Episode 62 - Danny Wood - Why Jesus?

Danny Wood joins the podcast to answer the question of "Why Jesus?" and discusses how that question impacted his decision to shepherd Shades Mountain Baptist Church for 24 years.

Danny Wood most definitely went to Samford University and I'm honored to have him on this podcast.

Danny graduated from Auburn University, worked at South Central Bell (now AT&T), attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, later became the pastor at First Baptist Church in Rustin, Louisiana, and most recently pastor at Shades Mountain Baptist Church in Vestavia, Alabama.

Transcript

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All right, everybody. Welcome back to another episode of Jake and friends. As always, I've got Parker Sanders here, who's joining from the Eastern shore, but actually you're in Troy, Alabama today. It's your parents house. Um, so Parker's been with us for about 10 episodes. Now it's no 11. This will be your 12th episode full time. So, um, and our special guest today is, uh, pastor emeritus. Danny would Danny is born and was born in Birmingham, but raised in Atlanta, um, graduated from Auburn University, War Eagle, not saying for that. Uh, and returned to Birmingham later to work at, uh, South Central Bell, which is now AT& T. Um, Danny taught the singles class at Shades Mountain Baptist Church alongside his wife Janice. And then they, or Danny attended Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary in Fort Worth, Texas, and later became the pastor at First Baptist Church in Ruston, Louisiana. Don't know the exact years you were there, but fast forward to 1997, and then you are named the pastor at Shades Mountain Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, until your retirement in August in 2021. And then you are named the pastor at Shades Mountain Baptist Church in Birmingham, Alabama, until your retirement in August in 2021. Um, and you were the pastor there for 24 years. Uh, so Danny, welcome. Thank you for hanging out with us tonight. Um, did I get all that right? Yeah, you really did. Uh, that was, uh, that's about as complete as you can get. Uh, how long were you in Ruston, Louisiana? Uh, we were there, uh, eight and a half years. There's something about eight and a half. I was um, Uh worked for the phone company eight and a half years and then I was pastor in rustin for eight and a half years So, uh, it was great. It was a lot of fun. So were you praying a lot during your eight and a half? Years at shades and you're like, I don't know. It's now the time to leave and go somewhere else or Well, uh, we we really love rustin. Rustin was almost like auburn It was a college town where louisiana tech university is and uh an engrambling university about five miles from that So we really had had two colleges there. Uh, we were at first baptist church We were downtown and we were just like a mile from the campus So we So we had an opportunity to impact hundreds of college students in a smaller town, probably had about 20, 22, 000 people. Uh, just a lot of fun and I enjoyed it. God did an amazing work through that church. Uh, it was, it was a little shaky when we got there and God did a great work and, and we loved it. Uh, our, our daughter was born there. And, um, uh, but it came time that, uh, when Dr. Carter at Shades Mountain Baptist Church, when he decided to retire, then that's when they contacted us. And we prayed about it and felt that the time was right. And, uh, let's go, let's go give it a shot. But we really enjoyed our, our, our time there. Yes. That's awesome. So we, we walk through sort of how that happened. How did they, did they just pick up the phone and call you 1 day and just say, hey, Danny, we know you from shades and knew you went to seminary. Do you want to come back? Well, we, when we were there, Dr. Carter, Charles Carter was the pastor. And when I joined, he was, he put an interest in me and invested his life into me. And, um, I got an opportunity to teach a singles ministry and, um, and, and God really honored that in that, uh, we were, we, we probably had about like 70 or 80 that were coming to the class and then we split it and we had younger and older. And, uh, so I taught the singles from 20 to 28, and we grew to about 150 people that were meeting on Sunday mornings. In an old chapel that seated 125. So singles love it. They're real close to each other. And, um, and we, and we saw that and Dr. Carter and I talked and I, at one time had thought about going into ministry and I was kind of back and forth on it. So he really encouraged me along the way. And, uh, so it, um, you know, so he and I maintained a really strong, a strong relationship. And, um, uh, It is 83. There was a divestiture of AT& T took place. And if you know your history books, the AT& T was like a monopoly. And then they divested it. And we had the opportunity to move to Mobile, Alabama. And we went with American Bell Company. We opened up a branch office in Mobile. I was a sales manager. We had another sales manager and then our district manager. And we loved it. I mean, Janice and I. She got to quit work. We built our dream house. She's an artist. So we put a art studio in the house and we're, you know, maybe 30 minutes from the beach. We love the beach. So I made the statement to God. Once we got there in March, I said, you can take my resume and throw it away. Uh, this is where we're going to be. We have arrived and we're loving it. And, uh, and you know, Jake, that was true for four months. And, uh, in the summer, uh, God just got ahold of me and, uh, some things, different things happen, opportunities. And, uh, for me, it was that, um, God was calling me to have something that had more of an eternal significance. And, um, I knew that he was gifted me from a teaching standpoint and because we were part of the church and mobile. So singles ministry grow. And, um, I remember telling people, I said, you know, I've worked at the phone code for 8 years and, uh, I've never had 1 person call me at night. So, hey. That PBX system you sold me, it changed my life. I mean, my marriage is strong in life. And I said, but yeah, I wouldn't have people from a Sunday school lesson would come and say, God really spoke through you and help me to go through you fill in the blank. So, uh, that kind of, that kind of drove us. We prayed about it and, um. And then we made the decision to, um, to go into ministry and, uh, sell all our stuff and move from mobile and move out to Arlington area for work and go to Southwestern Baptist theological seminary. So I tell you all that because through that Dr. Carter's, who I had talked to as I was making some of that. And when I became a pastor, he was like my father in the ministry. He's the guy that I would go to, my mentor, uh, to, to help and guide me. They would have me come back to shades and speak every so often, have like a single's emphasis and said, hey, let's go back and preach this night. So even though we were gone, this is crazy. I can't believe we were gone like 13 years and people still knew who we were. And so when Dr. Carter announced that he was going to be leaving, uh, we were sort of like the odd zone favorite, uh, to, um, for people wanting us to come back and they knew who we were, so that's kind of how it all worked out. Some of God's provision there. That's pretty cool. Yeah, it, um, it, it was amazing. And, uh, what's so funny Parker's that, uh, when I would do new members classes and tell my story, I would look at them and say, Hey, you too could be a Sunday school teacher and then be promoted to pastor. Cause that's what happened to me. And so it's a, it's a great career choice. You go deacon, pastor. It was phenomenal. So, uh, that's really cool. That's it. It was, it was great. And to go back to your initial question is, uh, I, I know that I, we had a friend of ours and as soon as Dr. Carter announced it, they called me in Rustin and said, Hey, we're gonna put your name in. And then, uh, after a month or so, uh, the committee members started coming by and they visited Rustin and then they contacted us. Talk to us in the fall, and then we kind of wrapped it up, uh, in, uh, in March. So, how is it like when, when you left Ruston, your church there, and you, I get the timeline right, you went to Birmingham to Shades Mountains, is that what? That's correct. Okay, how was that leaving, like, uh, a church that you love, you love the people there, like, you love, everything's great. How is that leaving a church body and going to a new church body like that? Well, um, about a year before that, uh, Janice and I started praying about it because, um, really Jake and Parker, I kind of felt like I had accomplished what God had called me to do. And, um, and it was almost like a finality there. And, uh, and I found myself coasting and that is that rather than me being challenged and, um, uh, spending the time I needed to, to do sermon development and other things. I was almost kind of getting by just on natural gifting and talents. I don't know if that makes sense to you, but, um, but some of the challenge was gone and, and so what I did was I signed up to get a doctorate at Beeson Divinity School and, um, a little bit, I know that at the same time I got that, then I'm going to shades mountain. So don't know if that was a smart move to go to a mega church and do a doctorate same time, but that was kind of how it worked. But so when that opportunity came, as difficult as it was to step away, we really felt very comfortable that that was God's timing and that we had come and had accomplished what God had called us, uh, called us to do. And the people loved us and they understood. And so it was a really, it was a good parting. And we have friends there now, even after 26 years or so, we still have people that we stay in touch with. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. I remember you preached a sermon 1 time about how I don't want to say busy. How, how, how challenging your job should be. I think just to paraphrase, you said something like, you know, if you're, if you're not challenged enough, and like, that's not where. God wants you long term, and if you're too stressed out all the time, then that's not sustainable to lead a godly life and have a godly family. There has to be a balance to where you're. Challenge an appropriate amount and tested. And so I don't know that that's all that's always stuck out to me whenever I think about my own job. But, um, yeah, yeah, I kind of think we always need to have that have that challenge and, uh, to where, uh, it's, it's, it's a little bit of difficulty and it's always kind of push you a little bit. And so, um. We had just sort of reached that, that time where, um, it wasn't, it wasn't the same. And so, and so I felt like I was doing them almost a disservice by me, um, you know, sort of coasting at times. And I could have, and, and in my mind, the doctorate was what was going to challenge me. And I think I could have stayed at Ruston and gone through the challenge of the doctorate. And I think that would have stirred some other juices in me. And, uh, but then at that same time, unbeknownst to me, uh, Shades Mountain was calling at that same time. So it didn't work well. I need, I need to say that I need to apologize. I didn't realize you went to Sanford as well. And the only reason I apologize is because when I introduced you, I said, you went to Auburn, not Sanford. And the reason why I said that is because I, me, me and Parker have a, one of our best friends, William Till told me literally on Saturday, he said, he said, Jake, how come everyone you interview goes to Sanford? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, I don't, I was like, you can't, you can't like throw a rock and not hit someone who's affiliated with Sanford. And I, here I am thinking I'm playing a safe card, pulling out the Auburn stop. Cause I knew that. I didn't realize you had also this is back to back episodes that we have an aubergine in the house too. So it is Okay, well that well, well, that's good Well, I I am both and and this is going to make even worse for you And that is that i'm on the board of trustees at samford. So, uh They would offer Not Sanford, but he is on the board of trustees. So Well, it's good that Sanford search committee, um, anything you wanna know. So it's good that Sanford's not a, uh, sponsor of this podcast. Otherwise this will be the last episode they would sponsor. Oh, that's, that's amazing. This is sponsored by, we're so glad to hear it. Well, hey, we want to kind of get into why. Why I asked you to, to come on the night and, you know, Parker and I always talk about, like, um, you know, we can, we can talk through a lot of subjects, you know, a lot of topical things. Um, but we always felt like we get the best. Out of whatever it is we want to talk about when we have someone who is extremely knowledgeable in this case You've been a pastor for you know, 30 something years or 40. However many years you were. Um, Combined churches and so, um, we just kind of wanted to talk about why jesus, you know, uh, I had the thought a year ago probably like hey, this would be a great episode idea one day, but didn't really have You know Uh, the, the person I felt like was right to do it. And so I reached out to Sam Wilson. Um, and I was like, hey, random. Do you think Danny would, would it be interested in talking about this? He's like, there's only 1 way to find out. So I was like, all right, let's see. Um, so I kind of want to awkward segue into sort of like a role play. Um, scenario where, um, I'll be asking questions. Parker and I will be asking questions from the standpoint of non believers. And if you would answer them from the standpoint of a believer and how you would, you know, uh, proclaim the gospel to them or. However you see fit. Um, so the first question is, uh, why should I believe in anything at all? Well, you know, that's an interesting question. Why should you believe in anything at all? Um, you know, I think that life would be pretty miserable if I didn't believe in something. If I just believe that I'm just an accident, That's here on this earth with no purpose, uh, either in this life or a life to come. Uh, I, I think that would be a kind of a sad existence personally. Mm-Hmm. Uh, so, uh, I look around me and when I look around I see that, uh, there's such an order to our universe. There's an order to, um, really all of creation. Which makes me realize that there is something more than just me and that, uh, and there's something beyond, uh, just what I would think my life was. There has to be something that has like a divine purpose, uh, and a reason, uh, for being. And so just because of that, I would think you would need to believe in something, but then what I would recommend is begin to seek that truth. Uh, and, and to say, okay, I'm going to seek and find out what is the thing that I need to believe in and what is that truth. So how, how do I know there's a God out there who loves me anyway? Well, I think that, um, you know, if, if I use the Bible and, uh, I'm going to use the Bible because of two things is, uh, first of all, I think that, um, the Bible teaches that God reveals himself through creation and talks about that, that those who look at creation, that they should be able to see God and see the display of the heavens and what he's done. And so I would start with that. And just look at, uh, at our world, uh, there was a, um, there was an astronaut named, uh, uh, Guy Gardner who, um, had, uh, flown a couple of, uh, space shuttles, uh, with NASA and, uh, had looked at the Earth from a different perspective. And he made a statement that within our solar system, the Earth is the only inhabitable planet. It's the only, only planet that is perfectly situated for there to be habitation on it. And, um, and you may have even heard at times when they said, you know, if the earth was just a little bit closer to the sun, we'd all burn up. If it was just a tad further away from the sun, we would all freeze. Uh, if the moon was just a little bit larger, the tides would be so strong that we'd have tidal waves. If it was a little bit smaller, then it means that we wouldn't have the tides and the oceans would dry up. But yet, everything is, is set perfect for us as humans to be able to live on this planet. And to be able to survive. Now, to me, that shows that there is a creator and that's a benevolent God who set up an earth so that human beings could live on it and be able to live an enjoyable and purposeful life. And then the second thing is you look in the Bible, it reveals who God is and that's his word. And we believe that that was inspired by God. And as you read through the Bible, you get to learn who God is. And when he sent his son, Jesus, uh, Jesus says, I and the father are one. If you want to know who the father is, hey, just take a look at me. And so we get to get the flesh, the, the kind of the skin in the game thing, Jesus right here, God in the flesh. And uh, as we read about his life and we see how much he loves us and how much God loves us. Then that helps me realize that we do have a benevolent loving God who, um, has created us so we could have fellowship with him and that we could bring honor and glory to him and he pours out his love to us. So, uh, so Parker, I would say just as I look around, just see the way creation is that, uh, that we have a loving God. Uh, so you talk a lot about the Bible. So like what, How, how did the Bible get here? And why should I believe in the Bible? If there are other religions who believe in the air, I'm going to say air quote, God or gods. Why, why, why this one over another one? Yeah. Uh, well, I think that, um, and you're smart and saying, let's look at the Bible because that is. Revelation of God. You know, the Bible is really an amazing book. I mean, it's, it's incredible. Uh, when you think about, you know, you pick up a Bible and I've got one here is that you just think that it's, it's all just like somebody sat down and just kind of wrote this whole thing and then put it here. The Bible, it was written over a span of 1500 years. And by over 40 different authors. So if you just think about over 40 different authors over all kind of walks of life, we had kings, we got peasants, we got fishermen, we got philosophers, all kinds of people. that have written this Bible. It was written on three different continents. It's written in three different languages, Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. And it's got different, uh, variety, literary varieties in it. I mean, you got poetry, you got prophecy, uh, you got law, you got biography, you got history, and you put all of that together, right? Over 40 authors, 1, 500 year spans, and you put the whole thing together. And guess what? It has one common theme throughout. That's just flat out amazing. And a common theme is that, uh, God's redemption of human beings, salvation from sin and life that can be completely transformed. So God redeems us, saves us from our sins and transforms our lives. And that is a common thread from the book of Genesis number one, all the way through book number 66, revelation. Now, I just got to tell you, if the three of us got together, And we tried to do just wrote what everyone to write and then came back together. Do you possibly think that we could put something together and say, that's incredible. I mean, look at the way it all wove through there. No way. And, and the thing about the Bible is it's made up of all kinds of things. There are eyewitnesses. To it, uh, I mean there's prophecies that have come true It's it really is the most amazing book that that's ever ever been written and so if uh, and I could just go on I mean because uh, when people try to look at the bible and say well, why is that different from maybe some of the Books that other people use for for their particular religion. Um, historians when they look at the reliability of a Of literature Uh, there's two tests, two of the tests that they have are what is the time frame between the original that was written, and usually we don't have a copy of the original, until you find the first manuscript. And in ancient texts, most times it's about a thousand years. Now when you get to Homer's Iliad, it's like 400 years, and everybody's like, woo, oh, that's good. So 400 years from the original. The Bible, just the New Testament itself, uh, it's manuscripts are 225 years from original date to the manuscript that's been found. I mean, that's almost unheard of. And there's a little fragment of the Book of John that is 50 years from the original. And then they look at the number of manuscripts. Homer's Iliad's got 643 manuscripts. Uh, Greek New Testament has 5, 700. So, I, I tame these things to say there's a lot that goes into, uh, into this book, the Bible, which makes me say, okay, this is an authoritative book. This is something that could only be inspired by God. Let me give you one more story. You ready for this? Yeah. It's going to blow your socks off, so just be careful with it. All right. Is it about Stanford? Yeah, it was in the Bible and it talked about the bulldogs. But, uh, it's got an Old Testament and New Testament. Okay. In the Old Testament, there was a prophet by the name of Isaiah. And so Isaiah in his prophecy said about 700 BC, he said there would be a king by the name of Cyrus who will, uh, tell the people to go back to, uh, to Jerusalem, rebuild the city and rebuild the temple. He wrote that in 700 BC. So, uh, Here's the problem. In 700 BC, the city of Jerusalem was standing strong and the temple was standing strong. It was great. So that didn't make any sense to him. What do you mean that some guy named Cyrus is going to rebuild? However, in 586 BC, that's when the Babylonians came in, in Nebuchadnezzar, and they came in and they took over Israel. They destroyed the city of Jerusalem and then destroyed the temple. And so they were in captivity in Babylon for about 40 years, and then all of a sudden, 539, here come the Persians. And when the Persians came in, they took over the Babylonians, and then up comes a guy by the name of Cyrus, who is the king, and he tells the Hebrew people, you can go back to your homeland, rebuild your city, and rebuild the temple. That's 160 years ago. From when Isaiah talked about it and prophesied, I don't know about you, but that's, that's unbelievable. And then just Jesus himself, there were 300 prophecies in the old Testament that he fulfilled just in his own life. So I say that to say. I think the Bible is, you know, is inspired by God, his word. And so if I'm out there seeking for something to believe in, I would read the Bible and say, let's see what it's got to say. That's great. So, so why would I. What's different from speaking of the Bible and all that, why not believe in Quran and what that has to say, or, uh, you know, maybe some other religions that, that have books that talk about prophecies and all these different things. Why should I believe the Bible and not the Quran? Yeah. Yeah. Well, I, I would be surprised if their prophecies matched up like, Like what, what the Bible does. Uh, and I think the, um, uh, if, if, if I'm trying to choose what to believe. Then, uh, as I would read the Bible and then see while reading the Bible, what does it reveal to me about God? And what does it reveal to me, uh, about salvation and, uh, to be in a right relationship with God? Uh, when I look at those other, other religions, uh, uh, it probably the easiest way I've ever heard it summarized as to what is the difference from Christianity. Well, first of all, Christianity is not a religion. It's a relationship. It's a relationship, uh, between us and God. Others are religions. And what religion tells you is do. It's all about doing, and I need to do so much in order to be found worthy so that one day when I die, I will spend my eternity in a good place. All right. I think that's kind of what everybody's shooting for. And, and, and people are looking for, I just want to do what is best. I want to do enough. So it's talking about doing, um, Christianity is the word done. It's all been done. And that is that we're have a holy God. And when we have this Holy God, he's perfect. He's pure, but yet we sin. That means we mess up. We do things that are wrong. Everybody does it. And the Bible says everyone's sin falls short of the glory of God. And so while we're separated from God over here, our desire is to come back into a right relationship with him. And it doesn't matter how much stuff we try to do. He is perfect. And since we're imperfect, we're never going to be in a right relationship with them. So something has to happen in the Bible, laid it out that the payment of sin is death, which means that, uh, there has to be payment of, of death that will cover your sins. And he sent his son, Jesus Christ, who lived a perfect life, and he would be that perfect sacrifice. He died on a cross and when he died, his blood was shed. Uh, they then took him, put him in a tomb and then three days later he raised from the dead and this, this week is Easter. So this is why we celebrate, celebrate this. And so when he raised from the dead, it showed that he had conquered death and it showed that he had conquered sin and he was a sacrifice. That God accepted. And so then as I'm here as a center, Jesus says, if you'll accept me as that sacrifice, accept me as your Lord, accept me as the boss of your life. Then when you do that. Then you are born again. You are adopted into the family of God. You are a child of God. And once you're a child of God, God's spirit comes in you. He lives in you. You get to live a transformed life. And then the day that you die, uh, it says to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. We spend eternity with God. And so there's your difference is that Christ has already been paid. The ball is in my court. Will I accept that? Or I can say I think I'm going to try to do enough good works and I'm pretty sure God will go for that. Well, that's impossible because he's perfect and holy and no matter how many good things we try to do, we're never going to reach that standard. And, um, you know, I looked at this because I get asked this question a good bit. Is I believe that God is a loving and benevolent God. I do not see how he could be a loving. I don't see any God who could be benevolent. If he said, you got to do enough good works in order to get to heaven. And you say, okay, good. So what's the standard. I'm not going to tell you. I mean, what is the standard? I mean, for anybody that says, Hey, I think I've done enough. I hope I do enough. How do you know? How do you know? I mean, just think when you went to school, when you were in school, if you went to a class and you said, you know, I want to make an a, uh, what do I have to do to make an egg? Uh, 90? Yeah, I don't know. I'm not going to tell you. You just study, you take tests and, um, and we're not going to tell you what the standard is. We just want you to make an ad. But what is that? Is that 90, 95, 85? I'm not going to tell you. That's horrible. I mean, you're sitting there. That's just the ultimate of frustration and you may do your best and then you come up and the guy says, hey, it was 98. You made a 93. Sorry. Yeah, I do. Um, and there. All this thing about works and stuff and that, there's no standard, and it's just frustrating where God has made it so clear to say, um, Jesus Christ has already paid the penalty, so it's done. You just have to take that step and accept them and believe in them. Yeah, and to add to your story, they're like, once someone, before he takes a test, and then you're like, well, what did they make? You don't, you don't know. You don't get to, you don't get to ask them, they go into another room and then you just had to take the test by yourself. Yeah, that is true. I mean, it'd be nice if you had a list of people that had made the grade and we're in some kind of eternity. That doesn't work on that. Uh, so I had her talk about. I heard somebody make a presentation, uh, which I thought was pretty effective is that, uh, they would draw a, like a scale. And they would say, so where do you think you fall on that scale? And. Well, man, I'm just not sure. And I said, well, let me tell you about mother Teresa, you know, mother Teresa said, made some statement about that. She was the lowest of the low and that all that she had done that she didn't even feel even worthy. So you draw the sketch. Okay. The mother Teresa's here. All right. Uh, Billy Graham, who was an evangelist talked about, uh, he was like, okay, he's about here. All right. And so, so where do you put yourself? So, well, I think I'm better than Mother Teresa. I think I've done more for that. Well, if she's here in the standards up here, man, you're hurting. Uh, so that's, that's why standards don't work. That's what I know. Yeah. Um, you talked a little bit about, uh, the, the God spirit. Will you, uh. Elaborate on that. Because if Christianity preaches that there's one God, why, why does it talk a lot about, uh, God, the father, God, the son, and God, the Holy spirit. Yeah. That's, uh, they call that the, the Trinity. And, um, you would probably have a, um, I think that your podcast could set all the records ever known to man. If I could explain to you the Trinity, That has never been explained in 2000 years. Wouldn't that be great? So that everybody could fully understand. Oh, that's it. I got it. It makes sense to me. So, um, um, well, let me give you my best shot. Are you ready? I'm ready. Okay, um, the Bible does talk about that it is one God, three persons. In fact, in fact, he takes the mystery out of it in Genesis, the first book of the Bible, uh, chapter 1, verse 26, when they're getting ready to make man, uh, he says, let us, plural, make man in plural image, our plural likeness. Okay, so we know that it's more than just singular. And then the Bible talks about there's a God, the Father, God, the son, that's Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit. And so these three distinctives and with Jesus, when he was here, he was limited between time and space. Uh, he could be in a room with you guys, but he couldn't be in a room with me. And he told his disciples, when I leave, it's going to be even better because when he ascended to heaven, he then sent the Holy Spirit, which is third person of Trinity. And that's who comes in our hearts, in our lives when we receive Christ as Savior. So that means that we've got God's spirit within us to guide us, convict us of sin, uh, comfort us and just help us, help us all through life. And so you've got God, the Father, God, son, God, the Holy Spirit. How does all of that work? Well, there was a, there was a seventh century theologian who his description of the Trinity was called para, uh, car races. And I know y'all talked about this a lot, so I hate to bore you with it, because we know this, but it's Perry car races gets a Greek word and it's a compound. Hairy is a word that means around. Carasus is where we get our word choreography. So it's almost the picture of God, the father, God, the son, God, the Holy spirit, and almost like a ballet of holding hands and going in a circle in harmony and in love and in purpose together. And it says, That what this means is there's not just a self contained, self distinct individual. It is the three together are in community as one. And so, within God himself, this Trinity, there is community with God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Now, take that a step further. When man was created, he said, I'm going to, uh, let's create him in our image. And so if God, father, son, and Holy spirit is community within himself, then he created us so that we needed to have community. And that means we need to have community and a relationship with God, but we also need to have a community with others. God never intended us to be lone ranger people. He never intended us to just be on our own. He wanted us to be with community. And, and a part of that is because he is community within himself. In the Trinity and we're created in that image. And so there's a harmony that we should get from community. So that's my shot at at the Trinity, but, um, I always will go to the verse of scripture. It says this, it says God's ways are higher than our ways. God's thoughts are higher than our thoughts. Bottom line. That means that God is beyond us. And what if we could fully understand who God is, that we could wrap our arms around exactly who this all present omniscient, omnipowerful God is and fully understand it in our own, our own minds, then he really wouldn't be God. See, I love it having a God that I can't fully comprehend. And, uh, and that makes him that God. Okay. Just something that man can get his hands around. Yeah. And that's not being passive. That's just like, that's just Isaiah 55 right there. Just his, his so much higher than us. And that's challenging. Yeah. Um, so, uh, why, why should I follow Jesus? And what does that even mean? Could you talk about relationship? Uh, so, so why should I follow him? And what does that even look like or what does that mean? Yeah. Um, Well, it starts with, um, entering into a relationship with him. So, what is that? Uh, you know, we, we, we talked about that, um, uh, when a person understands that, that he has sinned. And it's separated from God. And then God created this, this perfect view, but then we messed up because we sinned and we're separated, separated from God. And, and it said, but God demonstrated his love for us. And that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. And so Jake and Parker, it means that God loves us so much that he sent his own son to be that perfect sacrifice to die on the cross. You know, for our sins. And, uh, and then when he rose from the dead, uh, he conquered sin, conquered death, it was a sacrifice that God, God approved. And he asked us to come into a relationship with him. He said, well, how does that happen? Well, the Bible says, if you confess with your mouth, that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart, that God raised him from the dead, then you will be saved. So if I get the head knowledge and then I get the heart knowledge and I confess and I say, I want my Jesus to be Lord of my life and what I want to do is live my life for him. It says that his spirit comes into my life. Now, all of a sudden I've got this opportunity to read God's word. To pray to God and to begin to learn more about what it's like to walk in a relationship with Jesus Christ. And, and it is just, it is just an amazing thing that once his spirit comes in, then you begin to build this relationship with the son of God. And so when you say to them, what does it, does it mean to, to follow him? Jesus gave some pretty strict, um, statements, uh, back in Luke chapter nine, when, uh, he said, um, you know, if you're going to be a disciple of mine, you need to deny yourself, take up your cross. So deny self means that, uh, I don't put my needs first. I put God's needs first. I, I want to live for him and he created me. And so he knows what's best for me. So it's not like he's some mean, old, old curmudgeon over here. This won't direct me the wrong path. He says, Danny, I've created you. I've gifted you. I've shaped you from your mother's womb to do these things. And, uh, and so as you follow me, you need to deny yourself, deny the things, uh, that make me number one and make Christ number one, take up your cross. Hey, during that day, you took up your cross and meant you were willing to die to yourself and, uh, willing to be persecuted, willing to suffer if that's what it takes. But I want to take up my cross. And then he says, follow me. That really means to imitate me. So everything you see in scripture, what Jesus did, the way he forgave others, uh, the way he was humble, the way he was a servant leader, uh, the way he showed compassion to other people, all of these types of things that we see that Jesus did. We are to imitate him and we are, and that's a part of following him. And so I hope that would answer your question as to what it means to follow him. It is to imitate him and to be, and to be like, uh, like Christ. That's great. Uh, Danny, thank you for playing that role play. Game with us, we're going to end the role play. So it doesn't, you know, so the next questions we ask don't sound like we're still playing along. But, uh, well, well, I did have, I had, but 4 people that said they were praying for you tonight that you would get saved tonight. Jake. So that was Josh. Josh is 1 of them. Uh, Sam Wilson is another 1. Um, you know, I go around, I, I did this for like a year, so I'm, I don't know if we've met before, but I don't know if you remember meeting me or whatever, but I'm 6 foot 5 and I describe myself as just like a regular 6, 5, white guy who kind of looks like Chad, and so for a while. I introduce so parker chad is shade is the executive pastor. So he's the uh, I I don't I don't know what the best way to say it number two guy He's the number two guy. He's the he's the office operational kind of guy Um at shades and he's like six four or six five kind of I mean he's skinnier than I am And he you know has brown hair And like, sort of has a regular looking face like me. And so I thought this would be a great idea to go around and introduce myself to other people who I just meet, don't even know these people. These are like people who are just visiting Shades for the first time, or people who are just in the worship service. And they turn around and I just introduced myself to them Unshamefully as chad gossiping and about about 40 of them give me a weird look and the other 60 Just roll with it and then i'm like I let that happen Hey, he's he's got a whole lot more gray in that head and that beard now. So, uh, it's getting harder to get away with that Yeah Uh, chad's a great guy. Um so Count and the, you know, the, the, the overarching reason why I wanted to ask you these kind of questions is because, you know. You were the pastor at shades mountain church, which is the church my wife and I are members that and we started. Attending there in 2016 and so immediately we noticed when we. Uh, came to shades. We, uh, we went to a lot of churches before we joined shades and felt that a lot of churches did a lot of things well and preach the gospel shades did all those things. And it was also five minutes from our house. So we're like, this seems great. And we, and we knew some people there. Um, but from the moment we started going, we realized like, Oh, these, this church is, is extremely like disciplined and serious about, uh, what scripture says and what. Um, you know what? Living, uh, uh, I'm wearing a shirt that says live scent, which is sort of the, the motto of, of shades. And so living a missional, uh, mi having a missional mindset in your life. So, how ha have you, when, when you were. Unretired non emeritus, uh, how did you read the read scripture and then say, like, this is how I'm going, I'm going to, uh, infuse the church I'm at with what God has, has given me through his word. Okay. So it's, uh, it's really kind of the missional emphasis. That that we took on, um, and that's really where it started. Uh, one of the advantages I had was, uh, having been a member at Shades. Um, I, I, I knew it well, and then I've been gone 13 years, but it still kept up and I knew it. And, uh, it was, it's a church that's had good pastoral leadership. It's a church that's had a heart for missions. And, uh, And, um, and it's a church that has incredible resources, and that means there are lay people that are really gifted and talented. And, um, and so you put all that together and that's a great combination. Also, however, is that by the time we had left, the demographics of Birmingham began to shift. And they began to move further south and, uh, you know, Green Springs Highway, the old Montgomery Highway, whatever you call it, uh, Columbiana Road, uh, that was the main thoroughfare, uh, because when I was there, uh, 65, I 65 went to Royal and stopped. It didn't go any further. And so once they finished up 65 and built 459, uh, people weren't taking Green Springs to go in front of the church. So, demographics were moving south, people were moving south, Vestavia was pretty well built up, and so it was during the day when people were taking churches from their locations and moving them to where the fast growing was, where the demographics were. Well, that really wasn't an option. Uh, you know, for us, we built a new worship center there. Uh, so the demographics weren't playing in our, in our favor. Still, uh, socioeconomically, it was the same. It's just used to have it mean folks. Everybody was heading in towards Hoover, Shelby County, and all those areas. And so I remember after I got there, And I began to pray and say, so God, what is it that you want us to do? I know enough about churches to know that some churches have just put it in the neutral and have done the slow decline because ethically they're just not getting all that demographic growth. And I said, I just don't see that. I, and I just don't see that happening to our church. So what is it that we need to do that's different? And, uh, and God brought me, uh, to, um, uh, to the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew chapter 5, uh, verses like 14 and 15, 16, that area. And, uh, he talked about that you're a city on a hill. And that, um, and when you're sitting on the hill, everybody's supposed to be able to see you. And when you have your light, you don't hide it under a bushel, but you put your light out there for, for people to see. And so we really were a church on a hill because we're on the hill, called Shades Mountain. So, uh, we are on the hill. And so I said, well, Lord, this works out pretty good. And, uh, and then I began to think, I said, so what is it that we need to do to make our light shine? Again, strong pastor leadership in the past. great resources, great people. That's not to go to waste. You have put that together for a particular reason. And so over the next few years, I began to pray about it. And I really felt that what it meant is that we didn't need to be so concerned about what was going on inside the church, but we need to get more outside the church. And so, um, So that's where we began to, uh, began to pray. And, uh, God brought into my life, a organization called Global Focus, and they talked about the personalization of missions. And, um, when I heard that presentation, I was sold. And I said, we want to get this happening in our church. And what happened is starting really around 2000, 2001 and 2001, uh, we brought these guys in and, uh, began to implement the philosophies of, uh, looking at missions from a personalization standpoint. In the past, we were doing a great job writing checks. We were like the number one church for there's some offerings in Southern Baptist life, international missions, Lighty Moon. Home missions or, uh, North American missions, uh, Andy Armstrong, and we did great with that. And that was good, but we needed to do more of going out and skin in the game and, you know, Meeting these missionaries and doing more than just praying for them on the days. And so, uh, once, once this happened, uh, then, uh, I took our church through 40 days of prayer and fasting, uh, back in, uh, uh, September of, uh, of oh one. And, uh, when, uh, when we did the 40 days of prayer and fasting, part of it was me even praying about the vision for our church and I sort of put one together, but this finalized it and it was our 2010 vision. And it was that, uh, starting in the year 2001, uh, until the year 2010, our goal is that we would have missionaries serving in all 24 time zones around the world, that we would do ministry in all 50 states. That we would plant churches in all the international mission board regions that we would plant five churches in the United States, plant one church in Canada and adopt a strategic focus city. And so leading up to that, we had about 4 missionaries out of our church that we're serving and we would take about 8 mission trips with about 240. And, uh, I did have some really close friends of mine say, I think you're crazy and well, that's a God sized vision. You know, let's, let's go for it. And once we implemented these principles, we started doing global impact celebrations and, and we started building partnerships with all these missionaries and we had a goal. We had to get the 50 states. So we're trying to plan where we're going to do mission work. We just start knocking these states out. And, uh, at the end of. At the end of 2010, when you look back over it, um, we had, uh, we did ministry in all 50 states. Uh, we planted churches and all of the 11 international mission board regions. And I laugh because God did me a favor. There were like 13 regions and then they, uh, consolidated some made it 11. So we had. All 11 regions were taken care of. We planted not five churches, but seven churches in North America, planted one church in Canada, and we adopted New York City as our strategic focus city. And in the time zones, uh, we had people serving or had served, done work in 21 out of 24 time zones. And so my theology is better than my geography. I didn't realize in the Pacific Ocean, you get three time zones in the Pacific Ocean. All right. And, uh, there's If, if, if, if I was a little younger, uh,'cause I'm real competitive, uh, I would've gotten our missions guy, I told him to get some tracks, put him in a airplane, parachute him down on some island in one of those time zones and said, alright, you got three weeks. Lead someone to Christ we'll come pick you up, take you to another island. But I think the thing that was so great about that is not just what we met all those goals, but where we used to take like eight mission trips. Now we average 35 mission trips a year and 17 international. And rather than having 240 people going on mission, we had over 1, 300 every year going out on missions. And, and, and Jake and Parker, it changed our church. It changed our church. Because we were no longer just looking inward. We were looking all around the world and, uh, I could talk to you for hours, the number of doors that opened up and the number of lives that were impacted by our people and change their life, change their call to ministry, uh, or into missions and even ministry, uh, because of that, And, and out of all that then came live sent that that's, you know, that's, uh, that's who we are. Uh, the thing that was, that was kind of crazy is that when, uh, when the clock turned to 2010, we knew that at the end of that year, the 2010 vision would be done with. So people started coming to me in that summer and they said, what's next? And I laughed, I looked down and said, I got no idea. I really thought the rapture would happen before 22. I thought, this is great. I'm done. So, uh, so then we had to pray again. And so then what we came up with was we did evangelism. Let's add compassionate justice to it. So we did a five year program called touch the world. And we began to add in a lot of compassionate justice, everything from clean water to dealing with human trafficking, to getting involved in, uh, in adoption and orphanages, uh, and, uh, and just on and on. Uh, there were AIDS, uh, uh, medical issues. We worked with some people with that. I mean, you name it. We work with some incredible organizations and, uh, we did that for five years. And we did ministry in 17 states and 67 countries. And, uh, we 6, 000 people out over that five years out there just touching lives left and right. And, uh, again, it just took us to a whole nother level and it helped people to understand this is what missional living is. And the great thing about it is, You got people going over the sea overseas. Now they're more confident to go across the street and to go into their businesses and their neighborhoods and to be able to witness and look for ministry opportunities. And so we saw the community opportunities grow and accelerate, uh, because of also what we were doing internationally. Um, I, the verse that came to mind, we were talking about like the, the big like vision. That God gave you for your church was, uh, James four, two says you do not have because you do not ask and then you ask it for your own desires. Uh, but you know, that's what came to my mind. It's like, you know, you asked not based off your own desires. You asked for the kingdom of God to come to earth. And he was like, okay, here it is. We're going to do it. And you just need to be faithful and just continue. People are going to say you're crazy, but just be faithful. I'm going to make it happen. And that's just, yeah, that's just really, really cool. That's really awesome to hear that story. I can, I can almost envision. I have no idea who would have been at shades during that time. I imagine David Powell is probably somewhere lurking in the background. But, but, uh, I can imagine you just saying, giving your what we're going to do, and you kind of look up and look around to a room. He's like, questioning if they, if maybe it's time for you to move somewhere else. Maybe. Maybe we should start small. Uh, oh. He said, nah, hey, go big or go home. Come on. Yeah. But you know, that's the times you grow the most, like, spiritually. It's like when you're challenged and like you put yourself in situations where you're like, okay, God, I literally cannot do this. I need you to step in. And. Like I need you to take over because if I, I feel like when, and I'm not a pastor by all means, but I mean, I've been a part of church for a while and I've just kind of seen like when people depend like on themselves and they really don't have to depend on God, even in my own life, like when I depend on myself, I'm like, Oh, my bank account's great. My life is great. My marriage is great. I don't need anything. I'm great. Like those are the times where I feel like I, I fall and fail the most. Um, but the times where I'm like, okay, God, I need you. I need you right now. Please. If you don't step in, nothing's going to happen. Uh, that's the times where I grow the most in my faith. So that's really cool to hear that because I mean, that's the kind of times as a believer. I feel like we should be seeking out. We should be seeking out those times where you can say, all right, God, you got it. I'm just watching. It's gonna hang out and obey and and you're talking about, you're talking about like, how. You want shades to look and just the church to look outside because you've, it's kind of a reflection of like your own life. Like if you're just focused on your own wellbeing and like how many programs can we get? How do I not have to serve in worship care? You know, like all these things like that are just more self centered. Like you're just going to rob yourself of, Of living out a missional life for, for the Lord and how else would, how else would anyone know it's the opposite of the gospel, man. You know, like, Jesus came to serve not to be served. So, like, if he did it wasn't the world we're thinking. Yeah, that's Romans. I think it's Romans 10. I'm going to. Paul said it. If you're ever doubtful, you can just say, Paul said this. But he's saying, how are they to hear, you know, unless they are, how are they to believe unless they've heard and how are they to hear unless it's preached and how are they to preach unless someone has sent, you know, it's like, well, I guess that's my call right there. So I got to go. Uh, that's, uh, that's exactly right. Uh, and, uh, the, uh, the benefit for us is when we started doing these global impact celebrations and that's when we put missionaries in probably about 35 missionary units, uh, every year. And, and, uh, they'd be with us for about five days. And, uh, I mean, our kids saw them as really heroes and, um, and so, you know, When people are asking me, what are you most excited about? I'm most excited about the future, and that is that there'll be a child, if you join this church, and let's say you had a four year old, uh, for the next, uh, 14 years, all the way up to their 18 years of age, they will be confronted with missions. They will have opportunities to go on, maybe during that time, six to nine, whatever, mission trips. Uh, they're gonna see missionaries, they're gonna meet them, they're gonna hear them. And it is going to change you and our high school students had an opportunity to go apart of about like 8 different mission trips. Some of them overseas, some of them other place, United States. And I felt the advantages is that when they went off to college, they had a better world view. Then other people who never got to do that, uh, living in Vestavia, you can be in a Vestavia bubble. And, um, and when you go off to college, it can be a rude awakening. I love it that we've got, we had students that they really had a worldview. I mean, they have been to different places in the world. They've had people from the world talk to them and they don't understand the realities of it. And they understand how God's in the middle of all of this. And so that excited me about as much as anything. is how these kids were involved in it. And you've seen a number of them that have gone into missions and continue to do missional living. Would you say that's probably like you're, I don't want to say proud, you know, like, I don't know if pastors are allowed to be proud of things, but you can, you can tell me, you can tell me later if they are or not, but like, I guess of your, of your legacy and tenure, um, at any church or, or, you know, in this, in my case, it's shades, you know, what, What, what's the thing that you, when you retired, you're like, you know what? That's the one thing that I'm so glad, uh, I said yes to doing that, or that's the one thing that God really showed me that has just changed my life more than anything. Yeah. I, I, I laugh. You thought about can pastors be proud? That old joke where, uh, they called the pastor up and they gave him the award for being the most humble man, and he went and office put it on the wall, and they took it down and, and told him he wasn't humble because he put on the, I would, uh. Yeah, I think Jake that that probably be probably be it. Um, being able to, um, kind of lead the church in that direction and understand it's a direction I've never been in myself. It wasn't like when I was in Ruston that we were knocking the doors down, doing international missions and stuff. No, it, this was new for me. It's just where God led me and where we led our church. And to see the impact on lives of people being, uh, on mission, uh, that really is, is something that, um, that I was, I was even say proud of, or I'm thrilled for, uh, and the great thing about that is. is that, um, uh, that accomplishment is not dependent upon me. That accomplishment is because members, uh, felt this is what God was leading them to do. My job is just to sort of open that door and present that. And then they made those decisions, not coerced by anyone. Uh, no false motives. It's just, I think this is what God's word is telling me to do. And then to see them do that. And, uh, it was, it was really great. That was, that was a high. Uh, I guess I'll part of you don't have any other questions you want to ask. I kind of want to close with just, um, something that you're going to is going to make you uncomfortable, I guess, Danny. But, uh, you know, uh, I just want to paint a picture of, like. How I believe that your, your faithfulness to the Lord has impacted lives everywhere. Um. You know, my, I told you, told you earlier that my wife and I, when we showed up to shades, we were like kind of taken aback at how, um, how everyone, every thing in the church, every, I guess, area of the church seemed like it was well equipped. Um, you know, uh, we had, we didn't have any kids at the time, but now we've got and we just see how they raise, how our church, uh, invests. Uh, time in our Children and preaches the gospel to them, and they're not like. little kindergarten or they're like actually talking to them about what it means to be saved and and not that that's not going on in our own home, but I feel like our church does a great job of that. Um, and then we saw like, oh, well, they care about, uh, discipleship and equipping adults. And then they care about missions. It was like everything kind of like all cohesively fit together. And I was like, man, this is an awesome place. And. Um, I was thinking about how, uh, you know, I think that and I don't know shades history as well as others, but there was the 1st pastor of shades was the 1 who started it. I'm going to guess like, in the early 1900s. Is that right? Uh, yes, 1950s, 1911, 1911. And there have been, uh, you were the third or fourth pastor? No, if you did the counting, if you start in 1950, Uh, it was like, uh, Hugh Shamless was about 10 years, and then Carl Gears was another 10 years, then Charles Carter was about 26 years, and then I was 24 years. So, we had two pastors in 50 years, and we had four pastors in 70 years. so much. Yeah, yeah, and so I just, I just want to commend you because I think of like, how Joshua sort of took the torch over from Moses, so to speak, and not saying that. Your Joshua, you know, if Josh was down here and then Danny's got to be somewhere down here, but when I came out, Joshua now look like Moses. So that's it. Well, I just I just want to say, thank you for taking what someone has taken a heavy, heavy boulder that someone had already lifted and just carrying that forward. For for the kingdom of the Lord. And so that's just, um, just thank you for that. So, well, I appreciate it. It's, um, uh, we were blessed to be able to do that. And, uh, when you realize that, um, like, mega churches, people think about mega churches, they're only like, about 1 percent of, uh, of all the church, especially Southern badge, like, 40, 000 churches and the, you know, the main average size is about 150 or so. And we're sitting here in this large church and, uh, just the fact that God allowed me to do that. Um, so that was a real blessing and, uh, it wasn't something I was looking for. I love being in Ruston. That was a smaller church, but man, we just, we loved it. It was good. God gave us this additional opportunity here. And, uh, and part of the great blessing was the fall of Charles Carter. Um, and he meant much to me and in my formative years after I graduated from college and, uh, to be able to follow him, uh, was a real honor. That was great. No, well, Danny, thank you so much for hanging out with us tonight. We'll let you go. But is there anything you want to leave anyone with if, if they're questioning anything or what, what, what's your message of hope your sign off? Hey, my sign off is, um, it's just great to be a graduate of Sanford. I was not expecting that at all. That was awesome. I'm never going to recover for this. I'm literally, I'm never, no one at Sanford loves me. No one's going to, I have no ties to Sanford, but they're all going to cancel me if I haven't already been canceled. I like the combo of Auburn and Sanford. That's a great, that's a great combo. It is good, but no, I, I just, you're kind to allow me to do this and to be able to share and, uh, just thank you for what you guys do. This is great. And, uh, I liked your idea. I like your, uh, the idea of a podcast. And my hope is that someone listens to this that is never made a decision for Christ. And maybe that person that goes back to that 1st question about why should I believe in anything? And hopefully will encourage them to say, you know, taste and see. Taste and see, read God's word. Go visit a church, uh, specifically Sage Mountain Baptist or any church and, uh, hear the gospel preach, talk to people and, uh, Hey, you want to get it right? You know, and, uh, you only get one shot at life. And so, uh, if you, if you live it right, that's all you need. So thank you, Danny. Yes. guys. All right. Bye bye.