Ever wondered how to navigate the tumultuous educational field post-COVID? Jackie Jones is at the forefront of this transformation and will take you behind the scenes alongside Dr. Carrie Hepburn. They share their experiences, challenges, and successes as they transitioned to a workshop model and introduced new resources at the height of COVID. A compelling narrative of growth and resilience awaits you as they recount how they provided clarity for educators, developed professional learning resources, and uncovered common misconceptions in education.
The conversation with Jackie highlights the collaborative approach to improving understanding through proficiency scales. Learn how these scales, described as the 'multi-tool' of education, empower teachers with a deeper understanding and assessment of standards and dramatically impact student learning. They share how these scales serve a dual purpose - for formative and summative assessments - and motivate teachers to reevaluate and redesign their lessons. Get ready to gain valuable insights and discover the courage to embrace vulnerability in pursuing the highest levels of instruction.
Ever wondered how to navigate the tumultuous educational field post-COVID? Jackie Jones is at the forefront of this transformation and will take you behind the scenes alongside Dr. Carrie Hepburn. They share their experiences, challenges, and successes as they transitioned to a workshop model and introduced new resources at the height of COVID. A compelling narrative of growth and resilience awaits you as they recount how they provided clarity for educators, developed professional learning resources, and uncovered common misconceptions in education.
The conversation with Jackie highlights the collaborative approach to improving understanding through proficiency scales. Learn how these scales, described as the 'multi-tool' of education, empower teachers with a deeper understanding and assessment of standards and dramatically impact student learning. They share how these scales serve a dual purpose - for formative and summative assessments - and motivate teachers to reevaluate and redesign their lessons. Get ready to gain valuable insights and discover the courage to embrace vulnerability in pursuing the highest levels of instruction.
Hello, dr Carrie Hepburn here from the Compass PD podcast. I am the founder and the CEO of Compass PD and I am incredibly blessed today to have my good friend, jackie Jones, joining us. Welcome, jackie. If you've been listening to the podcast lately, what you know, hello.
Speaker 1:If you've been listening to the podcast lately, you'll notice that we've been working to create opportunities that support that education system not just individual situations, but education as a whole system. And one of the ways that we're doing this is by the Compass PD team talking with different stakeholders about what their needs are and what needs are on need to be on their radar at any given time of the year and predictable problems they will face throughout the school year. An additional layer that we've added is that we're bringing in guests who are outside of our organization. They've worked with us and having them come in and share their story with us Like what was the process, like what did we learn, what worked, what obstacles did we face? And today I'm really excited because Jackie's going to be that person that's sharing her story and the journey that we did over the last several years.
Speaker 1:Our hope today is that you gain some insight into the process of the work that we've done, that we're able to share some wisdom, maybe help you overcome some of the obstacles that we faced and then also be sharing, like those beautiful successes that we had. Our hope for you is that today you take the learning from today, you make it even better, you reach out to Jackie and I so that we can make it even better for others, and that is what helps us, collectively as an organization in education, become better. So, jackie, I thought we would start out with taking them back to the beginning, like when we got started. What was the current reality? Kind of all the things.
Speaker 2:Okay, so back to the beginning. Our journey, I guess, started together roughly around three years ago. I was kind of just starting out my work within a district and I was in the very early stages of learning that districts, dynamics and needs and we just kind of by destiny were brought together.
Speaker 1:It was a really interesting time because everyone was coming right out of COVID being virtual learning. Lots of emotion for everyone. I remember at that time there were a lot of big changes and so it was tough. It was a tough time. We were trying to get back in classrooms and sort of be normal at that time too.
Speaker 2:So that's exactly what it was. We were coming right off of COVID, but then also there were other changes that were happening within the district. When I think about, the district is blessed with amazing educators, but historically and previously in the district, they were more of a text based. They had a text based philosophy for as far as their teaching philosophy went, and they were in this very pivotal time of transforming into a workshop model. Along with embracing a workshop model, they had had a new resource that was given to them as well. So there was other changes that were happening within the district.
Speaker 1:There were and this is something for those of you that are listening that's pretty predictable. That happens. Actually, we aren't coming out of COVID and having dealt with all of that, but one of the things that we see a lot when district leaders want to make a change, they get a resource hoping to change that instruction versus maybe spending some time on the why and the what behind it. That's kind of what happened was we walked into that situation where it was like, ooh, lots of big changes happening all at one time.
Speaker 2:And I think those changes too really were like the catalyst that led us to our journey together, because I know I talked about it earlier, but call it fate, call it destiny, but we're really good timing. At that time the director had really wanted to make sure that the new resource they had was taught with fidelity and you know I, being an outside perspective we're really both of us being outside perspectives we were kind of able to bring this lens that allowed us to collaborate with the educators to get the biggest impact in the teaching and learning, and I think that really is what set this journey together and really made it so successful.
Speaker 1:I agree so now everyone kind of has that backstory. They have a little bit of an idea of what it was like when Jackie and I kind of walked in Jackie being their new like one of their leaders and instruction, and then for me as a consultant coming in. So let's talk a little bit about what the work was like. What did we end up kind of doing? Can you talk through that? Yeah?
Speaker 2:When I first started to think about that. It really makes me think the work we thought we were going to be doing versus how it kind of shifted towards the end. It took a little bit of twist and turn. You know, I think about the old adage of like all roads lead to Rome, and when we started, the idea that Rome was going to be this destination of clarity to the new resource that the district has adopted, and so, in coming in kind of the roads we started to take originally were providing clarity to teachers and educators in the district and professional learning towards the resource and also professional learning towards the workshop model.
Speaker 2:When we started this journey, this trip to Rome, it became abundantly clear very early on that there were very pivotal pieces missing within, you know, details towards the standards, and it immediately allowed us to say, okay, wait a second, we have to take a step back and look at why, what was going on.
Speaker 2:And Because the teachers are, you know, they're amazing educators, like I said before, and they had done this previous work that we wanted to Capitalize on, and that previous work was utilizing the standards to make I can't say that which I think that all across education, you know, at least for the last, you know, 10 years or so I can't take statements have kind of made its way into teaching being your learning objective or Kind of guiding your lessons.
Speaker 2:So we wanted to use that work of their I can statements to, you know, to Give professional learning into the resource and into the workshop model. But I can't. Statements showed us that those pivotal pieces of standards were missing and it almost created, like this false sense of security and and not only within within the teachers, but also within in what we were comparing and creating. And so that false sense of security changed our trajectory and we really started to look at what was missing within the standards and what details we needed to capitalize on so that we could really get to the meat of the standard and to know that we were teaching it to its fullest potential. I don't know what do you think about the, the idea of I can statements and false sense of security, because to me that was such a big takeaway.
Speaker 1:Well, I think what we Saw is something that we see all the time in education, so it wasn't unique to to a Particular organization, which is Something it's like a predictable problem that we'll see a lot. That predictable problem is something that in leadership myself having been in leadership, so I'm pointing the finger at me when I say this we would often times ask Teachers to unpack standards and write I can statements, and we did a couple of things. First of all, it's hard work and we do a couple of things. Wrong it is. It is incredibly hard.
Speaker 1:We don't have a protocol and so we just say just do it, and so everyone does it a little bit differently. We don't show the value of unpacking a standard and what we can do with it, and we don't give them the time To be able to do it. Not uncommon for us to think, well, I've already unpacked standard, I've already Created these, I can statements and so I know my standards, and that was kind of that's I Would argue. I would argue and I'm not saying this, I'm saying this in general is that a lot of times we don't because we haven't done the hard work.
Speaker 2:You know, I think that is is so, so true. I mean, the people are doing work, really are the people doing the learning? And I think we write like when we started and we started Giving that professional learning and having the edges you know collaborate. It became clear that the I Can statements lacked the ability to be a teaching tool. Instead became this like tedious task of just something that was done and something that they had to do and Right away you could see with it, just like looking at the teachers and and seeing how they were acting. That it it was like a box to check instead of like something that you could see and use for multiple different things.
Speaker 2:And that's really where, you know, we realized that these I can statements, for as great as they sounded, we needed to start the journey. Instead of making clarity towards the resource, it was Utilizing proficiency scales to build clarity towards the standards, because those details weren't there and, as the teachers were looking into the resource and looking into and the lessons they've already had created and different things, those details were missing. So the standard wasn't getting getting taught to to the fullest or it was being taught to too much, and so we were spending a lot of time looking at, at ways in which it was like trying to fit around peg in a square hole, and so, because of that, proficiency scales became our new journey and our new why into our work right.
Speaker 1:I Look well, I love this and I love this story because this is this is a story that you see a lot in In organizations and this is a successful story. So we'll be able to get to that in just a moment, but it's something that we see a lot in education. Is that it? So? I'm like, hold it. It's a success in the.
Speaker 1:What we'll do as leaders is we'll purchase a resource, demand that it's taught with fidelity, but we don't do the background work so that we can see, like the background work being what do students need to know, understand, be able to do so?
Speaker 1:We need to figure that out. Go back to your Wiggins and McTye and understanding by design courses and study their books, and that helps build, like the why and the what that we're teaching, and then the proficiency scales Provide the clarity, the way we're assessing, so we can see what the expectation is and then we can dig into Now, what resource do we need to be able to teach this? Because what you'll hear often is Is this doesn't align to the standards. If you buy something, you get a lot of pushback. People are really upset about this change because they haven't done the background work to be able to make that decision and have the stuff that they need to make sure that their students are mastering those standards and and sometimes we just don't know them to that that level. So when we're teaching something, it's like it doesn't align with the standards.
Speaker 2:But when you unpack the standards you're like, oh, maybe it does and that's really what I think makes this also a success story, like you were saying, is it is. You know, you start the work and you you have to reevaluate your why and then you try to Go through the process. So when we reevaluated that, oh okay, we need proficiency scales to get into those details and to Kind of give that background work, then all of a sudden that tediousness just loaded away and and it became intentional and Meaningful, and those I can statements Something that they had to be posted or that gave this false sense of security that we were doing it to the level of the standard now became something that educators knew exactly what details went into it. They knew exactly a vertical alignment and level of how it fit in the each within other grade levels, and it became a like a, the foundation and for what we looked at when looking at Resources and what resources we could potentially need to use to fill this particular area of our curriculum that is missing, and so we would use the proficiency scales as a rubric To be able to help do that.
Speaker 2:And if it was very, very meaningful and beautiful, because the proficiency sale itself was created by the teachers with the guidance of of us, and so we really started creating proficiency scales, utilizing a gradual release of responsibilities, so Showing educators here's a completed example and and letting the teachers look at it, letting them, letting them use it and Compare it to a resource so that they could see its meaning.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, it wasn't something they were doing, it was something they were using. So each and every time we worked together Then, in the beginning, we had gifted a proficiency scale, but by our second time working together, we were creating proficiency scales on other standards together, and Teachers wanted to do this. They wanted to see and utilize this Into their curriculum. So no longer something that feels tedious. Now it's something they want and that kind of unsolid foundation. After coming out of COVID and switching into From text-based lessons into workshop and things feeling a little uneasy now, all of a sudden these proficiency scales became our solid foundation and so they were wanting more and more and more, and the clarity, the, the joy was coming, you know, with each and every creation of a proficiency scale.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think there's a couple things I I want to point out to those who are listening today. One thing one. I'll start with this first. The first thing I want to point out is that Jackie and I met the summer of 2022 and Her heart was heavy for her teachers. She wanted to serve them and serve them really well, and she wanted to spark joy and bring excitement back To the work that they were doing.
Speaker 1:Things have been so heavy for so long and she said she was very, very adamant that that be the center of everything that we were doing. What can we do that's going to spark joy? And how can we make learning fun, getting that background knowledge where we were able to sit down and just be completely transparent with teachers? That this was, you know, long time ago. We we went from zero to a hundred without doing 25, 50 and 75. Before we went there. We skipped some steps and and they were like, thank you, like now this is starting to make sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah, something that Jackie did was let's gift them a couple of proficiency scales, and what that did meaning we walked in, jackie and I sat down for days and had like three proficiency scales. So know that this is not easy work, but something she did that was really nice was honor the work that the teachers had done when they were really working at their best level in between meetings during the school day to unpack standards on their own, and so we took what they had, we completed unpacking the standard and then and made sure that all of the standards and all the grades that she serves had the same. So the protocol was the same, and Then we created the proficiency scale as a model, so then, as we were studying it with the teachers, you could feel the relief like, oh, I can use this, this makes sense to me. You could see the you really could.
Speaker 2:It was, it was an emotion in the room. The feel was there and, and, and you could see it come off of them, of like you. You felt that, that Confidence come back.
Speaker 1:Yes, then that's what I was like. There was an empowerment and excitement that was building each and every time we met teachers there. There they were feeling supported. They were feeling like they had the tool that would be helpful for them. They had clarity, so any misconceptions. We were able to make that as a team crystal clear. And when she said I want this to be a gift, it really was a gift. And teachers were begging for more and and more of her and for more of that knowledge. And now they're empowered and they don't need us like. It's beautiful.
Speaker 2:Right, it's beautiful and the, I think one of the most the shining star out of all. After the journey had been created, we kind of had that independent release of the proficiency scales to the team. It was no longer, we were no longer needed, and it felt very Mary Poppins like that. We were creating this work together and by the end they were moving into other standards. They did together, look at over, like, see what you guys think, and in itself you saw the full circle of clarity and you saw a solid foundation and those proficiency scales turned from not only a tool to evaluate the resources and the, the lessons that they were creating, but then they, they became the they're, they're, they're, so they're, they're such a multi tool that teachers now could use them for formative assessments and summative assessment and then, as their, as education is kind of you know, we're moving through on on how to teach to the best we can teach in the amount of time that we have.
Speaker 2:It's a. That tool becomes kind of you know, you're, you're shining star, if you will, because it's your checkpoint for everything. Oh, we need a summative assessment. Let's use our proficiency scale to see which one to pick or create. Oh, we need to take formative data to ensure that our students are reaching to their full, maximum ability and proficiency on this particular lesson. Let's use our proficiency scale. And it then became not only a tool but they were using in a resource to identify things, but now a multi tool.
Speaker 1:Right. When you can light a fire and educators, nothing can put it out. And when you can get people excited about learning, you can get them excited about learning. You can get them excited about learning. You can get them excited about learning. You ride that train and they are excited about learning and they're seeing the possibilities. There's nothing that can stop them. There's nothing that can stop them, and that's that's really exciting. So now they kind of get a little gist, a little bit of an idea of what it was like in the process, and then they start to think about what it was like to be able to do the work.
Speaker 2:You know that's that, I think, brings the largest smile to my face and I know, for those of you who are listening, you can't see my smile, but I'm smiling ear to ear. We're going to really think about the end result because for teaching and learning, you know, I and we've said this before in in today's episode, but I also think that when we started this work, we were coming out of COVID, there was a transition in philosophies of teaching, there was a new resource and I think everybody in education, especially coming out of COVID, that there was a unsolid foundation and when we started our work, we knew that that wasn't something new going in. But the, the process itself started as a way just to gain clarity into the standards and the. The end result has been so much more because teachers are joyful and they find now that their objectives and their ICANN statements are meaningful and intentional. Student learning has increased. You know, for every, every grade that we have worked with, we have seen an increase in grade level performance skills by students across the board and like meshing that all together and saying, okay, we now have this immediate impact on student learning. This proficiency scale now became this multi-tool that we can use to be able to lack, guard our curriculum together. So, no matter what resource comes our way or what thing we're looking at possibly editing and enhancing within our curriculum, we have something that ties us together, just gained so much power for the teachers and created this unbelievably secure feeling in a time where, like I said that, you know we needed that. Education needed that.
Speaker 2:And that has been the largest impact, I think thus far, is not only are we seeing student performance, but we're seeing teachers feeling secure and and powerful and teaching to the standards and knowing that they are making the largest impact on every student that walks in their door.
Speaker 1:You know and as you're, as you're talking, Jackie, something that you would see is I thought was really beautiful as they were coming to this clarity and feeling empowered, the reflection that they had and the vulnerability to be like I think I've been doing this not quite to the level, or maybe I like this unit a lot, or this novel a lot, and it might not be the best unit, and we all do that and just to be that vulnerable was incredible. It was. It was truly a gift on our part to be able to witness that and have those kinds of conversations together, alongside them, like ooh, maybe we could make a couple changes.
Speaker 2:So much so. And you talked about being an administrator earlier. I was one of those educators, so I'm going to pull it back to me here a minute and thinking about when I was teaching in the classroom. There were certain lessons that I didn't want to let go, because I just loved them and they were like my babies and so I didn't want to let them go. So, having those reflective conversations, I can say for sure I would have been an educator who would have been like no, no, I, you know I need to keep this, I need to keep this. But the teachers we were working with were having these unbelievable conversations and they they maybe loved something they were all in for saying we need to edit, change, enhance and utilize. That. It was so profound and the camaraderie that came out of it, the team unity that came out of it and the, the, the empathy for it, for their team, as educators, it was. It was so, so, so powerful Team unity.
Speaker 1:That really sticks out to me. That's a really. That is something that I hadn't even really thought about until you just stated that, but they really did come together as teams and and even then vertical teams, as they studied each other's, because each of the proficiency scales built upon each other, so they had to rely collectively on one another to to fully understand what they were teaching, and, and that really sets your schools up for success.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it like I just it's one of those situations where it's like you know that in this moment that nothing was just like by happenstance. It was because those educators and teachers, they did the work, they did the learning and it wasn't just by luck that it pulled them all together, because they are amazing teachers and amazing individuals, but the work itself was so meaningful and intentional that it pulled them together in this, in this unified sense, and you know, I could see that being something that would be consistent year after year after year that they are utilizing these proficiency scales and you and pulling them and pulling the teams together as new educators come in and other ones retire, I know that these proficiency scales will continue to be the lock guard of the curriculum.
Speaker 1:Wonderful. As we start to wrap up, I would love to hear, like, what lessons we learned? What might we change? What would you say to people who are or even like? What would you say to people who are considering starting this work?
Speaker 2:Oh, my goodness, I would say do it. Do it now, like start the work immediately. It is. I wouldn't hesitate.
Speaker 2:To any district and any educators that's thinking about it, I would say do it now.
Speaker 2:It is, you know it, not only does you know for districts who want to increase their academic rigor or for districts that want to empower their teachers.
Speaker 2:This is something that works hand in hand together to do both of those things.
Speaker 2:I think that timesides 2020, I think that, for me, one of the largest lessons that I took away from this and I learned is that it is so powerful for things to be meaningful and intentional and that, as you know, as things in education are presented whether it be from a district level, a state level, you know, a federal level, whatever it may be knowing the why behind that is key, and that in itself, showing a purpose then allows that work to you know you have a why, and that, to me, was one of the largest lessons that I took away from it was knowing the why before the work is started, because that builds like a sense of, like a task, and it builds a sense of empathy for everyone being pulled together to be able to work on this task and in it we have such meaningful and intentional learning that comes out of that that we, you know, we gain that academic rigor and we gain the empowerment of educators, which is what is was and is so successful about this work.
Speaker 1:I would love just to add on something that I want to point out, that another the why is like my jam. I totally love talking about the why, like why are we doing this? We need to know the purpose of this, anything else that was really another lesson, that it's something we did, and if you're trying this journey on your own, I want to teach, I want to tell you this. I think this is important. We did the work. Jackie and I sat down and did the work first. That showed that we were in the trenches and be. That allowed us to see those predictable problems that they were going to face and we could make a plan, a protocol to set them up for success, and I think that's key.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that you said that, because in that work, the work that you do myself, I felt vulnerable in the work and so I recognized those emotions. So, knowing that that could be a potential or predictable problem that would come out of work with teams, I was ready for vulnerability if it presented itself, and how to build that confidence and competence in an educator that might have been feeling vulnerable like I did when I first started, because I think as educators we want to know what's the perfect, right answer. Am I doing this perfectly? And you had to go through it to know that that end result that comes out is perfect? It's perfect because the knowledge is in within the people and the knowledge is in within the, the person and educator themselves, instead of some power in a program or power in one single thing. It's in the educator themselves.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh, that's like a mic drop right there. That is the perfect way to end our podcast today. Jackie, thank you so much for that wisdom and for that inspiration. I want to say thank you for joining me today and talking about our journey together. This experience is going to be so helpful for someone who's thinking about getting started. Just do it Like she said it is a game changer.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much everyone for listening. You go it really is it's, and you it really is a game changer, and you are absolutely so welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you. Have a great day, everybody. We would love your help. We have set an ambitious goal of impacting the learning of one million students in the 2023-2024 school year. Share this podcast with a fellow educator and reach out to us so that we can talk with you about how we can best support you and your school district and meeting those ambitious goals and providing professional development that meets those learning needs. Have a great day.