A Thorn in the Flesh (Seventh Sunday after Pentecost)

Awet Andemicael and Greg Sterling discuss strength, grace, and theories of power in 2 Corinthians 12:2-10. The text is appointed for the Seventh Sunday after Pentecost, in year B of the Revised Common Lectionary.

More Yale Bible Study resources, including a transcript of this episode, at: https://YaleBibleStudy.org/podcast

Awet Andemicael is Associate Dean of Marquand Chapel at Yale Divinity School. Gregory Sterling is the Reverend Henry L. Slack Dean and Lillian Claus Professor of New Testament at Yale Divinity School.

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Transcript

Voiceover Voice:

Even ordinary people can have access to God. Even those of us who have failings, we can also have access to mysteries that are beyond human understanding.

Helena Martin:

This is Chapter, Verse, and Season: a lectionary podcast from Yale Bible Study. Join us each week as two Yale Divinity School professors look at an upcoming text from the Revised Common Lectionary.

This episode, we have Awet Andemicael, Associate Dean for Marquand Chapel and Assistant Professor Adjunct of Theology, and Gregory Sterling, the Reverend Henry L. Slack Dean and Lillian Claus Professor of New Testament. They’re discussing 2 Corinthians 12:2-10, which is appointed for the Seventh Sunday after Pentecost, Proper 9, in Year B. Here’s the text.

[2 Corinthians 12:2-10]

I know a person in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows. And I know that such a person—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know; God knows— was caught up into paradise and heard things that are not to be told, that no mortal is permitted to repeat. On behalf of such a one I will boast, but on my own behalf I will not boast, except of my weaknesses. But if I wish to boast, I will not be a fool, for I will be speaking the truth. But I refrain from it, so that no one may think better of me than what is seen in me or heard from me, even considering the exceptional character of the revelations. Therefore, to keep me from being too elated, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me, to keep me from being too elated. Three times I appealed to the Lord about this, that it would leave me, but he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for power is made perfect in weakness.” So I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me. Therefore I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities for the sake of Christ, for whenever I am weak, then I am strong.

Awet Andemicael:

 I don't get to talk to you in your capacity as a New Testament scholar that much and I know you've taught this text in class. What are some of the highlights that you tend to focus on when you're teaching this text? 

Gregory Sterling: 

I love this text. It follows right on the heels of one of the hardship lists in 2 Corinthians, and we sometimes call this text the fool's speech because Paul repeatedly says, “I'm out of my mind”, or “I'm speaking like a fool” in this text. And the thing that I find so fascinating about this particular text is that it juxtaposes a heavenly experience with the thorn in the flesh. So, he breaks from the hardship list and then goes to this experience he has, but he says, “I don't know exactly how this happened. I don't know what I saw, and I can't tell you what I heard.” So, he can't tell us anything about it, just that he had it. And then he's just back more to a hardship list type by referring to this thorn in the flesh that God gave him. And people say, well, what's that? And there are different views. Sometimes, some people said, well, maybe it's when he says “flesh”, maybe that means he struggles with his sexual appetite. Or maybe it means he has a physical or mental illness. Or maybe it's about persecution. And the truth is, we don't know because he doesn't tell us.

I remember reading Sir William Ramsey, who lived a long time ago, but this is one of the best guesses. He said he thought Paul had malaria and it affected his eyesight because in Galatians he says, “see with what large letters I'm writing.” So that at times it would affect his eyesight. Who knows? We don't know. But I think what's really interesting about the text is that Paul is comparing himself to his rival apostles, they're mentioned in the previous chapter. And unlike them, who give these kinds of experiences as their credentials, Paul is saying that these credentials only show his weakness, and he chooses things that show his weakness. And that allows him to emphasize the power of God. And so, it's his way of saying this. I think of how different that is from the way we think and the way that ancient Stoics think. And when I think about it, I remember the poem of William Ernest Henley, which became the title of a major motion picture, Invictus, about the South African rugby team. But we all remember the last part of this poem, “It matters not how strait the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.” That's what a Stoic would say and that's exactly what Paul will not say. And so, he contrasts his view with his rival apostles.

So, my question back to you, Awet, you're a theologian. All right, in the proper sense. [laughs] Unlike those of us who are pretend theologians. So how do you think of this juxtaposition of the weakness of the human flesh or mortality and the experience of God's grace within it?

Awet Andemicael:

Yeah, that's a very good question. There are two main themes or main ways that I think about this juxtaposition. One is the reminder that there are actual human beings who get access to this deep mystery of who God is. So, when God allows us, when God reveals God's self to us, whether it's in this very mysterious way that Paul describes with this vision of the third heaven, or sometimes in more mundane ways that we tend to experience regularly. This is something beyond what would normally be possible for a creature. For us to have insight into the depths, the mysteries of God. But in receiving that vision, receiving that access, we still remain human, we're still creatures, we still have our failings. It's not like we have to become superhuman creatures in order to gain that access. And that's possible because it's God who is the source of that. It's not that we gain some new power or some new, we gain a new capacity, but we don't become more than human in order to access God, who is more than human, more than creaturely.

So that reminds us that it's kind of comforting for those of us who aren't these great champions of the faith and aren't superhuman figures, even in human sort of conventional social understandings. Even ordinary people can have access to God. Even those of us who have failings, who have frailties, who are weak. We can also have access to mysteries that are beyond human understanding, which we would typically expect would be only for the very well educated or the very elite or the very whatevers. That all of us have access to that because of the depths and the generosity of the grace of God. So that's one thing that is comforting.

On the other side, maybe more of a properly theological way of thinking about this, part of what it says to me is that the power that Paul is talking about is a completely different kind of power from what we're used to talking about. So, as you said, in Stoic philosophy, certainly in the Roman Empire more broadly and at this time, power was connected to a certain kind of manly virtue and military strength and physical strength. And to some extent, that's certainly the way we think about it today. We might add social status and political maneuvering, all these other ways of thinking about power. That's how we get things done, right? And that's how you can, that's the kind of power most of us aspire to. Even if the ends that we're trying to achieve are good ends, the way we get to it is through this conventional, creaturely kind of power. But the kind of power that's made perfect in weakness. We can't be talking about the same kind of power. It's a completely different paradigm of power. But what opens up that possibility is the grace of God. So, the fact that Paul talks about, says that my grace, God says God's grace is sufficient for Paul, because power is made perfect in weakness. So, that grace is not just a capacity to be able to navigate and live with and work his way around this thorn in the flesh. But it's also a kind of grace that creates just a new way of thinking, a new, new possibility for being human and for exercising power and receiving power. So, that it is the kind of power that does get perfected in human weakness, that does get perfected and finding its fulfillment in our frailties because its source and its goal are the power of God and the reality of God. And this kind of new gracious economy where power functions completely differently and where God can bring about extraordinary things through people who are the least of these. Are the lowest. The people who are the most disempowered can be the ones who make the biggest impact on the world.

Gregory Sterling:

I keep thinking about an ancient story that is just an early Christian legend that when Jesus got up into heaven he was met by an angel and the angel said, “Well, did everything go well on earth?” And he said, “Well, yes. It went according to plan.” And he said, “Well, how are you going to accomplish your mission that you started out?” “Well, I entrusted it to a group of human beings.” And the angel said, “What? [laughs] To a group of human beings. How are they going to do it?” And I think sometimes we have to realize that we don't depend on ourselves, we really do depend upon God. And I feel that way as Dean, I will just say that in a very candid way. That, that's the only way I can sleep at night. 

Awet Andemicael:

Mmm. You know one thing that strikes me as odd but interesting about this passage, I wanted to ask you about it, so Paul says that God said, “strength is made perfect in weakness”, not strength is made perfect despite weakness. So that seems really significant. What does that mean exactly? Because you could understand if you said that my power is made perfect despite your weakness. I can still, is there a way in which the weakness is actually the frailty, the limitation is actually required, necessary for this kind of power to be made perfect?

Gregory Sterling:

I think it is because it then shows that it's not just human power or the natural strength of the individual. It's divine power suffused within a human being. And that's what makes it perfect.

Awet Andemicael:

Mmm. Oh, that's interesting. So, it's both the human and the divine at work together? 

Gregory Sterling:

It is but it's a sense that the divine enters this weak space and gives that strength and makes that 

possible. 

Awet Andemicael:

Mm-hmm.  

Gregory Sterling:

That's how I read it anyway. 

Awet Andemicael:

That makes sense. Yeah. And that creates something that is completely different from what would've been possible if it had been just human strength, even if it had been extraordinary or remarkable strength, right?

Gregory Sterling:

Yeah, and I think the implication of this is also that when we recognize our own weakness, it makes us sensitive to the call of God to serve the weak. Because we realize that's who we are, and so we have an affinity, and we trust that God's power can help them as it has us. 

Awet Andemicael:

Oh, that's interesting. So, we can identify with the people that we're serving rather than putting ourselves in some kind of position of authority or superiority over them because we have more strength. That's helpful. That's interesting.

Gregory Sterling:

So, Paul always thinks in paradox, or likes to think in paradox, and I find this passage is a great illustration of it. 

Awet Andemicael:

Yeah.

Gregory Sterling:

So, I think it touches right at the heart of Paul's thinking. 

Helena Martin:

Thanks for listening. For a transcript of today’s episode and lots more, check out yalebiblesudy.org. 

Chapter, Verse, and Season is a production of the Center for Continuing Education at Yale Divinity School. It’s produced by: Creator and Managing Editor, Joel Baden; Production Manager, Kelly Morrissey; Associate Producer, Aidan Stoddart; and I’m your Host and Executive Producer, Helena Martin. And our theme music is by Calvin Linderman.

We’ll be back with another conversation from Chapter, Verse, and Season.