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Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Compass PD Podcast with Dr. Carrie Hepburn
Episode 73: Difficult Conversations in Leadership: Strategies for District and School Leaders
No one likes difficult conversations, but effective leaders can’t avoid them. Whether addressing student performance, parent concerns, or staff accountability, the way you handle tough discussions can either build trust or break morale.
In this episode of the Compass PD Podcast, Dr. Stephanie Brenner sits down with Dr. Chris Greiner, Chief Executive Academic Officer for Raytown Quality Schools, to explore:
✅ How to start tough conversations & keep them productive
✅ Balancing accountability & empathy to foster trust
✅ Common pitfalls leaders face & how to avoid them
✅ Tactful communication strategies to de-escalate defensiveness
✅ Go-to frameworks & scripts for handling conflict effectively
Leading isn’t about avoiding hard conversations but learning how to navigate them with confidence, clarity, and respect. If you're a school leader, instructional coach, or administrator, this episode is packed with practical tools you can use today.
Hello and welcome to the Compass PD podcast, where we dive into evidence-based practices and research-driven strategies that empower educators and leaders to make a lasting impact. I'm Dr Stephanie Brenner, your host, alongside Dr Chris Greiner. Hi, chris.
Speaker 2:Hey, stephanie, good morning.
Speaker 1:Good morning. Dr Greiner is currently the Chief Executive Academic Officer for Raytown Quality Schools in suburban Kansas City. Today we are tackling a topic all leaders encounter at some point, but most dread, regardless of the number of times it occurs engaging in difficult conversations. As a leader, dr Greiner has held a variety of positions within school systems, giving him a wide range of experience in this topic. Personally, I have always admired his ability to balance listening, asking questions, being really clear with expectations, holding people accountable while moving forward, and treating the people around him with dignity and empathy. Dignity and empathy, which is why I asked him to be here with us today to share his insight on effectively engaging in difficult conversations.
Speaker 1:Today we're really wanting to dive into the topic of difficult conversations because we know many leaders feel anxious about confrontation and what strategies to handle difficult conversations professionally and effectively. They want to know how to ensure the person on the receiving end actually listens, they reflect and take action, but that there isn't damage to trust or, eventually, your staff morale. So today's purpose we're going to be answering the questions how can leaders start difficult conversations and keep them productive? Why and how are difficult conversations important for growth, learning and long-term improvement within a school system, and we're also going to provide tips and tools for de-escalating frustration, defensiveness or pushback that may occur during a difficult conversation. Let's get started. So, chris, how would you define difficult conversation?
Speaker 2:Stephanie. For me, a difficult conversation includes strong emotions, high stakes and when we have differences of opinion. There's some good research out there. None of it is mine, but, as a good educator, to beg, borrow and steal from others. Kerry Patterson and his team put out a really good book called Crucial Conversations and they framed difficult conversations as holding someone accountable face-to-face.
Speaker 1:Oh, I really like that. That's nice because I think that in our society today, right now, it's easy to have non-face-to-face conversations that can lead to unintended discussions or feelings or outcomes. Why do you think so many school leaders and instructional coaches struggle with having difficult conversations?
Speaker 2:Well, first, I just think it comes with the human nature of not wanting to be in conflict. Most of us tend to want to keep the equilibrium in our relationships. When we see people that are not meeting expectations or we know, as a leader, we have to manage or lead change, that creates some cognitive dissonance for us as well as those around us, between the tasks that we are charged with as a leader and the relationships that we nurture for those around us that we lead. So when we talk about task, we're talking specifically about the ability to be clear, to be outcomes focused, to have predictable processes that people can understand. Also expectations that are clear and protocols that you use to solve problems.
Speaker 2:People appreciate that there is a predictable way in which you tackle issues, but certainly that counteracts sometimes the relationships we have with people. So the appreciation and respect that you need to show for others, a willingness to collaborate, the willingness to want to co-author or co-own solutions, and then just the ability to understand and appreciate multiple perspectives. So that balance sometimes gets out of whack because the task may be clear to you but in asking for people to make change or to do things differently, it could potentially damage the relationship Again, because emotions can run high, stakes are significant and perspectives may differ are significant and perspectives may differ.
Speaker 1:I think something that you said that really stood out to me there is that it's predictable and there are protocols and when your leader has, you almost can anticipate what they're going to say, how they're going to react in situations. That feels good as somebody who's being led to know that this is just how they're going to respond or they're going to have a process for this. It makes entering something easier and non-personal too. I believe In your experience. What are some of the most common types of difficult conversations in schools and like to one more step to that. Why do you think they matter?
Speaker 2:For me as a leader, a building leader, a district leader, typically the most difficult conversations I have are around the change process for adults. Whenever organizations are charged with doing better, with making continuous improvement, of course that's going to result in us thinking about changing the way we do business. And again, most adults avoid conflict and they're very comfortable in their current patterns of their professional life and their personal life. So when we talk about issues around student performance, student behavior, parent concerns, peer conflict, adult peer conflict, adult performance, so employee performance and feedback, concerns around employee workloads and perceptions of value, changes in district policy All of those topics create an opportunity for change and that at times creates difficult conversations because we're asking people to think differently about their work and for many and when you're in a leadership position, at times you are the one in the position of leading the change. The change topic may not be something that was necessarily your idea, but you've been tasked to manage and lead that change, and so I would say an either. Another layer of complexity to this is when you're leading change. That isn't necessarily something that you've developed and have maybe the greatest passion for, but as a leader in a school district, that's part of your job. So the idea of grudging obedience versus willful consideration I'll use that term repeatedly in our discussion today.
Speaker 2:How do you move adults to change their behavior? Typically it starts with their grudging obedience behavior. Typically it starts with their grudging obedience. You're asking them to change their behavior. You're trying to explain a compelling why. You're trying to provide research evidence around why we would consider a change in behavior. You're providing the professional learning. You're giving them the space to practice, but ultimately you want to move them from that grudging obedience to their willful consideration, where they see the value in the work, they understand the why and they are emboldened to use their talents to ultimately reach the goal that you've established. But there's change needed to get there.
Speaker 1:I love what you said and I love that you're going to use this phrase, because I really took a bunch of notes just now about that the grudging obedience versus willful consideration. Where you said it's the they're emboldened, so they eventually get to the place where they're emboldened to do more with what you have provided them that maybe they didn't like before. But I think we can embolden educators and leaders.
Speaker 2:We're really setting ourselves up to go in a good direction. Yeah, there's a. There's a balance you strike, as a leader, between support and accountability. I'll call out a couple of authors along the way as well. Our team read a book called the Time for Change. Anthony Muhammad and Dr Cruz from Solution Tree put out a book in 2019, and they really outlined for leaders how to strike that balance between support and accountability as it relates to communication and trust and capacity building. Those are intentional leadership actions that have to take place, but it is a balance that you strike between support and accountability.
Speaker 1:I kind of feel like all parts of leadership are a balance of some sort. You're balancing something with something trying to be helpful versus holding people accountable, or building capacity, or trying to help people to want to take action on their own versus like forcing them to do something. There always seems to be a balance in leadership. How do you think administrators, leaders and coaches can prepare themselves before they have to have a tough conversation?
Speaker 2:Well, thinking about the why is really the first step. So how are we communicating the rationale around that conversation? So, for example, if we are considering a change in the way we deliver tier one instruction, we're looking at new and innovative ways of planning and implementing instructional supports for students that all students get. You really want to begin with the rationale, the why, and use data to frame the conversation. You mentioned earlier about trying not to make this a personal attack, and a lot of times when you have tough conversations with people and you're asking them to change their behavior or you're asking them to think differently about the way they do work, they are personally attached to their methods and so it can feel personal. So, however, you can utilize empirical evidence to help explain the why is important, and you're also leaning into the relationship you've established with that person, so the influence that you have with them as a leader. Hopefully you have their trust and respect. You're not interested necessarily in how much they like you, but you really are interested in understanding the level of influence that you may have.
Speaker 2:But communicating the why is the first step to prepare yourself for having that tough conversation. I think next is, again being intentional to establish trust. So being an empathetic listener is really important. Giving them the space to explain to you why they may feel or disagree is important, and so I would say, if you're going to have that tough conversation, give yourself the time to be with them and have the capacity, have the bandwidth to sit and talk with them and to not feel like a one-way conversation. That way, you can be an active listener and can really understand why they may feel differently than you about the change, about the issue that you're discussing with them. Hopefully also, you've got some credibility, so you've got their trust.
Speaker 2:Maybe you've experienced the change process with this person before, or you can reference hey, remember when we tackled this issue previously and we had these concerns and here's how we worked through it. Here was the process, the protocol. Yes, I understand why you would feel uneasy or maybe have some disagreement. Here's how, through this process, we're going to ensure that your voice is at the table, that you have agency process. We're going to ensure that your voice is at the table, that you have agency and that you can influence the outcome.
Speaker 2:There may also be a need to understand how you're planning to build capacity with this person. So what is? How? Will you again create a collective problem-solving climate? But also, you are prepared to share with them how you're going to help build their capacity. So it might be additional training, it might be the opportunity to shadow, it might be. There are just a number of different ways in which you want to help them better understand the expectations and here's how you're going to intentionally build their capacity moving forward.
Speaker 2:And then, finally, the tough conversation. You have to have a clear understanding of what are the results that you hope to gain by asking this person to change their behavior, or you're going to provide them feedback on something you've seen and you want there to be a different way, moving forward, for them to behave. So you've got to clearly understand and articulate what are the results that we hope to gain from this conversation moving forward. How will you monitor moving forward, their progress? So the why, the who, the how, but ultimately, what are the results that you hope to gain moving forward, are really important to be clear with the person you're having the conversation with what are the results that we hope to gain based on the conversation we're having, the conversation with. What are the results that we hope to gain based on the conversation we're having?
Speaker 1:What you were just talking about reminds me of Brene Brown, and she talks about how being honest and clear is being kind to people. I need to have trust with you, but I'm also going to tell you the truth about what I need from you, and I'm going to be prepared this is something that I think stood out to me, too, as a leader being prepared with how I'm going to support you through this process, what I'm going to do, or we are going to do, to help you get from where you are to where we want you to be. So I'm going to provide supports and you're going to tell them. You're ready to tell them how that's going to look, instead of oh, we'll tell you later, let me.
Speaker 1:Or. We have this big plan that we're rolling out for curriculum change, but we don't have any idea of how we're going to train you on this new curriculum change yet, and that would cause more chaos than if you were to go in and be able to say we have this plan for you, and then the clearness on moving forward I think is such a powerful and important thing is that everyone knows, when this conversation ends, what your role and job is going to be, what it's going to look like moving forward. Role and job is going to be what it's going to look like moving forward. So when you're having difficult conversations, do you have any go-to frameworks or scripts or books or something that help you structure conversations?
Speaker 2:So something recently that I've leaned into again from the book Time for Change, anthony Muhammad and Luis Cruz. They talk about something called a resist protocol and it's very pragmatic. It isn't different from other types of protocols that a leader may consider, but for me this is something that recently I've seen that's been really helpful. And resist is an acronym, the R is recognize. So at the very beginning, when you're thinking about the confrontation, the tactical confrontation that you need to have, the tough conversation that you need to have with someone or a group of people, the tough conversation that you need to have with someone or a group of people, the R is recognize that if you do nothing, you're accepting counterproductive behaviors. So, essentially, whatever you ignore, you're endorsing and as a leader, that's tough because you have to pick and choose. What are the conversations that I need to have around change or extinguishing behaviors that I'm seeing? That can't continue to happen. If you choose to ignore that, as a leader, you're endorsing it, you're okay with it and others are watching. And I think, as a leader, one of the things that people appreciate is that when you confront, of course you're doing it privately, you're doing it tactfully, you're not doing it to embarrass, but you are having to have that conversation and you recognize, as a leader, that that's part of what you sign up for, is being uncomfortable and calling out, recognizing that there is the need sometimes to call out behaviors that are outside of expectations. So, after you recognize that you need to evaluate the E in resist, evaluate whether or not the person or persons you need to talk with have had the sufficient support they need to be successful. The expectations that they may not be meeting could be a result of simply them not having the information or training necessary to conduct whatever meet, whatever expectation it is that they're violating. So you need to understand and come ready to share how you, as the leader, are prepared to support them moving forward.
Speaker 2:The S in resist is select, being intentional around the location, be a tone of respect and professionalism. Certainly volume the words you choose. You yourself, as a leader, need to be in a good space to have that tactful confrontation. So if what has happened that's created the discord, you may have an emotional reaction to that, and so it's never good to respond when you yourself have perhaps some emotion behind the concerns. It's always good, maybe, to let it diffuse a bit. Come back to it.
Speaker 2:I've found scheduling the time gives me a chance to first of all, clearly articulate what it is that we need to talk about, create a safe space, again privately, and it also gives both parties or groups a chance to think about what they want to talk about and also diffuse some of the emotion that may exist. The I in resist would be how we initiate the tactful confrontation, how we ask questions. So, for example, todd Whitaker has been a leader in the education space for a long time. He wrote a great book about the things that principals do differently when dealing with difficult conversations. I've heard him use this a lot, and so you frame the conversation around.
Speaker 2:When I saw you do this, I was disappointed because and I wanted to share that with you because if I were you, I'd want to know so if you're having someone that's not meeting expectations, you want them to understand that you yourself have seen it You're disappointed for the reason you would clearly articulate to them and I'm telling you this because if I were you, I'd want to know that and so that's a very respectful way to maybe explain why someone not meeting expectations is troubling to you. Again, hopefully you've got that relationship. There's trust there, there's respect and when, as a person, if you're not meeting someone else's expectations and they can frame it in a way that lets them know, maybe in some way, that you've let them down a bit. And if I were you, I would have done it. You know, I would want to know and I would have done something differently. So I think that initiating the confrontation tactfully and really focusing on what is the behavior that you have observed personally, personalizing that, I think is really important, if at all possible.
Speaker 1:I think that that phrase also helps keep some dignity, because it's about like you're assuming the person has good intent, right, but you're saying if it were me, I would want to know. So you're, you're treating that person with respect by bringing it to their attention. I think that that that's really powerful and I'm stealing it. So thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then the second S of the resist protocol would be just selecting next steps. So you're initiating the tactical confrontation, but you have to understand also where is it that you want this conversation to move productively? What's next? If someone is outside of expectations or the conversation you're having is related to a person's skill level, then you need to be prepared to have a conversation with them to help them improve their skills. So how is it that you're going to support them, whether it's providing something from outside the organization, or is it more time with you as the leader? Whatever it is, have some ideas ready to proceed with improving their skills.
Speaker 2:If it's a will situation people just simply don't want to do the work or make the change then I think that's a different conversation you need to be prepared to have, and that may include being prepared to take some job action.
Speaker 2:That could be a formal reprimand or professional improvement plan. But again, being very clear about I hear you saying this, or I've seen you behave in this way. You're telling me that you have no interest in making a change to that behavior, and so, as your supervisor or as a leader, here's what I am prepared to do to address that. Of course that's not ideal and we never want to get into those conversations, but unfortunately there are times as a leader that there are certainly those instances of. They're not moving forward despite the evidence, despite the written board policy, despite whatever it is that you're bringing to them that's created the discord. If they're unwilling to move forward and make the necessary changes, you have to be ready to help them understand what your next steps are going to be. And then, finally T, you need to tell them, you need to tell them how and why you plan to monitor their work moving forward so that the desired behaviors can occur.
Speaker 1:So resist protocol, recognize, evaluate, select, initiate, select again next steps and then tell I love that, and I think something that sticks out to me about this protocol, though, is that a lot of it is pre-work, because it's not like, until you get to the, I initiate all the other stuff is you, as the leader or person, preparing for the conversation, which I have found in my own experience to be very, very critical and having a productive conversation, so I think that that's really neat that there's so much prep to it and intentional preparedness.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the wisdom of leadership is that over the years you develop the scar tissue to know these conversations can be tough but, in many ways they're predictable.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And as you prepare to have that tactful confrontation, you can anticipate the human nature of folks, how they would perhaps respond. But having a plan and being prepared, taking the emotion out of the conversation by maybe giving it a little distance between when you know you need to have the conversation, the event that's occurred or whatever it is that's created the situation where that crucial confrontation has to take place, the more you can plan ahead, the better you'll be prepared to have a productive dialogue with whoever you're talking to.
Speaker 1:I agree, and one of the things that you said, too, that I have tried, and because I found it to be really important, part of it is the when this first s, when you said select and so scheduling the time so that each person knows that we're going to have this type of conversation, so that the person comes in in a good frame of mind and prepared, they're not taken off guard by what the conversation is going to be about, and can help facilitate a better conversation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no surprises the thing as a leader. If you're vague or the person feels like they're being ambushed, that does not set up for a productive conversation. So to be as transparent as you can around the why behind the conversation you don't have to necessarily provide all the details, but giving them a clear understanding of why you're meeting and I think that just sets it up to be a much more respectful, productive discussion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree. So what have you found to be the best way to respond when a conversation becomes emotional or defensive?
Speaker 2:Well, again, I think leading with the data is really important and coming back to it. So, whether it is what you witnessed or the evidence that you've gathered, I think is a key way of taking some emotion out of how you're responding. Now, when someone, when some not if, but when someone becomes emotional, I think there are some things you can do. Number one is really focus on you know. How can we reach a compromise, how can we get to consensus here, how can we get a win for the other person and for you as the leader or the organization? I think also recognizing that it's a difficult conversation and telling them I know this is tough, I know it might be hard to hear, but I really appreciate the way you're being honest with me about how you feel. So I think recognizing, validating their emotions in a way can be helpful and also just telling them. My intention is not to offend you. If you are upset, forgive me, I'm not. That's not my intent.
Speaker 2:However, we need to get resolution here. We need to understand what is the plan to get to a better place. Sometimes you might just offer them a break. Hey, do you need a minute? I typically have Kleenex water. I may say do you want to step out? Would you like for me to step out? There are times when maybe we're having a conversation with a teacher and they have an advocate in the room with them them. Maybe it's an opportunity for them to regroup a bit and have some conversation before we return. So I do think there are some tactful ways to recognize the emotion in the moment, validate it, but also be prepared to move forward and let them know hey, we're going to take a break, but when we come back we're going to continue and this is what we need to accomplish.
Speaker 1:Take a break, but when we come back, we're going to continue, and this is what we need to accomplish. It's like you're setting the stage of it's okay for you to have these feelings, but we're still going to have a discussion about what we're going to do about it. The because you have the feelings doesn't mean that you're going to get out of being able to move forward or the actions that I have planned for us to take moving forward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I would say, in some of the most extreme instances you might want to just pause the meeting and say you know, it's clear that we're not being productive right now, so let's reschedule. Tell me when is a good time for us to come back to this, because right now we're not able to, you know, move forward amicably, help me understand or help me figure out what when we might come back together and then it just gives them a little bit more time to get in a better place to have a tough conversation.
Speaker 1:So, chris, how can leaders balance holding people accountable while also showing empathy? We talked a little bit earlier about how lots of things with leadership are just balance, and I think that this is a hard one for a lot of leaders.
Speaker 2:Well, hopefully you have a track record of support and people understand that. Yes, expectations are high and they're clear, but as a leader, first and foremost you're there to support them. You want to see them improve. It's not a way in which we're trying to move people out of a job. We're simply there to help people get better.
Speaker 1:And none of us are perfect.
Speaker 2:All of us can get better. So hopefully you have a track record of support. You also have a track record of vulnerability to say, hey, here's when I've struggled recently, here's something I'm struggling with right now and I know it can be tough. Here's how I want to support you. So really stimulate commitment to making changes, using evidence that really helps take the emotion out of some of the unwillingness to change.
Speaker 2:The ability to listen without rebuttal. As a leader, one of the worst things you can do in having that tactful confrontation is having the other person feel like they're not being heard. So you're listening, you're not interrupting. This isn't a time for you to have the last word for every exchange. So you can validate their feelings by simply just listening. Certainly a willingness to collaborate. So moving forward, how are we going to solve this problem together? Really empowering them and giving that person voice and choice around what's next, able to clearly articulate a clear vision up front.
Speaker 2:The conversation around the change necessary doesn't feel like as much of an ambush or they're not coming in flat-footed because they understand clearly this is where we're going as an organization, as a team, and so having a collective, having that clear, collective vision, I think really helps people understand. Well, this is work I know we're engaging in. These are things I know that we've got to do differently, so this conversation isn't outside of those expectations. I also feel like we can't assume that people have the skills they need to make the necessary changes. They need to make the necessary changes. So don't assume that, when you're expecting someone to make a change or behave differently, that they have what they need. They have the capacity. So be prepared to talk with them about how you can help improve their skills and how you can provide additional support.
Speaker 1:I'm wondering what advice would you give to a school leader or an instructional coach who is avoiding having a difficult conversation right now, because I feel like we all probably have at least one that we're avoiding, but we know we have to have. So what advice would you give?
Speaker 2:Well for me, when I'm in that space and I'm struggling and it happens a lot is having others that you can reach out to as a thought partner. I think having some trusted colleagues that you yourself can collaborate with, whether it's your supervisor or a mentor. For me, a lot of times it's, you know, your supervisor or a mentor.
Speaker 2:For me a lot of times it's even having conversations with my wife, someone that you trust, someone that is not going to be, someone that's not going to be judgmental in the moment, but is going to listen and give you some sound counsel based on their experiences. So there are those, hopefully, in your life that you trust and can go to to ask. That would be. My advice is don't be afraid to phone a friend. A lot of times, the tough conversations we have to have as leaders aren't conversations that we have to have in the moment. There's some time that can exist between when you recognize the need is there and when you actually have the conversation. So use that to your advantage. Don't feel like you're alone and seek wise counsel from those that you trust from those that you trust.
Speaker 1:I sometimes find it like the thought partner person. It's nice to just even practice what I'm going to say. Yeah, the person like I'm thinking about going about it this way. What do you think? Or how should I say this instead, so it comes across as I intended to come across, and sometimes just practicing what I'm going to say in my head or saying it out loud just helps me be a little bit more prepared in that moment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great idea, Stephanie, also too, I think having it in writing oh yeah. So, as you have the conversation, you've identified some key talking points and you've got it in front of you is really important to have something in writing so that if and when the conversation maybe starts to go a bit sideways, you have a plan and you can bring the conversation back to where it needs to be. But yeah, I think that's a great idea is practicing having something in writing, being intentional, being prepared. Those are all good tips to ensuring that those difficult conversations are productive.
Speaker 1:So I'm going to ask you if you have any books or tools or professional learning opportunities that you recommend. But I want to say something because I'm going to forget if I don't say it. So when you were doing some of the talking a few minutes ago and you were talking about the clear vision, and if you don't have a really clear vision, then it's hard for everyone to understand where we're going and why we're doing the things we're doing, and it reminded me of Ambrose's complex change chart, that talk that's like skills, vision, resources, a plan and something else so that we because if one part of those things is missing, then you can predict the feelings and emotions and behaviors or actions of the people that you're leading. And so that just jumped out in my mind, because it's a wonderful resource for leaders to consider that Ambrose Complex Change chart chart. Okay, so, like I said, do you have any books or tools or professional learning opportunities that you really suggest?
Speaker 2:for leaders. I have a few titles that I've leaned into over the years. I mentioned earlier what Great Principles Do Differently. Todd Whitaker, as a young administrator dealing with a lot of this adversity or confrontation early on, His books did a great job of helping me diffuse tough situations but also maintain dignity and respect and build trust. So he's somebody that I would recognize as a good thought leader in that, in that area of tactical confrontation. Michael Fulins, leading in a culture of change is a great title. That was something that I accessed through graduate coursework multiple times. He's a fantastic, again thought leader in the education space.
Speaker 2:Some other titles Crucial Confrontations I mentioned earlier. Yeah, Carrie Patterson there's been several iterations of that book, but really strong. A Time for Change, Anthony Muhammad and Louise Cruz from Solution Tree and then finally, the Four Disciplines of Execution execution for educators. One of the ways leaders get themselves hung up is when they don us move our organization forward and create predictable patterns that people understand they're accountable for. Right a leader, you have to have the systems in place to build the kind of climate that is very predictable and that people understand what expectations exist, and so that 40X model is really, really good. I would recommend that to any leader.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is a wonderful book. I learned a lot and it actually reminds me of one of my other favorite books that I have to look on my shelf back here because I never the Fifth Discipline by Peter Senge, I think.
Speaker 1:I'm saying his name right. That's another book that I feel like is kind of like the fourth discipline, where it's very systems-based and thinking about all the integral parts that you need to get in line to move your organization forward. So we have learned so much from you today and I've taken probably no joke about seven pages of notes, dr Greiner, so thank you so much. Some of the things that really stick out for me today are you seem to have like a process or a system, a predictable way of doing almost everything, and that really helps you and it also helps the people that you're leading, because it keeps the conversations and actions moving forward. We all know what to expect.
Speaker 1:Something else that stood out for me today that you talked a lot about is being very clear, so having very clear expectations, setting a clear why, making sure people understand clearly what you want from them in the future and what you're going to do to help them in the future.
Speaker 1:And I think that's another thing that stood out to me was the like you, your phrase was support first, then accountability.
Speaker 1:Your phrase was support first, then accountability, so making sure that you have provided the people all of the support they need before you're really kind of like putting the hammer down type of thing.
Speaker 1:So that initial conversation is to ensure that you've given them the support they need in order to move forward. And I think, finally, the thing that stood out to me is time, and I say time because you, as the leader, have to do a lot of preparation in order to have difficult or crucial conversations and then, within the conversation itself, having enough time set aside for the conversation so that you can honor them, you can listen to their feelings, you can give them the space they need and you aren't rushed in your listening of them, so that they don't feel rushed and something's not done to them. They feel like an equal partner. It seems like that's an important part of having those difficult conversations. Everything you said today just seems very practical and easy. I love a steps and series of things and you gave us lots of them, so I really really appreciate all of your expertise today, dr Greiner.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you, dr Brenner. It's a pleasure to visit with you today. I miss our opportunities to connect more frequently, but yeah, thank you for the opportunity to join you today and wish you and Compass PD nothing but the best moving forward.
Speaker 1:Thank you, I appreciate that. So, like I said, we have covered so much today. I hope all of the insights Dr Greiner has provided will help you navigate your educational journey more clearly and confidently. Next week, we'll be exploring all things summer school with Dr Sherry Lorton, and I promise that she is your go-to person on establishing summer school within your school system. Talking with Dr Lorton about summer school, you'll talk about all things, from necessary systems that need to be in place to having a positive impact on the students that will be participating in your summer school. So please be sure to tune in.