Welcome to the Compass PD podcast, where we navigate the ever-evolving landscape of professional learning in education. In this episode, join Dr. Stephanie Brenner as she sits down with special guests Kelly and Chris to embark on a transformative journey in literacy education.
Tune in as Dr. Stephanie and her guests share their remarkable odyssey of reshaping phonemic awareness and phonics instruction within their district. Their story begins with a quest to elevate the content knowledge of literacy leaders in their community, setting the stage for a profound shift in how they approach teaching reading.
The heart of their journey lies in meticulously examining their existing phonics resources, which they systematically compare with evidence-based research on the foundational principles of reading. This critical analysis leads to a pivotal decision – to leverage the materials already at their disposal while constructing a new scope and sequence aligned with the science of reading.
The podcast delves into the nuts and bolts of how the literacy team tirelessly crafted daily lessons that adhere to the best practices of phonics instruction. They share the challenges they encountered along the way, emphasizing that their path was not always smooth, but every moment of effort was worth it.
Kelly and Chris candidly recount their realization that while they were working hard before, the desired results in student learning remained elusive. The turning point came when they realized it's not about the program itself; it's about harnessing evidence-based research, expanding content knowledge, and being unafraid to roll up their sleeves and get to work.
The podcast highlights the tangible outcomes of their dedication and determination: heightened expertise within their district and a curriculum that now harmonizes with the science of reading. Perhaps most inspiring of all, they achieved this transformation by making the most of the resources already available at their fingertips.
Join us in this illuminating episode of Compass PD as we explore the inspiring journey of Dr. Stephanie Brenner, Kelly, and Chris. Their story serves as a testament to the power of research-based practices, continuous learning, and the unwavering commitment to improving student outcomes in literacy education. Tune in now and chart your course for transformative professional development in education!
Welcome to the Compass PD podcast, where we navigate the ever-evolving landscape of professional learning in education. In this episode, join Dr. Stephanie Brenner as she sits down with special guests Kelly and Chris to embark on a transformative journey in literacy education.
Tune in as Dr. Stephanie and her guests share their remarkable odyssey of reshaping phonemic awareness and phonics instruction within their district. Their story begins with a quest to elevate the content knowledge of literacy leaders in their community, setting the stage for a profound shift in how they approach teaching reading.
The heart of their journey lies in meticulously examining their existing phonics resources, which they systematically compare with evidence-based research on the foundational principles of reading. This critical analysis leads to a pivotal decision – to leverage the materials already at their disposal while constructing a new scope and sequence aligned with the science of reading.
The podcast delves into the nuts and bolts of how the literacy team tirelessly crafted daily lessons that adhere to the best practices of phonics instruction. They share the challenges they encountered along the way, emphasizing that their path was not always smooth, but every moment of effort was worth it.
Kelly and Chris candidly recount their realization that while they were working hard before, the desired results in student learning remained elusive. The turning point came when they realized it's not about the program itself; it's about harnessing evidence-based research, expanding content knowledge, and being unafraid to roll up their sleeves and get to work.
The podcast highlights the tangible outcomes of their dedication and determination: heightened expertise within their district and a curriculum that now harmonizes with the science of reading. Perhaps most inspiring of all, they achieved this transformation by making the most of the resources already available at their fingertips.
Join us in this illuminating episode of Compass PD as we explore the inspiring journey of Dr. Stephanie Brenner, Kelly, and Chris. Their story serves as a testament to the power of research-based practices, continuous learning, and the unwavering commitment to improving student outcomes in literacy education. Tune in now and chart your course for transformative professional development in education!
Welcome. Thank you for joining us on the Compass PD podcast. I'm Dr Stephanie Brenner of Compass PD and today's a really, really special day that I'm super excited about. I am joined by some of my colleagues Christina Maline and Kelly Anderson. Welcome, chris and Joan, thank you. Thank you For those of you who are listening.
Speaker 1:If you've been paying attention lately, then you'll notice that we've been working on a lot of opportunities to support the education system.
Speaker 1:That's one of the goals of Compass PD and one of the ways that Compass PD is doing this is our team is taking a different view for stakeholders and coming together to give a glimpse of what kinds of things might need to be on your radar and predictable problems that you're going to face throughout the school year.
Speaker 1:An additional layer that we have really been adding, a little bit sprinkling some things in, are bringing in guests who are outside of our organization but who have worked with us in some way, and so that we can together share our story.
Speaker 1:That is the exciting part about why Chris and Kelly are here with us today. So they are going to be sharing some of the work that we have been doing together and our hope for each of you is that you'll gain some insight into our process, gain some wisdom, even, and things that because of things that we wish we would have done. Now that we're on this side of it, it's always something that we take away, but one of our big goals is that you could take this learning and the work that we're going to share with you, make it even better, but then come back and share what you have learned so that we collectively grow as an organization, but also we collectively grow as educators. Let's start with Chris and Kelly, and can you guys start telling us about yourself, tell everyone who you are and the work that we started together.
Speaker 2:So my name is Kelly Anderson and I have served as the Title I reading teacher and then this year I kind of switched hats and I am now teaching second grade. And when I think back to our work a year ago is when it started, and at the beginning of that school year we began that journey by starting a four day pretty intense phonics academy, learning the nitty gritty of all of the reasons why our language is the way it is. We did that so that we could do all of this work with our phonics program.
Speaker 1:I remember those four days because I remember telling you, guys, you need to have somebody else cook dinner for you.
Speaker 3:Yep, definitely, yeah. So my name is Chris Molin and I for the past two years have been the academic interventionist at our school, which serves grades two through four, and this year I moved into the Title I reading. I'm excited to continue seeing that phonics work grow among the staff and then also utilize that in interventions with students.
Speaker 1:Can you talk to me a little bit about, like, at the beginning of last school year, what was the current reality and kind of what triggered the work that we began and kind of the reason behind that? Certainly so. The current reality for our school was that we really noticed there were just gaps in students phonics knowledge and their phonemic awareness.
Speaker 3:We gathered that data through universal screeners, through writing samples, diagnostics. It was also really evident in their reading. For example, we had students who would test proficient in their guided reading level for their grade level, but when we would give them words in isolation they struggled. They could not read those words. So we knew that they were really just relying heavily on the pictures and the context. We also had students who when they would come to a multi-syllabic word, they would maybe look at the first few letters and then just kind of take a guess. So we knew that there was some gaps there that we needed to fill.
Speaker 1:And I also remember part of our journey being coming together and looking at as a district data and doing some problem solving, especially as we were looking at subparts of the screening data to notice trends and patterns across grade levels and the district as a whole, because it can predict some gaps in the curriculum. And then I remember us really, kelly, with one of your students when you were a first grade teacher, diving into problem solving and growing a picture of what's really going on behind the scenes here when we started. I just remember the feeling of all of your staff and you guys included. We're all working really, really hard, we're all doing all the things that we're supposed to be doing, but we're not seeing that in our students.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that was where the sense of urgency really came in. What are we going to do about this? We see this problem, we think we're doing all the right things, but what changes are we going to make? What are we going to do with this problem? So a group of teachers and leaders we knew we had to act and do something.
Speaker 1:That passion and that willingness to act and be open to some new learning that really pushed you as educators a little bit. That was our beginning, and then that kind of moved into okay, so what are we going to be working on? So can you guys spend some time explaining to us what that worked, look like and what we ended up focusing on?
Speaker 3:We started after the Intense Phonic Academy we really took a close look at our current scope and sequence and how it compared to some others out there. One thing that we really noticed was that it was kind of cyclical. We noticed that there were some phonic skills that were taught in second grade, third grade and fourth grade. Then we went and we looked at some other different scope and sequences from research-based programs such as letters or foundations 95%, group, Orton, Gillingham were some of the ones that we looked at. From those we had big conversations about what would work best for us. We finally found something that we felt was going to work for our district, that was systematic and just something that we knew would ensure that all students would have the necessary skills that they needed to be proficient and confident readers.
Speaker 1:I remember us too, knowing that it's not about necessarily the program. Is there anything like you could talk about that a little bit? Because we did look at several different scope and sequences and phonics and phonological awareness after we honed in like this is probably where the problem is. We analyzed the resource that we were using currently, but then also the other programs and how we got to what we were going to do. Could you talk about that a little bit?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember sitting there like why don't we just buy something else? If this isn't working, let's just buy one of these. I think that when we looked across all of those, we started to see patterns and trends and how it maybe didn't match what we currently had. So, knowing those patterns and trends in all of those other sequences, how can we pull from those and develop our own and make our own scope and sequence that seems to fit most others that are out there?
Speaker 1:But it still fit your district's needs yes, your district's goals and values about what does reading instruction look like for our kids, what does phonics and phonological awareness look like in our schools for our kids? So we weren't becoming, we're only doing this program. It was more about how can we have this? This is our values, these are our goals, but we know we need to make some changes and trying to make the best decision for our students.
Speaker 1:After that, when we were kind of like we need to make an adjustment to our scope and sequence because we think that that might be one of the big things that we need to work on. What happened next, do you remember? I remember, so we can talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2:Okay, so I'm flashing back to the Post-it notes. We were sorting and sifting through Post-it notes. We had skills written on and we were sorting and making sure grade level it builds on each grade level. We're not teaching the same thing two through four. It builds each year so they have that knowledge going forward. That's what I remember a lot of shifting Post-it notes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like the list of the tables full of notes and the skills all over the place and we knew maybe one skill was in this grade level but we now know we need to move that to another grade level because they need it. So a lot of adjusting and developing something that was systematic for your K-4, really and not necessarily worrying about where the original program had it in place, making a good decision about what was best needed and then going from there. So really building a nice curriculum. I remember after that some of the fun things that we did too. Would you like to talk about some of the other things that we did on this journey?
Speaker 2:Once we had our scope and sequence lined up for our district, then we were ready to write daily lesson plans and we didn't really know which direction to go. So, stephanie, you modeled what a lesson looks like so we could see it in action and really get our head wrapped around the whole lesson from start to finish and all of its components that it needed. And once we saw a well modeled lesson, then it was time to dive in and start writing lesson plans to match all of those skills in our scope and sequence.
Speaker 1:I remember the looks of like whoa Our floor faces when seeing the lesson, but also the classroom teachers, the looks when they saw the adjustment to the actual lesson and what happened with their kids during that.
Speaker 3:The comment that stands out in my mind was wow, they were engaged. They are never engaged like this during phonics, and so I think just having you model that at the beginning really generated some interest, some excitement about the phonics work that we were doing. That felt good.
Speaker 1:And one of the things I remember about that time too being was the teachers commenting on the kids were actually doing the work independently.
Speaker 3:Right, yes.
Speaker 1:They were actually trying the skill and starting to transfer some of that and seeing like, oh wow, they've never been able to do that kind of.
Speaker 2:Thing.
Speaker 1:That was a common thing too. So it was good for you guys to see that lesson in action, but then also for the teachers to see the power of what phonics in one study could look like. And you guys had to write lesson plans.
Speaker 3:We did you want to talk about?
Speaker 1:that I'm not sure.
Speaker 3:At first yes, I think the looks on our faces where we were overwhelmed but seeing you model it, having you give us that solid base of knowledge, the groundwork that we needed, providing those great vetted resources for us that made it much more manageable. We took our time writing the lessons. We really had to go slow at first in order to go fast. It really helped for us. Then, after we had created some of those lesson plans, we took those lessons into the second grade classrooms and we taught for a whole week. Having that action research just really helped us as we visualized the activities that students were going to apply their knowledge for. That helped to see that in action. It felt really good to do that, to see it come to life. Also, just the feedback from the staff was amazing. We had built some more excitement. They were suddenly excited about phonics, which was not the current reality that we had been living. Nobody was excited about phonics before. So that was a big catalyst for us doing that hard work and continuing the hard work. It felt good.
Speaker 1:So something I'm wondering is why do you think there was the sudden excitement behind phonics and word study after seeing you guys model in the classroom the lessons?
Speaker 2:I think what we currently are were using at the time was falling flat. We still didn't get the results. We were looking for the new stuff Again. I know we use that word engagement. It was quick pace. Students are practicing a skill over multiple days and we start to feel like we're getting it work. It's starting to stick and to see that happen over the course of a week, that's where I think that excitement came and we took off with that. It really gave us, as writers of those lessons, to continue that work because it was the right work.
Speaker 1:And I remember in those conversations it was really hard work to be writing it and it's also hard work to put you yourselves in a vulnerable place of going and modeling these lessons. That were not familiar with having a place to practice and be vulnerable with scary empowering. Some of the conversations I remember were that the students were actually starting to apply the learning and so, kelly, you said sticky. It was like yeah, finally.
Speaker 1:So having that really explicit focus over several days on one skill being something that even the classroom teachers commented on as they knew that they needed this, like it was a oh gosh, this is what we needed to be able to really practice a lot, and we're not seeing that those high leverage skills that students needed and phonological awareness and fun, if it was the idea of we're working our tails off and we're not seeing this. So you know the results and students Now we're still working our tails off, but we're starting to see the results of it makes the work worthwhile.
Speaker 3:Definitely.
Speaker 1:And seeing that shift in you guys, that it was a big win for you guys, writers of the last one as well. So what were some of the obstacles?
Speaker 2:So sitting down and writing daily lesson plans for an entire year is a huge undertaking in itself, but then knowing that we could only include materials for the part of the lesson with skills that had previously been taught. So to expose kids to things they've not learned yet, it's not fair to those kids to practice and apply. So we had to be super meticulous about our word choice and right when we think, okay, it's all good, we have all the right words they've learned, oh nope, there's another one. And having to go back and tweak a little bit and I just remember how. Again, okay, but we know that that is an appropriate thing to do for students to apply correctly. So again, it was the right work, but it was definitely a challenge.
Speaker 1:And was that part different than what was being used previously?
Speaker 3:Yes, I don't think we realized when we were teaching phonics how many words we were presenting to those students that had not been taught to them. So no wonder they were frustrated, so much of it was not decodable to them. And then they weren't practicing, they weren't reading, they weren't writing and they weren't making gains because there were so many obstacles for them during the applied part of it.
Speaker 1:At the beginning. We, you know, so far in this journey of work, we did a lot of digging into data and analyzing what's going on and what is maybe missing, and then coming to this idea of, okay, this is what we're going to do, and committing to a year's worth of work to figure out the scope and sequence of the work that needed to be, and then actually diving in and doing really intense work. That was really hard but also worthwhile because you were already seeing the impacts of it in your students. So now here we are. We've finished those lessons, but now, in the place that we're implementing, can you switch of time talking about that, where we are and how things are going?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we are just starting our school year here. We're just in the third week of school and we have the curriculum off the ground. We're in week two of our lesson plans and so much positive feedback already from teachers and staff that are doing this. And it's really interesting for me because I was a Title I teacher writing this and now I'm in second grade teaching the second grade material that I wrote. I love that. I am a part of that and can be a leader through all of this and knowing that, yep, we are all learning it together and I'm glad to be a part of that. A lot of teachers also attended the phonics Academy training over the summer and I think that also propelled us. We just feel like we have a really good base and understanding that four day course. It really helps their knowledge and the why behind why we're teaching what we're teaching.
Speaker 1:I think that that is a really powerful thing to say, kelly, providing teachers that professional development helped them be prepared for what they were going to be teaching. The type of professional development wasn't program based. It was literally building their content knowledge on the foundations of our reading and writing system, so teachers are more equipped to respond to their student needs. Besides some good feedback and that's everything. How are things going?
Speaker 3:going very well. One obstacle for some teachers so far is just getting all of the lesson components in Within that time period. But we have to remember it's the beginning of the school year. We have students who are we're teaching behavior expectations and we're figuring out management of materials, and that will all come.
Speaker 2:I think we also are finding, after we completed one week of instruction and gave the dictation to see do, did it stick? And I think, grade level wise, we all said that was they. Just it's not there. And I also remember during our work, stephanie, that I said there's going. I feel like we're going to jump into the deep end and we're all going to be floundering and I feel like, yep, the kids are floundering right now, but it will get better as they keep going through the scope and sequence and it starts to build for them. There will be a gap there for a little bit and we'll try to close it and build on that. So that was another thing we've noticed right away, too is like, oh, we're a we, we jumped right in with two feet. Here we go.
Speaker 3:Definitely more rigorous work on the part of the students because, like said before, they're doing the work, they're reading those words, they're writing those words. That's not something that they were accustomed to doing before, so it is going to be hard at first.
Speaker 2:We can do it.
Speaker 1:So it's like keep in mind those types of things, right like so, if you're, like now, also sitting where we are, what kinds of things do you think you learned, and is there anything you would have changed?
Speaker 3:I'm just glad that we were able to jump in and do this work, because I guess what I learned was that we were not doing what was best for kids when it comes to phonics instruction. We did not have a phonemic awareness piece before, we were not giving them decodable text, and we are now. We weren't asking them to do the right kinds of application when it comes to reading or playing games or word sorts. We're having them kind of share about their learning as well either. So I feel like the biggest learning that I came away from was all those essential parts of that phonics lesson. You can't leave one of them out. They're all important.
Speaker 1:Yep, yeah, one of the things, too, that you both have mentioned is the scope and sequence. It's adjusted and the thing that we can learn is that, knowing that our tier one instruction follows a very nice scope and sequence that allows teachers to focus on the big things that are most important, and I know that this grade level is doing this work, so I don't need to do that Like, yes, of course I'm going to do a little bit of review, but I don't need to spend a bulk of my time doing something other grade level did so that we can be more targeted in our identification of students who might need some extra help. If you were to be able to talk to people who are considering adjusting their scope and sequence or trying to start at this place of we're working our tails off or not seeing gains, what would you say to that? Just people who are just starting this kind of work?
Speaker 2:It's a commitment Just hands down. It is a huge commitment, but it's to the betterment of so many students and what they can achieve. It's the right work, yeah for sure.
Speaker 1:One of the things I think that I have to commend the team and that also includes your district leadership is the commitment to the right work. It would have been really easy and then ship. It could have been easy to purchase a new program. However, was that the right work for your district and for your kids? Was it the right work for your teachers? Because what you did do was grow their knowledge?
Speaker 3:Absolutely, Definitely that's. That's huge.
Speaker 1:There are so many hard things and education that sometimes doing that hard thing is not an easy decision to pay. You and your district decided to do the hard stuff and stick it out. Because of all your hard work and sticking it out, what are you looking forward to?
Speaker 2:this all coming to life. This is it is in action and still getting that feedback. It's positive, the kids are engaged and it excites me and one of my favorite parts of the day is to come in and be able to teach that second grade phonics lesson.
Speaker 1:What would you add, Chris? What are you looking forward to?
Speaker 3:Well, not that I want to fast forward the year, because I don't, but I am really looking forward to seeing the data at the end of the year. We have a lot of growing to do and when Kelly said second grade was struggling with these lessons, the first two weeks are review of first grade skills. We know that the work we are doing is right because they did not have those first grade skills. So I'm really looking forward to just watching the kids grow this year as readers become more confident. I'm looking forward to seeing the teachers become more confident in teaching the phonics and grow their knowledge as well.
Speaker 1:Those are really cool things to be on the lookout for and to see, like, how does this play out? No-transcript. So what's up next for you guys? You're teaching second grade, I am. I'm teaching second grade.
Speaker 2:So that has been a big change for me this year and love it. I just love being in the classroom. It's where I'm supposed to be.
Speaker 3:I am able this year as the Title I teacher, I'm able to push into phonics in second, third and fourth grade, which I love to do. I'm trying to bounce around and support the teachers as much as possible, so that feels really good too.
Speaker 1:What a great way to just continue this work. I think it's cool that you guys get the opportunity to actually be the people that are putting it into action too, not just like I'm handing it off and it's my baby and somebody else is going to do it.
Speaker 3:Right, for sure, definitely feels like our baby.
Speaker 1:It sure does. We know that that's really good for your teachers and good for your students. Congratulations I've said it so many times to you guys so proud of you and the team and all of the hard work that you went through. Just like you, I'm really anxious to see how the year goes. I can't wait to be back in the district this year so that I can hear and see all of the things that are happening too. It's just very heartwarming for you to see the successes that you guys are having. Chris and Kelly, thank you so much for talking to me today and sharing your journey. I think that your knowledge and experience has the potential to really be helpful to people who might be getting started to know that, oh, that's where I was, that's what I'm seeing, and you're really going to be helping other people feel like they can do it too. Is there anything that you would recommend to those who are listening?
Speaker 3:I would say to start off by just really looking carefully at your scope and sequence and how it compares to others out there. Look at the components of your phonics lesson. Does it have any make awareness? Does it have decodable text? Does it have time for kids to practice those things? I guess the last thing is just be brave enough to ask those hard questions If in your heart you don't think this is benefiting my students, you need to ask those questions and try to do what's best for kids, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Those are just super powerful. Last thought Really take a close look at your current reality, be willing to accept that it's the current reality and know that. Okay, now that I know more, I can do better. As far as we're all wanting to do what is best for all of our students. What great party words. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having us. Thank you.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited that you guys were able to join and we were able to make this happen. Those of you who are listening, if you didn't know, this about Compass PD. We have a huge goal, which is to impact the learning of one million students. We are on our way, but we would love to have your help in making that possible. You can do that by sharing this podcast with a fellow educator and helping them know that there is this kind of work happening out in the world. There are places and people that they can rely on to lead the way for them. Thank you again.