Ep. 23 - Trackin’ with the Experts: A Deep Dive into Deer Recovery

Join us for an engaging and insightful episode focused on the fascinating art of deer tracking. Our expert resident tracker, Brandon Williams along with fellow tracker and guest Marty Edge, share their knowledge and experiences from the field. Whether you’re a seasoned hunter or a curious newcomer, discover the significance of understanding deer behavior, the essential roles of tracking dogs, and the first-hand stories that illustrate both the challenges and triumphs faced in the field.

As the conversation unfolds, we dive deep into the relationship between trackers and their dogs, emphasizing how mutual trust and training influence successful tracking. You can find out more about Marty on Facebook @Cutting Edge Boars . If you are located in the Soperton Georgia area and need help locating a deer these are your guys. 

More info on Brandon and his tracking can be found on his socials as well. 

Facebook: Crooked Barrel Tracking Dogs 

Instagram: @crooked_barrell 

Thanks for joining us on The Bowtreader Podcast. Leave a comment to let us know where you are listening from as well as any topics that you would like to hear us cover. Be sure to like the episode and subscribe to follow along. 

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Transcript

Introduction to tracking and the day’s guest

Speaker 1 1:19

Was it January 14th? Yeah, it's been fun, man. Like I said, he's brought some folks in. It's been fun to get to meet them. Like I said, it's just a conversation really, but it's been a lot of fun. I glean from Dub's wisdom Every day. I get to do that every day, every day, every day. So he, he gets real talkative when we feel like it's knowledge, not wisdom.

Speaker 1 1:50

Oh man, I just you use wisdom and uh, but he's, he'll be real tall. We'll talk about bows or something, and and then he starts getting more and more quiet. We start talking about other stuff.

Speaker 2 2:05

Hey, stick with your knowledge base.

Speaker 1 2:07

right, yeah, we're trying to expand that a little bit you know.

Speaker 2 2:12

Proverbs says that you know what is it about being a fool If you keep your mouth shut, sometimes nobody knows essentially. Yeah pretty much that's always been my issue. Sometimes I talk about things I probably shouldn't be talking about you don't know, don't know about so, but anyway, um, but yes it's been fun, but yeah, it's good.

Speaker 1 2:33

Um what?

Speaker 3 2:34

you any instructions for today no, don't say anything stupid, so I don't have to edit it. I don't like editing good luck with that have you had to do that a lot with me okay, no, we don't, we don't edit we just whatever we say we throw it in there and and uh, you know, and put it out for people to listen to. So, yeah, I mean, I think, I think it just makes more sense to do that with a podcast.

Speaker 1 3:04

Yeah, you know, I mean it's just more authentic.

Speaker 3 3:06

You know you're just talking. You know if you make a mistake, you know.

Speaker 2 3:10

I watch quite a few podcasts and I say, watch on, like on YouTube, most everything's Georgia football related and uh, you know, a couple of the guys are really really good and then some of them are really, really pieced together. You know, yeah, like additive. You know it's choppy, yeah, and it's definitely less audibly palatable or whatever. You know, yeah, of course, the one that, and I should, no, I can't, I'm not going to say like one in particular, but it's great, I really enjoy it, but it is kind of pieced together.

Speaker 3 3:47

Yeah, that's one thing we try not to do is throw anybody under the bus. Yeah, right, yeah, because we all got opinions about stuff and you know it just depends on what it is, but yeah it's a fun time for sure.

Speaker 1 4:02

So well guys let's pray together and we'll get rolling here.

Speaker 3 4:06

Father, we love you and we're thankful for the opportunity to be able to come together as men this morning to be able to discuss things about our lives and things that we see that we have the opportunity to do, and what it means or how you're wanting to use those things to, to grow us and draw us closer to you. That, lord, that's the desire of our hearts. We ask you to use our voices this morning and that, uh, whoever listens to this, that, uh, that they'd be drawn closer to you and and uh um realize that, if we can do it, anybody can do it.

Speaker 3 4:44

It's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen, amen, all right. Well, good deal. Well, we got part of the gang here this morning and we got a new guy. So, new guy, tell us who you are, marty Edge. Marty Edge, all right.

Speaker 1 4:59

How do we know Marty Edge? So I've been really excited about this one. Marty I've known now for over three years and he's actually the reason that I track deer now.

Speaker 3 5:13

Okay.

Speaker 1 5:14

And so it's funny. He and I have been friends for a while, but I don't know how much time we've actually spent in each other's presence Together right. Yeah, not a lot probably.

Speaker 1 5:28

Yeah, you count on one hand, easy right, but I consider him a good friend. But it's funny because my youngest son calls him my text friend, kind of like a work spouse, yeah, yeah. So he said, is that your text friend at marty? And I said, yeah, that's, that's him. But, um, but yeah, so I'm really excited to have him here, uh, just to talk some about his experiences, tracking and just just general dear behavior, knowledge and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 6:01

Um, I get a lot of people now who call me to ask me questions, but when I have a question this is who I call. Okay, and he's increased my learning curve by 10, 20 years, probably by bb, able to pick his brain and ask him things. And um, I just tell the quick story of how I actually met marty. Um, and it was interesting. So I guess it was three, three and four deer seasons ago now that, um, my son, oldest son, dake, shot a really nice buck in a field across from our house, shot it with a seven mag. He calls me, he's like dad. I just shot that buck. We knew was it there. He was out in the field chasing does um, we had had him on camera and so he shoots this deer. If y'all hear um heavy breathing, it's not me.

Speaker 3 6:53

There's a dog on my lap, so yeah, um just so you know, mr america's in here yeah hey, pretty girl, um, but uh, anyway, uh, so he calls me.

Speaker 1 7:05

He's like dad, I just shot this deer or I shot at it. I think I missed it. I said what did it do? He said first time I shot, it just squatted down and I, I said it didn't run off and he said no, and I said, well, what'd it do the second time you shot? He said it just kind of walked off in the woods real slow.

Speaker 1 7:23

And I'm like well dake, there's not a deer in the united states, especially a mature buck, that if you shoot at it two times with a high-powered rifle, is probably just gonna walk out of the field like he's not. And so, um, I get there, I start looking and finally I find some just real watery, dark. Um didn't even really look like blood, it was ended up, you know, it was like intestinal, um, blood and so, and we knew not to track it. That night a buddy of mine had a kind of a heat infrared or heat sensing. Uh, it wasn't even a scope, it was more of just uh, I don't know like a almost like a range finder kind of like a monocular, monocular kind of thing.

Speaker 1 8:10

Yeah, and it um, if. If my words don't come really easy, I left the church at like 11 something last night.

Speaker 1 8:16

So it's, uh, just sleep deprivation but um, but anyway, we kind of messed around with that, but we knew not to push the deer. Well, the next day I actually took off work. He shot it on a sunday afternoon. I took off work, took my gps out there, I grid this whole cut over, but this cut over is so thick you can't hardly see in front of your face. And, um, I looked, and even one time I know I smelled this deer, but I couldn't find him.

Speaker 1 8:44

And so by this time 24 hours has gone by, um, the next day, tuesday, um, and they could call marty, and marty was like, um, like I just can't get there. And he had, um, a couple of bulldogs that he tracked with. One was Buster, who passed this season, and another one named Gypsy, who he still has, and a friend of mine had seen him on Facebook and that's how we knew to call Marty. And so he had called and Marty was out of town and he said I don't have anybody that I can even send them with. And so Dake asked me the next day. He said you think I should try to call marty again, and I said, hey, the only thing he could tell you is there ain't no chance or no, I can't come. And we didn't know each other at the time, and so but dake called him and he said if that deer's gut shot like you know, you think he is, there's a chance we can find him.

Speaker 1 9:43

And so he sent a couple of his guys over with his dogs that evening and now they could shot this deer on Sunday at I don't know, it was probably around 530. Marty's guys get there with his dogs. It was probably around 6 o'clock and it was right after dark. Yeah, it was right after dark. Yeah, it was right after dark.

Speaker 3 10:04

We get over there and um what day was this, though they came tuesday, yeah, so this is.

The importance of tracking and deer behavior

Speaker 1 10:10

This is literally going to be almost exactly 48 hours after he shot the deer um, so this is the most incredible. This is why I'm tracking today. Right is because when they got there, they turned Buster and Gypsy out and they go around and they do their business.

Speaker 1 10:30

And then they said, all right, let us walk them in here and we'll see what happens. Well, as soon as they said let us walk them in here, I text two of my friends and I said, hey, dog ground, we're, you know, and so just letting them know. Well, then, 11 minutes later I texted them back and said deer found. So they found that deer in 11 minutes after it'd been 48 hours and it was gut shot, but still like I guess gonna put out some scent, but still, I was mind blown by by how that happened and I told my my sons and I told my wife that day. I said I'm gonna have something that will do that. Yeah, and because I I grow, I've grown up having hunting dolls. I love hunting, I love dolls. So since I was 10 years old I've had beagles, for you know, rabbit hunting, deer hunting, running deer with dolls. I've had all kinds of hunting dolls and when I saw that I was like that's the most amazing thing I've ever seen.

Speaker 1 11:34

I'll have something that'll do that well, they kind of like yeah, whatever, because they usually do with things. I say, and uh, but that was on tuesday, friday morning. I left my house about four in the morning and went to elberton and got the cat the cat who I have now named remo and um, so that's how I got into it and I've been doing it now for three years.

Speaker 1 11:55

Um, I always mess with marty and tell him he's the goat. Um, not the goat, as in the animal, of course, but the greatest of all time, he's the. He's the og. Um, he's how long you've been trying? Since 2000 or 2004.

Speaker 2 12:09

Tracking deer um for hire, we track deer. We got started a little different method than probably most people do, but we started tracking deer for hire in 2006.

Speaker 1 12:20

Yeah, yeah and so again, for me, one marty's just an incredible guy. If you get to know him, you're gonna love him, because he's just that type of guy. He is what he is, there's no errors.

Speaker 1 12:37

Um, he's just a good guy and then the other thing is I've just had a lot of fun um, learning from him and now doing something that I absolutely love because of that night and he wasn't even there, but it was through that that, um, we got connected and so I've been really excited to have him come join us and be able to share. But, um, you know, and one thing I'll say about marty and I find this to be true with most of the trackers I know but one thing that is really true of marty is it's not just about him tallying a number. We all keep up with our numbers, right? We?

Speaker 1 13:21

all like yeah, we all, we all like to see how many we find and compare it to the year before and you know how did the year go. But the biggest thing for marty is I want to help you find a deer. Oh yeah, and I can tell you a lot of the tracks that I go on is because somebody called marty and he couldn't go, or he was watching the georgia game or whatever, and I don't like the Bulldogs quite as much as he does or it's dark, or it's dark yeah, marty told me I'm too old for that.

Speaker 1 13:50

Marty told me this year. He said uh, I said something about why don't you come, let's go track this deer together, because it was not too far from his house or something. And I said why don't we go track this one together? And tonight and he goes, you lost me at tonight he said I've been doing it long enough now.

Speaker 1 14:09

He's like you know, I like daytime and so, but he, he does, he still goes and gets them at night too, but he, uh, he's just been a real blessing in my life and uh, and become a friend um and uh, you mentioned for hire, but I know you don't do it for money, you do it for the love of what you do and helping people we started off tracking so we had um, we shot soybean fields at night for deer and soybeans in the summer before they dry back.

Speaker 2 14:41

You know, waist, waist high, chest high.

Speaker 2 14:43

So you shoot a deer and it falls, you can't find it. So I had a bulldog that I caught hogs with and I started using him. We had a bell on his collar, around his neck, so you could listen to that bell and you could tell when he got the deer. It changes and so that's how we started tracking deer with this bulldog and I found 208 deer with that dog, not including those soybean field deer From, I think. I started, like I said, 06 or 07 in that range somewhere with him and he died December 11, 2016, I think.

Speaker 1 15:21

So he and I made a lot of steps together, a lot of steps. Well, tell us his name.

Speaker 2 15:25

Axel, axel, yes, Axel Axel was.

Speaker 1 15:29

he was kind of renowned in the area.

Speaker 2 15:32

He was well known. He was really a special dog. He was very intelligent, had drive. I don't think I've ever owned another dog hog dog or anything else that had that kind of drive, which are two of the qualities I really like. But when he was young he was as fast. We used to go to a lot of wild hog field trials and they'd have a drag race, and so he never lost the drag race, Like he was the fastest dog there. And so when you run a deer that's wounded and say you, you know, whatever, when you run a deer, he got a lot of deer just simply because he ran them so long and so hard, Like a deer that's barely wounded, he would wind up with a deer where a lot of dogs won't, just because he he just run it in the ground.

Speaker 2 16:19

And man that was. I loved it. I cause people would always call and it's always the same story. I got lung blood and I got this, that and the other, and I got a big chunk of rib bone and I'm like okay, rib bone. So I mean, you got rib bone, you're not looking for the deer, right? That's right, so anyway. So then when I'm four miles down the road and I call them, and say I got your deer.

Speaker 1 16:43

And they're like oh no, not my deer. Oh yeah, that's your deer. Yeah.

Speaker 2 16:45

So and I tell them where I'm at, drop a pin. I realized I figured out how to do that stuff. Now my kids taught me so. Yeah, but used to back then it was a lot harder. I mean, I'd had to explain to somebody where I was at.

Speaker 1 16:56

Yeah and man, yeah, I remember the days when we would run, run deer with dolls, just hunting, you know, and um not tracking but hunting deer, and I remember this is a lot different, you know, I guess, gosh, how long was it 30 years ago?

Speaker 2 17:15

yeah, um no gps till about oh seven or eight yeah and we had the beep beep collars right.

Speaker 1 17:21

You walk out with your big old, with your big old uh tv, and that's what it looked like. You just ripped the old tv antenna off the roof and we're out there that was the only thing I hated about, uh, dog hunting yeah, and you got shot at yeah, I mean, that was the first time you scared the crap out of you.

Speaker 3 17:42

You didn't enjoy that. And then, once it happened a few times, you're just like eh, that's normal. You just hear buckshot coming through the woods.

Speaker 2 17:52

He's jumping the ditch, it's okay, I worked with a guy a couple of years ago. He got shot buckshot. I won't go into detail because he was hit in some pretty bad places.

Speaker 3 18:02

He got hit. Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 18:04

He had like six, seven buckshot pellets went in him yeah.

Speaker 3 18:08

It was really bad places. Yeah, go on man.

Speaker 2 18:11

It was bad, bad. His son shot him. Oh man, he spun and shot the deer and the guy was standing on top of his dog box knocked him off the dog box and everything. It was bad.

Speaker 1 18:22

Yeah, that's rough. Yeah, it's a lot of fun. When I was growing up it was a lot of fun, and even as I got older, but I remember we used to turn I turned 10 dogs out without a collar. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, we didn't have collars. Well, we had collars.

Speaker 3 18:42

We had collars on the dogs, but we never had tracking collars. You know I was thinking about it. We're a Garmin dealer, so we had a guy come in last year wanting to get some new tracking collars. I asked him what he was using them for and he said they run deer dogs.

Speaker 1 19:00

I was like man we'd have been dangerous with this.

Speaker 3 19:03

I mean, the deer would have had no chance if we'd have known exactly where the dog was. Because you're going off of just listening. We had one dog, we had a beagle. His name was Raymond that dog. He got bit by a rattlesnake one summer and he lost on one side. He lost everything on his face right there and like when, when he would just be sitting there you could see his teeth and stuff wow but that dog, he was tough man and he is like, after that happened it's like he was better, yeah I mean and he would.

Speaker 3 19:39

Just he would run and you had to, he would come back. You know, he was one of those that was that would come back to you, but the deer was still there. I mean he wasn't stopping, I mean it was crazy, it was crazy, but anyway.

Speaker 1 19:56

We turned out all his dogs. We didn't know and nobody cared. Back then, you know, it was a lot different. And then we got the beep, beep callers and you know, like you said, yeah, like you, out there with a oh, I was a doctor with that thing for a while.

Speaker 2 20:08

I mean, in hog hunting everything's about speed, especially when I started. We ran greedy dogs, which meant more times, not they caught the hog, regardless of where he was at, so it was. It was important to get there as quickly as possible, so it paid to be good with that thing, yeah.

Personal deer tracking stories and lessons learned

Speaker 1 20:24

Yeah, you learn how to adjust it so that you know by what you know number you're on about how far turn it on, hit a few beats and know which way you need to go and get closer. And of course, tracking I never. Or and hog hunting I never did that.

Speaker 2 20:44

Once I had the gps and that kind of thing. Well, when you, you also learn like what, like with gps, I find deer, I wouldn't find any other way, because I mean the dog does his part, but you help the dog as well. I mean it's a lot of its handler too. You, I can look on my gps and say, well, the dog's struggling in this area, or whatever. I mean there's a lot of different scenarios that play out. But uh, yeah, you can, you can help that dog yeah.

Speaker 3 21:02

So what you're saying is gps is a game changer.

Speaker 2 21:04

Oh, absolutely yeah if something happened to the satellites tomorrow, I'd sell all the dogs I got.

Speaker 1 21:10

I'm out, I quit at this point when you now if, if we never knew yeah, it's kind of like if you never knew what these donuts sitting in front of me tasted. Like you wouldn't have a problem with the box just stay closed, you know but now that I know what a donut tastes like, it's hard to not eat them. Same thing with the GPS. If I'd never known what it was then I'd be fine. But I don't know how anybody tracked like we do today before you had some type of tracking.

Speaker 3 21:40

We would run coon dogs with no kind of tracking.

Speaker 1 21:42

Oh yeah, we did the same thing, and, and I mean that's the same thing.

Speaker 2 21:44

That's like running hogs, it's helpful when you got an open dog like a hound, because you know at least which direction he's going. Oh yeah, but I turn out a bulldog like a track deer. So I started with the bale, so I know which way he's going. They don't bark. No, they don't bark, they don't bark at all.

Speaker 1 22:00

So he gets out of sight and you have no idea.

Speaker 2 22:03

if he circled back behind you he might be four miles. I had actually had that happen to me this year. I had a collar quit on a dog. I almost lost my gypsy dog because of it. And man, it's different.

Speaker 3 22:14

I guess I never thought about that because with that hound dog he's rattling the trees. Once. Once he gets in there and he's on a coon, you just go to the sound.

Speaker 1 22:23

You go to the sound, go to the bark, yeah.

Speaker 2 22:25

And even along. Even if he goes two miles, you can be going in the direction he's going all the while, because you can hear him Right. Yeah, silent dogs.

Speaker 1 22:36

And like with Marty's too. I mean his don't bark, Yours don't bark on the trail or when they get to the deer, Because both of his dolls, you know, Buster passed, but now you've got the gypsy and you've got the blue doll. And so. But when they get there, they're not barking, they're attacking. You know, if that deer's alive, they're going to grab him and hold him until Marty gets there.

Speaker 3 23:11

And for me, I do have remo who bathes, so that's helpful, right, and I know if he bathes like once he like, once he finds the deer, that's the only time he's gonna bark.

Speaker 1 23:15

He will not bark unless he's looking at the deer and the deer's how'd you teach him to do that?

Speaker 3 23:20

y'all just kind of had a real good meeting one day.

Speaker 1 23:24

Yeah, I just told him, I said reemo, son, if you want to hang around here, then you cannot bark until you see this deer. That's right, and he done, he's done. No, it's just what he did, he learned he's a smart dog, yeah and he learned and, um, that's just what he does. Now I've got a bulldog and I've got a black-mouthed curr that I take too, and he's a puppy.

Speaker 3 23:49

When they get there, there is no barking that dog was gonna be good, though, that black mouth that you got he might be special so he, um yeah he.

Speaker 1 23:59

He ended up doing real well at the end of the year that's that the key is the learning curve on a dog.

Speaker 2 24:05

So in hog hunting I've had dogs that start really good and just kind of plateau, or the best hog dog I ever had started really slow. He was probably over two years old and I was like I don't know about this dog and he wound up being phenomenal. But the learning thing like you were talking about with Remo, the axle dog I had when he got old and I guess he just figured this thing out, so if he had a deer caught he would bay it.

Speaker 2 24:34

Because it might take me 10 or 15 or 20 minutes, just depending on how far he is in the situation but he would bay it and then when I got there he'd catch.

Speaker 2 24:42

And one of the coolest things that I ever that ever happened to me with that dog. I had a. I had a bunch of really neat stories but one of them he tracked the deer way off, showed tree when I the creek was flooded took me probably 20 or 30 minutes to get there. He was like two and a half miles. So when I get there to him, the creek's flooded so I'm sloshing through water. I hear him barking. Well, I get within 150 yards he quits barking. So as I'm coming through the water it's kind of an open bottom. I get where I can see him out in the creek and he's on a stump just like huddled or kind of like his front legs wrapped around it, like he's hanging on.

Speaker 1 25:21

He's old.

Speaker 2 25:24

He's kind of wore out at this point in his life and career, anyway. So when I get to him he's not barking anymore, he's just laying there. So I called him. I told him to come to me. I thought he's lost the deer. He had him caught in the creek, the dogs wore out, the deer got off, whatever end of story. So I called him so I caught it.

Speaker 2 25:40

He wouldn't come to me. So and he minded really well like I could, whatever I said he would do and anyway. But he wouldn't come to me and I caught him two or three times and was frustrated because I'm like now I got to strip down and go out here across this creek and it's cold. I mean it's deer season, you know it's cold. So I go out there and right when I get to him to grab his collar, I'm like chest, deep water. I can see white under the water and he's there with the deer. He wouldn't leave it. He knew that deer and that's what he was doing.

Speaker 2 26:08

He was letting me know where he was at and then when he heard me sloshing in the water, he quits because he knew I'm going to find him. He probably didn't understand the finer points of GPS, but he knew I'm coming. But he probably could have read that guy's coming, yeah, but uh, yeah, and I mean, if he'd have came to me I'd just miss that deer.

Speaker 1 26:27

I had no idea the deer was under the water yeah, it's, it's interesting too, I mean, and because you have the camaraderie with the dogs, oh yeah, and you learn their behavior and you can tell, like for remo now, if, if Daisy the bulldog I got from you she's a white bulldog or the black-mouthed cur his name's Crook if they find that deer, they're going to be there, they're going to eat on it. Until I get there, remo will go find that deer, he'll sit there for a second and on the GPS it'll show tree and he'll sit there for a few minutes or a minute or two and then he comes back to me and walks me to the deer, and so every one of them is different. But if, if he shows tree for a few seconds 30 seconds to a minute and then he comes back to me, that deer's were wherever he stopped, that's part of the reason that I like the bulldogs.

Speaker 2 27:22

So the buster dog I had, he would go to it for a long time. If the deer was not gut shot, if he was just whatever shot, he would go to the deer and he'd leave it and a couple of deer almost met. Well, I may have missed some deer early in his tenure, but as time went on I realized what he was doing. Now if his gut shot he'd stay with it and I don't understand exactly why some of that was. Maybe he's chewing it, whatever, I'm not sure, but anyway. So each dog is different. But the reason that I like the bulldog is because it eliminates some of the baying and hunters want to get in and try to shoot a deer. That's wounded and that's dangerous and it's dangerous for you, it's dangerous for them. It that's dangerous, it's dangerous for you, it's dangerous for them, it's dangerous for the deer, the dog, everybody involved. So if I got a bulldog and he'll catch that deer, I can get my hands on him. You know I can.

Speaker 1 28:09

I can end him up and that's the thing, too, that I have to do a lot of times, is, you know?

Speaker 1 28:15

be very clear when we get there that I'm the one who carries the gun Right, because if that deer is not caught, good or whatever, then I don't want somebody shooting my dogs, right. And and you know, and one of the things marty taught me is like you just got to tell them what the way it's, the way it's going to work, and if they don't want to do that, then give them somebody else's number or whatever. But you know and, and I've had some people that kind of were like, well, I mean, I I'm not gonna shoot. I'm like I know you're not gonna shoot my dog because you're not gonna take a gun and uh, that one guy get out with a tall boy bud light and a

Speaker 2 28:53

shotgun and I'm like yeah, the reason I don't like track deer not yeah, this is not, that's not gonna work.

Speaker 1 28:58

And so and he goes oh, I wasn't gonna shoot the deer with the gun. I'm'm like, well, you're going to swing it like a baseball bat. What were you going to?

Speaker 3 29:05

do with it. This is my machete. Yeah, yeah, that's right and so yeah.

Speaker 1 29:12

And it's interesting. But you know, you run into all kinds of people, right, and most of them are great, great, but then every now and then you run into that turd.

Speaker 2 29:22

You know what I mean? Yep, 100%. It really makes it difficult and I've learned through the years, like I've been doing this a while, I don't know I probably. I wish I'd totaled it up but I probably found about 600 deer, yeah, and five Anyway. But I've done enough and run into enough people, like a lot of times I catch those on the phone call and I've just at the point in my life if you're that guy, I'm just going to pass you along.

Speaker 1 29:51

I'm going to try to help you. He's going to send them to me.

Speaker 2 29:52

Yeah, that's right, I'm going to send them to Brandon. I'm like, hey, brandon, I got it. And most of the time I'll say, hey, I just can't and find. If he don't find, you know, yeah, but I'm just not. I mean, I just, and so I don't have the. I love it, but but I would, I'll go quicker to a, an eight-year-old than I will. A 150 inch deer, I mean, I just it's more important to me. I love people. Inevitably, when I find a deer, no matter how big he is, what do they say?

Speaker 1 30:21

I thought he was bigger than that, absolutely, it doesn't matter if he's 150 there's always some uh, there's ground shrinkage, always ground shrinkage, yep well, and there's two things, and I've told you all this before, but two things everybody tells you when they call you is he's a good one. Yeah, and I hit him hard, yeah, and I can't tell you how many times he mule kicked. I know he's. I hit him in in the he mule kicked. I know I hit him in the heart. He mule kicked. And I'm like you might not even hit that deer buddy.

Speaker 2 30:49

That's usually more times than not when I see that that's some kind of front-end damage on that mule kick. I know people shoot them all the time. They mule kick and they're dead right there. I get that, but when you're on the phone with me more times than not he's not hit well On occasion. There is I found a deer this year that was 39 feet I mean.

Speaker 3 31:07

They just couldn't find him Like, yeah, 39 feet.

Speaker 2 31:10

Yeah, he just came off in the woods and it's thick. There's no blood. They don't know where the deer went. You know no idea.

Speaker 1 31:15

I found one that went, I mean literally 20 yards. Good friend of mine and I and we're out there walking to where he said the deer went and the dogs are showing tree over there to my left about 20 yards, and I look over there and there's this big eight point laying over on the side and I'm like there's your deer right there he's like dang, I didn't think that deer went that way, and so I mean that was the easiest track I've ever, that we didn't ever even go to where he thought the deer was.

Speaker 2 31:42

Best dog man I've ever known in my life. A good friend of mine called me and you have to know this guy. Great guy I mean forgot more about dogs than I'll ever know. I mean this guy. As a matter of fact, his birthday should be the next day or two. He should be 78. Wow, and probably still hunting. I hadn't talked to him in a few months, but anyway, called eight. Wow, and uh, probably still hunting. I hadn't talked to him in a few months, but uh, anyway, called me one day to track his grandson's deer. And you would have to know this guy to know the amount of pride he had swallowed. Do that. Yeah, because he had a few dogs that would track deer and all that, but it's his grandson, grandson's first deer. Find this deer, and uh.

Dealing with challenging deer shots and injuries

Speaker 2 32:20

So I went over there and they were hunting like a, like a logging road or whatever, and all the deer, several deer he had shot and it all ran to the left but I couldn't find any blood to the left. When I got there and started walking down the logging road, I saw the deer. The deer had ran, the hit deer had ran straight down the logging road 50 yards, laying in the. But he weren't looking for it there. You know, yeah, and man it got off with him and I know it did and I didn't. I mean, you know, obviously he's a great friend of mine, I think a lot of him. But uh, I mean, it's just that easy sometimes if you're looking in the wrong place, you just your eyes won't see it if it's there yeah, I've, I've.

Speaker 3 32:58

Um, you say that we, we've got a guy that hunts on our place and he called me me one evening and said that he had killed a deer.

Speaker 3 33:09

So we went to help him or whatever, and we rode down there on side-by-side and as soon as we pull up the lights at the side-by-side hit the eyes of the deer and he had gotten down out of a stand. He's 85, 84 at this point. He said well, I don't know if I got him or not. And he said when my arrow went through him, he said it slowed down a lot when it hit the deer and it just kind of fell out the other side. I said well, it went through him. I said that's the goal, that's what we want. He said yeah, he had just gotten down. He said him, you know? I said that's that's the, that's the goal, that's what we want. He said yeah, he said he had just gotten down. He said you know, he was looking at his arrow. He said I guess I got pretty good blood. I said the deer's right there. He said what, that's good stuff yeah yeah but it happens to everybody too.

Speaker 2 33:56

You know, I mean that's, that's something I and, and um, I know I obviously y'all brandon bowhunts, I'm guessing that y'all do too.

Speaker 3 34:05

No, no, no, I don't bow hunt at all.

Speaker 1 34:07

He just sells them, I just sell them.

Speaker 2 34:09

There you go, you can go sit in a tree for a couple hours hey sometimes that's what you need to do in life, yeah.

Speaker 3 34:16

Sometimes the best way to ruin an afternoon is shoot something.

Speaker 2 34:19

Yeah right, right. I very seldom deer hunt, but when I do, that's usually what I wind up doing. I'm like man, if I shoot this deer, I gotta clean, I gotta go find it and clean it and do this and I'm like nah I just won't shoot it.

Speaker 1 34:31

That's right. Though how many did you kill this year? Uh, I ended up killing five. Five john dang, I didn't mean to. I didn't mean to bring that.

Speaker 3 34:42

Well, I actually did I can't wait till he calls me one day and says, hey, can you come help me find this deer?

Speaker 1 34:50

yeah, right, yeah, yeah, I can't wait.

Speaker 3 34:53

I can't wait, so, and I'm gonna walk 10 feet and be like brandon. This ain't the one you killed, because I know you missed somebody killed a deer right here.

Speaker 1 35:01

You know, oh gosh, but that does happen um one of two things. Somebody, inevitably every year, or somebody will think that's not the deer I shot. Oh yeah, oh yeah. And then I found.

Speaker 2 35:13

I found wrong deer. Like legitimate wrong deer, yes. So one of one of the deer I found, um guy called me. This was, uh, so with archery people it's different. Most of the time they're better hunters, but a lot of times that pride like I know what I saw and sometimes you do, sometimes you don't, but this guy was a bow hunter. I could tell, being on the phone with him. Now he shot the deer with a rifle. But he was a bow hunter. I could tell, being on the phone with him, he shot the deer with a rifle. He's a bow hunter. Um, I could tell, being on the phone with him, he's very experienced. Uh, probably wouldn't have taken the call otherwise.

Speaker 2 35:49

Long story short, I go there's one drop of blood, put the dog on it. We work down in the bottom. The dog jumps, a deer runs it down, catches it. I run out there, stick it, kill the deer. They'll get the guy come back. He's like that's not deer I shot. I'm like, okay, okay, well, and the deer's in, get the guy come back. He's like that's not the deer I shot. I'm like, okay, well, and the deer's in velvet. So this is gun season September wait.

Speaker 2 36:09

October. Yeah, this is second week of gun season. Yeah, he's missing his.

Speaker 1 36:17

Male parts. Yeah, his male parts. I've seen that too.

Speaker 2 36:21

So when I rolled a deer over, he's got a big gaping wound in his chest where he's been shot, but it's old Probably my guess is archery and it's rotted out and he's kept it clean because it wasn't oozing. But it anyway, long story short, I killed it Like. So I'm like this is not the deer that he shot a couple of hours ago Like legit, it wasn't the deer.

Speaker 2 36:40

It wasn't the deer. But so I told the guy because he's pretty experienced, and I was like look, the deer you shot is more than likely going to bed where we jumped this deer. I mean, it's just they're kind of creatures of habit and they tend to follow trends and stuff. So I said check back in a few days, whatever. So he called me. One day short, one day short of three weeks, 20 days, he called me and said I found that deer. And I was like yeah, where was he? And he's like he's still alive, but he's still bleeding. And I'm like no, no, no, not still bleeding. I mean, you know, three weeks, bro, he's not bleeding. So anyway, but he was insistent and, like I said, the guy's pretty knowledgeable.

Speaker 2 37:25

So it was on a Friday afternoon. I got off work. I was like, eh, what the heck? So I took the dogs, went this is Buster Took him, went, put down. Sure enough, there's blood there. So as soon as I put down, the dog goes 120 yards or so and catches the deer. The deer's not far. When he shot him that morning he had grazed. He shot him quarter and two, two and he had missed the close shoulder. Grazed under the deer's belly you could see where the bullet had run and hit his back leg about the knee and broke it on the on the far side, and so that bone in the bottom of that leg was sharp and it it was still poking in enough that I mean he weren't bleeding, but it was a drop it was fresh.

Speaker 3 38:05

It just wasn't healing right.

Speaker 2 38:07

Wasn't healing right, yeah, and probably wasn probably wasn't going to in that scenario, but yeah, so I caught him, I killed deer and that's three weeks on the track.

Speaker 1 38:17

That's pretty good.

Speaker 2 38:18

That ain't the kind of stuff that happens every day, you know, and I got me and my wife talk about it all the time. She wants me to write a book. I'm like man, I don't think that's in my wheelhouse, but um but you tell the stories, I'll write it. Yeah, I'll be described I would love for people to hear these kinds of things because they're unusual, I mean, it's not typical stuff and um.

Speaker 1 38:40

But that's what.

Speaker 2 38:41

That's what makes you fall in love with it, right, right because stuff happens that you were like that was, that was cool, right.

Speaker 1 38:49

you know and I've had a couple that the the best ones are when the dolls catch that deer and you take off running and the hunter is like what the crap's happening, yeah, and then they, they, they come with you, yeah, yeah, and you get there and you, you grab deer and you stab it and kill it and you turn around and their eyes are like big as silver dollars. And I had one guy last year he had told me he said I shot this deer and I said he said A good shot.

Speaker 1 39:22

Oh it's a good one and I hit him hard Long blood and rib bone.

Speaker 1 39:26

Yeah, long blood and rib bone. And so he said I shot this deer. I know he went and it was a great morning too. I was actually in a tree when he called. He said I know he only went about 120 yards. I heard him crash and he said but it's thick, I don't want to miss him. Could you bring your dolls? This is a good friend of mine. He said I'd love to see the dolls work too. I said, yeah, I'll bring them. Well, I took Remo and Daisy and I put them out. There wasn't hardly any blood, which was unusual because of what it ended up being. They go in there and they get to 100, 150, right about 200 yards remo starts baying and I get in there and daisy's trying to catch this deer where he has shot both front legs on this deer and his deer is still. You know he is still very alive and he is.

Speaker 3 40:24

He's trying to kill daisy and not so shot him to the point that like cut them off or broke them off. They were both broken yeah it was basically, he was done.

Speaker 1 40:34

But he was just.

Speaker 3 40:35

But that deer could have lived, you know, a year.

Speaker 1 40:38

He would have suffered for a while.

Speaker 2 40:41

Probably coyotes, I figure bulldogs can catch him, coyotes can kill him. Oh yeah, I see a lot of stuff with different magazines and stuff where coyotes catch deer and people like they're predation or what they're not. I promise you there's never been a coyote or a group of coyotes that wants to catch an unwounded 150-pound deer. That doesn't happen. Phones yeah oh sure.

Speaker 3 41:03

Yeah, but that buck, that's 150 plus. Oh sure, yeah, but that buck, that's 150 plus. Even that doe, that's 120 pounds.

Speaker 2 41:07

They don't want to mess with that doe, I use two bulldogs typically for this reason, but two bulldogs have their hands full.

Speaker 1 41:13

Yes.

Speaker 2 41:14

And I've seen dogs catching, kill coyotes. You know what.

Speaker 1 41:16

I mean Right yeah.

Speaker 2 41:17

So it's a different level there.

Speaker 1 41:18

Yeah, and so, anyway, they start, remo starts baying, I take off running, he comes behind me and, uh, they ended up finally catching him. He broke and ran. They finally catch him, or bait him up in a road. I get there, um, I was gonna shoot him, and I I've killed. I've killed one deer that we've tracked with a pistol, and that was because he was swimming away from me this year in a pond.

Speaker 1 41:44

Others killed with a knife, which is what Marty does, and that's why I do. What I do is because that's what he does. And so, anyway, they get in the road, I pull my gun out to shoot the deer, and then the bulldog catches him. So I put my gun back, pull my knife out. Well then, she's holding on to me, she ain't but 35 pounds, she's just gritty. And so he drags her, literally is dragging her off into the swamp or into the creek. And so I just I dropped my, my, um, my knife, and I'll go in there with the gun.

Speaker 1 42:23

At this point I'm like I'm I'm tired. This has been going on for 10 minutes and so I'm like, I go in there and, um the deer, finally I get a shot, and I think I shot him right in the side of the head with a 22 magna, eyes rolled back, he fell over. I was like, all right, that's done and I'm sweated down. It's the kind of early season you know and I'm like so I go, I'm going to get my, I'm going to get my knife. And so I walk out in the road to get my knife bend down to pick it up and the hunter he starts Brandon, brandon, brandon. I turn around the deer's back on his feet, going again, and the bulldogs got him again trying to hold him, and so I just went running and by this time you probably don't do this, marty, because you're a better human being than I am but I just got mad. Like I just get mad at it.

Speaker 2 43:10

No, I never get mad. Yeah, it's not in my blood, it's not in your blood.

Speaker 1 43:14

Well, I finally just go and I'm like heck with this and I threw the gun down and just I'm like why are you throwing your tools in the dirt? That's two tools you've been doing well, because at this point I'm like heck with the gun. Like this I'm getting it done. You know, I've actually got a picture he took of me on that deer killing it. But when, after I killed the deer, he, uh, I turned around and he his eyes, I swear they were as big as the bottom of this coffee cup and he looked at me and I'm not going to say exactly what he said, but you can kind of fill in the blanks. He goes I ain't never seen no crap like this and we get in the truck and he's like that's the most exhilarating thing I've ever been a part of it's adrenaline, man.

Speaker 2 44:05

That's why hog hunting is the same way and people don't understand it and a lot of people are hog hunting and they'll tag along. But there's that step between getting to a hog that's bait, a big hog. There's a space in there, a couple of feet to where you have to commit to put your hands on him. There's nothing in the world that's adrenaline like that to me. And the deer is the same way, like there's that point where you commit, because when you there's a point where you still have you can disengage, yeah, but when you put your hands on him you better, there's no more disengaging.

The unique bond between trackers and their dogs

Speaker 2 44:42

It's you and him and you and you got to take care of business and that's a lot of adrenaline. You're talking about the hunters and that is part of it. I guess that's pride probably playing in or whatever. Like I enjoy that part of it. The track that I took this year where I almost lost Gypsy those guys I had tracked deer a couple of times for before and live deer and they had been with me last week anyway. So when I get there it's the evening and they've they've been enjoying the evening and uh, one of them's like hey, there's tarzan, they call me tarzan and so, anyway, just stuff like that that adds, you know, there's adrenaline, there's that part, I guess, of your pride that plays into it too, of somebody recognizing what a, what a cool thing this is, you know. So, yeah, it's a lot of fun, fun to be able to experience those things.

Speaker 3 45:30

So you've been doing this since 06. So what you're saying is now you've got people that make bad shots on deer just because they want you to come out and jump on the deer.

Speaker 2 45:37

Yeah, so I've got a really good friend in Savannah that hunts a place. As a matter of fact, I talk about tracking deer at night. This is a guy, not a lot of people, but he calls me. I go Like I don't send anybody unless I'm not there, but I'll go. A guy named Ray Darley, yeah.

Speaker 1 45:52

I met Ray. That's right. I was out of town. I tried to couple of him because you were out, that's right. Yep, ray's a good guy.

Speaker 2 45:56

Ray's a great guy, and so Ray will call me, like usually before the deer season. Text ray and I'll be like man. I'm starting to wonder if we're not friends anymore we were in that text thread.

Speaker 1 46:09

Y'all were going back and forth that's right.

Speaker 2 46:11

I gave him a hard time and and you know and that's kind of part of it too is you build relationships through the year. So through you know, 20 years of tracking deer and I build a lot of relationships and I act like like brandon and I mean, but I got tons of relationships so you're saying I'm just one of many yeah, I thought I was special, yeah well, not everybody tracks with my, with my breed of dogs, and all too so.

Speaker 2 46:33

Actually, the blue dog I've been using is actually a litter mate, brother to the. What's her name?

Speaker 1 46:38

daisy the white dog I got yeah white dog.

Speaker 2 46:40

So yeah, but he's. He's got way less experience. I just started him this year.

Speaker 1 46:46

Yeah, ray's a good guy. I went and tracked a doe for him last year. I think you were out of town. It was a cool one too. He called me and I was probably 400 yards in there. He was like just come on out, brandon, I hate to leave a deer, but I don't want you having to. He's just a super nice guy. And about the time I hung up the phone, remo started baying, yeah, and I went and I was able to get that one. But then that drag, and it was a doe too. So you know it's harder to drag a doe to me than a buck for sure.

Speaker 1 47:24

I think I drug that deer about 400 or 500 yards.

Speaker 3 47:27

I ain't dragging deer anymore.

Speaker 2 47:30

I'm serious. That's why I had kids.

Speaker 3 47:32

I ain't dragging them anymore. I'm cutting them up. I will not. Go ahead and tell the story.

Speaker 2 47:41

I will say this I don't always carry my four-wheeler, but through hog hunting, there's nowhere that four-wheeler won't go. Everybody's like yeah-wheeler won't go. Yeah, I mean, I'm a little. I mean like everybody's like yeah, but you don't understand this is thick, I'll put it there. Yeah, it'll go yeah, and I mean it keeps you from dragging. And a lot of times, if I know I got a deer that's going to be alive or different things you know.

Speaker 3 47:58

Like that I'll carry my four-wheeler and I'll haul a deer out for somebody, because I would absolutely love to see you take a four-wheeler in some spots on my property where I've killed deer. They'll go.

Speaker 2 48:07

I've been hog hunting. I promise you, like you ain't seen thick until you've hog hunted, because a hog, when he bays up, it's not out in the middle of the road and it's nasty Now. That being said, this year's different. Like we caught a bull hog about 175 pounds two weekends ago and me and the guy we sat on the hill and plotted for about two hours on how to go get him.

Speaker 3 48:32

Because all the trees down.

Speaker 2 48:33

Because of the dadgum trees. Because of the storm right, Because you get in a creek bottom, you cross the creek, but there's so many trees down, I mean, and when they start dying a little bit you can break the tops and all out of them with the four-wheeler.

Speaker 3 48:48

But right now. You just can't, no, you can't do nothing with them right now, right right, and some of the trees are just big.

Speaker 1 48:52

Big right, they're hardwoods. It might be three foot across. I mean that's why. It's tough.

Speaker 3 49:03

It is heartbreaking to go to some of these creek bottoms. Oh, you know, 100 years old. Yeah, at least 100 years old. Yeah, I was on one. I went through a place the other day and I was shocked that this place got hit because it's close to here, like when you get over towards Tombs County, tattnall County, stuff like that, like you expect to see it over there. You get up towards Evans, you expect to see it up there, cause that's just kind of the path of that storm Right, and we got a little bit here, you know, here and there. But, um, anyway, I went through there the other day and I was like man, this I've hunted high school, you know, that's when I fell in love with dogs was running.

Speaker 2 49:53

You from Bullitt.

Speaker 3 49:54

Yeah, running deer hounds and running coon hounds, and that's when I fell in love with dogs and then I started bird hunting and stuff like that. So I mean I'm chin deep in loving dogs.

Speaker 2 50:06

So the funny thing, like for my hunting, my dad doesn't hunt at all. So my brother and I are both real outdoorsy type folks. Now he likes to fish and stuff and mostly I think his bigger thing is probably duck hunting, but he's killed some really really fine deer too, but our dad doesn't hunt. So I had some buddies that started deer hunting or that were deer hunting. You know, back in the early 80s I mean we just were starting a deer season in troopland county. So anyway, long story short, I learned my dad he didn't care if we hunted so he let us go hunting.

Speaker 2 50:41

So for when I got a little older, like in high school, my dad's a workaholic. Like he wants to work all day, he wants to cut firewood, whatever, like we busy, busy, busy. But he didn't care if I hunted. So there was a lot of days that I would go to the deer stand and lay down and go to sleep on the ground just to not have to work that was how my hunting started, and so I mean not always did your dad ever know that I told him that, yeah, later.

Speaker 3 51:03

So uh, not then obviously you ain't doing that crap, are you?

Speaker 2 51:12

oh my gosh.

Speaker 3 51:13

So you're, you're a first generation hunter. Now, yep, yep, so did your grandpa hunt, or anything I mean.

Speaker 2 51:20

So you're like, you and your brother, just one brother, or I just have one brother yeah so he's five years younger than me and, um, he didn't hunt a lot as a as a kid. Actually, when he was probably 12 or 13, we had we, I had a 30, 30 and um, he was going hunting one evening and it went off and he shot a hole in the house and I don't think he picked up a gun for six or seven how old?

Speaker 1 51:47

was he he was probably 12 or 13 okay okay and um yeah, you know you had to decock it it was a lever action, right yeah?

Speaker 2 51:54

yeah no safeties or anything like that. So I don't think he touched a gun for quite a few years after that and when I started hog hunting, I don't remember he was in college over here, he graduated from georgia southern and uh, we, he started messing around doing that and anyway, I don't remember he was in college over here, he graduated from georgia southern and uh, we, he started messing around doing that and anyway, I don't know exactly how his hunting journey went per se, but uh, yeah, that's that's when I guess he started hunting, probably around college age so 1920 21 somewhere in there is when he really kind of got.

Speaker 2 52:23

I started when I was 13, I hunted an entire year deer hunted an entire year and never saw a deer, which wasn't all that uncommon in the 80s, you know, because they brought deer into Troopland County in 1979, and they dropped some out in a couple of different places and you can look that kind of stuff up Anyway. So when I started hunting you could only kill one antler deer and one antlerless deer and the doe doe. There's only four or five days a year that you could shoot a doe and uh, so yeah, the first year I didn't see any. The second year, and I'm pretty sure this was illegal, but um, I killed three deer opening day, didn't realize it that I had killed the third one. At the time it was in cut corn and when she fell I couldn't see her, but um, it was a doe in two yearlings and that was the first deer I ever killed.

Speaker 2 53:08

I killed them three with a lever action 30-30.

Speaker 1 53:10

I love riflemen had to reload. There you go, man, that's good stuff. So when you started tracking deer, basically the way you got into stabbing them versus shooting them is because you had been hog hunting, right, and that's how you did hog hunting well, the bulldog.

Speaker 2 53:31

So I've always used the bulldog, so when he catches a live deer, he's hard to shoot, I mean yeah because you don't want to shoot your dog, absolutely. You know like, so we're not standing there just like hey, let's, let's all hang out here. Let me give you a good.

Speaker 3 53:42

They're not saying hey let's talk about this, now that deer is trying to live and that dog's trying to, you know, make that deer not live right Right right. But you know so y'all talk about. You know, whenever you're going on a track you tell the hunter leave your gun at the truck. Bring your beer if you got to, but leave your gun at the truck.

Speaker 2 54:02

I really like to carry somebody with me to talk to them while I'm tracking. That's 100, okay that's my date.

Speaker 1 54:07

Doesn't go with me anymore because he always he knows, he knows you're gonna he big. He's the distraction you know, and and some people are like they're real understanding where you say, right, hey, let me go in here, I'll call you in a second. That's what a lot of times I'll say, I'll call you in a second.

Speaker 2 54:25

I get out of sight. I'm gone. I'm gone.

Speaker 1 54:27

Yes, and and yes, and I have actually people who get in the way. I have actually led them 100 yards the other direction, left them and come back and got back on the track. Right, because it's just they just didn't. It's hard, right? Yeah?

Speaker 2 54:42

And so and they have good intentions, but you called me for a reason Cause I, this is what I do.

Speaker 1 54:47

I know what I'm doing, let me do it I mean it's like you told me, if you could find it, you'd already found it. You'd already found it, right.

Speaker 2 54:53

So let me have my shot at it and let me do it the way I want to do it. Yeah, and you know, more time I mean times than not I mean I've seen it, I've tracked a lot of deer and, uh, still see, still see different things, you know, I mean, like I said that I'm like, well, I didn't expect that so why did you get into it?

Speaker 3 55:15

I mean so I you, you said you, you started out, you were, you were hog hunting, which is a lot of fun, I get that right. That's a lot of fun to go. Listen, if you listen and you've never gone hog hunting with dogs you got to do it.

Speaker 1 55:31

Just don't take PETA with you.

Speaker 3 55:33

Take them, yeah, let them see what it's like, yeah, for goodness sakes, and then grill that thing up for them. There you go, it'll change their life.

Speaker 2 55:41

Yeah, all right, but then you were, I guess you were helping a farmer, or were you farming at the time or when you were doing the…? So we were shooting, mostly on permit at night.

Speaker 3 55:55

No, no, no, it was permit stuff. That's what it was.

Speaker 2 55:59

Yeah. So I had a good friend of mine farmed and we would go shoot their fields and stuff at night.

Speaker 3 56:04

Yes, he put you on your permit. Now why did y'all care about getting the deer out of the soybean field Meat?

Speaker 2 56:11

Because back then I was a young man and had plenty of energy at night and that kind of thing. So I'd butcher five or six does a night or whatever. I processed my own meat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 56:22

Killing them in the summertime.

Speaker 2 56:23

Yep, young small family and y'all keep them. Yeah, yeah, okay. So yeah, we I butchered, that was years. I'd butcher 30 or 40 deer really and uh put them up, give them away, man I had. I had plenty of energy, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 56:35

So just doing stuff to be doing it now like it's nine o'clock, I'm going to bed now was this in treetland county yeah, yeah so so you go from in your hunting career from you know barely, or hunting a whole year without seeing deer right to the deer have gotten so bad that y'all are killing hundreds of deer a year to try to make a crop.

Speaker 2 56:58

So when I started doing that, you're talking about early 2000s. So you're. You're literally from the time they brought the deer into trootland county. 25 years. 25 years they've gone from. You can't kill them because they didn't start 79 hunting them right sure, when they started, I think it was 84 or 5, maybe somewhere in that range, and uh, but yeah so it happened really fast yeah, really fast and I mean in and poor management practices.

Speaker 2 57:22

I got a degree in field game preserve management and um it's poor management practices, it's the state. They're slow on everything and it's not knocking DNR or whatever, but they're slow. I mean we're going to build a road that we needed 20 years ago and when we get done with it we already need another road. So kind of the same thing.

Speaker 3 57:41

Yep, hmm, all right. So why did you get into trekking deer?

Speaker 2 57:47

Well, we're finding them at night. So it's one of these things where people hear it's word of mouth, people's like, hey, marty's got a dog that can find a deer. So I started doing that and man, like, literally I got pictures of the first deer I ever caught alive. That was it for me. Like I had probably found 10 or 12 deer, a couple of does like hit, because we did all headshots so most of the deer would fall right there. That's how you knew you hit it because it fell, and so we had a little experience and then we'd caught. But the first buck I ever caught it was like a busted leg. I was on Cedar Grove, probably around. I must have been 06 or or seven, I'm not sure. But anyway, and that was it. That was it for me. I was like, oh, this is different, like it's a whole different type of adrenaline and a hog, he's dangerous in a different way when I get him on the ground as long as I don't let him up yeah, you

Speaker 2 58:46

know those things do happen on occasion. But um, as long as I let him up, I got him that deer, you ain't got him. I mean, he's different. I had one tear my shirt off one time. He had been shot and busted his back leg. So when you hold a deer, when you throw him down, as long as you got his front leg, bottom leg, it's kind of like a hog. As long as you got that leg he can't get up. That's what he uses the post to get up right all right now.

Speaker 2 59:08

Deer is flexible enough. He can stick his back feet in the ground and get his hips up and stuff like that, but he can also kick you with those oh yeah, I mean he can kick he not bark off your head with those back legs and um. So it's different, but that's part of the fun. I mean, it's, it's adrenaline called a bunch and creeks and rivers and ponds and man, just every way, each way you can imagine.

Speaker 1 59:31

It's funny, marty, because you've taught me, as I've said, you've taught me so much just in three years and, like you, probably saved my life by some of the things you told me. And talking about the deer that tore your shirt off, I had one one. Actually it was, uh, I won't call their name, but it was someone who you referred to me and, um, I've gotten to know them since and he's done some, built a doll box for me and some different things and, uh, one that you couldn't go to. So I went to it and I think it was his nephew, had shot a, um, a really nice, it's like 19 inch wide, 20 inch wide, eight point. The. The afternoon before right went and got there, put the dolls on it 2.2 miles. They jumped the deer in a cut over creek bottom and ran it about 100 yards. And initially I always carry remo and I carry two other dogs because Remo don't catch.

Speaker 1 1:00:32

He just bays, so I want to have two. That'll catch, and so he'll catch some, but not much so. Initially all three dogs are baying. And I'm like that ain't good.

Speaker 1 1:00:43

And so I'm running, and well then, all of a sudden, ain't none of the dogs baying. And so I'm like Well then, all of a sudden, ain't none of the dogs baying. And so I'm like well, they're either all dead or they caught. Well, I get there and they're caught. But I got another bulldog, the little black bulldog. Well, she has got the deer by the throat, but he's got his horns around her and pinning her to the ground, where she looks like she's flat as this donut box, yeah, yeah and if he had had brow times I'm not sure it wouldn't have killed her.

Speaker 1 1:01:12

Um, but I ran by and I grabbed him by the horns on one side to pull him up off of her right, and when I did, he started up and threw me over the other side so now I've got this deer and I'm on my back and this is this was the most probably vulnerable position I've ever been in.

Speaker 2 1:01:33

Yeah, oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 1 1:01:34

And so I've got him on my back and I'm holding on to his horns and thankfully the dog's held right, and so I start to climb back up on to the deer to stab him.

Speaker 1 1:01:46

And when, when I do that, back leg comes up and I had on a flannel shirt I still got it I got a picture of it, Ripped it from above my elbow all the way down to the cuff and Marty's voice kicks in, you know, put your leg on his back leg and so I get up and I got my left leg on his left back leg and I finished him off. But that's one of those things that I learned from you, that you just learn from experience.

Speaker 2 1:02:15

That's how I learned, I mean, but it's good to.

Speaker 1 1:02:18

But you were able to teach me that I didn't have to learn it the hard way.

Speaker 2 1:02:21

My brother and I started hog hunting. I mean we caught hogs Like it was dangerous, because we didn't know what we were doing. We caught hogs. It was dangerous because we didn't know what we were doing.

Speaker 1 1:02:32

We had no idea what we were doing. Looking back.

Speaker 2 1:02:35

I'm like God protects stupid people.

Speaker 1 1:02:37

Yes, I say that all the time. Gosh, I have no fear then About myself. God has helped my stupid self so many times, in way more ways than one.

Speaker 2 1:02:45

Yes, I've been in that position, flat on my back with a deer in my belly and me got him by the horns twice and then what you gonna do, and neither time was it all that.

Speaker 2 1:02:56

I know it sounds like all those dangers yeah, well, you literally got your hands full right yeah but so in the first occasion I I was on the deer, had him where I wanted and he just kind of bucked and I was off balance and I went down and before I knew it he was up and the dog still had him and I had him by the horns and he was in my chest, my belly, but he had been shot with a .300 Magnum through both shoulders, like through the forward and the brisket, so he didn't have a lot of pushing power.

Speaker 1 1:03:23

You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 1:03:24

So I wasn't in any danger of being hurt, but it got my attention.

Speaker 1 1:03:28

This just happened to me.

Speaker 2 1:03:29

This was for Ray. Ray didn't shoot deer on his property a few years ago, but it got my attention and it made me like I'm not 25 anymore.

Speaker 1 1:03:38

I don't move like that and I don't.

Speaker 2 1:03:40

I had to be careful with stuff like that, more so than I used to be, because I'm just get older.

Speaker 1 1:03:47

Would you agree with this, Because this is something I don't think we've ever talked about. But I'm much more concerned with a deer's feet than I am his horse.

Speaker 2 1:03:56

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I would be concerned with a deer that was hit high shoulder or something to where he's still pretty functional like a 200-pound five-and-a-half-year-old deer that had the brow tines the brow tines is what I mean, rest of the stuff, not real scary Brow tines if he's got enough strength that he could push. Had a deer guy was using Axel one day, had Axel pinned to the ground in a pine field, pretty much had a big row of pine straw pushed up with Axel, and when CJ got to him CJ got the deer by the horns and he quit with Axel and started pushing CJ back. And CJ, smart kid, young kid I mean he's not anymore, but I mean he was a teenager then and did a lot of tracking and hog hunting and all this stuff but he just let the deer push him up against the pine tree and he just stepped around the pine tree and grabbed the deer and pulled the deer to the pine tree so he had him like that and the deer couldn't kick him, couldn't drive, couldn't push, couldn't anything.

The technical aspects of tracking equipment and techniques

Speaker 2 1:04:58

Well, the deer's pushing the tree and this time a guy this is a guy we know he had a shotgun and he shot a deer like that. Cj reached down and grabbed the axle and put it back away.

Speaker 1 1:05:07

And I say that, I say I'm much more afraid. I say afraid I'm much more concerned with where the deer's feet are than the horns. And I got punctured this year in the elbow by a deer. That was my own fault too, because the deer didn't necessarily do it to me. I did it to myself because I was grabbing one side of his horns to stab him with the other hand and actually in me forcing holding the deer, he had a, a little fork off of his uh, his main beam. That went in my arm.

Speaker 2 1:05:45

So well, all the times that I've gotten for the most part, gotten scuffed up with hogs or deer, it's usually been more than anything because of carelessness.

Speaker 1 1:05:54

You get comfortable? Yes, I've done this a long time.

Speaker 2 1:05:57

I've. I've done it a lot of times and you get comfortable. And now, as I've gotten older and I'm not as uh, mobile or whatever as I once was, I'm a little more careful. But there's still those times when I don't see something that I should see. You know, maybe Because when I come in like anybody's hog hunted and you've done something that's really really adrenaline filled I think about high school wrestling, when I wrestled in high school.

Speaker 2 1:06:26

So initially everything's just chaos, like you can't hear what people are telling you. It's just chaos and it's kind of that way when you go into a deer or a hog or whatever. But as you get experience, I'm calculating when I come in, as soon as I get where I can see where's the dog caught, what's the deer doing, where's he hit. Well, you know you're making all these calculations. So as you do that, by the time I get there and put my hands on him, I know what I'm in. But sometimes you get careless and sometimes you think, oh, his front leg's busted, I can twist him. If his left leg's busted, I'm going to twist him down that way, because he'll go down way easier. And sometimes you just miss something or you get a little careless and that's how you get hurt.

Speaker 1 1:07:15

Yeah, and another one. I always have told my boys, if you're with me and something happens and you have to deal with this deer, don't be on his feet side. But then there's times where I'll find myself I'm doing exactly what I told them not to do, you know I have.

Speaker 2 1:07:24

I have killed deer when I'm standing, like I never even put my hand on just took and stuck him in a you know, just like you'd shoot him, I mean right behind a front leg, and that's just the way it shook out, the way I I was crawling in the bushes and his horns was hung in vines and he was pushing forward and had the dog and there wasn't really an opportunity To get him down.

Speaker 3 1:07:43

Yeah, or a need to, or need to right I mean the whole point of it is not to go in and wrestle a deer. No, the whole point is to dispatch the animal right. That's right.

Speaker 2 1:07:56

Well, in fairness, that's how you get hurt too. It's because you like with an audience Like I want these guys to.

Speaker 3 1:08:03

Yeah, you want to be Tarzan their mind's blown. You know, Right, I to be Tarzan their mind's blown.

Speaker 2 1:08:06

You know, you're right, I want to be Tarzan, yeah, and then I've seen people do that with hogs and that's how you get hurt, oh yeah.

Speaker 3 1:08:13

My brother had 47 stitches in his forearm from hog Unless a hog will tear you up.

Speaker 2 1:08:15

A hog that was tied. What Yep? He just threw his head up, hit him in the arm. Don't take the way but it was or something, but you know, it's probably six inches and it is, I mean, like they had to do surgery and I'll fix it.

Speaker 1 1:08:38

Good gosh so you, you mentioned earlier the first horn, but horn deer you call so the first buck you call. What was that like for you? What was that story?

Speaker 2 1:08:50

oh man, it was so. I had my nephew with me. My nephew at the time was 14 and he lived with my wife and I for a few, for a few months, and, um, I had gotten him out of school, uh anyway, he was sick, so he had to get out.

Speaker 3 1:09:03

Yeah, right, right he was.

Speaker 2 1:09:05

He's probably a lot better off being who he was in school at that point in his life.

Speaker 2 1:09:08

Anyway so we went to track this deer and yeah, it really was a short track. I mean, the guy had shot the deer I can't remember if it was a gas line or power line, but it was a right-of-way and a long shot Like the deer went down, but I don't think he'd even found any blood. He wasn't sure exactly where the deer was at. I put an axle on it, bam, he went off like 120 yards of wood and caught this deer. So I'm still like not experienced with this kind of thing yet. So when I get in there I see the deer and like I'm like, oh, this is for real, this is happening.

Speaker 2 1:09:43

So I'm not sure how to grab the deer or-handed. I had a knife, a big knife, a hip knife, and so I stuck him. I knew what to do and I guess I had a knife.

Speaker 2 1:09:55

Undoubtedly I expected that at some point or whatever but that was the first one that I'd ever killed. I wish I had really good records. I used to keep a spreadsheet every year on the hogs I caught, the dogs I used, I mean, like an extensive spreadsheet. Same thing with deer, and I wish I knew how many I'd kill with a knife. So last year I think I was a little above 50%, which is unusual. Not this past year, not 24, 23. But most years it's around a third, about a third of the deer I find. So you got to think if I've found 600, then probably 200 I've killed with a knife, something like that.

Speaker 1 1:10:34

That's interesting because, not this year. I haven't totaled it this year as far as alive versus dead, but last year it was within a deer of 50% were alive.

Speaker 2 1:10:47

That's where I was last year too. I don't know, it's just odd, I don't know.

Speaker 1 1:10:51

People are shooting legs more, I guess.

Speaker 2 1:10:53

It could also be the shots that I take, because a lot of times I don't take a call. But I like if I have a dog that can close the deal on a live deer. I like taking those calls because one nobody ever thinks he's alive.

Speaker 1 1:11:05

I like that because.

Speaker 2 1:11:06

I like to be right. Yeah, I mean, it's just one of those things. It makes it more fun.

Speaker 1 1:11:11

Yeah, somebody's thinking I smoked that one.

Speaker 2 1:11:14

His lungs are hanging outside of him. I shot him with a .338 Ultra Mag and maybe not Two miles later.

Speaker 3 1:11:22

The stuff people will shoot, whitetail deer with and not kill the deer. It's like dude, you are shooting a gun that you could kill an elephant with Anything, yeah, right.

Speaker 2 1:11:32

And sometimes that's what I found through my career tracking deer. That's the problem. Nobody knows and I don't mean this disrespectfully, because you can't know what you don't know, but nobody knows what bullets are for. Like everybody has an opinion on ballistic tip or soft point, there's not anything wrong with either. They have a different purpose and same thing with calibers. My wife shoots a .22-250, little bitty 45-grain ballistic tip bullet. Fantastic, kill all the deer. You can kill any deer in this world with that gun. If you hit it right, you stick it in his shoulder. Better get a dog, because it's not gonna penetrate.

Speaker 2 1:12:09

It's just not heavy enough, yeah, and even at 4 000 feet per second it's not heavy enough to penetrate on a big. And everybody always says the same thing. I've shot a hundred deer with this gun. They all fail. Right, you shot a hundred, does they had little two inch shoulders. You shot a buck this time, you know. And if you're shooting behind the shoulder, no problem In the shoulder with that bullet.

Speaker 2 1:12:34

So ballistic tips are made to give that animal all of that force and that soft points are made to penetrate. And that's what they do. And so that depends on which one of them I'm shooting on. Where I want to shoot the deer and everybody has an opinion on that too. Some people are like I'm going to neck shot him. I recommend that, you know, because there's only if you think about it, you need to understand a deer's anatomy. So when you look at a deer and his neck, there's two things that will kill him His artery, his jugular or his spine. If you miss those two and with a doe you her neck's as big as your calf it's kind of hard to miss one of those, or at least there's enough force from that bullet to shock that right. But with a when you got a buck and he's got a 30 inch neck or 25 inch neck or whatever that's completely it's just a bunch of

Speaker 2 1:13:22

meat right yeah and so it that that makes a big difference. Same thing. One of the ones that nobody thinks about is people have called me and say I shot the deer in the chest all right, this is.

Speaker 1 1:13:32

This was some of the greatest advice he's ever given me and I never thought about this until he told me, but this makes so much sense okay so they say I shot the deer in the chest.

Speaker 2 1:13:41

Wrong, he didn't have a chest. Okay, take his shoulders off and what's left? Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:13:46

Yeah, it's a V.

Speaker 2 1:13:46

Yeah, right so when you shoot him in the chest. A lot of times, not all. Most of the time, if he penetrates his body cavity, he's down right there.

Speaker 3 1:13:55

Right. But if he runs off, but if you shoot him like in what you would call the chest, you've shot through his brisket and there's nothing there.

Speaker 2 1:14:01

Well, his shoulders. So everything's shaped like a V Right, and then you've got those two big blocky shoulders on the side that give him a chest Right yeah.

Speaker 2 1:14:08

So that bullet and I realize it's a bullet and it penetrates, but it tends to run down that ribcage and not penetrate his vitals. So you bust that shoulder On the same way. I've seen deer shot last too, where they shot quartering away and you took it in behind the shoulder, just like you would do, and it run under that shoulder, not penetrate his vitals, that's. That's not unusual either it's, it's.

Speaker 1 1:14:30

so. It was such a cool thought to me because I cleaned I don't know how many deer I've cleaned in my life but to be able to picture that deer without shoulders, standing up and facing me and thinking about what is there really to hit right? And it ain't much um, even on a big deer, and that made a lot of sense. And then we've talked a lot about with bow hunting angles, yeah, and you know to think about it that way. That's the questions I ask, oh yeah.

Deer and dog anecdotes: Celebrating successes and challenges

Speaker 2 1:14:56

Especially with archery, more so than gun, but with gun too. But that bullet's different. It's got a different wound channel and the angles don't matter as much because it doesn't drop as much. And the angles don't matter as much because it doesn't drop as much. You shoot 50 yards, I mean, but it's big, big different with a bow on where the entry point is, exit point, all these things, they matter, I mean because they matter on what's there to hit.

Speaker 3 1:15:19

Well, you're not going off of like with a bullet. Your energy can sometimes kill the deer.

Speaker 2 1:15:26

So much energy Right.

Speaker 3 1:15:30

You ain't doing that with an arrow right. You either hit, you either hit something. Listen, we know we get it.

Speaker 1 1:15:35

We also know that was a mistake, all right, but oh that's, that's intentional, it's my story and I've done it twice and it intentional both times yeah, yeah, wes is his.

Speaker 3 1:15:47

His new favorite thing is headshots. Only that's what he's still. He tells me and brandon that all the time all the time we talk about. You know where to hit a deer and he's just like headshot go down headshot on there, you go, whatever, hey.

Speaker 2 1:15:57

And if he runs off? I missed, yeah, if it runs off all right.

Speaker 1 1:16:01

Oh, that is not dead. Yeah, no track nothing.

Speaker 3 1:16:04

He's either there, he's not. Yeah, there or not, yeah, but yeah, I mean. So, when you're comparing those two, if you don't put that arrow through something that is a vital organ, I mean.

Speaker 2 1:16:16

He hemorrhages to death with archery. I mean, for the most part that's the way he dies, and if he's not, he's not I mean because you're not breaking bones and stuff.

Speaker 3 1:16:35

I mean you know what people talk about even the shock of the force of a bullet and the way it's made, like you say, can kill a deer. That can kill a deer you get. And listen, you can, you can, you can shoot a deer in the shoulder or something and never hit a vital organ. And just the sheer shock of I mean, depending on what gun you're shooting and what bullet you're shooting just the, just the impact, just the sheer shock of, I mean, depending on what gun you're shooting and what bullet you're shooting just the impact, just the kinetic energy that you put into that animal can kill it, can kill it, right, I mean graveyard death.

Speaker 2 1:16:55

It's like these kids getting hit with a baseball under the arm stopped their heart. You know what?

Speaker 3 1:16:58

I mean. Right, there's no, Did y'all see where that kid got hit in the face with a baseball Yesterday? No Saturday, no Sunday, oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 1:17:09

He's fun Wait, like a Georgia Southern.

Speaker 3 1:17:13

No, it was like their baseball season started. It was like, I think maybe they were playing Vanderbilt. So whoever Vanderbilt played this weekend, dude got hit right in the face and he was smiling afterwards, you know, I mean probably not five seconds afterwards. But I mean, he was busted up when he realized he wasn't dead, he's like oh great, you think if a baseball can do that, what's?

Speaker 1 1:17:32

a 7-Mag going to do or what's a? You know what I?

Speaker 2 1:17:35

mean yeah, so you got that weight. I mean it's all energy, it's weight and speed, velocity. And Brandon, I know he's heard me say this. So if I'm tracking a deer, like a lot of things, I'll take tracks I feel not very confident in, if the hunter understands, we're against the wall. You know what I mean. But if I'm taking a stretch, something that might be a stretch, when they tell me I shot the deer with, I want it to start with a three, because you just get more room for error, you know if it's 300, 30 off, 6, 30, 30, 308, you name it.

Speaker 2 1:18:15

There's more force there that does damage. You know what I been shot with is what six, five creedmoor, and it changes through through time. It's whatever's popular that a lot of deer are shot with a lot more guns that are popular, so that's a little bit of a disadvantage, like when I started tracking deer, it was 270.

Speaker 1 1:18:48

That was a that's a little bit of a disadvantage, like when I started tracking deer it was 270.

Speaker 1 1:18:52

That's a sarcastic comment. I had somebody that called me and this was probably the first or second year and I called Marty and he said what are they shooting with? I said 6.5 Creedmoor. He said well, first thing to do when you get there is take that 6.5 Creedmoor and see how far you can throw it is take that 6.5 Creedmoor and see how far you can throw it. Yeah, and some people love them and I've got friends that shoot them.

Speaker 1 1:19:13

There's nothing and again, you hit them in the right spot no problem, but there's just not as much forgiveness Right.

Speaker 2 1:19:20

And that .300 mag. You shoot him wherever you got some. Forgiveness, you know you just don't. Like I said, my wife shoots a 22 250 really small bullet. No forgiveness, none. I lost a really good nine point when, when I had axles, matter of fact, I tracked that deer most of the day with axel and when axel was wore out I went and got a buddy of mine had a dog named shaggy it was a really good deer dog and put him on it and tracked him most of the rest of the day with that dog and still didn't get the deer.

Speaker 1 1:19:48

Yeah, this was what it was but yeah, I mean, and marty and I'll get on the phone and we'll talk for an hour yeah just about dogs and just or asking him questions or stories or it's just one of those things, uh, like he said, with just a mutual love of something that we do and just enjoy talking about dogs and deer and hunting and that kind of thing, and it's just been good for me, man. It's been something that I don't know how much my wife appreciates, because during deer season I'm sometimes 2, 3 o'clock in the morning getting home.

Speaker 2 1:20:30

My wife's never gone a lot with me because I pawn her off. I'm like talk to these people for a minute. But she went with me more probably this year than she's ever gone before and it was like cash money. I don't think we found a single live deer. They were all within like 50 yards and she was like man, I'm good at this, that's right. It was a whole different experience than what she's and my kids used to be the same way, like I'd carry them and they're like we don't want to go with dad. He like I had to just sit in the truck and wait, but then, as I get older, to tag along. Yeah, my son actually tracked. Oh, I don't know, he's probably tracked 40 or 50, 30 or 40 or 50 deer. Um, he's killed several himself, um, you know, with a knife, and my middle daughter, nope out, no briars.

Speaker 1 1:21:20

I'm out, count me out.

Speaker 2 1:21:22

My baby girl likes to go, but um, she, she's not real. She don't want to really be involved, like as far as jumping on deer, anything like that, but she loves to go well, she hog hunts with me too, so okay yeah

Speaker 1 1:21:35

my youngest son, uh, reed, he, uh, he loves it. He loves as much as I do. There's a lot of nights he can't go because of school and stuff like that, and he's like, he's like, dad, I won't stab one, I won't stab one, I won't stab one. And so he's 14. So he's getting to that point where he can do a little more.

Speaker 1 1:21:51

But, uh, two years ago we finally had a doe and it was, it wasn't, I mean, it was pretty close to dead and he was always I want to stay, I was like all right, reed, get your knife right and he went over there to to finish this deer off and he took that knife and when he hit the knife it looked like he just he hit a wall. He was like boing, boing, boing.

Speaker 2 1:22:11

I'm like son, you better go harder than that you got to go.

Speaker 1 1:22:16

And then this year we had another one Dawgs called it, and I knew there wasn't no worry of him getting hurt.

Speaker 2 1:22:24

And.

Speaker 1 1:22:25

I was like go, reed, go. I was like if you're going to go, you got to go now. You can't just stand there. You gotta go, yeah come in and yeah, yes, it's like you said, when you make that, you gotta go, that's right, and so he he's going up there and I'm like you can't do it like that.

Speaker 1 1:22:39

You gotta go and so he gets up there and he goes. I can't stab it and I'm like why he goes the dogs. I was like, well, just don't stab the dog, stab the deer. And so but that was the first one he actually did stab and so he loves it. But um, you know. But but I think my other two have learned like we might leave at eight and get home at one, right, and they're like I'm good, dad, I think we're gonna hang out here, you know that's what I'll leave on a saturday morning.

Speaker 2 1:23:06

I'll get up early and do my run and then I'll leave on saturday morning, especially through october, and um, I'll only track as many deer as I want to. Anymore, used to I would, I'd have deer left over for the next day and you know, I might track 15 deer in a like a long weekend, like a three or four day weekend, but um, yeah, anyway, so it just it gets. It can be long and laborious, but now I track what I want to track and I call Brandon like hey, I got a track, I don't want to.

Speaker 1 1:23:37

It's kind of like uh, the the Gentile woman. I tell Marty this all the time. I just like the Gentile woman with Jesus. When she's, you know, talking with Jesus and Jesus says I came for the children of Israel, it's not right to give food. And she's like well, lord, even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their master's table, and that's what I tell him. I'm like, just send me your crumbs, marty, just send me your crumbs.

Speaker 2 1:24:03

I'm more than happy to. If it happens after dark, I'm more than happy to. That's what we're tracking to do after dark, oh Lord.

Speaker 3 1:24:15

Well, I don't want to be tracking deer after dark, oh Lord. Well, so all right. So the new thing with tracking is guys getting these thermal drones.

Speaker 2 1:24:17

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 1:24:19

All right and everybody you know you look at it. It's like man that looks so cool and everything. I don't think people understand what y'all are doing. We need to follow the two of y'all next season with some cameras.

Speaker 2 1:24:32

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:24:39

And strap some cameras to your heads and to your dogs and and uh, let people see what is really happening.

Speaker 1 1:24:43

Yeah, I mean crazy, I've got some footage I. I wore a gopro a lot last year, only a couple of times this year and I actually have one I put on remo this year, but I didn't have a good harness. Yeah, oh yeah, you were telling me the other day't have a good harness, the GoPro harness doesn't work well. Oh yeah, you were telling me the other day, you got a better harness, but it came in this week and it's actually one that they use in the military.

Final thoughts and the importance of mentorship in tracking

Speaker 1 1:24:59

on canines and so I'm going to be able to get better footage from that, but, like, I just want people to be able to see the type of stuff that happens, because it is, it's just, it's just a different thing that that it's a definitely a niche. Yes, and um, and it's again. I mean all credit to Marty, cause I I would have never gotten into this if it hadn't been for him, and, and it's something that has just been and I'd rather go find a big boat and kill one.

Speaker 2 1:25:34

Oh, I most certainly would. I would rather do that than hog hunting, like, at the end of the day, a lot of the dog things are phasing out because of land. It's just. Properties are being broken up into smaller parcels.

Speaker 3 1:25:45

That's why we quit dog hunting.

Speaker 2 1:25:46

Because they changed the laws back in. What was that like?

Speaker 3 1:25:48

to 99, or they changed the laws back in. What was that? Like 299, or something like that 98? Yep, they changed the laws and you had to have a certain amount of land, which we still had it. But when that happened, there was a perception change too Right, right With the general public right, and it went from dog hunting, which was that's right, it was very commonplace to. Why are y'all even doing this?

Speaker 2 1:26:19

It wasn't uncommon to come down 301 and see trucks parked out.

Speaker 3 1:26:23

All the time. Yeah, I always think about when we would go like the county.

Speaker 2 1:26:26

I live in has never been dog hunting allowed in it, but like we would go to my aunt's house in florida and always going down like through the swamp oh yeah man, those trucks be lined up. Yeah, highway down around black shear and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 1:26:41

Yeah yeah, absolutely, jessup way cross. All in those areas down there there was a lot of, a lot of dog hunting happening down there.

Speaker 2 1:26:47

But yeah, that's, that's getting to be a thing of the past. Yeah, I probably. If my kids continue to get older and don't show an interest in wanting to hunt, like when my baby girl moves out, my son when he gets out of the Navy I don't know if he'll be interested in hog hunting or anything like that, but I could see myself not hog hunting at some point in my life maybe. But like I can never imagine not having a deer tracking dog, I just enjoy it that much and even if I don't track 60 or 70 deer a year, I would. I would love to find you know, track deer for kids and just all that. That kind of experience I really enjoy.

Speaker 1 1:27:27

That's by far my most favorite hunting experience well, you know you love something, and this is true for me. You love something when you're willing to try to keep yourself in some resemblance of shape yeah, right, right to be.

Speaker 2 1:27:42

You don't eat all the donuts, so yeah, so that you can actually run, because you know you run a. I mean sometimes you sprint in a quarter mile, half mile, I mean it's, it's almost, and you got to get there and then you've got to fight, and it's not on asphalt track, I mean, it's mud knee-deep.

Speaker 1 1:27:57

Especially now with all the downed trees.

Speaker 2 1:27:58

Oh, my gracious Horrible.

Speaker 1 1:28:00

So it's, but you know, and this is the last thing I'll say, and I'd love to hear some other things from Marty, because the other thing we share is the love of christ and that's been something we've been able to share through the years.

Speaker 1 1:28:14

But you know you're talking about the first buck you killed. Well, the first year I tracked, you know I was getting to know marty, people really didn't know that I had a dog and and I'd just gotten the white bulldog from you and halfway through that season and remo was doing good tracking but he and he was baying but he wasn't catching and, um, I had the bulldog and and we had I think we we had found one or two does well the last day of the season.

Speaker 1 1:28:43

Um, I get a call guy in Sylvania and uh, go over there and he shot a real nice eight point.

Speaker 1 1:28:52

Well, put the dogs on it and it's funny, because put my dogs out, they're going to run around, pee, poop, they're going to do all that stuff. And so they kind of go in the woods the other direction and everybody always freaks out. They're like, no, they didn't. I'm like just hold on. And so then they come back. Well, they don't go about 150 yards and Remo starts baying, and so me and Reed take off running and the guy's coming behind us and we got a little bit of it. He got a little bit of it on his phone that he sent to me.

Speaker 1 1:29:23

But I can remember and I'll never forget, as we're running through there and I can see in my headlamp, I can see the white bulldog and I can see just the white on her. And I can see in my headlamp. I can see the white bulldog and I can see just the white on her, and I can see the deer's white tail Right. And as we're getting in there, she's got him, you know, holding on to him, but he's still up on his feet Right. And that's that moment where you're like I ain't never done this before and I don't know what I'm doing. Yeah, and this is a big eight point on his feet.

Speaker 2 1:29:54

Gut shot animal 200 pounds.

Speaker 1 1:29:56

It can hurt you, right and walking and the dog's trying to hold him and I'm like I don't know what to do. But whatever I do, I gotta, I gotta commit to it. And so I still don't even know what I did. I I'm pretty sure I stabbed him. I grabbed him across his one side of his horns across and I stabbed him on his feet Right. But later I was like Reed. What happened?

Speaker 2 1:30:21

And he goes. Did he know?

Speaker 1 1:30:23

Yeah, he was with me, he was right behind me what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 1:30:25

a lot of times your mind's just everything's just a blur.

Speaker 1 1:30:29

He saw it all. So I was like reed, what happened? He goes, dad, I don't know really. You did some kind of ninja move and I'm not real sure what happened. So I was like, well, that's got I'll take that as a compliment I don't know what it was either, but you know I'll never forget that and, man, I just appreciate everything you've done and the friend you've been to me, even just mostly through text, and calls but man, it's just been a lot of fun, and so thank you for all of that.

Speaker 2 1:31:08

I appreciate it. So Brandon's got it A lot of times when you, when you need prayer, everybody I pray for you, you know whatever. So, and a lot of times you don't want to necessarily involve people, like I don't want to burden my wife with certain things, you know, in a church, um, sometimes I don't want to burden or and sometimes you don't need that information. You know what I mean. Like inside of your shirt, like, so I can call brandon and say, hey, sometimes I don't want to burden and sometimes you don't need that information. You know what I mean, like inside of your church. So I can call Brandon and say, hey, I need you to pray for this, you know, for our church or for my family or for whatever. Sometimes it's just those things and so I appreciate that. I mean that's been really and it's something I'd like. It's one of these people I know if I call and say, hey, man, will you pray for this for me? I know he will. I got another good friend, wes Collins.

Speaker 1 1:31:51

Yeah, really interesting guy, wes is a good guy. You know, wes is a really interesting guy. Wes is a great guy.

Speaker 2 1:31:57

Does falconry jiu-jitsu, raises boa constrictors.

Speaker 3 1:32:02

I was like me and him can be friends until you got to the snake. I'm out, right there. I'm out, sorry, out right there, I'm out.

Speaker 2 1:32:10

Sorry, that's real, real neat dude.

Speaker 3 1:32:11

But yes, we could have been friends, buddy we could have, it could have, we could have had a thing, man, god falconry, that sounds so cool but snakes, I'm out yeah I'm just, I'm not interested, I don't like that's a spider, I don't care but you know, snakes, I can't do snakes either man. Good grief, that's crazy.

Speaker 2 1:32:34

If you got a second, I want to tell a story about Gypsy this year.

Speaker 1 1:32:38

Maybe take five minutes. Whatever, it's just a real neat story.

Speaker 2 1:32:42

It was kind of a new experience for me. I took this trek at night which, like I said, I don't do a whole lot.

Speaker 3 1:32:54

She knows we can't get on to her right now. She's just going around the table loving on everybody.

Speaker 1 1:33:02

We are talking about a dog.

Speaker 3 1:33:04

I'm going to take a picture real quick. This is what it looks like this morning. There you go. There you go, girl.

Speaker 2 1:33:14

I took this track at night. Like I said, I tracked deer for these guys before Got there. I don't remember all the specific details, but put the dog on. It's always the same thing. She's running around using the bathroom and stuff, and they're like, no, the deer didn't go that way. So then she takes off the way the deer went. Yeah, that's exactly where she. Yeah, so, anyway, so she goes off in the woods tracks I feel good about what she's doing about 200 yards.

Speaker 2 1:33:35

She jumps and runs about 700 yards and shows tree and I'm like golly, so I take off and it's, it's pretty rough, it, you know. But I'm, I'm humping it and I get there. And anyway, right before I get there probably 50, 75 yards, I can hear a hog going. Oh, oh, oh, oh, I know, know they've caught a hog. So I get in there. It's probably a 175-pound sow. So I stab her. Hook the dogs back on the lead. By this point my blue bulldog's there too. So lead them back up. Oh, I'm furious. I mean my britches. Like I didn't wear my briar pants, so my britches are shredded, my legs bleeding and just aggravated. I'm tired but I don't like to get out doing it. So I go back start again.

Speaker 2 1:34:18

So I put my blue bulldog up because I'm like he doesn't have any experience, but I know Gypsy, if I can work her past where she jumped that sow, because she jumped the sow in the bottom where the deer had gone. I found blood, so anyway. So I'm like if I can work her past that I'll get past it. So long story short, I did, I worked her past it. She went about 400 more yards. I'm finding blood the whole way and she jumps the deer. Well, I know when she was caught on that sow I could hear that sow biting her collar. Her GPS collar Didn't talk a whole lot about it. I mean, hog hunting is something that you know, but you play that stuff back in your mind later. Anyway, so as soon as she jumps deer 50, 75 yards, she hits a creek. When she hits a creek the collar goes out. That hog had busted the collar and that water killed the collar. So I don't understand this next point. I guess maybe just God's goodness, because that collar hadn't worked since. But I called and I called and I called and she's not coming back. If she loses the deer she'll eventually make her way back to me, but anyway. So I called and I called and I hear a dog barking and I go three-quarters of a mile that way and pretty much determine it's probably a house dog. I got no idea where this dog's, at no idea. So finally I called the guys and I told them what happened. I'm like I'm just going to make my way back to the truck and I mean, who knows, I have no idea what to do at this point. So, anyway, so I get back to the truck. Well, about the time I get back to the truck she pops up on my GPS and shows .91 miles down this creek. So I hop in the truck and we get around there as quick as possible and I get out. She's about. We actually get down a little logging road that crosses this creek and I get within like 80 yards, over 70 or 80 yards. Well, it's thick, all the hardwoods are down. It takes a few minutes, four or five minutes for me to get that 80 yards, but anyway, when I get there she's in shock on the bank of the creek and her back legs are up under her. She's all hunched up and she's seized up, having a seizure. So I just reached down and scooped her up, picked her up. When I did, I heard sloshing in the creek and I had a headlight and I looked to see down the creek and I could see the deer. I was like, oh, she just had this deer, the deer's right here. But anyway, that was just the dog's my priority. So I get her out Before I get her out of the woods, and not to be too graphic, I don't know who, all this is not to be too graphic, but I'll kill a lot of

Speaker 2 1:36:42

stuff. But there's that point when something dies, when it a lot of times it'll tense, really, really tense, and then it'll be just relaxed and that's, that's it. You know, well, she kind of did that. I thought she just I'm losing my dog, you know, and didn't know what they didn't. I mean, I couldn't, I had no blood, I didn't see anything. So, long story short, I get out, get in the road. I probably said the hunter kept saying here's your other dog, here's your other dog got aggravated with him.

Speaker 1 1:37:08

I probably said some things that.

Speaker 2 1:37:09

Anyway. So long story short, I get her breathing so you can pull a dog's front leg, you can pull it up and draw air into their lungs Like it's CPR for a dog. I don't know. I'm not saying I'm a CPR specialist.

Speaker 2 1:37:25

You were trying to save your dog, nonetheless, the dog started back breathing, she still was pretty much unresponsive. So I got her in the back seat of the truck and I'm like I need some steroids in her dexamethasone, I need to get these things in her and it'll bring her out of shock and this kind of stuff. So I told the guys had some friends that hustled to Vitae and got me some and brought them to me. I didn't have any at the house, got home, gave her, left her in the laundry room and she's still kind of pitiful looking, you know. So about 3.30 in the morning she comes back Like I didn't put up a barrier or anything. So she just comes back and comes in my bedroom and like licking my hand. So I get up, she wants to go outside. So I let her outside and she went in the bathroom and come back and so I put up a barrier and I put her back in the laundry room and put up a barrier. Well, about 6.30 that morning it's just chairs, but she jumps over the chairs, comes back in there again. So I carried her outside and put her on her cable.

Speaker 2 1:38:22

Anyway, we were doing some storm cleanup and stuff at the time and so I had things to do that day. But I called the guy and I was like, look for that deer to have still been there. He's hurt. Yeah, like she had him caught for 30, 20 or 30 minutes and pretty much what I had came up with in my mind is she had had that deer caught on the bank of that creek until I got close and when that deer heard me breaking stuff coming, he drug her off in the creek. Yeah, and she was hot and that cold water, like it was frigid, frigid, cold, and that cold water shocked her and that's that's where I think that's where the shot came from. So, anyway, the more I thought about it, I was like we can get this deer, like I, we can go back and get this deer. So I called the guy and he's like, yeah, sure, we'll try, whatever.

Speaker 2 1:39:04

So went out, uh, without making it too long, couldn't. Went around, went around the opposite side of the creek the way I had saw him go because I was like we'll cross, cut his path, nothing. So I came back around and went back to the exact spot where I found her and as soon as I got that and you can tell she's not jumping real high now she's wore out, like she, she's okay, like she's not going to die, but she it was. It was tough experience.

Speaker 2 1:39:34

So she starts off down the creek exactly the way the deer went and turned and went off in the woods about 75 yards, but then she went on to about 125 and showed treed. I was like, but I it was where she treed was right, where we had walked on the opposite side of the creek. I'm like I didn't walk that close to that deer and she's not smelly, you know. So I started walking along that way and I got out to where the pines are. So there's gallberries and briars like waist deep, but you can see across. The pines are thin enough you can see across. Well, I can see the deer and she's fighting him. So I tear out, running and go. And just before I got to her he got loose from her and ran. So all these guys are parked on this logging road and they're sitting there. About that time I, the deer crosses, then gypsy, then me. So she runs about another 75 or 100 yards on that side of road and catches him again. I'll get there and kill him or whatever.

Speaker 2 1:40:18

But man it's just that, like I said, it takes the drive. You have to have the drive, the dog has to have the drive. You had to think about it, like I, if I hadn't seen that deer I'd have never gone back, right, but the fact that that deer was still there after 30 minutes told me she had had him caught all that time. So, anyway, it's just those type of experiences when you, if you need a tracker and you've got somebody with experience, you know you kind of have to trust that they've done this, they've seen some things and they know kind of what's going on. But anyway, yeah, it's a pretty neat experience.

Speaker 3 1:40:49

Where did they even hit that deer? Do you remember so?

Speaker 2 1:40:55

he was hitting a leg. I got pictures. I had to look back at the picture. I'm pretty sure he was hitting a back leg though.

Speaker 3 1:41:02

How often does that happen when y'all go tracking a deer?

Speaker 2 1:41:04

It's almost always, when he's hitting a back end, either the deer is going away from him and they're trying to tuck it in to his shoulder, or he's quarter two and it runs under his body. They shoot low and hit him in the back leg Most of the time in the back leg.

Speaker 1 1:41:17

That's the case in my experience as far as busted legs, I probably track a lot. I don't know. You don't realize how many deer get shot in the leg until you start tracking. I had one towards the end of the season this year that they called me and these are people I track a lot for and they called me and said I'm not saying they're bad shots.

Speaker 2 1:41:42

They just called me a lot. Well it's just a few inches difference.

Speaker 1 1:41:46

Yeah, and this was literally like two inches, it was a high leg and I get there and they're like they attract him probably 300, 400 yards and they said you know, he's just pouring blood. And they were like he's dead, he's got to be dead because he's just pouring blood and you see that much blood and you think but it takes a lot, a lot of blood for a mature buck to bleed out.

Speaker 2 1:42:13

He don't have any quit.

Speaker 1 1:42:14

Yeah, and he ain't going to, yeah. And so I get there and they're like he's dead. We really think, you know, of course, you think lungs or you think this. You think that. Well, I get there and I look down and the first thing I saw was a little piece of meat. The second thing I saw was a bone. Yeah, and so I didn't say nothing. But I said this deer is going to be alive. So I picked up that piece of bone and I put it in my pocket and put the dogs on it. They go, I don't know. 800 yards start baying.

Speaker 3 1:42:43

And when y'all say they go 800 yards, I mean you're not talking about straight line 800 yards away from you, or are you? Yes?

Speaker 2 1:42:50

So the distance will always be linear on the GPS.

Speaker 3 1:42:53

Right, okay, but they may go. They may go 2,000 yards to go 800. Right to go 800. That is possible correct?

Speaker 1 1:43:00

Yes, and so a lot of times what I'll try to do is I'll try to clear my stats on my GPS so that when we get there I can know pretty close to exactly how far they went Right. Because I can know pretty close to exactly how far they went Right Because I can look at it and in a straight line it might have been we went a mile, but if I look on where they went, it's two and a half Right right.

Speaker 1 1:43:21

And so, because I'm going straight line trying to get there, they've tracked this deer in circles and everything else.

Speaker 3 1:43:27

It's crazy to me that you can shoot a deer and that joker's going to go a mile or two miles like y'all said, that's wild.

Speaker 2 1:43:35

You just think we have in our mind that high-powered rifle or whatever, but especially a high-powered rifle Like man.

Speaker 1 1:43:41

it's not a science, but there are only certain things that kill an animal. You know, yeah, a friend of mine, that's a doctor, he told me he said you have to shut down one of its systems. Right, you got to shut down its neurological system, its cardiovascular system, its pulmonary system Pulmonary right. One of the systems has to be hit good enough to shut it down.

Speaker 1 1:44:07

That makes sense and I thought that was a good way of looking at it. But this deer I found a bone and I was like I'm not gonna say nothing but that deer's alive. But I felt, but I felt really confident we were gonna get him right, um, and so they went probably 800 yards, jumped him, ran him another couple hundred yards, caught him, went there and killed him and um, and I handed him the bone and I was like I wasn't gonna say nothing but but I knew this deer was alive, you know. But it's just one of those things where you really don't realize how many deer get shot in the leg because, again, it's not that big of a miss until you start tracking.

Speaker 2 1:44:50

Yeah, two inches forward, two inches low, two inches back. That's really no man's land. Yeah, like that deer will die but you can run him to the other end of the earth. I mean it's unbelievable. I guess what we decide that's probably spleen or something Like. It's a really weird thing. But if you hit a deer three or four inches back and about an inch or two from the bottom of his body, that is a tough track.

Speaker 1 1:45:17

The inches back and about an inch or two from the bottom of his body is a. That is a tough track, the one that that got me this year in the elbow. That's where he was in and he he went in a beaver pond and, uh, about waist deep. Looking back and it sounds bad. Looking back, I should have just drowned him, but um, when I jumped in, normally they're way more concerned with the dogs than they are with me. Well, when I jumped in I think it splashed and it caught his attention.

Speaker 1 1:45:35

And they had him. But he starts coming at me, so I ended up grabbing his horn. But I say because that's the shot and he was still very alive.

Speaker 2 1:45:45

And in the water. So most of the time when you have a puncture in his body cavity, as soon as he gets to water he melts like an ice cream I mean just like that because it drops his body temperature so you can have a deer that's fighting. I mean, you might run him three or four miles and if he has a hole through it doesn't matter where, but if it's to the point where his diaphragm, pulling in and out, will allow water into that hole until it drops his body temperature and he's done into that hole until it drops his body temperature and he's done.

Speaker 2 1:46:10

I mean, he might still be alive when you get there, but it really he goes into hypothermia.

Speaker 1 1:46:14

you know, hypothermic shock yeah which is good if you're in a cypress pond, it's bad if you're swimming a river.

Speaker 3 1:46:23

Yes, because they're going to die in there, they're going to drown right, and you just not your dogs are swimming around trying to find him.

Speaker 2 1:46:29

I like Axel. I did that with him one day with a deer. Yeah, that's tough.

Speaker 1 1:46:41

But, um, but, yeah, so anyway, um, that shot right there is, is I've learned from.

Speaker 2 1:46:46

Marty, and now I've experienced is that's, that's like, as you said, not ethical. I don't recommend it. Well, I do recommend it actually, but uh, if you got the Boone and Crockett and you got to have him stick it square in the middle, pull the trigger and call me.

Speaker 1 1:46:57

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:46:59

I mean you stand way less likely chance of missing him because you got feet on each side of those crosshairs you know, for error and that's that gut shot If you hit him where you're aiming that gut shot, you find him 100% of the time he's going to die. If his gut's punctured, he's going to die, got to, yeah, got to.

Speaker 1 1:47:20

He can't overcome that without surgery. He might overcome missing part of a lung or a lung, but he ain't.

Speaker 2 1:47:24

Yeah, I tried to do one time that was alive. I killed her, told the buddy of mine like hey, like she was hit real good on one side when I stuck her. Well then, when we went to throw her in the truck we flipped her over, she was hit perfect on that side. This is archery. And I said when you. I said you cleaning that deer. He said yeah. I said when you get her lungs, send me a picture. I got one on my phone, I'll show you.

Speaker 2 1:47:47

And she would several hundred yards when I jumped her and then she ran several hundred more yards before the dogs caught her, I would guess because archery it's such a surgical cut Right and without maybe dragging stuff in from the hair or whatever, I would guess maybe without infection that deer probably is fine Because as long as that lung doesn't deflate and the diaphragm keeps pressure, I mean I don't know why she would have died.

Speaker 3 1:48:12

That's wild man, that is wild. That definitely gives you a different perspective on what it takes to kill a deer.

Speaker 2 1:48:21

It's different.

Speaker 3 1:48:22

Where you need to be, all that kind of stuff. Man, I've learned a lot this morning.

Speaker 1 1:48:27

I'll tell you that it's just fun talking about it, obviously. And, like I said, I've just learned a ton. And I'll tell you that it's just fun talking about it, obviously, like I said, I've just learned a ton.

Speaker 2 1:48:40

What a lot of people don't know is, when they call me, I call him. If I don't know, I'll make it up.

Speaker 1 1:48:47

If I have questions, I call him. I'll call him. A lot of times I'm on the way and sometimes it's just something I've never heard. They tell me something and I'm like I don't know about that and I'll call him and just say am I?

Speaker 2 1:49:04

wasting my time. Yeah, I'm like dang it.

Speaker 1 1:49:07

But you never know.

Speaker 2 1:49:08

You're right and you gain experience through that, Whereas I'm like I'm just not taking that I mean you know, you bet you've been there, done I've been there done it, and I mean you know there's.

Speaker 2 1:49:18

There's always possibility if deer's hit. There's always possibility, but there's some of them, just like I said, especially when it's a hunter, that's like, well, I know I killed him, he can't. I heard him fall 50 yards and I'm like you've been looking for six hours, probably hit it. I mean, you know what I mean. And if there's that arrogance of if you don't want to at least entertain what I'm telling you I think happened, I'm just not going to do it Because at the end of the day, if I don't find a deer and I don't feel good about it when I get there, then I'm trash and my dog's trash and I don't want to put that out there. More so for the dog than for me. A dog has more reputation than I do.

Speaker 3 1:49:57

That's wild, Marty. We appreciate you coming.

Speaker 2 1:50:00

Yes, sir, I've enjoyed it. I talk dogs all the time. Heck, yeah man.

Speaker 3 1:50:03

It's fun to talk through this stuff and see how you got into it and that drive for it. I mean good night.

Speaker 2 1:50:14

That's a must-have. A lot of times people will go with you like Brandon will go with you, and then they'll say, well, I'm going to get me a dog If you don't have. Like, it has to be a real hunger, Because most people that get a dog and a little crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah it's different.

Speaker 1 1:50:30

You got to be a little stupid. You got to be dedicated to it.

Speaker 2 1:50:32

I mean like really, really, really dedicated to it, because everybody's like well, I'll get a dog, but you can't track three deer a year and have a great dog. It doesn't work like that. You need to track 50, 60 deer a year.

Speaker 1 1:50:44

I mean you just need to and I've got some buddies that have gotten. It's more of a pleasure thing. They track their deer with them.

Speaker 2 1:50:51

Yeah you find 100 yards dead but in the thick, not a problem but there's no other tracks that you.

Speaker 1 1:50:56

You better call somebody that knows you know, yeah, and it's when they when and some of them, you know, I'm like they were like I want to get get a dog and I'm like, well, what do you want it for?

Speaker 2 1:51:05

yeah, and I'm like because you need to understand now, october, november, if you, you know you ain't gonna sleep much, if you're gonna, really, you also need to understand, when you got a dog, that that every time you, especially this type of dog, every time you take your hand out his collar, you may not put your hand back. That's exactly right. Okay, that's that's that's.

Speaker 2 1:51:24

I haven't I have not lost a dog. I've had several close calls where I had dogs injured, bad from deer, and I've lost several from hogs. But I mean you may lose that dog, I mean it's just part of it.

Speaker 1 1:51:41

You never know Every time where you're running deer with dogs. You're tracking deer with dogs or rabbits, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 2 1:51:48

Every time you let that dog out of the box, you may never see the dog again's way more than than like a hog or a deer, being a an animal that can kill it. You got rattlesnakes, you got cars, alligators now getting be really bad. I've lost quite a few dollars. Alligators, um, you know all kind of thing. I mean you like a hog or a deer, you catch in a pond and thrash around a little bit. If there's a gator there, he gonna come see what's going on. So you got all those types of things that that play into it and you know. So you don't want a dog. I think that's what most people want. They want a dog to have a hunting camp and I can find this deer and that's great, there's nothing.

Speaker 2 1:52:24

I mean, everybody has a different pleasure in what they do with their dogs. But if, if you and I get this a lot too, where people have tracked a deer with their dog and like my dog can't find it, and I'm like, okay, and so we'll go into why, but yeah, if you got that really hard track, you need a good dog and you need a handler with experience as well, because I could give a gypsy to somebody that had no idea what they were doing and she wouldn't be near the dog.

Speaker 3 1:52:54

And I'm not not pulling my own chain, it's just you've done it enough.

Speaker 2 1:52:56

Yeah, you've done it enough to know all right you know we need to get past this, or you know, we got a scent pool right here that's throwing her off or whatever and just getting past, or she can run a mile and catch that deer, and if you don't, if you're like, well, I wonder what she's doing yeah you know, I mean like you got, you got to get there it just takes a gritty stubborn dog and a gritty stubborn handler.

Speaker 3 1:53:18

In a way, you know, stupid, stubborn somewhere in there.

Speaker 1 1:53:21

Just you know to do it, but it's a lot of fun, that's awesome.

Speaker 3 1:53:29

That's awesome, all right cool, we good. That's awesome, that's awesome, all right cool, we good. Another, another podcast where west didn't say much of anything.

Speaker 1 1:53:37

I know, man, I didn't shut up enough to give you a chance with us. I'm sorry you know what? At least he got up this morning and was here, and you know went and got us donuts that nobody ate and all that kind of stuff left, yeah all right, well, good deal, we'll do it again.

Speaker 3 1:53:51

Appreciate it again, marty. Yes sir, I enjoyed it too there you go. All right, well, good deal, we'll do it again. Appreciate it again, marty. Yes sir I enjoyed it too there you go, all right, kill it.