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Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Episode 53: Dyslexia Support 101: What Every Educator Should Know
Kick off Dyslexia Awareness Month with Dr. Carrie Hepburn and dyslexia expert Dr. Stephanie Brenner as they dive deep into understanding and supporting students with dyslexia. Learn what dyslexia is, the key systems and structures needed for success, and practical strategies to empower students and their families. Don’t miss this insightful episode packed with expert advice, tips, and inspiration to help educators make a lasting impact in their classrooms.
Hello and welcome to the Compass PD podcast, where we dive into evidence-based practices and research-driven strategies that empower educators and leaders to make a lasting impact. I'm Dr Keri Hepburn, your host, alongside the fabulous Dr Stephanie Brenner. Hi, stephanie.
Speaker 2:Hi Keri.
Speaker 1:We are really excited today because we're exploring one of Dr Brenner's favorite topics dyslexia. Whether you're a teacher, administrator or a district leader, our goal today is to provide you with insights and tools to help you navigate the complexities of education and dyslexia and inspire student success. So here's what you can expect. If you didn't know, october is Dyslexia Awareness Month, and this topic is near and dear to our hearts. Many states in our area have developed legislation around teacher preparation and professional learning for educators. Regardless of legislation, it isn't unusual for us to hear some of the same misconceptions regarding dyslexia that we heard 10 years ago. So today we're going to let Dr Brenner do her thing and educate and inspire us so that we can continue to support all students, especially those with characteristics of dyslexia. Stephanie, could you like tell us what kind of inspired you? What is the foundation like your passion around dyslexia?
Speaker 2:To make it in like 15 seconds or less. It came down to the fact that my own son. I started noticing characteristics of dyslexia in him and I needed to learn more about that. Then, within that, I started. I came in contact with a good who else call? Well, his mom told me I can say his name, and he's an adult now, and he's told me I could say his name um, his name's Charlie, and he forever impacted me as an educator of kids with dyslexia, and all wrapped into that is the idea that I want teachers to be empowered to make informed decisions about dyslexia and their instruction so that they can help the students within their classroom.
Speaker 1:I think what people. I want to give everyone kind of an outline of what our day is going to be like, or our chat today is going to be like. We'll talk about what is dyslexia, then we'll move into what systems and structures should we have in place for our students with dyslexia, and then what can educators do to encourage students and parents. And listening to your story how dyslexia has impacted you I think that we're going to learn a lot as listeners about how we can really encourage the students and parents, because it is hard whenever anything's hard. So this is going to be such a great episode. Thank you so much for joining us today. Let's kick off first with what is dyslexia.
Speaker 2:So that's a hard question for me to just give really quickly, because there are, in the world of education, kind of two definitions going around. There's the definition that the International Dyslexia Association, or IDA, recognizes, and it's longer than another that I'll talk about, but the one from IDA is probably the one that's most widely recognized and so I'm not I don't want to bore you, but really the definition according to them is dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurobiological in origin. It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and or fluent word recognition and by poor spelling and decoding abilities. These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the phonological component of language that is often unexpected in relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective classroom instruction and the provision of effective classroom instruction. Then secondary consequences may include problems in reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede growth of vocabulary and background knowledge. So that's really long and it has a lot of words.
Speaker 2:And again, that's the IDA definition. And again that's the IDA definition. And then in 2018, within federal law, it's the First Step Act of 2018. It's defined as an unexpected difficulty in reading for an individual who has the intelligence to be a much better reader, most commonly caused by difficulty in phonological processing, the appreciation of spoken sounds, of spoken language, which affects the ability of the individual to speak, read and spell. So hearing those two definitions side by side, you really get that at the core, dyslexia is a phonological processing disorder.
Speaker 1:I know when you were reading the IDA definition, my brain was trying to comprehend all of the words and make connections to those, so it really did help me when you read the first step X from 2018, that definition and then just simplifying a little bit and I know this is very complex, so we don't want to simplify this at all, but just trying to make a foundational understanding of what dyslexia is is really helpful. So what are some characteristics of dyslexia? Is is really helpful. So what are some characteristics of dyslexia?
Speaker 2:And so the beauty of both of those definitions being as detailed as they are, is that they really do provide what I guess I'll call major umbrellas for the characteristics within the definitions. So beyond that, like the four umbrella characteristics that all are categories of characteristics that I'll kind of speak to, are in the areas of reading, writing, speaking and like other, but I'll give a few examples of each of those umbrellas. So in reading, some of the characteristics that we see most often are slow, choppy, inaccurate. Oral reading Kids will also overly rely on context. As they're reading meaning, like they rely on the meaning of what's happening, not necessarily the print in front of them. They have a lot of difficulty decoding unknown words, especially the ones that are longer, multi-syllabic words. They have difficulty with rapid word recognition. So you can think of high frequency words or a word they've seen it on one page but they don't know it on the other page, and other things. While they're reading out loud, they will have little attention to conventions and their reading will be really monotoned. So you can kind of think of this that they're reading aloud, it just sounds and feels laborious. While you're listening to them You're just you've got this feeling like, oh, what's happening and something's not right here.
Speaker 2:The next umbrella would be writing, and the writing is incredibly phonetic or has very poor spelling. In their writing, words will exclude sounds or even entire syllables because they don't hear them when they're trying to sound the words out. Their writing is often using very limited vocabulary, so how a kid might talk about a topic or a story and then you look at their writing and it doesn't match at all. All those details are left out. Their physical writing looks different too, so it might have really forced handwriting. They might have really large print and even varied spacing In their writing time, their stamina. It just takes them a really long time to compose and their writing also has no use of convention. So there's no punctuation or capital letters in addition to the spacing issues. So if reading sounds and feels laborious, you can look at writing and it looks laborious, like they put in a lot of time and effort to get on the page what's on the page.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in speaking we will see kids mispronounce words and I shouldn't say kids because it's adults too. So individuals will mispronounce words, they will incorrectly recall words, especially ones that sound familiar. So I always use the example of like elevator and elephant. When I wanted to say the word elephant, I might say elevator instead, because they sound phonetically the same. They will fill space with um and it's just like a processing thing. They need more time to think, so it's um, um, um when they're talking. And then there's a lot of usage of very vague language so and it comes back to that rapid recalling of names, so they'll say thing or stuff instead of using the right terminology and so that's like they're reading. I'm sorry their speaking can sound choppy. So if we get that reading sounds laborious, writing looks laborious, then their talking kind of sounds like huh, what is you have a hard time following them. Then that fourth area would be other. So and this is just other characteristics that can go into any area Rote memorization is a big one.
Speaker 2:The kiddos and adults will. They'll fatigue really easily with reading and writing tasks. They have a hard time finishing assignments and assessments on time or test taking. And there's actually a really high correlation of comorbidity, meaning they happen together often with ADHD level of comorbidity that some researchers will even say that if you have an individual that's diagnosed with ADHD you need to test them for dyslexia. Or if you have a kid who or a person who is diagnosed with dyslexia, you need to assess them for ADHD. There's that high of a correlation. So we've talked a lot about some things that are not so good, but I think it's easy for us to not remember that there are some things that are good, in the sense of there are a lot of strengths for people who have dyslexia, and some of those are that they excel in areas not dependent on reading.
Speaker 2:Kids who are individuals who are dyslexic have a really easier time to see the big pictures. They don't rely on nitty gritty details. They get the gist of things really quickly. They connect ideas and concepts in new, novel ways and much easier than their peers. They tend to have a really high vocabulary and their comprehension when they're not responsible for the text is often really high. So during read-alouds, they're the ones that can answer all of the questions. They're the ones that can answer all of the questions even though reading independently they struggle, and also kids and those who are dyslexic often have an exceptional ability to be empathetic with others.
Speaker 2:The last thing I want to mention with this idea of the characteristics is it is really important to remember that these difficulties are unexpected and it's because people with dyslexia often have an average or an above average intelligence. And that's what makes dyslexia this like conundrum that people who should not seemingly struggle in reading and writing as much as they do do. And so with the characteristics, that's how you can like. How do you know if the kid's dyslexic? You just wouldn't expect this to be the case when you look at their strengths strengths in other areas.
Speaker 1:Wow, I mean, I don't people can't see my, my notebook, my professional notebook. But you know, as you're talking, so many students are going through my head and I imagine that that same thing is happening with fellow teachers or or educators who have had a classroom and they're just, they have like pictures of students going through their mind right now Like I wish I would have known. I wish I would have known. Why is it important for us to know or notice these characteristics?
Speaker 2:It really goes to exactly what you were saying, Carrie, because it's like I wish I would have known, Because if I would have known, I could have appropriately intervened and intervened sooner.
Speaker 2:That old adage of it's easier to catch or intervene early is really important when it comes to dyslexia, and I'll even say that with teachers and educators when you start to notice the characteristics, you don't need to wait on a diagnosis to start to do something. It's very much if you see some of these characteristics do something and if it start to like, provide accommodations and support so that you can reduce the struggle that kids have. You can reduce their likelihood of having a lot of frustration and lower confidence and just a loss of enjoyment in reading, writing and in school. So yeah, if you see it do something, do something.
Speaker 1:Do it as quickly as possible do something, do it as quickly as possible. Well, that's the perfect segue into the next part of our podcast today, which is what are some systems and structures we should have in place for students with dyslexia, but, honestly, probably characteristics of dyslexia. You know all of these things, so let's start with talking about how do we set up the learning for students.
Speaker 2:It really is essentially multi-tiered system of support.
Speaker 2:So if you might have heard that term, mtss or the phrase MTSS, so it's. We have to have explicit and systematic instruction in all areas of tier one instruction, in all areas of tier one instruction. When it comes to dyslexia, it's really important to have that in place in the areas of phonological awareness, phonics, reading, writing and vocabulary. After that, you really need a strong universal screener that offer and diagnostic assessments that are used systematically to identify kids who are at risk, and then also the ability to monitor their progress with those same screening and diagnostic tools. From there, the next part is having very targeted, very targeted intervention programs that are again you'll hear me say this over and over explicit and systematic and utilize progress monitoring. We have to see how our kids are responding to the instruction and intervention we're giving, because that is again one of the key ways to know if your kiddo is dyslexic, has a learning disability or they don't. Kids who are dyslexic respond very, very, very slow to instruction and intervention. Kids who do not have dyslexia are going to respond quicker.
Speaker 2:And those are typically like we talk about the bubble kids, or they just needed it one more time. That's how you know the difference between the two. Okay, and so that's why progress monitoring is so important. From there, I cannot emphasize enough that intentional professional development for all educators has to be incorporated into the systems that are happening so that we can build their content knowledge around the areas of reading and writing, not just training in a program.
Speaker 1:What do we often forget or miss when it comes to supporting our students who have dyslexia, dyslexia or characteristics of dyslexia?
Speaker 2:It's really easy for educators to become like centered around themselves in the process of instructing and intervening with students who are dyslexic or have characteristics of dyslexia with students who are dyslexic or have characteristics of dyslexia and in that gets lost the amount of repetition that a dyslexic student needs with content before they are consistently and accurately applying the learning independently.
Speaker 2:And so it's easy to think I've done this, like we, but we've already done this 17 times. You as the proficient adult has done it 17 times, but if you're the dyslexic kid, they probably need 78 more times. So like removing yourself from the the scenario it's. It's about the student and their needs, and within that is, the kids are trying their best, they are trying hard. They don't want this to be a struggle either, so it's not like they're tricking you and trying to make it look like they're still struggling with it, or that they've never heard this before. If they knew it, they'd do it. So that I think those are two ideas that kind of go together that really get lost in the world of how do we support our students best.
Speaker 1:I think that's something that I've learned from you over the years again and again that it is going to be slow and the gains you're going to see little gains, but when you do it the right way, it impacts their learning and their education and their, their students' confidence and and how they become readers and writers and it transforms their life. So we have to be patient and we have to know it's going to take time. It looks different. What are the biggest strategies or tips that you have for educators?
Speaker 2:So what I was planning on wanting to talk about, what you just said just like segue so perfectly into that, because, beyond what I've already mentioned of implementing instruction that is research and evidence based, that is taught explicitly and systematically, allowing for many, many repetitions towards your students, focus on their strengths and to celebrate all of the little successes as much as possible. My BFF I joke, my BFF Sally Shaywitz she doesn't know who I am, though, so that's the joke there she talks about how you have to protect and nourish the souls of the kids who are dyslexic, and I feel like that is one of the biggest tips and strategies for educators to keep in mind.
Speaker 1:Protect and nourish their souls. I would love one day. I have met with many educators and I know you're the same, but I've met with an educator once that her father was dyslexic and he was in his seventies and she was putting him through all of the lessons and the learning that he never received and when he was able to finally read his first book, like the tears that were coming, because he this impacts your life in every way and we have the opportunity to protect and nourish and impact that life for good, and that's a tremendous gift that we have and a tremendous load that we have at the same time tremendous load that we have at the same time. So, as we think through this, this is another perfect segue into what can we, what can we as educators, do to encourage students and parents? So what do you recommend for teachers and administrators who support students with dyslexia?
Speaker 2:I have literally seen the weight of a kid come off their shoulders. When you help, when you recognize or you tell, make them feel like they're seen. So telling a student that you know what they're going through is very hard. You know it's not their fault, that they haven't done anything wrong. You tell them that you can see how hard they're trying and and then also tell them exactly what you're doing to help them. So this isn't always going to be so hard for them. Like, help them, see that you have a plan for them and you're going to make sure that you, you see them succeed.
Speaker 2:In that, that can really take a lot of the weight off of their shoulders, because it doesn't make sense to them why they're struggling in this area of their life when they don't struggle in other areas or their friends don't struggle. So that's one thing. And then, like I've already mentioned, the idea of celebrating their success and their progress, finding different ways to celebrate their success. That is not what the traditional celebration or recognition might look like. So, for example, you might, instead of celebrating an increased number of words read per minute, you might celebrate increased accuracy rates, instead of celebrating how many sentences or paragraphs that they write during a given amount of time, like looking for volume. You instead celebrate how their spelling is becoming more accurate because they're recording more sounds when they are able when they're writing. So finding alternative ways to show success that uh are more in line with the actual goals you have for them.
Speaker 1:I know I've heard you talk with students too like our brains all learn differently, like when you.
Speaker 1:One of the things I've heard you talk about is we're doing these things again and again because our brains learn differently and your brain does these things really easy, where that's really hard for my brain and these things are a little bit harder for your brain. So we're training your brain so it gets easier. So I love listening to you just like so it gets easier. So I love listening to you just like be the kids and acknowledge them. I also love that you're giving us other things to celebrate besides the traditional like really fast and volume that we would see when we're giving a screener or something like oh my gosh, you read this many words a minute, and so that's accuracy. We want them to be accurate. Right words a minute, and so that's accuracy. We want them to be accurate Right now. You know, and I know, being a parent is hard, and then being a parent and seeing your child struggle is even harder. The hardest thing, yes. How can we help and encourage the parents through this process?
Speaker 2:Just like I've seen the weight of a kid's shoulders be relieved, I've seen the weight of a parent come off and parents cry when you literally just have open, honest communication with them and help them see that one things yes, right now in school are really hard for their kid. Acknowledge that, but then also acknowledge it's not always going to be like this for them, this for them, that their child is still going to be able to do whatever it is in life that they want to be able to do. The path of getting there is going to be different, but they're still going to make it. Having very honest communication about the goals you have for them, the intervention that you're putting in place for them and their progress, so that they there's nothing worse than being let on to believe that your kid is further along, to then later find out that was a lie, and so be kind about it. But be honest about where they are and the path that you have for them and realistic about the amount of progress that you think they're going to make within a given period of time, so that they aren't let down or frustrated even more when that doesn't happen or if it doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:And then at home. I think parents are always like well, what can I do for my kid while they're at home and they're reading or they're writing? Providing some of the prompts and language that you, as the educators, use with their student during reading time, during writing time. Provide those to them to use for their student when they're at home reading, so that the language happening at home is the same language that's happening at school, to cause less confusion for the kiddos and that is often something that parents will latch on to Like. Tell me what it is you say to them when they get stuck on to work.
Speaker 2:Tell me what it is that you say to them when they don't want to read anymore. So give them that language to use with their kid at home.
Speaker 1:That's so great. I mean I'm sitting here thinking about this entire episode and how much our listeners are going to walk away with. You talked with us about what is dyslexia, what are some characteristics that we're going to see of students who could potentially have dyslexia in their reading and their writing and their speaking and in other areas and all of our brains were going back to students that we've had in the past or maybe even students that we're having now, or maybe even students that we're having now. But I love that, through all of this, you talk again and again about the empathy and seeing the students and understanding that this is one part of the student and it's hard, but letting them know and their parents know that there is something we can do and we can help you with this, and we all have different difficult things. There's so many beautiful things happening in your child's life. This is just one area that we're going to tackle together. We're not quitting. I heard you say that it is critical for us to not wait for a diagnosis, to jump in now and start doing something, and you gave us tips for that, like thinking about the multi-tier support system, giving students lots of repetition, making sure that it's explicit and systematic in our teaching and then ensuring that we use research and evidence-based content explicitly with students with ample repetition. You gave us some really great tips on how to encourage the student and how to encourage the parents through this whole whole episode. Thank you so much, stephanie. You're welcome. I really believe that this is going to be so powerful for so many people I know it has been for me. If you have any thoughts or experiences, we would love to hear from you. If you have anything that you would like to talk more about.
Speaker 1:Regarding dyslexia, dr Brenner loves to do things like that. As she was talking, I was thinking, oh my gosh, I feel like people keep hearing these words systematic and explicit and it's like an evidence-based. What in the world is that? That could be so many different episodes that we could just really dig into that even more. So please reach out to us.
Speaker 1:We would be happy to do an episode on that, and if anyone would like more learning on this, all you have to do is reach out to Compass PD, and we do have some online asynchronous classes around dyslexia that Dr Brenner has taught, just so you know, next week, dr Feller is going to be exploring responsive teaching, but with a secondary lens, and she's going to be joined by a special guest, but with a secondary lens, and she's going to be joined by a special guest. And then, I think two weeks from that, dr Brenner, you are going to be hosting and joined with a special guest and your topic's going to be Dyscalcula. Thank you, and that goes perfectly through regarding Dyslexia Awareness Month. So we're thinking responsive teaching, dyscalcula, and then we'll have another episode again regarding dyslexia toward the end of the month. So I want to thank you for joining us on the Compass PD podcast. Remember, at Compass PD, we believe that every educator has the power to inspire, change and transform student learning. Stay focused, be inspired and keep making a difference.