Ep. 18 - A call to pivot and the life giving truth of an un-changing God.

Do you struggle with change? What about knowing when you need to make a change? Are you able to see it and pivot as you should? Join the guys as they dive in to the truth about how resistant we can be to changing anything. How habits can affect our hunting success as well as our relationship with God. They look at how changes were necessary during bow season and in their faith journeys. Listen in on the changes they realized they needed to make this past season and how the call to change looks different throughout our lives. 

Thanks for joining us on The Bowtreader Podcast. Leave a comment to let us know where you are listening from as well as any topics that you would like to hear us cover. Be sure to like the episode and subscribe to follow along.

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Transcript

JOHN: 0:07

Hey guys, John with the bow trader podcast here. Wanted to thank you for joining us on the podcast. We are starting off a brand new season, the 2025 podcast recording season. Uh, we're going to be dropping episodes on a more regular basis. We're excited to get this back going again, and it's going to be much the same as what we've done in the past. We're going to be talking about Archery hunting. We're going to be talking about shooting bows, setting up new equipment. We're going to be talking about what it's like getting out in the field, how to interact with others. Interacting with God in our vertical relationship with Him, the creator of the universe that wants to have a relationship with each one of us. So those are the things we're going to be talking about. We're excited that you're joining us. Exciting that you're, that you're listening. Uh, we want you to, to share, share your feedback with us. Let us know what you want to hear, what topics you want us to cover. And we're just super excited that we get to share this time with you. So buckle up, enjoy the ride Another cool morning. It's going to be a beautiful day. It's what it's looking like outside. We've actually had a winter. We have had a winter. We have had a winter. There is no doubt about that. All right, guys. Well, welcome back to the bow trader podcast. So, uh, you got John here and we got Brandon with us again this morning. And, uh, Brandon, say good morning, everybody. Good morning. See there. It's good to be here, man. Right on cue. Right on cue again. I love it. I love it. All right, guys. So, we're gonna, we're gonna talk about lessons from the season. You know, we talked a little bit about our season last time. And, uh, we wanna go into some lessons that we learned from the season this year. And, you know, kind of what it looks like to, to make changes when you realize that you need to make changes with what you're doing. Uh, Brandon and I talked a little bit about this kind of leading up to our, our, uh, conversation, just kind of chatting this morning and, um, how hardheaded we can be about making changes sometimes and how that shows up in all areas of life, but we're going to, we're going to talk about, we're going to, you know, kind of start out talking about, Um, what that looks like from a hunting perspective. Uh, so Brandon, you had some stories about that. I wanted you to share that this morning.

BRANDON: 2:31

Oh yeah. Well, it's, it just shows my stubbornness and I'm sure some of our, um, stubbornness, um, other people. I don't, I know men aren't typically stubborn, but, um, not men and we would never be creatures of habit. Right. Um, but, but one of the things that hit me, uh, and hit me too late this year was that when things were not going great with the season and the deer were not doing the typical things that they have done in the past is historical patterns weren't the same because of trees that. You know, or, or down from hurricanes. And we talked about some of the weather events last time, but obviously changed patterns, changed things they were doing. And what I realized and what I learned this year is the important of adjustability, like being able to make adjustments quickly to what the deer are doing or aren't doing. But what I found was, I just kind of kept doing the same thing I've always done. Yep. You know, um, trying to hunt the same way I'd always hunted, even though it wasn't working, I just kept trying. I kept thinking, well, eventually it'll work. And, you know, pretty soon you're three quarters of the way through the season and you go, you know what, this isn't working. And I think that that's something that I learned that was a really good lesson is when you realize that it's not working, try something else. You may not know exactly what to do. But what you're doing is not working. I think, you know, we've all heard this, the definition of insanity is, uh, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. And I think my hunting this year could have been described as insanity. It literally almost drove me insane.

JOHN: 4:24

Yeah.

BRANDON: 4:24

Um, but being able to make that adjustment, I know I told you the analogy of. Um, baseball and, and the higher level I went in baseball, I didn't make it past college. Uh, it wasn't very good, uh, once I got to college at that level, but it became more and more important to make adjustments quickly in hitting, you know, you, you went from being able to have the time to make adjustments, um, maybe from week to week, even to, I need to make these adjustments. in the at bat, I need to realize what this picture's doing now. And so for me, one of the things I learned was be flexible, be adjustable. Don't just stick to what you've always done. Don't just think that somehow the deer are going to do what you want them to do or what they've always done, but be able to Go figure out what they're doing. You know, something that I think I got caught up into is once the season came in, I'd done some scouting, I'd made some plans, uh, had some strategy. And once the season came in, I wanted to hunt. And sometimes I think it's so much better to take time again, to reevaluate, to go back, scout more, take some, even though like you want to be in a tree. But figure out what the deer are doing because I think we feel like we have ideas and it works to some degree of how to manipulate their behavior when really, if we're going to be successful, what I learned this year is we're going to have to figure out their behavior and realign ourselves to that versus thinking that we're going to somehow fail. Uh, with a corn pile, make them do what we want them to do, especially a mature buck. And in a year like this year where there was plenty of food without having to come to a corn pile.

JOHN: 6:30

Yeah. I'll tell you what, man, there was a, uh, we were, we were going to have a good, uh, a good acorn crop this year, regardless. Yeah. And then because of those storms, it all hit the ground at the same time. Yes. And we had that happen a couple, uh, maybe three years ago. So we, we had. Um, we had some pretty, pretty rough drought conditions and then we got some rain, um, you know, like the second week of the season, right? And then all of a sudden everything dropped.

BRANDON: 7:03

Yeah.

JOHN: 7:03

And I remember calling some forestry friends of mine, I was like, man, what's going on? And they said, you know, just the trees going through this stress. Right of the season. It's it's normal to see something like this. You know, nothing's going wrong. All your trees are not about the dye or anything. I mean, I was freaked out by it. Yeah, we had we had Um, just these crazy, we had red, we had red oaks and white oaks dropping at the same time, and we still had persimmon hanging on the tree. Wow. And that is not normal. Yeah, that's crazy. That's what alarmed me one day was I was out hunting in it. And, and I saw that and I was like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It's September. What's going on, Yeah. Why are the, why are the a, sorry, you know? And then, and then it was like, um, and then we did have, you know, a later wide oak. Uh, drop, which was normal, you know, it's normal for us to see that, you know, like an October timeframe where there's really big white oaks will start dropping. And uh, but yeah, that was, that was interesting, but I can't tell you how many folks we've had coming in the shop this year, just talking about, um, man, I'm not getting, I'm not getting pictures anymore. Cause it's, it's, it happened with us. Yeah. Yeah. And it was, I think a big part of that was. The deer's habitat changed, you know, we had this cameras where we normally have this cameras, you know, cause we, we ran cameras all the time. My son is like, he, he. He loves it. He loves getting pictures all the time. Yeah. And, um, so we've got him out there year round. And it's rare that we go and move the camera. And we learned this year that, hey, we, we, we got to move some stuff. Cause we know the deer are here. That's right. You know, but where in the world had they gone? And, um, last weekend I had a guy come in and he just said, he, he blamed it on baiting. And, you know, I think that there is some validity to that. Um, obviously I, I don't know where he hunts. I don't, you know, we, we get to talk with people about all kinds of stuff, but we don't really getting into real good details about, you know, it's not like they're dropping us a pin and saying, Hey, look at this with me or anything like that. You know, I, I do get the opportunity to do that sometimes. And, and we'll, we'll probably talk about that a little bit, but, um, I think this year we almost needed to look at all of our hunting properties as though it was brand new property that we'd never hunted before. Because in so many ways it was. You know, I've got, um, Ethan, a college guy that works for us. He, um, He harvested his target, but Sunday after Sunday morning and I need to talk to him about that. He was supposed to be at church, but, uh, he went to the 11th anyway. So he, he, uh, he went Sunday morning and he got this bug that he's been watching since it was in velvet. Like he thought, he thought he was going to have a, an opportunity at this bug. Full velvet back in September and like two or three days before the season. He showed up on camera and he was hard horned I mean it happened Like it happened in like a four day period or something. It was pretty wild I mean we were watching him. We were you know, he was showing me pictures every day back in late August and early September and then I think our season opened on the 14th of September this year and So even like on the 10th of September. Yeah, we saw pictures of him where he was still still soft horn and man he was so excited and and Then that deer disappeared. Yeah, you know, he was just gone He hunted him a couple times early season and then just couldn't figure out where he was that You know that storm came through they lost like 70 percent of their trees on their farm. I mean, it's it's pretty rough where where his place is at and and so Finally, the deer start showing back up, you know, because all right. So the deer early season, you know, it's kind of a food thing, right? They're loading up on food, getting whatever they can because they know what's coming, you know, books are doing it because they're, you know, as that. As that transition from soft horn to hard horn happens, what, what, what's happening there is this, this massive testosterone dump, and that's what causes that, that velvet to come off. Well. So, you can look at it as like a 16 year old kid, right? That 12 year old kid. Yeah. He eats a lot, but nothing compared to when he's 16 or 17 or 18 years old, man, they'll, they'll eat you out of the house at home at that point. Yeah. Yeah. I am. I am living that right now. Okay. And so that's kind of that transition period they're going through. So they're loading up on food and you know, you can, you can get them pretty consistent at that point because they're going to food sources and then. Then you have this. Um, it's it's a big period during the season where, you know, it's not like they're not eating anymore, but their mind is not on food anymore. You know, it's on other things that go along with, with, um, with their year. Yeah. And, um, and then later in the year it goes, it moves back to food and there's less food available, you know, so it becomes, you know, if you can figure out where that food is, you can, you can find the deer. Yeah. But. We still have to remember, you know, most animals are primarily nocturnal. Yes. Right. So it's just a, it is just a battle. It's just a battle. It is. And

BRANDON: 12:34

especially, you know, it was a grind. Um, I will say I hunted to the last, you know, minute of, uh, daylight season, but, um, you know, it gets to the point where, um, Sometimes you're like climbing the tree going, I know I'm not going to see, you know, or, or I know I'm the chances of me seeing a really good buck are very slim. But, uh, again, that's when I just have to change my focus to, you know, I don't want to enjoy being out here. If I kill a deer, it's a bonus and, um, but still trying to learn things, but I know for me, I, I made adjustments too late, you know, my son, especially my oldest son and I, um, Man, Dake and I, we talked and talked and talked about where are the deer, where are the deer. Finally, I'm like, look, man, we got to do something different. And I think he kind of was just like, heck with this, you know, I'll just do something else. And I kept trying and, um, just hunting different places and, uh, I, I honestly don't feel like I ever really pinpointed, um, Exactly what they were doing, uh, but which by the time I started trying, it was later in the season. Um, and so a lot of the, the, I guess, better hunting opportunities were behind, but I did learn that this year of just being able to be adjustable, uh, and making quick adjustments when you realize, okay, this is not a typical season because it's going to happen again. Um, and I don't know that this year is not even more important than most years. to be in the woods, maybe even now trying to figure out what were the deer doing? Because we talked about this last week, the down trees and all of that, they're not going to be gone next year. Yeah. It's going to be the same. So, you know, scouting, figuring out like, where were they, what were they doing? What were their patterns really like? Um, I think it's probably going to be more important this year than probably any other year.

JOHN: 15:03

I think what's going to be a challenge for the 2025 season is figuring out where deer are bedding now. Yes. Because, you know, we have a lot of pine trees in Georgia. It's a big part of our economy is, is growing pine trees. Um. So because of that, pine plantations are usually clean, right? Right. It's, it's, it's land that you, that you burn on a regular basis and, and keep it, keep it clean so those trees are able to grow, right? So you know, In those areas where it's clean, that's not a bedding area. You know, a deer is not just going to go out there and lay down because the pine straw is comfortable. You know, even though it may be, they can't, they don't have any cover, so they're not doing that. So, so we've known, okay, this isn't a bedding area. This is, you know, they're going to travel through here, whatever. And, and from a bow hunting standpoint, that's extremely hard to hunt an area like that, right, because. When you have a area, an area that's clean like that, you know, deer in the Southeast, at least in Georgia, where we hunt, they don't, they are no respecter of trails, right? They will walk wherever they feel like walking. You know, I've hunted in, uh, in Illinois. And buddy, let me tell you something, if you find a trail, they're going to be on that trail. They are at some point going to come through that trail, right? You know, it's just, it's just different, you know, and, and, you know, the other thing that I'll say about hunting up north, up in Illinois. Is that, man, a deer will walk straight across the field. Yeah, you will never see a deer walking across the field down here. I mean, it's rare if you do, I mean, I'm talking about in the middle of the day, they'll just walk across the field, you know, and I was, I was shocked to see some of that stuff, you know, there was, there was a cornfield that I was hunting on up in Illinois this season. that they had just cut the corn on that field and I was hunting in the back corner and the combine was still sitting up in the front corner. I arranged that combine and it was like 1800 and something yards. I mean just as huge, hundreds of acres, uh, in this, well, no, no, that field was probably, it was a little over a hundred acres I think. Um, in that field itself. Now we did go to another field when we were doing some scouting. And that was the biggest field I've ever seen in my life. Yeah. I mean, it was just, there is not a field anywhere in the state of Georgia that's that, I mean, that field was like as big as Bullock County. It was just huge, man. And, uh, but anyway, yeah, to, to see, to see the deer just walk across the middle of the field, you know, one o'clock in the afternoon. Yeah. What is going on? Right. Right. Um, Um, but yeah, so, so looking at, I think you're right. I think right now, I think there's two things that need to happen if you're a bow hunter. Number one, don't just put your bow up, right? You know, you know what was going on with your bow. You've been shooting it. You've been dragging it through the woods for the past two and a half, three months. And you know, okay, this wasn't working quite right. It was good enough to get through the season. I didn't want to make a change, but I know I need to take care of this. This rest didn't work in right, or the string is looking rough right here. So, you know, whatever the case may be, take the time right now, you know, if, if we're your bow shop, come see us right now. Yeah. If you don't live here and you know, you're going to be going to another bow shop, I promise you, they will thank you for coming in in January to get, to get your bow worked on because there's just not that pressure of, you know, the vast majority of people. We'll pull their bow out a month before the season.

BRANDON: 18:53

They're going to come in September 1st and want you to fix it. Yeah. You know, and it just, and everybody else and

JOHN: 18:59

along with everybody else. And that's fine. I mean, we know that's going to happen, but it creates a lot of stress for us, you know, to try to handle the workload because in addition to working on bows and getting stuff ready, we're also selling a lot of new equipment during that time. Yeah. Um, you know, so it's, it becomes a, um, leading up to the season, it becomes a, you know, getting here at six or 7 a. m. every morning and leaving, you know, when we finally get that work done for the day, which who knows what time that is and that's fine, you know, we, we understand the seasonality of our business, you know, just like a, just like a peanut farmer can't, you know, I'm sure they would love to be able to go pick their peanuts. And. July, you know, because they, they got nothing going on, you know, they're done planting. They're just kind of maintaining their crop, making sure everything is, is, uh, sprayed when it needs to be sprayed with the fungicide and stuff like that, you know, but the reality is they can't do it until they're ready, you know? So the reality for me is I can't, I can't do the work until somebody comes in with it, you know? So that's what I would encourage everybody to do is instead of just putting your bow away. Take it out, look at it, if you're not comfortable with doing that, bring it in, let us go through it, take it to your local bow shop, let them go through it, and uh, you know, make sure your equipment is where it needs to be, and then the next thing I would say is still get out in the woods, you know, it's still early yet to be, you know, to be finding sheds, um, I mean, you, you may find some, we, we, we did have, Um, one or two bucks that, that we were seeing on camera, um, that had already dropped something, I mean, like even two weeks ago. So that, that was probably injury related that caused him to drop that. But it's, it's probably early for you to see that, but it's not too early for you to get out and figure out, okay, where are these deer moving? What's going on with them? Yeah, to, to have a, a better idea of what you're going to be doing going into the 2025 season, and if you run trail cameras, man, and you get out and you find something, move that trail camera, get it over there on that, on that trail that you found. And because there's not going to be any pressure, people aren't going in the woods and hunting, your neighbor's not going in the woods and hunting anymore, you know, your neighbor's probably not running their, their feeders anymore or anything like that, you know, we, we've got a, uh, neighboring property and, um, in fact, one time when I was hunting this year, their feeder went off and I didn't know they had a feeder and I just about came out of the tree and it was, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, over 100 yards from me, but when you're, it's probably 200 yards from me, but when you're deep in the woods and there's no sounds besides, you know, the mosquitoes buzzing in your ear every now and then, and you know, the crazy woodpecker that tries to take your eye out or something like that.

BRANDON: 22:07

Willing to waste an arrow. Right.

JOHN: 22:09

Yeah. So in, in, in other words, it's pretty quiet. And then all of a sudden you hear this metal sound of corn hitting this feeder. I was like, what is going on? And, um, yeah, so we learned that every day at 1648 or 448, uh, that, that feeder was going to go off and, you know, we never saw a deer Going towards that feeder until dark. Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's, and, and, listen, I'm not, I'm not here to tell you don't use feeders. Listen, if you want to use feeders, use them. If you want to use corn piles, use them. It's legal here, use them if you want to. Um, you know, we can get into all kind of rabbit holes on that, you know. But if you, if you want to do that, that's fine. There's, there's nothing wrong with it. But, um, just use it the right way, you know, like, uh, we'll, we'll, we'll use corn on our place, but I will never hunt over corn. Right. Well, I'll rarely hunt over corn. There have been times, you know, where I've taken a kid to go hunting and we just. We'll just sit on a corn pile in a, in a ground blind. We're just like 30 yards from the corn pile. Right. You know, and I know that deer are eventually going to show up to it just depending on what time of year it is. And I want them to get an opportunity. So here we go. Right. But typically if, if I have a feed source, I'm going to be hunting close to it. Yeah, but I want to be. In between where the deer is and where that food is, you know, like if, if I, if I had a choice, if I had a choice of knowing one thing from a, from a whitetail hunting standpoint, I want to know where that deer's bedding. Yeah,

BRANDON: 23:57

yeah,

JOHN: 23:57

that, that is, if, if I could only know one thing, that's the thing I want to know, you know. Um,

BRANDON: 24:04

for sure. And I know a couple of years ago, man, I had this place. I was hunting and, um, still had it this year to hunt, but it just wasn't the deer just weren't there that it's kind of in and it's in the city limits. And so there's so much development going on here that a lot of that terrain changed around the area. And I think it affected the deer. But man, we had some really nice bugs. I mean, this kind of felt like a sequel and kind of thing where, I mean, when I would climb a tree, I'm looking over in somebody's backyard, I'm watching their dog run around the backyard kind of thing, but really nice bugs. And so we had a camera with some corn right on the edge of a field. And, uh, so as, as you walked in on my left, there were houses on my right. It was just, it's really nasty pond. So there was probably about, uh, 75 to 100 yard strip of woods and, um, I noticed like this really nice buck is showing up every single day, but it's like 630. So he's like 30, 45 minutes after dark every, just about every single day. And so I waited and waited and I needed a west wind that would be blowing out over that pond. Um, because I knew then like he's not gonna, he's not gonna pick me up. I can, I can get positioned right. And finally that day comes, it's like perfect, it's a cool day. Um, West wind, um, it's one of the few times that I can say I planned it and it worked out exactly like I planned, you know, and so I go, I go probably about a hundred yards. Or maybe a little more into the woods down this little strip of woods climb the tree You know, probably 30 minutes before dark about 15 does just come just blowing by me headed to the Cornpile. Well, I look up and I see one little day this is later in the season one little doe and I think it was probably a Um, a young doe that, that came in or, or late and I look behind her and, and here he comes. Well, I'd already killed three deer that year with my bow. You know, they were all 22 to 23 yards. Well, I range him and he's going to be at like 22 steps, right? 23, 22 yards. Well, the only thing I had then was. the issue of drawing without the dough. With 15 doughs? Yeah, well they're gone. They had already gone through, yeah. They're gone. But without this dough seeing me, or without him seeing me, and so it worked out perfect, man. This dough walks behind this green bush as his head goes behind a big pine tree. And I mean, I couldn't have drawn it up any better. So I draw back and I'm like, in my mind, I'm like, this is game over. This is done. Like, man, it's worked perfectly. Uh, I shoot somehow I made a bad shot. I don't know what happened. Like that distance all season long had been just money, right? It should be. And I hit him low, um, just kind of grazed the belly and, uh, you know, he took off, we never, never found him, found some blood and stuff, but I think he, he probably lived and, um, but you know, it was set up perfect, but I would have never killed that deer over the corn. I had to get a hundred, 150 yards away from that corn. I knew where they were bedding. It was a much more simple situation. And being in a huge block of woods trying to figure it out because it was just a, an easy funnel, but I never would have been able to have a shot at that deer, um, hunting the corn, you know, like you were saying, getting away from the corn, um, figuring out their travel ways, those kinds of things is, is a lot more effective than, than what we do and, and not to, uh, feathers, but I feel like as hunters, it's easy for us to get lazy. Um, where it's, I mean, honestly, it's just easy to go. I mean, it's kind of nice just to go climb up in a stand, you know, when you, with a corn file and you don't have to walk, you know, four or 500 yards or whatever. And, um, but I think. Success, you know, to have consistent success and consistency and seeing better deer, it takes that effort. And, um, and so at least that's what I've seen over the last several years.

JOHN: 29:06

Yeah. And that's just privately and hunting.

BRANDON: 29:08

Yeah. That's not even counting public. I actually hunted public for the first time in my life this year. We were up at Lake Oconee. Right after Christmas with my wife and her family, love my family dearly, but I can only sit in the house for so long. And so finally I got a pass to go. And so I went to the Oconee WMA first time I've ever done that. And, um, So that was really cool. I, I walked in and, um, it was different though, because I walk in and I'm finding the spot. I'm actually finding some really fresh scrapes and it was archery only and had been for a couple of weeks. And so, um, I'm, I'm looking and I find some scrapes or some fresh rubs. You know, there's a lot of sign, a lot more sign than I expected to see. And I'm like this, I'm just, I think this is the place. It was a little creek that ran through there. Nice little draw where the deer were walking. I was like, man, I'm, I'm going to hunt here and I look over and there's a climber. And so I'm like, all right, I'll keep moving. So I go on a little bit further and I found this place where like three creeks ran together and there was a pine thicket on one side. There was a trail just worn out down the edge of that pine thicket and I'm like, well, I'll give this a try. Well, I, I climbed the tree. As I get about three quarters up to where I want to be, um, the elevation I want to sit at, I turn around and look over my left shoulder. There's a hang on up the ridge. Oh my gosh. So I'm like, at this point I'm like, well, maybe they won't just won't show up. Yeah. This archery, this probably, I don't know, it was at least a hundred yards. I'm like, well, we'll just, you know, if I see one, I'll point it out to them, you know, but, um. But I ended up seeing a couple of does, so that was really cool, but it's like you said, you know, this is, we're talking like having to work to get to a place to hunt on private land, um, public even more so, and I realized how out of shape I was, especially going back, most of, uh, the walk in was downhill, most of the walk out was uphill. It's funny how that works. Yeah, I mean, I'm like, can it be downhill both ways? No, no, no,

JOHN: 31:24

it could only be uphill both ways when you were walking to school as a kid. In the snow. In the snow, barefoot. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we've all heard that story or some rendition of it, right? That's right. So,

BRANDON: 31:36

um, but yeah, so that was interesting. And I think that, um, you know, just being willing to do that extra, um, You know and and try to make the most of it. That's one thing. I hate man. I hate when I leave a Hunt feeling like I wasted it.

JOHN: 31:54

Mmm,

BRANDON: 31:55

you know you get that opportunity to go and Either you just didn't go to the right spot and you know it or you know I don't know if you've ever done this but I get to the place that I really want to hunt and I think I've got the right tree and I climbed the tree and I'm like, I can't see anything and you know, being able to even just pick out the right tree. I mean, just, but I hate leaving a hunt feeling like I just wasted that opportunity, you know? And so, um, and I think a lot of times when we're just hunting a food plot or. We're just hunting a corn pile. I think it's kind of a wasted opportunity. It's, it's, it's not giving us the best opportunity. We're not maximizing our chances to see a good deer.

JOHN: 32:49

Yeah. You know, one of my things is. I hate wasting time. Yes. Like it really, it bothers me more than it should. Right. And, and it keeps me from going hunting sometimes because I will, I'll get home from work on a Saturday, you know, we, we closed the shop at two o'clock on Saturdays and I'll get home and it's like, you know, all right, this is perfect. We. We got time to get in the woods, we can go, you know, especially early season, I mean, you got plenty of time and I'll get home and I'll, I'll see something that needs to be done and I'm just like, yeah, no, I'm going to stay, you know, I'm not going out today, I'm going to, I'm going to stay here and I'm going to work on this. And, uh, that's why when you look at that board over there, Wes has got five checks and I got zero, you know, it's not because I didn't have the opportunity to go hunting. It's because I saw something that I wanted to do, you know, I wanted to clean this up at the barn or I wanted to work on this side by side that's got bad gas in it or whatever, you know, and I'm just so, um, um, because I'll feel like. You know, I'll get out there to go hunting and, and it's just running through your mind. I just can't stop thinking about it. You know, it's like, man, it's, it's, you know, that old commercial that was like a, I don't know. It was like a, some kind of stain treatment commercial or something. This guy goes in for an interview and he's got this stain on his shirt and the stain is supposedly talking to the other guy. He can't think about anything except that. Staying on the, on the guy's shirt. And, and I just, I can't get it out of my mind that there's something that I need to be doing, you know? And, uh, I don't,

BRANDON: 34:29

well, see you and I, then we need to, we need to somehow merge and meet in the middle because when deer season comes in, man, like the house, it just falls apart.

JOHN: 34:43

Well, so what you're saying is you are a pro at ignoring everything. I'm

BRANDON: 34:48

like, Yeah, that, that can wait. I can, I can get to that later. Yeah. Um, and so, uh, but I should probably be more the other way, but if there's an opportunity, man, I, I can, I, there's, there's not many things I can just completely block out of my mind. But during deer season, I think I have this spiritual gift of, of, uh, of not, not noticing or just not wanting to notice things that I probably should be. Working on

JOHN: 35:21

the spiritual gift of, of selective discernment. Yeah. Or, or, uh, or, or of completely ignoring Right. That the house is on fire. That's exactly right. Oh my goodness. Well, we'll come up with some good spiritual gifts, won't we? That's right. Oh, man, I, you know, I have to get my Bible here. I don't know if that one's in there. Yeah, I don't think it is. It might be. It might be.

BRANDON: 35:42

I don't think those lists are exhaustive though. Okay. I mean, I think there's just a few that were referenced. I'm sure this is one of them.

JOHN: 35:52

Yeah, that, so that's, that's been my challenge for this year, at least, because, you know, every time we, when I'd come home in the afternoons, you know, back to that idea of actually setting aside that time to go and hunt, I'd come home in the afternoons and I'd see, you know, man, I still got that pile of trees that I hadn't done something with. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, um. You know, my, my tractor has been down for months and I've got a guy that's working on it and man, he's had to tear this thing apart to try to figure out what's going on with it and he still hasn't gotten to the bottom of it and his schedule has been crazy, uh, because of, you know, everything going on around here from, uh, From a construction standpoint and everything, you know, so he works a full time job and then also works on equipment on the side and His his job has been running him ragged. Yeah, you know, so it's like He's he's had our tractor for a while and he's I know he's gonna get to it. You know, I know he is but it's like I haven't been able to do stuff because with a tractor, with a front end loader, moving some trees is like 30 minutes.

BRANDON: 37:04

Yeah. Yeah. That's the best thing

JOHN: 37:06

with a fat guy and a chainsaw. It is, it is not 30 minutes. So talking about realizing how out of shape you are, man. A chainsaw will teach you that pretty quick. Yeah,

BRANDON: 37:18

I'll tell you the other thing that'll teach you how out of shape you are is dragging a deer.

JOHN: 37:22

Oh my gosh. So, that deer that, that, that buck that, that Wes killed this year, Um, he was way back on the creek. Yeah. Okay, and, and the barrier from kind of where our, where our pine plantation is to the creek usually runs about 100 or 150 yards. Okay? Yeah. He shot that deer, like right on the creek, which is the property line, which is, you know, normal here, uh, creeks or property lines a lot of times. And, um, So he shot that deer and it ran the exact opposite direction. Now there has been a couple of times where that's happened. Uh, like I've got a friend that, that went out mule deer hunting and he killed his first mule deer with his bow. Um, made like a 48 yard shot or something. I mean, it just pinwheeled this deer and he took off running and ran and died in the trail. Yeah. And it was one of those, yeah, it was one of those properties where, um, it was, it was public land, but you were able to drive side by sides and stuff like that on it. So they were able to pull right up to him and load him in the back of the side by side and head out. And he's like, man, this. I'm never going to have another hunt like this, you know, it wasn't like it was this crazy, insane trophy or something, but to him, it's a trophy. Absolutely. You know, it's his first mule deer and he's like, he fell in love with it. Every year he's trying to figure out, all right, where, where am I going to get to go? I want to go chase mule deer again. And he just told me, he said, John, it's just a, it's a completely different game, you know? But anyway, this deer ran the exact opposite direction that we would have wanted him to go. And, and, you know, we got all these limbs and trees down in the creek. Dragging through a creek already is not fun because you've got all these roots and everything. If you have a, a, an area that's wet and you've got hardwoods, you've always got these roots coming up trying to get air. Right? And so you've got all these roots on top that you're dragging over. And then. In addition to that, we've got trees that we got to get over and, you know, it's in the middle of the night and we're dragging and the worst part of this was nothing looks the same at night to start with. Okay. Well, add to that. This is land we've been hunting for. A decade. So I'm, I really know where I'm at. I've, I've, I've never gotten lost out there. I mean, it's not that big of a piece of property, but I've never gotten lost or anything, but here's what happened this year. So you're dragging this deer and it's like, you got to go over this tree. So you turn around and you're facing the deer and you're pulling backwards. Yeah. And you finally get over this tree and then you turn around and it's like. Man, where, where am I at? Well,

BRANDON: 40:25

and everything looks different.

JOHN: 40:26

Yeah. I mean, I, I turned around and I'm like, okay, well we're only, you know, we got 200 yards to go with this deer to where we can get out and we can, we can probably get to him with the truck. And I turn around and I'm like I said, Wes, uh, which way do we go? Where, where, where we at right now? I said, turn your headlamp off so we can see if we can see some lights. I mean, that's how bad it was. I got so disoriented pulling that thing. And the deer weighed like 220 pounds or so, which is huge for a Georgia deer. And, um, and it was a deer we had never gotten on camera. Well, not, not this season. We figured out that we had gotten him on camera a couple years ago. Um, but we had never, we had not gotten him on camera this year. And, um, anyway. Um. Um, man, it was, it was hands down the worst drag we have ever had.

BRANDON: 41:17

Well, you know, one of the things that's kind of funny, um, is tracking deer. So I'll go track deer for people and we find the deer and you know, I don't just leave them with it, but they'll start to drag it. And this does not apply to anyone listening to this podcast. You would never do this. Um, But we get, uh, get going and it's so slow and they're, they're dragging it. And I'm like, Gosh, it's nine o'clock. I still got an hour, hour, 15 minute drive home. I gotta, you know, and so finally I'm like, Hey, why don't you let me give you a hand with that because I'm like, we got to get this thing out of the woods, man. And so I ended up dragging that deer, but man, it, it is exhausting. Yeah. And, um, but I'm like, I can't be here all night. We can't go five yards and stop, you know, we got to get this thing out. That ain't going to work. And so, um, But yeah, sometimes, you know, when you do that, you're dragging, I mean, it can be a four or five hundred yard drag because you know, you're tracking it, you're not tracking it because it died a hundred yards away, you know, and so it, that can be the unfun part. Yeah. Um,

JOHN: 42:35

yeah. I had somebody tell me one time, the best way to ruin a hunt is to take a shot. I'm like, what

BRANDON: 42:42

the best part though, is when we load it in the truck, I get to go home. There you go. I don't have to go clean the gear or whatever. So, um, but anyway, yeah, so it definitely tells on you when, when you're dragging one out. And, um, but the good side is at least you, you did a kill one. Yeah. So.

JOHN: 43:02

Which is the point. Yes. You know, uh, that is the point of going out there, but, you know, going out and, um, getting the opportunity to be out in creation and just being unplugged for a little while. Yeah. Like I'll get on the guys all the time. I say, get on to them. I'll just be like, guys, why are you sitting there on your phone? Yeah. Put that thing away. Absolutely. You know, completely unplugged for a little while. Yeah. Watch what's going on around you. Just, you know, I think I think there are a lot of deer Alive right now because somebody was sitting there on tiktok And didn't even know they walked by absolutely um, because I mean it's like Um, I'll, I'll laugh at myself sometimes when I'm hunting, because you expect, you know, you're sitting there looking and, and kind of watching around and making sure you're not moving too much and turning your head real slow and stuff. And it's like, man, these deer are not walking through the woods, like some kind of ninja, you know, looking everywhere. Now, a doe might be, you know, we talked a little bit about the difference between a buck and a doe, you know, just like we're hardheaded and, and, um, we get into our habits like I bet. I bet. The majority of the guys listening right now I bet you put the same shoe on first every morning. Yeah, I mean, that's how that's how How much of a creature of habit we are

BRANDON: 44:24

probably wash the same body part first every time, like left arm every time in the shower. I mean, it's just what I do. And, uh, if, if I, if I don't wash my hair first, then I forget to wash your hair. The whole day is ruined. You know,

JOHN: 44:40

why is, why are we such creatures of habit, man? I mean, it's, it just is, it's comical to me and I'll be sitting there when I'm hunting and I'm thinking about, you know, And I think the reason I do this, the reason I'm like looking everywhere is because a deer will just show up. Oh, yeah. It's like, man, I was just looking right there two seconds ago and then I turned and I looked back and I have never, I hadn't heard a thing. Yeah. And there's just this doe standing there. And I don't know what it is about does, but they will pick you off. So, so easy. I mean, it's like you can, you can kill a buck if you can just get to where the buck's at. You can kill him. Yeah. Or you can have your opportunity. Right. You know, like, I mean, we talked about last time that I had an opportunity to kill what was my target buck this year, which for most people would not be considered a trophy. But for me, it was just because of what he is. And man, he took up way too much. brain space. I don't have extra space. Okay, I understand. I don't have extra space for something to just come in and start taking it up. And he was taking up. He was taking up more room than he should have. And he gave me my opportunity and I blew it. You know, I finally got drawn, but But you know, it was, it was meant to be this year that I was just going to draw my bow on deer. And that was it. You know, apparently. Yeah. I mean, dude, I got really good at holding my bow at full draw.

BRANDON: 46:06

I don't know if you've ever seen this before, but she's talking about does and how, you know, they're just so jumpy. They're so alert. They're, you know. But if there's a place that I hunt consistently, I've had does that will walk out and look at that tree. Oh, yeah. Like they, they'll look and see if you're there, you know, and it's like, it's such a difference. You know, most of the bucks, they're kind of cruising through. Um, they got their mind probably on one thing and they're just like us, just kind of like, do, do, do, do, do.

JOHN: 46:41

I've had, I've had a buck look, look straight up at me. And sit there and look and kind of turn his head and then be like, eh, whatever, you know, just walking off. Whereas you have a doe do that. If they ever look up at you, I mean, move, don't move, whatever you want to do, it's probably over.

BRANDON: 46:58

Yeah. And this is probably not a good practice, but. I kind of have a rule that if a doe blows, it's got to go, you know, and so like, as soon as the foot stomps, the arrows fly. Oh yeah. No, I know.

JOHN: 47:13

I know. So, so Sunday was our, was, uh, closing day. That was the last day of the season and I hunted Sunday until, you know, the, the last second of shooting light and again, Oh, I didn't get drawn. I, I tried to and I got busted and it was a doe. I mean, just this, it was an old doe, big old long nose. And I was like, man, I, I, uh, this is it. Uh, I gotta go. And she was probably pregnant. She looked, she looked pretty, pretty big. And, um, You know, it, it just, it didn't happen. And this little four point came walking through. He had no care in the world, but that doe, I mean, she was 40 yards from me and I'm behind the tree cause I saddle hunt. So I'm able to use the tree to really. You know, a lot of what I'm doing and, um, from behind the tree, you know, she saw my hand going and grabbing my bow, how in the world, you know, and I know what it was when she saw the movement and trees don't have arms. So she's like, nope, nope, something's wrong. So here she goes blowing and, you know, raising cane and, and, and getting out of there. But um, Yeah, that buck came walking through at like, I mean, he wasn't that close to me, but he didn't have, man, he wasn't even looking. Yeah. He was just, you know, he just walking through, you know, going in and

BRANDON: 48:39

like, they'll smell the tree. You climb,

JOHN: 48:43

you know, something I've noticed over the past couple of years. Talking about deer smelling trees is them eating the moss off the tree, huh? I watched it again Sunday. Yeah, a young deer sitting there eating it and Four years ago. I actually recorded that deer that's hanging on the wall up there, right? I recorded him for like 30 minutes really eaten. I'll show you that video In fact, I'll post that video but it I mean it was crazy. He's just sitting there eating it and we pulled that video up Like a month ago and we were looking at it and I was like, man, this deer looks familiar. And one of the guys was like, John, that's that deer right there. And we started looking at it and sure enough. Yeah, I killed him. Um, I killed him to either, either the next year or two years later. And the mass that he picked up in that time was unreal. That's right. Yeah. Uh, but that's what he was doing. You know how the trees, especially in the creek bottom, they'll get that green. That's right. Whatever growing on the bottom of it. That's what he was sitting there eating. I mean, and sat there and ate it for 30 minutes. Just crazy. Yeah. I'd never seen a deer do that before. And then I saw him again, really close to the same spot that I watched that deer do it a few years ago. Um, I watched it again on, on Sunday, this young deer coming out and that's what, that's what he was eating or he or she, whatever it was, was, was eating. Was that, that, that moss, that stuff growing on the bottom of the tree. There's another lesson. Don't hunt corn, hunt moss. I mean, hunt something, you know, I mean, listen, you ain't going to kill them from your living room. I can promise you that or sitting there, you know, like I was this year running a chainsaw. Absolutely. You're not going to get that done. But yeah, there's definitely a difference between bucks and does and what it looks like to get them and everything. So, um, so yeah, that's, it's, it's, it is. It's always a challenge. And it's always so much fun to me to be out there just to have the opportunity to learn something new. Yes. Like I don't yeah. I don't want to, you know, be pious or something and be like, well, I've learned something new every time I got home because, you know, sometimes you're just out there and you're just like, you know, you, you didn't see something new, but then sometimes you see something that's like, I've never seen that is crazy. You know, I had no idea that that would happen. I had no idea a doe would grunt. You know, it's like what, you know, and, and, and so that's really cool to get to see that, um, and to see how deer respond to just all kinds of different things, you know, I mean, when they were, when God created that animal, he gave them some really cool stuff to keep them alive and seeing how they use that is, um, is really cool. So I've, I've, I just. Yeah. I just think it's so much fun to be able to get out and do that. Yeah.

BRANDON: 51:38

And that's one of the great things about being in the woods is you never know what you're gonna see. You know, you never know. Um, you never know when that really great opportunity to get a nice deer is gonna happen. But you also never know when you're gonna see something you never seen before. Experienced something you've never seen. And, uh. That's part of the excitement. It's kind of like fishing in the ocean. You kind of don't ever know what you're going to catch, you know, and always something new and, and it's the same with the woods. Um, and just like for me, you know, hunting that public land for the first time, it was just a cool experience, you know, just something different. And, um, so, um, Yeah, it's always always fun just to be able to get out, you know, and be in the in the woods. Yeah For me a lot of sermon prep happens in a tree. Yeah,

JOHN: 52:31

you know Yeah, I get it man. I have I keep a I keep like a little small leather journal Yeah in my pack and even Sunday when I was hunting I pulled it out Was it Sunday? Yeah, it was Sunday and uh, I'm sitting there making notes about stuff because I taught Sunday morning and um, I did not get through everything. Right. You know, so there's gonna be a, a, uh, uh, to be continued. There you go. It's coming up this Sunday, right? And um, and, and, and it was because we were talking about spiritual warfare. Yeah. And you can't get through that in 30 minutes. Yeah. You can't get through that in three months I think. Right, know, but. You try to do things succinctly and, and, you know, it's, um, it's, it's in a small group. It's in a Sunday school type setting. And, um, you know, it's just, we leave room for people to ask questions for us to have a discussion and stuff like that. It's not like it's a lecture environment. Right. And, um, so a lot of questions came up. Um, on Sunday, and I'm sitting there making notes about them, you know, because one of the things that I like to do, and I, I want to be better about this, but when, when a question comes up that we really need to spend time on, I want to make sure we go back to that, you know, and, um, because number one, I want people to realize, hey, I want you to ask questions, and if you don't address and, you know, questions, then. People won't ask, you know, what's, what's the point of doing that, right? Um, so there was one in particular and I actually reached out to, um, to this lady this week and I said, Hey, thank you so much for asking the question you did. I guarantee you there's other people thinking about that. And, apologize that I wasn't able to, you know, give it the attention that it needed to be given. Because it was a pretty deep question. Yeah. The question was, why does God allow Satan to do what he does? Right. Right. That is not a quick 30 second blurb. Right. Right. And I told her, I said, listen, we're gonna, we're gonna continue in the, you know, kind of the study that we're in. But when we get done with this. That's first on the, it's first on the list that we're going to go into. You can't say he just does. I mean, you can't, I mean, who are we to question God, right? Who are we to question God? Job tried that, right? Like we talked about mean, yeah, he did, you know, and it's like, well, and he's not the only example, you know, that we get to see in scripture where somebody was, was questioning God and, you know. Not exactly following through like he said to, and you know, you got somebody that, that took a staff and hit a rock and we'll have that work out for him. Right. You know, so, so, I mean, yeah, we, we get to, we get to look at things like that. And the, the goal from the word go is we don't want to be smarter about scripture. You know, I don't want to be. I don't want to be where I could say, well, I've got all of scripture memorized and I'm holier than, okay, whatever. That's great. Fantastic. You know, but I do want to be able to say. That I've helped somebody better understand God's character.

BRANDON: 56:00

Yeah.

JOHN: 56:01

Because if I can better understand God's character, I can be closer to him.

BRANDON: 56:07

Exactly.

JOHN: 56:07

And then I have a better understanding of why I want to Um, behave in a certain way, not because I have the fear of, man, God's going to send me to hell if I don't do this, you know, that legalistic attitude, but because man, I look at what he's done for me. Absolutely. Look at what he's done for me. And I want to do things that's going to cause people to. Want to know him, you know, and I don't want to say want to know him the way I know him because I don't, I don't fully know God. I mean, how can I fully know him? Right. You know, I know him a lot better than I did a year ago.

BRANDON: 56:46

Yes.

JOHN: 56:46

I know him way. Yeah, absolutely. I know him way better than I did a decade ago. Sure. You know, I know him way, way, way better than I did 20 years ago, you know, but I, there's never, there's never that, you know, that, that, that phrase arrived. What, where did that even come from? We need to look that up and we need to go find that guy and like slap him one time. You know, whoever came up with that, with that idea of arrived. So if any of you listening, don't feel like you've arrived. Well, welcome to the club. Yeah. I always

BRANDON: 57:22

tell, um, people, look, God has you in a process. It's not a project, right? Yeah. It's not something that you're just going to complete. That you're going to be finished. You're not going to get to this place in this life and go, okay, I'm done. And the other thing I encourage people with is just enjoy the journey, like enjoy the relationship, enjoy the fellowship and know that like. He's going to work out of you what he's put in you and just walk with him, you know, and Jesus made it pretty clear that if you abide in him and you'll produce much fruit and he makes it really simple. We complicate it. And, uh, we're good at that, right? Well, at complicating things, women are guys would never do that.

JOHN: 58:10

Okay. All right. Brandon is the one that said that just for the record here, as he said, as he said that his chair dropped like seven inches, he just, he just hit some turbulence over here,

BRANDON: 58:20

struck by lightning. Um, but no, I say that sarcastically because we are so good. Um, guys, guys, especially at, um, You know, overcomplicating the obvious, and the gospel is so simple, right? Believe, and walk with the Lord, and He does the rest. He does for us what we can't do for ourselves. And, man, we complicate that. Um, and a lot of it's because of what we've seen. You know, we If you grew up in church, you probably heard a lot more about what not to do than what to do. Um, you know, and, and if, even if you heard some of the, uh, do's, it was still a, probably a lot of do's and don'ts, um, and a lot less about knowing God, um, God becomes easily something else to do rather than someone to

JOHN: 59:17

know.

BRANDON: 59:17

And, um, and I think we have to realize that. And you've talked about this, uh, actually before the podcast today is what God wants is intimacy. Yeah. You know, he wants, he wants us close. I mean, he would not have sent Jesus if he just wanted to be some God who's way off aloof and not involved in our lives.

JOHN: 59:42

Yeah. Yeah.

BRANDON: 59:44

And so, um, I always believe this, that God is so much more interested in our heart. Then he is our behavior and that sounds bad, but I think God, the reality is if God gets our heart, he's going to change our heart and our behavior is going to change. If we're in his word, our mind's going to be renewed. The decisions we make are going to change. And so the path of our lifeway is going to change. And so, I think a lot of times what we do, and we mean it well, is we try to pick the bad fruit off of our lives. Rather than allowing God to work at the root of our life, um, and until that root changes, um, the fruit's not going to change. Um, and we can spend all of our life trying to pick that bad fruit off, or trying to hide it from other people, but it's still going to be there. It's only really until God has our heart, and he begins to work at a deep level in our heart and our soul, um. That that becomes consistent. We can modify our behavior for a while. Sure we can, yeah. But it can't be consistent.

JOHN: 1:01:02

You know, I think, I think the best example of us modifying our behavior is Sunday mornings.

BRANDON: 1:01:08

Oh, gosh. Everybody's a saint on Sunday mornings. Yeah. Everybody lies on Sunday mornings. Because, I mean, think about this. You walk in and you're like Hey, how's it going, man? We're doing great. No. And like some of these people that are saying that like their life's falling apart, but church becomes the one place we feel like we can't be vulnerable when it should be the place that we can be the most vulnerable.

JOHN: 1:01:35

Right. Yeah. The point of being there of worshiping. Yeah. Right. It's not a social event. Right. You know, and I think that, you know, I look back on. Um, I, I grew up going to church, my parents had me in church. It was a, it was a, it was a, a big part of our lives. You know, we were involved in, in, uh, stuff that would happen throughout the week and, and things like that, but it never really connected with me, you know, I didn't really understand it. It was like, Oh yeah, okay. You know, and, and going to church has. Has changed a lot over the years. Yeah. You know, it used to be that, um, you know, the men were there and they were all in suit and ties and, and, um, you know, you were picking up a hymn book and you were singing, singing these hymns and, you know, um, which is, and nothing wrong with it. Yeah. That's great. You know, I mean, there's still some churches like that and that's fine. I'm not sitting here. wanting to, to, to beat up a, a, a church, so to speak. But there was this idea of the, I almost like this perfection that you had to obtain somehow. And, um, you know, when you're young, You don't interact with people that much outside of like going to school and stuff like that, you know, and, and seeing where people are at and, uh, and then as you get older, you get to interact with folks and it's like, yeah, you, you were at church Sunday. You heard what our pastor said. And I, this ain't what you're doing right now. It's not consistent with that. You know, what happened, you know,

BRANDON: 1:03:23

and that's extremely impactful on A young person in general, but especially an unbeliever.

JOHN: 1:03:31

Yeah.

BRANDON: 1:03:32

And, and it, it obviously impacts a believer too, but for an unbeliever it just really is a turnoff when there's such an, and, and there's gonna be some inconsistency in our life'cause we're not perfect. But when there's no consistency in our life with, that's in line with God's truth, like. That's pretty, that's a pretty big turnoff for people and I think that's one reason that people have rejected the church in a lot of ways is it's got a little bit of my experience is what I saw when I started going to church with my girlfriend who's now my wife is I was like I don't need this to live like I live like this is not it. going to change how I live, because the focus was on the wrong thing. And so what I saw actually turned me away rather than drawing me in.

JOHN: 1:04:33

What was some of the stuff that you saw that was doing that?

BRANDON: 1:04:35

Well, it was seeing people live two completely different lives. And it's one of the things as, You know, leading a church, uh, pastoring a church, it's one of the things I've never wanted for my kids, but again, I'm not perfect. So they, they see, they know the worst of me, right? My wife knows the worst of me, but I never want there to be such a huge gap between the person on the stage on Sunday morning and the person that they live with Monday through Saturday. But what I saw so much of was the inconsistencies and it wasn't trying to hold people to a perfect standard or really even looking for, you know, what people will say a lot of times is hypocrisy, right? It was, um, one example is as I went to church and I only went just to be with my girlfriend.

JOHN: 1:05:31

Yeah. Same. And so I go and

BRANDON: 1:05:33

sit and listen and I'm just like, oh gosh, when can we go eat lunch? And my stomach's growling and so, um, but, but what I started seeing was, you know, everybody was dressed up and I've always said this, you know, after I got saved, just like everybody went and they got cleaned up, they put on their best pants or best shirt, their best jacket and their best mask.

JOHN: 1:06:01

And

BRANDON: 1:06:02

they came to church. And so I'm watching all the people who are, you know, these people who are somebody in the community. And I'm like, well, I guess if I'm going to be somebody in the community, I need to do what they're doing. And so I thought one way I can do that is I'll usher. You know, it says, you know, some of the somebodies in the community, um, ushered. And so I was like, that's something I'll do. I'll usher. And so I got the right clothes. Um, I didn't have as I didn't grow up going to church. And so I got the right clothes. I started ushering and then we would go back. Um, they count out the money, put it in a bag, put it in the safe and then most of them left. Like they didn't stay for the service, um, or the rest of the service went to the golf course, whatever, nothing wrong with golf, but it's like, all right, like, what was the point of that just to check a box and say, I went to church just to say, Hey, I served a little bit just to be seen. I mean, like, I don't know what the purpose of it was, but for me, it was a huge turnoff from the standpoint of, I don't need religion. If this is what it is, I don't need God. If this is what this is about, like this is the most fake thing I've ever seen. And so it really, you know, made me where I became very critical. Um, you know, I still think about one poor lady that she tried so hard with my age group and. to, to really lead us in Bible studies. But I was that jerk. No boy went to the Bible study to ask the questions that you couldn't answer and that really are stupid. Like, can God make a rock so big that he can't move it kind of thing, you know? And I mean, just to be, just to be a turd, you know what I mean? And so that was me. And so, um, I was very cynical of God. I had some, um, events with. You know, uh, my girlfriend had cancer when she was 16. I had a cousin who died of cancer when he was 16. There were some events in my life that it really made me hard hearted towards God. And the fear of hell never really moved me close to God. I was like, kind of in my mind, like if that's where he wants me to go, which side note, God never sends anybody to hell. They choose that. Yeah. Um, and so I, um. I really was like, you know, fear of hell doesn't make me want to live for God. I don't, you know, if that's his heart that he wants to send me to hell, then I want to serve him anyway. And so that never worked. And, um, my view of God was so jaded by what I saw and some life experiences. And it was not until I encountered the love of Christ. That my life changed, but when I encountered the love of Jesus, and I realized that as bad as I had been towards him, as much as I had even cursed his name, um, and made fun of people who followed him, he still wanted me, and when I realized that, um, the day I got saved, there's a guy preaching, he became a good friend of mine, And he's talking about every sin I was doing, and I'm getting mad, right? I'm like, who is this guy to tell me how I ought to live? And so I was literally getting ready to get up and leave. And as I started to push my chair back, I just felt this impression in my mind. It said, why don't you shut up and listen to me? And in that moment, I can't explain it. In that moment, I realized all I have to do is turn and when I did, God was there and I was like, wow, why would he still be there for me when I've done all this against him? It was almost like Paul on the road to Damascus, like, you know, when Paul is blinded by that light and he says, who are you Lord? Like the last thing he wanted to hear was. I'm Jesus because in that moment he had to think I'm a dead man.

JOHN: 1:10:38

Oh, yeah, I'm undone.

BRANDON: 1:10:39

Yeah, but instead of killing him, Jesus gave him life. And that's what I felt like. It's like I deserve to die and yet he's made me more alive than I've ever been. And so it was the love of God that changed my life. And I think about one of my favorite verses is 2 Corinthians 5 14. Where Paul says Christ's love compels us, um, you know, because Jesus died for all, you know, and, and I'm one of those all, and, uh, but now to be compelled by God's love is so much different than being compelled by, um, some legalistic burden. You know, and, and it's such a different thing and the intimacy of God and the presence of God is something that I never want to lose now. Um, whereas before I could have cared less, you know, I didn't want religion. I wanted a relationship and that was what was in my heart. I just didn't know it. And, um, you know, and I was telling you earlier when I, I went from one day. You know, being very cynical of God and Jesus and The next day, I didn't understand why everybody wasn't wanting to follow Jesus. And so I went from being, um, destructive from a standpoint of cynicism to being destructive from a standpoint of legalism. And I was one of these. I've told people that like if the speed limit was 35, I was going 34, you know, I've, I've

JOHN: 1:12:21

never been that guy. Yeah. Thank

BRANDON: 1:12:24

God you have it and, and, and, you know, and I would, I

JOHN: 1:12:27

would wait, I've been legalistic about stuff. Now don't get me wrong. I have, I have, I've, uh, I've. messed up with, you know, what it means, what God's grace really means, but I've never been that guy that says, Oh, the speed limit is 35. I'm going 34. I've never been that guy. That's how bad

BRANDON: 1:12:44

it got. And I'm not advocating for the fact that grace gives us the right to do anything. Um, but what I am advocating is, is what it says in Titus that grace teaches us to say no to ungodliness. And so when it's the relationship that changes us, and so, but I was so legalistic, man. I was so much, so destructive. I had a passion for the Lord, but I hadn't, and a zeal, but I had no wisdom. And I was really like a bull in a china shop, man. And I'm just, I think I did way more harm than good in those days. And, um, it finally came to a head one night and I was getting worn out and exhausted from trying to be perfect. And, um. It finally came to a head one night where, um, my wife and I were eating at the dinner table. I didn't get saved. I was 24 and we're eating one night and she had fixed like cube steak, mashed potatoes and peas, which makes me really hungry right now. Um, and so she, um, had, had cooked and we're sitting at the dinner table. And as usual, I'm complaining about people who claim to be Christians, but aren't living like Christians. And she said, Brandon, we just have to love them and be patient. And I remember I slammed my hand down on the table. I mean, just like as hard as I could. And I said, that's not good enough. And when I did, there's like English peas rolling across the table and we kind of both just looked at each other like, okay, that's over the top. And I realized that I was kind of at this crossroads of. I'm either going to have to accept God's grace and that he did for me what I can't do for myself, or I'm not going to make it. And that was a defining moment in my life. And there were a couple of books I read, like one of them was What's So Amazing About Grace by Philip Yancey. And that book really impacted my life to help me understand grace. And to help me escape this performance trap of legalism. that robs us of joy. I think about Galatians 2, where Paul says, I do not set aside the grace of God for if, you know, righteousness could be, or justification could be attained, um, through the law, Christ died for nothing

JOHN: 1:15:04

for nothing. That's right. Oh man,

BRANDON: 1:15:06

what a crazy statement to think that Jesus died for nothing and how arrogant of me to think that I could, I could make his death unaffective because of my ability. It's like, how could I ever possibly think that way? But I did.

JOHN: 1:15:25

Yeah. Making little of the cross by doing that. Gosh, man. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, even to talk about the cross. So we have this, we have this, um, interaction, this, this dialogue that happens. Literally while Christ is hanging on the cross with the thief that's there and by God's grace he saved him in that moment when the thief recognized that Jesus was who he was. Yes. Right? Yes. Right. And you know, so we get legalistic on this idea of Understanding the doctrine of sanctification and going through and reading our entire Bible. And we should, you know, I mean, you don't want to run up on Zephaniah when you're in heaven one day and him go, Hey, how'd you like my book? And you'd be like, uh, You wrote a book. I didn't see, you know, and

BRANDON: 1:16:28

that response is kind of like the, the response to the book. I wrote, I wrote a book called a better story. And so that's what every, that's everybody else's response to me when you ask is, yeah, like you wrote a book. And so it's funny every now and then I'll look at my bank account and it'll say like, It's like a deposit of 250 or whatever and I'm like, where did that come from? And it's like content distribution. I'm like, somebody brought a book but yeah, you don't wanna get there and it's like, um, so how did you, how did you like, you know, the, the, what, what, what the Holy Spirit inspired me to write and you're like, tell me who you are again. Yeah, right, right,

JOHN: 1:17:10

right. Yes, I mean, yes. So, we should, we should read, we should read our Bible. It's, it's there. It's, it is our. It is our manual for life, right? And then, this interaction like you and I are having right now, it's how we're taking what we've, what we've gone through, and we've read, and how the Holy Spirit is, is helping us to, to understand it, and then we talk through it, together with another believer, to come to a place where we understand it better, so we can grow closer to God. Like, his goal, through the whole thing, is us having intimacy with him. You know, and, I, I, I mean, you can, you can go back and look at the story of creation. Mm-hmm How God made everything, the, the, the, uh, the order that he made everything in, and he made this world so we would have a domain to live in. Yeah. And his, you know. He did that because out of, out of his love for us, right? Think about, think about bringing, uh, um, think about bringing a new baby home from the, from the hospital, you know, or, or welcoming a new child into your, into your life. Yeah. You make preparation to do that. Yeah. You know, you don't just. You don't just not prepare for it. Now, I mean, of course there are times where, you know, maybe, maybe some people prepare a lot. That's right. And maybe some people just make sure they have somewhere for the thing to sleep, right? The thing. You know, but, um, But regardless, you, you, you try to prepare. So I heard you had the, I heard you had a thing. Congratulations. Yeah. Congrat, congratulations on the, on the thing there, you know, that, that thing. But anyway, it's, um, you know, it's, it's, when we look at that, we can, we can gain a, a, a better understanding of how much he loves us, right. That, that he, he created a place for us that was perfect by the way. And, um, And, and just it's, it's, it is, it's overwhelming to think about it truly is overwhelming to think about, you know, I did a, um, I did a, um, a Bible study, I guess is the best way to, to what, what, what to call it. Um, Um, when I was younger, I was in my 20s and I did it by myself and it was, it was designed to go through with other people, but I just, you know, didn't, didn't have the opportunity to go through it with other people. So I went through it by myself and it was called experiencing God, uh, by Blackaby. And um, man, that, that brought about a radical change in my life because, um, A really close friend of mine. He was my pastor at the time. His name is Wes Moy. Yeah, I know Wes really well. He did more for my spiritual development than anybody has in my entire life. And that's not to, that's not to say, you know, somebody else didn't, wasn't trying or didn't, didn't do the things that they should do. He was, God had him in a place at a time where And I was, I was listening like I had been brought to a place where I was like, okay, this is supposed to be different.

BRANDON: 1:20:38

Yeah. There was kind of a hunger. Yeah. You hunger there. Yeah.

JOHN: 1:20:41

And Wes came alongside me and man, he helped to, to grow me in ways that I didn't even know were possible. Yeah. And I remember going through that study and just this radical change that I had in my life about, you know, What it, what it even looks like. Yeah. Because I, I had no, I had no clue, man. I, I was just, I was just going through life. Yeah. I was just happy to be there.

BRANDON: 1:21:11

Yeah.

JOHN: 1:21:12

You know?

BRANDON: 1:21:12

Well, and, and it's so, it's a little bit daunting and can be intimidating, right. When you look at the Bible and I'm, I'm looking at yours right now. There's a lot of pages there.

JOHN: 1:21:25

Yeah, sure.

BRANDON: 1:21:26

And. To begin to read, and I know for me, it was almost like scripture was just a bunch of disjointed, um, thoughts. And so I, I didn't realize that it all told one story. And you mentioned creation. And, you know, it begins in a perfect place, and when you get to the end of the Bible, it ends in a perfect place. And everything in between is how God, It brings it back to the perfection that he desired and how he rescues the world and redeems the world and, um, brings it back to what he wants it to be. But until you really start reading it and especially in community with other people, um, it doesn't start connecting. And what I found is the longer you read the Bible, it's like these dividers begin to come out of scripture and it all begins to connect and you begin to see, okay, this isn't separated from this, this is actually connected to this, and this is, and it all begins to be one story, um, of all these books written by 40 plus authors that tells one story about one man, Who would come to redeem and, uh, reconcile the earth and the entire creation back to the Father. And, like, the odds of that, the coincidence of that, it, I mean, it takes more faith to me now to not believe it's true than To believe it is true. Well, I mean, that's like,

JOHN: 1:23:07

you know, to look at creation and to believe that it came from a mud puddle. Oh gosh, man. Yeah. You know, that, that takes, yeah, I don't,

BRANDON: 1:23:17

yeah,

JOHN: 1:23:18

like, I don't want to push somebody away, but at the same time, it's like, man, I just, I can't go there. I can't, I can't, I can't fathom that. I can't understand that, you know, how did all these things come from? You know this single cell and even

BRANDON: 1:23:34

that's a leap of faith because it's not fully explainable, right? Like it's not like it's a foolproof scientific thing that we know this happened. I mean, there's still missing parts to it They still don't understand aspects of it. Like how did this happen? We believe this happened, but how did this happen? I mean, we can't even predict the weather for tomorrow. How are you gonna tell me what happened 10 million years ago,

JOHN: 1:23:56

right? Yeah, yeah, I'm

BRANDON: 1:23:58

like You know, I, I just, I have a harder time believing that than I do when I look at creation for me to believe that there's a creation without a creator that borderlines on just sticking my head in the sand and denying what's obvious. I think

JOHN: 1:24:17

so. Yeah, I think it does too. Uh, I'm late, I'm reading a book right now by, um, Lee Strobel. Yes. It's called is, is, uh, is God real? I think is the title of the book. It's, um. I just started reading it. Um, but man, he's, he was, uh, I want to say this, right? I think he was an investigative journalist,

BRANDON: 1:24:40

maybe in Chicago, in Chicago. Yeah.

JOHN: 1:24:43

And, um, has a background in law to some degree, maybe some, some, um, training in law. And, and he, he takes it from a very, you know, It either is or it isn't kind of standpoint and I love that like, man, it's, it's, it's been really cool to read through so far.

BRANDON: 1:25:04

Yeah. You know, Lee Strobel, I believe, you know, he wrote the case for Christ. There's a whole series of books he's written and I love it because the way he approaches it from that investigative standpoint. But I believe, um, this is correct that he started out to disprove Christianity. Right. Yeah. And ended up convincing himself that it was true.

JOHN: 1:25:28

Well, he, he looked at it from a, from, I mean, he was investigating it. Yeah. And I wish I had the book with me right now. I'd, I'd share, you know, his, his, he has a 20 word prayer. He encourages everybody to, to, to pray. He said, even if you don't know who you're praying to. Yeah. I asked this prayer and it's like, um, man, I just, I wish I had it. I'll, I'll, um, I'll have to post something up on, on some social media somewhere, I'll, I'll put it in the comments of, of the, uh, of the podcast here, but it was just, you know, basically, uh, you know, um, If, if you're, if you're real and you want me to know you help, help me to help me to see basically is kind of the, kind of the spirit of the prayer. And, um, he just invites people to come to the table and look at the evidence, you know, he's like, listen, I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other. I went into this. Thinking that I was going to prove that there was not a God, you know, that's what, that's how he started out his quest was he was going to prove there was not. And he said, the evidence just

BRANDON: 1:26:36

is overwhelming.

JOHN: 1:26:37

Yeah, that's exactly right. So I would, I would definitely, I'm not all the way through the book, but I've read enough of it to say I would recommend that book.

BRANDON: 1:26:45

Yeah. And if you want to start with a really short read about that, there's a book called more than a carpenter. And it's, it's a really small book, but it talks about the evidence for Jesus and the proof of Jesus's life, death, and resurrection. And so many things undeniable, you know, Christianity is really, to me, the only religion you don't have to check your mind at the door, um, to believe. Um, it's also the only religion that. That doesn't tell us we have to work our way to God, that God, he came to us, right? Yeah, it's a completely different, um, um, but yeah, I mean, Christianity has, has, and does stand up to the toughest criticisms. Um, you know, and so it's, it's something that, uh, our intellect does, doesn't have to be separated from our faith. When it comes to Jesus.

JOHN: 1:27:51

Yeah. Yeah. You know, so we've talked about, we've talked about lessons from the season. We've talked about how we need to, we need to make pivots throughout hunting season and what that looks like. And because we have a goal in mind, our goal is to, is, is to harvest, you know, to put meat on the table. Right. And to have, have fruit from our, from our labor. And then we've looked at, um, How you and I both have need to make pivots in our, in our lives and in our, in the way we approach God, what we, the way we view God, right. And, and realizing that although we're chasing an animal out there, we don't have to chase God because he's not moving. Right, right. He is, he, he, he is where he is. And he invites us to come to him, right? In fact, he pursues us. Right.

BRANDON: 1:28:48

Yeah, that, that, uh, poem, um, it's called The Hound of Heaven. Yeah. And it talks about God's pursuit of us. I think that is such an incredible thing, especially as a hunter and someone who loves dogs, is to picture God as the Hound of Heaven who is in pursuit of his people that he loves. Um. Cause I know it, man, if it were me, man, like after day seven, they eat that fruit, man, I'm like, I'm just blowing that thing up. I'm like, it only took me seven days to make it. I'll just make a new one. You know what I mean? And like he did, he continued to pursue and he had a plan from before the creation. To reconcile it back to himself. Yeah, that's so amazing.

JOHN: 1:29:39

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's, I think it's, um, it is overwhelming to me to look at it. It's overwhelming to understand the holiness of God. How, how, how he is set apart. He's completely different. He is separate from creation because he is the creator, right? I mean, we can think about. Making something, you know, getting a piece of wood and making something. Well, I never become a part of that creation. Right. Because I made it. Yeah. Um, and, um, you know, so that is kind of a way to look at the holiness of God is that he, like, he's not bound by time. Like we are, you know, it's in it, in it, It can sometimes feel confusing to go through it and to look at it, but at the basis of it all, what we need to understand is he loves us and wants that relationship with us, period. Right? I mean, that, that's something that, that we need to look at. One of my favorite verses is, uh, from the book of Titus. And if you want a book So to pick up and read, read Titus, it's three chapters, it's short and it is rich with how to live, right? And in the book of Titus in chapter three, he says, remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men. And then this is where it really hits the road. It says for we ourselves were also once foolish. Disobedient, deceived, serving various lusts and pleasures, living in malice and envy, hateful and hating one another. But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, everything changed. All right. Yeah. That, that, but, but God stepped in, you know, and so when we look at that. So, when we look at that idea of church and what we expect it to be and, you know, whether we expect it that, that, that we should go in and suit and ties and be picking up a hymn book and singing and worshiping God in that way, or if, if we go in wearing a t shirt and blue jeans, you know, what God's looking at is our heart. That's what he sees. And if we want to be men and women after God's heart, what our desire should be is to. Love what God loves and hate what God hates. That's right. God hates evil. Yeah. God loves people. Yeah. Absolutely. It's that simple. It can be distilled down to that simple of a concept. Yeah. You know, he loves people so much that he, he created a place for us to live. He loved people so much that he sacrificed his son to, Bridge that gulf that there was nothing we could ever do to reach him because he's set apart because he's holy and we are sinful. Right? So something had to happen. Um, so if we can distill it down to that point to where we love, we love people. And we hate and we shun evil, it'll, it'll, it'll change the way we look at life. I know it has for me,

BRANDON: 1:33:00

you know, I mean, even Jesus taking all the law and prophets and summarizing it into two, two commands of love the Lord, your God, with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbor, pretty much exactly what you say, you know, and he made it so simple and not that it's easy, but. Um, with him, it's, it's possible, you

JOHN: 1:33:25

know,

BRANDON: 1:33:25

without him,

JOHN: 1:33:27

it's not, yep, yep, that's right. That's right. All right. Well, good deal. We're going to wrap it up there. Thank you guys so much for listening. And we had a, we had a good time talking about this stuff this morning and really looking at how we can apply so much of life to, um, whether it be hunting or whatever it is, how it all is connected. And it gives us an opportunity to grow, uh, grow in our relationships with each other and, uh, definitely to grow in our relationship with God and just looking, looking for, you know, being, um, being intentional about how we go through life, right? That's kind of the, the point of, of our discussion today is when we are intentional about things, the way that it changes. Uh, everything about who we are, uh, and what God's desire is for our life and, uh, what our desire should be for our life and for the lives of others. Uh, so we appreciate you guys listening and, uh, uh, follow along, comment in the comment section down, uh, in the, uh, in, in the podcast notes there, you can comment there or you can comment on social media. And, uh, let us know what you want us to be talking about. Any topics that you want us to look at, any questions that you've got about anything that we've said. Um, Brandon and I are, we're an open book on this stuff. If you want to, even if you're here local and you wanna come sit down and talk with us.

BRANDON: 1:34:57

Yeah,

JOHN: 1:34:58

man, reach out, you know, and, uh, and let's, let's do it because, um, we, we wanna be intentional about this and, uh, we're just, we're thankful for the opportunity to, to, uh, come into your day with, with, uh, with this discussion. So thanks again for listening, guys. God bless and we'll catch you next time.