Autistic Adults, Independence & the System That Fails Them: April Ratchford talks to Dr. Inyang Takon

For many autistic young people, turning 18 means one thing: the end of support. The services, the structure, the familiar professionals? Gone. Left with a piece of paper for vocational rehabilitation and a world that was never designed with
them in mind.

In this episode, Dr. Inyang Takon speaks with April Ratchford, autistic occupational therapist and host of the global recognised Adulting with Autism podcast. A mum of an Autistic son herself, she discusses what it really looks like to support autistic people through adulthood. 

April's story is disarmingly honest, practically grounded, and full of hard-won wisdom.

KEY TAKEAWAYS:

• The transition cliff at 18 is a systemic failure, not a personal one. Autistic young people don't stop needing support because they've had a birthday.
• Occupational therapy is one of the most practical and underused tools for autistic adults - covering executive functioning, community skills, employment readiness, and daily living.
• Many parents don't know that OT and speech services can legally continue until age 21. This information gap costs families dearly.
• Independence is built gradually, not handed over at graduation. A first job at the supermarket, riding a bus in a new town, solving a problem without calling mum? These are the real milestones.
• Mental health is a serious and often underestimated challenge for autistic adults. New freedoms (including alcohol at 21) can create new risks. Proactive support and updated coping strategies are essential.
• Failure is not always what it looks like. April's son's first college semester was 'unsuccessful' by grade metrics - but he made friends, gained independence, and returned in spring with a 3.08 GPA.
• The medical model was built for children but not Autistic adults - and the professionals who support them need to push back against the assumption that support ends at 18.

ABOUT APRIL RATCHFORD:
April Ratchford is an autistic occupational therapist with nearly 30 years of healthcare experience and the host of the globally recognised Adulting with Autism podcast (250+ episodes). As both a clinician and the mother of an autistic adult son, April offers a unique blend of professional expertise and lived experience.

CONNECT WITH APRIL:
Website: https://www.adultingwithautism.com/
Podcast: https://anchor.fm/adultingwithautism
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/adulting_autism/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61571440840115

ABOUT EARLY INTERVENTION MATTERS:
Hosted by Dr. Inyang Takon, Consultant Neurodevelopmental Paediatrician, UK. New episodes weekly

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome back to Early Intervention Matters, the podcast that helps parents, teachers and health professionals understand the diagnosis, treatment, care, and support of children with autism, ADHD, Tourettes, and other neurodevelopmental challenges. Your host, Dr. In Yang Takon, is a consultant and neurodevelopment pediatrician. And she will provide insight through interviews, answering questions, and breaking down complicated topics. By sharing stories from parents and professionals in the field, we hope to make sense of what can be an overwhelming topic. Early intervention is crucial for children with developmental difficulties. Yes, early intervention matters. And now, here's your host, Dr. Inyan Tagon.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

Hello, good evening, everybody. You're welcome to Early Intervention Matters Podcast. And this is a platform where we meet to discuss topics related to neurodiversity. And this podcast is available to everyone, really parents, carers, professionals, members of the public. So we're really pleased today to have a lovely guest. We're really pleased that she's come to join us and share her story, which I'm sure many of us will be very eager to listen to because it's one of the challenges we face every day. So I'm Dr. Iang Takon, I'm consultant neurodevelopmental pediatrician and host of Early Intervention Matters Podcast. So I'm so happy to welcome April with us. And I'm going to allow April to introduce herself. She's joining us all the way from the United States, and we're really pleased to have her. So you're welcome, April. Thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Thank you so much for inviting me because it's a very needed topic that gets overlooked.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

Yeah. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

Can you introduce yourself to our audience? Sure. So my name is April Ratchford. I am a licensed occupational therapist here in Kentucky, in the United States. I was late diagnosed autistic, figuring it out as I started the podcast. Prior to becoming an occupational therapist, I was a nurse for 16 years and switched my major when my son finally got his diagnosis. My entire family is autistic. My sister is an autistic Audi. Her son is autistic. Daughter's autistic, and her youngest son is also autistic, but every single one of them have degrees. And I started this podcast for my own son because he had difficulty transitioning from high school into the adulthood. There was no transition for him. They gave us a piece of paper for book rehab, and that was it. And I was like, I'm sorry. That's it. I because by profession, I do long-term care rehab. I don't do anything with pediatrics. And so I had to get out here and OT my own kid because there was nobody out there to do it for him. He ended up going to college after I kept him out for a year because he wasn't mature enough to do his ADLs on his own. He went to college, did horribly the first time around at 19. And that's due to a lot of executive functioning, the maturity that when you're on a college campus, you are fully independent. So your schedule is your own. He failed out. He came home. He was depressed. He was sad because he wanted to do so much. He had dreams of his own. He wanted to be a video game designer. So I had to figure out how do I get him from A to B. And what I made him get a job so he would have to interact with people and understand you can't just lay around and play video games all day. I'm not going to be here forever. So he worked at Kroger's for a couple of years and then he realized this is not what I want to do for the rest of my life. I was like, great, you got the picture. We figured out there are universities here in the United States that have autism-specific supports. And he ended up being accepted at Marshall University, who I am so grateful for. They really cater to their neurodivergent population. So, like when other schools shut down for holidays, they don't. They allow the students to keep staying on the campus and keep on schedule. They just have the housing now. They're staying, and so their meal carp isn't shut off. So my son did that. His first semester didn't go as well as he would like grade-wise, but I told him, I'm proud of you. You've made friends outside of a computer. You learned how to ride a bus in a different town. You don't call me anymore. You handle it yourself. You're advocating for yourself. You didn't fail. So this spring semester, he figured it out, and he came back with a 3.08 GPA. And he's now in summer school toting an A in English.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Wow, that's that's an awesome story. Congratulations, April. Thank you. And I'm so pleased that this is the reason why I brought you here. Because I connected with you on Podmat. And because of my field of neurodevelopmental pediatrics, one of the difficulties that we face is actually long-term. We're very much in the medical model, and we see people, we do the assessment, we do the diagnosis. Part of my frustrations had always been the holistic support for young people going through this journey. Now the diagnosis, yes, you get the diagnosis, but what happens after? And one of the things that used to break my heart was when, exactly as you said, when you received your transition to adulthood, is like, is that it? When I saw the face of the young people just drop and the parents just feeling, so what's going to happen? You could see the heart sink in a lot of the families. And I would never forget a young boy who, you know, it almost challenged me when he was being discharged, when he'd been seeing me for a long time. And the mother said, This is the last time you're going to see Dr. Tackle. He said, Why? And the mother was explaining you're going to adult services. He said, But I'm not ready to go yet. And the mother said, Well, when you turn 18, you have to go. And he said, No, but does everything just change when I'm 18? You know, I still got the difficulties I had before. And that really stuck with me for a long time because he was right. And all the things he was saying was right. And there was nothing else that was going with him. And people were just dropping them from other services. Oh, you're 18 now, so bye. And I just kept feeling for these families because they the truth is they were going to now and navigate the world on their own. And so when I saw your podcast, I said, I really want April to come in and speak to our audience. So you you've told us what led you into occupational therapy and podcasting. How has your lived experience shaped the way you understand autism compared with just anybody having the training?

SPEAKER_02 8:03

So what I've really discovered is when you go through school, you get a lot of the pediatric, you get a lot of the medical model, but we forget that they're turning into adults. So their brains are still growing, not going to be 25 before the brains fully stop growing, but you know, they still are mature-wise behind their tears. So my thing was why is this a huge drop-off? Where are the other therapists? I'm like, they still need us. They need executive functioning skills, they need the social skills, they need to know there's still nothing wrong with them. They're just fine. They just have to think a little bit different outside the box. And that they can get to where they're going. We just have to figure out a way to get them there. We did it when they were kids. Why can't we do it when they're adults?

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and we've created this age, which when we actually look at things, we shouldn't really be sending them off at 18 in the technical neuroscience side of things, because we know that their functions are behind compared to a child of chronological age. So we technically shouldn't be doing that. But, you know, the systems and everything, we've got a lot of problems here in the United Kingdom. I don't know whether it's the same in the US.

SPEAKER_02 9:39

It is very much the same because even though they can technically be pediatric until they're 21, many parents don't know that. They don't know, they're like, well, what does occupational therapy and speech do for my kid after 18? And I'm like, a whole lot. We can take them into the community and teach them how to grocery shop, bills, executive functioning, what jobs fit them, what jobs they shouldn't have. Get them out of the house so they know there's a whole world out there besides the computer. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 10:18

And that's what happens. They now get stuck on the computer. And I like the way you got your son out to go and face the realities of life and start with a job first. And through that, he was motivated to say, I want something more. But if you hadn't exposed him to that, he wouldn't have had that opportunity. He would be at home on the video game.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

I was like, So listen, I'm gonna die one day. What are you gonna do? These are things the kids don't think about. I'm not gonna be on this planet and nobody's gonna take care of you. Would you like to live in a nursing home? Because that's where this is heading. And he's like, You mean that place you work in? I was like, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

He's like, I don't want to live there. Well, we have to make some changes then. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:06

With your podcast, you focus on realities of autistic adulthood, and that's brilliant. It's really good. What are the biggest gaps that you see how autism is discussed in childhood and what autistic adults experience later in life? What are the gaps?

SPEAKER_02 11:22

What people don't understand is they are gonna have to face mental health challenges. They're gonna feel awkward. But here's the other thing some of them are 21. So that means they can drink. And when you start drinking, you're like, hey, I feel a little bit better about myself. My personality is great. Then we go into a whole new diatribe of something else. And it could be food, it could be TV. So we have to start teaching them listen, the things that work for you as a kid is not gonna work for you as an adult. You have to have different coping mechanisms because you are no longer the kid. You've got to manage your own nervous system. You've got to figure out what do I need to keep me on even kill. So I'm not loping out everywhere. What services do I need to help me feel good about myself? Because mental health is a big thing. They just don't have autism. Some of them have ADHD, some of them have depression, some still have anxiety, some have schizophrenia. They still need those services. And they need to understand that there are neurodivergent counselors and therapists out there that understand what autism is and what it means and how to navigate any other comorbidities that they may have. Because they're not the same as their peers.

SPEAKER_03 12:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

Everything is elevated.

SPEAKER_01 13:00

And that's true. But I reflect on this with my clinical work because a lot of what I'm really pleased about, the podcast sessions, it just helps me look at our my clinical work, what happens. We work according to guidelines and plans of what we're expected to do. So even when you know that that young person needs more, you're bound by the system. You can't do much more than what the system has programmed you to do. And it's such a clinical model that a young person comes in and is like, okay, that's done. You go away. It's even much more difficult now because of the demand for the services. We don't even see them for long-term review. So once we do the diagnostic assessments and we give them the diagnosis, many of them are discharged except they have any other comorbidities like ADHD. So what happens, we never see these young people again. And many of them are at school where nobody gives them that personalized care. And so I think the dangers of transition is even worse now because things have even contracted so much that the resources out there are not even there for them. So parents are literally left navigating most of this on their own, which is really sad.

SPEAKER_02 14:23

And so, from your adult focused perspective, what should we be doing preparing children with autism from the very beginning to learn to advocate for themselves and let them know your meltdowns are your guidance system? That's how you know stuff is wrong. Because we've always taught them, okay, you're melting down. You shouldn't be doing that. That's not cool. Or if they need fidgets, that's not normal. You don't need that. What are you talking about? I'm at work, and if I feel the need, I will spin in my chair just to get my input. But we also need to prepare like educators and the parents, saying, okay, what do we need to do to make sure they're independent and not handheld? And they should have the same opportunities as their peers in middle school to figure out their path. Like if they want to do video game design, I know that cringes for most parents, but some of them love that aspect because it does give a solo, I ain't gonna mess with anybody. It gives them an option. And not just say, okay, 18 parents, go. Because the parents still need us. Because they're like, I'm not a therapist, and I get it, because I'm a therapist, and I was like, I don't do cheats. What am I supposed to do with this kid? It's exhausting.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

It is, it is, and if it's a a family that have more than one, you can imagine how challenging it is without the support, because there is having to support your autistic child, and then you've got other children who don't really understand. And it is quite a lot. And I think this is one thing that we don't really think about when we're faced with families that they have this journey to go through. And so, if you could change one thing about how early intervention services support autistic children, what would be your recommendation?

SPEAKER_02 16:35

Let them have insurances for coaches and therapists online. We have everything else here. We're podcasting from two different countries. They can talk to neurodivergent adults that understand them and understand what their nervous system is going through and help them get to where they want to be. We need more therapists out after 18 working with young adults. They want to be independent. They just don't know how. And we can show them the way.

SPEAKER_01 17:09

Absolutely. I love that message. They want to be independent, they don't know how. And isn't it sad that at the time when they really need that help, that that help drops off? Right. It is quite sad when you think about it that they are getting parental guidance to a particular age. And at the time, they need that support to actually navigate independence. Even for a neurotypical child, independence is not easy. So you can imagine a child with autism trying to navigate that without the support. It's quite hard. And just for our audience, April, what would you define as independence?

SPEAKER_02 17:52

Independence, in my opinion, is when they're able to perform tasks on their own, but realize I need help and initiate, hey, I need your help to help me understand what everything is going on. Because if we don't teach them that, they're gonna sit here and they're gonna bomb. And then they're gonna feel worse.

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah. And so what do you recommend as practical strategies that families can use to support daily living skills without overwhelming the child?

SPEAKER_02 18:28

So you have to be realistic where your child is. Because as parents, we have this elevated sense of where we think our child is versus where are they really? What do they need help with? Because for my son, I knew he was smart. I knew he was brilliant. Yet we were not doing our own laundry and brushing our teeth and taking a shower. And I was like, okay, you have to start small and build. Like once they can write out their own schedule, teach them. Adults do this all the time. Write out our schedules. Keep writing your schedule and stay on it.

SPEAKER_03 19:09

And they will get it.

SPEAKER_02 19:11

Just take one task at a time and understand they also know they're adults. So you may get some little pushback because they know they're adults. Don't throw punch your kid because I wanted to throw-punch mine. But they are young adults. You cannot treat them as children anymore. So when they ask you a pertinent question about your parenting skills, you gotta explain it to them like an adult, even though you want to shake them. Treat them as adults and respect them. And they will get it. They will be like, you know, I think I do some things. And don't feel like you have to rush them out of your house. That is like the thing we have taught in Western society. 18, bye. But my 27-year-old nephew is still living with my sister. And my sister's fine with it. He pays rent and he's just teachers out. You don't have to kick them out. You don't have to follow anybody's rules. There was no rule. I don't know why we made the rule. 18, get out. If they have your support, they will get there. It's challenging, especially when you've had multiple children because some of them may still be in school. Yeah. And you're exhausted. And I'm gonna tell you a secret.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

Kids listen to other kids. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:44

So get them involved. Because if they feel isolated and they're like, well, he's getting all the attention because it's a thing. The other kids feel like they're just in darkness. Get them involved. Say, hey, why don't you help your brother do laundry? Show him how they do it. So he can understand how they do it. And sometimes that really works because not only are you helping your autistic child, you're making your other children feel like they have a purpose.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

They're purpose, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:21

So you're on the sat lines, and oh, mom's gonna just see me when she's done.

SPEAKER_01 21:26

Yeah, that's so true. Thank you so much. You talk about trauma-informed and neurodivergent, safe conversations. What what does this mean in practice?

SPEAKER_02 21:37

So we've always been taught trauma is this big thing, like something horrible, like assault or death. Well, they're little traumas and they carry. Especially when they get bullied, they they carry that. That's a trauma. Yes. Somebody yells. At them and tells them they're stupid. That's a trauma. Yes. Every time they get hit, even though you didn't mean it, you were just doing it because they've done something that they shouldn't do, trauma. So just because you haven't seen this huge issue, it's many issues that build up over time. And if they can't get over those issues, that's when they need trauma-informed therapists the most. Yes. They won't succeed without dealing with the trauma first.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah. That's very true. And um yes, I recently had a young person who started having a lot more difficulties in terms of emotionally and mentally. And the mother was saying that she noticed a change around the time she'd had a lot of bereavement. You know, he was very close to his nan, and then nan passed away, and then he had a lot of trauma from there. But apart from that, she believes part of the trauma came from the school that he had been in and the way that eventually he had to be taken out of school because things were being much more difficult. And now and again he would wake up in the night and begin to repeat some words, but he couldn't actually say what specifically had happened. Rather, he would sometimes say sibling had, you know, hit him and all that, which they hadn't. So there's been some trauma there that this young person is processing and has not been able to move from it. And it's quite sad because then you think, do people really realize that when we say these things to them or do these things that it does stick for a long time?

SPEAKER_02 23:51

I don't think people realize that. They think, oh, they're adults, they just forgot it. And like, that's not how that works for autistic people. We carry that in our nervous system. It doesn't go away. My son remembers trauma all the way back to elementary school, and he's 24 now, and he can say who it was, the date, and I'm like, you're still holding on to that. I think we need to drop it. He said, I'm seeing my therapist on campus. I'm like, well, that's a good thing. But I don't think we realized that that carries. And that's one thing I think we failed them is that we didn't realize these things carry with them. They just don't forget. We shouldn't brush it to the side.

SPEAKER_03 24:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:39

Absolutely. So, what would you advise teachers? How would you advise that culture to make I don't think people talk about it enough. I don't think in the training and teaching and all that, people realize the impact of this enough.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

I feel like educators, they're giving this a lot of kids. And you may have ADHD, you may have autism, you may have one that is intellectual disability. But one thing that we always learn, kids learn from other kids. So if you don't single out the one kid and you make them do whatever it is as a class, that totally normalizes it. When I was doing first steps, I would go to the daycares and I wouldn't just have the kid by himself. I took his whole class and redid all the things I would do with an autistic child. And it ended up that kid started speaking. Because the other kids they follow just their kids. So they're gonna follow whatever other kids do. So we can just get educators to understand hey, if you have a plan from the occupational therapist or the occupational therapist is coming to the classroom, have them address the class because they don't get enough movement, they don't get enough time outside. And you'll see some changes in behaviors. And sometimes you just have to explain to kids, hey, everybody's nervous system is different. How do you feel today? Make them feel like individual people and bring them together, don't separate them out.

SPEAKER_01 26:28

That's so powerful and such great advice. And I just hope our audience are listening because these are conversations that people don't tend to have about how much this is so important and the lasting impact that it can have on the young person. And when I see young people, many of them have refused to leave the house, many of them have dropped out of school. And you can think, what is the outcome?

SPEAKER_02 26:57

Outcomes can always be changed. We just have to understand that not everything is gonna fit our autistic kid, right? It's not gonna just fit. But they can still thrive and they can still be independent. We just see it as a different way. So it's it may not be he can live by himself and pay the bills. It may be he can live by himself because he can do all his ADLs and go to his job, but you have to pay the bills so he doesn't get overwhelmed. And you can set up like trust for those kids for after you're gone. So that continues and they can continue to be individuals and individual adults. Some kids they just don't want to leave home. They like home, home is safe. Don't feel it like you have to throw them out, let them be an adult in your house. I mean, does it exactly?

SPEAKER_01 27:55

Exactly. And like you said, there's just this rough to say, oh no, they have to go and live independently. Why? If that's not what they're really pushing out for, they can be independent and still live in your house. You know, uh, you don't have to set that magic cut of age for them to go away from your conversations. There needs to be more emphasis on making sure people with autism are thriving. And uh, in terms of parents, what should parents begin to do in terms of advocating for their child? Because there are barriers. You know, lots of barriers in society. We've talked about some of that.

SPEAKER_02 28:36

Yeah, and it's tough for the parents because they know they know their kid better than we do. I would say if they're in school and they have occupational therapists, you demand that therapist to prep him. This is what's gonna happen once you're finished with school. What do you want? Give them the choice. Therapists need to teach them, okay, you need to advocate for yourself. How could you advocate if your parents weren't there? Parents do enough at home and they're stressed out, they're like PTSD because you know your phone's right there, and you're like, there's a phone ringing. What happened now? It's our duty as therapists to get them ready and transition and explain what transition means. Because I think a lot of them, they're just going through school and then 18 happens and they're like, wait, what? We need to teach them earlier, younger. Say, listen, things are not always gonna be the way they are now, and start watching what they love and what they'd like to do because that could be a career for them. So just because they love anime, that's their thing, well, how do you know they can't create anime? How do you know they can't write it? Create those pathways for them. Here in America, there is a company called AspiroTech that offers free CIT classes for autistic students online. So if they love computers and they like taking stuff apart, or they're like data analysis, they can do that. Those programs are out there. We just have to get them out there so parents don't feel like, well, what's he gonna do? They can do a lot of things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:28

That's one question I hear a lot from families, and which is usually heartbreaking. And exactly what you said, I say to them, what's his interest? What what is the thing that he likes doing? Then let's begin to see how you can build pathways for them around that. Because uh that conversation usually comes in such a late time for families because they're only beginning to think about it way down the road. And some of them will say, Oh, I never really thought about that. I've heard that many times. I never really thought about that. What do you advise? When when should they start thinking about this?

SPEAKER_02 31:07

The day they're born. If I had known this was gonna happen at 18, I would have done things differently. I would have prepped, I would have pushed, I would have been like, okay, kid, you're in middle school. What do you want to do? Well, I don't know what I want to do. Well, what do you like? And go from there. Have them come into their IEP meetings because most of the time they don't come in until they're much older. I'm like, well, that's a little late. Get them in sooner so they understand who these people are, why they're there, and let them have their voice. Because to them, everybody else is planning their future. And that's what they think. But they should be planning their own future. So let them go in and do what they want. Will it change? Absolutely. How many times have you changed your majors in college? Well, they're gonna change.

SPEAKER_01 32:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:00

As long as they're part of the process, you will get a much better outcome.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

And I like what you said. You should start thinking about it from the moment they're born and start thinking about it longitudinally and things because it just comes up on them without them thinking about it. So, how are things with your son now? And he's doing well.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

He is. He is, I'm quite proud of him because he used to feel like, Mom, I failed out of school twice. And I looked at him, I said, I did it five times before I got it right. They're fine. But he's in school, he's navigating, he's learning to manage money in a credit card. He learned that the hard way when I yelled at him and like, you can't DoorDash. Mommy's paying for this. But he's learning to manage his time between at that class. Okay, I have downtime. Maybe I can play on my laptop for like an hour just to decompress. He showers every day. The only time I ever hear from him is if he's having trouble with his financial aid. And that's a confusing process in itself. And I'm fine with that. But other than that, I don't hear from him. He's out doing whatever he wants to do. He's had friends that had cars, because he doesn't drive. He's not interested. And I'm like, fine, find a city that has public transportation. But he's learning to interact with people and have real friendships and learn what it means to be a part of something other than yourself. Because his major is computer science and engineering. And that means engineers, computer students, they have one building and they're just one big group. And so he's learning to be a part of the group.

SPEAKER_01 33:49

That's amazing.

SPEAKER_02 33:50

Must be very proud of him. I am very proud of him. Was it easy? Absolutely not. Because I didn't think I was he would make it to 18. I'm not saying they're not going to be challenging. Lord knows that boy was, but they will get there. I promise, they will get there. He's 24. I'm like, we're at that 25 peak. That's great.

SPEAKER_01 34:16

For you as an adult with autism, do you get that support from work and you know?

SPEAKER_02 34:23

Lord, no. I was born in 76. So for late-diagnosed people as old as I am, they didn't understand what that was. Like, I used to have terrible anxiety speaking in front of people that it would give me ulcers. And the doctor's like, she just has extra acid. We'll just give her some tums. And I was like, what kid has that much anxiety? That their stomach lining is bad. But I've come to realize that if I had been diagnosed high-functioning autism, it would just be a label. And then that would just hold me back. So I just do what I do. And I go to work, I tell people I'm not in the mood, the mask is off. Don't, don't try. But I just like if I need time away, I will sit in my house.

SPEAKER_03 35:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

The emphasis has been so much, okay, let's get the diagnosis, let's get the diagnosis. But I think the world needs to move on to say, yes, people have the diagnosis so that you can understand them better. But now the real work starts in terms of how are you going to support this young people to become independent young adults functioning in society? And I think that's where it needs to move to. You were diagnosed as an adult. What was it like that journey before you got diagnosed? And what led to that point where you then got assessed and diagnosed? And did it make any difference?

SPEAKER_02 36:00

It gave me aha moments and it made me think: what if I had supports in place in school? Would I have failed five times out of college? Would I have like the capacity to understand bills, credit, all these things? But also what she was saying about masking is that it's okay to mask. And we teach our kids this when they're young, because what parent hasn't said, I need you to hold it together in school, and then you can let it go when you get home. We were teaching them to mask to kind of mimic other students and not be themselves, and then expect them to function. That's exhausting. Like as an occupational therapist, I have to be professional. I have to say things professionally, explain things to parents who get on my nerves or temptations that get on my nerves. And then when I get home, it's verbal diarrhea because I'm home. But we have to understand kids are masking at school. They may mask at their jobs. We need to make home safe that they can be themselves. And that's what I learned with my kid as an autistic adult. He was masking in school, but when he got home, he was just a hyper weird little kid. And I was fine with that. I just needed him to hold it together in school. You just need to know home is safe. This is safe. And to find people they feel safe with to take their mask off.

SPEAKER_03 37:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:44

Not everybody gets the opportunity to know you.

SPEAKER_03 37:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:49

That's earned.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah. But what about you for you? Would you say you were masking a lot before you got your diagnosis?

SPEAKER_02 37:56

I would try to fit in with other kids. So whatever they liked, I liked. And I didn't want to step out and be too weird because everybody knew I was a little different, but they didn't know why. I didn't know why. But I would just mimic things just so I could fit in. So I wouldn't stand out. And I didn't realize how exhausting that was. Because every day from school, even in high school, I would have to take a nap for like two hours. And I didn't understand why. I was like, I don't understand why I have to nap. My mom was like, I don't understand why you take a nap either. But it's because I was masking all day. And then once I got into being a professional, because as an occupational therapist, you think, okay, eventually I'll be a director of rehab. I'll run my own team. I trashed and burned at that. I've been fired from jobs and been horrified of why I've been fired. And it's devastating to get fired if you don't know you're autistic because you can't explain why you do the things you do or why you say the things you say.

SPEAKER_03 39:09

So if anybody's gotten fired from a job, it's okay. I've been fired from two. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

And so when you then have the diagnosis, did it help people to understand you better? Actually, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 39:26

They're like, oh, that's why you do the thing. Yeah, that's why I do the thing. That's why I have verbal diarrhea when I'm extremely tired. Or if I didn't take my meds that day, I'll let people not be.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

Yeah, thank you for sharing that with us. So it just helps to appreciate this from the perspective of someone with that lived experience to actually understand what it feels like. And that would also help us understand what our children are going through on a daily basis. And like you said, you've actually said it spot on. Many parents will tell their children as they walk out of the door, hold it together, make sure you do this. Parents give their children several dunts and don'ts and don'ts as they're getting into school. Just imagine that child just struggling through the day, not being their usual self, but trying to remember all those things that you've told them not to do. And then the minute they come out of school, they just let it out. They are completely decompressed. And I think it's very important for us to understand what is happening to everything that young person is exposed to during the day and why they feel the way they do. So thank you so much for sharing. Now, talking about your podcast, which has been very, very successful with millions of downloads. Why do you think people are hungry to hear when it comes to autism?

SPEAKER_02 40:55

I think it's because a lot of people have never met an autistic occupational therapist. Because a lot of the times we hide who we are because we're supposed to be therapists and we can't be weird. And when I run my podcast, I just say whatever I want. And I let my guests say whatever they need to say. It's not cutesy, it's not very overprepared. It's in your face, understanding why you do the things you do. And what happens when you try to rearrange your own self just to fit in a box that you don't need to fit into? So I make it so laid back. And I always have my son in mind when I do my podcast. I'm like, would he listen to this? And I'm like, yeah, he might listen to this episode. So that's how I run it. How would my son take this podcast?

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Well, Donnie, I've listened to some of the episodes. I've found them really, really good. And you are doing such a great job with the advocacy that you're doing because people need to hear this, and people need to hear it from people who actually live it and people who have been on that journey. Because as you know, um, we're in the area of a lot of people who can go online and say things that they don't really know about.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

Right.

SPEAKER_01 42:21

There's a flurry of that out there, and you know, people get confusing messages. So it's good to have an authentic voice like yours, April, because you are doing something really great for the community, for everyone. And families feel empowered because it's not going to be another person just talking about something they know nothing about. You have worked this journey, you have gone through it, and you're very frank and honest with it. And so they just know I'm not alone in it and giving them hope. I have learned so much, even from listening to you as a clinician who's been doing this for over 20 years, because it's an honest gap that happens. I feel completely paralyzed when families are asking me questions in the clinic room. Dr. What happens? So this is it. What happens? And I'm sitting down there because I don't know what happens. I don't know where they can get that help. I don't really know. And I do want to help them, but there's no nothing to signpost them to, or some practical advice to give to them. And that's why I really appreciate you coming on to share this with us. What would you say to your younger self?

SPEAKER_02 43:35

Girl, you're fine. Just be you and follow what you really want to do. You're just fine. Figure out what you want to do. You don't have to go to college if you don't want to.

SPEAKER_03 43:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:47

Like you can go later.

SPEAKER_01 43:50

So yeah, absolutely.

unknown 43:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

And so, what would be the advice for parents? Your last advice for parents were Listening to this, who want to support their young people better? What can they start doing differently? So someone will be listening to this and think, gosh, I like what she said. What can I do?

SPEAKER_02 44:09

Is it too late to start? It is never too late to start. And really sit down with your kid and say, What do you want for your life? And sometimes that makes them really think. And they start talking and get to know your kid. Because we're so busy being parents, we don't know who they are. Say, hey, what do you like? List all the things you like. And they will be so grateful for it.

SPEAKER_01 44:39

Because sometimes nobody has ever asked them that question. Mm-hmm. No one's ever asked. Yeah, it's true. And they've kind of lived this life of dependence. Nobody's ever asked them. And for professionals, what would you say? So professionals who are looking after, young people with autism, clinicians, therapists, what would you say to them?

SPEAKER_02 45:03

It's time we prepare them for their future. Like we would any other kid. Because they do have futures after 18.

SPEAKER_01 45:13

Thank you. That is such a powerful. And in our conversation today, I just said, why are we just putting an arbitrary number? And when they get there, it's almost like, yeah, you're gone. That's, you know, what happens? And and this is a question I'm asking everyone here listening to reflect on that. 18 is it doesn't stop their their growth and their learning. They need to be able to learn that independence. And I hope everyone that's listened to April has, you know, taken something out of this to go back and support these young people who want to grow to be independent people. So how can we uh find you? How can listeners find your podcast? How can they follow your work, your resources?

SPEAKER_02 46:04

So I actually created a website for once, and it's adultingwithautism.com. It lists a lot of the things that I really liked from guests, where they're created cards, books. I've listed some coaches because some of the coaches will do sliding scale if you don't have the money and they're neurodivergent. I'm on Apple, Spotify. If you've got a podcast, I'm probably on it. So everywhere podcasts are played. I'm on Instagram and Facebook, but I usually just post my episodes downloads there.

SPEAKER_03 46:39

But you can find me.

unknown 46:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:44

And I won't answer.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yes, yes. And I've listened, I would like to encourage everyone to find April and listen to her episodes because her episodes are good and she talks real stuff about adulting with autism. And we will also put those links when the podcast comes out. So I just want to thank April one more time. Thank you so much for this inspiring conversation. It's also a conversation that's made me reflect on my own practice as well. And I'm sure many clinicians listening will be reflecting on their practice. And there is a message for us. We need to change how we look at transitioning to adulthood. We need to look at things differently because these young people have a life ahead of them. They want to be independent, they want to have a job, they want to have a sense of purpose, a sense of achievement. And we should be there facilitating this. And we shouldn't wait until that time when they're crossing 18. We should actually start earlier because the narrative will change. And so thank you so much, April, for sharing this powerful message with us today. Uh, we're so grateful, and we look forward to having you back again at some point in the future. We've absolutely enjoyed this. Yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_03 48:05

Thank you so much for having me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:10

As we always say, early intervention leads to better outcome. And early intervention can only be achieved by early diagnosis. So thank you for listening into the series today. Um, I know some of the things we've talked about today would probably have generated some questions or need to see clarification. So I'm happy to take questions and I'll invite you to send your questions to em at drtakon.com. Thank you for listening.