#124 | Into The Bat Cave | Jamal & Dr. Eugene |

In Episode #124 of Rizzology, host Nick welcomes guests Jamal and Dr. Eugene for an engaging discussion covering nutrition, fitness, and sports. The conversation begins with an interesting examination of kangaroo meat and game meats, exploring their nutritional benefits and preparation methods. The guests dive deep into important topics like childhood nutrition, the problems with modern food processing, and how parents can make better dietary choices for their families. Dr. Eugene shares valuable insights about medical practices and the importance of taking ownership of one's health rather than solely relying on doctors. The episode culminates in a passionate debate about basketball legends Michael Jordan and LeBron James, examining their careers through statistical analysis and historical context.

Key takeaways:

• Discussion of alternative protein sources and their benefits
• Important insights on childhood nutrition and food choices
• Analysis of modern medical practices and patient autonomy
• Debate on sports legends and their impact on basketball
• Examination of sleep, recovery, and supplement use for optimal health

Perfect for fitness enthusiasts, sports fans, and anyone interested in health optimization and nutrition.

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00:00 "Overcoming Decision Paralysis"
15:49 Parental Influence on Child Obesity
28:04 Balancing Speed and Endurance
35:26 Prioritizing Kids' Special Moments
48:27 Preventative Health and Cancer Awareness
56:58 "Chasing Youthful Knees"
01:06:29 Injury Happens Unexpectedly
01:18:40 Basketball: Early Fan Perspective
01:27:12 Old School Basketball's Limited Exposure
01:35:44 LeBron's Early Dominance at 15
01:48:32 "Unrealistic Muscle Gain Debate"
01:55:52 "Basketball Strategy: Jordan vs. LeBron"
02:04:21 US-China Communication Concerns

Transcript

0:00

I got the kangaroo meat. Yeah. And on the package. First off, I don't understand why they say, I don't understand why when there's like game meat, they add beef to it. I'm not sure why they do that. Like, there's 4% beef added to the kangaroo meat. It's like that for some, for the company. Force of nature that makes the venison. Yeah. And they make the. I don't even want to say, Honestly, I was going to say maybe it's for flavor, but that's not enough to cut the flavor. If you don't like gamey meat. Pause. No, but yeah, I, I, I don't know if that's, if that's even a cut to flavor. I don't know what the reason is. They add beef to game meat. Beef is often added to game meat like venison or elk and roux. Yeah. To increase its fat content, which helps improve the texture and flavor. And flavor juicier and preventing it from drying out during cooking. I'll tell you what they do. The kangaroo is light, lean. Oh, yeah, lean. I put up on my story this morning. 4 ounces, 100 calories, 1 gram of fat, 23 grams of protein. That's pretty good. Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. Now how's it taste? So everyone's been asking me that. They've been like, oh, did you cook it? Did you cook it? I finally got to cooking it and I cooked it this morning and I put a little seasoning on it because I wanted to taste what it actually tasted like. And it's very light and sweet at the end. It's very weird. It's, it's gamey, but not gamey. Do you remember when bear burger. Yes, they, yes. They were like really dope. Like now, now they're just commercial. But yeah, when they originally started, I don't know if you remember Bear burger, when they originally started, they used to do elk, wild boar. Yes, they used to do, I think they did alligator too. Yeah, Ostrich. They used to have ostrich burgers. Yeah, they used to do all of. That and then they just stopped doing that. But this is what it, it doesn't taste as heavy game wise as that meat. It tastes very light. Not going to lie. You start looking up the kangaroos, you start realizing they're just like giant rats. Didn't love that, but. Didn't love that. But I'll tell you what, it's pretty cool to like. They're muscular as hell. Muscular as hell. Dude. The video I Just showed you. They're, like, jacked. I was fucking hysterical. I was looking at kangaroo videos because. I was kicked the shit out of you, man. Bro, that's the problem. Because they got the claws, the hooves or whatever they call it. They got these. These two claws on there. They'll rip you to shreds with that thing. Because they balance on their tail and they balance it. Look, D. Look at this dude. That dude looks like he's ready for the Arnold Classic. Damn, that's a big boy. Look at my tooth. He's something on him, too. He's hitting it. He's hitting the front double. No, he. They're definitely feeding him something. That's. That's an. That's all. That's what they all look like. No, they don't. They do. The male kangaroos, that's what they look like. They roll up on you and they just got to flex on you. Let you let you know, bro, it's crazy. And then they're sitting on their back of their tail just like, hanging out like, boy, put your shit away. Don't show me that wild. He looks like you. Yeah, he does look like Jay. Looks like a lighter J. That's so funny. This would be me if I. If I had the potential. That shit is crazy. Yeah. No, it's nuts. But the store. The store is cool, though. It's Wild Fork over in Plainview. Yeah. And they have a lot of, like, farm. Not farm. They have a lot of wild caught salmons and fish and whatnot. And they label everything. They have elk, they have boar, they have ground beef. I mean, just think about how much food you go through, you know, in a weekly basis, especially when you're trying to eat your shit. The amount of food is. That's. That's a. I need. I need a job. Yeah. Just for food. Yeah. You need a side hustle. Just for the food. Oh, man. Yeah. I mean, you eat a lot. I eat like crazy. Like, a lot a lot. Do you prep? Now here's the question. Do you prep a lot of your own shit or do you get. Cause obviously I see you at Empire one day. I do a couple of different things. Right. I have a client of mine, her name is Alana. She has a food prep company. Once Oskie stopped making food, he was my food prep guy. And Omar would tell you I would order 10 pounds of chicken, 10 pounds of ground beef, 10 pounds of shrimp. And on occasion, I'd switch out the shrimp for fish. I like code. £10. £10. £10. I would order that on to be delivered on a Sunday. And it's all pre cooked. Pre cooked. And I separate it into my meals half and put the next half into the freezer. So was that late Monday, Tuesday, two weeks. I'm just saying. No, you got 30 pounds of food. I'm done by Friday. Damn, son. Fridays. So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, by the time, the middle of Wednesday, I've take the food from the freezer out and put it to thaw out. And then Wednesday afternoon into evening. Thursday, Friday is the rest of the food. It's all done. That 30 pounds of protein is finished in, in five days. And usually it's because Saturday I'll have the kids and I'll be going out, hanging out with the kids. Yeah. And I'll eat stupid shit, eating on the fly just because. More so because like for my birthday, right? I don't celebrate my birthday. My kids are like, daddy, we want to get you a cake. And I'm like, Batman on, like, you know, my mom is just like, dude, come on, stop ruining this shit, man. Just at least get a cake for the kids. Like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, fine. So I get a cake and then I get a whole Rodizio chicken and I put my candles in the chicken and I let the kids blow out the cake and I block the candles in the chicken and I eat the chicken. That's what I do. I don't eat sweets like that, you know, I just don't. That's just not me. Not even a slice. I don't have to. I don't care for sugar. It don't really. It don't really do that for me. You know what I'm saying? That's my fat Italian. But it's your birthday, bro. But you know why? And I've always brought this up, and I hate to put it like this, but I'm a performance guy. I like to feel Good. Right? Right. 100%. I agree. Whenever I eat cakes, cookies and stuff like that, after the first bite, you taste the decadence of it. You're like, oh, this is amazing. So sweet, so nice. It's something completely different than what I'm accustomed to eating. Of course you like it. And then I get a stomachache. Well, it's engineering. And I start feeling. Then I get. I start feeling queasy in my stomach because of such high sugar content and saturated fat that my. I'm just not. Yeah, it just doesn't make me feel good. And then my stomach gets bloated off One little piece of cake or a cookie? When I was working for. For Juan at the cookie dealer, the first day he ever came to me before he. He blew up, he was like, jamal, we used to train all the time. He's like, jamal, try this cookie. Tell me what you think. And I bit the cookie, and I'm like, listen, this is a great cookie. It tastes amazing. But I can't eat all this. Like, this is making me feel. What was the whole cookie? It was like 700, 800 calories. Over a thousand calories. Is it over a thousand? Yeah. Each cookie. Cookies are ridiculous. So I was just like, I can't stomach that. I had some tomfoolery at Chip City in town. Yeah, Chip City is another, like, cookie spot. A new joint, right? Yeah, pretty much. For the most part there in the retail space. There's one in Garden City. Yep. Yeah. And so I went in there. This is a while ago when they first opened up in town. And I went in there and I looked at the cookies and they just. And they said. They said serving size. They said 250 calories for a serving. I was like, oh, shit. So like, 500 for a cookie. But it's like a quarter serving. Four servings for a cookie. Cookie, exactly. I was like, 12,000 calories right there. I bought them already, and I had them in my hand and I read the sign then, and I went, what's. The use of buying a cookie like that? To bite it and put in your. Fridge and wait, you're not eating the whole thing. The next day you're going to bite it again. So you get four bites out of it for a thousand calories. For what? You ain't gonna eat it like that. You're gonna eat the whole thing right there. And it's just. Be a gavon. I'm the whole thing. And then I'm gonna think about it the entire time while it's in my fridge. I'm be like, oh, shit, I might. As well eat it. I got the rest. Well, that's what I did. I did that last week. Yeah, I was trying to eat clean. I got pizza. I bought three slices of pizza, and they were delicious, man. I just. I'm literally. I get home, I eat the margarita slice, I eat the buffalo slice, and the pepperoni with the hot honey is sitting there. And I just went, all right, let's put this in the freezer. I took a bite before I put it in the freezer. Freezer, dude. I'm sitting down on my couch. I'm Just sitting down and I just like, fuck it. Well, if I want to eat clean tomorrow, when am I going to eat that pizza again? I said, well, I gotta just knock it down right now. Tonight. Knock it down right now. Right now. Yeah. And then I. But exactly what you said. I ate it. And then you feel like trash. Not only did I feel like shit, you feel. I don't know if it's just us beating ourselves up because we know better, but I, I get guilty. And then the other side of me is like, if I'm fasting for like, you know, not even intentionally fasting, but if I'm fasting for a few hours and you really feel like having breakfast, one two o'clock comes and I'll eat something. Sometimes I'll, I'll justify eating something that's a little higher calorie because I haven't eaten all day yet. But then I'll eat something that I know is just a little like maybe a ham and Swiss on a croissant. Yeah, yeah, I'll eat that. Instead of maybe some eggs and a piece of sourdough. I'll eat that. But instantly felt all day, I felt great. Like, you know, everything felt good. Veiny in the arms, you know, like, oh, we're, we're feeling a little tight, little lean. Ish. Yeah, eat something like that. My body reacts instantly. Like you said, you start bloated. Yeah, yeah, it's tough. It's definitely a big problem. I feel like also an epidemic. People, people just love sugar and they love to just indulge on things that, that, that are not conducive to their health, you know, And I think definitely a lot of people definitely need to get educated better on, on how they need to, to eat and how they need to maintain a healthy, balanced lifestyle in general. I think diet is definitely one of them. The way that, that, that people exercise is definitely one of them. Where do people start, though? Here's one of the problems and before I cause I want you to continue on this point because it's important. But where do people start? That's the issue. People don't know where to start. And just like a lot of people, you know, I've talked about it in previous episodes of just when you wake up too much to the world around you, to the options that are presented to you on a daily basis for food and just in general, you almost get paralysis by knowledge and it becomes too much because like, yeah, it's great to keep it simple. Like, you know, listen, everybody watching the men in this Room Jade built different. He just always has. He really is. He's. He's. He's a freak of nature. He really is. Yeah. And in the most positive, complimentary way I can ever give you, my brother. For real. I appreciate that. That's what I'm saying. It's just an all around package. Sometimes. Most of the time, you get one dude that's just like one thing, and then they lack something else. He's just like a fucking freight train. He's just ready to go in all. In all areas, and it's just. It's. It. It's motivating to watch. But then, you know, like, he. He won't even touch the sweets. Whereas me, I won't touch the sweets. But then, listen, I have my cave days where I'm just like, all right, I'll touch the sweets. But he's a thousand percent correct. Because the second that you touch those sweets, it's like, oh, now you're in a pit. Now you got to. Now it. It's going to be at least a day before you start feeling like yourself again, because you got to get all this extra shit out of your system. What you just said, right? Like, you can. You can definitely touch the sweets. But I think there is. There's definitely. You know, and it's in moderation. You don't. You don't want to overdo it. Like. Like, you can have a cheat day. He doesn't. He doesn't like cheat days, right? Because my cheat day, I have cheat. Days, but they're not like rotisserie chicken with birthday cake. It's just more. It's just more chicken. Yeah, it's just more pro. It's just what I. What? I love Brazilian steakhouse. Oh, dude. Bro, you know when you want to. Go gather up fab. My clients got me gift certificates, bro. Oh, shit. Let's go eat. Let's do it whenever. Let's go eat. Let's do it one day next week. Every time I walk in that place, the owner's like, oh, shit. Start cooking the meat for tomorrow, bro. He ain't leaving here for the next four hours. Oh, my God. Yeah. That's one of my favorite. But me, my cheat is still something that I feel like I'm cheating, but it doesn't make me feel disgusting. Yeah. So I love burgers, and I love burgers with an egg on it. I love burgers with a little bit of bacon on it. Right. The whole nine yards. So when I go and do that for my cheat, I get it. And people will laugh at me, you know, but I'll get it on a gluten free bun and Canadian bacon instead of regular bacon. Not that I don't eat regular bacon, but here I am, I'm eating cheese. I don't normally eat cheese. Yeah, you said the dairy fucks you up. Dairy fucks me up. Right. So I'm putting cheese on there. I'm not going to continue just to pile on saturated fat. Even though it is my cheat, I'm still getting in saturated fat. I'm getting in much more than I normally would eat. I'm not just gonna pile it on just to be gluttonous. And the problem when it comes to sugar, it's just, it's the same thing with like dopamine responses, right? Exactly. Once your body knows there's a dopamine response for. Well, not knows, but it feels a dopamine response for a certain thing, it's sought out by your, by you on a regular basis, Captain. Like a heroin addict. Well, why you think one of the highest responses to dopamine is what? Cocaine? That's why once you do that and you feel that dopamine response, you, it's very difficult for you to pull away. You know what they, you know what they're, they're finding out now the highest dopamine response now, which is very similar to cocaine. I know you about to say it. You know. No, not porn. Sex. Well, I mean, loving. Wait, you guys. Not sex. No, no loving. Yo. No, not sex. The research is showing taking cold baths. Oh, cold baths. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Ice plunges. Yeah. As effective. Yes. As doing cocaine. Yeah, yeah. With the response is they, they've, they've shown that it's, it's, it's insane. Like it's like 50 times the amount of dopamine. Really? Yeah. And the sugar, sugar hits you and gives you a response. And that's why then aside from insulin shoots and all, but you see all that stuff. But you do, right? You, you are. One, you're educated in this, right? And two, you, you know how your body reacts to certain things. Certain people, their, their, their tolerance to, to certain foods are so high because they're so used to this, this, this, this level of sugar that they don't. Even know how to feel good though. Hard. Yeah. It's hard for them to, to take it out their diet. Right. Because they're just so tolerable to that. That's the hardest thing. Like, like you said, what's the high? What's the first Step. It's. It's taking accountability, taking ownership, and, okay, I need to make this change. I need to do something about this in order to revamp my lifestyle and. Understand that it's gonna suck because it's like, it's like caffeine. It's like anything. You're gonna have withdrawal symptoms from something that you've been using and abusing for a long time. Exactly. And this gets into, into some of the context that we want to talk about, but when does it start? Right. At a young age? Well, it has to start at a young age. But you don't, you don't want to sit there. It doesn't. You don't want to sit there and, and harp on calories and all this kind of stuff with your children like that. But you got to teach them, because children are sponges. You got to teach them healthy. You got to give them healthy choices and teach them about healthier foods. Right. I'm not telling you not to give your kids snacks and stuff like that, but if there are healthier snacks to choose from, by all means choose those instead. Right. So you could teach them from young. And most people aren't taught from young. Most people are more so as parents, and I hate to, like, just say this about a lot of parents, but. And I understand, like, life gets hectic and you're busy, and the easiest thing is to just be like, let me just pick them up McDonald's and jump on your iPad real quick. I just need a moment to myself. I get it. I totally get it. But that leads to habits that will fuck your children up for a lifetime. IPad kids. And it's going to take so much for you to try to reverse what you've taught at that young age that it could be detrimental. So the case is now have been through the roof with juvenile diabetes, right? Yeah. And the reason being is nine times out of 10, it's just what you're allowing your kids to eat. And the problem is, you know there's a statistic, right. If one of your parents is obese, your child has a 35% chance of being 30% chance of being obese. If both of your parents, your child has a 70% chance, not 100, but 70. And you want to know the 30 percentile that's left out that don't become obese. It's knowledge that causes them. It's the vision and being like, I don't want to, I don't want to. Look and feel like this predisposed genetically to that. And it's the knowledge. They gain knowledge as they get older. But most parents, if they're, if they're in that. In that realm of being obese, they're just pushing their own lifestyle onto their children. So that's all they know as well. You know, I come from a family that didn't go to the gym. My mom kickboxed a little bit. I love, you know, mom Deuces is, is number one for me. She's amazing. But, like, she doesn't get a lot of what I've done over the years. Yes, she really doesn't. I mean, even when I tell her I'm pushing it in jiu jitsu or I'm pushing it with like the heavy sandbags, her first response is always, is it necessary? You need to just like. Well, it's that old school mindset. Yeah. I mean, you know, my grandfather fucking lived off Diet Coke and not drinking any water. I'm surprised he made it till in his 90s. I mean, it's insane. Diet Coke back then was different though. Ah. I mean, yes. Yeah. I mean, the real Coke, when he was drinking it back in the day, but like the Diet Coke. All I know is my. We used to have to badger my grandfather to drink fucking water. Really. Water. And we're over here hammering a gallon a day, like, trying to get that in, and we don't. And we feel the effects of not gaining. Don't have that, the lack of hydration. Just your mind, your body. So it's like, y'all just raw dogging shit for like, how many years on Diet Coke every day? No gym, nothing. No physical fitness. It's a. I get what you're saying, but I feel like today in modern society, it's a completely different world where the type of food, the type of ingredients that are in foods are very detrimental to people's cognitive functions. Which is why, you know, kids are more prone to autism. Like adhd. Yeah. You know, syndromes and everything like that. It has a lot to do with the diet that's in the foods as their brains mature. Also, you know, like, like you mentioned lifestyle choices. Right. A lot of parents don't. Don't really, but it's now changing. Like, like the fitness industry has completely evolved in the past 20, 30 years. We can say where people are starting to see how it's affecting their lifestyle. They want to start. Start being more active. They want to. They know that it's important for them. So I think the, the shift has definitely geared more towards healthier lifestyles. It's just people need to take more ownership in that. They need to see why they need to. They, you know. You know, the problem with the medical system today is people are so dependent on doctors and they have less that they're taking less ownership on themselves. Like for example, like, like Jamal, right? He has, he has, has shoulder pain, right? He did you go what? And God fab everything and God fab isn't here. Oh my God. Right, but did, did I go to the doctor? Eventually I ended up going to the doctor. But what doctor do for you? MRIs, X rays. To get the MRI, you needed to first get an X ray, I'm sure. Yeah, they put me through all types of stuff. They didn't want to give me anything, but then they'll. You pull in the teeth. You know, it's funny because if you, you know, I have a primary care physician that never sees me. But, but if I do show up in your office, I'm showing up for a real reason, if I'm telling you. Listen, dude, I've gone the route of every alternative medication thing I could possibly do. I've done therapy, I've done this, I've done that. I try to work around my injuries, everything. I'm scaling back. I need to see what's going on in here. Right. Or wherever it is. So just, at least I need to just know what it is. I don't need you to tell me that you need to do surgery on me. Tell me what it is. I'll be the one to choose whether or not I'm going to do surgery or not, or take the route of working around it and trying to keep my mobility that like we worked on and, and, and try to gain strength within certain ranges that are important for me. There's some stem cells, there's a lot. Of which is great. What you just, just alluded to is you're going for advice, but you're not depending on them. No. Right. That's the worst thing that people could do is they, they. And it's, they, they depend is because they, they're, they're uneducated. They don't know any better. They're not going forms of medicine. And I think that that is one of the worst things you could do is because your lifestyle becomes completely, you know, it becomes complete. It becomes a complete sham. Like you, you don't, you don't live the way that you want to live. And it's, and it's because you're, you're being put on medications. You're, you're you're, you're saying, don't, don't do this, don't do that. That's not the way a human body wants to function. We are creatures of movement. I tell, like a lot of my clients were like, oh, you know, I got this kind of injury, that kind of injury. And I'm like, you know, listen, so when you, when you, when you get injured and you go to the physical and then go to the doctor and the doctor tells you, go to physical therapy. What does a physical therapist make you do? A general physical therapist are the ones that we're used to. It's gonna, if you have an injury to your arm, he's gonna make you work things with your arm. Yeah, well, they're around the injury, they're going to manipulate the muscle a little bit, they're going to work, get some blood flow going in there, work out. So now the doctor, thank God, the doctor is sending you to a therapist, but you're not even realizing that the therapist, here's your injury, let's work this area. So we're going to work everything around it to take the pressure off of where the injury is, right? To help heal, right. To get you back to having good mobility function the whole nine yards, right. You don't think about it that way. Therapy is just therapy. It's what you do when you go see a therapist. You don't realize that, damn, I got to go to the gym on my own and just work out because my muscles are my, on my, are my, my best shock absorbers. The more conditioned and the stronger my muscles are, right, the more protected and the stronger my joints will be, the less likely I am to have in tendonitis, ligament damage and things of that nature. So you take for instance, guys like Ed Reed and Ray Lewis, Troy Palomalu, guys who played almost into their 40s at one of the roughest sports that known to man. Way rougher back then when they were. Exactly. So now these guys played so long and you know what they all had in common with a few others, and forgive me for leaving out their names, but they were gym rats. They would finish a game and pull out a deck of cards if they were away before they flew home and do push ups and jump squats with every card they turned over, they were gym rats. Look at LeBron, he's a gym rat. That's, he loves to work out. Everybody that's in there conditioning their body and working out don't think that immediately. It's just, oh, they're on some Kind of drugs? No. The protocol they're following is exactly what your body needs to do. A guy, way back in the day, Juan Carlos, he wrote a book called Eat, Move, and Be Healthy. And it's the most simple fucking shit. And it's the most important thing. Simple and it's the truth. Eat, Move and Be Healthy. Yeah, that's it. And people have lost sight of the healthy eating part and the movement part. Now, we have a community now that's heavy into fitness, but they're heavy into fitness because of social media. 100%, right? And that's good because people are getting out there and moving. Right. But I do think they also have a misconstrued concept of what they're doing it for and. And the reasons they're doing it. I think it's all attention based, unfortunately. But, you know, for a lot of. People, it's attention based. The people that really are the ones that hit the pedal and really get going are the ones that either were super skinny and they wanted to put muscle on, or the opposite, which is. They were super heavy. They hated how they looked. They hated taking their shirt off every summer when it came around time, like myself, and they wanted to. I know, it's crazy. I hate taking my shirt off. I fucking. I still do. Even. Even when I'm. Even when I'm. Even when I'm in shape. Even when I'm in shape, I still don't. This is my photographer, my videographer, bro. He has to. He has to. Literally, for lack of better terms, no homo, coax me out of my shirt when we're doing a photo shoot. I'll quicker put on a tank top or a cutoff to do the whole video. He's like, jamal, what are you doing, dude? Take your fucking shirt off. You. You have to. And I'm like. At the end, I'm like, all right, I take it off. And he's like, now this is gonna be a video, bro. And I. But I don't, like. Yeah, I don't know what it is. Even when I'm in shape, man. I was shredded from my bodybuilding shows. Even when I was doing all the crazy hit workouts and the jiu jitsu, I still hate. I still wasn't taking my shirt off. I was just like. That has been ingrained in me since I was younger. That's a mental issue from being heavy that I just. Personally, I know is something that I have to work through. Oh, without question. Yeah. The people are looking at you. People are judging you. And I even did two bodybuilding shows. And I hated standing up there, even though I was shredded. Hated standing up there. Really? Wow. Yeah, I'm with you, too. So. So you went from being. I mean, to cut you off. No, no. You went from being somebody who's self conscious about the way you look. And he was heavy, too, and you were heavy. To doing weightlifting competitions. Yeah, bodybuilding competitions. Yeah, the bodybuilding. Bodybuilding. Him turned into. Bodybuilding is what kind of turned a. A corner for you to lose weight and get in shape. And that was a process. I mean, the. The abbreviated version of how it started was my dad showed me pumping iron, and I was heavy at the time, and I was like, oh, shit, this is pretty cool. Like, just clanging and banging weights and this and that. And then I joined BEVs, like 2011, I joined BEVs and I. I dropped from 270 down to 190 in the summer. And then I went. And then after that, I was working out for a while, started dating a girl, went back up to 240. We both went away to college. Within a matter of weeks, the relationship ended. And I was kind of devastated, didn't know where to go. And I said, all right, let me try competing. And I dropped from 240 to 150 in a year, and I competed. And she fell in love again. I did. I fell in love again. But I also. I also fell into the dark side of the sport, which is the steroids, the constant food being shoved down your throat when realistically, at 150 pounds, I didn't need 300 grams of protein a day. Yeah, you know I'm saying, like, shit like that. And you. You learn a lot and. But the path that I've taken has brought me to where I'm at now. And then, you know, over the years, being off season, considering it, maybe considering doing it again, this and that kind of just always in the back of my mind, because that was always the life that I had lived for a long time. And then learning alternative ways of training through Tom, through og, through all these different spots of just, like, hit workouts and this and that. And then I just. I started jiu jitsu, like, 20 months ago. So it's a little over a year and a half at this point, and I just fucking fell in love with that. And I've just been loving that. I got my blue belt in August, and it's been. It's been a great journey at Sarah's. So shout out to Sarah's. I train over there in Huntington in Jericho on Jericho Turnpike. And it's been amazing, but I do feel like especially the last couple of months, I haven't, I haven't watched what I ate the same way as I normally would. So I'm up like 10 pounds. So I'm like 199 now instead of 189. 190, 190. I feel stronger, but I also feel slower. Okay. So my speed has diminished a little bit and I feel in the middle of like, you know, I'm on round four, I'm on my fourth five minute round of the night and I'm huffing a little bit more than I know than I was a year ago, but I'm also able to like really maneuver, maneuver more. Not only more strategically because I'm just. The knowledge is coming as I'm getting better at the sport, but because I'm able to put a little oomph behind my movements now. So it's a push and pull. It's always a balancing act of where can I sit in the middle of this? Heavier to speed and performance based. Where can I sit in the middle of it where I'm happy with how I look, I'm happy with how I'm performing and I'm also not killing myself in the kitchen during training. That was the other side of it, which we could talk to as well. The overtraining side of it. Know I want to go back to. The, that's, that's, that's big too. Well, well I, I experienced that. I was doing OG every single day. I was doing it five to six days a week, sometimes even not taking a rest day at all on top of Jiu Jitsu every single night. And I, I mean when you're training twice a day like that and then you have to work to make a living and you're not just a professional athlete that gets paid to just do what they do. I don't know, like it was tough to get my meals in because I have to work. So it's like fasted in the morning, went to the gym in the

morning at 5am, didn't get home till about 7: 29:27

38. Then you're taking care of the dog. Then it's like, okay, I guess I should eat something. You eat something. Then you start getting your day going and then like maybe you eat one more time

in the afternoon. Then it's like, oh, it's about, it's 5:30, 6: 29:36

00 time for Jiu

Jitsu. Then you go to Jiu Jitsu, you finish at 8: 29:39

00 at night, and you're just like, I gotta slam more food. So most of those days I was maybe getting 800 to 1200 calories. Sometimes because you don't want, like, you'll. Definitely overtrain, but, like, doing that every single fucking day, if your food doesn't combat what your, your, your workload, you can overtrain very easy. So I'm dealing with some of the issues from that now. So, like, my, my, my right arm doesn't extend all the way. I went to Scott the other day, my right arm doesn't extend all the way. I'm having supination issues. The tendonitis is just, it has locked my arm up so bad. And like, when I roll, like most athletes, there's a issue, and it's not. Your arm fell off. You're gonna work through it. Yeah. So when you're in the middle of a roll, you don't really feel it. Yeah. Unless that arm gets taken for an arm bar and. Yeah. And extended out all the way and you're just like, oh, okay, let go. Immediately tap. Yeah, immediately. So, yeah, so it's been, it's been quite the journey. And I've, it's so funny because, like, as you go through, you understand that you need to take the rest because it's so important to be able to back off the gas pedal so you can perform better the next training session. But my mind is, I'm on a fucking roll. I gotta keep going. And the problem is you start breaking down. And I know this from years of training, but it's like my monkey brain, my stupid primal brain just goes, well, fuck it, we killing it right now. Let's go. Like, you've been tapping dudes out yesterday. Like, you feel good, and then you go that night and you just get whomped the entire night because you're just. I, I like that, that kind of brain. I know you do. You see, only, only a certain amount of people are able to, to tolerate that, that kind of. I don't have your genetics, Jay. I, I, I've got the chubby Italian genetics, you know. You know, one thing about Jamal, it's not really, I mean, it could be partly genetics, but a lot of it is, he had to learn one. I think it was also the, the, the environment that you grew up in. Right. Definitely, that, that, that kind of brought you up, that, that rugged lifestyle. And also you had to reprogram the way that, that, that your mind and body are, are sinking. Like, your mind will tell you, your body will say no. But you're like, nope, I got to keep going. Yes. Right. And that, that takes a lot of willpower. A lot of people don't have that. That willpower to do that. But. But it's possible. You want to talk about that? That's. Why don't we, why don't we go back to, back to the first point? Because I think that's an important point that we didn't really. Where do you start? I think that's the most important. Where do you start? Yeah. So for me, the. Where I started, and I want you guys to kind of talk about it as well. The. The best jumping off point for me was I had a chiropractor that taught me how to count macros. And this is before macro dieting was even a thing. But it opened up my eyes to understand how a calorie is a calorie. Okay. And why these nutritional labels are what they are. Like, how did we get to this equaling 300 calories for this protein bar. Yeah. And then you start realizing, okay, nine grams of fat per. Nine grams. Nine calories for every gram of fat. Four calories for every gram of protein or carbs. You go, oh, okay, that starts to make sense. But once again, we're in. We're in one of the largest information highway type generations ever. The second that we have an idea or we have a question, we can ask our phones. And now with AI, we can ask it and it'll scour the Internet for the answer. And whether that answer is correct or not, you still get presented with an answer. Yeah. So the problem is there are a lot of people that depend on. On the government and the general powers that be, FDA and all these places, they depend on them. Like, well, they have our best interest in mind. And when you're younger, you don't realize how detrimental a lot of these foods. Like you even said, cognitive. Not only just feeling wise and performance wise, but like how it degrades your interior versus like, like somebody could look great on the outside, but their insides are rotting because all they eat are seed oils, red dye number three, which they randomly decided to ban now after over 20 to 30 years of using it. Now it's bad. Now it causes cancer. Whereas if you know the reason they banned it now, because the new administration's. Coming in and they're going to ban. That's one. But there's other shit they want to take your mind off of. Of course, all the other fucked up ingredients. Let's just, you know what, let's attack red let's pull that out real quick. People will feel good for a second. Meanwhile, a, b, c, dnf is still in the fucking ingredients. So red 3 is bad, but red 50 isn't exactly yellow 3. All of these different things, you know, rfk put a video out talking about atrazine, like all of these different chemicals. And like you said, when you eat that first slice of cake and you go, oh. Like, you taste the decadence, you go, oh, shit. It's not just because it tastes good. It's because these ingredients are all combined in a very specific way to get you hooked and want to eat more. That's the whole point that these chemicals are made up. Dude, I eat one Sour Patch Kid, I'm going for the whole bag. That's my thing. And that's the thing. Once you introduce that to children. Yes, children live off of impulse. So the moment they have that feeling for what you've given them, you've given them sugar. The way they feel with the sugar, they want to turn to the sugar all the time. They'll turn to the point where they're gonna be like, you know what I'd rather eat? Listen. A bag of candy. And I'm not perfect, but at the same time, there's days when, you know, when I have my kids and I'm all over my kids, I'm just like, yo, you know what we're gonna do today? We're gonna go out to eat, but we're gonna eat dessert first. It's more for them that I'm doing it because I don't get a chance to do anything with them during the week. So I gotta make my time with them just like extra. I'm always doing extra shit, you know what I'm saying? And that's one of the things I would do. But even when I do it, I'm like, I don't really like this, but I do combat it. The moment. Especially my little man. He's such a wonderful, wonderful, happy, high energy kid. The moment you feed him the wrong shit, he's a lunatic. Yeah. And it's so sad because he can't even control it. So I'll give it to him. Cause I know he loves it and he just wants to have like a little snack. I'll give it to him. But what I do, I'm like, yo, I'm giving you this, but we're going to run the hills. I'm running you till you puke. Pretty much. We're getting this. I'm giving you this, but we're getting it out of you as fast as we're putting it in, as fast as. It hits that bloodstream, you know. Or I'll literally take him out and have him run the block. I'm like, let's see, let's go. I remember taking to him, taking him to the track and I'm like, listen, four times around is a mile, let's see if you can do it. I want eight. And he's just like going, going, going. And little man, he just, and he'll just go. But he's pumped full of sugar, right? And after we're done, he's chill and I'm like, perfect. That's how I gotta combat this, right? But a lot of times parents will give their kids the sugar and just let it do what it is. And instead of trying to have them burn it off or utilize it, they end up getting upset because your kids are bouncing off the wall. That's your fault, somebody else's fault, right? But it's taught. And kids now, they lean towards the sugar, they lean towards the snack. It's what you do. So if you, if you, if you can kind of fight that and give more whole foods, more stuff like that, the better. So if I fast and come off a fast seven days of water and I slowly come off and I'm going to eat vegetables and egg whites to start my first meal, right? The broccoli and plain egg whites taste like a fucking meat from a five star restaurant. But obviously it's because I'm depleted and I haven't eaten for a while. But also my taste buds, it's embracing everything about this food. I'm tasting everything. By the time I get my first meal with red meat in it, red meat tastes like candy, right? So because you're resetting your palette, you're resetting your bio. One of the things I love about doing a fast like that when it comes to kids, you got to program them that way. If you teach them to eat the eat vegetables and, and you plug them with vegetables, they end up liking it. And it's when you start giving them the other foods, they want to stray away from the vegetables and have that instead. So you got to. Now how easy is it to just give them the other foods? That's the problem. It's the problem when you. Exactly. When you start looking at the convenience factor of things, it's far easier to get Burger King than whip up a meal of chicken, broccoli and rice at home. It is, it takes three seconds to go to that Drive through. And unfortunately the majority, and I want to let you jump in here, the majority of families are going to opt for the latter. They're going to get them, they're going to get the Burger King, they're going to get the fast food meal. They're gonna say, fuck it, it's cheaper. It's easier than just, than spending $15 on a package of chicken breasts right now that I still have to cook, that I still have to clean, that I still, and I don't have the time, I don't have the energy. And then unfortunately, you're just giving your kids all these things where One burger has 50 ingredients in it. Why it should be bread, so flour, however they make the bread for that, flour, starch, whatever they do burger, it should be hamburger meat, so ground beef, cheese, if they're putting a slice of cheese on there, onions, and that's it. Why does this require 50 ingredients? Same thing with chick Fil A, Even a chicken nugget. Yeah, yeah. So what are you, what are your kids ingesting that now? They're having these problems mentally in school. They can't sit still. It's fucking with their development and, and, and, and unfortunately you bring them to the doctor and, and they throw their hands up because they've just been shown they've been taught how to deal with the symptoms that are in front of them versus work actively to not have them happen in the first place. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I agree. I do think that that sugar is not necessarily a bad thing. I think the, the, the, the quantity of sugar given is, is, is the problem. Also the, the type of, the type of food that we give to the kids and the lifestyle choices that we as parents make influences the kids. I think we could definitely do better with that. But for example, sugar is a carbohydrate. We need carbohydrates. That is important. A lot of people want to stay away from carbs or they feel like carbs are, are the worst thing in the world. Your brain feeds off carbs. You need carbs now. The brain function guaranteed, right? The type of carbs that you ingest is the problem. Right? There's, there's, there's refined carbs, there's simple carbs, there's complex carbs. Like you mentioned that the type of bun that you're using could, could make a big difference. So it definitely all goes back to the lifestyle choices and taking ownership in that. How are you cooking at home? What type of, you know, they, they, they've even done studies on on the pants. Like you need to change your pants. The, the non stick pans have pfas in them, which are forever chemicals. Yeah, that's the problem. You should be using a cast iron pan or you should be using. If you, as long as you don't have iron issues like, too, like your iron, you're holding too much iron in your body if you're iron deficient. Cast irons are actually one of the best ways to get iron into your body. And the food tastes better. Food does taste better. It does, it tastes better big time. Or you just do stainless steel. That's what I use. I use stainless steel pans. I got tired of doing the back and forth with nonstick and all this, with the Teflon and all this stuff. And I just said, you know what, it's just easier just get some stainless steel pans. Yeah, it sticks here and there every now and then, but it's better than having to deal with that shit. Yeah, agreed. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, you know, and you know, go even, even the cooking oils that we use. Yep. I got to kind of make better decisions with that. And you know, like, like you mentioned, right. You, you said that, that your chiropractor taught you these simple things. Right? But you know, for a lot of people, they, they learn this stuff, but to them, they, they just revert back to, to behavioral patterns that they're so accustomed to. The human. Yeah, exactly. The human body loves to take the path of least resistance. They don't. They choose not to learn. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The reason why Jamal's way he is is because he, he defined that. Right. He, he didn't take the path of least resistance. Right. The mindset is the biggest issue. People need to, to take accountability. They need to start taking more ownership in this one is getting educated. And like you said, right. Technology today is so advanced, is so abundant. You can, you can use it on your phone and educate yourself. Like, you don't really like, like, like in today, in modern medicine, you don't have to go to a doctor for, for, for, for a simple back pain. Like you can learn how to take care of yourself today. But people choose not to do that. They go to, you know, their, their, their primary care. Who, who tells them go to an orthopedic. And then they, they could just go looking for problems. It's the worst thing you can do. It will set you back. I think we're in the changing of the guard though now. I think the older generations, like my grandparents, they believed everything the doctors said. I think this our generation and younger. Surprised. I think our generation and younger is on the ver. Is on. Oh. Is on the mentality of second opinion or what can I research on my. Second, third, fourth, and fifth? Yeah. What could I research on my own that's gonna get me? Maybe there's like a holistic type of approach. But. But, you know, I do this for a living. There are a lot. Lot of people who still depend on doctors. At what age. At what age gap, though? At what age grouping are you seeing? But. But you all. All, you know, are you seeing it. Mostly in older or younger? Both, but. But I see it mostly in the older. But the younger I still see it is because the old. Because their parents haven't transitioned yet, but the. But the newer generation are start. Are still slowly starting to. To see See the difference. Yes, you. You are correct. But it's. It's the. The parents need to need to. To take and understand that. That there are better routes to take. You know. You know, like. Like. Like, why do you. Why do we need to depend on. On. On a. On a broken system? It just doesn't make any sense to me anymore. You know, like, we as humans need to. Need to do better. Well, I think. I think it is the truth. I feel like, you know, camera. No, no, you get looking at. I'm just. No, no, I feel like you're. You're right. 100. But I also feel like people have to want to do that. They. They have to want to change and they have to understand that they need to change. Right. You got so many people saying, go to the doctor. Yeah. And then you help me have a few people saying, try this instead. Right. So they're probably gonna just continue to move with the masses until they educate themselves and when they find out. And it's unfortunate cause like, with my parents, I'll tell my parents to do something and they'll be like, man, whatever. They'll go to the doctor and the doctor will tell them the same thing I said, and they'll be like, you know what? The doctor told me he should. I said, do this. And I said, motherfucker, I just told you to do this. No, you didn't. You never said that. Right, so it's also who it's coming from. Right, so. Oh, it's called the white coat syndrome thing. Yeah, of course they they would. Just because you're a doctor and you have a bunch of letters after your name, they would prefer to listen to that person. Even though you said the same thing to Them. And you're not educated, apparently, because you didn't go to medical school. On one, on one of the podcasts we did, I had said how the reason I just lost my shit with doctors years and years ago. I mean, I was running myself ragged. I was training people from 4am till 10 o'clock at night and then leaving and going and bouncing at a. At private events and then going right back to work, not even taking a nap. I would go some days, seven days straight. I was just making bank. And I was like, yeah, this is, this was up. It's all about the grind. I was just so caught up that weeks and weeks of it, I ended up being like, damn, man, I'm beat, dude. I'm really, really beat up right now. So I go to the doctor and I'm like, listen, I'm feeling really run down and I just needed just a checkup or whatever. The nurse took all my vitals, everything. Machine. Doctor comes in, has his back turned to me the whole time. He walks in with his head down, turns his back to me and to the counter and picks up my, my folder. Now I'm sitting on the, on the, the medical table. And he's looking. He's like, he's like, so you're feeling exhausted lately? I said, no eye contact, nothing. He's like, you're extremely tired lately. You said. And I said, yeah. He says, well, I mean, I hate to say it, but you're overweight, you're fat. I think you told me the story. And he's just like. And he's like. And I said, overweight? He was like, yeah, at your height, you should be this weight. So technically, with your bmi, you're morbidly obese. And I said, what? And he was like, he turns around, he's like, take your jacket off, lay down. So I literally stare at him like, I take my jacket off, I lay down, he raised up my shirt. He's like, oh, you work out? I was like, yeah, man, I work out. He says, well, do you feel sick? And I said, man, I feel great. I feel great right now. I'm done here. I was. I'm done with this bullshit, you know? So when I tell my parents if they need to go get a doctor, I said, go and try a few doctors, right? Because you feel comfortable with a doctor. The doctor that sits down and talks to you and looks in your face and thinks about other methods than just to pump you with fucking medication and tells you how to change certain parts of your lifestyle to make the Ailments you have go away prior to saying, at this point, it's so far on to save your life, we need to give you medication. Yeah, yeah, that's the guy you go with being reactive. That's the problem. Yes. It's dealing with what you're presented with at the end stage. And that's why there's so many end stage cancers and all this different stuff that people just are presented with. They're shocked that they have it. Yeah, like, I've been feeling like for a little while, but I didn't think it was this. And they're just like, okay, well now your options are chemo or xyz. And you're just like, well, what could I have done to have prevented this? Like, okay, take family history, Take all of these different things that could have been genetically, you know, predetermined for you to get these things. What could I have done to like, maybe stay healthier or was. Well, it was. It couldn't. It couldn't have been the lack of exercise, all this, all these years. It couldn't have been the lack of real nutrients and vitamins and taking care of yourself. And listen, truth be told, meditation, breathing techniques, ice baths, none of that would have helped your sedentary lifestyle. Accumulating with tons of chemicals that you were eating all over the time, just never doing anything positive besides going to work on a Monday, coming home every day until Friday, until you waited for the weekend, prayed for the weekend to come, induced yourself with alcohol, any type of recreational drugs. I'm obviously speaking in a very, you. Know, a broad spectrum, but it's true. These are the things that they should be teaching you as opposed to. And listen, this is one of the reasons I just put us on TikTok live up there. So I don't know how many people are watching. I don't know. But like, this is one of the, this is one of the issues that we have, like with TikTok, like the ban and all these different things. This is a platform where people can get a lot of information and across a lot of different topics. It could be anything. And unfortunately, when you start to like, really look out there, you get a lot of opinions, which can also cause paralysis because you have. So should I eat carnivore, Should I eat animal based? Should I do this, should I do that? When realistically the message should be try and see what works for you. Yes, because it takes time. And trying healthier methods in anything that you do isn't necessarily gonna just hurt you in the long Run. It may just be like a couple of weeks where you just don't feel great. And you go, okay, let's try something else. But all of these wellness. I'll call them methods of optimization. They're really there. So it's not cookie cutter. Exactly. Jamal's got a very different biochem than I do. You have very different biochem than I do. 100%. Yep. What works for you guys may not. Work, may not work for you. Exactly. That's the unfortunate thing people just get. But it's science. That's why it's science. The body, it's biology. They get upset because they try something, it doesn't work for them for a week. Well, because they. And they just throw their hands up and they go, fuck it. I'll go eat cookies again. Everybody's accustomed to instant gratification. Yeah. So I'm gonna go and start working out this week. And after seven days, I have not reversed what I've done for the past 20 years. This is bullshit. It's not gonna work for me. I'm back to my last 20 years. Yeah. That's what everybody wants. Yeah. I only lost three pounds this week. This is bullshit. They told me this is good for you, man. Told me if I got rid of alcohol, I would feel. I would feel great immediately. And I don't. It's been three days, I'm sober, and now my friends are going out this weekend. It's time to go, you know, have a couple of beers. You revert right back to the ways instead of giving your body some time to detox and get accustomed to, like, the new routine. Yeah. And as you were saying with the doctors, the tough part about the doctors. I have a lot of respect for doctors. I really do. Listen. They're very educated because. Listen. But they're all about their money now. When we got to go under the knife, you know, I'm not calling my Cairo. I'm calling doctor, of course. Like, what do you think we should do going. Going forward for whatever problem we're presented with? However, the unfortunate side is being reactive instead of proactive in people's treatments. And instead of them just coming in the end stage, there's a lot of box checking that goes on now. There's a lot of, like, oh, well, this symptom. This symptom equals this, as opposed to. I mean, you may have this, but why don't we explore a different option? Why don't we do a full panel of labs? Let's dig deep into the labs of what you have blood work wise and see if maybe this is an option versus just. Yeah, you have this. Let's just start treating with a pillow. And the pill makes you feel ten times worse than the actual issues that you were having to begin with. Yeah. So the reason behind all that is because people are so dependent on a, on a broken system, they, they will go to a doctor, they believe it and they, yeah, they believe that's what it is. They have to, they. Well, yeah, they, they believe it and they go to a doctor and the doctor will, the doctor runs them through a textbook system. Yep. The textbook system doesn't work. Yeah. Because like you just mentioned earlier, our biologies are all different. We need to treat the individual the way that they are, the way that they body, their body functions around their environment. But doctors don't have time for that. Right. And that's because the insurance model or whatever model that they're in is so they don't, they don't give them the time. What's the for profit model? And the problem is also the problem. And I'm really trying, not trying to cut you off on that, but the problem also is you have an 11 o'clock appointment. You don't see the doctor till noon because he had to book eight appointments within that hour to try to make his nut. Like literally that's what his co pays, he's living off co pays. Cause insurance companies aren't really paying him 100% of what he's supposed to get for seeing a patient. So if he knows after seeing this patient, I should have gotten, I hate to say it, but let's say$100 after this patient. And insurance is like, no, we don't think you deserve 100. We'll give you 20. So you know what? My

9: 53:44

00 slot, I'm booking four people. So when they come in with their$20 payment, copay, I'm getting that 8, that, that, that $80 off copay cash. Right. And then I'm

also getting what the insurance company is giving me at 9: 53:55

00. I got four people

at 9: 53:59

15, four people at. And all I'm doing is pushing my day back. That's all I'm doing. And now you got guys, people sitting in your office for hours upon hours because you also have to make a living. Understood. Understandable. But you know the funny thing is when you help to fix somebody, not only will they be a client or a patient of yours forever, they're gonna refer so much more. But when you

jam pack Your schedules and people like, yo, I came in for 9: 54:24

00, I

wasn't seen till 10: 54:28

15, they're gonna go find another doctor. So technically what you're doing is hurting your business more. Right. Like I said with my parents, I'd rather you sit down and sit with a doctor that's gonna pay attention to you and give you the time to gives a shit. You know, a lot of people, they don't find value in that. And the reason why is because they put. And this is, this is something that, that I deal with a lot. I, I work, I don't work with insurances. I work out of network with all insurance just because of this, because the system is broken. And a lot of people will put money and, and put their health in front of the, in front of the, the value of, of, of of their money. And that, that is a big problem. People don't, that your health is priceless. They don't realize that until they're sick. That's the problem. Yes. And at that point now you're willing to pay anything. Yeah, you'll pay anything. That's what, that's. And you get to the point where you're too late. That's. The millionaires and billionaires, they understand that at the late stage that health is everything and that the money that they made doesn't necessarily mean anything if their health shit. Yeah, I mean there are people who really went through every route that they could take to the point where like, okay, I need to start, you know, investing in my health. But, but some people, they, they just, they will refuse. Like I had, I had a patient the other day. This is like, I couldn't believe this. She was 40 year old female. The crazy thing is she was a physician assistant. She had lower back pain and she had back pain for a very long time, over a year. And I told her, I can definitely help you. I've helped thousands of people like this, which is true. I don't, I don't people. And she's like, I'm depending on my insurance. I'm like, so let me get this straight. You and this is the way I talk to people. I said, you've depending on your insurance for a whole year. You've gotten nowhere and you want to continue to depend on your insurance. And it's like, yeah. And then she tells me, I feel like I'm going to be in pain for the rest of my life. When she told me that, I was like, all right, this is not going to work. Some people just mentally are just. She's told herself that, you know the, you know the saying, if you say you can or you say you can't, you're right. So you're going to tell yourself, I'm just going to. I'll be dealing with this for the rest of my life. You're not looking for a way out. You're not looking to fix this. Yeah, it's over. You've already given yourself your reason to. Complain on the white flag, and it's just like, it is what it is. At this point, I guess I'm just going to be like this. Exactly. What's the saying? You don't know how good you. You, you can feel until you feel good. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of people that have just been sick their entire lives and they just don't ever know what optimized feeling feels like. Yeah. I had to spoke to a client the other day, and he's been a client of mine for shit going on 20 years. And he's like, jamal, I got to ask you a question, man. He's like, do you think I'm fucking crazy? Because I keep trying to find ways to make my knee feel like how it was when I was young. I said, no, not at all. He's like, you don't think I'm crazy? I said, motherfucker, I've been doing that shit for how many years, bro? I just want to be able to do what I want to do. You want your knee to feel better so you can continue to play sports and do all these active things. Right. So why stop and give in? Because doctors are telling you, oh, well, if your knee's like this, you have some, some, some structural issues going on. If you're not thinking about surgery, stop doing paddle. Stop doing this, stop doing that. That's not. No, that's not what it is. Exactly like you, doc. That is not what I'm doing. Exactly. But that's what doctors tell you. That hurts. Don't use it. That hurts. Don't use it. When a doctor says, don't do. Don't do this, you need to go find another doctor. I had. So that was, that was, that was one of my, one of my issues that I had. I had some crazy hamstring issue going on. It was like, it didn't always hurt, but every time I did a, like a lying down hamstring curl, it would pop, it would crack, or just. You just feel it. It felt off. Didn't hurt, but it just felt off. Yeah. So I went to the, you know, I went to a couple spots and I went to this one. Sports, you know, sports doctor and this and that. And he orders marketing. Good marketing. Oh, man, dude, fucking great marketing. He ordered X rays. And I said, doc, I don't need an X ray. Like, I'm just letting you know, like, I know it's nothing with my knee or any structural. Like that joint. Yeah, it's soft tissue at that. Soft tissue. It's ligaments, if anything. I just need to know if there's something bound up in there. Whatever. X ray to build the insurance. Yeah, exactly. So he can make money. Extra way for him to make a. Little loot and then come back next week when the X ray comes in and we notice it's nothing. And I'll send you for mri then we're all busy. I don't have time to just keep banging out appointment after appointment, and especially if it's going to be running behind an hour every single time. So we don't have time for this. So he comes in the room, heavyset dude. And I'm just looking at him just like, all right, I'll give this a shot. Call it what it is. He ain't heavy set. He fat. He fat. So, so he comes in the room and he starts asking me questions. And I said, yeah, I said, you know, whenever I do, you know, whenever I hit 120lbs on a hamstring curl, I start feeling like clicking and this and that. I'm just trying to figure out if it's my knee, if it's this and that. He goes, well, X ray looks great. You got like 15 year old knees. And I said, I guess that's good. Great. Fresh out the crate. I said, what about the rest? And he goes, so you're saying that it only happens when you do 120 pound hamstring curls? Yeah. He goes, so maybe just don't do 120 pound hamstring curls. I'm like, and what's the use? I'm even in here doing the hamstring curls. If it was up to you. Can we figure out, can we figure. Out what's wrong with my leg? As opposed to just saying, fuck it, it doesn't work like it. Like it did a couple months ago. Don't use it anymore. What? That's not how it works, man. Yeah, you got to figure some shit out proactive about the issue. So. And then listen, then. But then you go to guys like Scott, I'm assuming your practice as well. We go to you guys for, for Real reason for real sources of knowledge to help with the makeup of the body. He's a big movement mobility guy. Like, it's amazing seeing a lot of things that he does with, with his, his clients. Young kids, older clients, disabled clients. I'm sorry, is that the right word to use? I don't know if I'm. And I just wanna make sure. I wanna make sure I'm not hurting that population. Address TikTok live. Let them know it's sorry for the. Simple fact that I just love the fact that they're in there trying. Yeah, man, you understand? And he's working with them and it's like, you see the things he's doing and it's like, yo, that that's dope. That's amazing, right? And it's all movement based. I'm not talking about. He's not talking about giving you medication. He's not talking about, you know, you know, hanging you upside down and doing all types of crazy. No, he's like, listen, this is the problem. Your muscles aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. And the reason they're not doing it to help prevent the pain and the injury you have is because, one, your mobility is off or it's so deconditioned, there's so much atrophy, whatever it may be. That's what he's finding and he's attacking it. Yeah. Have you ever heard of a mainstream doctor talking about the surrounding areas compensating for an injured area? I've never heard them say that, but I hear my sports PT people talk about it all the time. It's common. It's very common. But everything that Jamal is highlighting, the reason why I do all this stuff, is that's just because that's what the modern research is showing. I don't like to. I mean, I don't say I don't like to, but my preference is not to do a lot of soft tissue on people and not to touch people and massage them because the research doesn't support that stuff. You know, nothing to go against. You know what Scott does? Like, he's very hands on, right? But I just. I am more of getting people to move. Right. I want people to be more conscious of the way that their body behaves around their environment. And that's just because the research shows that it takes thousands of pounds of Newton ton force to manipulate 1% of fascial tissue. Who could do that? It's physiologically impossible. And when someone massages you, it feels good. Or you Feel looser. Right. But there's no research to say that there's long term benefits to that. There's. There's. What's happening is you're fooling your nervous system. That immediate. Short term. And that's what those guns are. Exactly. Precision guns are guns. Yeah, yeah. They. It's. Yeah. It stimulates your. Your. Your soft tissue. Talking shit about my $600 Theragun. I have it. I have. No, we have it. It does initially make you feel loose and stuff, but it doesn't fix the problem. I know it doesn't fix. I'm saying, you know, there are. Hips are still tight, even though I use it on my hips. Yeah. I have some clients that will come to me and they, they, they want, you know, some, you know, something, right? They want like, like a soft tissue working. I will do it just because it makes them feel good. Just that alone has a therapeutic benefit to me. Right. They've. They've done so much research on this stuff. Like it's. It. They've done research on, on just touching people, on. On patting people. Having good bedside manner alone can help them with their pain. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So positivity, good energy. Yeah. Of course. There's a thing on pain science. I had, I had a patient, this was a long time ago, where she had constant knee pain. Constant knee pain. Every day, knee pain, knee pain. She goes away on vacation and then for a week, and then she comes back and I ask him, like, how's your knee? How's your knee on vacation? Goes, oh, my knee was fine. And then I'm like, oh, interesting. And how's it now? It was, oh, I'm in pain again. And why? It's because the, the environment that she's in when she's in New York is just stressful. Yeah. Stress alone is inducing the pain. It's not. It's not. It's also causing inflammation in the body. Exactly. On its own, when she was away. She had no pain. Would. Would a doctor ask her this, These questions? Probably not. No. He's all right. Celebrex. He's gonna. Yeah, he's gonna. Look, he's gonna dig for problems, right? Or they just. Everyone just blame it on anxiety and put you on an ssri. Everyone has meniscus tears, Labral tears if you're active. Yes. You. You have those. How heavy do you squat? You squat? You still squat? I still squat, yeah. You squat? I used to squat. Crazy heavy. Now I, you know me, I like to go right from the heavy leg press to the squat. I do it all. But, I mean, I'm. I can still get up there, you know, get up there. Right. 65. All right, so I weigh 155. I could squat 250. All right. I guarantee you I have a labral tear in my hip, but it doesn't bother me. Same thing for you. Same thing for you. Right. We. We all. We all have structural abnormalities. I can guarantee you if you go on an MRI and you go looking for problems, you will find problems. I find a lot. I know. Especially to the brain. That's all the stuff going on. That's all the Muay Thai. Yeah. But neck surgery. Why doesn't our bodies respond to pain signals? Is because our tolerance to stress is higher. Because we're loading our tissues. We've primed ourselves. Exactly, exactly. But when people don't do that and the older they get, that's when the pain starts. They sending responses to their brain saying, this is pain. Think about the first time you worked out. How sore were you the first time you worked out ever? That's. That's different. That's what I'm saying. In general. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your body adapts your body. And now a workout now that you may do. Yeah. Would you imagine doing that as your first workout? Hell, no. You have wrapped up. You'd be that weird. Yeah. Yeah. I remember my dumbass. I did. I did. I did arms for three hours straight for my first workout because my mom was, like, working out. She did a class. She was on the treadmill doing her thing. I was young, man, and I just fucking did like three hours of just bicep curls. And it's probably what I need, dude. The next day, I couldn't straighten my arms out. I was walking around high school like this. That's probably why you can't do them now. Yeah. You can't straighten that arm now. Yeah. But that. And that goes into. That goes into one of the bigger points for me, which is it's great to just keep hammering in the gym, and it's great that we can have that high output. Yeah. And do jujitsu and train heavy with the weights or whatever. Muay Thai, boxing, whatever your exercise of choice or sport of choice is. But we have to get better on that recovery side. We have to get better on the. On the. On the rehab side of things, because like you're saying, we all have problems, we all have issues, and we're all going to want. We're all going to run into injuries down the line. That's Just a given. It just happens. I try to explain that to my mom, too, and I'll let you cut in. I tried to explain it to my mom too, when she gets, like, upset about like, a jujitsu pop or something like that, and I just tell her, I go, you broke your foot tripping on a, on a, on a brick that was out of line in the town. Like, yeah, they fucked up because the bricks are all screwed up and anybody could have fallen and tripped. But that's the point that I try to make. It's like you could get injured just walking in on the block. Yeah, you can get injured doing anything. I'd rather get injured doing something I love. Yeah, I'd rather get. I'd rather at least have to deal with an injury when I. And, and performing and doing a sport that I love that's making me healthier and happier. Yeah. And your Recovery will be 10 times faster. Yeah, yeah. But, but, you know, people, people have to, to, to take their, their, their fitness seriously. You know, the older you get, people, people feel like, oh, I, I want to stay away from, from lifting weights. It's not, it's not important for me or, or, or I'm afraid to load my body. That's not what the research is showing. It's, it's showing you, you need to load your body. You lose 8 to 12% of your muscle mass every decade after 30. Damn. They don't talk about that stuff. Like, doctors don't talk about that because you say 40. I was about to go, I got some time. Still no shrinking, but like, I didn't. Give up mad time. Like 8 to 12% of your muscle tissues, like, start to. Start to atrophy after 30. And, and, you know, women in their 40s, 50s, why are they so susceptible to osteoporosis? Other, you know, other conditions, it's, it's, it's because of this. They, they don't load their, they don't load their bodies or, or if they do, it's not, they, they don't push it past their, their tissue tolerance. And they think they do, but they really don't. You got to actually, you got to actually readapt your tissue. Stress, stress your body out. The point where, where, where it's physically exhausted. That's what training is about. Now, when it comes to. Yeah, I know. You know, when it comes to recovery, the number one thing that, that they're saying about recovery is sleep. Sleep is the most important. Damn, I've been trying to get so much better with My sleep, man, I'm up and down all night. My problem is I. Seven to nine hours. Yeah. My problem is I'll sleep well, but because Jiu Jitsu is late at night, I'm drinking a lot of water because I'm dehydrated from get up to pee. So I wake up like three times sometimes to piss, man. Like, full, fully loaded. I'm just like, oh, God, again. I was having a good dream. I don't have a problem falling asleep. I can fall asleep anywhere. How long are you staying asleep? I don't stay asleep at all. 45 minutes later, hour later, I'm up and I'm like, all right, so what? Damn, it's only

2: 1:09:14

00. All right, let me try to lay back down. And at that point, I can't. Yeah, and then you're up. And if I do get up to go pee, I'm up. The moment I have to move, I'm up. Do you find. If you fall back asleep, you get. You're groggy the rest of the day. He's different, he's built different. But if you wake up at

that. If you wake up at that 2: 1:09:31

00 mark and you feel like you're wide awake, if you go lay down, I. Don'T ever fall back into another deep, good sleep. And the crazy thing is he can function the whole day now I can't. Yeah, but, but, but enough. But an average human can. I would like to know what I could possibly get done if I actually slept. But there's some days where, like on a weekend, if I'm. If I got the kids in my bed, and I'll be like, I don't really have any clients booked this morning early. Let me just stay in the bed and I'll stay in the bed for a little bit longer. I feel like shit. You feel like shit? Holy. Is it because you're dozing or because your body is resting? I get up and my body just feels sluggish and tired. How old is the mattress? More so, huh? How old is the mattress? No, no, I'm saying if I stay in bed longer. That's what I'm saying. How old's the mattress? No, it is an old mattress, actually. I can't get rid of that. I can't get rid of that mattress, man. I love that mattress. How old's the mattress? We've been through a lot. We've been through a lot. No, no, no. But no, I. I should get a. I should get a new. I should. Don't get a tempur pedic. I hate my tempur pedic now. Is that the one There was the ones that move like, you can put it in a different position. I heard purple's good. Yeah, I. I have a tempur pedic and I'm just not. I'm just not a fan of it, man. I just got my daughter a new mattress and like, I was like, mattress shopping. They have ten thousand dollar mattresses. I spent five bands on my mattress. I spent five bands on my mattress. I'll tell you the benefits. It would last. Yeah, I'll tell you. Maybe not this one. Other ones, probably. I'll tell you the benefit of the, of the tempur peete that I got. I got the base plate that does the head and the feet. So you added that on? No. Huh? You added that on? Oh, come on. Of course that was, man. Showed me the menu. The dude in the store, he lays me down. He's like, well, this is the, this is the firm mattress. And I said, oh, this is nice. He goes, I want you to come over here and try zero gravity mode. I said, don't do that, because then I'm going to have to buy it. Don't do that to me. And I went and did it and I was like, yeah, I got to get this. One problem with the tempur pedic for me is the tempur pedic has gotten. I got firm. I mean, it was like a rock when I first laid on it. When I got it home, and I loved it. I love a hard mattress. The best mattresses. I loved it. I was supported. I felt great. The problem is it started to dip and get softer as I've used it for the last. They say three years. You got to like flip it. No, you can't flip it. I did turn it. I turned it recently. I'll turn it again in another month or two just to try it. But I have slept better on the turned side. And it's good, but like, can your. Body be shaped like this when you sleep? It contours your body kind of like a. Like a lazy boy. Like a recliner. It contours your body. Because if that's the case, I'll buy that because I can't sleep on my back for nothing. The problem I have is I used to do a lot of stomach sleeping, which is horrible for you, I heard. Yeah, that's how I sleep. I love stomach sleeping. The first day I told Jamal, I was like, you have back. You have shoulder pain. How you Sleep on my. On my side. I can't. There's no other way I can sleep. Would you do the one. The one right. Knee up, dude. Both my knees go up, man. Oh, yo, I. I switch from back and forth, both hands under the bed. I'm like, yo, my head's all turned this way. He's doing a thread the needle. I got two pillows underneath. There's a huge curve in my low back. I sleep all types of. And I. Well, luckily I'm not in that position for a long period of time, but I just can't. I can't. Fuck. I can't sleep on back for the life of me. Back sleeping is tough for me. Side sleeping I do well with. But then there's a difference between sleeping on your left side versus your right side with how the stomach sits and stomach acid. I forget which side it is. I talked about it a couple weeks ago. I'm not sure. Yeah, it's. One has. One gives your stomach, your esophagus a more direct route to stomach acid problems where it could actually give you inflammation versus the other side where the stomach dips down and the acid can't get up. Where's my. My phone's up there. Let me look. I'm curious. Yeah, no, I. Yeah, I'm not sure, but. But yeah, I mean, sleep is very. Important if the bed can do this. Like a Lazy Boy. Because I could fall asleep on a Lazy boy on my back with my legs elevated, a little bend in my. Bend in my knees, body up like that. I can sleep like that. As long as my head is in line, I can sleep like that. So maybe I could do that. But, yeah, I can't sleep on my back for the life of me. I try so much. I really do, and she doesn't work for me, man. That's tragic. Sorry to hear that. But I remember one time this girl asked me, she's like, you sleep on your stomach? You can only sleep on your stomach. Are you worried about something? I was like, what do you mean? She's like, well, you know, animals sleep on their stomach to protect their vital organs. I was like, man, shut up. What are you talking about? That was the last. I hope that was the last conversation you had with her. I said, so what? I'm trying to protect my vital organs. I said, why you trying to shank me? That's funny. But let's see, let's see. Which way is the better way to sleep? Let's see, let's see. I believe it's. If I'M on. I believe it's on the left side. Left side? Yeah. If I'm not mistaken, I don't even know it would make sense to be on the left side. Sleep is not my forte. Sleeping on your left side can reduce stomach acid and heartburn. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because gravity keeps stomach acid from flowing back into your esophagus. So if you sleep on your left side, I'm all over the place. I'll tell you what I always have a problem with. I always have a problem with like taking magnesium or any type of vitamins. I always have a problem with, like, I'll drink a whole glass of water, but there'll still be that one pill stuck in the bottom of my throat. I'm just like, dude. And then you. Then you know that's gonna start burning as it dissolves. You're just like. You're trying to slam as much water as humanly possible. Yeah. Yeah. They say magnesium helps improve your quality of sleep. I. If I take 3 to 400 milligrams of magnesium, I sleep much better than if I didn't. Same. The problem is then if, you know, if you also want to supplement with gaba and all the other stuff. Gaba you could become dependent on. So you try not to use GABA too often. Gabby, you could become dependent on and you know, l. Theanine, apigenin. All these other ones are good to take as well. They do. They tell you to steer away from melatonin. For years they told you melatonin is the king of sleep supplements because your body produces it. And this elevates the amount that is actually produced. And if you take it for too often, you could suffer from depression from it. Isn't that the same with ashwagandha? Yes. Really? It makes you become like mute and like. Yeah. Like emotionally numb. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Interesting. I gotta get off of that. Yeah. When you take it, I mean, I stopped. I. I have to. I was. I was taking it like once a day, but I stopped. I take once a day. For how. How long? How long and how often? I think I took it for about three months. And then you were cycled off. I cycled off. That's good. You'd always cycle even regular vitamins and stuff. You should cycle off or try something new. Like when you bring up magnesium, you go through the different types of magnesium. It's good to cycle the types of magnesium. You'll. You'll continue to get the great, great results and response from magnesium. When you start switch, switching the type. Lysonate 3 and 8. What are the other ones? Not picolinate. There's no, there's. There is picolinate. I don't know if it's. I don't know if it's. It's magnesium, though. Hold on. That's chromium. It's chromium picolinate. I'm looking it up. Citrate, glycinate, magnesium chloride, lactate, malate sulfate, malate hydroxide. I don't know. I don't know if all those. You can eat. Yeah, we're not doctors. Don't listen to everything that we say. Malate. Malate is. It's going to be malate glycinate. Well, citrate three and eight is for the brain. Yeah. Three and eight. Yep. And that was a. That was a Huberman tip that I picked up when he started talking about it magazine. 3 and 8. 3 and 8. And he talked about apigenin, which is like chamomile root and L theanine. That was his, like, sleep bomb that he was talking about for a while. Sleep is very important. Yeah, I gotta get better with. That's, that's like, like LeBron James. He, you know, he's had a. He makes sure he sleeps a lot. Sleep was priority. He slept. I love that dude. Yeah. I mean, you know, we can argue about that, but. Yeah, I always argue. I always argue people about that. But I, I, I, I. That dude is. I think, I think if you. I am LeBron in, in the 90s, he wouldn't be the player he is today. He would think because. Do you think. Because he didn't have all the optimizations that they offer nowadays. I don't think so. I think he would still be great just, just because he's a freak of an athlete, but I don't think the aggression of the league back then would have been in his best interest. Well, when he first came out, when he first started playing ball, the league was still aggressive then, and he dominated. And you got to remember, he's bigger, faster than all the guys that did dominate. Not to mention. No, he is. He's bigger, faster, stronger, way more explosive. And not to mention, like, if you think about it, when you. Back in the day, like, people will argue with LeBron over Jordan back in the day. No. Right. Like, I love LeBron over Michael Jordan. I do. You put LeBron over Kobe. I do. I do. See, a lot of people, they think because my killer, the way I am instinctually, they think I choose those guys. And the truth of the matter Is I grew up watching all three of these guys. And I remember just to be a dick to my family, who are Nick fans and they played Jordan. I would root for the Bulls just to be an asshole. And I would sit there and just be like this. And in my mind I'd be like, why is this dude continuously shooting the motherfucking ball? Pass the fucking ball, dude. You didn't miss six shots in a row. What are you doing? Get your team involved. I used to get so upset, but not voice it. So when people, when I sit there and you telling me that it's the game of basketball, right? And now no matter what, in any, in any sport and in any, in any business, efficiency is key. LeBron is a more efficient scorer, passer player than Michael Jordan. So now, so LeBron, the only way LeBron became and you know, it all goes back to, you know, winning championships and being success. He would have never gotten where he is today if he didn't team up with Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosch and did that. That whole three. He, he, he betrayed Cleveland now. But why, why is that, why is that betraying Cleveland? Hold on a second. Michael Jordan didn't do that. He, he, he stayed, he stayed with the team that gave him what they wanted. And in the end, and in the late 90s, he had, he had to go up against the dog of the Pistons. They, they, they. He literally. No, no, that wasn't the late 90s. That in, it was the late 80s. Sorry. You got to remember, you got to remember one thing. You got to remember one thing. And I'm, and I'm. And I'm gonna, and I'm gonna just state facts real quick, right? The year before Jordan came into the league, the Chicago Bulls won 36 games and went to the playoffs. The year Michael Jordan. The year before. Yeah, the year before. So 83, when Jordan came in, in 84, you know how many games they won? 36. And they made it to the playoffs on just winning 36 games. Michael Jordan did nothing to change their team. LeBron James comes on to the Cleveland Cavaliers as a 17 year old who just won 14 games. That's it. An NBA team that won. He was, he was 17 when they signed. 18 when he started playing. Okay, so that's a 14 win season for the Cleveland Cavaliers. One addition was LeBron James. There was no change to the team. What happened to the playoffs? Yes, they did that first year. Now how. Look at the difference one player has made. That's what I'm telling you. But, but, but where you're. What you're. I think the problem is the era of basketball at that time was completely different. Exactly. The era was based on letting Michael do what he wanted, what he did. The complete opposite. What are you talking about? Michael, dude. Referees, coaches and players all say it. The league was told not to touch Michael. Call this walk and call this travel and everybody else just not Michael. To the point where referees would. Michael would be like, yo, you didn't see. But that dude, that dude got fouled. He was like, really? I didn't see that, Mike. Beep. Yo, go ahead. Come on now. The league was based around Mike. It was based around Mike. It was after they started to respect Michael. When he won 1, 2, 3 championships and they started to respect him. He, Michael Jordan literally changed the game. Well, of course he did, but let me explain something to you. How often was Michael Jordan in a conference finals, the underdog? You know why? He never. The team. He was never an underdog. Don't do that. You know he was never an underdog. Why? Because he had the best team in the league. He had the best team because he was the greatest player. Wait a minute. How come before Scottie Pippen got there, did he not win a goddamn thing if he's the greatest player in the game? He needed help. Exactly. He needed help. And when he got all the help, that's when he started winning. He didn't do shit himself. No, he was still. He was still. He didn't do nothing himself. Dude. Dominating the game. Dominating the game. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you, I'm gonna give you a quick little stat, okay? How many teams, how many times in LeBron's 21 seasons has he led the league in something negative? Never. Michael Jordan and all his scoring titles. You know how many times he led the league in most missed shots and most taken shots? So of course I would think you would score more if you're taking the most shots of the whole league and missing the whole. The most shots of the whole league. Michael and Kobe excelled at that very much so. Ten years out of Michael's career, he only played for 15. Ten of them, he led the league in most missed shots. I have nothing wrong with that, though. Why? Because he won? But he's able to do that because of his team. Michael couldn't do anything without help. LeBron, without help dragged the Cleveland Cavaliers, which was a shitty team, a last place team in the NBA, to the playoffs and then the following year to the finals as an 18 and 19 year old Michael could never do that. If you look at that lineup, those lineups, Michael Jordan couldn't do any of that. You want to know why? Because he's not nowhere near as versatile as LeBron. There's a game of basketball, right? The better basketball player. Basketball is LeBron. That's it. You need a center. LeBron can play center. You need a point guard, LeBron can run the point. You need a power forward, a forward, a shooting guard. LeBron can do it all. Michael cannot. But you know why is because the game, when he came in, became very versatile. Who? LeBron. When LeBron came in the NBA became very versatile, people started to space. That's adaptation. That's adaptation. Let me ask you this. If you. If you're playing the game of basketball, right, if you want to know who's better, right, Let me tell you this right now. People bring up. Okay, let me go ahead and finish. So I'm going to give you. Let me give you guys. Let me give you. Because basketball is just fucking not my thing. So I'm letting you guys debate this one out, but I will give. I really don't watch basketball ever. But if I'll give you guys two stat lines for two separate stat groupings, okay? MJ and LeBron. At 33, Michael was in his 11th season. He had 734 games, three MVPs, three finals, three NBA titles, three final MVPs and seven success. Seven first team, all NBA. Yeah. In. In contrast, LeBron was in his 15th season at. At 33. He had over a thousand games while Michael had 734. He had four MVPs versus Michael's three. Eight finals appearances versus Michaels. Three. Three NBA titles to Michael's three. Three MV MVP finals to Michaels, three and 11. First team, all NBA to Michael. Seven. And I'll give you one more stat and I'll let you guys finish this. Total games played between the two of them, I'm not sure. In the playoffs, 179. Michael 224 LeBron. Total minutes 7400 minutes on Michael. 9400 minutes for LeBron. 5900 points to Michael. 6400 points to LeBron. 1100 rebounds Michael 1900 rebounds LeBron. Over a thousand assists Michael 1500 assists LeBron. And you have six championships to Michael. Three championships to LeBron. I don't know if he's gotten more since that was. I don't. So I don't follow. So. So just like me for not following NBA. Just like, Just like, just like, you. Know, Football, though I'm a Patriots fan. And they're. It's, it's. It took Michael, right? What it took Michael to score, his amount of scoring for his whole career. Scoring was different back then, dude. The scoring was not different back then for Michael. The game was a lot different. My dude, you got to watch a little more old school basketball. And I'm telling you this because this, you know how many games this is what people don't understand about listening to that era, right? When you as a New Yorker saw Michael Jordan play back then, you saw it only when he played the Knicks, you didn't see when Michael Jordan shit the bed. Because what New York newspapers don't put Michael Jordan in the newspaper. They only put him in Chicago, right? There was no ESPN back then, and I'm talking about me. There was no ESPN news wasn't highlighting that. You only got a chance to see him play then. You didn't see the times he shit to bed. You don't see the times where there's many, many games and there's so much footage, right? And I save it because I argue with people all the time. Jordan will go 4 for 24 and still have 20 something points because he has 13 points from the line. He gets fouls called from so much. The games where if you let Jordan and LeBron take 20. Hold on. You let Jordan and LeBron take 10, 10 for 20 shots, 20 attempts at scoring, LeBron scores higher. LeBron is more efficient. Hold on, hold on. I agree with you. 25 shots, LeBron scores more. 30, LeBron scores more. LeBron don't shoot over 30 something shots ever in a game. Michael Jordan has shot in the 50s per game to only score 40 points. Do you know how inefficient that is? Do you realize that even then, when you look at these games, he's scoring 20 points from the line? Let me ask you a question. Come on, dude. If it wasn't for Michael, do you think LeBron would be the player he is today? Listen, Michael Jordan paved a serious way, and I'm not taking that from him. What I'm talking about is you cannot sit here and watch a guy that struggles to dunk the ball from the foul line, which is an amazing feat to see a dude take two steps off a steal and dunk in a game from the foul line with mad room flying into the crowd. Athleticism is one thing to go in a dunk contest. There's no need for him to. Why not? In the middle of a game, he's doing an under the leg dunk. There's no need for. Why? What's the use. What's the use of a dunk contest? It's to. To. To expose your true athleticism. To see what, how, how. How you. Did he need to expose that? I think so. Why have you not seen the athleticism for 21 years? He needs to show some. Some. Some, you know, some. Something else that he could do regardless. Like, Like, I think. I think, dude, if you look at. If you look at the eras of basketball and don't tell me this is. This is false. They were scoring 80, 90 max during 88 points. That was. That was the average, right? And this dude was still putting up. 30, 40 points a game on how many shots? Doesn't matter. It does matter. You know why it does matter. You know why it doesn't matter? Because for someone like you, right, who goes and grinds every day, there's days where you feel like shit. There's days when you feel good. And you know what's funny? LeBron. That's true. Michael Jordan will every day. The days I feel like shit, what do I do? I alter what I'm doing to make it effective. He doesn't. He doesn't. He had one thing and one thing only. You know why? Because he. He has confidence. Same thing with Kobe. Like, Kobe would miss five shots in a row. But you know what, what, what, what a mediocre player would do. Mediocre. Nah, don't give me the ball. I don't want it. Kobe's like, yo, give me the ball. I'm still going to shoot. Michael was the same way. LeBron didn't really have that, that, that, that, that mindset. He didn't. I don't. I don't. I don't see him having. Why do you think. Why do you think he doesn't have that mindset when. Basically, if you look at. If you look at games, if you look at footage, clutch. People always bring this up, but clutch doesn't mean two seconds on the clock. Clutch means the last two minutes of a game. Minute of a game. 30 seconds, 15 seconds, 10 seconds, 5 seconds. And game winners. There's no one in history more clutch than Mike, than LeBron James. None. Not a single. Getting this stat from. It's the truth. Look at it. I want to see this stat. Look. Look it up. I mean, I'm just saying. Look it up. Look it up, bro. I'm telling you right now, Michael Jordan has more. Has one more game. Winner. Buzzer beater. Only buzzer beater than LeBron James. But from two minutes out to closing, there's no one more lights out than LeBron James. If you are correct, I'm telling you right now. I'm not. I'm not gonna. I'm not. I'm not arguing with you. You might be correct. But all I'm saying, just like when you sit there and people say, oh, Kyrie Irving made the game winning shot against. When they. When they. When they came back from three one. Right. Okay, the game winning shot. There was still 15 seconds left on the clock for one. Who made the last stop? Defensively, LeBron did. But hold on, they were down 13. Who scored? No, I'm sorry. They were down 16. LeBron James scored 13 unanswered points before Kyrie hit that shot to put them up and then had the game winning stop. Defensively, that's clutch, fam. So you can't just give that to Kyrie and say, LeBron didn't do what he had to do. He scored 13 unanswered points in the matter of 30 seconds to free up one shot because the man was hot. He was not only dunking, hitting twos, but he hit two threes as well to open up a shot for Kyrie. And then what happens? So when Paxton wins a championship because Michael Jordan, when Jordan comes down and misses a shot, misses another shot, passes to Paxton and he hits the game winner, nobody says anything. When Steve Kerr saves him, nobody says anything. But here you are, Michael Jordan missing shot after shot and somebody else making a shot, and he's still the guy. But when LeBron scores 13 unanswered and then one other player makes a shot, he choked. How was that? He gave up the opportunity. How was that? He still made the. Look, if you look up greatest defensive plays in history, LeBron James has a number of them. Greatest fourth quarter comebacks. LeBron James, yeah. LeBron James was never Defensive Player of the Year. LeBron was Michael Jordan. If you really want to break down stats, then Michael Jordan shouldn't have been either. You have other NBA players saying the same things. Michael Jordan was not a good defender. That was the NBA giving him those awards. You don't like Michael Jordan. I grew up loving Michael Jordan. I love Michael Jordan, but I love the truth, too. But you know, you know, you know what the truth is? I'll tell you the truth. And this is. And this is what? I love the NBA. Well, loved the NBA. I grew up watching the Mike. The LeBron James era, and it was a great era. Like he. He Literally transcended the NBA. All right? And him and Steph Curry, that, that era. LeBron James was physically gifted. He had talent. He had, he had the, the, the, the, the, the, he had the, the, the scouts looking at him from day one. 13 years old. 13 years old and getting death threats because of it. Yeah, he, he was, he was the number one guy coming out of, like, like, like, he was highly recruited from day one. Michael Jordan wasn't. Michael Jordan had to work his way up. He was working his way up there. So why does that. Okay, but my whole thing is, my whole thing is LeBron James was gifted. But don't get me wrong, he still had to work. Let's talk about gifted because he's a product of a single mother. Hold on, hold on. We're talking about gifted here. Hold on. No, no, genetics. I know you're talking about, but take this into consideration. Take this into consideration. Six, nine. It doesn't matter. But check it out. Product of a single mother, was homeless eight years of his life. Okay, okay, so now coming from Akron, Ohio, to become what he is today. What the. No way. No way. But that's. You're talking about physical gifts. I, I, I get that. He was genetic. He's a manchild. He was. Genetically. He could have been, he could, he. Could have played football and all that, but he chose basketball, and that shows athleticism. Was he Right. He is genetically gifted to, to perform at a high level. Right. So he was already predisposed to that. Michael Jordan was not. Michael Jordan didn't really start playing basketball until high school. He was on the JV team in high school. He had to work his way into varsity. He had to work his way into, to UNC. He, he, like, he was the number three pick in the 1984 draft, or 85, whatever. 80. Well, it was 83. 84. But, yeah, you're right. So if you look at, if you. Look at number one pick, he was unanimous number one. If you look, if you look at, you look at the NBA players now talking, and they're like, listen, you know what's crazy? LeBron James at 15 years old. No, these are the older guys. LeBron James at 15 years old was brought down to play basketball against Jordan and everybody else, and Jordan didn't. Jordan and all the guys didn't want no younger players playing. But some of the players, we knew who he was. We pulled him on the court. He cooked everybody at 15. So even though Jordan, you think had to work hard, which I'm not saying he didn't LeBron James was cooking fellas. NBA stars at 15. 15. So at the age of 17, what was, what was Michael Jordan doing? Because LeBron was in the NBA, you. Know, you know, I, I would even put Kobe over, over LeBron. You know why? It's because of the mindset. Same thing with Kobe. Kobe had to, had to work harder. Yes, Kobe definitely had to work harder. He wasn't anywhere near as gifted. He was very successful. And Kobe was. No, he was a no nonsense type of guy. He was. So you're gonna, so you're gonna, you're gonna downplay the fact that Kobe, it's had Shaquille O'Neal for majority of his rings, no other. That's the most dominant player in the history of basketball. Two without him, bro, I get that. But we're talking about. You're bringing up Kobe, so you take away Shaquille O'Neal, Kobe has two rings. That's it. So what's your reasoning for choosing, for choosing. But I'm saying once again, LeBron is way more efficient than Kobe. Right. If you. But, but, but you, you see, you see what I think you're doing? I think you're, you're looking at it just from a basketball perspective. We're talking about basketball. No, no, I would look at it from a basketball perspective when you talk. About the greatest player of all time. Somebody said, how many, how many did Shaq have without Kobe? He has. How many did Shaq have without Kobe? He had. I think he only had one. Yeah, one. He had one. Yeah. But that was also when Shaq's got, Shaq got old. You had Dwayne Wade. He had the flash. He had prime signed Dwayne Wade. When you had, when you talk about overall basketball, it's not just what he's doing on the court, it's what he's doing outside the court to prepare him for that. LeBron had, he has 21st century, you know, medicine. But there's no reason you can't use that as a. That's not a crutch. That's not a crutch for him. So what? He has it and he's using it. Using it. Other people have money and they can do it the same. They choose not to. Being that he's choosing to do that. You can't hold that against him. I'm not holding it against him. I'm just saying that he was predisposed genetically to be great. So that's the reason that he's not better than somebody. No, no. I'm not saying it's the reason. I better. I'm saying he was predisposed genetically to be great. And then he used the assets around him to continue to leverage his greatness. They didn't have that. Michael Jordan didn't have that. He was the reason why the NBA is what it is today. He definitely paved the road. I'm not taking that from him. I'm not taking that from. At all. This is. This is why we. You. You can't. When he went into the NBA Finals, he won every single finals. He did not lose one. Exactly. You want to know why, though? This dude got. Just because of him. Basketball. He decided to retire to play baseball. No, no, no, no, you're wrong. You don't know enough about basketball. He retired because of his gambling issue, and that's what killed his father and his father. Right. That's why he retired. Not because he was done retired, but he was also. There was. There was. There was a segment where he was like, you know, I'm tired of winning. I feel like I'm too successful. I want to try something else. And he went to go try baseball. Baseball didn't work. He's like, you know what? I'm going to go back to basketball. And he came back and he dominated again. Yeah. His team was the best team in the league every year. Right. The years that LeBron was the favorite, he won. Michael Jordan was never the underdog. LeBron won one championship during COVID Like, does that even count? Why all NBA players during that time says that's the hardest thing for them to accomplish? I don't think so. That was a. That was. That was the championship during COVID Yeah. Yeah. In the bubble. Was it because everybody was like, there was a lack of fans. Lack of, like, lack of fans. No drive, no fam, no family. You couldn't even leave. You basically felt like you were in jail. That was like the. That was like the UFC fighters in Abu Dhabi. Right? Yeah. So, I mean, that's not. You can't take anything like that away. And you know, if you watch that, those Finals, you couldn't tell me that shit wasn't exciting as hell. I didn't watch. I don't watch NBA anymore. Against the Heat. That was crazy. I think the NBA is. That was crazy. It lost its credibility. But that's, you know, LeBron being a freak of nature and using. He is. There's no. He is. I know that. I want to cut in real quick. So your. Your viewpoint is LeBron is great because he has all of These modalities and all of these recovery benefits in the later series now in the 2000s, let's call it, to be able to recover better, train smarter, train harder and faster versus what Michael had at his disposal back then. Yes, yes. And you agree or don't agree to. That extent, summarize that. I agree. I agree. LeBron is definitely, you know, utilizing all the benefits of new age. But just because you have the ability to utilize it does not make you not better than somebody, plain and simple. That's it now. And once again, this is always going to be an opinion, right? But so when I'm. When I say what I'm saying, when I'm watching the game of basketball, I know what I would, if I was a coach, how I would teach my players how to play. Because just like how LeBron never got benched in the Finals. Jordan did. Jordan got benched in the finals because he goes through these times. And this is Phil Jackson benching the shit out of him for the whole third quarter and most of the fourth. And Scottie Pippen ran the team and the 16 point, I'm sorry, 20 point deficit that they brought back. You see what you're doing? Hold on, what am I doing? I'm telling you right now, the fact that your goat got benched in the finals, that they still won in and he was benched. LeBron was never benched. I could say the same thing about LeBron catching cramps during the NBA Finals game, you know how. You know how much criticism he was getting for that? Now I get it. It was hot in the arena, the air conditioning. It don't matter. He continued to play. He was barely playing. He played. And if an injury is stopping you from doing something, one thing. But if the coach is taking you out and you're supposedly the greatest player of all time, what coach don't want you on the court if you're the greatest player of all time. LeBron. You know how many memes LeBron gets from being a baby? He gets hit and he flops. And Michael Jordan didn't. Okay, my brother, so this is what we gonna do. I'm going to send you. I'm going to send you film on your homie, the king of the flop. Okay, Michael. And the fight. Yes. I'll show you, bro. Don't think that this is LeBron flopping and LeBron flops because he don't get called for fouls. You know what the referees say? I mean, we know he's getting hit, but it don't look like he's doing anything. He's just so powerful. But Michael, you can't even touch his arm and he's getting called for a foul. I'm going to send you all these videos again. Different era. Different. Different. My man, if you're averaging 15 free throws a game, what would you score? If you're shooting 90% from free throw. Line, what would you score? You were getting a hand check. And they wouldn't call that today. They would call that today. Today's. Today's. Listen, we're not talking about, we're not talking about the way the game was played then. That's not what I'm talking about at all. At all. You have to compare and contrast how it was versus what it is now. Yeah, and it's the same thing. Like, yo, if you, you find it to. So I find it. I mean, from what I've seen, put this way. So like when Michael Jordan. It's a softer game. Well, it is. It's a more. The game now is way more skilled than it was then. So back then, lack of skill leads to what, aggression? So it was. Yes, it was more rough. Right. So if the game is different that you cannot sit there and tell me that a dude. Listen, Here we go. LeBron James is a bigger, faster version of, for instance, Magic Johnson. Did you ever see the game during the finals where Magic played Michael Jordan? Magic abused him so bad that Phil Jackson had to pull him off and put Scottie on him. Right. This is the same era you're talking about. LeBron is bigger, faster, stronger, more explosive than Magic Johnson. You mean to tell me in that era when Magic was dominating, LeBron wouldn't do that. So regardless in the game, basketball, good offense would be good defense. So I get why Magic Johnson would beat Michael. But that makes sense. But of course. So why would you say it doesn't make sense? Why do you think that LeBron wouldn't dominate in that era? Let me. Okay, so let me give you. Let me tell you. How would he not. I wouldn't say. He wouldn't dump. He wouldn't be as dominant today in, during that era. Now the reason why is because of the, the level of aggression in that era was completely different. Like, like, so you think that level of aggression they, they had would have been able to stop him? They had the Detroit Pistons, they called them the bad boy pistons during the 88, 89, 90 era. And the biggest person on that team. Hold on. The biggest person on that team, the strongest person. That team was smaller than LeBron. James, hold on a second. So how you. How is they gonna. How are they gonna stop him? I wanna. Nemo's been saying some stuff in the live. I'm live. I just want to get a couple comments. And Nemo had said LeBron averaged two points in the 2011 Finals in the fourth quarter. He also said LeBron got locked down by Kawhi. And Scotty is damn near the same player. That is true. That is true. There were no fans in the bubble, which means that there was no pressure. It's like playing a pickup with your friends. That's true. Exactly. Listen, I'm not even. Detroit Pistons. They designed that team to stop Michael Jordan. They said, no, they did not. They said, no, they did not, bro. What are you talking about? The Detroit Pistons had that squad before Mike Jordan even came in the league. What are you talking about? They designed that for Michael Jordan. Added players along. The only team that designed anything for a specific player was teams that had to go against LeBron. Isaiah Thomas literally said, I hate Michael Jordan. We need to stop him. Yes, exactly. That's exactly what they did. Throwing on Joe Dumars. He was already on the team. They didn't bring in these guys. They're already on the team. Throwing in Bill Lambir. He's already on the team. He wasn't. They traded for him. He's already on the team. Traded for him? Bill Lambir. They put him on the team before. How many rings does Bill Lambert have? I don't. Maybe one. They won in 1989. How many rings does Bill Lambert have? They finally got one, two NBA championships. As a player with the Detroit Pistons in 1989. And how many times did the Pistons beat Michael Jordan? Twice for the finals. So what you talking about? They didn't bring him in for Jordan. They didn't. They smoked. They smoked Jordan every time, bro. Wasn't in the finals. They smoked, bro. Stop it, fam. They swept the dude. They swept. Homeboy. Son. He couldn't win one game. Then the following year, they win one game. Cool. Kudos, homeboy. Then you get Scotty. Then you get Scotty. But they literally. Scotty's your guy, yo. They literally put the team together. Hookah. How about. How come even your coach. You should see. The coach is saying you should see the highlights. Michael. He's a great scorer. That's crazy. Annihilate him. Abuse him. And what does he do? Let's talk about Michael's toughness. He was so mentally tough. He was so physically tough. Really? That you get abused in Your own game, and you come back the following year and what, you don't get abused no more? Why? Because you develop the best turnaround jumper in the game so you stay out the fucking hole. Get out of here. Michael was getting hit in the 1989 era. He's like, you know what? I need to come back stronger. He went into the weight room, he put on 20 pounds of muscle in off season. And you as a coach, you gonna tell me what. And then he also went. All of a sudden, he's bald. If you want to go that route. Because people like to talk shit about LeBron saying, oh, he on peds. You mean to tell me Michael Jordan, a skinny dude, an ectomorph like that, puts on 20 pounds of money, musc one off season because of his fugazi ass trainer. Get the out of here. There's no goddamn way. There's no way. 20 pounds of muscle in an off season only a few months. Michael Jordan and his body type cannot happen without drugs. Ain't no fucking way, bro. None. Wrong, none. What's an off season? None. It doesn't matter. We all none. You know good and damn well if you have a superb year with zero drugs and put on 10 to 12 pounds in a year, maybe that's superb as a natural. That's, bar none, something that nobody can do because you got to do everything right. You got to eat right, sleep right. You know he on drugs. You know, he was taking shit, drinking, smoking. So come on now. All that, and he put on 20 pounds of muscle with the gambling, the party, and all that. You mean to tell me he put on 20 pounds of muscle in the off season in four months? Not creatine. Get the fuck out of here. Five pounds of muscle a month. So my dude Nemo, don't do this. Let's bring it down. Let's bring it back down. Nemo goes. Creatine. That's awesome. Yeah, I mean. I mean, creatine, one of the most studied supplements in the world, is without question one of the best things that you can do on a daily basis. 5 grams. Now, the new standard is 10 grams that people are saying with no side effects and all positive. Creatine's a wonderful thing. Yeah, all positive from it. But, yeah, creatine as a natural athlete, that's not getting you fucking 20 pounds of muscle in an off season. That's like Barry Bonds coming back after 30 pounds of muscle in the off season, Talking about, yo, I had a great off season in the gym. Get the fuck out of Here. Are you kidding me? 30 pounds of muscle in the off season for Michael Jordan at a different, completely different body type. And you know his body type don't put on muscle fast. 20 pounds in an off season. Because I'm tough. I want to. I don't want to get beat. So why you put on the weight? If you come in and develop a turnaround jumper? You don't like Michael? Yeah, he doesn't like. We put on this weight. We put on all this weight so we don't bang bodies. We don't get down low. You don't got no post game either. You stay outside and you turn around and shoot the ball either. You really don't like that. So you ain't. You ain't tough. You ain't all that like. Come on now. You ain't bout that life like that. How many times, Cats, nobody wanted to get in Jordan's face. Jordan want to get rah rah. Anybody that went in his face, that motherfucker back down. He ain't jumping at nobody. He ain't tough. The whole league had his back. The whole league. Michael Jordan is the guy. So we're not going to call him for foul. We're going to call him for every foul he can get so he can get to the fucking line. He's going to win these. When he gets two steals a game, we're going to say it's six. Listen, at the end of the day. It'S business back home. The commissioner. Not a chance. The commissioner said, whoa, we have one of the greatest players to ever play. He's going to transition the game. He literally paved basketball for what it is today. He did. Even from his perspective. Now, if you were to own the. NBA, if you were to. If you were there, if you were the commissioner of the NBA. Forget that. If you were the commissioner of NBA and you had this player, you say this is a gold mine. Do not touch him. Do not hurt him. He's making 100%. 100%. So what's the problem? So that means real basketball ain't coming your way, fam. Same thing with LeBron. It's doctored for you. But the same thing with LeBron. Even all the players said it. Listen, you know what Wilt Chamberlain said, yo, you know what the funny thing is? Oh, Wilt Chamberlain's. He's a different man. So he says. Wilt Chamberlain said. The funny thing between you and I to Michael Jordan. They changed the league to prevent me from scoring. They changed the league to help you score a lot Boom. What's up? How many players say, listen, we're not allowed to touch Mike. We're not even in pictures. As jokes. Don't get too close to Mike. We don't get called for a foul. That's true. That's true. Come on, now. And then you get to the line 15 times a game, you shoot 90% from the line. You get 15. 15 shots, free shots off bullshit fouls, and you score 30 points, bitch, that ain' you shot the ball 30 fucking times. 40 times. And you made 15 of your points from the line, and you finished the night with 30, motherfucker. You scored seven times. So that's the reason why the NBA is so soft today. You're welcome. Michael Jordan did that. What, making it soft? Yeah, could be. Because now players can't touch that dude. You cannot touch Mike. You know it's right. Cause players like Kobe started to come out, LeBron started to come out, and they can't touch them because if they. If they get hurt, ticket sales go down. What you mean they can't touch LeBron? LeBron doesn't get fouls called for him, yo. Yes, he does. How many times a game does LeBron go to the foul line? Oh, my God. Okay, let's finish this. Let's finish this. I can actually tell you. I can actually tell you. You gotta finish this one up, people. I can actually tell you a real one, man. He says, you don't think LeBron on something the way he still. He's still dunking. Wilt was a center playing against shooting guards. That is true. Basketball is just not my. This is a fitness podcast that it started out as it transitioned into a basketball debate that I had to get in last night. LeBron James went to the line once the night before, he went to the line twice because he's shooting threes. The dude is shooting threes. Okay. He's better yet last night, how many other night? Two threes. Only night before that, one three. How many field goals has he taken? 15 attempts, 11 attempts, 12 attempts. 16, 20, 25. And he's still dropping 30 spots, but also getting. But you know why he's dropping 30s now? Because they're scoring 130, 150 points a game. So it's easier to score. It is very Easy to score 30 points in today's game. Wait a minute. It's not easy for Jordan when you get sent to the line 15 times, that's half your points, man. That's half your fucking points from the line. But they were scoring 80 to 90 points a game. That's hap. And he shoots the ball 40 times a game. 40 times for 30 points, my nigga. You should have 80. That's a horrible fucking. That's a horrible fucking record. Judge Rizzles is presiding over this now. Okay, Jamal, I still love you, bro. It's all love. Oh, it's all love. But I've never felt more out of place because I just don't follow that at all. So here's what we gotta do. You gotta get out of here. Yeah. All right. You gotta get out of here. We got. We got more stuff to talk about. We'll talk about it. We'll do another episode. Jay. Yeah, I'm just. I. I actually love the debates. No, I do, too. Jordan and LeBron stuff. But I gotta reel it back in. Though, otherwise it'll just keep going. It's fun. It's fun. Close. It's fun. It's one of those things where I actually, like, document and hold it. Like games where Jordan used to score, like 40 some odd points. The amount of shots he took and the amount of points he scored from the line, it's like astronomical. It's like, wait a minute, bro. How'd you score 42 points tonight when you literally were 10 for 30? Yeah, but doesn't that amaze you, though? Like. Like he was. Are you amazed? Hold on a second. Hold on, let me. Let me finish. Like, he was still able to have that mindset of I'm still gonna. Gonna dog you. Yeah, but that's. Even has that mindset because he knows he's getting called for the foul. Hold on a second. The moment he catches the ball and does this and turns around, you touch him, you. He's going. Hold on a second. He's going to the foul line. But. But he. He. Look, you know. You know, what's. You know. You know why LeBron, Michael Jordan, like. Like, mindset was so good is because he would miss 10 in a row, but he would still think that the 11th is going in. Of course. You know, of course. Hands down. Hands down, that's a great mentality. But we're not talking about mentalities because. But that's exactly why I think LeBron and Mike and why I think Michael and Kobe is better than LeBron because of the mentality. Your mentality doesn't make you a better player. It does. No, it doesn't. The mentality doesn't. Because if you're not as efficient with this mentality, you're technically like a wild beast. You got to Remember, if your coach is telling you, chill, stop shooting the fucking ball so much, then you're doing something wrong. Just because you like to do it doesn't mean it. So I'm ask you this question. If you coached a team and you had one kid out there ball hogging and shooting the amount that Mike did, you be okay with it. In teaching the game of basketball, you would not teach any single player, young kid how to play like Michael Jordan. You would teach them to play like LeBron. But that's a good question. So if that kid kept missing every single shot. No. If the kid missed ten in a row. Hold on a second. Would you, would you let him shoot the 11th? Hold on a second. Look, I've, I've been in leagues like that where I had, where, where there was a player who consistently missed shots. But, but you know why, why, why the coach kept that player in is because the, the way that he dominated the game outside of just missing, and he still had the confidence to, to, to play at a high level. So I think you would teach your. Players to play like that. If, when you know your shots cold, you wouldn't teach your teacher players, but like to work on trying to get an assist and get into a goal to then start shooting. That's exactly what I'm saying. Like, he would miss, but, but, but he would still play good defense. They would still rebound the ball. They would still be a leader on the court or. First off, Michael Jordan ain't getting rebounds. All right, you know, let's. Yeah, let's finish this. No, no, no, dude, you think Michael Jordan used to get rebounds. He was averaging like six rebounds a game. Is that, is that great at that? LeBron at that time? Yes. Look at LeBron. He averages more. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Okay, Google. How many rebounds on average was Michael Jordan getting? I'm not arguing that. Michael Jordan averaged 6.2 rebounds per game during his NBA career. Yeah, and, and it was, it was games that average 80, 90 games. What about LeBron James? A lot of makes. LeBron James averages 7.5 rebounds per game during his NBA career. Career. Yeah. All right, who is the best? Michael Jordan or LeBron James? Well, they always going to do that. The best player is subjective and depends on individual criteria. Both Michael Jordan and LeBron James are considered among the greatest of all time with exceptional skills and accomplishments. Michael Jordan, widely regarded for his offensive dominance, defensive intensity, and unmatched competitive spirit. He led the Chicago Bulls to six NBA championships and won five MVP awards. LeBron James, known for his all around game, incredible athleticism and basketball iq. He has won four NBA championships with three different teams and is the all time leading scorer in NBA history. Here's a table summarizing some key stats. I knew LeBron was going to be. LeBron James the first season he entered the league. Because. Because I get up on that mic. I knew LeBron was going to be an all time leading scorer the first season he came into the league. That's just because I saw, I saw the greatness in him already and I knew that he was going to be in this league for a very long time. I just saw it in him, you know, Michael, I'm telling you, if it wasn't for Michael Jordan, the NBA wouldn't. Yeah, of course that I'm not taking away from him. During that era, he was the guy. But when you sit there and put it up where it's like, yo, who's better, who's. Especially when you say who's a better basketball player, my man. If you're averaging more assists, rebounds, a better three point percentage, a better two point percentage, you finish better at the rim. You finish at the rim the same at the same percentage that Shaquille O'Neal did. The most dominant player. And you're not a center. Okay, hold on, let me ask you one more question. Who would you. And I think I know where you. Who would I start my team with? LeBron. LeBron. And once again, here you have one player who started at center, started at point guard, started at the two guard, started at forward, started at power forward. He started at each. He can play each position. Michael Jordan could never. I agree 100%. Could never. And the thing is, he dominated those positions and now he guards all those positions. Michael can't guard a center. Michael can't guard a power forward. Come on, dude. He couldn't stop. He couldn't stop. He couldn't stop Magic. And Magic was a point guard. He couldn't stop Charles Barkley. And he was a power forward at 64 and he's 6'six you mean to tell me that he can stop a power forward? LeBron James stops, centers, power forwards, forwards, shooting guards and point guards. Best defensive stops in the history of basketball. Come to LeBron. No more. No response. No response allowed. You gotta wait till next episode. Sup? All right, next episode. So if you're gonna build a team, you're gonna build a team on. You know what, if this guy gets injured, I could always play him at any Fucking position. And he dominates. And he plays it the way it's supposed to be played. He plays the bat, the game of basketball the way it's supposed to be played. So back in the day, you bring up. You bring up basketball back in the day. So do you remember the defensive, the illegal defense rule? You know what that rule was, right? Back in the day, nobody talks about this shit. But here you are, you have the ball, you're not allowed, you're not allowed to leave your man to come and double up the guy who has the ball. Now watch LeBron's game winners and how many people are defending him. They'll have four. Even Tim Duncan, he said, we played five people against LeBron. Every time he would grab the ball, we threw four people at him. We didn't care. We wanted the other players to beat us because he himself could beat us. So we threw four people. That's four people on one. Michael Jordan had a one on one person all the time. Illegal defense prevented double teams, triple and quadruple teams, but that's what LeBron faces. So when he drives the lane and four, four drops on him, there's four open players. The smart and the right move to make is to hit one of them, because they're also professional athletes. But Michael Jordan ain't hitting game winners over four people. LeBron is. And on that note, no more, no more, no more, no more. On that note, around the horn. It's been over two hours. Around the horn. Plug, plug, plug your business Plug the. Business we'll get you back to do another episode Plug the business Plug your business what's the name of the business? Where can people find you? And social media didn't even say your name. So my name is Dr. Eugene Israel, love. I opened a company, Vital Rehab in Physical Therapy. Vital Rehab and Performance Physical Therapy located inside Siege Athletics. Yeah, pretty much it. Jay, Plug, this is me, Plug. Come on, jay. There's Jay. Mr. Intensity. That's me. Yeah, that's the homie right there. All day. Okay, so good debate at the end. We'll get you back in to do more stuff. It was funny. The TikTok stuff I like. TikTok's gonna be banned on Sunday. But what do you mean? Oh, yeah, the Supreme Court and. Well, not Supreme Court, the Congress. They're voting, but they moved to ban it. Elon's trying to buy it. I think Mr. Beast is trying to buy it because. So we can end on this. Like actually end on this because it's very funny. All the people on TikTok I find hysterical that everybody is leaving TikTok because of the ban. They're pissed at the US government. The main. I understand and I don't. And I also don't agree with it. At the same time, they're saying that this communist Communist Chinese party has ties. And you can see it in the terms and service. This is why Joe Rogan talked about it, originally refused to download it in the terms of conserve the terms and conditions in the service. It really does show some fucking crazy shit where they can see what you press on your screen. Like they're taking all this feedback. About to erase it off my phone right now. Well, wait before you do, because if a US company takes it over, I mean, listen, they spy on you on any fucking app. I just find hysterical that they'd rather. They'd rather a US company spy on you versus an overseas one. But now everybody on TikTok is abandoning TikTok to go to an app called RedNote, which is literally Chinese TikTok. And it's like in Beijing or something like that. So now they're showing that they're talking to people over in China on a regular. Like they're our people are talking more to a lot of people on in China. And I showed my mom this. And my worry is that these people are gonna think that whatever these people from China say is exactly like, is exactly how it goes on over there. They're like, what are you talking about? We live in these beautiful apartments for 500amonth and this and that. Like, to me, that could be propaganda. Them like, oh, now we have all these people from America looking at this app. Let's start putting some of the people in power to start showing how great it is over here and how amazing. And so now you have people that are watching that thinking that our own government is like, this is why they didn't want us to do this. Because now they're showing a different way of life. But it could just be fake. So now you have real. You have real people going and using a real CCP app. Shit. So I don't know. So it's all weird. I'm keeping it on my phone. We'll see what happens. You know, that's where my biggest following is. But then I took a hiatus. They tanked me on views. We used to get millions of views on podcast clips and now we get 200, 300. Yeah. So, yeah, they put me in TikTok jail six months. I stopped posting. And then I decided to start posting again. And they threw me in jail. So realistically I believe that YouTube is the long play lives. You know what I just did with TikTok live while we were talking about this stuff, I'd like to be able to do on YouTube live for a podcast and then cut it up like Rogan used to do all live podcasts and then he put the full thing out as a separate video. So I'd like to do that. Requires a little bit. Yeah, requires a little bit different setup in here, but we'll figure it out. So listen, I appreciate you coming in, hanging out with us, debating Jamal, chilling out, very relaxed. You're the man, dude. We're gonna have you in for another one. My pleasure, everybody. I appreciate all y'all for with us, but for now, peace, Peace. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for tuning. In to Rizzology, the best podcast for. Both you and your daughters. Thank you.