Ep. 25 - Man Up: Authentic Masculinity in a Distracted World

What does authentic masculinity look like in our hyperconnected, distracted world? 

On this episode we were thrilled to have Robert Wyrick join the conversation. Robert has been a customer here at the shop for years and has truly become a valued friend along the way. We have had many conversations, while building his arrows or tuning his bow, about the current state of men in our culture and the role we can play to help right the ship. Robert is sharp and a joy to talk with which I am sure you will quickly hear. 

Our conversation reveals powerful insights about finding purpose and spiritual connection through nature, perseverance, and intentional living. Robert shares how hunting became more than just harvesting animals—it created space for a deeper connection with God. "I talk more to God when I'm in the stand or in the woods," he explains, noting it takes about two days for his mind and spirit to truly quiet down enough to hear and feel what's happening around him. This struggle to find stillness reflects our modern condition: our brains process more information daily than our ancestors did in years. 

We confront cultural misconceptions about masculinity, rejecting both toxic dominance and passive weakness in favor of the model Jesus demonstrated—strength under perfect control. True leadership means serving others sacrificially, taking responsibility, and creating spaces where families and communities can thrive. "We live in a world where it is so scary for men to be men," yet the biblical call isn't to dominate but to "love a woman like God loved the church"—a standard requiring complete selflessness. This has bred society's growing acceptance of quitting when things get difficult. Building character requires working through adversity: "Everything that happens in your life is your fault" might sound harsh, but taking ownership rather than blaming others creates opportunities for genuine growth. Robert's African hunting adventures provide vivid metaphors about vigilance, awareness, and community protection that apply directly to family leadership. 

Perhaps most valuable are the vulnerable discussions about parenting and marriage. We shared honest reflections about our failures, the weight of responsibility, and the importance of creating environments where family members feel safe to make mistakes. "I want my kid to go 'Oh my God, I just messed up. I got to call my dad,' not 'Oh my God, I can't tell my dad.'" In a world pulling us in countless directions, this conversation offers a compelling invitation to slow down, take responsibility, and lead with humility and purpose.

Thanks for joining us on The Bowtreader Podcast. Leave a comment to let us know where you are listening from as well as any topics that you would like to hear us cover. Be sure to like the episode and subscribe to follow along. 

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Transcript

Speaker 1 1:18

all right, here we go. Bow trader podcast number blah, blah, blah, blah. Who cares? All right, so we got some familiar voices, we got dub over here in the corner, we've got, and then we got a new guy in here with us this morning uh, good morning, nailed it every now and then you know I'll tell, tell people. Oh yeah, you gotta be close to the mic. I mean Almost like you're eating Ice cream. Just don't make it weird. I don't know if you can Bring it up.

Speaker 1 1:50

I'll stay bent over, oh no no, no, it'll go up, it'll go up, it'll go up, mike loosen, loosen the. There it went. Loosen this right here, robert Loosen that and then pull up. We had some technical difficulties this morning.

Speaker 3 2:12

Keep loosening it. Let's try to shut the cord in. I bring Sasquatch to the podcast, just like that 10%.

Speaker 1 2:21

Got to be 10% smarter than what you're working with. Hey, I failed this morning. You just need to be smart percent smarter what you're working with.

Speaker 3 2:24

Hey, I failed this morning smart as a monkey, that's all and you got it.

Speaker 1 2:30

You got it all right. You know, my comment there was because we were talking about, um, african hunts this morning, before we, uh, before the mics got hot and just the crazy animals that you see when you're over there and the crazy people that you wind up being on a hunting trip with and stuff like him. So he got an invite. How about that?

Speaker 3 3:11

he's got some cool, got some cool stories to share to you well, we shared a story this morning, uh, with brandon and about this young man I think I was that I was in the store the first time he ever pulled a 60 poundpound bow back. Oh yeah, and he was maybe 11 or 12 years old. And then I walk in this week and he's shooting an 85-pound bow. Yeah, I was like holy cow.

Speaker 1 3:30

Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 3:30

Yep, I even got my pocket knife. He was the knife guy when he was a little kid, and now I had to buy a pocket knife this week from him.

Speaker 1 3:37

There you go, yeah. Yeah, dub was definitely the knife guy. You know, for years you'd see Wes and it's like you didn't check to see if he had a knife. It was to see how many he had. It was always a question of how many he got. Yeah, I mean it wasn't just like he had a knife or he had two knives. It was more like a was more like a. It was more like a dozen knives.

Robert's Journey to Hunting

Speaker 5 4:05

Yeah, my I. Why am I sharing this? But I had 27 at one point. That was my record in public in public at Dell, sir, I remember like on you. Yes.

Speaker 3 4:18

Where did you put them? Were you wearing cargo pants? No.

Speaker 1 4:24

I had a fishing vest on you like a ninja or something. Yeah, I had one of my boots. He's like nine years old man with shorts.

Speaker 5 4:28

This was like his thing shorts, boots and a backwards hat yep, there you go.

Speaker 3 4:33

You know what they say stay ready, you don't got to get ready bros, he was, he was, uh, yeah, he was ready to roll stay strapped or get clapped.

Speaker 1 4:40

Hey, yes, there you go, that's it, but yeah, yeah, so that's who Wes used to be, and you know we used to post videos. Wes would make. He'd make knife videos and we'd post them. And I mean he wasn't doing anything wrong, he was just showing a knife man. They would get taken down every single time.

Speaker 5 4:58

Oh yeah, it was like they'd be posted for 10 minutes and then just gone.

Speaker 1 5:01

We had one that was posted for like I don't know several months before it got caught. This was on one of the video platforms, not social media and then they took it down and they sent us a message. This was like the most kind of I guess violent one that we had, I guess violent one that we had, where they they sent us a message and said listen, you're, you're your account's about to get suspended, like completely taken down. It'll be down for three months or something, you know. They gave a timeline or whatever, and if it happens again, it'll be taken, taken down for six months and you'll never be eligible for being monetized again. And we were like, for I mean, he wasn't even doing anything wrong, he was just talking about a knife, but it was uh, it was because of child endangerment, was how it was flagged.

Speaker 1 5:55

So, yeah, the first time I ever got canceled on facebook was I posted a picture and I post like once a year, maybe twice. You know I'm not a big social media guy, but anyway, I posted a picture of me and the kids. This was years ago and we were out, you know, getting breakfast one morning or something. And I think I said in the post I was out with my favorite little people and it was like I mean, they took it down like within an hour and locked my account out and everything, which I didn't know.

Speaker 1 6:30

You know, somebody said something to me about it. They were like hey, what happened to your post? Why did you take it down? You know, I was trying to show it to somebody that you were actually doing something fun with your kids and not working. I said I don't know, I didn't take it down. So I looked at it and tried to go into my account or tried to just open the app. I couldn't even open it, like I'd go to it, and it was just a blue screen that said you know, your account's been locked for community violation or whatever.

Speaker 3 6:56

Isn't it crazy how quickly you can cut off. They can find that stuff yeah.

Speaker 2 6:59

I hate to be that guy that's always looking for stuff like that. Well, I hate to be that guy that's always looking for stuff like that.

Speaker 1 7:02

Well, it's little robots that are doing it, yeah, but yeah, yeah, so that was my first little interaction with that, but anyway. So, robert, you tell us a little bit about yourself. Everybody's heard enough about us.

Speaker 3 7:19

Grew up around a hunting family. Yeah, my dad took us hunting, did dog hunting as a kid, talked about you know, know, harvesting your first animal, and then that was a little bit shocking to me. I wasn't quite ready for that. So then I stepped away from hunting a little bit. And then a good friend of mine, um, now a really good friend of mine, I'll name drop cory parker. Yeah, oh yeah. Um, we went to college together, kind of knew each other, didn't hang out that much In college. I worked full time, I got married, I had a kid. In college I was very busy trying to graduate and we were on a job site together. He was a subcontractor for a GC that I worked for and he invited me to his family farm at the time. I just got back into archery and I was going to get my old bow serviced and it still had metal cables in the bow and so I took it to a bow shop. I'm like hey we can't service this.

Speaker 3 8:07

They don't even make them this way anymore and got back into it. First deer I ever harvested was at Corey's family's property, and the rest is history. He invited me on an elk hunt and now every year I do some kind of hunt. The last, I don't know, know maybe eight years, now nine years yeah.

Digital Distractions and Mental Quiet

Speaker 3 8:22

So it kind of brought me back to it and uh, I, you know, we this is a biblical podcast kind of or just guy in their faith and I talk more to god when I'm in the stand or in the woods okay, and it normally takes me about two days for my mind to quiet, my spirit to quiet, and then I can hear and feel what's going on around me.

Speaker 3 8:40

So that's that was really the attraction. Wasn't necessarily taking the animal, because sometimes that's easy with the gear that we have now Shoot an animal 200 yards away and be having a conversation when you do it Right. So it's more than just taking an animal. I wish more people would realize that.

Speaker 2 8:55

Yeah, it's crazy how it is, though, like you said, taking a couple of days to just be able to settle in, because our minds are going so fast all the time. And I'm the same way. If, uh, if I go somewhere, vacation, whatever it's like, it's like two days, three days, and finally I'm able to just kind of let everything go and and really be be present with where I'm at. Then, you know, but I think minds are. They're not meant to run all the time, but I think they do you know For sure.

Speaker 3 9:27

And then, even the day before you're getting ready to come back from a vacation, you're thinking about it.

Speaker 2 9:30

Yeah, you're already thinking, you're already getting into it Sunday night.

Speaker 3 9:33

sometimes you can't go to sleep.

Speaker 2 9:34

Absolutely.

Speaker 3 9:35

Things you got to do for the week, absolutely. I saw I read something the other day. It was like when God created us, you didn't have red lights or radios, or cars or work.

Speaker 4 9:45

Or clocks. Any of that stuff or social media.

Speaker 3 9:49

But they were saying the amount of things that our brain processes in a day. Now it would have taken you like years to process that. A couple hundred years ago you wouldn't be stimulated that much that often, and it's something we don't even think about.

Speaker 1 10:02

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:04

I was like man, that's pretty crazy. Makes intentional solitude even more important. Just a bit of get away and shut things down. But I don't think we're very good at that.

Speaker 1 10:17

Well, when you look at it kind of to that end, jesus told us to live today, right today, right, he said don't worry about tomorrow, don't worry about tomorrow. Today it'll take care of itself. Tomorrow, don't worry about yesterday, it's done. You got to focus on right today. You know, like I've started, um, I say I don't want to say like keeping a journal, but I start have I have to keep a list of things I need to do? You know, I think I'm just, I'm not a, I'm not a type a person. So this is very easy. You're not reading my little notes here.

Speaker 2 10:57

I can't. Those stuff are about you. Yeah Right, I can't read it. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 11:02

No, I, I mean, I can barely read it as well, yeah.

Speaker 4 11:05

No, I mean, I can barely read it.

Speaker 2 11:06

as well it's written in code it is it's Arabic. Yeah, it's. It's Hebrew, it's written backwards.

Speaker 1 11:11

Yeah, it's right to left, but anyway, yeah, I had to start doing this because I was forgetting stuff that you know, 10 years ago I wouldn't forget anything. I but you know, 10 years ago I wouldn't forget anything. I mean, I wouldn't forget somebody's name, they told me once it was locked away. I have no idea how that would happen. You know, if I needed to call somebody, I'd remember If I needed to respond to an email or whatever. I would just remember about it.

Speaker 1 11:37

And now it's like man stuff just zips right over and I think it's because it's just so constant, you know, I mean, it's like and you can't, you can't turn it off, Right, um, or or at least we think we can't turn it off. I think that's really, you know, kind of. What we're talking about is that. You know, you, you say that the really appealing part of hunting to you is being able to get to a, to a spot where you're, where you turn it off. You know, and, um, I think that I think we struggle with that and I, there's a hundred different reasons why there's a million different reasons why we struggle with it. You know, I think, um, I think we put, I think we put too much pressure on ourselves. Well, I'll, I'll.

Speaker 1 12:25

I got this out cause I was going to share what I wrote yesterday. I said how do I learn to trust God? Like Job, I've been studying the book of Job all year. I'm not even out of the first chapter yet, and it's March. I said when I'm in times of prosperity, prosperity or when we're in times of prosperity, we're guilty of putting our puffing out our chest and thinking it's because of us. Like you know, I've done this, I've been carrying this and then when we go through difficulty and realize there's nobody else to blame, but us. You know, because sometimes if you've gone through all this crap and you're like you know everything is going good and you're riding high and you're puffing your chest out talking about how great you're doing, well, if something goes wrong, how are you going to blame?

Speaker 2 13:14

somebody else? Yeah, and that the scripture you know, that pride goes before destruction. I've seen that so true in my life. That pride goes before destruction. I've seen that so true in my life. Anytime that I start to think that I'm anything, it's like bam, yeah, I mean, yeah, he humbles you quickly.

Speaker 1 13:32

Oh, yeah, yeah. So I'll continue with what I wrote. You know I said you know we look around and then we realize there's nobody else to blame it on, and then we see God's right there. You know, something will happen and we'll see that God's right there and it's like we realize how faithful he is in those moments and we realize how worthy he is of our trust. Right, Because to say that I'm not sure if I can trust God or not, I mean that's really what we're doing when we're allowing ourselves to get completely consumed by things that are going on.

Speaker 1 14:13

What we're really saying is I've got to be in control of this, I've got to take this bull by the horns and I've got to get after it. I've got to be the one that makes this happen. And listen, there's a time and place for that. Don't ever feel like, okay, I've got to go outside and dig a hole. Well, don't go out there and grab a shovel and lean up against the shovel. The hole's not going to dig itself. If you've got to dig a hole, get a shovel and start moving.

Speaker 2 14:38

Yeah, I think about where Moses and the Israelites are facing the Egyptians coming and God's like just be still and know that I'm God. And then, a verse or two later, he's like what are you doing, moses, get going.

Speaker 1 14:55

And some people will say, well, there's a contradiction in the Bible, right there.

Speaker 2 15:00

To be still and know that he's God doesn't necessarily mean you're in a closet like you know with your sitting, I'll say crisscross applesauce, and you know, with your hands out in meditation it may mean that, but a lot of times it's still moving. It's just trusting him.

Speaker 1 15:19

Yeah, I think it could be as simple as when somebody says something to you that thatends you or upsets you or ticks you off or whatever, not reacting in the moment, just saying you know what. I'm just going to let this play out, and so often we've talked about social media a little bit this morning. There's nowhere on earth where somebody will not hold their tongue like they will on social media. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard.

Speaker 3 15:44

dude, listen, a man wouldn't say something to me in my face that he would say to me on social media any day man god, I think mike tyson said that one time like we live in a world where nobody's afraid to get popped in the face, like if, uh, if you're in your car behind a typewriter whatever the keyboard and you're sending this stuff, well, imagine you were standing there getting on an elevator with that person. Would you say it right?

Speaker 3 16:06

hey no, there's no way, no yeah, and not just out of a physical altercation, just because it's rude like there's certain things that I'm not worried about you and I getting in a fistfight, but I still wouldn't say it because it's not decent to say to a human, yeah, but honestly, after watching mike tyson with jake paul, I might would say like that.

Speaker 1 16:26

Yeah, that was one of the worst decisions I've made in the last six months was staying up to watch that yes, oh my god, before that was so much better, I didn't get political, but it was kind of like watching joe biden fight it's like watching, like a I don't know. Sleepy Mike, sleepy Mike, sleepy Mike. Oh man Can't move.

Speaker 5 16:48

His pockets are too full of cash. Yeah, really there's a good conversation.

Speaker 3 16:54

Are we talking about Tyson or Biden?

Speaker 1 16:56

Oh whoa there it is yes.

Speaker 2 17:00

Man, I could go semi places with that, but I'm not going to. Yeah, yeah'll tell you.

Speaker 1 17:04

yeah, we don't want to be, very true, we don't want to have to click the political button on before we post this podcast. Yeah, oh my gosh. No, thankfully there's not one of those. You just say whatever you want to say. We still live in a free country. Free speech, it's pretty nice. Hey, we don't know how good we got it. Yeah, yeah we don't know how good we got it but, go ahead, go ahead, say what?

Speaker 2 17:29

you're gonna say I was just gonna say. I mean, we don't live in germany.

True Masculinity and Submission

Speaker 1 17:32

According to vance, like you know, they're not censoring us quite that bad right, yeah, yeah, it's man, some of the stuff that's going on around the world with some of these governments and everything it is insane. It's absolutely insane, and some of the stuff that we're finding out about what's actually going on within our government is man. It is shameful.

Speaker 3 17:57

Well, I think it goes back to what you were saying. You made a comment about crisscross applesauce in a closet kind of in relation to our faith, and I think, living in a country or living on the planet, it's easy to do the same thing. It's well, I don't have to act. And there's a preacher said one time, and I'm sure he stole it from somewhere, and there's this guy floating in the ocean.

Speaker 2 18:14

We do that a lot.

Speaker 3 18:14

And he's praying to God and this boat comes by and he goes no heaven. And he's like god, why, why didn't you save me? And he said I sent five boats, two helicopters, an airplane and a fish that talked to you, yeah, and you didn't take any of them. That was me coming to help you. So sometimes in the spirit it's like let me, let god know that he's in control of your life. But that doesn't mean sit and wait. The government is here to help. Don't let them overtake you. They're not supposed to be the almighty power in the country. They're supposed to be here to serve all people Republicans, democrats, christians, non-christians. And sometimes we just sit like, well, the government's going to do this or my taxes will do that, and we don't even really understand how it all works Almost how God is.

Speaker 2 19:02

Yeah, and how. Don't even really understand how it all works yeah, almost how. How god is.

Speaker 4 19:04

Yeah, and all the and only how we got on all this.

Speaker 2 19:05

We went from you being in the woods and decompressing for two days and enjoying the outdoors to now we're uh. But you know, I don't know. I think about even all the the stuff going on with the usa and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 19:18

If the church would be the church, we wouldn't need usa. You know what I mean. Like if we just did what we're called to do, we wouldn't need USA. You know what I mean? Like if we just did what we're called to do, then we wouldn't need all that stuff Like we would. It would be a completely different scenario and, like you said, we wouldn't be dependent on the government to do everything for us.

Speaker 3 19:35

You'd be more dependent on men, and there's a topic that's touchy.

Speaker 2 19:39

Yes.

Speaker 3 19:40

Yes, I saw there's a. I don't know if he's a TikTok guy or an Instagram guy, but it's an old man with a beard. Looks kind of like the Marlboro man have you all seen him? And he talks about the nation does well when the church does well. The church does well when men are men and I'm messing up what he said, but that's what I took out of it and I was like man. We live in a world that is so scary for men to be men and somewhere down the line men got it construed that I'm the all-powerful, I'm the the alpha and I'm over women and I need to to govern. And I don't think that's quite what the book said. Like we read that scripture, you know, we kind of we go over pretty quickly that the man's supposed to be the head of the household yeah but then he says that you're supposed to love a woman like god loved the church.

Speaker 3 20:20

Yes, I'm like, well, hold on, that guy died on a cross. So if that's how I'm supposed to love my wife, I don't know about you guys, but I definitely fall short every day. And if I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader of my house and I'm supposed to guide my kids, my wife and everything, that means everything that happens the heartbeat of my house is my responsibility and I got to lean on God to do that, because I mess it up every time. I mess up golf shots, I mess up hunting, pretty much everything that Robert's supposed to do Probably a good chance I'm going to mess it up.

Speaker 1 20:47

Yeah.

Speaker 2 20:48

Golly that's so good and that passage of scripture you're referring to, man. It gets abused so much and I think that's one of the reasons that submission and anything is so frowned upon today is because it's been abused. Like for a woman, the thought of submission has been abused so much that no wonder it's kind of one of those taboo topics?

Speaker 4 21:19

I want to know it.

Speaker 2 21:21

Yeah, but I don't know too many women that if their husband truly loved them and laid down their life for them the way jesus did for us, would be like I don't want that, you know to.

Speaker 3 21:33

Your point is so we're asking the women to be submissive, but then god asked for us to be submissive as well so it's not. It's not why I want her to do it and not me, like we're both supposed to be submissive to god well, and it's supposed to be from a, from a, from a place of being a servant, right?

Speaker 1 21:49

yes, that's where.

Speaker 2 21:50

That's where we're supposed to come from absolutely, and our understanding of submissions backwards too, like it's. It's, you know, you look at jesus and he was the most powerful person anywhere he went, and yet he chose to serve I. I mean, I think about Philippians 2, where it talks about how, even though he had equality with God, it wasn't something for him to hold on to, and he humbled himself and became a servant, even going to the cross. And it's like man, that's a mission, right.

Speaker 3 22:21

He's washing people's feet, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 22:25

Even people that were going to betray him, or a person. Think about this he rode in to to to conquer sin on a donkey. Yeah, all right. Think about your favorite war movie where they you know, were they an old war movie where they were riding on horses. Yeah, can you see william? Wallace yeah, yeah, braveheart, like a little donkey you know, I mean it would be, uh, it would be a comedical farce. You know, I mean, and it's like, but that's what he did with those sandals and that outfit.

Speaker 3 22:55

Yeah, you go to. So my wife and I were just fortunate enough to take a trip and we go in these old historical places and you've got napoleon, or all these great, you know leaders, arguably great. They're on this giant steed and their horse is bigger than everybody else in the picture and they're wearing gold and they're wearing this cool sword or this cool hat and they look like you were saying it looks like thor from the marvel movie, or something like man.

Speaker 3 23:16

That dude looks awesome yeah, and then here comes jesus on his donkey right. It's like, oh, something's something's different.

Speaker 1 23:22

Yep, yep, puts it in a different perspective, but all right, so we've talked a little bit about that. Being men has gotten. This has this weird connotation to it in our society. This isn't everywhere, okay, so we're very guilty as Americans, thinking that, however it is, here is how it is everywhere, 100% agree, right, very guilty as americans thinking that however it is, here is how it is everywhere 100 agree, right, we're.

Speaker 1 23:45

We're very guilty, as as americans, of saying white man bad, right, but when you really look at it, there's, when you look at the population of the world, white man doesn't. Isn't the the the biggest category?

Speaker 3 24:00

right, right, so so and please, and please, people that are listening, fact check yeah. Fact check it yeah.

Speaker 1 24:07

I mean there's what eight point, what 8.2 billion people on the on the planet, and I mean just look at, just look at the look at the stats, you know, I mean it's, it's just what, what, what, what.

Speaker 1 24:30

the message is is not true period. Okay now. Is racism an issue? Yes, is it an issue for everybody? Yes, to some degree. It is period, I don't care who you are, where you're at, it affects something some part of your life period. Okay. And but so when, when we look at, when we look at being men, what does that mean? What does it mean to be a man? Does it mean going and killing something?

Speaker 1 24:55

you know, does it mean, um, having a big bank account? Does it mean you, when you're younger, having all the girls or something? What does it mean to be a man?

Speaker 2 25:08

Yeah, We've lost that. I mean even in the church we've kind of Battery is at 96%. Oh, thank you, Siri, Appreciate that. Just in case you were wondering, my battery is at 96%.

Speaker 1 25:23

Well, you slept good last night, that's good.

Speaker 2 25:26

But we've kind of made in the church even manhood more feminine. We've kind of made church more feminine.

Speaker 1 25:35

I know guys that won't go to church because they say that that's for the women to do, say that, that, um, that that's for the women to do. Yeah, you know, they say that, that, um, you know there's this. There's this perception that jesus was weak or whatever yeah, and that's such a crazy thing.

Speaker 2 25:53

But I get it right. I understand like people talk about how religion christianity is for weak people, like we need something to lean on because we can't handle the world, you know.

Speaker 1 26:07

But when you look, it's true, I need something to lean on. Absolutely, bro. I lean in pretty hard every day. All 8.2 million billion people do.

Speaker 3 26:14

Yeah, I mean cause listen you're leaning on a drug, whether that's your hobby, an actual drug or religion, an addiction. We're all leaning on something and it's always been funny to me that everybody wants to. Like you were saying well, you're a weak Christian, you need a mythical person in the sky to make you do right. Maybe what's your.

Speaker 2 26:35

God, because we all have one.

Speaker 2 26:36

Exactly. There's something that they're leaning on, but it's looked at as a weakness and so people don't want anything to do with it or they say they don't or whatever. But you know, I mean, when you look at Jesus like he wasn't a sissy, Like he took on the whole religious establishment of his day, Kings Looked him in the face yeah, Looked him in the face. He took on the religious leaders of the day, which were some of those powerful people you talk about, corrupt. And then not only that, but he took on death, hell and the grave and defeated it. And you hear some people talk about how they're going through their Gethsemane when Jesus was suffering and struggling with going to the cross. But we'll never go through a Gethsemane when Jesus was suffering and struggling with going to the cross. But we'll never go through a Gethsemane. We'll never go through anything like what he went through. If we're a believer because he did that for us, and to me, that is not weak, that is a man.

Speaker 2 27:39

That is the picture of strength yes, it was strength and I think about meekness. Strength under control. He could have done anything, and even satan had tempted him right to here. I'll give you everything, just worship me. You don't have to go to the cross, you don't have to do this. But the amazing thing about it is he could have taken the world, but he wouldn't have saved us. And he, he chose to go through what he went through and face it. And scripture says he said his face like flint. And I love that. This picture of jesus going all right, let's do it, and just going on, knowing exactly what's about to happen yeah and I think that's the kicker.

Speaker 3 28:23

You know I was put on this earth to do this task. You know when it's coming.

Speaker 2 28:27

I'm talking to my father about it and I know this is when it's time to do what it's time to do, and then doing the difficult thing, right absolutely, and that's the thing that I think we miss a lot is, especially as parents, I think we have to be careful not to try so hard to keep our children from avoiding adversity, but teaching them how to go through it. And because in life, if you avoid the hard thing all the time like where do you get and what do you do for the Lord, because nothing you do for God's going to be easy.

When Quitting Becomes Acceptable

Speaker 1 29:02

Well, if we avoid the hard thing all the time, you know that's really what builds character, is going through tough circumstances. That's one of the reasons that sports can be so good. Absolutely, because, as you're going through sports, you know especially if it's, you know, a team sport, you're going through hard stuff together with a team, right, and it's teaching you principles about how to go through life. If it's done the right way and if it's coached the right way, right. And now, very often, it's about you know, if we don't win, you guys suck, you're terrible, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 2 29:40

Which I like to win.

Speaker 1 29:41

Hey, winning's a big deal. Don't go into a game. Don't, don't ever go into a game, or go into anything, expecting to lose. Why would you do that? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense to me. But if you lose, don't lose all hope and be completely distraught, you know? I mean, okay, you lost the game, all right. You know that's probably gonna have an impact on your season, may have an impact on your whatever, but it's not the end of the world, right, um? So I think that that's that. That's something that, um, that we need to be able to put in perspective, and going through something like that helps you build that character where you understand, you know, okay, this isn't that big of a deal.

Speaker 2 30:27

I think the one thing I learned through the two days in football, football camp, all of those things, baseball, just all the running, doing all those things was I could always take another step when my body was screaming and saying you need to stop, like there was ability to take another step. And so when things get hard, you know, just knowing, okay, this sucks, but I can take another step. I'm just going to take one more step and I encourage people that a lot Just keep stepping.

Speaker 2 31:00

Just you know, the only way you stay in a valley is if you stop there. You know what I mean. If you're crossing through and you're going through a valley and you just take one more step, lean into the Lord and eventually you come out of that, but it's tough.

Speaker 1 31:17

So where did this thing come up? Where quitting is an option? It seems like to me, quitting is. How do I say this correctly? It seems like quitting has become like okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 31:36

How'd that happen? I think it's been pretty easy. I think we got away from all the difficult things and it's go with your feelings, well, and there's feelings that I don't want to get out of bed this morning. There's feelings I want to eat this extra donut, like your impulse if you're answering to the flesh, just kind of how it was explained to me yeah, you're always.

Speaker 3 31:53

You're always going to fall short because my mind and my body wants to be weak. Your body doesn't want to run, your body doesn't want to fast, your body doesn't want to do the things that it takes to make it strong. Well, if you give in to all that and you eat the cake and you and you feel like crap oh yeah, the things that you're made to do.

Speaker 1 32:10

Okay, there are no donuts here this morning. Just, I know we're not videoing this morning so nobody gets to see this, but there are no donuts here.

Speaker 3 32:17

But if you, do all the softer things in life, you just become soft and it's hard to realize that like well, now I'll sleep in till 10 or 11 o'clock every day and I don't go to bed till 4 am, and that's not how we were made and I don't know anybody that's really successful on that clock.

Speaker 3 32:33

It feels great. I mean, there's always exceptions to the rules, but to the masses, I mean, if you want to live a long, prosperous, happy life, you have to do the difficult things. Every time I've done the easy things. It normally does not for me. It never has led to success or happiness. It's always shallow. In the moment I feel good and right after I feel terrible.

Speaker 2 32:53

I think it even goes back to looking at like the tenure of people staying at one job now is maybe a year and a half, two years and I got a three-year shelf life, normally until now, now that I'm older, yeah and so it's like you look at it. And why does that happen? A lot of times, maybe, it's because you get a better offer, but a lot of times it's because things got hard you know what I mean.

Speaker 2 33:21

And two nowadays, everything's someone else's fault. I see this even I've coached a lot of baseball and stuff and it's always somebody else's fault and so it's not that my kid isn't quite good enough to get on the field, or it's not that my kid needs to work harder instead of sitting on the couch and eating donuts. It's always the coach's fault, it's always you know something else. That's the issue, and we and we've just become really good at making excuses for not working and not being willing to push through the challenges that we face.

Speaker 3 34:04

I say something at home and my wife and daughter do not like it and it's everything that happens in your life is your fault and people do not like that. And then I'll explain like okay, you got rear-ended at a red light, that's not your fault, that's not what I'm saying. But when my wife and I struggle and we're not talking or holding hands or doing whatever people are like, well, it's 50-50. No, it's not. I'm 6'8", she's 5'2". When I walk into a room, I bring an energy in there and if I'm not setting an energy where she wants to come show me love, that's on me. Yeah, and then if, if my kid like I, can make an excuse for everything that goes right or wrong yeah in my life, but at the end of the day, there's only one person that's there throughout my entire life.

Speaker 2 34:44

It's me yeah yeah and it's.

Speaker 3 34:46

Could I handle that differently? Well, you know, john said this and invited you to do that and it's kind of his fault and it's like no, I could have said no, I could know, you know I can, I can tell you examples of a person's behavior and I should kind of know how that experience is going to go, yeah.

Speaker 3 35:02

The Bible talks about. Uh, is it discernment? Is that being able to? You know my, my intuition's telling me this. Hey, my intuition was saying, Robert, don't go to a bar, don't have alcohol, because you get touchy feely. And then I did it, and then when something bad happens, it's well, it was the alcohol's fault, it was just no no, you knew you were that way, you put yourself in that situation.

Speaker 3 35:23

So it's pretty much everything that goes wrong in my life. I could tell you three or four steps that led up to it, where there was a little flag in my head that said, robert, this isn't what's best for you.

Taking Responsibility for Your Actions

Speaker 3 35:31

Hey Robert, don't do this. Hey Robert, this is, this is now a time you're about to get in trouble. And then it was like, well, you know, the boss did that, the boss didn't do that, robert did that. The boss had to react to what Robert did. And so when you really sit down and you can sit in the woods by yourself and you can think about, and it's like, well, what would I have done differently if I wanted the outcome to be different? And there's always something I can do, and sometimes that's very hard. It's hard for me.

Speaker 2 35:56

Yeah, and I stole this from somebody else.

Speaker 1 35:58

But if you rent it for long enough, you can just adopt it as your own.

Speaker 2 36:01

You tell it three times and it sure is oh it's three.

Speaker 2 36:04

I thought it was more than that. You tell it three times. And it sure is In today's world. Yeah, Because you know I can make an excuse, but you know I've heard this that we too often look out the window rather than looking in the mirror, and we're always looking out the window for somebody else to blame rather than looking in the mirror and owning it. You know, and if you think about that, like it's so easy to do, is we? We want to look and find somebody else. That's the reason for the issue. But here's the thing I would say is like, if everywhere you go, the same problems, there it's you, yeah, you know I'm a denominator, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 36:48

I mean, it's pretty simple.

Speaker 1 36:49

I mean a denominator. Yeah, yeah, I mean it's pretty simple. I mean it's pretty simple, right. I mean, if everywhere you go there's the same problem, it's probably not everybody else you know, like jesus said. You know. He said you're worried about the spec. Yeah, and you're worried about the spec in my eye. Yeah, you know, but you got a plank hanging out.

Speaker 2 37:07

I was just studying that the other day. I mean it's yeah, it's good so, man, you know.

Speaker 1 37:15

So we talk about. Talk about going out and being in creation and unplugging and being able to, to have those moments where we're just able to, we're able to block everything out and we're able to listen.

Speaker 2 37:31

We're able to kill and stuff and oh yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 37:33

It's like sometimes the best way to ruin a hunt or the best way to ruin an afternoon is to kill something. I mean, I'll just say that's when the work starts. Yeah, you know, but you know how do we get to that place where we're intentional about doing that on a daily basis? Because, all right, so we talk about fasting is not something we talk about very much.

Speaker 1 38:01

It's not really taught, it's not preached on, it's not something you know you'll hear it's become more popular like in the health community, where they're like, hey, you need to fast from this or whatever, but from a, from a biblical, spiritual standpoint. It's not talked about that much, um, but the reality is we're fasting spiritually all the time, but in an unhealthy way, you know. I mean, so you think about, um, if you go to church every every Sunday, well, if you're not picking up the word and reading it at some point during the week, man you're, you're starving yourself. Yeah, I mean, I truly believe that. How often would we eat a big meal on Sunday and then not eat the rest of the week until next Sunday? Yeah, how many people do you know to do that Week in and week out?

Speaker 1 38:54

Right, I'm going to tell you you don't want to have many because they're not going to last long like that. It's just not going to happen. You know so how?

Speaker 4 39:00

do we get?

Speaker 1 39:01

to that point where we're intentional about what we're putting into our minds, we're intentional about how we live our our lives.

Speaker 1 39:10

You know we want to do it from, you know, from whatever our career is, we know we need to be intentional, we know we need to be diligent so we can get to the results that we're trying to get to. It's very simple. Yeah, that's a very simple equation. Well, if I don't show up, you know, and do my job, then I'm going to, I'm going to struggle financially, right, I mean, that's, that's very simple to see that.

Speaker 4 39:36

Well, if I don't, I don't show up and spend time with God.

Speaker 1 39:40

I'm going to struggle to know his character and how he wants me to live, right. So when we look at who God is, he is the creator of the universe period. That's who he is, and he created me and he created every one of you and he, he created every one of us with a, with a purpose, with a, with an intention in mind of who we were going to grow to be, and the good news is he wants us to be who. That is way more than we ever will.

Speaker 1 40:15

So he's going to lead us to that point, but how much are we going to fight him along the way because we don't get it? We don't understand, so I'll go back to my original question. How do we build that stuff into our everyday life? To make it so it's make it so it's important, make it so we're intentional about it. What does that look like?

Speaker 3 40:40

that man. I think it's a tough one. Um, when you look at, we talk about the god of the universe like I don't even know that humans can really fathom that, and where you said like 8.2 billion people on the planet. Now that's just now. What about all the people before us, the thousands of years and how, how really giant this really is. So I just ran some math. So I go to church for roughly an hour on Sunday, seven days a week. That's 168 hours. I'm expecting one hour of 168 hours to get to get me good for the week. If I only spend an hour at work, I'd be fired. I only spent an hour on my marriage, I'd be divorced. I only spent an hour being a parent. I'd be a terrible parent.

Speaker 3 41:19

So what else in my life? I'm a. I'm a golfer, a bow hunter. I get ready to go on a hunt. I don't shoot one hour a week when I'm getting ready for a hunt. So how did?

Speaker 3 41:36

For me personally again, everything's from robert's fault in robert's life how can I get ready to go on an african hunt or an elk hunt and I shoot a bow two hours a day, four times a week? I only spent an hour in god's presence and really wasn't. I don't mean to step on any toes, but when I'm sitting in a in a church, there's 90 other things running through my mind. While I'm trying to listen to a sermon, I have to constantly pray lord, quiet my mind so I can hear your message. So out of that one hour, how much time I really get. And they sang some check the kid into you know bible study and all that. So I'm like in 30 minutes maybe and that's not the preacher's fault, that's robert's fault how am I going to be spiritually healthy with 30 minutes a week? It it's just not going to happen.

Speaker 2 42:11

And that comes back to like our minds being so busy. You know, the statistic I've always heard is people have to hear something seven times before they retain it, and I don't think that's because people are typically we're not that stupid, it's just there's a lot going on in there, you know.

Speaker 4 42:28

And.

Speaker 2 42:29

I mean, how many times have you been reading a book? And you read four, five, six pages and you go what did I just read?

Speaker 3 42:34

oh yeah I'm terrible about it. You think about something else and all of a sudden you're reading but you're not comprehending I have to pray out loud, yeah, because I'll forget that I was praying and I'll be thinking about something else and I go god, I'm sorry, and I'll have to literally say the prayer out loud, just so I can like it feels like I'm talking to him and I can stay on track with what I'm trying to talk to.

Speaker 2 42:54

God about yeah.

Speaker 3 42:57

That's pretty bad and I'm not stupid by any means, but it's like good Lord, you can't even get through a prayer.

Speaker 1 43:03

I think it's awesome that you've identified that and you've said I've got to fix this because I want an intimate relationship with God and if that means I need to pray out loud you know, when I'm riding down the road in my truck. I'm praying out loud, you know, or when I'm getting up early in the morning and I'm, I'm, I'm reading reading scripture, and then I have that opportunity to sit there and pray, and you know, praying for others and praying for what's going to be going on throughout my day, and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 43:31

If that's what you need to do, I say, do it.

Speaker 1 43:33

Yeah, you know because a prayer can, if, you're, if and I think this can happen at any time but you'll be sitting there praying and then all of a sudden, you know you're, you're thinking about your grocery list or you're thinking about you know I've got to call that guy back today, or whatever, and yeah, I mean I, I, I agree with you. I've had numerous times where I've been praying silently early in the morning and I'm like God, I don't know what I just what just went through my mind. You know it wasn't, it wasn't I've you know. It was like I was walking in the woods and saw a squirrel.

Building Intentional Spiritual Life

Speaker 2 44:13

Yeah, and you can see it like when I'm, when I'm preaching on Sunday and I'm looking out at the congregation and you can, you can see the distraction you kind of. Sometimes I have to find people that are locked in, you know, and kind of look at them, because that's a lot more encouraging than seeing somebody that's like staring at their shoes or you know, nowadays we carry our phones everywhere and you see somebody on their phone and so I joke around about it. I'm like every time I see somebody on their phone, I'm just like you know they're texting somebody, telling somebody that this is the best message.

Speaker 3 44:50

So how powerful is that? You're standing up there giving a sermon, you're doing God's work right now and you can look out and you can see that guy's not in tune. But then how quickly it distracts you. It's got to be. Hey, the Lord said to John there's Robert looking down, giant head over everybody's face. I can see his whole face, not looking at me.

Speaker 2 45:14

Sorry, lord, I'm trying to say this yeah, how we're all so easily distracted. Yeah, yeah, so, but but you, you know what I? What I look at is um, that's not, that's not my responsibility, right, my responsibility is to read god's word, hear the lord, and deliver the message to the best of my ability and then trust god with the rest, you know. And so it used to bother me to where I would sort of get discouraged in the message, and now it almost. It really makes me preach harder because I'm like you know, I didn't spend this time with the Lord, and the Lord, give me a message that you need to hear, that I need to hear for you to stare at your shoes, you know and so you know, sometimes I'll clap Before I'll say, look, if you're sleeping, like you need to wake up, you know.

Speaker 2 46:06

And I don't know, because I'm like, why are you here? If you're just coming here for a nap? And I had somebody say, well, maybe they're just tired and they needed to come, I'm like, then go to bed. But like, don't, don't go to church, just to check a box, yeah. And so I just I don't have much of a hard time anymore Calling that out.

Speaker 1 46:26

Tell everybody to stand up and clap. Yeah, and there'll be two or three just sitting there, yeah.

Speaker 2 46:32

Man, this is no joke. One time after a service there was a guy who was sitting up near the wall and he fell asleep with his head against the wall. Everybody left. This guy is still asleep after everybody left. We had to go wake him up to get him to leave and it was hilarious. But I have been told that I am the cure for insomnia Really so yeah, there you go In a loving way.

Speaker 2 47:01

No, no, it wasn't in a loving way, but you don't need ambien. Just turn on one of my messages and you're out in like two, three minutes. Well, I'm glad I could help you. Yeah, the lord works a mysterious way there you go.

Speaker 3 47:14

Oh my goodness, but it's good. You know we were talking about a few things and you praying and things like that, and I always joke with the ones closest to me. I'm always like a beginner in christ. I'm learning something new about the bible, what works for me, and then I'll. I'll get away from it for a week or two where I'm just busy and then getting back into it. Is almost like learning to walk again, but like how you can pray differently now. It's amazing. Whatever you spend time doing, you get better at. You used to get distracted by somebody's face looking at their shoes. Now it makes you pray harder because you've done it 900 times right, and it's like a friend of mine it's golf related, but he said Robert, imagine if you walked into a gym and you hadn't been in there in five years. But you used to be a beast, you could bench 500 pounds and you ain't been there in five years. I could promise you're not benching 500 pounds, no way, you're about to get crushed.

Speaker 2 47:58

You're about to get crushed.

Speaker 3 48:00

So if we looked at our faith that way, if you're only here for your 30 minutes on Sunday, how strong could you really be? Not very strong. Strong, and I'm guilty. I'm in the 30 minute a month kind of guy. From time to time I'm trying to watch some YouTube videos to give my shot in the arm, but normally I'm fighting. I'm fighting something. When I walk in and listen to a preacher he didn't say that, right, he didn't do this right. I'm like, good lord Robert, what are you doing? You're here to get something better and you're trying to nitpick things apart.

Speaker 2 48:26

What in your spirit is telling you don't listen to this and that's another thing I think when you do go to worship is what's, what's your heart when you walk in like, are you looking to receive something? I know the times that I've gone to worship that I wasn't preaching, you know it. I can get something from any message pretty much if I go in with a heart that wants to get something. But I also know every Sunday there are people who are in the congregation who just want to find something wrong with something I say.

Speaker 2 49:01

And so it has a lot to do with our heart, and I've noticed too, just in my own personal life the strength of my relationship with God is directly related to how much time I'm seeking him in his word. More than anything else is how much time am I seeking him in his word. If my relationship feels distant. There is a direct correlation with how much time I'm spending with him.

Speaker 1 49:26

Well, I'll tell you, with 100% confidence, if you feel distant. If you feel distant, if I feel distant, it's not because god moved. Yeah, yeah, he is. Whose fault is it? Yeah, that's exactly back to your point. Yeah, back to your point. But yeah, so you, you say that. And robert, just like you said earlier, if you're only spending an hour a week with your daughter, you know you don't have a very good relationship with her. How can you, how can?

Speaker 3 49:53

you have a good relationship with her, and then what I teach her fall on deaf ears. You're never around. You don't do this, right yeah.

Speaker 2 49:58

And that's you know. It's almost like you have to make a deposit to earn the right to be able to speak into somebody's life. You do 100%.

Speaker 3 50:09

Yeah, and that's a big task. As a man like hey, you know I can speak on something, but if they look at me and go, you don't practice what you preach yeah hey, you do. You do x, y and z and you're telling me not to do it. That doesn't hold any water and that that's a load on men's shoulders. Hey, I'm.

Speaker 3 50:25

You're supposed to fix this house, but you're you're not doing what you're supposed to be doing either yeah and it's, it's, I think the world that we live in now is always judging, and even you walk into a church looking for what they're doing wrong yeah and I'm guilty of that, and it's like how am I supposed to be bringing those around me up when that's in my heart, that's right at times?

Speaker 3 50:44

how am I supposed to be bringing up my neighbor when I'm just judging him? Well, I do this better than he does, or he's. He's falling short. Well, newsflash, we're all short, we all fall short. It says it in black and white, that's right for sure, yep yep dub what you think silent.

Speaker 1 50:59

This morning I was looking at his shoes.

Speaker 2 51:02

He fell asleep. I saw it yeah last over.

Speaker 3 51:04

Yeah exciting like shooting some animals in africa can you say that yeah, we just said it.

Speaker 2 51:11

Hey, let's uh get away from all this bushy feminine stuff and kill something oh, man, you tired.

Speaker 1 51:19

All right, so one more thing. So we, we talk about. I say one more thing, I'm lying. I'll just say I'm lying. I'm sorry, but we, we, um, how do we get to that spot where we're not just judging each other all the time and we're trying to intentionally, diligently, build each other up? How do we get to that place?

Speaker 1 51:42

And that's and that's hard, that is very hard, right and it, but it doesn't have to be. You know, I don't know, I don't know why it has become so hard, but I don't know. I'll let you guys talk.

Speaker 3 52:05

I'll share some of my experience too, but I want to hear what you guys say about it For me. They say you are who you hang around, and my wife and I have met a couple that we get to hang out with from time to time and it's one of the the few couples that I can hang around and I don't feel like I have to give a disclaimer with something I get to do. I didn't come from money, so when we get to take a trip that you know I get to go to africa, people immediately think like, oh my god, they had to count all this money. Well, I'm a baller on a budget, so it looks like really cool things, but I'm buying bows off ebay and letting you set them up, john.

Speaker 3 52:35

You're like hey, you ever go buy a bow from me, which I did. He did he did.

Speaker 1 52:39

I was worried about it for several years. Here I was like man, this is, he's gonna be that guy, he's gonna be that guy but there's a lot of hobbies so I have to be careful how I do it.

Speaker 3 52:46

I've got a budget and do all these things, and so having someone around you're in your corner that you can just say, hey, this is who I am, and they can do two things robert, that's so awesome, you get to do that. Or robert, that's not cool, don't go down that road. And then we live in this world where our egos are like well, I can't believe, you know, I can't believe the pastor called me on that said that to me, or I can't be honest with myself. And so having people in your corner that can hold you accountable and then sing your praises at the same time is difficult to find.

Speaker 2 53:15

The community is so important, and you mentioned ego, and again it makes me think about Philippians, chapter 2, where Paul's writing to the church in Philippi and he says do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, Rather in humility, value others above yourself, not looking to your own interests, but each of you to the interest of others. And you can't value someone above yourself if you feel like it takes value away from you. And so until our value is found in Christ and we realize that we are enough in him, we're not going to be able to elevate other people above ourselves because it feels like it diminishes who I am. You know there's always. I've compared it before to the difference in doing a push-up or a bench press. You talked about the gym.

Speaker 2 54:05

You know, typically we're trying to do a push-up on other people's shoulders rather than, you know, a bench press, where we're lifting other people up because we don't want someone to get ahead of us, because then it feels like I'm less. And reality is, though, that my value doesn't diminish by somebody else's success, and then I'm able to value them above myself, to encourage them in the things that who they are, in the Lord um and in in their life, and I think that's a big part of it.

Speaker 3 54:41

But, for me, I need people around me who can remind me of those things, remind me who I am in Christ, remind me what really matters, and and hold my feet to the fire so it's tough and when you and for the people that are listening, if you think that's not, you go meet someone new and listen to the questions that you ask them yeah, listen to how you respond to questions. Yep you know what do you do for a living? Yeah, what?

Speaker 1 55:04

yeah, I mean what we're measuring people up why why? Is that one of the first things you say when you tell somebody who you are?

Speaker 3 55:10

So the excuse I give myself is I meet John. Hey, what are you into? What do you do for a living? I own a bow shop. The way I justify my question is well, now I know that we're like-minded in archery, so I have something to talk to him about. But really, if he said nothing, I just live on credit cards, I sit on the couch and go to church I'd be like, well, that's kind of less of a man. I would immediately judge him and I'm terrible about doing it. And I try to justify to my kid that it's not judging. It's what book am I reading? Okay, well, the book of John is. He doesn't do this, he likes this. So then I know how to respond and interact with him. But there's definitely underlayments of judgment and then weighing. And then where do I put him on my spectrum? And if he says something, am I going to give it value or am I going to dismiss it because I don't respect him as a man?

Speaker 2 55:54

Another great thing to do is when you're in the midst of a conversation, can you actually be present in that conversation or are you trying to read the facial expressions and the body language of the person you're talking to to see if they're approving of you?

Speaker 1 56:12

You know, kind of flipping that on the other side Listen and I will admit that I am guilty of being in a conversation with somebody and I'll walk away from it and I'll be like what did they just say? Like, did they ask me to do something? Or you know, I mean, I was just like just checked out and I get so mad at myself for that that I will, that I'll let that happen. So I, I have, I'm dumb. Okay, so I have to come up with weird little ways to do things like it, like to remember people's names. I didn't realize I was doing this. You know, I said you know earlier, you know, 10 years ago, I'd hear somebody's name once and, dude, it was locked away. Now I've got to hear it twice and then I'll come up with some kind of weird way to remember somebody's name. And so I've learned that I've got to be creative to get to a point where I want to be, where I'm able to block out everything else and just have this conversation. But it didn't come naturally and it didn't come easily. I had to be intentional about it and I go back to that all the time. Several years ago, I did back to that all the time.

Speaker 1 57:31

I, you know, several years ago I did a, I did a Bible study on my own. It was just what I was doing, my daily, my daily reading, and all I looked at was everywhere in scripture where the word diligent in any form was written, and I studied all around it, you know, to understand what it was talking about. I mean it's in, I I've got it written down somewhere how many times it was it was recorded in scripture and I would find it and I'd write out the scripture and I would look at okay, well, what, what? What was it talking about right here? Like, what does it mean in in, uh, in Proverbs, where it was talking about being diligent? And obviously in Proverbs, in that particular passage, it was talking about you know, if, if you're not diligent in your work, then you know poverty is going to come on on you, you know, like a, like an unrelenting storm. Basically was kind of what it was talking about and you know that spoke to me and helped me, to help me to grow in that way.

Speaker 4 58:37

And it was through that that I realized.

Speaker 1 58:39

Hey, I need to be diligent in conversations with other people. Yeah, you know, I need to be listening, I need to be engaging and help them to understand that.

Speaker 4 58:49

I care about what they're saying and I look at it as a point of worship you know where I'm looking at this person the way that God looks at them.

Speaker 1 58:57

That's right you know, when we look at this idea of you, know it was said that David was a man after God's heart right.

Speaker 4 59:09

And I read that and I'm like.

Speaker 1 59:12

I read the rest of David's story and I'm like what yeah? Huh, yeah, I mean, you remember the Bathsheba thing right.

Speaker 4 59:20

I mean, what the heck are you? Are you?

Speaker 1 59:22

sure he's a man after God's heart.

Robert's African Hunting Adventure

Speaker 4 59:24

I mean. So how do, how do we get to that point?

Speaker 1 59:27

So it doesn't mean being perfect, right, that point. So it doesn't mean being perfect, right.

Speaker 2 59:33

So I think, I think, that is one of the biggest things that keeps us from having conversations like this and, robert, I know you didn't you had no idea what you were walking into. He actually asked me. So uh, is there a topic this morning?

Speaker 1 59:44

but, but I think that's the biggest thing that keeps us from doing things like this you know where we're?

Speaker 4 59:49

where we're engaging with other men in an effort to truly be men right Because if, if I'm going to be a man, I'm going to hold myself accountable.

Speaker 1 1:00:01

I'm going to ask other people to hold me accountable and I'm going to hold other people accountable knowing that none of us is perfect.

Speaker 4 1:00:09

None of us are you know we can't be if we try to be perfect, we're going to absolutely go insane. We're going to absolutely go insane.

Speaker 1 1:00:17

And plus we're making very little of the cross when we say that we have to be perfect or when we hold somebody else to these unrealistic standards Because it's just, it's impossible. And getting to that point where we say, okay, I'm going to walk through life with a group of men and I know they're going to let me down and I know I'm going to let them down, but we're all going to be okay with that. We're all going to lift each other up when those moments come, because, dude, listen, crap is going to happen.

Speaker 1 1:00:47

That is guaranteed In this world you will have tribulation, you will have broken bones, you will get told by the doctor that you got cancer, or your wife's got cancer, or your daughter got in a wreck on the way home from Savannah last night. We don't know if she's going to make it, or you know your wife's got childhood whatever you know happened and all this kind of stuff you know. So I mean it's those things are coming. How do we? How do we? How do we we?

Speaker 1 1:01:20

don't want to incubate our lives from it. I think that's the. I think that's the risk that we run. We try to get into a spot where we put ourselves and our family in this bubble, where they're protected. We don't have to worry about it. You know, we think, ok, I'm standing here with a shield and a sword and I'm going to keep all this stuff out. Well, reality is no, you're not. Yeah, right, you're not going to keep all that stuff out.

Speaker 4 1:01:45

So how do we? How do we?

Speaker 1 1:01:46

build our lives. Build our lives. How do we build our lives in a way that, when that stuff comes, we're able to? We're able to to turn and pivot with it in a way that number one is going to honor god. Number two is going to be a testimony to others.

Speaker 1 1:02:07

Um, and number three and others you know being everybody all others your family, your wife, you know your, your kids, they're watching how you respond to stuff. Right, I know wes is, I know he's watching how I respond to something even if he doesn't, doesn't realize he's doing it yeah, that's when he's faced with it.

Speaker 3 1:02:28

Well, that's how my dad handled it Right? Just subconsciously, that's how he'll act.

Speaker 1 1:02:32

You know, 60 years from now he'll be talking with his grandkids and you know he's going to say you know, you never knew, you never knew my dad. But let me tell you about this. Well, what's that?

Speaker 2 1:02:46

story going to be like. It was interesting so I got a new harness for Remo and got the GoPro attachment for it. It's really really good. I think it's going to work good next hunting season. He has some tracking dolls to track winged deer Go back and listen to that podcast.

Speaker 2 1:03:03

Yeah it was fun, so I put it on him the other night just to try and see. And so I walked outside and I'm just doing some other things just while we're outside. I'm just cleaning up a little bit, just messing around. Well, I went back. It was 15 minutes of video. I went back and watched it. I bet 11 or 12 minutes of that video was him watching me.

Speaker 2 1:03:28

It was just crazy and this is my catahoula, right. But the whole time, like the video, he's just standing there. You can just see his head just moving back and forth, just watching what I'm doing. And I thought, if he's doing that, how much more are my kids doing that? How much more are people around me that are watching? You know and it was just interesting, interesting way to think about that that people are paying attention to our lives and um, and and really you know, especially our family are looking at how we handle things and um, again, I think I fall short on that a lot and people that we don't even know right, robert, so you've traveled to hunt a lot, you know.

Speaker 1 1:04:09

over the past eight years it's been something that you've done. I know you've hunted a little bit here, but really a lot of your hunting experience has been having that one big trip Right, and that's something that I've learned about with you, with servicing your archery needs and stuff like that. Um, so when you go on those hunts like tell us about, you know so last year or year before last you was it last year. It was last year that you went on the big um hunt to Africa.

Speaker 3 1:04:41

Yes, uh, 23.

Speaker 1 1:04:43

Yeah, so tell us about you know how some of that stuff went what it was like you know where you went and all that kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 1:04:52

So it's funny how this is kind of just bridging into that. So a lot of what we're talking about with God and like what you were just describing about being a man and how the animal is looking at you. When you get into nature, you see the same thing. So I'm sitting on a water hole and it's 110 degrees and you see, all animals have to come to this water. But when all animals have to come to the water, that's the predator and the prey. So now when the prey comes, they were more turned on to what's going on around me than a whitetail deer or, as I don't know if you can get more tuned in, but we've all seen the white-tailed deer nonchalantly walking through the woods, doesn't?

Speaker 1 1:05:26

happen a lot. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. The difference with white-tailed deer there aren't lions. Yes, that's, that's what I mean so here, they are spooked.

Speaker 3 1:05:37

They hear a limb crack. They're paying attention here, every animal that came to the waterhole. Their eyes are moving everywhere. Their ears are moving everywhere. The animals that are with them aren't drinking, they're looking, so, depending, you may get 10 animals drinking. Well, that's because they got five more behind them looking. Okay, we would leave the the stands and you would drive in the middle of the day. So it's around 110 degrees middle of the day and they're all standing. Multiple species are standing under the same tree, but what I immediately notice is they're not all facing the same way. Three are facing to the north, two are facing to the south, like they're looking. They've got a 360 degree shield of what's coming, which is, john, what you're almost saying with your house.

Speaker 3 1:06:15

Yeah, I want to keep my family in this bubble, but stuff's coming in. Oh yeah, the. I always mess up if it's a jaguar or leopard. That's in, one's in south america, one's in Africa. That cat still gets in there from time to time. That bad situation, that cancer, that infidelity, that alcoholism or whatever it is, gets in, and it's so. I've always.

Speaker 3 1:06:35

I tell my daughter, like trying to see patterns, you'll go a long ways. Patterns in myself, patterns at work, patterns in the way I worship, patterns in animals, and you can see everything that goes from hunting and animals goes to let a leopard I think it's a leopard let the predator come to the waterhole. Everything may not run way off, but they're all looking at that cat. When we walk in our house, everyone in there is looking at us. The two dogs we have comes to me first. I'm the one that spanks them and my wife. Will they come? How do they come? Love on you when they're sitting in my lap? Yeah, I'm the spanker and the and the giver of love that's, that's a, that's a big show like remo.

Speaker 2 1:07:15

He pretty much only wants to listen to me, like if he goes out, and as he stays inside, he goes outside. Usually I'm the one that has to call him back in my daughter had to chase the dog yesterday.

Speaker 3 1:07:27

She got so mad. She was like I don't think I said a bad word, but I was screaming at him and you'll stick your head out, you'll just say, you'll just say his name, and he comes running. Yeah, and that's I don't think as men, we realize how much power is in that and are you a voice worth coming to? And that's, that's hard. Sometimes I just want to beat the dog for not coming and then, it's well, he won't come in the future. So you got to balance it yeah and that's a lot of times.

Speaker 3 1:07:49

That's a reflection of what storm's going on inside of me. So I get to go to these hunting places and I'm sitting there and my, my spirit finally quiets and you look and it's. You know, animals just eat and drink. They don't do anything else. It's like man. That's not what I see in nature. There's a bird that flies at the front, the wolves let the wounded wolf lead the way so they can set their own pace. There's a lot of things that go on in nature that, whether you're biblical or science, whatever, you know Big Bang or God well, there's some things that are unarguable, and there's animals do a lot of things that humans do. And if that's the case, can I do both? And God still be there. So back to the hunting.

Marriage and Parenting Reflections

Speaker 3 1:08:28

I was, I was fortunate enough to have a friend that, like Corey Parker, that kind of poured into me and invited me to go to Africa, and it was just an absolute amazing trip. Corey got me turned on to the elk, my buddy Toby, which, john, you've met he's come in here before Um he on to africa hunting. Oddly enough, it's cheaper to go to africa and hunt than it is to colorado to kill an elk. Um, so just going there and and having situations where I could stick my hand out of a door and hit a wild elephant on the butt, like that's, that's pretty crazy. Like what, what kid from brunswick, georgia, gets to do that, and yeah, and in some life so it was. It was very cool. I was lucky enough to harvest, I think, maybe seven or eight animals. I'm getting three mounted. Um, hopefully they'll be here in a couple months.

Speaker 3 1:09:13

I'm super excited about that yeah um, I got to ride in a helicopter and see, you know, endangered species. They had a. I can't remember if it's the white rhino or the black rhino that's more endangered, but this, you see this. I don't know how much they weigh, but you see this giant animal. It's the white rhino or the black rhino that's more endangered, but this, you see this. I don't know how much they weigh, but you see this giant animal. It's as big as a truck and it's got a bracelet on its leg and it's because it has a 24 hour. It's not a handler I don't know really what you call it, but it's a. It's a bodyguard, wow, to keep from poachers. And it's got a tracker on its on its ankle. So it's it's got jewelry on running around in africa. I mean, that was that was crazy. We're in a helicopter flying right over it had a baby with it wow, I just really.

Speaker 3 1:09:51

I mean it's like being in the zoo yeah, I mean it's. It was amazing. That's cool. The the impalas over there. They'll blow at you like a like a doe does here yeah so my, I'd already killed and harvested. I don't know if y'all say kill on here, but it's fine. It's fine, I'd already killed and harvested.

Speaker 1 1:10:05

I don't know if y'all say kill on, here it's fine.

Speaker 3 1:10:06

I'd already got an Impala, a really nice one, and like the third morning of hunting, there's this one that's just staying there and it's blowing the whole time. And I look at the guy and I say, hey, look where I'm from. If you get an animal that does that like, you eventually have to shoot it, like it's going to ruin our hunt. This thing stays for like 15 minutes just blowing at us. It'll drink some water. It's looking around, he's by himself. I look at the guy and I said, hey, one more time and we're going to take him. Okay, robert, whatever, like you could tell he didn't believe me. That thing blew again. I grabbed the bow. I said, hey, get the camera. Are you for real, mate? And I'm like, yeah, we got up and in the video that he took you can hear him blow and as soon as whack, you hear it hit him.

Speaker 3 1:10:47

The guy's like, oh, you weren't kidding. And I was like, no, we'll leave him be and then we'll finish hunting the rest of the day and then we'll go get it. And he's like you guys are crazy we don't do that here. Well, we got to see other animals because we did it.

Speaker 2 1:11:00

That's good.

Speaker 1 1:11:08

If it yeah if it blows, it's got to go there. You go. That's my philosophy. So when you were on that hunt, you got back and you told me a story about uh when you went to shoot something and uh, some of the mishaps that you had.

Speaker 3 1:11:15

So share that story with us so for anybody that's thinking about africa, do some research. Make sure you're going to a good place. We were. Um, when I got there, it was like being 12 years old again, first time I was ever in a tree stand. There was one time I almost dropped the bow because my hand was so sweaty. Um, I was, I was shooting a carbon bow. That was super fast that, john, you set up for me. Um, I took some fmjs for the bigger, bigger game and when it came in, the boat literally almost fell out of my hand and as I was sitting there I was leaning forward, so my mouth was open a little bit and I didn't know it at the time.

Speaker 3 1:11:50

I could hear my heartbeat out of my mouth, so I leaned forward and it was a, an oryx or a hymn's buck. It's a black and white zebra, big, long, straight horns, and I leaned back and I my guide was asleep, and so I leaned back and I look at him, thinking he was making noise, and the noise went away. I was like that's weird and I leaned forward and as I had to lean forward, I had to kind of look off to my right to see around the blind I was in and I heard it again. What is that noise? And it took me probably two or three minutes to realize it was my heartbeat. I would open my mouth, I would hear it. I would close my mouth, I wouldn't hear it. That's why I was. I was that anxious and and heart pumping and it was unbelievable and I was like am I gonna be able to pull the bow back? It's an 85 pound monster. And I was like am I, am I gonna be strong enough when it comes time? And luckily I was.

Speaker 3 1:12:38

But I think the thing that you're referencing is one of the first animals that I got to to take over there. I'm super excited. There's like 10 or 15 animals in front of me. They're in a water hole. The back of the water hole is maybe 15 yards, so you're shooting them very close. Again, they're tuned in. I'd already missed a, um, a water buffalo. I know, yeah, water buffalo. High they. They ducked an arrow at 85 pounds. I think you had me shooting like At 85 pounds. I think you had me shooting like 330 feet per second. Yeah, it was pretty big. So 330-ish, 32-inch draw. That one was maybe 14 or 13 yards and it ducked. I was like man, this is A water buffalo.

Speaker 3 1:13:15

Yes, it's a water buffalo. There's a Cape buffalo.

Speaker 1 1:13:18

Yeah, Cape buffalo is really big. They're both giant.

Speaker 3 1:13:21

Which one killed Mufasa Wildebeest. Okay, it wasn't a buffalo, I'm sorry, it was a wildebeest. I thought Scar killed Mufasa. He did, but it was a stampede, so he had already ducked one. Say it again.

Speaker 4 1:13:41

Brandon and the squirrel in there.

Speaker 3 1:13:43

So I get excited. The animals are in there and I go to pull this bow back and we may or may not have had this same mishap. Wes, you and I were talking about this the other day. If you have a release and it's a handheld release, I strongly recommend keeping the strap on it, because it can come out of your hand.

Speaker 1 1:14:00

I have this conversation with people all the time, not about your.

Speaker 3 1:14:03

It's okay, I can take it.

Speaker 1 1:14:05

No, I tell them all the time listen, we'll have people come in and they're like, hey, I kind of want to, especially this time of year, I kind of want to learn how to shoot a handheld shoot, a thumb release or whatever. And I'm like, okay, well, how long have you been shooting? I ask that question always, but I really don't care what the answer is.

Speaker 1 1:14:26

I always say well, why don't you start with one with a strap? And they're like why? That's the point. I want to get away from it being strapped to my hand.

Speaker 4 1:14:39

I'm like dude, you want this thing strapped to your hand just for a little bit, because people don't realize we're creatures of habit.

Speaker 1 1:14:44

We'll just do stuff not even knowing it. If you don't believe me when you get up tomorrow morning and you go to put your socks on think about what you're doing and try to put it on your right foot first, you know, or when you go to or don't think about what you're doing, just go to put your socks on. And then the next time you put your socks on, try to do the opposite and feel like it'll, you almost can't do it.

Speaker 3 1:15:08

It's like your brain won't let you do it.

Speaker 3 1:15:10

Something as simple as that you've just done it so many times. Yeah, so perfect example, like you said, with that release. There's an animal in front of me. I've never taken it. There's so much activity going on. I'm thinking about so much and trying to process my guides talking to me is the screen right? Is the bow right? Is what's the wind doing? How far is the animal he now taking? Three steps closer to me. What's my pin at? Which bow? Because I took two bows, because I can't make a decision. So I've got a smaller matthews that I shoot. It's very fast as well. That's the impala and things like that. I'm shooting that with the kudu and there is a buffalo there. Um, that if I'm going to shoot something that big, I've got these fmjs and I've got this 85 pound monster with me. I've got both bows in the stand. Oh wow, so even a more distraction. So which bow am I grabbing? Which arrow am I shooting? Which broadhead? Because I had like three different broadheads as well. Um, the bigger animals I'm shooting a fix to make sure there's nothing bigger hide, things like that. So I get the bow.

Speaker 3 1:16:04

I'm thinking about all this and then, when you clip on, the last thing I'm thinking about is my right hand. So I go to draw the bow back. I'm in a concrete blind. It is, I think they said it's around 10 inches thick. And you're like well, why are you sitting in a concrete block? Well, later in the hunt an elephant literally drags its butt down the side of this thing, scratching itself. And if we're in just some little small blind, the thing's coming in with us. So when these buffalo come in and there's 50 of them in a herd and they get spooked, they're going to run right through what you're in. So the window is maybe 15 inches tall and we're maybe five foot wide. So I'm shooting through just a little flat shelf that. I'm looking in animals there. I'm super excited hearts.

Speaker 3 1:16:45

I go to pull it back and the arrow shoots. Comes off the string. I hit the button. I don't know what happened, but the arrow shoots. The concrete stone right in front of me, wow, stuff goes all over the guides Like oh my God, did your bow break? I'm like I have no idea. The animals don't run off. So we're not, we're talking. But we're not talking, we're not using words. He's looking at me, I'm looking at him. Our eyes are big as dinner plates. I pick the arrow up. I look at the tip. Can you say brands in here? It's an iron wheel. Anybody that knows archery, that's an expensive, nice head. It shot a rock straight rock at maybe two yards out of an 80 pound bow and didn't break it. It didn't break the arrow, thank God, because I was too excited to even think about it. I picked this arrow up off the ground, look at the tip, knock it and then shoot the animal. And my guide looks at me after it's done and goes I can't believe you shot that arrow and I was like what do?

Speaker 3 1:17:40

you mean that it was a perfect shot. And he was like dude, you just shot a rock, you're lucky it didn't blow up in your hand, yeah, which is what should have probably happened. I literally just shot a rock at 80 pound pool, at two yards with an arrow, and picked it up and shot the same arrow. I didn't check the arrow, I didn't bend it and just there's so much going on in that moment and a lot of things that we do in life that you just don't think about everything. Luckily I killed the animal and it was. It was pretty cool. And now we just laugh at the video and john tells people and no, I've never.

Speaker 1 1:18:09

That's the kind of friends you need right there. I've never told you you're never gonna believe what robert did.

Speaker 3 1:18:14

You could totally do it, I don't mind, like so. I think that's what we were talking about earlier, about having people around you and why don't we say these things? Like every human I've ever met has done something stupid, I promise you. You. They may tell you they haven't, but they have. They tell you they haven't. They're lying Exactly right. There's a moment when they go, oh my God, I hope nobody finds out. Or, oh my God, I can't believe I did that. And that's normally the things that you keep with you Me shooting that rock with a bow and arrow and then shooting it.

Speaker 3 1:18:40

I'll remember that forever, like like, hey, don't do this, even though it's the second time I did it. I did it with you, john, when you were actually tuning that bow for an elk trip. That same one handheld release. We made some adjustments. We went for, I think, from a 90 let off to like a 60 or something, so I was holding more weight first arrow. We had been shooting for over an hour. You guys were closed for over an hour when this happened and it it goes to jump on me. I pull it back. We're looking at other things on the bow, pulls it right out of my hand, shoot myself in the hand. With the release, the bow jumps forward out of my hand, falls on the cams, bends the cams which I leave, like the next. What day or two I was leaving to go on my hunt, like not. We couldn't do anything to fix it. The there was a young man, one of your employees was sitting there, got hit with part of the arrow or part of the rest.

Speaker 1 1:19:27

Yeah, part of the rest broke off.

Speaker 3 1:19:29

The arrow hit the ceiling. Thank God we didn't shoot somebody, so apparently that's a common thing for me. So now, john, won't let me shoot bows in here without a strap Listen, we've had crazy stuff like that happen in here.

Speaker 1 1:19:43

even recently we had a guy was shooting his boat and he's been shooting a handheld release and he let it slip out of his hand and it, like you know, I don't think it tore up anything on his boat though oh oh no, it didn't, which was surprising. Normally it does normally that release comes down smashes everything broke his release. Yeah, it did break his release. Hit your. Hit your roller guard or your cables or something like that and just destroy that stuff. It's not made to be hit like that.

Speaker 3 1:20:12

Yeah, that's what, if you remember. So it broke my cable guard, my rest, that we just put on the bow, like that night. It hit my hand and it caused a blood blister, like on my hand where it hit me so hard. I mean it messed the boat. We had to change several parts on that boat.

Speaker 1 1:20:25

Yeah, and then so the the main issue was that when the boat fell, when it came out of your hand and fell on that concrete floor, and you know it just, it just crushed that cam uh, so that was. That was the main issue that kept us from you know we had everything else to get it back going, but we didn't have that cam, so, um, but yeah, stuff like that happens, but yeah shooting the block wall and then picking that arrow back up.

Speaker 3 1:20:54

That wasn't the smartest thing I'd ever done.

Speaker 1 1:20:56

I'm just glad you didn't come back with stitches through your hands and that arrow breaking.

Speaker 3 1:21:00

So imagine if that was to happen out there, like we took a bus ride, we flew into Stesburg and then drove like three or four hours up and went in the middle of nowhere. We're like in this uh, right beside us is kruger national park. There's no hospitals around, there's no. Like I would have had to just deal with graphite in my hand for make sure you're not bleeding or whatever, and then either take I don't even know it takes you hours to get a shuttle or something out there to drive you away.

Speaker 4 1:21:26

Wow.

Speaker 3 1:21:27

Not to mention the cats. Don't run around. There's lions out there Like I mean. Something happens out there. You're in some serious trouble. It's not like time out. Let me run to the hospital.

Speaker 4 1:21:36

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:21:37

So it's yeah, I got very lucky there Same thing if you're in the middle of 10 miles, 15 miles Like it's. It's not a timeout. Let me get a doctor in here.

Speaker 1 1:21:50

Yeah.

Speaker 4 1:21:51

Wow.

Speaker 2 1:21:53

Pretty wild stuff.

Speaker 3 1:21:56

Yeah, the dumb things we do as hunters. Gosh man.

Speaker 1 1:21:59

Yeah. That's true, you don't even need to be trying to hunt something. I mean, we're just, we're all idiots.

Speaker 5 1:22:06

That's to be trying to hunt something. I mean, we're just, we're all idiots. That's very true there I said it.

Speaker 3 1:22:10

Why are you looking at me what I do? It felt good to turn my neck that way in the moment. Like you said, if you haven't done it, you're going to I've done a couple stupid things well, there was.

Speaker 3 1:22:17

You said something and I wanted to mention it earlier, um, but I was watching. A preacher was talking in a similar podcast and he said you want to be a father, like God is, and sometimes we run away from it, but I want my kid now as a dad and once you become a father to me. It changed my life and then my relationship with God and it's I want my kid to go. Oh my God, I just messed up. I got to call my dad, not. Oh my God, I can't tell my dad. And again, again, it's robert's fault. Whichever answer she says or whatever she thinks is my fault, yeah, so it's. Hey, when she, when stuff hits the fan, my dad's got me.

Speaker 3 1:22:56

That's that's uh, really good, that's a big one to to shoulder as well, because when they don't call, dove just put his hand on john's shoulder and shook his head.

Speaker 2 1:23:07

No, that's got to make you feel good well, who are you calling, though?

Speaker 3 1:23:15

because you got to call somebody there. You go.

Speaker 2 1:23:18

Now the truth comes out.

Speaker 3 1:23:20

That's right, that's what's that movie like? Um, I think it's like ben affleck walks in, he says I need you to help me. We're going to take your car. We can never talk about this again. And it's 3 o'clock in the morning. The guy looks up and says or I think the guy looks up and says whose car are we taking, mine or yours?

Speaker 4 1:23:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:23:41

That's pretty good and that's what dads do for sons. Hey, I need always, I always tell them like when I start worrying, you can worry, but I'll tell you when that time comes and you know, cause that's my job, my job's to take, take that, not them.

Speaker 3 1:23:56

So it's another big thing that men have to.

Speaker 2 1:24:00

Yeah to wear and I don't think that there's stuff that happens at the church that my wife never knows about. I don't want her to's stuff that happens at the church that my wife never knows about.

Speaker 3 1:24:07

I don't want her to know. It doesn't need to. You can't fix it. All you're gonna do is worry about it.

Speaker 2 1:24:10

I do the same thing so you know, I don't want her going in looking at people different, I don't want her to have to shoulder all of it, although she does shoulder, probably more than she should. But you know, that's part of, I think, being a man. And then I do have the, the other men in my life that I can call and I can say, dude, like I think I'm coming unglued, you know, but um, to try to guard them.

Speaker 1 1:24:38

So but yeah, cool you know, my wife, we, we recently were talking about um, just some stuff and, without you know, sharing details or whatever that means.

Speaker 3 1:24:54

It's you, they're talking about us. I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 1:25:00

We're talking about you, know we're talking about you know, we're still in the throes of rearing children yeah, they're 16 and 19, but there's still a big responsibility that we have going through this. And she was saying she said just like you don't tell me every single part of every single decision you make every day there are times when I'm going through stuff with our kids, mothering our kids where.

Speaker 1 1:25:27

I need to make decisions in the moment. I need to have a conversation with them, because when you get to this point, we've learned it's no longer just providing food and shelter. I mean, there's a lot of conversations that happen, yeah, you know, whether it be with my daughter or with my son a lot of conversations that happen that she gets to have. And she said you know, I never I don't come to you and say, hey, how do I need to respond to this? Now, there are times where she does, because it's something bigger. She wants to make sure that we're, that we're in lockstep on on something. And she was telling me.

Speaker 1 1:26:09

She said you don't understand, you don't understand the freedom that you give me in that trust that you've shown in me to be able to handle that stuff. Yeah, and I didn't even know I was doing it. You know, yeah, but um, and that's that and that that's something that's recent, but that's part of um, part of being a man in that way of you know, not trying to be in control of every situation, and that's. I think that's the, that's the um, the unfortunate part of when people think of submission. They think that, okay, you're going to be in control all the time, but that's not true.

Speaker 1 1:26:52

You know you're given space to say hey you, you got this. This is. I trust you.

Speaker 4 1:26:58

Right.

Speaker 2 1:26:59

Yeah, so that was, that was something that she and I recently talked about.

Speaker 3 1:27:04

I think that's so important and a lot of people don't aren't fortunate enough or they didn't recently talked about. I think that's so important and a lot of people aren't fortunate enough or they didn't think about it. I definitely got lucky with it, but having a spouse whether it's the wife or the husband that you can feel that way about Like we tell our daughter, the most important decision you'll ever make is the spouse.

Speaker 4 1:27:19

Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:27:19

You better make sure that it's from God, because again I got lucky.

Speaker 2 1:27:31

If it was up to me, I'd I'd have definitely messed it up, and I've almost messed it up several times since, like it's, I may mess it up tomorrow. Yeah, yeah, I definitely it's. It's the old saying like uh, you know, you married up 100.

Speaker 3 1:27:35

True for me, like you know, um hopefully my wife doesn't listen to this, but I'm the same way I'm married up man like she.

Speaker 2 1:27:44

I don't know too many women that could live with me, just straight up, honest. I mean seriously, she is that good. I really don't think too many people could put up with me. I really don't. I'm definitely in that boat and so I know she's been awesome, even through planting the church and doing all that stuff. Never would have made it without her, and I think that's the partnership God calls in a marriage it hasn't been perfect.

Speaker 2 1:28:14

but I do try to encourage young couples, especially who are about to get married don't fall into the lie that the world tells you about marriage, that it's just a grind. It's just because it can get better every day. You know you're gonna sometimes take two steps forwards, one step back, but like it is a good thing when it's done god's way, you know and but ball and chain, you know, and I'm like dude, no wonder you, your life sucks. No, you call her the old ball and chain, like you know the old lady. I'm like, no wonder you're, no wonder your love life struggles, right, I asked the guy one day he, he, uh he was here in the shop and he referred to his wife as old lady.

Speaker 1 1:29:09

I said at what point did you refer?

Speaker 1 1:29:12

to her as your old lady. Like when did that happen? And then a young guy came in like a few weeks later and he referred to his girlfriend as that. I said buddy, listen, I know you didn't come in here for advice, you just came to get some arrows. We're making them for you right now. I'll have you out of here in five minutes. I said, bud, let me give you some advice. Don't call your girlfriend your old lady. Yeah, Don't call your wife your old lady. Give her more respect than that, you know.

Speaker 4 1:29:43

I said even if you think it's a term of endearment.

Speaker 1 1:29:46

He's like what?

Speaker 5 1:29:48

does that mean I was still on a boat to a guy and he was like, uh, let me think about it, let me go talk, oh, money bags out in the car and I was like, oh, I was like I had to try so hard not to like, just to keep a straight face.

Speaker 1 1:30:09

Yeah, yeah, that was well, that just happened.

Speaker 3 1:30:11

Remember that when it's your time, though it's funny, cause there's so many men. They put so much responsibility on the woman that she's, in my opinion, wasn't meant to have, and then judge her for the job that they should be doing. But she's doing now and it's like man, she so she's everything. She's the yes, the no, the why, the how we pay for everything, and then they complain about the life that they have, while bashing her the whole time, when she's not even supposed to be in that position yeah, absolutely, absolutely it's.

Speaker 2 1:30:40

Uh, I guess the word would be um, I'm not going to try to use a big word because I'm not that smart but it's not worth it, but it's really throwing off your responsibility onto her and then blaming her for not doing the responsibility. You know, and that's not fair.

Speaker 1 1:30:59

Well, we talked about earlier kind of what we started the conversation. We love being able to blame somebody else, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:31:05

Yeah, and and I think we may have talked about this on other episodes but the whole the devil made me do it, or somebody made me do it, and scripture is really clear, like it's your own evil desires that drag you away. I tell people all the time.

Speaker 1 1:31:19

You better be real careful and real sure if you think the devil made you do something yeah, yeah, now did you give in to temptation yeah, maybe, yeah. Did the devil actually make you do something?

Speaker 3 1:31:31

No I don't know, I don't know, yeah, we had a pastor that passed away at a church in Polder that we used to go to and he did a sermon on guardrails and I was like man, that's pretty strong. I know I'm broken, I know I'm flawed, so I make sure I don't do a few things Because I know if I put myself in that situation. We're all men. We all have desires, regardless of what it is, whether it's eating Oreos or doing crack. I tell people all the time my addiction is golf.

Speaker 3 1:32:04

Hitting a golf ball in the middle of the face, pure, in my opinion, is no different. What's that like? By the way, it's pretty good the few times I've got to do it. There's something the other day that said they did a study and it's the same dopamine release as like a hit of heroin or something crazy. Wow. And so I'll tell guys. When we're talking, I was like whether I'm going to a driving range to hit golf balls or you're going to a bar to have a beer or you're going to a bar to have a beer, both of us are doing the same thing to our family and that's not being there. So my addiction is no different than yours and so many people. Oh, that's a little bit different. I'm like, no, it's really not. Go ask my wife and kid and go ask theirs. You don't see your husband two hours every afternoon. That's something I still struggle with because I still want to know an amateur level and be good and do things like that and how do you?

Speaker 2 1:32:45

balance it. Yeah, and that's the thing too, and, and, and if I could tell story after story, story of story of how I've screwed up as a dad, but one of the things that I did have to realize early on when I had young children, I didn't hunt, like there were several years I didn't, I just didn't hunt and I mean it was weird, I got to admit it was weird, but at the same time I didn't really miss it.

Speaker 2 1:33:09

Yeah, and once my oldest got to be three, maybe even maybe two years old, two, three years old, I would set up ground blinds, carry him into the woods, put a sleeping bag down. A lot of times he'd nap. A lot of times he'd wake up. We'd see deer. We killed deer, but I'd take him some gummy bears or something in there and he'd sit there. But it was a definite break from the way I hunted before and sometimes you have to sacrifice those things. So, like you said, you're not absent the whole time. And now my kids are older and we do it together and I have more opportunity. And you know, those days come and I try to encourage a lot of young dads like you're in a season, make the most of it, but it's a season. You know those nights of getting two, three hours of sleep. I remember our first child. I was like I can't do this for the rest of my life, you know, and it but it wasn't, it wasn't you know, now we get three or four and they're I'm the youngest is 14.

Speaker 2 1:34:18

I'm kidding about that, but it's.

Speaker 3 1:34:19

it's one of those things where you don't uh you have to remember those are seasons and be willing to sacrifice. Sometimes that's such a good lesson that somebody told me that actually came from my wife and it was constructions that way, like if you hate your job or if you hate life right now, wait three months yeah like so in construction when it's tough. You don't like pouring footers and doing the rebar and all that wait two weeks yeah, now you're into floor prep.

Speaker 3 1:34:47

You don't like floor prep. Wait two weeks. Now you're building walls. You don't like that. The roof's coming next. That's right now. Fixings are coming in our life's the same way yeah you don't like two month old baby that cries all night? Wait a couple months yeah, they'll sleep through the night. You don't like that part. Now they're gonna be crawling. You don't like crawling now. Now they're going to be running.

Speaker 2 1:35:04

Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to lie. We were eating at a restaurant last night and there was this cute little girl and, um, she was squalling her head off, kicking. You could tell she was just kind of tired and she was about ready for bed and mom had her and you know, the mother had her and and I'm like you know, know, it's kind of sad that my boys are growing up, but I'll be honest, I don't miss that but as soon as that kid got tired and went to sleep, yeah, I was laying on dad's shoulder.

Speaker 2 1:35:35

You're like I miss that yeah, that's the part that's awesome. I remember laying in bed with mine putting their head on my shoulder and and us watching some cartoon or something you know, and and it's kind of odd now if my 22 year old's laying in bed with his head on my shoulder.

Speaker 1 1:35:51

So we don't do that either. I don't know you were doing that last night.

Speaker 2 1:35:56

Oh no, I was laying my head on your shoulder, that's right you were in my room he's like getting my bed dad that's what happens with those two.

Speaker 3 1:36:04

I had to go in there and he's like why are you in here? It's like I just miss of my bed, dad. That's what happens with those two. You got to go in there and it's like why are you in here? It's like I just miss you. Yeah, yeah, come lay on the couch and watch a movie or something Like no, that's weird. What? At what age did it become weird?

Speaker 2 1:36:13

That's right.

Speaker 1 1:36:13

That's right, go back a few years you used to be my little buddy. She'd be in the back seat crying or whatever, and I could reach back and touch her foot and that was enough. She'd stop crying and today I need not touch her foot right.

Speaker 1 1:36:35

Oh yeah, what are you doing? But so, like yesterday, she was going down to Savannah to go out with some friends and stuff and I didn't get to see her before she left because she was babysitting for somebody yesterday and she had to go home straight home from there and get her stuff and get ready and then go to Savannah. So I didn't get to see her. But I called her, was talking with her for a few minutes. I just prayed for her over the phone. I said listen, don't close your eyes. You're driving. She's like no, no, no, I'll keep my eyes open. I prayed for her. I prayed for the time she was going to have, I prayed for the person she was going to be with and everything Finding a way to still have that interaction with her.

Speaker 4 1:37:22

Sorry, Creep Siri Quit listening to us. I know man, but she killed the.

Speaker 1 1:37:31

Moment gosh she did

Speaker 1 1:37:33

but you know being intentional about it, you know I mean just saying all right, I know she's driving, I know she's on the way down there. I didn't get to see her. I'm going, I'm just gonna call her real quick. And you know, we were on the phone for like 10 minutes and she's like dad, I gotta. I got to redo my makeup. I said why Did I hurt your feelings? She said no. I said all right, all right, well, that's cool, get off the phone. I'm like why are girls so weird?

Speaker 3 1:37:56

I remember praying the first time, heather and I were talking.

Speaker 3 1:38:06

That's my kids and all that, and I said a prayer for my daughter's future husband and I was like, oh my God, this is weird, like I'm going to kill that little kid and then and then I had here I am praying for him, like and it, and what's really weird is God, don't make him what I want him to be, making what you want him to be for for my daughter, and to talk about completely humbling like take me out of the picture, and that's hard because that's where I'm living right now.

Speaker 1 1:38:26

You know, these guys are getting interested in Allie and I'm like looking at him and I'm judging the crap out of them.

Speaker 1 1:38:31

I mean I'm going to be, I'm going to be bro, I'm not I'm not like one of those dads that believes in arranged marriages and everything, but I don't think I'm that, far from it. All right, I mean, she's got a little more time and I'm going to step in. I'll be like all right, hang on, here's what we're going to do. But no, I'm just kidding. But yeah, I mean I've been praying for years for both of their spouses and I have no idea who they are.

Speaker 1 1:38:59

I don't know where they are, I don't know their name, I don't know what color they are, what their hair looks like. I don't know any of that. But God does, and I want him to take care of them. I want God to keep my daughter's future husband pure. I want him to keep my son's future wife pure. I want him to grow them to be who he wants them to be. I don't care what they do. I don't care where they're be. I don't care what they do. I don't care where they're from. I don't care about any of that. I care more about their character, and that's been my prayer for years, because I know partly that I'm going to struggle with that.

Speaker 4 1:39:41

And.

Speaker 1 1:39:41

I want whoever's going to marry my daughter to be about protecting her. Yeah, absolutely. You know, in every way, not just physically, you know there's so much more that goes into that, and I want him to be a man. That's what I want.

Speaker 3 1:39:54

And what's crazy, my wife and I had this conversation too. So many men think the physical side is what makes you a man.

Speaker 4 1:39:59

That's really the easier part oh gosh. Yeah.

Speaker 3 1:40:02

I feel like, especially in today's world, you're not fighting off saber-toothed tigers and things like that. It might be a guy that says something and really you shouldn't be looking to be fist fighting there. It should be hey, man, have a good night and just take her to safety. Yeah, yeah. So really the hard part is doing the disciplined things getting up at 5 am to go provide for them when you don't want to. You know whether it's.

Speaker 3 1:40:21

One of my first jobs in in savannah was cleaning toilets yeah, it's the only thing I could find at the time and it was like man, this sucks, but I can't let my significant other do that stuff. That's, that's all me to do. So it's, I think, so many men um, at least men that I grew up with. If you had the physical side down, that was being a man and then now becoming a father. It's paying the bills, going to work, making sure you have a job, helping with homework, being present after school that's more difficult than just you fought off some bad guy.

Speaker 3 1:40:51

Wouldn't that happen once in 10 years?

Speaker 1 1:40:53

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:40:55

Yeah, my oldest is getting married in October, and so that makes you feel old.

Speaker 3 1:41:02

All boys, you said you have.

Speaker 2 1:41:03

Yeah, three boys, and so my oldest is getting married and his his fiance man.

Speaker 2 1:41:09

like she's so awesome, like we're so blessed with her and we've joked before, like if y'all don't get married, like we're keeping her um because she's just this, that special, so we're so thankful for that um, but looking forward to that too in october. But it does. It makes you like holy cow, like I'm old enough to to have a son that's getting married, you know and um, but. But it's exciting too and knowing that he's got a a good, a good future wife who loves the Lord, and you know that's so encouraging and comforting to know that, so that's cool.

Speaker 1 1:41:50

Good deal, all right, you got anything else you want to say, mr Dub?

Speaker 3 1:41:56

You're so talkative today it's been hard to get a word in.

Speaker 1 1:41:58

Mr Fat Boy, you got something else you want to say? Nope, you all good, all right, we'll put it up right there. Robert, we appreciate you being here yeah, thank you for the invite.

Speaker 3 1:42:06

That's awesome.

Speaker 1 1:42:07

Enjoy talking with you um, talking about all kinds of different things and and uh, yeah, we'll do it again, I'm sure. All right, kill it.