IT: Welcome to Derry S1 E8 Winter Fire - My Heart Burns There Too

Jackie and Jeff delve into the season finale of HBO Max's IT series, Welcome to Derry, Winter Fire. They explore the significance of the episode's title, the visual aesthetics that enhance the horror experience, and the emotional dynamics between characters. The discussion also touches on the impact of costume and set design, the complexities of Pennywise as a villain, and the overarching themes of love and loss. As they reflect on the character arcs, particularly General Shaw's downfall, they speculate on the potential for a second season and the connections to the original IT narrative.

Timestamps:

00:00 Intro

00:28 Love

16:17 Hate

18:05 Thoughts/Questions

Intro & Outro Music by Jeff Kadlic 

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Watch here: https://youtu.be/xeniEHq3XzA 

Jeff’s episodes on MADE with Jackie Hanzl

Listen here:

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https://www.buzzsprout.com/2304882/episodes/15331811

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Jackie & Diana break down and dissect HBO MAX series. They discuss everything from where it took them emotionally, to character critiques, to fun facts about wardrobe choices. Jackie & Diana work together at an elementary school in the Hudson Valley in NY. Jackie is a speech-language pathologist & Diana is a school psychologist.

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Transcript

Jacqueline Hanzl (00:08)
Hi, this is Jackie. And this is HomeBodiesOnly where we welcome all bodies to join us as we break down and dissect HBO Max series. And this episode, we are talking about it. Welcome to Dairy, season one, episode eight, Winter Fire, the season finale.

Jeff Kadlic (00:09)
And this is Jeff.

Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (00:28)
Okay. ⁓ So let's start with loves. ⁓ The title, Winter Fire which refers to the poem that Ben Hanscom writes to ⁓ Bev Marsh. Do you know it didn't click to me at first? ⁓ But then I read something, I was like, yeah, duh. I thought also it had to do with

Jeff Kadlic (00:46)
No!

Jacqueline Hanzl (00:56)
It wasn't winter though, I guess. Well, it looked like a winter fire in the episode too with the smoke and the ice, right? And it looked cold. So I don't know if there was a combo going on, but I have to say the lines because I love them so much. Your hair, winter fire, January embers. My heart burns there too. So I am reading the book and so Bev Marsh, not in the It 1990 movie, but in the book and I believe in the

Jeff Kadlic (01:01)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally did. Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (01:26)
maybe the new It movies, she's a redhead. And that's what winter fire, the winter fire in January embers. And it's talking about her red hair, but also like the love for her. So it's just interesting with, as I'm going through this book and the differences and it's like, there's all these different, I feel like it's so deep and I'm...

Jeff Kadlic (01:33)
Hmm

Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (01:54)
I know we've talked about it. don't like, we're not as deep into it and it's just learning different things and like that makes sense.

Jeff Kadlic (01:55)
Yeah.

It's fun to get

into it. But that poem, that's in the... Right, it's in the future, but it's in the 1990 movie that we watched. okay. I didn't catch that connection there.

Jacqueline Hanzl (02:07)
That's in the future from this.

Yes. Yes. I mean...

Well, I didn't at first, I saw it somewhere, something about winter fire. Why did I? I was like, duh, cause I loved that poem. But also those, so.

Jeff Kadlic (02:30)
Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (02:39)
We see Bev Marsh in this episode. She's at the end. That's Bev Marsh, whose mother is hanging.

Yeah. But I'll, I'll talk about that later with my thoughts if you'd So, okay. So I love the title. Yeah, we can talk about that. know I was like, yeah. I love, I loved the transition from, ⁓ they're showing the dagger and then they transition to decaloran.

Jeff Kadlic (02:54)
Okay, wait a second. Alright, yeah, yeah, alright, we're come back to this. So I just had a thought as soon as you mentioned that. Nevermind, we'll wait, we'll wait.

Jacqueline Hanzl (03:19)
screaming and they just show his mouth. ⁓ That was so good and he's telling the adults where he sees the dagger that he sees it with the kids. That was so cool. It's funny because so I watched it shortly after it came out and then I didn't watch it for a while and then we were like, okay, we're gonna record, you all the holidays happen. And I was like, I gotta rewatch this. I was like, I don't think I liked it as much as episode seven. ⁓ But I really did like it. was

Jeff Kadlic (03:21)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (03:49)
beautiful, it was beautiful, like the scary part and the winter fire and the smoke and the ice and it was actually really like sadly beautiful, like, right?

Jeff Kadlic (03:57)
Yeah, that set

was really fun to just spend time in because I love the blue filter they went with, just really fit well with the whole tone of everything. getting back to that transition, yeah, that was really cool. It almost came across as like a practical effect. ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (04:05)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (04:27)
⁓ if they did some camera work. ⁓ I mean obviously they did camera work but ⁓ it's with CGI or whatever but it had like a kind of a sort of an old-timey look to it in a way like old-school special effect. But ⁓ a little bit more modern, a little bit more detailed but yeah that was really cool.

Jacqueline Hanzl (04:43)
Mm-hmm. yeah.

Yeah, I mean also to the whole blue, that filter, that time when they were in the, whatever they were in the winter fire or whatever. Yeah, it looked also too like they were underwater. I mean, I know they showed a lot of like slow motion things, but even when Pennywise, I know was moving at one point, he might've been almost in a way joking, but like not to be, you skipping? Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (05:02)
on the lake.

He's skipping around and skating around.

He's... He's... He had all the moves going in that scene. He was having a great time on the frozen lake.

Jacqueline Hanzl (05:20)
But even yeah, like

and then he keeps getting punched like shot at and the blood like, you know, again, I'm not a huge gore person, but I actually thought that was really cool when the blood was like in slow motion. It looked underwater. It was it was that was very cool. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (05:34)
Yeah.

Yeah,

when Leroy shot him from across the lake.

Jacqueline Hanzl (05:45)
Yeah, you were like, ⁓ I loved when that Rich came back to help them. my God. That kid, that kid just like kills me.

Jeff Kadlic (05:56)
Yeah,

I did too. ⁓ Okay, I'm let you go. I've got questions about that.

Jacqueline Hanzl (06:02)
I will say though, I didn't,

I have mixed feelings about him giving Pennywise the finger. I don't know why, not think, I am not, you know, I'm not, I curse all the time and I am totally into stuff like that.

Jeff Kadlic (06:13)
Right.

Jacqueline Hanzl (06:18)
And the first time I watched it, was like, I don't know. I felt like it took away.

Jeff Kadlic (06:24)
Okay, you didn't like the tone of it? I love that. I thought it was great. Because he had the, you know, think what makes it work is because he had the drumstick in his back pocket. So it's kind of like, you know, it's a little tongue-in-cheek. It can kind of ⁓ break up the, you know, the tension a little bit.

Jacqueline Hanzl (06:26)
Like, he's like, but that, well, no, I'll tell you then, and then I kept seeing stuff. The drumsticks in his pocket. ⁓

Yeah. ⁓

I think part

of it is, I have a thing. Okay. But then when I watched it the second time I was into it, I was like, that's right. He's like, F you. don't know why the first time I was like, Oh God. I don't don't know. For some reason. And the second time I watched it, was like, I have a thing with, I hate, this is kind of off tangent, but I hate when there's like, especially a celebrity.

Jeff Kadlic (07:00)
Yeah, no, I get it, I get it. Sometimes they don't sit right.

Jacqueline Hanzl (07:13)
I hate when people give the finger in pictures, like, so much. Like, okay, you're giving the finger. You're a rebel. Like, there's a certain celebrity that, well, Renee, it's Renee Rapp. She was in ⁓ Sex Lives of College Girls and I followed her and everything. And every freaking Instagram post, she'd have like, if there was a photo dump there, always be one with her giving the finger and make it a face. And I was like,

Jeff Kadlic (07:16)
Hmm.

⁓ okay. Yeah, well, I...

Hmm

Jacqueline Hanzl (07:43)
You know, it's kind of funny,

like, ⁓ that's funny, because I did post an Instagram story of myself giving the finger, but I blocked it out. Because I work for a school, but I don't know. I feel like it's overdone. It's overdone is my thing with the finger.

Jeff Kadlic (07:52)
Yeah, right. Well, yeah, it's probably overdone,

but it's also a thing of, think that not everybody can pull that off. you know, it's kind of like, ⁓ the, you know, like taking singing lessons is a bit like taking getting tall lessons. Either you can sing or you can't. You can get better, but...

Jacqueline Hanzl (08:08)
That's true.

Right. That's true.

Jeff Kadlic (08:22)
Yeah, and you know, yeah, if you're giving the finger to the camera or something like that, it's kind of like a rock and roll thing. Either you got it or you don't.

Jacqueline Hanzl (08:28)
Yes. Right, and-

Jeff Kadlic (08:34)
But it worked for me.

Jacqueline Hanzl (08:34)
I feel like if JLo

did it or like, not J, like Jennifer Garner, he'd be like, ⁓ snap. Cause she's like, whatever. I'm going off on a tangent. Yeah. Like, yes. ⁓ So anyway, but I did, I did love him coming back. I did, I actually did the second time around. I was like, yeah. Okay. Like it must've just been the mood I was in. I don't know. Or maybe I was more focused. ⁓ I loved when General Shaw got killed. I have some thoughts and questions about that, but.

Jeff Kadlic (08:40)
Right. Yeah, yeah, right. It'd be more effective in a way. Yeah, that would be punk rock for her, Yeah.

Yeah. yeah, he got his.

Jacqueline Hanzl (09:03)
I loved when he got killed. was like, duh, duh,

duh. I don't know, duh. That's all I have to say is duh. ⁓ I did love Richard the Cemetery with his parents. That kid just, that kid kills me. ⁓ Will and Ronnie's, and this, you know what's funny? I definitely paid better attention. I'm glad I watched it a second time. Well, I would not, yeah, I wouldn't have had good notes. I paid better attention to it.

Jeff Kadlic (09:16)
Yeah, there were some nice moments in that epilogue, for sure.

Jacqueline Hanzl (09:32)
second time. I don't know what I was doing the first time around. Will and Ronnie's kiss and the sun shining behind them. It was really, it was good. It was really good. Sometimes when little kids kiss, like, but it was, I sound like this crazy person.

Jeff Kadlic (09:39)
Hmm.

Okay, yeah, I must... I think

I remember that now from my first viewing. I guess maybe I was like writing something and I missed it the second time through. But all these kids like we've talked about, you know, they're great performances and although... ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (10:01)
Yeah, they... Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (10:11)
Ronnie, I was laughing at a few times because I'm like, man Ronnie's just, she's so pissed off all the time. She's really, she's really pissed off. Yay. ⁓ yeah. I'm like, man, I wouldn't want to do something to get her mad at me. Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (10:18)
Yes, she always looks pissed. That was one thing. That was... She's like, she always kind of looks like she's constipated.

She's gonna kill you. Like she

was getting mad at Lily with that dagger. She was like, ⁓ no, I thought the same thing. was like, she looks like she's constipated right now. But so when she and Will...

Jeff Kadlic (10:34)
Yeah.

Boom.

She can shoot a look too, she can give you like a look.

Jacqueline Hanzl (10:43)
God,

yes she can. She, yeah. When they kiss it's sweet and just like, it's what happens I think, does she kiss him? And then they pull back and they kiss again. And that's when they, the camera pulls back and you see the sun shining behind them. And it's not corny, it's like pretty, it looks really cool. And the music is good. Like it's not corny or whatever, so.

Jeff Kadlic (11:10)
Yeah, the, I don't know, technically, like it's the color correction or just, you know, the warm look of the whole show. In this episode particularly, outst-

Jacqueline Hanzl (11:19)
Mm-hmm.

Well, because

it was finally, like this was the warmest at the end because everything was lifted. It always had a little bit of a darker feel to it. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (11:26)
Yeah, you're right. Yeah.

But I mean, the show looked great and overall to me and

the, you know, the costume design was awesome. Like even ⁓ in the beginning of the episode when the patty cakes come walking into the auditorium, just the colors of their sweaters that they all have on looked great, you know? And there's just, you know, across the board throughout the show, there's just great examples of that.

Jacqueline Hanzl (11:54)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Even, and even I was thinking too at the funeral at the cemetery, the girl, I mean, they were wearing obviously darker clothes and stuff, but they looked, I mean, they looked really cute. Like they had the little sweaters on and the way they were dressed ⁓ And I I loved Marge's speech or eulogy that she did. And like, I think too, it depends, I'm watching the show and emotionally, and I'm like, she's like.

Jeff Kadlic (12:15)
Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (12:30)
But some friends are in your heart. I'm like, She's like, it doesn't matter how long you know them or whatever. I was like, ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (12:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, well, I was a little thrown off when she's just used Rich, you know? Because I call him Richie. I feel like that was happening more earlier in the season. He was being addressed as Richie, but then the kids started being Richie. She was like, I didn't know Rich long. I was like, who's Rich? I was like, it's Richie.

Jacqueline Hanzl (12:46)
We call him Richie, but I don't know.

I'd have to go back.

I think, I don't know, I

feel like we might have nicknamed him that too because of Richie. I don't know. He's Richie. He's actually Ricardo. Ricardo Santos. Okay, that's what I have for love. I'm sure I loved more, but...

Jeff Kadlic (13:08)
Maybe.

Maybe.

three.

Jacqueline Hanzl (13:25)
I'm sure you'll say stuff and I'll be like, yeah, me too.

Jeff Kadlic (13:29)
Well, the one that I had was the costumes design. And then it was actually that scene I just mentioned in the auditorium that made me think about that a little bit more. I've liked it for the most part across the board, but ⁓ that was really great. the... ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (13:35)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (13:58)
These are not necessarily in sequence to the episode, but when when Leroy and Will have that exchange on ice

he gives Will the dagger, you know, and they just have like a nice father and son moment there and he's like, I'm not you. Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (14:15)
I'm not you. Is that when Will says I'm not? Yes. I liked the S. I love that part

too. I teared up. was like,

Jeff Kadlic (14:22)
Yeah, that was a

nice beat. Especially after, I don't know, can't remember if it was the previous episode where Will smacked him in the face. That was just terrible. I'm sorry, Leroy, yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (14:31)
where they at? Ooh, Leroy smacked Will. Yeah, that was,

that might've been two before that. Yeah, yes. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (14:39)
Yeah, so was nice to see that turnaround there.

Yes, I as well loved when General Shaw got his face chewed off. That was pretty great.

Jacqueline Hanzl (14:51)
Yeah

Jeff Kadlic (14:54)
It's not necessarily ⁓ something that I love, but I thought it was really funny when ⁓ they give... when Rose gives Dick the peyote tea or the... what do they call it? Maternity.

Jacqueline Hanzl (15:11)
and he didn't know what she was saying.

Jeff Kadlic (15:16)
not that but when when Leroy so so he drinks the tea so there's a big right explanation about what it's going to do and how it's going to change like how he perceives the evil but not everything in the space where he's going to be is evil and so he drinks it down and and then Leroy's like he gives like this shrug and he's like how long is it going to take?

Jacqueline Hanzl (15:24)
right.

Mm-hmm.

You

Jeff Kadlic (15:43)
It was literally like four seconds and I just kind of I was like because he's like, you know if it's with his character actually because he's like really kind of antsy He's impatient especially at this point in the story, you know, he's like I got time to wait in there, you know this at this point Will is trapped and he wants to get to him. But I was like what he just literally drank it like a second ago Yeah, so I thought that was funny but

Jacqueline Hanzl (15:45)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And what's it gonna take? impatient.

Jeff Kadlic (16:10)
⁓

so those are kind of my loves and things I found funny about the episode.

Jacqueline Hanzl (16:17)
Alright, I only have two hates. I hated that Taniele died. horrible, course. The military.

Jeff Kadlic (16:19)
Hmm. Mmm, yeah.

Yeah, that was very frustrating, especially by the hands of the

military. Yeah, yep, would have been nice if he kind of, you know, died possibly a more noble death, I guess.

Jacqueline Hanzl (16:35)
was able to survive, I know.

Yeah,

yeah. I hated General Shaw.

Jeff Kadlic (16:44)
Yeah, he was really just completely self obsessed with his pursuit right up until the end. So consistent at least, but he was writing Leroy off and you know, we don't need him. That's it. So.

Jacqueline Hanzl (16:45)
I just hated him.

Yeah.

I know. Like,

oh my god. So those were... I think that was it.

Jeff Kadlic (17:10)
Classic military schmuck and the officer beneath him too, that jughead.

Yeah, didn't, I didn't, there was nothing in this episode for me that I didn't like. I was like, ⁓ I mean... ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (17:24)
Okay.

Yeah, I mean, it wasn't that I disliked that part of the episode. just hated that that happened. Yeah. Yeah. I don't have any I can relate. Thank God.

Jeff Kadlic (17:31)
Yeah, commenting on this. Yeah, the story, sure.

No, yeah,

I, ⁓ no, me neither. There's too much crazy shit going on in this. Like, I, my life's not that interesting. In terms of this, supernatural. ⁓ No, yeah, yeah, I hear you. No, I'm, I'm, I'm never bored, but yeah, this, this is next level stuff here.

Jacqueline Hanzl (17:46)
Mmm.

Yeah, I don't need it to be. I mean, I might be bored sometimes, but I don't need that.

All right, so thoughts, questions. I'm still like, well, you just said it, how General Shaw was like obsessed with.

It but why did he want to save It? Did he, cause he was like, you're, he almost acted like it was his pet or his child and you're free, you can go. And like he almost felt bad for it. And I'm like, wait, what did he, what, what was it? Did he not, and then he, when he changed the form of scaring him, he was like, well, he didn't realize.

Jeff Kadlic (18:22)
Mm-hmm.

Was that a callback to the scene in the woods with the old guy looking for a sig... looking for a cigarette? I must have seen an old guy looking for a cigarette at some point in my life that looked like him. It's, you know...

Jacqueline Hanzl (18:40)
So confused.

Yes. The old guy. We were like, hey, want to smoke?

Funny. ⁓ Yeah, I was just, I don't know. I was a little confused.

Jeff Kadlic (19:07)
If it

be, I feel like the arc of General Shaw, like very early on, it was like in the interest of the United States military. And of course they're putting in other elements. They're building in other elements to his story along the way with Rose and his history to Derry and all that stuff. But it, yeah, he got a little bit.

Jacqueline Hanzl (19:17)
Yes, but then...

Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (19:33)
for lack of a better way to describe it, lost in the woods towards the end there. It was just kind of like, he just had to have some sort of connection or settin this thing free. I don't really, it's sort of still unclear what his motivation was for his pursuit. Did he just want to personally face ⁓ Pennywise or this,

Jacqueline Hanzl (19:37)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah, I mean-

Jeff Kadlic (20:02)
Force, know, this supernatural force. Or is it, a combination of the two and... I don't know. It's... I don't really know what to make of it.

Jacqueline Hanzl (20:13)
I'm

not sure either because in the one episode how he was like, look how quiet it is now because of fear, people are scared. So I was like, okay, he wants it for that. But then it seemed like a personal thing where he was like.

Jeff Kadlic (20:21)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, like that he wanted to, the agenda was to weaponize Pennywise.

Jacqueline Hanzl (20:33)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. But then he's like, you're free like a pet. Like I said, like a, it was weird. Like he loved him almost. Like that. Like it was so odd. I mean, that was a really cool, that was a great scene and well acted and everything, but I was still a little like, not sure.

Jeff Kadlic (20:44)
Yeah. Yeah.

Why did Pennywise freeze there though? Was that because of the proximity to that tree? Because the dagger wasn't... I didn't really quite understand that because the kids had not started to bring the dagger. That was their whole purpose of the episode was to take that dagger and put it back in that tree because that forms, right? Doesn't that... the perimeter?

Jacqueline Hanzl (21:01)
The dagger? the tree. Right.

Me neither, yeah.

Wait, though, also?

Yes, yes, also.

Was that when Dick... Remember like then we had... my God.

Jeff Kadlic (21:34)
I don't know what was

going on with all that. I was like, okay, where this he's everywhere Well, he's in the cart, you know, that's a whole other thing we gotta talk about

Jacqueline Hanzl (21:38)
He's on that peyote now.

Well, that was the thing too, because then when... IT was back as like Bob Gray and that guy who was actually Dick was like, what's up, Bob? You were drinking, you were in the ditch.

Jeff Kadlic (21:59)
Yeah, because that's when that's when the that child walks out of the wood when Bob Gray is on break smoking a cigarette having a drink and then he doesn't he follow him into the woods?

Jacqueline Hanzl (22:07)
Right. Yes.

Yeah, but he ended up like dying. I'm saying like that, that whole part that was like Dick being put back in time or put back in a portal or another dimension or something. I think that's when Pennywise was frozen. But right? Isn't that when Pennywise?

Jeff Kadlic (22:14)
.

Yeah, he's tired.

No, no that because that well the way I read it was that it ⁓ In this episode we see ⁓ Pennywise is coming to but he's he's ⁓ inhabited the body of bob gray And he's it's very much he's like, he's trying to put two and two together like where am I who is this and and but somehow

Jacqueline Hanzl (22:43)
Body, yes.

Yeah. Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (22:56)
He... ⁓ So we don't really know the timeline because we know that Dick is in there as, as an other guy.

Jacqueline Hanzl (23:06)
Right. guy. The

ringleader, like ringleader in terms of a circus ringleader.

Jeff Kadlic (23:11)
But

is that the result of him time traveling sort of in current ⁓ day of the episode? Because that's the past. And so yeah, it's like, gets, which it's fun, know, it's fun to roll that around. But because Pennywise, you know, obviously identifies him and he's like, I see what you're doing. Tricky dick.

Jacqueline Hanzl (23:15)
Mm-mm.

Right.

Right. It was very confusing.

Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Then he realized.

Jeff Kadlic (23:39)
you and yet i don't know you know if you put his hand down you know it's the skin color change uh...

Jacqueline Hanzl (23:42)
Yes, his hand was Dick's hand. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's when he figured out it wasn't, yeah. So yeah,

that was... I'm still wondering why IT loves that form of Pennywise so much.

Jeff Kadlic (23:57)
Yeah, I did wonder

that a few times as well. Like, it's, ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (24:01)
because it's just such a, I don't know, like, okay, I don't know. And then it was interesting, they had the scene where he went to all the different forms he had been. He went to that old man with the cigarette, he went to the baby, he went, ⁓ I forgot to put this in the love. I actually loved when he became like the flying dragon thingy that he became.

Jeff Kadlic (24:24)
Yeah,

whole metamorphosis and then... yeah, became the... a very big, big version of the Dragon Baby. And then the metamorphosis... Oh yeah!

Jacqueline Hanzl (24:31)
That was earlier.

But that was cooler looking to me than that was

earlier, because that was when he was trying to stop the kids from getting the dagger.

Jeff Kadlic (24:40)
Right, so he's flying

up on the tree and then ⁓ he pulls back whatever and then that's when we see those life cycles or whatever, metamorphosis happening and then he deconstructs or something and then turns into that star and disappears.

Jacqueline Hanzl (24:44)
That whole scene was really cool. Blows back.

He changes into all of them. Yes. Yeah. Yep.

He still has some kind of comment. He's like, this is a lively audience, lively crowd. I'm like.

Jeff Kadlic (25:04)
Yeah, yeah. Lively

crowd. Yeah, that was good.

Jacqueline Hanzl (25:07)
to throw

something in there. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (25:10)
Yeah, there's a sense of humor there for sure. Maybe that's what he likes about the clown persona.

Jacqueline Hanzl (25:12)
Gotta get the last word.

The clown, yeah.

⁓ so I have here, that's Bev Marsh at the end whose mother killed herself. The actor who plays Bev in that scene is, okay.

Jeff Kadlic (25:32)
Wait a second, slow down.

I have to brain compute power here, hold on. The, the, Bev Marsh no, young we, young Bev

Jacqueline Hanzl (25:35)
Okay.

young Bev Marsh.

Jeff Kadlic (25:41)
is with the black hair in the show, right? Is that, no, no, no, that's a lid. Who's Bev? Wait a minute, I'm confused.

Jacqueline Hanzl (25:48)
No.

Bev Marsh from It 1990, the movie. Bev Marsh, the girl.

Jeff Kadlic (25:53)
okay.

it's my girl on the bike. Right? Is she on the bike? That's not Bev No.

Jacqueline Hanzl (26:02)
Bev

Marsh is the one who, she's the only girl in the Losers Club in that one, in 1950, well that one was supposed to be in 1957, even though this one is 1962, it's all confusing. So we see Mrs. Kirsch, Ingrid, ends up at Juniper Hill like we thought she would. Yep, then we see her as an old lady, painting, that's her. That actress also was,

Jeff Kadlic (26:06)
Well, that's their buddy, sorry. Yeah, in the crew, yeah.

She's in the straight jacket.

Yeah, that I connected.

Jacqueline Hanzl (26:31)
apparently in the It movies, the newer It movies and plays Ingrid Kirsch. ⁓

That, so she walks into the woman hung, that's Bev Marsh. Bev Marsh's mother. They say her name, Afreida, something like that. She has like a cool, weird name, like Elphreida or something. That is Bev Marsh. And she, in the IT 1990 movie that we saw, that little girl didn't have reddish hair at all. She had like a braid and then as the adult, remember we were like, they look so much alike. So that's.

Jeff Kadlic (26:50)
No.

Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (27:14)
The Bev Marsh character, she plays Bev Marsh in the movies, in the new movies, the young Bev Marsh she plays in the new movie. ⁓ This is just a side note. She is in a series that's on Peacock right now called All Her Fault. It is so freaking good. Like I miss it. It's so good. Sarah Snook is in it. Sarah Snook was in Succession.

Jeff Kadlic (27:36)
okay.

Mmm.

Jacqueline Hanzl (27:43)
Anyway, this actress is amazing, Sophia Lilis. So I assume she'll be maybe in season two then? Again, that was like another question I had.

Jeff Kadlic (27:53)
it seems like they're leaving, I mean as most shows do, they're leaving it open-ended. ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (27:58)
Right, and people

thought that Lily Bainbridge was somehow related to Bev Marsh, but I don't think she is. Like, again, just from some things I read. I'm assuming too, yeah. I'm assuming maybe the book will help me understand some stuff. Although they're not completely, there's a lot of, there are, I guess, things that are connected and true

Jeff Kadlic (28:08)
Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

Right.

Jacqueline Hanzl (28:25)
Dick Halloran is the character, the dude from The Shining. I don't know why London was mentioned, I mean, that line, how hard, know, have something like.

Jeff Kadlic (28:28)
Yeah, yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (28:35)
I don't remember what, ⁓ how bad can it be or so hard could be or how, whatever. He's the, forgot which adjective he uses, but yeah. there's so many like layers and stuff to this that I'm like,

Jeff Kadlic (28:36)
It's a hotel, how hard could it be? Yeah.

Yeah, there's

a definitely have a lot of questions with the ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (28:53)
Yeah, and obviously

Marge is Richie Tozier's mama. And...

Jeff Kadlic (28:58)
Yup.

Jacqueline Hanzl (29:02)
Richie Tozier in the 1990 movie, as we said, is played by Seth Green. ⁓ But Richie Tozier in the ⁓ new IT movies, which we saw his picture, because he played, that actor's from Stranger Things, ⁓ who played Richie Tozier in the newer movies, movie. I don't know which one he was in. Yeah, he's the, I'm bad. I only watched the first season of Stranger Things, so.

Jeff Kadlic (29:17)
Yeah.

really? I'll have to look that up.

Okay ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (29:32)
I believe it's him.

I forgot his name. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (29:38)
I even know their names, I just know what the actors look like. know one, ⁓ Finn Wolfhard is ⁓ one of them, but I don't. That's Finn Wolfhard. yeah, he was in that, I guess, right. ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (29:38)
Yeah.

He's the one who who I think like the one who loves Eleven like that's

Yeah.

Yeah, so I still feel like I haven't heard there's gonna be a season two. I can't imagine there won't be, but maybe it's the whole thing with HBO maybe being bought, like who knows?

Jeff Kadlic (30:07)
What do you think was going on there in that scene during the epilogue?

Jacqueline Hanzl (30:15)
with.

Jeff Kadlic (30:15)
with

the soldier like violently like shrugging his wife off of him.

Jacqueline Hanzl (30:20)
No, no, no, no. So you're getting the guy on the ground who's crying and then the girl, that's Bev Marsh, who's crying on his shoulder. That's either her father, that's remember how abusive Bev, he's physical with her. So what's interesting is I...

Jeff Kadlic (30:26)
Yeah.

Okay.

⁓ yeah.

Okay.

Jacqueline Hanzl (30:43)
In the IT 1990, that was her dad. In the book, or I'm not sure actually Bev Marsh has shown up in the book. I'm only again on page like 300 something and there's a thousand pages. She's shown up in the book. I thought I read somewhere in the book. It might be stepfather, but I'm not sure. But that is the father. That's a father figure. That guy who pushes her back. Cause we know he's physical with her. And then, you know.

Jeff Kadlic (30:45)
Yeah.

Mmm.

Okay. Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (31:12)
because she, yeah. So I think you need to read it as well so we can chat about that.

Jeff Kadlic (31:14)
Okay.

I guess so, yeah. guess I'm gonna,

the lore is deep here with this world.

Jacqueline Hanzl (31:24)
Yes!

And like I'm trying, you know, it's hard because it's such a big huge book, but I ended up buying it, I think I told you, because I got it from the library and like I'm not gonna finish this in two weeks. ⁓ But I also don't want to rush it. Like there's just so much in there. It's like you really have to take it in. It's not like, I can fly through this, you know, it's not, I don't want to fly through it, you know, it's so much detail.

Jeff Kadlic (31:40)
Yeah.

Sure.

Yeah, well sometimes

when you read good book, you want to enjoy it, you want to take your time with it so that you don't finish it so quickly. Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (31:59)
Yeah, I know and then you miss it. Yeah,

yeah. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (32:04)
⁓

I had one other thing here that was like ⁓ that line was pretty like like super he had a couple Pennywise had a couple of creepy things in this but that line when he's in the beginning when he's on the phone with Leroy and and he said the dark meat tastes twice as sweet I was like ⁓ wow

Jacqueline Hanzl (32:21)
Leroy.

Ooh. Ew. I don't even remember

that! my god, that's horrible. god. Ugh.

Jeff Kadlic (32:32)
Yeah, it's terrible.

So it's because you know that and the show has done that a couple of times. You know, ⁓ more than a few times with some stuff that's like.

Jacqueline Hanzl (32:40)
Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (32:47)
⁓ a little intense which is which is cool i mean ⁓ i know i mentioned a bunch like in the earlier episodes where i was kind of struggling with like what tone the show was going to take but i mean ultimately i'm definitely a fan of the of the season and the and the and the show in general but yeah there was there was a

Jacqueline Hanzl (33:01)
Yes. Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, I wonder too.

Jeff Kadlic (33:13)
There was a creepy thing too, right? When he was doing the one-penny-wise, he doing the one-man-band thing and he had the forearm and the hand.

Jacqueline Hanzl (33:19)
Oh my God, the arm ripped apart. I remember when I saw that for the second time, I was like,

I'm just staring at this, I know it's fake. Like that's all I kept thinking. I was like, it's fake, it's fake. That was disgusting. Oh, and using the principle of like a puppet. I hate stuff like, oh, I can't, I can't. But just, I had to say getting back to him saying like that racial comment, like the dark meat tastes, whatever, it's sweet or whatever. It's all, I mean.

Jeff Kadlic (33:25)
Yeah, that's pretty gruesome. Yeah. Yeah.

⁓ yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that was creepy.

Jacqueline Hanzl (33:49)
Wonder II again, that's just like, getting it Leroy, like, grr, like, you know, cause he liked to get you where it hurt, you know, your fears and your triggers and your, ooh, all that.

Jeff Kadlic (33:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah,

I'm gonna go with that. Yeah, because I guess as characters go, mean, Leroy is pretty much like the most high strung character in the show. Well, I mean, everybody kind of is, but he has a temper. yeah, Ronnie too. Yeah, she's, it was a mess with her.

Jacqueline Hanzl (34:15)
Ronnie was the most...

She

always looked like she was either crying or mad. Anyway, I'd be too though. Anyway. Yeah. I loved her dad. Like for the guy being accused of these murders, he had such a, to me he had like a sweet face. ⁓

Jeff Kadlic (34:25)
Yeah. Yeah, she... Yeah.

Yeah, you...

You

think they made that reference to Rosa Parks? Had to be, right? When at the end, when she's like, when you get there, Rosa's friends will know what to do.

Jacqueline Hanzl (34:51)
⁓ I thought it was Roses, Rose, yeah, but I thought they said Roses friends because Rose is the Native American woman.

Jeff Kadlic (34:52)
Yeah.

Rosa R.O.

Now in the subtitles it was R-O-S-A.

Jacqueline Hanzl (35:05)
⁓ interesting. Okay.

Jeff Kadlic (35:10)
⁓ I don't know what... I'm forgetting what year actually. Were we in 1962?

Jacqueline Hanzl (35:11)
I'd have to look back.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (35:18)
man, I want that milk truck that they stole. That thing was great. And I also want that VW van.

Jacqueline Hanzl (35:20)
yeah.

Yes, I thought about that when they were driving the van. I'm like, that van is so cool too. I can't handle that good on ice though, I'm thinking.

Jeff Kadlic (35:28)
I was like, man.

Probably

not, but what a cool van

Jacqueline Hanzl (35:37)
That is cool.

I was looking up 1962 and Rosa Parks, 1962 she continued her civil rights activism. And also there was a radio interview at that time. I don't know. So maybe they were talking about her. It's funny, cause I put the subtitles on too and I didn't see that part. I mean, I didn't. It was 1955 was her arrest. That's what it said. But yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (35:56)
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what year she was, um, or... Oh, okay. So, yeah, she didn't die

until much later. I don't think.

Jacqueline Hanzl (36:07)
It could have been her.

Yeah, they could have been referencing her. That's cool. Didn't, maybe that was, cause didn't Charlotte have some sort of connection? Like we didn't know who the person was that helped her. That was down, that was down, yeah. But then.

Jeff Kadlic (36:19)
Towns Health.

Yeah, they never said, we never got like explicit information about who she was, you know, in connection with and who was going to help dad.

Jacqueline Hanzl (36:35)
the plan for him to go to

Jeff Kadlic (36:36)
So yeah, it's... man, there's also like...

I where on the lake, but when Marge actually talks about it in the epilogue when they're up in the clubhouse and saying like, he... Yeah, yeah, cause he was, chattering on about a lot of stuff there, you know, that I was like, okay, so he's...

Jacqueline Hanzl (36:55)
about him with time? Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (37:09)
You know saying that he can't be trapped but he is trapped here and It's seen as one of the few instances in the show where it seemed like Pennywise was Displaying like frustration You know

Jacqueline Hanzl (37:26)
Mm-hmm.

Jeff Kadlic (37:29)
⁓ which I thought was interesting, but...

Jacqueline Hanzl (37:32)
because he

is kind of doomed to this, like he...

can't be fun. You're doing a cycle. I don't know. Like he has to eat these people. Maybe it's tiring.

Jeff Kadlic (37:41)
Yeah.

Yeah, I guess.

I mean...

Yeah, because presumably, right, so when he has that deconstruction and disappears, that he's just, it goes into whatever that, they called it something in the show, but his hibernation, for lack of a better term, you know, until... ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (38:01)
Right, yes.

And

then when he said, it's my death, but maybe it's my birth, like, very interesting. Yeah.

Jeff Kadlic (38:09)
Yeah, right. Right.

Yeah.

Jacqueline Hanzl (38:16)
Mm-hmm.

Good stuff.

Jeff Kadlic (38:18)
Was great, it was a great finale Sometimes I feel like some of these seasons when they, it obviously depends, know, like eight episodes is like a little light, but this one I didn't. I was, well, I didn't feel like I was like cheated out of, you know, the story arc or, you know, there was a lot of time spent with all the characters and.

Jacqueline Hanzl (38:28)
Yeah. No, yeah.

No, yeah, it's not.

Jeff Kadlic (38:44)
It was great, I hope they do another season. I I hadn't really thought about the whatever acquisition or what is gonna happen with HBO and all that. I'm not on top of the latest with that stuff.

Jacqueline Hanzl (38:48)
they will.

I mean, I

haven't paid attention, but I'm just so curious as to why they haven't announced a season two because either way, and I can't imagine it's not gonna be, they're setting it up that there's gonna be a season two and it was one of their highest rated shows and so, yeah. Yeah, so I'd be shocked. Somewhere, it'll be somewhere.

Jeff Kadlic (39:09)
Yeah.

Yeah, you were saying that, it was really successful.

Well.

Hopefully it won't be like, you know, three years or something.

Jacqueline Hanzl (39:28)
God, no, thank you.

Jeff Kadlic (39:29)
You know, HBO has done that with some shows though, right? They've gone like long periods of time. I think they did that with, ⁓ that was like, the Sopranos was like notorious about that. ⁓

Jacqueline Hanzl (39:34)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we talked about, I told you about euphoria. It's like euphoria. It's like, I don't know how many years later they're going to be, to be, they're going have to be like in their thirties. They were supposed to be high school kids.

Jeff Kadlic (39:46)
Yeah.

wow, yeah, what was the other one too? ⁓ which neither of us watched Game of Thrones. I think they went on really long periods of time between some seasons. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, was definitely a fun watch and yeah, I'll have to...

Jacqueline Hanzl (40:02)
There's also writer strikes. I don't know. We'll see.

All right. Okay.

Yes.

If they do a season two, we'll have to talk about it. Yeah, it was good. All right, everyone, thanks for listening, thanks for watching. And you can find us at homebodiesonly.com, ⁓ also on YouTube and on all audio podcast platforms. Bye. Bye.

Jeff Kadlic (40:18)
I'm totally in. Yeah. I'm in. I loved it. It was a great watch.

Nice. Catch you later.