I mean, like you said, what a blessing to just have this time to, to kind of be full time stay at home mom with

Aiden and, you know, you're never going to get that time back. And so what, what a blessing, but I firmly believe Pamela, that if that is a desire of your heart to act, to model, God will open up the doors.

And I mean, I think we're, we're seeing this in Hollywood, even now with like angel studios

and, , a lot of great Christian content coming out. And, , God is so much bigger than any pushback or resistance that you might be getting for your beliefs and for your values. And so I'm believing that if that's what you truly want to do in your heart, that God will definitely open up opportunities for

you. 

[00:58:53] Pamela: Yeah, well, we'll keep praying and he'll show me if that's what it's supposed to be.[00:59:00] 

[00:59:00] Terry: Right. 

So then, yeah, Pamela, like you said, , you are very bold and courageous and unashamed in standing for conservative values. Tell us , how did that come to be? You know, I mean, I, I don't know what your values were previously coming to the Lord, but I'm guessing if you were in the Hollywood entertainment industry, there were maybe.

Liberal leaning, left leaning, , what happened for you to, , come into conservative values and really, , become, , an advocate for

them. 

[00:59:30] Pamela: Yeah. I mean, I don't, I wouldn't say I was like completely left leaning. I think I was. Um, I think I was more like libertarian because it was like, well, whatever people do, if it doesn't affect me, you know, and, but I didn't have any like strong set things with myself either. So, uh, COVID happened, um, and that's when I think I started questioning, and I didn't, and I wasn't in politics at all before.

Like, I, and I always [01:00:00] like to preface that because I don't want people to think I'm like some know it all and I'm going to name everything. , But like, I wouldn't be even been able to tell you like what a Democrat believed or like thought was right, or a Republican. Like I literally just learned all this like five years ago.

So, um, yeah, so COVID happened and I remember just kind of like thinking about things that were happening, like even the simple things, like, what do you mean my husband, it can't be in the room with me when I deliver our child. Like there was just things like that, that really started to like bug me. And that would.

I started going down the rabbit hole. I think, um, I was by no means like an anti vaxxer, but when, um, you know, it's like, you have to get this, you're gonna be killing people if you don't get this, all this stuff. And I was thinking, like, just logical thinking, like, they haven't done any studies. Like, how do we not know in 20 years, everybody could grow an extra arm from this thing?

Like, we have no idea, but everybody's saying to get it. And I just remember thinking, like, [01:01:00] no, that's not I'm not getting, I'm not putting this in my body when I don't know what could happen. And that's something that can't be reversed. You know, once it's in there, like there's no way to reverse that. So there's just different things that came up.

And I think, so my husband was always a Republican, didn't know that once again, because we didn't talk about politics. Um, but he, I think he sent me. A Ben Shapiro podcast and I listened to it and I, I feel bad saying this now, but I remember I was like, he talks way too fast. I'm like, no, I'm not, I'm not listening to this guy.

Um, but then I think I listened to like one or two more and he started to like grow on me. But, and I think also because when you're. New to something like Ben Shapiro can be very intimidating in a good way. Like I'm not saying, cause I, I listened to him now and I think, you know, I don't agree with everything a hundred percent, but I think he's like very articulate.

He's very smart. He's clearly like on a higher IQ level than a lot of [01:02:00] people. So I think it was also not only does he talk fast, but he's intimidating. And like, I'm not even in the politic realm yet. Um, but now I listened to like Matt Walsh and Candace Owens and Sarah Gonzalez. And, um, Allie B Stuckey, Glenn Beck is incredible.

Um, but I just started kind of listening to things to help me think outside of, you know, everything else I had been taught because my parents didn't teach me politics and it's something I really same thing I want to instill in Aiden because I wish somebody would have sat me down, even if it was school, I don't even care, but sat me down and been like, you know, don't just vote to vote.

Like every vote actually like can change. Something in one direction. And if you're just, if you're not actually like knowing what you're voting for, that's not even helping, like you just putting down a name when you don't even know what this person believes in. And I think that's not to go off on a tangent, but that's something that needs to be taught in school completely.

, But I think [01:03:00] I, I just started kind of going down the rabbit hole of wanting to like be challenged with my critical thinking. And I don't always agree with every conservative 100%, but I think they do make me think about things in a different way or realize that I'm also not crazy and we're completely aligned with what we think about.

, so that was kind of a lot of what it was. And I think it was kind of a shell shock for my parents because all of a sudden I'm like super, I'm realizing I'm super conservative. , and then. , Yeah, I don't know. I think it, it was, it was just so many things in that short amount of time piled together and realizing, you know, we're all kind of been sold these like lies, uh, you know, women should be working.

Um, I mean, obviously I was. Scared when I found out I was pregnant with Aiden, but like, you know, a baby's going to ruin your career and, , you know, don't talk about politics. Like, how long have we heard that? Like, since what? Like the 1950s. And I think this is all stuff that's like so important [01:04:00] because if you don't talk about it, you're a, you're never going to know, but you're also never going to see the other side.

And I think that's. One thing I wish we could all be better at is I think you should be able to civilly have a conversation with somebody you disagree with and find out why you disagree with instead of just like, I mean, I had bridesmaids unfriend me. , after starting to post things where it's like, so you got along with me this entire time until you found out, maybe I disagreed with you and now all of a sudden we, we can't have conversations even though we could before.

And I probably agreed with these things before. We just didn't talk about it. Um, so yeah, it's, it's been, um, another interesting couple of years throwing that in with, with the Christian, the Christian, the new, new beliefs, pretty much.

[01:04:51] Terry: Right. Yeah. I mean, you, you really figured out how to get Hollywood , to just kind of turn against you there. Right. Like, let's not just become a Christian. Let's be conservative too. [01:05:00] Um, no, I, I love it. Obviously I, I hold very similar beliefs. To, to you as well, Pamela. So then what, what was that like, as far as, , you're, like I said, you're, you're kind of like an ambassador for like the conservative movement.

So how did that come to be? Did you, you know, like you said, you were posting some stuff on social media then did, you know, did that just kind of lead you to connecting with certain people and organizations or what

was that like, right, 

[01:05:24] Pamela: Yeah, I think so. Um, I, well, I feel like I'm more of like a Christian ambassador than a conservative ambassador because I think there's people who do conservatism way better than me and like talk about every story that comes out and everything. I am that person that listens to all that and I have opinions, but I also feel like we're in a weird stage where.

If we keep like pushing people away, if that makes sense, like they're never going to come to see our side where I feel like I'm, I'm hoping I can be more of like a beacon of light where I post Bible verses every day. And a lot of times I'll have somebody be like, [01:06:00] I needed this Bible verse today or like, oh my gosh, I was having the worst day.

And then I saw this and I would rather be. Known for that and have people, you know, potentially like me and then also see that we're not all these like crazy Christian judgmental people then worry about posting every political story. So I always like to say like my business partners are totally conservative.

You know, influencers and they probably don't like that word, but like they do it amazing and they're so incredible what they do where I try to be more about Christian and then the organizations that I'm involved in. So, , how it all came about was obviously I started finding out for myself. The values and I would see people that I knew going to their conferences or women's organizations, and I wanted to not feel alone because I feel like when you're in this, you feel kind of alone besides when you're at church.

Um, and so I, um, I remember I either reached out to Turning Point or Turning [01:07:00] Point reached out to me and I went to America Fest last year and they kind of had me out there just to see if it was going to be a good fit for like both of us. And my husband, I loved it and told everybody you need to come next year cause that's how much fun we had.

, but then I was, um, luckily enough able to become a Turning Point ambassador. , and then I also am a Gems for Gems ambassador. They're actually in Canada. But they, , work with people who have had domestic violence, women and children who've had domestic violence, and then also have, an entire system that I think is much better than what we have in America, , called Haven's Cradle, that, , basically is a way to, if you want to surrender your baby, to surrender in a really safe way, and that the fire department's notified in like a minute.

So, um, I do all this with gems for gems. And then, , about a year and a half ago, I was same thing. God put this, , pastor in my [01:08:00] life. So, um, I was in a women's group and they said that they needed volunteers for a baby shower that they were having. And my husband and I were going to be gone. , so I wasn't going to be able to volunteer, but I said, I would love to help or donate like big item if I can for this mom in need.

And so I got a crib. , donated and my husband and I went to put this crib together, which felt like it was like three hours to put this crib together. And, uh, the pastor at our church walks in and he just sat down watching my husband and I put together this crib and started talking. Um, and by the end of it, , he runs love life at our church in California.

And I remember leaving there and being like, I think I'm going to sign up to do something with them. And I think my husband probably thought I was crazy. Um, but he was, you know, he was like saying how amazing it was and all this stuff. And it was like, almost like that guilt thing over you where you're like, well, [01:09:00] what are you doing to serve?

And you're like, Nothing. I'm busy. Leave me alone. And I left there feeling so guilty. I'm a mom to a baby. Okay. Um, and, uh, but

anyways. Yeah, I, I'm busy. All right. I'm breastfeeding like every 45 minutes. Um, but I, I applied to be a mentor. So now I'm a mentor in the love life organization. So I have my mentee right now, which if your listeners don't know what love life is, it's when, um, a mama was gonna have an abortion and went to a Planned Parenthood or something similar and, um, basically decides not to.

And then they get paired up with a mentor who you're there for their whole pregnancy and then up. through the birth to the baby's first birthday. Um, and so, um, same thing. I, I, you know, I was able to, I'm so lucky to have spoken at the 40 week walk for the love life march. Um, and I [01:10:00] was the keynote speaker and I think, I mean, you might have that same, that video is on.

Instagram, but I like cried through the whole thing. And I don't know why. Cause like I wrote the speech, like I know what it says, but being up on there on that stage and then like, you know, telling my story of like, I thought I was going to be this actress. I thought I was going to be on a TV show. And then I was, you know, blessed to have been given aid.

And it made me so emotional. Knowing like, you know, how many other women, it might not be a TV show, but how many other women like think that them having the baby is going to change their life. And it's like, it is, but like. I'm speaking on a stage now, which is like the greatest gift I could have ever been given.

And I'm able to have this mentee who thinks the world of me and says like she wants me in her life, like all throughout her daughter growing up and just all these things that led to that moment that I would have potentially never [01:11:00] gotten. And I. Think that's, you know, same thing. I would love to act and I would love to model, but like, I would rather do that any day because that could actually change somebody's life that, and I'm already changing somebody's life with my mentee.

And I would have never had this opportunity had I kept doing everything that I was doing. So, um, I tell everybody all the time, like, I think the biggest thing that God's done is just make us more. Like humble and not so self serving and be worrying about serving other people. Because I think, you know, I, and I, my husband and I have had these conversations that we would have been like egotistical, like, , probably not the best parents.

, But probably like had a nanny or something like that because I am mommy needs her sleep. Like, but we did it all ourselves and we, you know, struggled the first few years. And, um, but I think it was all to like, you know, I think I'm still figuring out what I'm supposed to be doing, but. All the like, get us to these places of like, [01:12:00] but look what you could be doing with your life and how it can affect, you know, so many different people.

And, you know, just even being able to have my name associated with some of these organizations, I think is amazing. And not for them, like for me, like the fact that they want me, I think is like such, so beautiful.

[01:12:18] Terry: Yeah. Yeah, I think back to the beginning of our interview and you were talking about how you wish that your name would be, , thought of when people talk about these causes instead of, you know, the bikini , , modeling pictures and stuff like that. And like I said, I, I really feel like that is going to be the case.

I mean, it already is, and I feel like it's just going to, that momentum is just going to keep on, uh, going for you. Pima, what's that like? I can't imagine how rewarding that is to be able to walk alongside your mentee, you know, someone who thought about, , killing their child and, and decided, no, , I'm, I want to keep it and I want to be the mom to this child, what's it like to walk alongside them throughout their [01:13:00] journey?

[01:13:01] Pamela: You know, it's weird because it's like, you don't think of them as like somebody separate or like somebody like, Oh, I need to check in on them. Like now I just feel like it's more of like a friend. Like I'll see, you know, her posts on Facebook, like we're Facebook friends and Instagram friends. And I'll see her posts and she posts pictures of the baby and, you know, I like them and different things.

And, um, It's, it's, it's interesting because it switches so quick where I think I was like begging her to interact with me. Like, I actually remember we were at like, um, a love life meeting with my director at my director's house. And it's like, well, what can we pray for? And I'm like, I want her to talk to me.

She doesn't talk to me. She doesn't return my texts. This is what I want. I want her to talk to me. Um, and then they like, obviously prayed over us and the next morning she texted me. And that had like never happened. Like it was constantly me like, Hey, how are things? Have I heard from you? What's going on?

And, um, ever since then, like she texts me all the time, but it's, it's switched [01:14:00] so quick from like, you know, uh, almost, I don't want to say transactional relationship, but that's kind of like what it feels like. Right. Because it's like, well, you got it, especially in the beginning, like you got, you know, there's.

You know, there's protocols and stuff, but like, you got to be checking in, you got to make sure that they're not like, you know, feeling a certain way and then going off the rails and, and different things. And, um, and it, so it switched so quick from that to like, you know, her confining in me and like things that are going on, that's like probably so hard for her that, you know, I have, I've never dealt with those things, but I can only give her like.

The best advice and words of wisdom possible. Um, but it started to feel like a friendship and like a little sister and, you know, even recently something happened and I wanted to just be like, what you doing? Don't do that. Um, but you know, when, when it's a little sister at the end of the day, you still love them even for like their mistakes.

And so you have to like, just guide them the best way you can. And I think that's, what's been like really cool [01:15:00] about it. It's like, I never got to be a big sister. But it almost feels like I get to do that now and, and have somebody that, like, looks up to me, values talking to me, and, and knows that I'm putting Some sort of value back in their life, which I think that's what most people want out of like a relationship and a friendship is to feel that they're valued.

And I think this is like the perfect organization for anybody in any volunteer capacity to feel like you are giving value to somebody's life or, or even a purpose.

[01:15:33] Terry: That's amazing. I love that. Have, have you been able to work with a mentee long enough to see them, you know, uh, give birth to their child and see that child turn

one years old? 

[01:15:44] Pamela: So she hasn't turned one yet, um, but she's, uh, halfway there and, um, it's, it's just so surreal because she, my mentee is like such a good mom and she's younger. She's probably [01:16:00] scared, but she's such a good mom and, um, and for her to. Make the life changes that she has in such a short time. We're not allowed to reveal what they've been through, obviously for like confidential stuff, but like what she's done in such a short amount of time to me is incredible.

And it's all because of this little girl who she constantly is like, Oh, my love, like the love of my life and all these different things. And it's just like. Because I was there where you're so scared and I'm sure she was too, because she's obviously younger than I was, but it's like, but it's amazing once it's there, huh?

It's so scary. And I, and I, that's the one thing I will try to like, you know, I don't want to sugar coat things cause that's not good. It leads to like very unrealistic expectations. Like there were times I had those tough conversations, like, It's going to be scary. You know, even when you give birth, it's, it's going to be scary.

And you're going to be tired. And like in the first few months, you're going to be tired because they're up all the time, but at the same [01:17:00] time, they're going to look at you and they're going to coo and they're going to giggle. And like, it's going to be things like that. They're going to like light up your heart.

Because I think if you do that, there's not going to be a time where it's like, This is well, this is awful. This is hard. Like, how come you didn't tell me this is like, no, I gave you all the gave you all the expectations. However, you're also going to get those moments in between the tiredness and everything that like makes up for all of it.

So I, I don't know if that's everybody's approach for that. But I try to like make that my approach because I remember, you know, breastfeeding for like the 15th time one night and be like, I'm so tired. But if you have that expectation that nobody gave me, it probably would have been easier because it's like, Well, yeah, you're going to be tired.

It's going to, it's going to stink maybe for the first three months. If you have a child that breastfeeds as much as Aiden, but it's going to get better and that's all that really matters is because you know, there's like an end to it all.

[01:17:52] Terry: Right. Right. Are you able to like incorporate faith into the

relationship with her as well? 

[01:17:58] Pamela: Yeah. So you, [01:18:00] you definitely, they want you to. You also have to gauge every person, I think, on a case by case basis. Um, my mentee is not super over religious. I see what she posts in between, you know, things. Um, but I try to love on her. We've invited her to church. She has come sometimes. Um, She, you know, accepted like a Bible and different things like that.

I think one time she even texted me saying she was going to church with like her mother in law. They're not married yet, but like mother in law and so things like that, that, you know, you're working. And to me, same thing. I don't want to pressure somebody. Like they need to come to this on their own and they just need to know that we're loving.

That's like the same way I feel like about my, my Instagram. Like if somebody wants to know more, I'm going to. Feed in the more, but I think you have to gauge every person by where they're at and meet them where they're at. You can't treat everybody the same. And I feel like if I was that person that was sending every sermon and every Bible verse, like [01:19:00] she would have been like, come on, you know, like, let's just be real.

There's people like that. And, um, and so I just really met her where that, where she was at. And if she, you know, said something, I'd be like, well, I'm going to pray over this for you, or I'm going to pray for you or your family or whatever it was. And I think that really helped our relationship too, because.

Um, you know, I, I don't ever want to be that person that comes off so pushy. Like this is what you need to be doing because then she could be doing it just cause I say it and not because she wants to be doing it, which isn't going to help anybody.

[01:19:31] Terry: exactly. Exactly. I really see you as, as kind of the seed planter in her life, right? Like you're planting seeds and maybe that's. Your role and God has someone else in line to kind of water the seeds and cultivate it. But, uh, you're being faithful with, with what God has told you to do. It's so cool to hear how God is using you and man, especially with that kind of organization, you and I both know in, in today's day and age, that is so needed [01:20:00] to have organizations like Love Life and to have people like you being willing to walk alongside , these women who, , Really don't know what to do, you know, in, in regards to getting, , ready to, to give birth and to become a mom.

And so, so cool to see how God is using you and man, you, you're a full time mom, but you got your hands in a lot of different stuff here, Pamela, I, I don't know how you do it. I was trying to like compile a list of everything that, that like you're involved with. And I, I just kind of gave up cause I'm just like, I, I just can't even name them all.

You mentioned that the turning point and for those who don't know what turning point is, can you kind of tell us what that

is? 

[01:20:36] Pamela: Yeah. So they're a nonprofit organization. Um, they. I always find it weird because I think they can't say that they lean a certain way, but they lean more conservative, , and they do incredible conferences, but they have different chapters of turning point, which is what's really cool too. So the, the conferences are amazing if you can ever go to them, because once again, it's like your people and they have, like, you [01:21:00] know, America Fest was the 1 that just happened.

It's a huge 1 in Phoenix. They have young women's leadership. They have the student action summit. They have act con. So there's a. A bunch of different options to be able to go to and attend, but then they have like turning point faith, which is, you know, trying to get more faith things on campuses and they have turning point action, which is, you know, to be, you know, know what's going on politically and be able to, um, you know, really act on, you know, certain.

Things that are trying to be passed or try to get them not passed. So it's a really amazing organization that they're so involved in so many different aspects of, um, what they're doing. I think they have a podcast, they kind of have like TV shows that they're doing. So they have their hands in so many different things.

Um, but we try to go to as many of the conferences as we can meet people, um, obviously attend to hear people too, but really like meet who's coming and, , be like a welcoming. Face and arms to those [01:22:00] people, , which I think is really, really cool for our training point to do. , so yeah, that's kind of a little bit about turning point.

[01:22:07] Terry: Yeah. And then noble critters, my wife and I are, are huge, , animal lovers. And so I definitely want to plug noble critters. Tell us

about that. 

[01:22:16] Pamela: Yeah, that's a noble critters is a nonprofit that I started in 2019. So, um, we have apparel hats, t shirts, sweatshirts, things like that, that you can purchase on our website, noble critters. org, but we give a hundred percent of our profits to animal sanctuary partners. So. Um, I always wanted to, like, own an animal sanctuary or have, like, A big farm that like, you don't eat, you just like, kind of have animals.

Um, I do eat meat, but I like, still, I just want like, pets everywhere. Um, and big ones, like cows and stuff. So, um, so, I, but I know that it's like, highly irresponsible to open a sanctuary unless you have like, [01:23:00] everything worked out. You have the land, you have the setups for these things, you have the The funding to keep it going because, like, the biggest thing when I've talked to these animal sanctuary owners, like, the worst thing that you can do is start something and then have to close down and then they, the rest of these animal sanctuaries have to, like, pick up the pieces to figure out where these animals are going to go.

And if they have room, take them on. So. I figured instead of like, you know, trying to start something that I might not be able to support. This was the best way to get something going to really be able to give back to some of these places that just struggle to get funds in, , and, and help out any way I can.

So we do in kind donations and then the apparel purchases and we give a hundred percent of that. So like, I don't take a paycheck. My board doesn't take a paycheck. It's literally just to try to give back.

[01:23:51] Terry: that's awesome. I'll make sure to post the link to noble critters and everything else we're talking about in the show notes. So everyone listening to this can find it super easily [01:24:00] and go and support what you are doing. 

Pamela, this has been awesome. I've, I've really enjoyed getting to know you over, you know, this last hour and a half now, and, you know, a couple last closing questions for you. , you know, when you look back at some of , the modeling photos, other than, , not taking into account, like thinking about what you look like physically or anything like that.

But like, when you think back to like where you were at mentally and emotionally compared to where you're at now, what would you go back and tell, you know, your 20 year old self, your 25 year old self in those pictures.

[01:24:37] Pamela: Yeah. I mean, I think I would. Like say, , you're doing this so you feel attractive and you are getting compliments from people who aren't, you know, who you aren't with. , But the greatest compliment you're going to get is from your husband telling you you're beautiful and from your [01:25:00] child telling you you're beautiful.

And I think. That's why even looking back to what we just said, like why I feel so much more comfortable without the extensions, without the filler, without, , getting facials and lasers and all these different things on a, I don't have the time with a toddler, but, um, you know, I don't need. Another man anymore to tell me I'm beautiful or not beautiful because at the end of the day, their opinion doesn't matter.

My husband's opinion matters. And so I get ready in the morning for myself and for him, because that is, you know, what God asked us to do is we are, you know, God didn't say to have a baby and then never take care of yourself again. It's like, no, you're like, you should take pride in getting ready for your husband's like beautiful for And I feel like there's also been a little bit of Going away from that.

, and where before I would totally just get ready to, , receive compliments and, , [01:26:00] hear things to feed my ego. And so I think that would be the biggest thing is, you know, it looks like you're living the life you kind of were for a little bit. I'm not going to take all that away from you.

, but at the end of the day, it's for all the wrong reasons. And like, this is not the attention. That you truly want, which is probably why I would go home at the end of a day of modeling and go home to an empty home. And it like, you would just kind of scour comments because there was nothing to feed that anymore.

, we're now not having to do that. I mean, now I'm like the worst with my phone. Like I batch story upload. Then, then I put my phone down and I, you know, I hate doing it. , but I do it because I know at the end of the day, I'm trying to provide some purpose. To why I have a platform, I always say now, if you have a platform and you're not using it for some kind of good, then there's no reason for you to, so I do still post on my platform because of that.

But, , I think that's the big [01:27:00] thing is like, you know, you, you think you're fulfilled, but you're, you're very broken and. You're wanting this attention from all these men because of probably not having the best relationships either, but it's never going to fulfill you the same way as if you have just a loving family who's never going to leave you and thinks the world of you, or now I get a compliment on my cooking.

I'm very happy about that. Like my pride and joy is to make something at a get together and have everybody be like, this is the most amazing thing I've ever had. Um, So, yeah, I think that's the really important thing and I think it's so important for young women to hear nowadays because obviously we're in the day and age of social media where I think when I first, I mean, when I first started, I'm pretty sure it was still Facebook.

I don't even think I was on Instagram at the time. Um, but, you know, we're in the day and age of having a following, but it's like, that's great if you have a following, I'm not against anybody who has a following, but if you're not doing something and it's only to get [01:28:00] rich, like your life is never going to be fulfilled.

And, you know, if it's only to get attention from men, like take it from somebody who had it, it's not all it's cracked up to be, and you're going to be way more fulfilled being in a relationship and seeing your worth and more than just your looks. And that's, um, Lindsay. In fact. Since you brought her up that you had her, she just did a whole post about this and I, I put on there because same thing I want to put my, it makes me uncomfortable, but I want to put my story out there as much as possible.

It's like, take it from somebody who used to get all the attention from men and their body and stuff like that. And like, don't get me wrong. My body's not that far off from what it used to be, but it's never going to be as purposeful as. Like using what I have now and love life and gems for gems and all these people who just think, you know, I'm amazing for being me and saying my story, then using my body to get that same attention.

[01:28:58] Terry: Amen. Amen, man. That's a [01:29:00] sermon right there. That's a sermon right there. I love that. What, , advice then would you give Pamela to a lot of the young women, , maybe even teenagers? I mean, uh, again, working as a marriage and family therapist, I get. Teenage girls and guys that come in and, you know, they're posting stuff online.

They shouldn't be posting. And, , college age students, everything, you know, and it's probably similar to what you just said there, but what advice would you give to someone maybe listening to this right now? And , they're kind of living the lifestyle that you were there getting everything from, you know, the affirmation online, what advice would you give them?

[01:29:39] Pamela: Yeah, I mean, I think I would say always double check something before you post it, because like, literally, I know parents say it all the time. But sometimes you have to hear it from a third party. Like, once it's out there, it's out there forever. Like, I mean, even you watch forensic things nowadays, where they say just because you deleted it doesn't mean we can't get back to it.

So, , I think that's super [01:30:00] important to realize. And you're, unless you are dead set in your values, Once again, take it from somebody who like went to pride parades and stuff and wish I could like fully delete that we ever went there. Um, like unless you're fully set in your things when you post that, like that's, that's attached to you.

And thank goodness I can, you know, admit that I had, I've made mistakes in the past and that I'm not going to be condemned from them. Cause at the end of the day, once again, I don't need anybody's judgment, but one person. 

[01:30:31] Terry: Amen. 

[01:30:31] Pamela: But I think it's so important to. Really think, is this something I want to be associated with in 20 years?

Because I think if people were to tell me that with some of the like men's magazines and things like that, that I did, I think I would have been like, probably not at the time. Maximum FHM sounded great for my career. That was something that like you strive to do. But then I looked back and I'm like, but I had so much more fun if we really want to get down to [01:31:00] it being on fuel TV and, you know, having like these.

It was almost like guy homies that I got to do like acting things with then and getting to do like Interviews at the MMA Awards than ever doing those, you know Because it was something where I was valued for my talent once again, not my body. And so I just wish people would see that Instagram is not what it's meant to be.

You know, just because you have followers, there's so many people who have followers and they're broke, you know, or they're in money struggles. There's so many things going on. So really reach behind the lens and decide like, am I wanting what this person has? Cause that's what I'm seeing. Or is it just because I'm not fulfilled in some way and then find that way to fulfill yourself instead of getting attention elsewhere?

Because. I mean, it's all great in like a day to day thing, but if Instagram goes down tomorrow, what do you have? [01:32:00] And a lot of people forget that, like. That one day, I forget what it was like two or three years ago where it went down for like seven hours. If that's your only source of income, what are you going to do?

Cause it's not forever and your body's not forever and your looks aren't forever. It's literally your personality and your work ethic and your determination. And so, um, I just want people to see like that it's not everything and there's people who are super famous and don't even have an Instagram so clearly it's not everything and we just forget about that because everybody has it now but you know it's it's sad to say but it's like the if you know everybody dropped off jumped off a clip when you do it too.

I mean, if there's famous people who don't have Instagrams, you clearly don't need it to be successful and you just need to figure out your passion and dive into that. And if Instagram helps that amazing, keep doing it. But if it's just to get attention at the end of the day, it's not worth it.

[01:32:55] Terry: yeah, man. Such a good word. Such a good word. I, uh, as you were [01:33:00] talking there, I was just thinking, you know, my wife and I, , haven't been blessed yet to, to have any children, but man, if I had a daughter, I would definitely want you to be one of her role models, Pamela, just with, um, man, how, how God has completely transformed you and, and just the elegance and the grace that you carry yourself with.

I mean, we're, we're talking over a screen, but I can, I can just, you know, sense that off of you. And so. So, , man, thank you for, for all that you're doing, you know, , in, you know, not just social media, but , all your business ventures, all the volunteer stuff that you do, the nonprofits, uh, it's impactful.

What you do matters. It really makes an impact. And my final question for you, Pamela, is as you look back at everything we talked about and you think about the goodness of God through it all, what comes to mind as you think about the goodness of God in your life?

[01:33:50] Pamela: yeah. You know, it's funny. I kind of struck a chord with me when I was talking about, , the very physical relationship I was in, because you forget a lot of things where [01:34:00] you kind of. You block them out. And especially when I was talking about how, like, what a shell of a person I was, and I remember how, like, not confident I was to being somebody who was very nervous, but could speak on a stage in front of people and tell my story.

And. Um, I mean, it's so true of like, God's goodness is, is everything and you're going to go through trials and tribulations, but it's all for one purpose. And, you know, there were times where my husband and I were struggling financially and emotionally and all, and all kinds of stuff that we didn't even talk, get into that happened to us.

And, but I remember just thinking like, you know, if we can get through one more day. And we always do at the end of the day, you always get through one more day. Um, and. I think that's like what it comes down to is [01:35:00] we're so concerned about the future, not even knowing if the future could ever come, where if we could start off our morning, every morning in prayer and in prayer, and then just try to have the best day possible.

I think so many people would be so much happier. And I'm not saying I do that perfectly every single day by any means, but I think so many people would be so much happier because You'll be focusing on the right thing in the morning, focusing on the right thing in the end, and like literally living the day instead of worrying about next week and worrying about that bill and worrying about this travel.

And, and we're just so stuck in what's going to happen instead of just let's enjoy this moment. And I've been trying to get so much better at that, uh, you know, unfortunately I do work from my phone. So putting the phone down and engaging with aid in the moment he says he, he needs it. And that's where I think I've truly seen.

God's goodness is, you know, we don't have it all, but we do when it's [01:36:00] all put into the right perspective. And I don't need to be super wealthy to have an incredible life. And I don't need. You know, we're not broke either, but you just need to focus on the important things and the most beautiful things that you have been blessed with.

And I like the saying that if you're not grateful for a cup of coffee, you're never going to be grateful for a yacht because you know, there, we take so much for granted every day that God gives us at the end of the day, God did give you that coffee. You may have bought it. But he gave it to you and I think that's where it really, if you start to be grateful for the small things, you all of a sudden have a much more joyful and beautiful life and realizing how much he really has done for you instead of focusing on everything that you wanted that he hasn't done for you or that he hasn't done yet because it hasn't been his timing yet.

[01:36:54] Terry: Amen. Amen. I love that. Beautifully said. Beautifully said. Pamela. Where can people find [01:37:00] you? How can they stay in touch and, and keep up to date with what you're

doing? 

[01:37:04] Pamela: Yeah. So I'm on all of the social media platforms at Pamela Jean Noble, super original. Um, and then my, um, website is pamelajeannoble. com. Um, but I'm probably the most active on Instagram and Facebook and I answer every single Instagram DM I've ever sent as long as it's appropriate. Um, so if anybody like needs to talk or needs.

You know, somebody to like advice, whatever it may be. Um, I truly want to be that like helping source. , and so if anybody needs to reach out and they DM me, I promise that we'll get a message back.

[01:37:42] Terry: That's amazing. That's amazing. I, again, I'll post your, your social media handles in the show notes. Give Pamela a follow, support what she's doing. Pamela. Again, this has been just amazing. Thank you so much for coming on and God bless everything that you're doing. Keep at it. Like I said before, what you do , is [01:38:00] impactful.

It matters. And I'm just praying that God will continue to expand, you know, what you're doing , and just continue to bless everything that, that you're doing for him in the

kingdom. 

[01:38:11] Pamela: Thank you. That's so kind of you. And thank you for having me. And this was amazing.