Recapping 20 years of losses and lessons in Dubai with Paul and Steven

What can missing out on millions in real estate teach you about making them?

Before the 2008 crash, Paul owned 15 off plan properties across Dubai. He lost 14 of them after the financial crisis, left with just one apartment by the end of 2009. That apartment, a Tiara Residence unit he’d bought for AED 2.3M, had been offered to him at AED 5.5M in May 2008. He turned it down. By November 2011, he sold it for AED 1.9M. Today, that same unit would cost you AED 5 to 5.5M.

Paul and Steven explain why this moment mirrors every previous crisis and why the real mistake isn’t buying during uncertainty, it’s buying the wrong property.

The haus & haus Investment Playbook: https://www.hausandhaus.com/dubai-real-estate-investment-playbook/

Follow us on social📱:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hausandhaus/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/hausandhaus/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCwIfy-QwCfMZG4DZNVrtJg

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@hausandhaus

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/hausandhaus

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hello, this is the Paul and Stephen podcast or the Stephen and Paul podcast. Whichever way you see it, we don't really mind. Me and Stephen haven't done one for a while, so this one could be quite interesting. We're going to reminisce a bit on when we first moved here, which was uh when I moved here in 2005. I started work at Dubai Luxury Homes on September the 1st, 2005. And unless something has changed, Stephen Leckie moved to Dubai in 2003 and he started at Dubai Luxury Homes in July 2005. So we had the pleasure of working together for five years from 2005 to 2010. And now we're working together again. I'm going to uh pass over to Stephen. How how long have we been working together this? We've been working together September, so it would be 23 years on and off. No, no, 21 or 22. It's a long time.

SPEAKER_01 0:46

And this time it's been we're just coming up to five years together. This yes, so so we did five years before.

SPEAKER_00 0:51

We did yeah, we did, didn't we?

SPEAKER_01 0:52

And now we're doing five years. Doing longer. Maybe we can't maybe that's it. Five years. No, I don't think so. I think we'd be alright. You sure? I hope so.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

I don't know. Maybe we've got expiry date. We'll just think we' that we're actually it's it's it's actually gone more to plan this time. Didn't really go to plan last time, did it? Because we because the world the well, if if we want to reminis back, the uh if you remember, Stephen, the summer of 08. I remember thinking this is the best place in the world. I'm making loads of money, everything's great, kids are happy, family's happy, everyone's really, really happy. And then that was the summer of 2008, and then September the 15th, when Lehman Brothers went bankrupt, by the beginning of 2009, obviously we thought very, very differently. My experience was I I I have said this in a previous podcast, but that was many, many podcasts ago, and probably five five years ago. But I just to give you an idea of what happened in the crash, and we're touching on it briefly, because apparently some people have an interest in it. So in the summer of 2008, I was part of 15 off-plan properties. By the summer of 09. You mean you weren't parts, you owned. No, I was part of, so I was making the payments on the off-plan properties. Like things like Q point. In fact, of the 15 properties that I owned or was part of, I had one which I paid cash for, which was Tiara Residence, which is the only one I managed not to lose. But to give you an idea, I bought that in March 2007 for 2.3 million. I was offered 5.5 million. This is a one-bed, 1,300 square feet, but very nice. Tiara is still very nice. I paid 2.3 March 2007. I was offered 5.5 in May 2008. I said no, not because I was being greedy. At the time things were going very well, and I thought, you know what, that'd be nice for the family to use. It's got a great gym, it's gonna have a hotel, it's gonna have a bar, it's got a private beach. Anyway, I didn't sell it. And then I eventually sold it in November 2011, which wasn't a very good time to be in Dubai, for 1.9 million. So that's the difference. What would that be worth today? About 5.5 million. No way. Incredibly, they sold a di was it my unit was in Diamond, which is the best, the best, it actually is the best, uh, the best block to be in, right at the very end. They've sold one recently and it was 5.5. So I was offered in May 2008, 18 years ago, the same price as what they're selling today. That shows how ridiculous prices got back then. Yes. Because it was completely artificial and mental, but we all fell for it and we gone.

SPEAKER_01 3:17

So what happened between 2010 or 2009 and 2019, for instance? Those 10 years. Because some of it you weren't here. Correct. And some of it I wasn't here. Correct. I left as well. For about nine months as far as fast. Yes. I thought I don't want to be in Dubai anymore, and I went back to the UK. But after about three months, I came back again.

SPEAKER_00 3:39

Yeah, I think I think I think we similar thing because I actually in 2012 I went back into DIFC. My friend offered me a job. Financial centre. Financial centre, broken. Then my friend who was in New York, Alex, offered me, uh, said to come over and work for us. And I wasn't overly enamoured with Dubai at the time, so I went over to New York. I moved the family back to London to Shoreditch, lasted three months in New York, didn't like it, moved back to London, put the kids into a local school, thought everything was great. The kids then, rather than like after they went to Jess Ranches, after school at Jess Ranches, you play football, you play rugby, or you go to the shopping mall, or you go to the cinema. In London, they would do very different things, and they'd come home having done different things, which are very noticeable. So we lasted less than one year in London and moved back to Dubai, got the kids back into Jess Ranches, and even the kids say today, the boys such so they're 27 and 30, even the boys say today that that they did one school year in London. The amount they learned, like Henry the first week, he couldn't believe what some of the pupils said to the teachers, the back chat, the swearing, like you just don't get that in Dubai. And it was like, wow, but they learned, they was like, and because they was into their football rugby and everything else, they got in with like the cool kids, so they they was okay. But we did one year then and then moved back. And the reason we could got back into Jess Ranches, this is this is quite a story. We paid a debenture originally, so when they give you debenture back, that's it. They hadn't given us back our debentures. So when we came back to Dubai, we said, Oh, look, you know, you've got to take the kids back, and they said, Yeah, actually, we do have to because we've still got your dementia money. So the kids got back into Jess Ranches, back into the rugby team, back into the football team, and everything was happy.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

It's like it never happened, yeah. And five years, what's what's happened over the last five years in the market?

SPEAKER_00 5:26

And for you personally. Um I think I think I would like to hear your story more than mine because yours is probably more interesting because you've had an incredible five years. Well, we we I came back February 21. So what happened with me was I was in London, it was COVID. I just got this sense that something was happening in Dubai or something was gonna happen. I flew over in December 2020, had lots of meetings, met up with Simon, met up with James, um, and they offered me a job. So I flew over here February 21, started work at House and House. I thought I'd give it three months to see how it goes, five years later. Um, the market started getting busy in 21. I think the the the sort of the semi-game changer for us, because this is the way we always used to work, was we found a master community which was amazingly sellable, which we loved, we loved everything about it, the developer, the the product, which was Peninsula, and from October the 1st, 2021, it was like we was off to the races, and really until this problem, this conflict, it didn't stop, which was actually too long, it was actually over five years. So we did need the slowdown, it's been forced on us. We don't really like it, but actually, when we come out of it, I think we've both agreed on this, we're gonna have a better market, it's gonna be more compact, it's gonna be stronger, a lot of the poor agents will have left, the developers launching every week's gonna have stopped, and we're gonna get some get get a proper, sort of strong, resilient market back.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, I mean th th th in a simple simple um statement, I know, but oversimplifying the whole thing. But if you look at what happened after 2008, after 2014 and after 2026, hopefully is that everybody looked at the fundamentals. They got back to the fundamentals. They it wasn't all about oh you know, build it and they will come as we did in 2008 and flipping, buying, selling, etcetera. People are looking at property now in a much more analytical way. It's not everything anything you buy today will not go up in value. And that's that's the big difference that's we're going to see in the market going forward. And I think also developers are gonna have to take that on board, and they're gonna have to be start building, redesigning, um, upgrading, uh doing a much better job. So actually, what I think we're gonna see is is a a good good coming out of bad, if you know what I mean. I'm not saying this is a particularly bad situation, it's not good for a lot of people, but it's not necessarily anything like as bad as COVID was or 2080, etc. Yeah. This is a a correction, a long-term, a long-time coming correction. Yes. This is a correction that we we were forecasting, I don't know, for the last two years. I've been saying to my team, this will not last. And now what we're going through right now, it will not last. But it we will come out stronger, and I'm convinced of that because the fundamentals of Dubai, Abu Dhabi, the UAE have not changed. In fact, we've seen some amazing things come from the c from the government over the last uh three months. Where I I, for one, I mean, I always say this never underestimate the UAE. And my God, I underestimated what they were capable of doing.

SPEAKER_00 8:44

Do you know to me, and tell me if you agree, that the big fundamental difference, the shift was I obviously got we we all were, we were all impacted by the crash in 2008. I you know, and there was half the people here were saying that's it, that's the end of Dubai. Now, obviously it wasn't. Um you had 2013 to 2015. Now, also you had, which was quite now you look back, it is actually quite surprising that sort of the panic setting during COVID, mainly mainly when they let the Emirates people with the Emirates pilots go, it was like, oh, this is the end of Dubai. So even just a few years ago, there's people questioning the future of Dubai. Now you look at this, what's happened, which is actually the worst thing in our experience.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

We're referring to the conflict with Iran and USA.

SPEAKER_00 9:26

So you imagine this is the shift, this is the the big difference with Dubai now. We've got missiles coming over, or they were coming over, we're not quite sure what they're doing. But anyway, now is anyone saying this is the end of Dubai? It's finished. Because I remember after the crash in Hawaii.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Some people are saying it. Some people are saying it. Right. To me, nobody I know is saying it, but there are people, comments on my channel and my etc. who are saying great things.

SPEAKER_00 9:48

Let's make a note of them so we can go back to them in one or two years and say to them that was probably a mistake.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

But these are the same people who probably didn't buy in 2005, 2012, etc.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

They've never bought I uh the amount of the amount of people to me now compared to any at any other stage are just saying, yeah, look, it's not a good situation, but the UAEs, you know, then they're gonna be okay. And we don't want to say it, but um they're they're talking they're talking about this is gonna benefit Dubai. You know, in the medium to long term, it's UAE, the whole UAE is gonna benefit. You know, and it's just that difference and that confidence, you know, we know the amount of money, we don't know the exact amount, but the amount of money that's coming to the UAE this year for AI, for data centres, for for finance, for hedge funds. I mean, it's incredible. More money is coming this year, and the conflict's been going on since February than any other year in the history of the UAE. So people around the world still have quite a lot of confidence in Dubai because that there's been no flight of money going elsewhere. There's no been no big cash withdrawals, which there could have been before. That hasn't happened. Just last week, um, who's it, JP Morgan have taken the UAE off the emerging market uh countries, which is, you know, they've gone from an emerging market to developing, which is a massive shift because they're saying that the UAE is too wealthy to be an emerging market anymore. We agree. Incredible. Now, Stephen, what have you been doing in the last five years? Because when we started working together again at House and House, I'm not sure when I know you joined in 21, was it the summer of 21? I'll explain that. Okay. But yeah, I know you've been doing a little bit of you're on you're on uh like you're on TV every every now and then or videos or something. What's all that about?

SPEAKER_01 11:35

So when you returned to Dubai in February 2021, correct. You continually phone me up, like on a sometimes on a daily basis, but you were calling me as well. No, it wasn't one way. Definitely every week I would get a call from Paul saying, What do you think about this? Have you got a brochure for no idea? Have you got a brochure for this? I did do that. Have you got do you know who I should call about this? I was terrible.

SPEAKER_00 11:59

Um I I asked a thousand questions, James.

SPEAKER_01 12:01

Yes, and every time you would end the conversation with Of course, you know you're going to come and work for House and House soon anyway. So, you know, whatever you tell me is fine. And as it happens, in July 2021, I came back. Yeah. So well, I didn't c yes I did, because I worked at House and House, of course, before. And I'd left after a very short period of time. But then I came back in, yes, and I really haven't looked back. So that was July.

SPEAKER_00 12:28

So literally you you were just settling in, and then we got the peninsula coming up. Yes, and then you got said we don't we people aren't going to understand us, but you you imagine because you got the PDF through from your friend in London, if you remember. Yes. And we all got very excited, and we just knew we had something special, and then for the next what two years, that was the main thing we were selling. Yes. For two years, literally. Yes. Amazing.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

But that is 20 20 21, 22, 23 wasn't weren't the best years. 24, 25 have been so immense.

SPEAKER_00 13:01

So tell me tell me how your social media has changed in the last two years. So because you do a lot. I mean I I'm I'm uh genuinely impressed with your energy, how you have the energy to do it all. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

Well you do do it. It's it's not just energy, it's money as well. Yeah, I know, but it's not for free, it's spending money to make money. Yes, so I started I bumped into some people pulling it up at a Aldar launch in the uh what's the Coca-Cola Arena who were uh gurus in social media, they've been doing it for twenty odd years or something. And they said, I think I know who you are, you know, I've heard about you, I think you should be very good on social media. And I said, Well, how much is this gonna cost? Because obviously it was gonna cost something, and they told me and I went, you know, swallowed. And um I thought, okay, I'll give this a try. We'll see how it is. It's something I've thought about doing for some time. A couple of people I know very well have had a lot of success out of it. So yeah, I got on social media probably no more than probably just over two years ago. And um yes, it's changed the way that I do business.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yes, it certainly has. So in case anyone else is wondering, because we were wondering originally, but now we understand it, it was like when Stephen's talking on social media, whether it's Instagram or LinkedIn or whatever. What's this what's this pull? Why why are you getting so many inquiries and so many leads? And we know why. It's because Stephen Leckie is the only person in Dubai with grey hair and glasses, who's been here 23 years, who talks sense and knows what he's talking about, and that is very attractive to a buyer who just wants some normality, not this big hurrah. So, oh, I can actually have a conversation with this person, I can relate to him, and he's been there a long time, and it's free.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Interestingly, though, the thing about social media that I've discovered is you cannot appeal to everyone. So uh the people that I deal with are the people that want to deal with me.

SPEAKER_00 15:05

We're gonna say now what are the differences between buying real estate now and back when we were doing it in 2005? For instance, back then, there was no Dubai Land Department. Back then There was a Dubai Land Department. Okay, sorry, there was no like DLD laws and the rear regulations in 2005. Yeah, but everybody ignored it. Okay, I thought they came out in 2007, 2008.

SPEAKER_01 15:27

2007 was when Escrow account came along. Right, what about the REARE REARA? Rearer came in in 2007 as well. Right. So basically, so this is the difference. I mean, we you and I were some of the first people in Dubai to get our Rearer licence. Do you know what number you were? Do you remember what number you were? It was quite low, wasn't it? We I well the first 2,000 were only for the locals. For people who had been in Dubai. Well, locals, emiratists. They were the only people that could be zero to two thousand. We were, I think I was around two thousand eight hundred. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:03

But this is probably about that number as well. I don't think people are gonna believe what I'm about to say, because this is the difference. You've probably forgotten this. So back no, no, no, but it's true, right? So a developer then in Sports City, let's say you're Sports City, right? They they could buy a plot. Now, what they'd actually be doing was we know at the time they'd be putting down 10% on that plot of land. Yes. Then they'd sort of in their heads they owned it. Yes. Then they'd produce this glossy brochure. There wasn't all these emails and WhatsApp. WhatsApp didn't exist then. Imagine that people who are using WhatsApp, it didn't exist then. So we actually used to have phone conversations. I know WhatsApp or WhatsApp, sorry. So they so literally they could put down 10% on the land, produce a glossy brochure, and just say, oh, look, you should buy this. This all looks really nice with nice facilities, charge 800 dirhams per square foot. There was no escrow account, so any payments made went direct to the developer's corporate account, so they could spend that money as they pleased. When you did a transfer, you go to the developer's office, there was no 4% transfer fee. When they did introduce it, it actually used to be 2%. What other differences?

SPEAKER_01 17:07

I mean, I remember Do you remember that some of the launch parts?

SPEAKER_00 17:10

I remember sending brochures and DVDs by courier to the client so they could understand the development. If if the developer, if the developer did do a DVD, because at the time even they was a bit, woo, look, they've got a DVD for this development. It was literally on a on a paper brochure. It was called a C D ROM, not a DVD. A C D ROM. Exactly. ZX81, ZX Spectrum, Commodore 64. Now you're showing off. I know I know going back to the 90s now. There was no, you know, there's all these differences. There was no Google Maps, there was no GPS. You know, we used to go to Jameera Village, there was no road signs, you go to JLT.

SPEAKER_01 17:47

There were no lights. If you missed your cluster. There were no street lights.

SPEAKER_00 17:50

If you missed your cluster going to JBC, you had to go all the way around again, and we used to hate going there.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

No, you're talking about JLT. What did I say? JVC. Oh, JLT, sorry.

SPEAKER_00 17:58

Yeah, JLT. But now that's actually much better, JLT. Yeah, it's nice. Yes, I like it. I like it too. So what other differences? Because there were some big, big, big differences back then to now.

SPEAKER_01 18:07

So many. I mean, uh the designs of the that they made very large apartments with pillars in the middle of the room and uh rooms without windows and that type of thing.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

And even dur during this like sort of not gold rush, but when the market was really busy in 2006 to 2008, like and there was this saying, build it and they will come, and we stupidly believe that. But literally, a developer could put a building up anywhere. If they did a nice brochure, they'd find someone to buy it. And it turns out that that building is like IMPZ or you know, uh in in the backwater of nowhere, it's just not a good place. So, as we know, when it did all go wrong, you know, it was particularly these developments with these particular developers that didn't really have the money, they didn't have the foresight or the depth to be able to do anything, and then we were left with all the half-built buildings.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

All true. I think the big differences for me are that the roads are now there. Yes, we're not just selling sand, and that's what we were selling before. We were selling dreams without any proof of concept.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Speed cameras have helped us stay safe as well, if if we because we can recall the driving back then. It wasn't like you think the driving's bad now, good grief. So back then you had uh younger locals and Lebanese maybe driving very, very, very fast in Land Cruises and things, and then you had other nationalities driving in small dats and sunnies and things like that who didn't know how to drive. And it was it was a bit of a what would you call it when going out onto the roads? It was just like dangerous. It was, wasn't it? It was actually like a bit crazy. When you look back, it was like just go out on the road and see what happens. And you have to if if you were if you were turning right, you'd have to look left, you'd have to look right, you'd have to look in front of you, and you'd have to look behind you. So you just didn't know what the other cars were doing.

SPEAKER_01 19:52

Do you not do that doing that now? What?

SPEAKER_00 19:54

When you're turning right, you don't look around.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

I look left when I turn right.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

It's it's really interesting because you never know what you're gonna get.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

Oh dear, yes. That's one of the things that we've got to do.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

So, anyway, Stephen, Stephen, so so we've so basically what we're saying is that Dubai has got a history now. When we came here, Dubai didn't really have a history, had a couple of years. Now it's got what 25 years? We've experienced quite a lot of it. Let's let's talk about the situation now. What situation? So we're in this situation which no we are, there was this conflict going on. You get to hear certain things, is everybody believes what they want to believe, everybody's got their own opinion. I believe we share this opinion, but I'll just give mine this is my honest opinion on what's going on, and it could be completely wrong, so I'm just gonna have that little bit in there. I think because of everything that's going on in the world, and I think because of the economic impact, which hasn't started yet, which we're gonna see towards the end of the year, on the rest of the world. One of the reasons, or the main reasons that Dubai stayed busy for five years was because the rest of the world kept making mistakes, so it kept it busy, whether it's elections, immigration, crime, you you name it, people wanting to keep coming here and buying property. Now that's sort of stopped. Now, unfortunately, the economic impact of the closure of the Strait of Famous is gonna have a much, much bigger economic impact on the rest of the world than the UAE. So I think that's gonna make the UAE become quite popular again quite quickly. We've got to get over this, obviously, because there's gonna be people who are concerned, they're gonna know I'm gonna wait, and we get that. There's other people who are seeing this as a massive buy-in opportunity because they're paying 20% less than what they were three or four months ago. So everyone's got their own opinion. But we do genuinely believe that Dubai is gonna or UAE is gonna come out of this stronger and better, Stephen.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

I think you need to say that again because saying 20% below is uh less than you would have done before it's not entirely true. Ten to twenty percent.

SPEAKER_00 21:48

Uh look, I mean, basically, we know in certain areas they're hardly dropping prices. In some areas, if you want to sell, you'll get OP. But for instance, I I'll give an example. Let's use Dubai Hills as an example. For example, if you bought a property there off plan in the last twelve months, you were paying between two thousand five hundred to two thousand eight hundred a square foot. We know that they're selling now for around nineteen hundred to two thousand, the people who've got to sell. It's actually more than twenty per cent. But I would if you had to But there's not very many people like that, are there? Well, I'm seeing that of I'm saying I'm seeing that every week.

SPEAKER_01 22:20

So they're at those deals are at one or two a week.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I would say ten to twenty percent.

SPEAKER_01 22:25

There's twenty-seven thousand properties in Dubai Hills. So there's going to be a few people who are desperate. I wouldn't say there's a deluge of it. There's not a flood of desperate sellers in Dubai Hills estate.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

To me, when going back before this, for the like for the for the better developers who were selling at 2,000 in 2021, you know, they were selling at 2,500, you know, last year, whatever. I think the mistake was made when people certain developers, we won't talk about names. I thought the price, if you can have a price, was 2,500 to 2800. That was about the price. It was below 3,000. Then some developers started launching at 3,000 and just above. I thought that I'm not quite sure about that, that that sort of price. So I think that's been corrected straight away. You know, that the the price, you know, that price is 2,500 and the 2500 price before. And we're talking particularly about apartments here. You know, Villas and Townhouse is a different story. You know, there were some overpriced which have been readjusted, they have had a correction. So I'd say the 10 to 20%, just to clarify, so everybody's happy, that's more on the off-plan resale property where somebody's bought someone which can be ready in two or three years, they think they've paid too much and they just want out. So I'm not saying that across the board. But if someone did ask me, Paul, what how much the price has dropped, I say, look, it's different, it depends where you look, it depends what community, it depends what area, but it's about 10 or 20%. That's what I'd say.

SPEAKER_01 23:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

If you want to say something different, please say now, Stephen. Would you agree with that?

SPEAKER_01 23:58

I have seen properties that which are being sold for as much as 20% below, but I don't think there's very many. No, I wouldn't want people phoning me up and saying, Stephen, I want to buy five properties at less than twenty per cent, because I don't think I'd find five properties that I would recommend buying. That's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 24:17

We agree on this. Good. The stuff that's dropped 20% isn't the most desirable. I wouldn't have sold it before at that price, and I wouldn't sell it today at that price. Just so and just too, what we're getting at the moment is that we're getting a lot of um new clients who've bought property with other agents and obviously regretted it or realised that they've bought wrong, and then they're coming to us to resell their property, which unfortunately we're gonna have a real problem reselling because we wouldn't have sold it in the first place. Just for those people who've been unfortunate enough to do that, just so you know, the agent that sold you that property should be reselling it for you.

SPEAKER_01 24:57

Because that agent is probably not something he's even interested in doing.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

No, maybe that agent isn't here anymore.

SPEAKER_01 25:03

He was a he was he was selling, yeah, he didn't have your best interests at the beginning. He's not gonna have your best interests now, is he? No. Which uh which we keep seeing all the time. Yes, and that we saw that in a good market, and we're definitely that's where we see it in in the market that we have at the moment, that's where you really recognise the properties that have been bought badly. It's so important now. Far more important than it ever has been to buy right now.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

Yes. Okay. Thank you, Stephen. I thought uh because we're in slightly difficult times and we've never done it before, and we've got quite a lot of experience, but maybe we should do some shout-outs to a few of the developer agents that we work with who have stayed through the troubles, who are very supportive, who want to help us. Um, I'm gonna name a few, and you can name a few. Go on then. Just so you think of right. We've obviously got Judy from Ema, Judy from Emo, who we both know very well. That is our EMAR developer.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

She worked for a terrible developer, yes. Now she works for a while. Now she works for an amazing one.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yes. Then at Dubai Holding, we have Harris. Yes. We have the main man Mohammed. Yes. We have Hessa, we have Hind. We really like Nikhil Marash. We've got a good group of people and we all interact with a lot of them.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

True.

SPEAKER_00 26:17

We've got the two girls at Expo, Sarah and Ada. Yes. Let's give a shout out to Kareem and Peter as well. Absolutely. We've got Johnny at Select, is always extremely helpful. True. Always gets back to you. Always gets back to you. We've got Eva at Ellington. Yes. We deal with Eva quite a lot. Always a pleasure to deal with Eva. Any more, Stephen?

SPEAKER_01 26:38

Oh, Enrique. Enrique and um Imad from Avenue.

SPEAKER_00 26:43

Yes. Yes. Two good guys.

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Yes, they always they're very good at responding.

SPEAKER_00 26:47

There should be somebody you should be mentioning, Stephen. Lesreen?

SPEAKER_01 26:51

No, there was someone you've missed. Really? Who's that?

SPEAKER_00 26:54

Who you've done a lot of deals with. Oh dear. A lot of deals.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

Who's that? Oliver Essex from uh Yes, Oliver Essex from Seoul Properties.

SPEAKER_00 27:04

Seul properties and I've actually bought two properties from Stephen and his team particularly have uh took a liking to a development Sol Levante and they sold a lot of property there with uh And Sol Lux. And Sol Lux with an English guy called Oliver Essex, who's who's uh one of the good guys who likes coming into the office. We love we we love Ollie. Hello Ollie. We've also got home. Well, first of all, I met Khalid first, who's got me to the uh the Royal Atlantis on the Saturday night, which I didn't understand what they were doing, and it turns out that was the launch of their first project. Since then we've done a lot of work with them. So Sir Sergey and and Khalid and Mahmood, who you know from uh a few years ago. Yes. But we're yeah, I mean we've got a brilliant relationship with those.

SPEAKER_01 27:44

Just done a podcast with them last week, I think. I saw that, Stephen. It's coming out, I think, next week. Yes. Maybe no, me this week I think it's coming out on Wednesday. Watch this space. So yeah, listen. Stephenlecky.com. Wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

And uh we just want to say thank you very, very much for all the positive feedback we've got. Um any comments, uh anything you'd like to say, uh good or bad, we really don't mind. We prefer good ones. Uh but keep keep it coming, keep the questions coming. We're here to answer any questions we can help with. Um but thank you for listening. No, no. I I I I quite like the criticism.

SPEAKER_01 28:17

I like That's what I just said, good and bad. Yeah, we like the criticism. Yeah, we do, yeah. We like that. We like people to buy things wrong with it. Which is not difficult. It's to uh make ourselves better, definitely. So always looking to improve. Yes, and um lots of comments, please. Yes, lots of comments, please. Yes. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for asking us to come back.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

Yeah, thank you, thank you amazingly. Thank you. It's been amazing and emotional. Thank you, Stephen. Always.