The Courageous Leaders Podcast
The Courageous Leaders Podcast aims to inspire leaders to step into their courageous zone, be the leader they know they can be and discover the mindset skills and behaviours to take their leadership to the next level.
So listen in, get inspired on how you can grow your leadership impact. Leave a legacy you can be proud of, and build an environment for future leaders to thrive.
Who is Joanna Howes?
Joanna Howes is an award-winning international coach, behavioural expert, specialising in leadership and performance coaching and No 1 best selling international co-author.
Her focus is to help individuals and teams activate their full potential, so they can step into their courageous zone to maximise their influence, build their resilience and take the action needed to become high performers and future-ready leaders.
Joanna is a unique phenomenon within her industry, with over 20 years’ experience working internationally with some of the world's most awarded advertising agencies and leading them to operational and leadership success. Her blend of both innovative operational and transformative change solutions empowers organisations to create environments that are supportive and fearless for their employees.
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The Courageous Leaders Podcast
Esther Marshall on Grief, High Achievement, Emotional Resilience & Holding It All Together
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Some people don’t just achieve, they achieve as though their life depends on it. In this deeply honest episode of The Courageous Leaders Podcast, I sit down with Esther Marshall, former global gender diversity leader at Unilever and founder of Sophie Says, to ask a question so many of us avoid: who are you when achievement isn’t enough?
This is a conversation about grief, high achievement, emotional resilience, and the pressure of holding everything together when life refuses to cooperate. Esther shares her story with extraordinary openness: losing her sister Rebecca to suicide, caring for grandparents through Alzheimer’s, a miscarriage during IVF, and losing her mother to pancreatic cancer, all while building a business and refusing to stop proving herself. It is also the story of the breakthrough that finally let her stop failing quietly and start succeeding loudly. If you have ever tied your worth to what you achieve, this one will stay with you.
If you or someone you know is affected by anything discussed in this episode, you can contact Samaritans free, 24/7, on 116 123 or at samaritans.org.
What We Cover:
00:00 Intro
01:30 Why "High Achiever" Can Tip Into "Never Enough"
04:41 Climbing the Ladder at Unilever, and Being "Hard to Manage"
10:14 Leading a Team When Your Standards Are Sky High
11:37 The Maternity Leave Project That Became Sophie Says
14:29 Losing Rebecca to Suicide
16:34 The Book Written the Night She Passed Away
20:21 The Rainbow, and Learning to Let People In
21:29 Carrying a Legacy, and the Weight That Comes With It
23:08 Alzheimer's, and Grief That Wouldn't Stop
24:18 IVF, Miscarriage, and Learning to Keep Going
25:48 The "Miracle" Baby, and a Mother's Pancreatic Cancer Diagnosis
30:13 Why She Chose to Run a Marathon the Day Her Mum Died
34:52 The Therapy Breakthrough That Changed Everything
38:46 "I'm Failing Quietly, but I Want to Succeed Loudly"
41:00 Building Sophie Says Into a Movement for Generational Change
48:53 Learning to Walk Before Running Again
50:13 A Message for Anyone Sitting in Fear, Ready to Begin
51:40 What Courage Really Means to Esther
Key Reflections:
• Why high achievement can quietly become a form of self-harm
• Why grief isn't something you "get over," and why returning to normal too quickly often makes healing harder
• How to separate your self-worth from your achievements and results
• Why asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness
• How changing the way you frame a failure can completely reshape your life
• Why children need emotionally safe parents, not perfect ones
Esther’s honesty is a reminder that courage isn’t the absence of pain, it’s getting up and showing up through it. If this episode moves you, I’d love to hear your biggest takeaway in the comments.
Find out more about Sophie Says: https://www.sophiesaysofficial.com/
Follow Esther Masrshall:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sophiesaysofficial/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thegrievingfounder
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