Nimarta Verma | On Resume Writing and Authenticity

Nimarta Verma is CEO and Chief Strategist of Disruptor Brand. She helps brands and leaders to tell their stories louder and make marketing easier.

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Transcript

Nimarta: 0:00

And it was not a surprise that she did given that, you know, she really did stand out when she wrote it that way

James: 0:11

hello, and welcome to graduate theory. My guest today is a brand strategist and marketing trainer on a mission to disrupt the marketing world and help brands with the vision. Cut through the noise. She has grown businesses and their marketing across 50 industries in 10 different countries. She's currently a CEO and achieved strategists of marketing consultants. Disruptive brand when my guests serves brands and the latest, tell this story louder and make marketing easier. Please. Welcome to the show. And in Malta, WIOA.

Nimarta: 0:49

Thank you so much, Greg.

James: 0:52

It's great to have you here, Nevada. Today, I really want to dive into the job application process with you. Cause I know it's something you're quite passionate about and something that you've really tied in the marketing side of things through your career, into the way that you apply the jobs and that whole process. So I want to ask my first question. How has your experience in your attempts at getting a job with, with the resume and the coupler and things like that? How, how has that process for you change over time?

Nimarta: 1:22

Yeah, really the question I think I started out and I dare say it's probably similar to a lot of new graduates that stat up with their resume and. Job application process is that, you know, we, we find a template or we're told that a certain template to follow and, you know, I write in a way that's really professional and I use jargons. Like I'm enthusiastic, I'm a problem solver. I am responsible, you know, those terms like that go for interviews and just really. Say what answer and say what the other person wants to hear. And I don't ask my own questions and my approach has really much been, I'm just grateful to get interviewed and hopefully they give me a job and I'm going to say anything to get the job. So that's really how it started and where, you know, where it's evolved to now is that I've been able to inject. My own story and personality into my resume and cover letters. I brought, you know, authenticity to them and people really get a sense of who I am from reading those things. And when I am face-to-face with them, there's still nerves. I think there's always going to be nerves, but it's now it's conversation. It's really about letting them get to know me and also me getting to know them. And it really is about. Two potties, both deciding, are we right for each other?

James: 3:02

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. I'm so interested to talk about this with you, because you know, you do have quite a few. View on this and a unique process for doing this sort of thing. And what does your resume look like now? Cause I know that you, you have that marketing, like you said, you'd like to do things sort of a little bit unconventional with your resume. What are some of those things and like, how do you actually structure your resume?

Nimarta: 3:29

Yeah. So I, first of all, it's, it's, there's, it's colorful, not too much color, but there's a play with two colors. So I make it look, you know, there is that color element to it. I do put a photo of me. A lot of people say, don't do it. It's frowned upon. I just think that people might want to, you know, get a sense of who they're speaking to. So I put a photo of me smiling, not like a. You know, set photo like that actually like me smiling. And I start out with a little bit of a summary. A lot of people write in this summary, something like, you know, looking to Excel in a blah-blah-blah cluster, customer service capacity in a, and like something like that. Yes. So what I write in my summary is something like, you know, marketing strategists. I've worked across these industries. I'm really looking to now widen my skillset into this area or that area. And you know, I'm interested in strategy. I love solving problems. I find you know, businesses really challenging and exciting, and you know, that those are the things that I'm passionate about. So it's really. Is a summary of me and my career and what I, what I want to be doing next. I'm not trying to sweet talk them that I'm here to serve them or anything like that at that point. And then I still structure it like a typical resume in the sense that it's chronological, you know, stats from the latest job, my latest experience to the earliest experience. But what's different is that for each of the roles. I don't just go, I don't just write bullet points of roles and responsibilities. In fact, I, I don't have anything about roles and responsibility. I write a few lines about, you know, in this role, he is what really, he's what I did. He is what really excited me about this role. He is why I left and he is what I'm most proud of. And I should tell that story consistently through each role. So you'll see, you'll, you'll get a sense of you read the whole thing or, you know, the hiring manager will get a sense of, ah, she is working in this capacity and then she left for that reason. Or she did this, or, you know, this is why she made that choice. It really tells a story of my career before. And I also include things I've learned, Hey, from this role, this really challenged me. And here's one of the most valuable lessons I learned was X, Y, Z. It, you know, so, so it really does tell the story of my career pretty much.

James: 5:59

Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That's quite unique. And certainly most people would be, you know, I guess almost everyone has like this sort of cookie cutter type prisoner, like T here. And he like, here's my three that I did little like whatever. And so it's interesting to hear that. You would do things quite differently. And it's quite, I think, I think the way you're doing it is a lot more personal, right. Because you're actually

james-2022-3-3__20-10-51: 6:23

like often

James: 6:24

the your resume. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. Because the person reading it is a person too, and they probably have similar thoughts. Right. And they're not just like, you know, so I think it does. does that. Hmm.

Nimarta: 6:38

Yeah. absolutely. They have bought to death. Oh, rating the same kinds of CVS. And over again, you just cover the name. It's all the same. And everybody uses those Dagens and buzzwords and everyone puts little keywords on their CVS, you know? Yeah. So I've been in that position as well to read CVS. Thinking to myself, like, oh, just give me something, just give me some sense of that. You're a human. I just want to know somebody.

James: 7:07

Yeah, totally.

Nimarta: 7:09

Yeah. so I try and I try and do that. The word is humanized my CV as much as possible.

James: 7:14

And that's cool. And do you think that that has worked or do you think like over the times that you've used it? I mean, it's probably hard to compare because you're kind of it's econ. I mean, other than if you ever have the, you know, the sort of AB testing, right. Where you might apply for five jobs using one and five using the other, and then maybe it's still quite a small sample, but you could maybe see if there's some difference. I wonder if it's unlikely that have you done that, or I don't know, but What was the outcome of that?

Nimarta: 7:41

Look, as you say, right, it's still a small sample, but I will definitely say that I got more of a response from the ones where it was more Call it like storified a CV and humanized CV compared to the template at one, you know, even if the response was, Hey, thanks for sending it through. You know, we're not, you're probably not right for us, even if it was to reject me, but at least it was some kind of response versus a template w plan template at once. I found that I really didn't get that many responses. It was just kind of, you know, you send a CV off into this vortex. Silence. Nothing. You get nothing back.

James: 8:23

definitely. So if that's the case, then, you know, what would, how would you take someone's resume and make it more. Like more personalized, more like down to worth, you know, more storified, you know, like of, how do you take, someone's raising my from this kind of coding cookie kind of thing into, and sort of turn it into that. Is there anything that you would, you know, you'd first look at it and say I've had, this is probably going to make the biggest difference and then like, we'll of these other things, like, is there anything that you would, how you approach that.

Nimarta: 8:55

Yeah, So I've done this quite a bit because I have helped a lot of people with their CVS as well. So I start off with really just having them talk to me. About who they are and what they w you know, what they want, like who they are in life, what do they want, what do they believe in? What do they care about? Like, I want to get them out, right. Because a lot of people are so concerned. I've got to write the CV that everybody wants to see or wants to read. So they're more thinking about what does the other person want to see? How do I say those kinds of the right thing to say? So I always try to get them out of the mindset of there's no right thing to say. We just want to tell your story. So I always ask them about them, you know, and I always ask them, okay, you did this role here. You know, tell me more about what was the, what did you do? What was that like? They'll start to telling me. And I usually what really works is I ask them, you know, what did you really enjoy the most about that role? And they'll say something. And I was like, that's great. Write that down. And there'll be like, really? I said, Yeah. write that down. So then they write that. Great. You know, what was, what was, what were you really proud about? What did you accomplish in that role that you were really proud of? Tell me, then they tell me it's like, oh, that's great. Write that down. You know, was there anything you learned? Was there a lesson that was really valuable? Great. Write that down. So I really try and get their side of it. And I tell them to remove these like, you know, list of roles and responsibilities. Like, no, you don't need to get into that. You know, if you wanna, if your job is really complicated, like you're doing something with data processing and nobody knows what you do. You could just say one line about it. You don't need to list out everything you do. And, and rather tell the story of it, then, then do like lists. And then I also then look to remove any jargons. So for me, words that I see right away in they're red flags and I just removed them right away. I words like enthusiasts, stick, passionate, responsible, strategic problem solver you know, excellent communicator team player, you know, any words like that. Spot. I like that. That's got to go. Cause it's just another cliche. It doesn't paint a picture of who this person is.

James: 11:12

Yeah. Yeah, I think that's cool when it's it's it's very interesting to hear. Hear that because I, yeah, certainly those kinds of things. I like most likely I can't remember mine, but most certainly on mine and if not on almost every ones. So I think that's really interesting. The kind of, yeah. Putting yourself using different words to describe yourself today, even, almost making your resume unique rather than one that looks almost the same as everyone else's. you're saying earlier with like the colors and stuff as well. Yeah.

Nimarta: 11:41

yeah, and I think especially your new graduate, right? Like a lot of new graduates that I work with. They don't have a lot of relevant work experience yet. Right. So, you know, some, some of them have worked at cafes. They worked in retail. They've done internships, right? They are now want to apply for a job in their profession. Then we've really got to ride out those experiences in a way that. I tried to find a way to link it to there. You know, how, how has that experience, how does the skills I've learned through doing a job in retail? How will that benefit them in a job in accounting or in marketing, whatever the industry they're in. So I, I then focus on that, you know, I go, great. What are the skills you learned in retail? And they might tell me some things like, okay, great. So now you're going to become an accountant. How do you think that's going to help you as an account? And they might say, oh, you know, I can have, it's going to help me like communicate better that. Great. Okay. We'll talk about that. So we want to find a way to make those connections because we've got a assume that the person reading is lazy. They're not going to connect the dots. We've got to help them connect the dots. And then I then try and get, bring out more of the story in their summary. what what makes him passionate about that industry that they're in or that, you know, why do you want to become a marketer? Why do you want to become an engineer? Like, let's talk about that. And usually there's something about them ever since they were child, they were curious about something. So I try and bring that story out and tell that story from the, from the beginning and in the cover letter, in the summary, because as a new graduate, you don't have a lot going for you in terms of. You know, as I said before, like the experience side of things, you just, it's just the reality of being a new graduate. So how do you then tell your story and engage with people that way? And I think the mistake that a lot of new graduates think is that they think the grade or the e-com academy accomplishments is going to carry the day. And the reality is that's not what hiring managers look for. They may glance at it, but they really are interested to hear. Who you are and whether or not your going to come into that company and really fit culturally and work well with them.

James: 13:57

Yeah, that's really cool. When I, I like what you saying? You know, getting a job is like, know almost you want to enter into a relationship with yourself and the company. Right. And and if the company isn't right for you, then you don't really want to work there either. I think a lot of this personalization and things like that, it's really putting yourself out there a lot more. And so perhaps, you know, companies might not like it as much, but I think the companies that do like you are going to like your life. From that, just because you're sharing more of yourself, I mean, yeah. Do you, is D do you agree with that?

Nimarta: 14:34

Yeah, absolutely like yours. This is now you're talking my language in terms of marketing. Right. I'm always telling my. Not everybody has to like you or what Dubai your brand. But those who do then those are the ones that you want and there's room for everybody. It's, you know, as long as we don't have to think in terms of desperation and scarcity, which is not, there's a, there's a right job for everybody. There's a right role for everybody. We don't, we don't need to, you know, you can get a job in a company that doesn't fit you. You're going to be miserable or you won't last long. Anyway. know, what's the point.

James: 15:12

yeah, no, that's true. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. W what what mistakes do you think people make in their resume? And, you know, I guess we can use here. You mentioned that you were actually someone that was looking at people's resumes, you know, I guess that perspective, and then also your own where you're sort of helping people create those. What are some things that you've seen in people's resumes way aligned? Okay. So definitely don't do that. Oh, like, don't do that. So whatever, is there any like general big mistakes you see people making?

Nimarta: 15:44

Yeah. So what I said before about using the buzzword, like the jargons, like passionate, those kind of words making it really long in terms of, it's not about the lens. Look, if you're, if you're really telling a story about. It's it's then not a turnoff. Like I think my CVS is like two pages or something, so it's not like a short CV. But there's ones where it's like just lists and lists of here's all my roles and accountabilities. Like they probably took it from their job description and just dumped it on the CV and it really adds no value to the person reading it. So I wouldn't recommend doing that. Lots of long lists about he is all of the skillsets that I like, like my proficiencies, you know, I'm a good communicator. I'm a good team player. I know these programs like, yeah, show some in some specializations you should list what programs, you know, and, and it's of interest. But, you know, I see a lot of CVS, at least I know Microsoft word, Excel, PowerPoint, email. Excuse me. You don't need to tell us that. Okay. So yeah, I think it resumes that are overloaded with detail is a mistake. And I don't recommend it. Like the thing, I think the biggest mistake is the mindset more than anything. The mindset of when people write this CV, James and that mindset is that this CV is going to get me the job. And I always tell anyone I work with that. The CV is not meant to get you the job and they always have a shocked look on their face. What do you mean? And I go, the CV CVS meant to get you the interview, and I'm going to want to interview someone that intrigues me, that I want to learn more about. You tell me every little thing, every little detail about you in a resume. That's already boring me to death. I don't need to know more. And I may not even want me to feel the need to interview you. So you want to leave a little bit of mystery, a little bit of intrigue, like, oh wow. That's interesting. Leave them wanting more leave than wanting to talk to you about some of those things that you wrote about

James: 17:55

Yeah, I think that's really cool. I'm not certainly saying that in myself and I'm sure lots of people, you know, don't consider is that yeah. The resume is not for like getting you to the end, you know, it's just getting you to the next step of the process. I think that's so in how you

james-2022-3-3__20-10-51: 18:12

resume and that

James: 18:13

sort of thing, as you're putting in there. Yeah, definitely. I'll like, perhaps we can talk about, you know, your own experience with this. And, you know, you mentioned you were doing some AB testing with your resume. I wonder if there's any other times where you sort of played with this personal touch. Is there any, has there been any, you know, like you were saying, your people like kind of it's obviously. Different to receive writers to get a resume. That's a bit out of the ordinary, but has there been, have any interesting experiences with this personal touch?

Nimarta: 18:46

Yeah. I, once I was looking for a job and I just got so sick of it and desperate, like not desperate to get the job, but I was just so sick of this whole process and I just. So fake, like, oh man, what am I doing with my life? And just this moment at like 10:00 PM at night, on a week, week not. And I just wrote this CV from a rope, his cover letter from scratch. So this company and I was saying things like, look, I'm just going to tell you, first of all, some truths. And I said things like, I'm not a really good employee. I really don't like being. It's tied to a chair or sit in one place and being told what time to come and what time to leave. And I really hate that side of working. I really, I read your job at, and I don't know. I don't know if I believe it I'm skeptical. You know, you talk about a great culture. Everybody says that what's the catch. And I said things like, you know, I really wish that the person reading this is just someone who is another human being like me, who. What a, what an ordeal it is to having to talk myself up to somebody that I don't even know through this letter and how, how yucky that that is and how much I just really want to find fulfillment, enjoy, you know, role. And, you know, you have someone who gets it, hopefully we can talk and really see if we're a match for each other. And that was the most honest letter that I ever wrote. And I remember. Having like butterflies in my stomach as I emailed it off and I just went, wow, I don't know what I've done. And I showed it to my husband just to kind of get a sense check. Like maybe it's not too bad and he read it and he's he was like, did you send this? I said, Yeah, I did. He was like, whoa. And I thought, oh man, what's going to happen. And I sent it off like about 10:00 PM that night and the next day, my phone rings even before midday. And it was this company calling and it wasn't just the manager who was hiring for that position. It was a CEO Callie. And he said to me, you know, the HR person forwarded me this, cut your letter and said, I have to read this. So he said, I read it. And I read it a number number of times. And it's the most incredible and honest thing that I've read ever in, in someone's application. I don't really think this role is for you, but I still want to talk to you and maybe we could create a role for you because I think you'd be a great fit for us. So that was, that was a really cool experience. That was incredible to receive that kind of reassuring feedback from something that was so

James: 21:19

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that's crazy. That is, yeah. That's pretty incredible. Cause yeah, I'll often, you know, I guess even myself I've thought of, you know, I'm probably my cover letter, perhaps I would just, you know, pass, we'll just throw this way on writing you on where it's just like, you know, this I'm James. I did it. It did it like, you know, kind of like you're saying a bit more fun, a bit more. This is just who I am. Yeah. exactly. And I scrapped to hear that you had such a good experience with that because I think, yeah, it's, it's incredible. What what that stuff can do. Definitely. I want to perhaps talk a bit now about interviews and things like that. And I know like you, you know, you've done a lot of these and you probably help people with this kind of thing as well. You know, when you coming into an interview, lots of people will come. You know, they'll have like the nervous butterflies, and they'll even think that that's connects with negatively impact their sort of experience like, you know, in the interview. Cause they're so freaked out that, that like it's, now they get asked a question and they're like, oh, I can just, it, you know, you know, like preparing in that way is often unhelpful, you know, how have you dealt with that and the nerves and things like that in the past. And yeah, I'm interested to hear that because it was a, it's a big problem. I think that people know.

Nimarta: 22:39

yeah, I think at the beginning, right. I just felt like I just really didn't deal with it. Put on a show, like pretend that I was okay when I was really just sweating and nerves everywhere and trying to be cool. But then after you have to use now having done that and having been on the other side of it, where I saw that the candidates were really nervous and I was the interviewer and I thought, oh, that's so funny. Like then over was, you know, I was on the, I used to be on that other set. So it gave me an understanding of what it feels like to be. On the interviewer side. And what I, what I now realize is that people can tell and people understand and empathize with that. It is a nerveracking experience. Like everybody has even the interview where you're speaking to, they've also been interviewed. So everybody understands it. And sometimes I feel like even just acknowledging that, oh man, I'm really nervous. Like that actually is such a great ice breaker. And sometimes as an interviewer, like I actually say to the person, I go, look, I get it. If it isn't all, what's a wee bit nervous, you know. you want to do and have a glass of water. Do you want to take up your code? Like it's okay. Just relax. Like it's fun. And yeah, that's fine. That you're nervous. And I find that they are really appreciative that I've, that I've said that to them. So I then learned when I, now, when I have interviewed after that, Just to acknowledge it. Just be like, oh, I didn't think I was going to be so nervous. I've done this a lot, but I'm still nervous. And the other person it's like, it's almost like this refreshing moment that you share with another human where they're like, oh, I'm so glad this person's honest. And it's like, you've now addressed the elephant in the room and you just, it just stops being heavy. I promise you the minute you just go, oh, I'm feeling a bit nervous, but I'm excited to be here. It just stops being heavy and you just find yourself connecting with another human. So I think the biggest thing I recommend is just to own that you're nervous. Don't try and pretend you're not. Don't try and be cool and bake it just, just own it.

James: 24:46

Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's really good advice and definitely calling it out while you're in. There is something that perhaps can be hard to do, but certainly, you know, almost come through a lot of that, a lot of that nervousness as well. I mean, as if, as you, your experience interviewing and as you've interviewed, what are some interviews that you've done and interviews that perhaps that you've participated in with someone else that's going for the job, what are some things that you've seen in those interviews? Or what are some common things in good interviews? Yeah. That you've seen or, you know, and, and then how, what, like what could someone do I guess, to make their interview better? And yeah, I guess from your experiences in the past, you know, what things make a good interview for yourself?

Nimarta: 25:30

Yeah. So I think that it's always good to be prepared and I know it's a cliche thing to say. But it really does offer some value. When you go in having done a little bit of research about the company. And not like you have to be able to recite back what this company does, but you at least come with some questions or some thoughts about this company or about how this company's positioned in their industry or, you know, what you've seen them do. So it always is. And it's, I think a lot of people don't know. Thinking that it's, it will be impressive to do that. Like they want to impress the interviewer. I don't look at it from that. That it's impressive. I think it just offers a more, a rich conversation and a more honest conversation when you're able to really, you're not scared about what, what, what they're gonna ask, because you kind of go look, I've read your website. Here's what I understand so far. Here's the parts I don't really understand. At least you can have some conversation about it. So I think that's the number one. Knowing, you know, being prepared and forming your own opinions about, oh, this is what I've you know, thought about your, what you, what you guys do, but he is what, you know, he has also what I'm curious about. So being prepared and having your form, your own, your own views, I think really helps the discussion.

James: 26:50

Yeah, definitely. I think that's great. Cause I think often, yeah, reset. Obviously you want to know where you're working before you apply that. Right. But I think too, like it's, it's useful to go that way a deeper, like you've suggested where you're finding out perhaps what the values are of the company and kind of one of the that they do. And like you said, what are the. Perhaps you confused by and you want clarity on when you're actually in the, I think that's, that's great at Boston and yeah. Certainly shows that you're, you're, you're actually really interested in, in pursuing SNS things that you, you want to sort of work out with them as well. I think that's really great.

Nimarta: 27:25

And I think the other thing is will James, like not being afraid to ask questions? I said before, like earlier in my early years I was really scared to ask questions. Cause I just want it to be the good girl who ticked off the boxes for them. And, you know, they would always ask you at the end, do you have any questions? And I was like, no, no, no, it's all good. Like being so eager. I think that's actually not helpful because in the end it also doesn't give you a sense. Well, first of all, you don't have your questions answered, but flood them as well. Like it helps the hiring manager know your thought process. When you ask questions, it helps them understand, oh, this is where this person is thinking from. That's what the value. One of my recent interviews for a brand role and it was a pet food brand, and I've done some research and saw some negative reviews of this pet food brand and saw that, you know, some animals have had the, had the food and had a bad reaction to it and were hospitalized and didn't have a good outcome. So that was one of my questions. I said, look, I want to know about your product. I want to know about your quality control process. I read these reviews. Have you done anything to resolve it? Is it true? What what's happened with this. And I said, you know, I love animals. I love dogs. I can't work for a brand that I can't have it be part of a company that produces food that makes animal sick. Like that's the one. Okay. So, you know, I want to know. And in fact that was really like one of the memorable things that the interviewer then said to me, I ended up getting the job and she said to me, you know, I could tell you really cared. And I want someone like that and really does care, you know?

James: 28:58

Yeah, that's a great story. Certainly. I think there's yeah. Liz must be a lot of value in, there is a lot of value. Yeah, going the extra step and you're really being careful about, you know, the things you think and, you know, having your values aligned with the company values too, I think is, is really cool. thanks for listening to this episode of graduate theory. If you haven't already subscribed to the graduate theory newsletter you can do so by at the links in the show notes, the graduate theory newsletter comes out every single Tuesday morning with my thoughts and lessons from each episode. But without further ado, let's get back into it. I'd love to touch on as well. Cause I know obviously marketing is something you're really passionate about and it's been something you've done your whole career. And I want to talk about that and kind of how that aligns with your, your personal brand. You know, branding yourself and things like that. And even perhaps how that ties into your resume and things like that. I mean, what are some things that you've taken from marketing and then applied in these different arenas, like w Padilla, whether it's personal branding or even, you know, back to the application process that we've been speaking.

Nimarta: 30:07

Yeah, I think. A lot actually. So I'll kind of say things, but one of the things definitely is around keeping in mind, like who's the target audience, right? So from a marketing lens, I'm always looking at who's the target audience for these? What are their frustrations? What are they really thinking? What are they really concerned about? What do they really care about? And when I create any marketing material or marketing communications, I'm always speaking to those concerns and addressing those concerns or acknowledging that. I know that these are your concerns level, blah. He is what we're doing to resolve it, you know, with this brand, the same applies when I write CVS or help people with their CVS and cover letters that I always, first of all, ask them, you know, who's, who's hiring for this role. Like tell me more about the person hiring. So, okay. They are a you know, C level executive. Great. What, what are their frustrations? What really frustrates them? What are they looking for? What is it about the whole. Process of filling this role that has really frustrated them or what, what might be some things that they look for in this candidate of this role? So when we start to look at it from that lens, we're now writing our CV's to address those things. You know, we were acknowledging that, Hey, these are the things that you're worried about. He is, he is some of the answers. He has some of the things that I can say about that. And then you keep that in mind as well for the interview. And it allows you then to be able to talk to them from where they're coming from and be more empathetic of their needs. So that's really key. One key thread that I kind of pull across from the marketing world to the job application world. And the next part is really about telling the, telling the story and being, you know, differentiating myself. So as a brand, I'm working with clients to help different shades and help them stand out. So we're always looking at, you know, what is it that makes them different? And it's going to be a combination of things that I like rational things, you know, it may be like your skill sets and you've got this experience or you've worked in this company. That's a really good name. That's really rare. And then it's also going to be, then there's another touch of it, which is like, I call it like the emotional side. So you know who you are, what you believe in. Same applies to a brass. I look at that in both in a person and go great. Let's look at the, the experience and technical side of things that makes you different. Let's make sure we tell that story. And now let's look at, you know, you like you, what do you believe in, what do you care about? What matters to you? And let's talk about that too. So we it's a dance between those two things. And one other thing that. One of the techniques are really pulling out that differentiation is that some, not everybody has experiences that line up to exactly to the industry. You know, I was, I once helped someone who worked works in car works as a construction project manager. Like she wanted to find a role in construction, project management, and she had a background in accounting. And a lot of times people get intimidated by that like switching industries and what I did in that case for her was I said, okay, well, let's have a look at, you've got this background in accounting. How is that going to give you an edge over everybody else? Who's only been a project manager and never had. Never's done. Accounting. What do you have that you bring to your job? And she started to tell me she's like, you know, project medicine, don't look at numbers. I always look at the numbers and I always am able to flag it up front when the numbers don't line up, because I've got that accounting brain. I'm like, that's gold. We're going to say that that's not in your CV at all. She's like, oh,

James: 33:56

mm.

Nimarta: 33:57

like, yeah. You know, so we, so we find a way to tell these. Stories these gold nuggets of what makes you different, what you bring that nobody else can bring. And yeah, she ended up getting that job. And it was not a surprise that she did given that, you know, she really did stand out when she wrote it that way.

James: 34:20

I think that's really cool. And I love that point. You made about, you know, differentiating, differentiating yourself because you're in marketing, you know, differentiating yourself in the market, but then, you know, how do we think about that in a career sense? And when we're looking at your regimen and like you said, even with that example, like bring that, you know, the, the things that you can do that no one else can do and really bringing that to the forefront, I think is really, really cool and certainly a great use of, the marketing and that side of things. Yeah. I want to ask you now, you know, a bit more about your career and the things that you've done, because you've been to many different companies. You've, you know, you've been all across a lot of industries and you've helped a lot of businesses within what you do. So you've certainly been to a lot of places I want to ask. Has there been a time in your career or something that You know, well, actually I'm gonna, I'm gonna go a different direction. You know, what's some career advice that you've seen that is, is not very good advice that you would say to someone who's sort of following a certain path again, that is not, you know, from, in my experience that you're sort of making a mistake with that. Is there any bad advice that you've seen in the Korea spear

Nimarta: 35:31

oh man, I like that question. I have probably gotten a little better bus, so let me think through some of them. I think one went bad. One of us, I think is a better. People say things like I'll just stick to it, stick to the job that you like. You don't want to be seen as leaving a job too early. You want to work at least a year or two years. I remember wanting to quit my job and I was there for four years and still people around me were like, ah, but it's going to show that you are not committed. It's going to show blah, blah, blah. You know, if you look at my resume, I've never worked in any role for me. For years was the longest. And then now those were like six month contract, one year, two years. I don't know things like that. So I think that whole thing about you got to stick to a job and work there for 10 years and 20 years, you know, I think that's old school. I think maybe there was a time for that. Not certainly my mum did that and it worked for her and you know, a lot of people have seen in previous generations. Now is that, is that relevant? I don't think people care about it that much.

James: 36:36

Yeah, certainly. I agree. I think now, you know, Korea mobility. It's even easier, even with things like remote work and things like that. When now we're not even constrained to where we live as to where you can work. I think things like that up a lot more opportunities and it means that, you know, you can find new jobs a lot easier, even if it's through like, you know, online job advertisements in assignments or, you know, reasonably racing. It's something sort of about maybe 15 to 20 years old is that kind of whole thing. So suddenly I think that, you know, the idea of job, my ability, and even being out of fond jobs that you can. Has really opened up a lot of doors, young people. Definitely. I've got one last question for you, Nevada. And that's a question that I ask all the guests that come on the show, and it's almost a flip of the previous question, but you know, like part of the graduate theories, you know, career advice and how can young people really grow their careers? That's some great advice for me to not, but you know, what's some advice that you would give to young people who are starting their career today.

Nimarta: 37:39

Yeah, I think really the, the biggest thing is like, it's not life and death and I'll elaborate on that. It's it's not the end of the world. Like. Korea is not the Korea. Doesn't need to be the career you end up with for the rest of your life. And you can change your mind and you can change your mind 2000 times, and you can switch industries and switch careers and say, or be 10 years into a career and go, I'm really bored of that. I'm going to go do, do a degree, do different degree and go to different routes. I think there's a lot of stress I see about. 18 19 20 year olds trying to map out the rest of their life. You, you just can't, you know, you don't need to, you know, need to know what you're going to be doing for the rest of your life. Just, you just need to know what's the next thing right then. And there do that next thing. If it fulfills you and you love it. Great. Keep at it. If it doesn't then, you know, don't, don't say, oh, go back and go. Okay, well that doesn't fulfill me. What, what else should I be doing? And don't be afraid to change and switch. Change your mind.

James: 38:51

Yeah, I think that's great advice, certainly in certainly saying that young people today and, you know, can really take on board with thanks so much for your time today, Nevada. If people are listening and they want to find out more about yourself, I want to connect with you further. Where should they go to, to find out more about you?

Nimarta: 39:08

Yeah. Look, I think LinkedIn is probably the best way to, come and. Find out more about me and read. So things that I share and connect with me, send me a message, add me as a connection. So find me on LinkedIn, look up new motto Burma. And you'll see that I show up there. Or if you want to find out a little bit more about my consultancy side of things and the website is disruptor brand.com and you? can check me out that way.

James: 39:36

great. We'll leave all your links in the show notes and descriptions so that if people want to find out more, it's just below wherever you're listening. Well, yeah. Thanks so much for your time again today, Nevada and we'll hopefully see your ancy.

Nimarta: 39:50

no problem. It's great to chat. Thanks for having me.

James: 39:58

Thanks so much for listening to this episode I'll hope you got something out of it. And I certainly did. If you haven't already please consider subscribing to the graduate theory newsletter. You get the episode and my takeaways straight to your inbox every single week. Thanks so much for listening again today. And I look forward to seeing you in the next episode.