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Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Episode 65: Pt. 2 Supporting Students with Disabilities in Math: NCTM Position Statement Insights
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Are you looking for effective ways to support students with disabilities in math? Join Dr. Natalie Fallert of Compass PD, along with math experts Dr. Sherri Lorton, Constance Hallemeier, and Dr. Stephanie Evans, as they break down the latest NCTM position statement and its collaboration with the Council for Exceptional Children (CEC).
In this video, you'll discover:
-Strategies to ensure students with disabilities access grade-level content and high-quality instruction.
-Ways to bridge gaps between special and general education classrooms.
-Collaborative practices to foster inclusive learning environments.
Whether you're a teacher, instructional coach, or school administrator, this episode is packed with actionable insights to empower all learners and advance inclusive education. Don’t miss these proven tips for math educators!
This is part 2 of a three-part series.
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Math Teachers Council Position Statement Review
Speaker 1Hello and welcome to the Compass PD podcast , where we dive into evidence-based practices and research-driven strategies that empower educators and leaders to make a lasting impact . I am Dr Natalie Fowler , your host , alongside Dr Sherry Lorden , constance Hallemeier and Dr Stephanie Evans . Today , we are exploring the recent NCTM position statement that was released last month , in December of 2024 . Whether you're a teacher , administrator or district leader , our goal is to provide you with insights and tools that help you navigate the complexities of education and inspire student success . In December 2024 , the National Council of Teachers of Mathematics released a position statement regarding the organization's beliefs , recognizing the important role of educators in ensuring students with disabilities have access to grade course level standards and high quality instruction . Today , we have three individuals who collectively have more than 90 years in education , with an emphasis in math , here to talk about this statement , what it means for educators and why it is important , and how teachers can prepare to make a plan to best meet the needs of all of our students .
Speaker 1Today's episode is part two of a three part segment where we will pick up where we left off . We will continue to talk about what districts should do to prepare or ensure that they are in alignment with this new position statement . They are in alignment with this new position statement . Now we kind of are going to go into this second question what should districts do to prepare or ensure that they are in alignment with the National Council of Teacher and Mathematics and the CEC's recommendations and those of practitioners who are doing this work right now ? What are some of the things that they are doing that they're noticing are working well ?
Speaker 1Or even I don't know if you are going to address this if they've tried things and they're like , yeah , this didn't really work , we need to go a different direction . One of the ways we kind of organized this podcast is to kind of look at each one of those declarations and talk about them . So I know the next like kind of bullet is that we build supports for regular collaboration between general education and special education teachers of mathematics , regardless of service delivery models . So I know that , like , what does service delivery models mean ? I guess would be a question that I have that I don't even know if you're going to answer that , but like maybe explaining that a little bit more in layman's terms and then also answering that question .
Speaker 3And so I . It's funny because when I read that I was like , oh , I've never heard of it referred to that way . But in my mind I'm thinking whether the student is direct instruction with a special education teacher , whether they're in what some districts can call an inclusion model , which would be the special education students are in a classroom with like a para or an IA , a paraprofessional or an instructional assistant support or a co-taught class or a class within a class model where there is a regular education teacher and a special education teacher . So those are the ones that I have seen , dr Lorton and Dr Evans . Are there others that you guys have seen somewhere ?
Speaker 2else . Yeah , I think those cover . I mean , those are the kind of the big ones , and then within those there's kind of probably some subcategories , like you know . Within those there's kind of probably some subcategories . Like you know , they spend part of the time in the classroom for the main part of the lesson , but then they may be pulled out for additional support that go along with their goals , that are listed on their IEP . But , yeah , that kind of falls within those categories as well .
Speaker 4I think also the pull-out versus the push-in model . That's an area , especially in elementary , where students or SPED teachers may push into classrooms and work with students in the regular setting rather than pulling students out to pull them into a more smaller group setting . So I think those are the other two that I think of when I think about delivery models .
Speaker 3That district recommendation from NCTM brings me to think about how some of the buildings I've worked with that they work hard at grade level and content area professional learning communities to include a special education teacher to focus on that given content area . To focus on that given content area . So , for example , if we have a special education teacher whose focus is on getting students ready for Algebra 1 , but is doing direct instruction , they would be then part of the PLC for the Algebra 1 group so that they can start to see what things would be needed for their students to move up . They can also contribute ideas for incorporating the universal supports or the universal design for learning into classrooms as well as like what modification suggestions for students for disabilities , with disabilities that they have , because those regular education teachers may not know the best modifications for a student but the special education teacher would have a better insight into them and in buildings where that professional learning community that includes the team of teachers working with special education students .
Speaker 2If that's not yet happening , then administrators can work on scheduling . That's something that seems to begin really now for next year , to ensure that there is adequate time for teachers of special education and the classroom teachers to collaborate together .
Speaker 1They can plan together , they can share strategies , as Constance just mentioned , and that gives them the ability to talk about how specific students that they work with together can , how they learn best and how to grow their students to their optimal potential cognizant for administrators to also keep in mind how thin they're spreading their special ed department , that if you're you're sending them into a science classroom and a social studies classroom and an english classroom and then a math classroom , like that's a lot of content , especially at that secondary level , for them to cover .
Speaker 1And so keeping that in mind and I know that that scheduling is hard and it is the beast and it's like the dirty word of education if you're talking to administrators and so they probably hate us right now or hate me right now but you know , if we really want to do what's best for students , then we should try to make a consorted effort to make sure that , like we've got special educators who are focusing on math or focusing on math and science or you know , so that they have that opportunity to PLC and they're not spread so thin .
Speaker 3I completely agree with that , natalie , because those professional learning communities help to create that collective teacher efficacy Dr Lorton talked about earlier that we can use to help our students . We want to make sure that we're all believing that all of our students can be successful . Because when that we're all believing that all of our students can be successful , because when we start sharing students during that tier two intervention time if your building has that time or even before and after school support time , if we all believe that all of our students can do , then we're helping our students find that success .
Speaker 4Another area that I feel like kind of fits with this in the supports for that regular collaboration is pulling in . And something that I kind of looked at as I was looking at this position statement is what information or recommendations that we have from the what Works Clearinghouse that is , that organization that provides that evidence-based practice that helps us tailor our instructional approaches and intervention programs . And so when we think about our tier two and our tier three intervention programs as we're collaborating together , thinking about how we're providing that systematic instruction during intervention , so I was a little surprised in the statement to not hear that exact language anywhere providing that explicit and systematic instruction , because that is such a huge component of our intervention techniques that we use with students . So I wanted to for sure bring that up . The other piece that the what Works Clearinghouse component is the teaching that clear and concise mathematical language . So as we're collaborating together with our SPED teachers , how are we incorporating that same mathematical language and ensuring that we are using that same language to help them understand and communicate ? And then we already talked about that concrete , semi-concrete representations .
Speaker 4The other piece that's interesting in the what Works Clearinghouse is the number line work and I'm not sure that we're seeing that in both the SPED setting and the regular ed setting of using that number line to help and then that delivered instruction on word problems . And so sometimes when we are isolating based on skill , we tend to move to most of the just the computational aspect and not pulling in some of those word problems or real word things into it so that collaboration and support might work be . A piece of that that we're working on is incorporating those word problems in with our Sved teachers and then the other component is regularly timed activities to work on that , building fluency and mathematics , which in our curriculums now fluency is a more major component . We're seeing that pulled in more often and so collaborating with our Sved teachers on those components as well .
Speaker 1So two things that you know especially Dr Evans just mentioned that resonated with me as an English teacher is we work with a district that has a large population of ESL students , and when you mentioned that having that consistent language is , I think , extremely important for all students . But if you have students who are speaking another language and then you've got math teachers or a special ed teacher and a math teacher , have students who are speaking another language and then you've got math teachers or a special ed teacher and a math teacher both coming in and speaking different languages so or not different languages , but using different words to describe the same thing that could be extremely frustrating and confusing for a student . And so I know that we're really talking about special educators and doing this work , but I think it would also be important to think about your ESL teachers , because these kids are still doing word problems and they're not speaking English , and so what does that look like ? So I think that that is also important to keep in mind , that when we are talking about this , it really does stretch across all of our educators in
Enhancing Inclusive Math Instruction Accessibility
Speaker 1our building .
Speaker 1Another thing that you kind of mentioned was that regularly included , like giving kids practice time , and when I asked you guys to define those delivery modes . In my mind I'm thinking all right , if a kid's moving like I know how hard it is just to transition in a classroom Sometimes you try to get it down about 15 seconds Can you move from here to there ? So if kids are moving out of the classroom and then coming back in , that's time lost practicing , and so that's a whole nother layer to be thinking about . I don't know . So again , like I said , we could go down a rabbit hole of different things , but these are just things that are coming up in my mind as an educator , as a parent , that you know you guys are touching on . I'm like , oh my gosh , if you're moving , that's less time you get to practice , or it's less time you're getting direct instruction or added supports or whatever .
Speaker 3And , natalie , I really , as I read this from a math teacher perspective , I really was thinking , oh , these statements are really for just our math learning disabled students . But as I listened to Dr Evans talk , even Dr Lorton , when we're talking about scheduling and we're talking about these interventions , just making sure that we're thinking about our speech and language students , where that clear and concise math language will help our speech and language students . The word problems deliver instruction on word problems . That's going to help our students who are reading comprehension disabled and so not just the LD math kiddos . These instructional things that we can do to support that , with that regular collaboration is going to help not just our LD math , okay . So moving on to the next bullet these instructional things that we can do to support that , with that regular collaboration is going to help not just our LD math , okay .
Speaker 1So moving on to the next bullet , it's like to ensure funding and resources for high quality instructional materials , including assistive technology , is one of the declarations from NCTM .
Speaker 3NCTM . Yes , so this is under one of the declarations . This is one of the suggestions for the district level to support with helping to bridge these gaps and one of the special education departments that I'm working with . They're working to become part of that curriculum writing process . I've talked about it a couple of times . Within that curriculum writing process they will actually be able to look at the standards .
Speaker 3Some of our special education teachers focus so much on the goals that their students have that sometimes they don't have time to look at those standards . So having a teacher on the curriculum writing process will help them be able to look at those standards the same time that the regular education teachers are looking at the standards , which then will help them create progressions for their students . It'll help them be able to modify the assessments to know where , where some given takes , what are the nice to knows , what are the need to knows , and then helping to select resources so that our special education students again like Dr Evans said , aren't hearing a different language than our regular education students so that they're mirroring that language . If we have similar resources that can help them . Help our special education teachers ensure that all students have access to grade level instruction .
Speaker 2Yeah , for those who provide their own special education teachers within their district , making sure to include district administrators during that process of adapting materials is helpful as well . Some districts have a separate entity that works with them to provide services to students with IEPs and many districts do that in-house . But in cases where it is a separate entity , making sure to include the teachers or the administrators who work specifically in their schools as they go through that adoption process is very important .
Speaker 4And right now , districts can be focusing on ensuring that our programs that we are currently using or are planning to use in the future are accessible for all learners . And so there is a date by which all school districts must adhere to that accessibility , and it's April 2026 for larger school districts and April 2027 for smaller school districts . And so when determining funding and what to purchase , as we're thinking about how to ensure we have that funding and resources for those high quality instructional materials , that piece will need to be considered that it's accessible for all learners , because some of our programs now are not , and before we were able to get away with that , but soon we're going to be held accountable for that .
Speaker 1Dr Evans . So you're kind of saying review what you currently have in place to make sure that it meets these requirements , currently have in place to make sure that it meets these requirements . But I think my second question is is that that deadline that you just stated ? Is that , just like we're all from Missouri , so is that a Missouri thing , or is that a national thing ?
Speaker 4You know what , natalie ? I would have to look into that . You know when you know something and you don't know if you know it just for your area , or so that's a really good question . I would have to look into that . I do know that accessibility , like it is a nationwide issue , I don't know necessarily that those dates are required for all states .
Speaker 1It's good practice anyways to making sure like let's just face it , like if it's not accessible to all of your students , then we need to relook at it and examine it . So when looking at those accessibility things , is there like a protocol or a place that they could go in to see whether or not it meets these standards ?
Speaker 4Well , as we're looking at new curriculum for our districts and districts that we're working with . Many times you have a director of accessibility and you work really closely with them for making sure that the programs we're working with . Many times you have a director of accessibility and you work really closely with them for making sure that the programs we're using are aligned
Collaboration Between Special and Regular Teachers
Speaker 4.
Speaker 1I know that Dr Lorton kind of mentioned this and so I just wanted to touch on it a little bit more . We've worked with districts where there's literally a special education district and it then takes teachers and puts them in other districts , so it's kind of like two districts working together . And I've worked in situations where , as a coordinator , where I've had to manage both that and it is really hard from an administrative standpoint because they have their own funding sources , they have their own rules , they have their own professional development needs and then as a district you're working with these people and you have your own needs and expectations and funding sources , and so that can become very hairy and cumbersome . And I've also worked in districts where you know where said district and we have all of our teachers , all of our special education teachers , are all getting the same paycheck , under the same umbrella and it's nice and neat and tidy . But there are districts that have to work in a different setting and we acknowledge we just want to acknowledge that that can be hard and but that doesn't mean we don't try to collaborate and and figure out how we can work together and they do do that .
Speaker 1But I just wanted to kind of clear . Clarify that , because if you're not familiar with it , you're like what is going on , so do I know ? The next thing is that we provide actionable steps that listeners can implement in their roles . In their roles Like what are some things that you know we could do right now that might help us move forward with this or adhere to it or align to it ?
Speaker 2So if your district doesn't already have this in place screening , regularly , screening and monitoring students , especially those at the elementary level and those that move into the district through their school career . It's important that we screen all students so that we notice those gaps or difficulties as early as possible . If students are identified as struggling in the area of math , then we provide interventions for them and we have to monitor how those interventions are working , what changes need to be made and to understand how specific interventions for a smaller gap are implementing their overall understanding of math , how that's carrying over to them as mathematicians .
Speaker 3So , Dr Lorton , I hear lots of intervention information , which is an MTSS or a multi-tiered system of support piece . That really goes right into one of the things I think would be useful action steps that listeners could do is to help teachers find time to have that professional learning together . So , whether it's on professional development days or in PLCs , but finding that time for them to collaborate so that they do know what interventions might work . The special education teachers probably have a whole different bag of tools in their toolbox for helping with interventions . Another way that I think really and I know I've mentioned it a couple of times but incorporating those special education teachers into that curriculum writing process for the district . As they become part of it , they start to take ownership of the curriculum that they are helping to teach and are preparing their students to teach , and it also gives them time to work on building those progressions .
Speaker 2And I know we've mentioned this a couple of times , but you know making sure that teachers , curriculum specialists or administrators make it a priority to include special education staff in discussions for those resource adoptions , making schedules that provide collaboration time and also making sure to include both of those types of teachers in professional development opportunities .
Speaker 4I'm thinking about how to make this collaboration feel like a natural process . I feel like we need to have those SPED teachers in those regular ed classrooms and so in order for that to happen , that would look like more of that push-in model where the SPED teachers are kind of pushing in working with students rather than pulling them out . I feel like sometimes it becomes so isolated and we're in our different little silos working and then we don't really know what's going on in the other areas , and so that push-in may be something to consider . You know , in a perfect world , ideally , if it could be possible , having at least one SPED teacher per grade level would be ideal .
Speaker 4I think when we're talking about this collaboration , a lot of the problem sometimes is the scheduling , and a SPED teacher can't be at all of these different places and all these different grades at one time , and so they end up not being at any of them . But if we had one SPED teacher per grade level , that's just working . Say , you know , my fifth grade teacher is just working with fifth grade . They'd be at those planning meetings , they'd be at those PLC meetings and they could be a regular part of all of those conversations , and that would be a huge , huge development in that collaboration process . That would really kind of push us a giant step forward in our collaboration .
Speaker 3And I feel like in the secondary level , not per grade level , because , wow , that would be a lot of kids for one SPED teacher , but per content area , like one or two , even depending on the size of your school , for math one or two , for social studies , one or two for science , one or two for I think would be beneficial for the same reasons that Dr Evans mentioned .
Speaker 1Well , and I think that two things that you guys are talking about that I think would help is an actionable piece when you're pushing in . If I am a special ed teacher and I push into a math class , I'm going to see the math teacher teach the content and I'm going to understand it . Because , let's face it , when was the last time I learned math right ? And then I can be like , oh , this was how they did it , this is how they taught it . Now I can go and help and offer some supports . So again , it's kind of like I'm learning at the same time the student's learning . But because I have done this and I do have a more education , I can learn it at a faster rate and all of those things . And then I can apply what strategies are the best for those students to tackle that . So I think that that helps build that content knowledge for that special educator . But then I also think about when you mentioned thinking about Algebra 1 or thinking about a grade level expert One thing that I don't know we've mentioned it yet or not , but I know we talked about it before we got onto this podcast and that was that .
Speaker 1A lot of times , special educators , when they start working with students , they work on goals and their goals might be like , let's say , it's a fifth grade student , their goals might be a first or second grade goal , and so they're missing that fifth grade grade level content . And so if I was only on fifth , working with fifth grade , I feel that as a special educator I would have a better understanding of what the fifth grade expectations were . And then I've got my content , my personal expertise , knowledge of what a first or second grade goal is , and then I know I've got to bridge that gap . Am I wrong in thinking that that could help ?
Speaker 3with that piece , absolutely . I think that is a great way to explain what we're trying to say .
Speaker 1Yes , this is why the English person is like posting it , because I'm like explain this in better , better terms . But like you guys have all these math words going on , I'm like , ah , I don't know what that means .
Speaker 3I know that when I co-taught which was lots of years , I loved co-teaching I had five or six different co-teachers during my time teaching Each one we had like a different method for co-teaching , but in all of them they were . Many of the students had no idea who was the special education teacher and who was the content teacher , and they would look to both of us to get help on any of the things . Look to both of us to get help on any of the things , and I learned as much from my co-teacher in how to work with students with disabilities as I feel like she learned about how to teach math . And so I do think that it's a give and take , Like it's not a one-way street when we're talking about pushing in services .
Speaker 1I will say it is beautiful when you walk into a Kotak classroom and you can't tell who's the content expert or who's the special educator . But in that , in saying that , I will say that that comes with confidence and competence , because if I'm , if you've thrown me into a math class and I've never had to do this before , I'm not going to feel competent or confident in interjecting , and so that kind of goes back into that professional learning piece . That is extremely important . But it is beautiful when you see that happen or you get to experience or you're a part of it .
Speaker 3It is amazing what happens in a classroom and it took more than one year for that to happen . But when it did , it was amazing for me , amazing for her , amazing for the kids , like , more importantly , amazing for the kids .
Speaker 4There's so many different models of how that co-teaching could work . You know there's parallel teaching , there's coaching in there . You know there's different ways that it could work . And so I think when we're also talking about professional development , some of that you know it's not just throwing two teachers together and saying , hey , you guys are co-teaching . There's a lot of prep work and a lot of planning and discussion and collaboration . That happens before that piece would even begin .
Inclusive Math Instruction Challenges and Solutions
Speaker 1So I want to thank each one of you guys for coming today and enlightening me on this topic of the National Council of Teachers Mathematics and the CEC's recommendation , or their proposition statement , on including all learners so that everyone has access to grade level content in every subject area , but specifically in math . Don't forget to join us for our third and final segment regarding this topic , where we will discuss the challenges and solutions that district leaders will face , as well as instructional coaches and teachers , and some possible ways to help them overcome or prepare for them . I hope that these insights help you navigate your educational journey more clearly and confidently . Help them overcome or prepare for them . I hope that these insights help you navigate your educational journey more clearly and confidently . Please feel free to share your thoughts or experiences . We'd love to hear from you and if you found today's episode valuable , consider sharing it with a colleague who might benefit from this message .