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Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Episode 62: The Gift of Learning
In this special episode of the Compass PD Podcast, Dr. Carrie Hepburn is joined by Dr. Stephanie Brenner, Dr. Sherri Lorton, and Dr. Natalie Fallert for a lively celebration of The Gift of Learning. Together, they reflect on their personal learning journeys, share their favorite professional development experiences, and offer practical strategies for overcoming the challenges of making time for growth. From book recommendations to ideas for fostering meaningful professional learning, this conversation will inspire educators and leaders to embrace the lifelong pursuit of learning.
Tune in to discover how investing in professional growth can transform your practice and ignite your passion for education!
Hello and welcome to the Compass Painting Podcast, where we dive into evidence-based practices and research-driven strategies that empower educators and leaders to make a lasting impact. I'm Dr Keri Hepburn and your host, but really not, so I'm just going to throw that out there. I am joined by my good friends and colleagues Dr Natalie Fallert, dr Stephanie Brenner and Dr Sherry Wharton, and really you'll probably hear us jump in at different parts of the podcast, because what we're talking about today is something that is near and dear to our hearts. It's learning, and you'll hear some things about our learning journey. What I can tell you is that we are the kind of people that are nerds and we kind of geek out when it comes to learning, so we understand that not everyone has the same enthusiasm and excitement that we do regarding learning, but what we hope by the end of this podcast is that you are inspired to learn and that you don't feel overwhelmed. We want you to be excited about your learning journey. Good morning, happy January 2nd 2025. How are you all today?
Speaker 2:Doing great, excited for the new year.
Speaker 3:I'm trying to wake up, honestly.
Speaker 4:Doing good, ready for the new year, ready for, you know, new beginnings and Continuations of things that I've already been doing as well.
Speaker 1:Well, today we're going to talk about the importance of learning. You will hear from us some information about how learning became our passion professional learning specifically, how we have some books that really impacted us in our learning journey, some challenges that we face as learners and some ways that we've overcome those challenges, and then we want to share with you our commitments to what we want to learn in 2025. Let's get kicked off by just talking about how did professional learning become one of our passions? Natalie want to tell us all about yours.
Speaker 2:Sure. So I was thinking about this and this. Actually, if I, if I just think about learning in general, and I will go back all the way to when I was a little- girl and I was a blonde and I was fairly naive.
Speaker 2:I'm still naive. My husband tells me all the time that I don't have great straight smarts and but I'm, I'm very book smart. So growing up I I think that it was a little bit more of a an insecurity for me, because people would kind of call me a dumb blonde or say those blonde jokes and I would in a sense overcompensate by studying and learning more so that I was the smartest person in the room or tried to be. And I think that that started that whole, just like love of learning, that I wasn't really good with street smarts, like I am very naive and I still am, but I knew that that was something I could control, like I could learn and read and and gain knowledge.
Speaker 2:So from a fairly young age I just started digging into academics and books and those types of things. But then I also learned that like I didn't like not knowing something and I also didn't like when somebody would say that I was wrong or something. So I wanted to to dig in and learn. I will say that my professional learning probably shifted after I had kids and my kids went to school and once they became kindergartners and I I started learning that, like I want every kid who goes into school should have the best teacher every year, regardless, and the only way that we're going to get better is if we learn more as educators, and so I think that that was. Another shift for me was professionally, I dug in after they went to kindergarten and I wanted to learn more so that I could be a better educator for other people's children. That's kind of my journey.
Speaker 3:I will say that once I became a parent, my journey as a like an educator definitely changed Also. I just I started feeling the same way that I hoped that I would be the kind of teacher that kids came home and said positive things about, like my kids were coming home, and so that was always something that was in my mind too. But my like journey of becoming somebody who loved professional development or professional learning really kind of started when I became a literacy coach. And when I started as a literacy coach I didn't really know what I was getting myself into. I really thought that I was going to get to be a reading teacher, you know, like somebody who sat down and did reading stuff with kids that had trouble. So I quickly learned that really wasn't the gig. I wasn't the person in charge of doing professional learning with teachers, and that was that was a huge learning curve for me, to go from teaching kids to teaching adults.
Speaker 3:And once I was in that learning curve of oh, how does this work, how do I reach adults that's what it sparked for me that it was just how do I, how do I reach adults? And as a literacy coach I was gifted so many wonderful opportunities of my own professional learning. And I was thinking, I started realizing not all teachers are getting the same amount of professional learning and I wanted to share all of that with them. And so that was really where my love of professional learning came was that I was thrown into the gig and quickly realized that I liked it a lot so and people told me it was good at it, so that just kind of fueled my like, keep going with it type of mentality. So I'm always into it, into professional learning in the sense of I've been granted a lot of my own learning and I want to be able to give others the same type of amount of learning as well.
Speaker 1:I love that. Thank you so much. It's so fun to hear everyone's journey. Sherry, tell us about yours.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So I mean I've always enjoyed sharing my love of learning with others, whether it was from the time I was a young child playing school with you know, my brothers and sisters up through you know, high school and college, and helping others, and whether it's with tutoring or just helping out friends. And of course, as a teacher I got started out with students. I was fortunate pretty early in my career that one of my administrators saw my potential as a leader and asked me to go to a conference, not just for my own learning but to also bring that information back to my colleagues. That information back to my colleagues and that kind of sealed it for me and brought me into leadership roles within teams that I worked with then, into coaching, which was mostly math coaching at that time, and more at a building level, and eventually working with teachers and administrators in curriculum and instruction and assessment at the district level. So it's really served me in my career to be able to learn and share that love of learning with everyone else.
Speaker 2:So, carrie, how did you get started into all of this?
Speaker 1:Well, what's so interesting is, as all of you are talking, I had a little connection with everyone and I'm sure that we all did.
Speaker 1:It was like, oh yeah, that kind of happened in my journey and this happened in my journey and I had kind of a plan. And now I feel like I want to change it. I want to change it. When Natalie was talking about trying to prove herself, one of my teachers in high school my algebra teacher which is probably why I say I'm not a math person let me know that he had done all he could for me and there was no hope I was not going to be able to do math, period. And that really stuck with me. And, coming from my family where my mom didn't have a high school diploma, it was something that kind of really resonated with me that maybe I couldn't, didn't have the ability to learn. And so, long story short, really quickly I was doing daycare as a stay at home mom. I had children very young, so some people know that, some don't and when I was doing daycare, people would say that I did things different than most daycare people and I didn't realize that I always had a list and it was that I was actually teaching them and providing experiences that helped kids learn and grow. And so my husband said why don't you become a teacher? And I was like I had never thought about that.
Speaker 1:Well then, once I went to school, figured out what I wanted to be, my desire and my heart for learning just grew exponentially and I found out that I could learn. I have to work about 10 times harder than everyone else, I feel like sometimes, but I can learn and I have the ability to learn and learn at really high levels. So, being from a parent that didn't have a high school diploma and education that's something that many of us know. It takes generations to overcome those kinds of things I was really driven that if I was going to go into education and be a teacher, I wanted to be the kind of teacher and educator that I wanted for my children and that would break these cycles.
Speaker 1:So that was really my drive professionally is that all kids deserve somebody who's learning at those high levels. So when I got to learning and in schools I don't know about you guys, but I like I love the conversations, I love the way we feel empowered, I love being inspired and it almost became like an junkie, like an addiction junkie. When we talk about being nerds and we love this, that's what it is that really drives me, but more than anything, I love the impact that I see when I learn. So, whether it's the impact on my life because I'm applying it, or what I'm teaching other people and they're applying it with students, I love seeing the impact of that learning. So that's really that's my learning journey, harry.
Speaker 2:I. You said something that made me want to kind of just throw this out here Because I think it's important. Like your, your mom did not have a high school diploma and I am a first generation college student, like neither of my parents ever went to college and now I have my doctorate, and so I love that idea of like breaking those cycles, that my parents didn't even register me for college, like I did it 100% on my own, filled out my FAFSA forms, because I just wanted to go and learn more, and they were proud of me, they were happy, all those things, but that was it, and I don't think I'm the only one in this boat in, you know, in this conversation.
Speaker 4:Yeah, agreed, my parents did not go to college. However, my mom especially recognized the importance of that and that was never really a question for me. It was always. It was never a will I go to college. But where will I go to college? Because my, my mother did recognize the importance of that, that she did not go. And then, you know, she, as as women often did, in the 60s, she got married right after high school and then she had to live as a single mom. You know, she was divorced at a fairly young age and then she didn't have any education to fall back on. So, recognizing that as being a very important thing and being able to use that to live your life and be able to support yourself and any family, of course, I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, my mom was kind of the same, was the same. My parents didn't. They had high school diplomas. My mom had a little bit of extra school. She was a CNA, so she had that path of I think it's like an associate's degree type of thing that you have you get in order to get that certification. But for us at growing up it was what are you doing after high school? There was always a it's going to be college or a trade school that there wasn't an option of not doing something that was furthering our education. So we all my brothers and I knew that we had to do something. It was the expectation for us. She wasn't going to let us get away without doing something and my dad just did what my mom said.
Speaker 1:So I do think it's so interesting that all of us have that history. You know that was part of our drive and part of our journey to become learners and to inspire other people to learn. I think when my mom, my parents, got divorced and she didn't have a way to support herself, that's when she went back to school, and one of the things that she told me all of the time is make sure you have an education and a way to support yourself so that you don't end up like this, and so that's something that was always in my head, like you have to be able to support yourself and be able to provide. That's not something that we hear a lot of people talking about anymore, but it definitely, back in the day, that was something that we would hear more often.
Speaker 2:But I love that you say that, because my mom never said this to me. But my parents are divorced also and I remember watching my mom. They got divorced when I was like in eighth grade and I had an older sister who didn't go to college. But I'll remember watching my mom Like there were times that our phone would get shut off, our electric would get shut off because my mom couldn't pay the bill and she was too proud to like necessarily take money from my dad in the divorce.
Speaker 2:But like I remember saying to myself I will never be dependent on anyone else. Like I want to be able to support myself and the only way I know I can do that is through my mind. Like because it's the one thing that I can feed my brain and learning and no one can take that from me. And I knew that that was my only way out and that was that was another thing that kind of pushed me was watching my mom struggle and being like was watching my mom struggle and being like I am not going to be dependent on a man or anyone to provide.
Speaker 1:Yes, I agreed, agreed. I know I'm sitting here thinking we could really talk about this for a long time. It's a therapy session. It is therapy. So for those of you listening, our childhood traumas?
Speaker 2:Yes, we all have them right, what are?
Speaker 1:but we'll move on so that you don't we don't have to go through all of it with you. What are some of the best professional books you have read over the course of your learning journey? Let's start this time with Sherry. Sherry, can you talk to us about some of your best professional learning?
Speaker 4:Yeah, sure, sure. So Understanding by Design is, like I feel like has been for years, my Bible for education, probably because I did so much work in the curriculum and instruction field. That's by Wiggins and McTighe, and then the classroom instruction, that works books and the handbooks that go along with them. So that first edition was by Marzano, pickering and Pollock. It's been updated a couple of times with some newer researchers and new, you know, based on new research. And the visible learning and the Visible Learning series of books by Fisher Fry and Hattie are also great. They started with really just general visible learning and understanding what that is, and then they branch off into different content areas, so for mathematics or for ELA and yeah those have been a great series also.
Speaker 1:Can I just say what I love is that, as you're talking about these books, what people who will be listening can't see is that the rest of us are like nodding our heads going yeah, that was a good one, that's a good one.
Speaker 2:Can I throw out really fast. I think we're all really coming from different districts, like in our public education world, and so it's interesting because we are all shaking our heads because these are pretty standard professional books and I think it would be important that, like, if you haven't read any of these, I think everybody on this podcast has read every one of those that she is. I haven't read the mathematics one for visible learning, but I have done the ELA ones. Either way, that idea of like, no matter what district you're in, these are important books in this world.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, I agree. Stephanie, can you talk to us about your professional books?
Speaker 3:I was when I was thinking about this question. I thought about it in the sense of what are the books that I recommend most to people? Because I feel like if I recommend a book a lot, then it's had a big impact on me, and so three books come to mind. First is Overcoming Dyslexia by Shaywitz, and the new second edition is Shaywitz and Shaywitz, but I think that that book is, for sure, one of my best favorite professional books. Then I love the book it's called the Coaching Habit by Michael, and I never I don't know how to say the guy's name, so please forgive me, michael, if you ever hear this Michael Bungay Stainer, I think I totally I'm messing up his name and I really apologize, but it's a fantastic book, so highly recommend that one too. And then, finally, quiet Leadership by David Rock is another one of my favorites that I really love a lot, and I am going to add one more, but I have to look at my shelf because I always say it the wrong.
Speaker 3:The Fifth Discipline, discipline by Peter Senge. Is that how you say it? Senge, s-e-n-g-e? Um, that is another one of my favorite professional books. A lot of people don't, but I read read that at my doctoral cohort and that was like you love it or hate it book, but I was. I love that book. It's about systems thinking and how to approach complex change. I appreciate all of the information in that book.
Speaker 1:I think it was one of those books that I loved and hated. It was sort of like dry toast but it was so meaty but kind of boring. Does that make sense? Yep, all right. Thank you, natalie.
Speaker 2:Oh, I have so many.
Speaker 2:I so I'm going to just I want to throw out that. Um, I love books. Um, sheryl Sandberg and Renee Brown are great for empowering anybody, but really empowering women and finding your seat at the table. I love their book. Just going to throw that one out there. Um, I'm going to throw out another one really fast.
Speaker 2:That is not on any of my list, but it's strength finders. We did this as a part of our cohort and if you ever just want to know about yourself, I learned so much about myself in reading that book strength finders and doing the little quiz and so many things, that I used to feel bad about myself. I realized I shouldn't feel bad about them. I just need to own them and be like this is the type of person I am and, if I can start with that, like it's funny because I'm not a woo person, if you read the book, you'll know what I'm talking about. Carrie is so there are times that I know that I'm not good at that, so I can go to her and say I need help with this because I'm coming off as a jerk, and so it's. It's a great self-reflection book, but either way. So now I'm going to get into the books that I have and I'm going to. I'll touch on two of them and then I'm going to let Carrie she can touch a little bit more on them, but one I have them in front of me Read or Come Home, and it's about it's like the reading brain in a digital world and how the digital world will impact the way that we critically think. World will impact the way that we critically think, and this was important for me as a teacher, as a you know, like professional development leader and also as a mother of teenage boys. Then the other one was Revenge of the Analog, which is also about digital world and almost like saying like let's go back to pen and paper because we can be more creative. So I have recommended this book to people in education and outside of education and I was at a record store the other day and I told a guy he needed to read this book, but either way. So, yes, we do this all the time. Then I'm going to go into this book. I got stuff written all over it Grading for Equity.
Speaker 2:This is by Joe Feldman. I don't know if you've ever read this book, but it is a game changer, not only professionally but also as a mother. But it is about looking at grades and it in looking at mastery work and it's not necessarily saying, oh, we should go to what is that? What type of grading system is that that elementary do all the time standards based? It's not necessarily saying standards-based grading, but it it was very reflective, especially as a secondary educator, because it really tries to take out the subjectivity of grading, which is really hard as an ela teacher to do that.
Speaker 2:And, um, it really looks at the inequities. And so I, for those of you don't know, I'm the mom of twin, identical twin boys. And this is really important because when I say this to teachers, like if my kid has teacher A and then the other one has teacher B and they are given the exact same assignment, is it being graded the same way? Is, are you, is teacher a putting the same value and worth on that as teacher b? And that can impact their learning, because if I only do five points and somebody else does 50 points, is the kid going to dig in a little bit more because of those points and are they going to learn it different.
Speaker 2:So it's a it's a crazy changing life changing book. I love it, but that's it. And then I'm gonna. I'm gonna say, if you're an ELA person, I would throw out anything by ELA secondary Penny Gallagher sorry, I'm assuming you're on Kelly Gallagher Penny Kettle. And then I do love Jennifer Cerevello, even as a secondary educator. She has some great handbooks that are helpful to teachers handbooks that are helpful to teachers. Then I'll stop, but I could keep going.
Speaker 1:I know it was really hard to pinpoint just a few to talk about for all of us. I feel like we should do a book club that everyone could join and we could all do nerd out together. Wouldn't that be fun? Okay, so I will try to go through mine a little quickly, if I can, because we had it's about systems change, but we had a lot of emotion and I couldn't figure out where all of the emotion was coming from. With our staff and it was around different initiatives and all of the things that were happening that happened in a district all the time.
Speaker 1:And this book really changed the way that I wrote curriculum and I approached professional learning. We always took the time early on to start with why? What do we want for our kids? But why is this important? Why do we want this? And it helps set the tone for really hard work with the teams that I was working with, and you can use that for communication. I could use that for communication through everything that we did, whether it was in my newsletter or we're here today, because you know this is what, why we do what we do in ELA or in the gifted world or whatever it was that we were working on.
Speaker 1:Then the second one I'm going to touch on is one that Sherry had chatted about with Wiggins and McTighe Understanding by Design. That is a game changer and a best practice when it comes to developing curriculum. It teaches us about developing high quality curricula and how to think about keeping the end in mind and then designing your instruction, your assessments, with that end in mind and progressing from beginning of the year until the end. I've read every single book that Wiggins and McTighe have written to date. They are kind of like the fifth discipline kind of dry toasty is what I say. I've watched, I've seen them in person Wiggins has passed, but I've seen them in person.
Speaker 1:I've done webinars Not super exciting, but boy is the content rich. So it is really worth the investment if you're in curriculum or want to be in curriculum, to spend time in that. And then, finally, the Revenge of the Analog that Natalie had shared. I wanted to share that book because that book really touched me in ways that helped me think about myself as a curriculum leader and think about myself as a teacher, that we really learn better and increase our problem solving and critical thinking when we have physical, tangible things. So super fun to talk about our favorite books and why, but let's talk now for just a couple of minutes about what are some of the challenges that we have as learners and how have you overcome those challenges? Somebody just jump in challenges.
Speaker 4:Somebody just jump in. I think time is always a thing that we always say, like there's just not time, there's just not time. And what I have found for myself is that I have to schedule it, I have to put it on my calendar, I have to purposefully set aside time, whether it's time to make sure I'm reading that professional book, whether you know, I know I need to watch a tutorial online or even do a book study with a group of colleagues. I just have to make sure I schedule it and make it a priority because it's so important to me.
Speaker 2:I will say surrounding yourself with people who are learners. And I've worked in districts where they're really small and there's not this passion from others to want to learn. And so, number one, if you're in a district like that or you're in a space like that, then you be the leader, like step out and just say I'm going to do this, who wants to join me? And be vulnerable and just put yourself out there because you want to, or start doing it anyways, and see if other people will join you. There are also, like other communities out there. You could go back and get your master's or go get your doctorate or join a Facebook group or some type something along those lines. But surrounding yourself with other learners is important and as a parent, I tell my kids that, like you want to be a good person, surround yourself with good people, because that's you're going to learn from them, good or bad, either way. So put yourself in a community of learners in some way, shape or form.
Speaker 3:I think that a struggle for me is really definitely what Sherry mentioned with the making sure it's on my calendar and scheduling it. Making sure it's on my calendar and scheduling it. I'd add to that follow through, like, if I have it on my calendar, I prioritize it, because I'm easily the person that will find another thing to do that like, oh I have time to do that later. This is more important right now. So more important right now. So, and I say to other people, if you value it, it's your priority or you prioritize what is you value.
Speaker 3:And I don't always live up to that in this area. But one of the other struggles I have is honing in on a focus, like just picking one thing, because there are so many things at so many different times coming at us. Like I, teachers are recommending books to me all the time, or new topics are always coming up in the world of education, have a membership to a professional organization, so I get a book sent to me once a month on top of the magazines that I get that are then full of all this new information about what's hot in education, and so it's sometimes the options overwhelm me and so then I don't get started.
Speaker 1:I'm that person me, and so then I don't get started. I'm that person Fair, fair we all have fair challenges and solutions to overcome those challenges that we have For me. What helps me I was thinking a challenges committee and a solution that I have is making it public, so finding people to hold me accountable, and so I make that public. What am I committed to learning right now? One of my favorite things I love to do that people hate when we do professional learning is just sort of what are you reading list and have everyone pop up and share, and that helps me add to my reread stack up and share and that helps me add to my red stack and it also puts a little peer pressure that we should be, we should be as professionals, learning. So, as we kind of end this little part of our segment, we're going to wrap up today with what are we committed to learning in 2025, and each of us is going to make that public so that you, our audience, can hold us accountable to that.
Speaker 2:Natalie. So last year we started writing some units and books in the ELA secondary world and we haven't finished those yet, and part of what's holding me back is that I don't know what I want it to physically look like, like the publishing end of it, and I know that that sounds crazy, but I have a lot of content, but I don't know how to put it in a pretty package, and so that is one of the things I want to learn more about is how to get it published in a reader friendly, visually layout thing. I don't know. So if you're listening to this and you're a design person, or you have any suggestions.
Speaker 2:I would love for any advice.
Speaker 1:That's mine text her, find her on social media, send an email, all the things. She's ready. We can go to lunch, sherry.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So something I feel like I don't have a lot of knowledge in yet that I am going to seek out is AI how we can use it in education, whether it's for teachers and also for students. How do we help them navigate this new resource that is available to them but also use it in the best and, as always when it comes to technology, the most responsible way. So, learning about that, and then you know, on my less professional side, more personal side, I have been working on becoming a certified yoga teacher. My goal is to get that wrapped up this year. Also to tap in a little bit to my creativity and my creative side, something that I've never felt confident about. As far as that realm of creativity, it feels like logic and analytics is kind of my thing, but from what I understand, apparently everyone can be creative and artsy, so I'm going to try to tap into that a little bit more this year. Oh great.
Speaker 3:You said. From what I understand, everyone can be creative.
Speaker 4:It's kind of like how, whenever you guys say like I know Sherry doesn't want us to say, I'm not a math person, but I don't feel like a math person, I'm like that with, I'm like that with creativity, oh, that cracks me up, Sherry.
Speaker 3:So me, I, I I'm kind of like I'm going to start with my personal stuff, because it really does piggyback off of something Sherry said. So two things. One is my sisters-in-laws are on this sourdough bread making kick and I now have a starter in my refrigerator and I feel like peer pressure to make this happen. So I have to learn how to make sourdough because I do not want this starter to die.
Speaker 2:Okay, Stephanie, I need to say this. I don't know why, but I thought about this when it came to learning and like how we're talking about learning, and one of my things about learning is that, like you, you can give it away, but you still have it. And I was thinking about that friendship bread, like how you get this thing and you like meet it and you make it better, and then you give up, like you share it with someone else and then they grow it and then, but you're, you don't get rid of it, you still, and so it was. So it's so weird that you say that, because I was thinking about how learning and then sharing your learning is like that stupid bread that now you're going to make either.
Speaker 3:I don't know if it's friendship bread, but it's, I got something like that Sourdough starter, and apparently I've got to name this starter, I don't know.
Speaker 3:So I have a lot to learn about making sourdough bread. And the other thing is, um, kind of the creativity side is that, uh, the last couple of weeks I have been doing some like making of things, that for gifts. That started out and I'm really enjoying that. So I kind of wonder, like I've gone to a few craft fairs so like how could I be a craft seller If I like making the stuff and I'm kind of getting um, being crafty, I could sell it. So maybe that's something to get into.
Speaker 3:So, but sourdough bread and that are two of my personal things. But professionally I um, don't have necessarily one topic I want to dig into. It's more of a learning commitment, which is to read one physical professional book a month. I do a lot of listening to audio books and less of the physical book in my hand highlighting and I know for myself that I'm not learning as in depth. It's kind of like what is in the books read or come home and revenge of the analog they apply directly to me. So I am wanting to commit to finishing one physical professional book. I read a lot more than one book a month, but not. I do it in audio book instead. So this will be, this will be a commitment.
Speaker 1:Well, I am committing to, like Natalie, learning more about the publishing industry. About four years ago I think it's been four years now Stephanie and I took a master class on writing a book and we wrote a book that's called the Roadmap to Comprehensive Literacy and it is literally three, four hundred pages long. So I am committed to learning about how to edit and revise in a way that the book is palatable for building or district leaders and applicable for them to be able to use in their life starting next year able to use in their life starting next year. So our goal is, in the next 75 days, to finish that book so it can be ready for publishing. And then, personally, I am committing to pickleball. It's a big one. We've been playing, but my husband's really good and I don't like being bad. I don't like that being great you and I don't like being bad. I don't like that being great.
Speaker 1:You know, I don't like being the one that brings the team down, so I'm going to take some some like little workshoppy things and and commit to playing once or twice a week for a little bit of time, because I know that with repeated practice and with coaching that I can get better. So that's my commitment. That's what I'm focused on for 2025. Quickly, I just want to say we talked a lot about learning. We talked about our learning journey, we talked about our favorite books. We talked about challenges and overcoming those challenges to being a learner, and then we told you, in complete transparency and vulnerability, what we're committing to for 2025. So I want to just let you know that we are so thankful here at Compass PD that you join us on our podcast. At Compass PD, we believe that every educator has the power to inspire change and transform student learning, and we just want to tell you just to stay focused, stay inspired and keep making a difference. Thank you so much, ladies.
Speaker 3:Thank you, thank you Thanks.