68 | Your Clothes Can Say What You Mean Before You Do with Kate Kravchenko

Your closet might be the loudest story you’re telling, even when you don’t say a word. I’m sitting down with my fashion bestie and trusted truth-teller, Ikaterina “Kate” Kravchenko of  Kravchenko Styling, to unpack why getting dressed can feel weirdly emotional and why a closet cleanout can bring up memories, guilt, and identity all at once. We get into the pieces we keep because they mattered, and the pieces we keep because they cost money, plus the mindset shift that hits like a lightning bolt: everything in your home used to be money. 

Kate shares her journey from retail and sustainable fashion into personal styling, including what layoffs taught her about the illusion of “safe” jobs and how survival mode can shape every decision. We talk about building a wardrobe with structure using her style DNA framework, balancing foundation basics with statement and dopamine dressing pieces, and why women’s bodies and lives change in seasons, not straight lines. 

Then we go full strategy: color analysis, dressing for the message you want to send, and why there’s no “bad outfit,” only an outfit that doesn’t match your goal. Kate also explains why real style transformation isn’t one shopping trip, it’s a process that often mirrors inner work like therapy, confidence building, and learning what you actually want. 

If you’ve been craving a more intentional wardrobe, sustainable style choices, and a calmer relationship with getting dressed, hit play, subscribe, and share this with a friend who’s in a transition. After you listen, leave a review and tell us what style question you want answered next.

Transcript

Intro and Meet Kate

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Hey friends, welcome to Woman Owned Wallet, the podcast. I'm your host, Amanda Dare, a serial entrepreneur who has already made all of the money mistakes, so you don't have to. Now I'm working on my money mindset, expanding my companies, and having open conversations with women around a subject that shouldn't be so taboo. Money. My company, Woman Owned Wallet, and I are determined to help you foster a more positive relationship with your wallet and help you create a life that makes you say, wow. Hey money makers, welcome back to another episode of Woman Owned Wallet the Podcast. I'm Amanda Dare, and I'm here with one of my favorite people. I probably text her like every other day for a million questions that have to do with styling and colors. And she just become my fashion bestie and probably like opposite aesthetic in the best way. But thank you so much to Kate for coming on to the podcast. Hi. She's so s like chic and like slick in the best. Like I don't, I don't know, I don't mean slick bad. I don't know if that is bad, but you're you're you're just so like refined. And I'm just like over here, like I said earlier, I'm like, I'm just like dressed like a toddler and she's like dressed like a lady.

SPEAKER_06 1:20

Well, I just I just love black cats, and I kind of feel like I exude some of that energy, just that I don't know, that laconic feel. Yeah. I don't know. I just love simplicity but edgy. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:35

And I mean every time I see you, your fit is so good. No. It's so good. Thank you. And then I'll introduce you and be like, yeah, it's because she's an amazing stylist. So, you know, like that's why she's so cool. I'm obsessed because I feel like maybe the first time we actually met might have been at a woman-owned Wednesday, like in person. Um, I stopped at your shop.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

Okay. I went to a women um meeting. I think it was like business and coffee or some sort of thing. You were actually there, but then I I was like, okay, I'm gonna while in town, I'm gonna stop by the store because I I Googled you before I moved to this area. I Googled you and like I was like just typing in like sustainability and clothing, whatnot, and like one of the articles came up uh with you, and I'm like, oh, she has a store. I'm gonna come in and like introduce myself. And that was the first time ever that I saw you in person.

SPEAKER_04 2:28

See, because you probably found sustainability from my last business. Yes. And not wow. Not that it's like off the table, but um, the new black, it was all bamboo dresses, and we made them ourselves. And yeah, I started that business because I was working um in the mall and fast fashion, like in management and stuff, and I was just like, I love this. I was like self-taught fashion designer before that, but I was just like, oh, I just want to do this differently and not like hurt women as we are trying to celebrate ourselves as women and what we wear. So it's cool though, because I know that you're really into sustainable styling. So, like, give us a little bit of like um, you know, what Kate does and like because I know it's multiple things, also like the digital digitizing of the closet wardrobe. She knows I'm obsessed with it, y'all. You're about to be obsessed as well. So just give us like some of the vibes, styling, you go into it.

SPEAKER_06 3:24

Yeah.

From Sustainable Retail to Styling

SPEAKER_06 3:25

So I started my business about three years ago, um, a little bit over, without you know, giving too many details, but I it's a podcast. You can give details. I'm just kidding. Do what you want. So it was started, you know, I was still working nine to five, just had a job. And, you know, I always loved fashion because previously I worked in retail and in beauty, and I always love to dress up, and things have changed over the years and my personal style and perspective on things. So I started helping women to go through their wardrobes, like just help clean them out and just see what fits, what doesn't fit. Um, I remember my very first client was a woman I met at a Galantine's event. Oh no way. Um it was, yeah, it was a different kind of Galantine's. Yeah. So I remember, gosh, I don't remember exactly then how she named it, but it was a local um waxer, a lover, like two pieces. She is amazing. Um, and she had this event for her clients, and it was like something like the funeral of your ex or something like that. Everyone was in black. I love it. Um it was like spray can stuff with she was like, you know, spray like things on the walls and like stuff like that. She was like just she went all out. You know, I love a theme. I'd be so into that. Yeah, it was like the funeral something. So yeah, everyone's like in veils and like their red roses. So it was like hilarious, but also fun with the girls, they were all the girls. And we do like videos and TikToks and Instagram stuff. So, and she um she had a lot of like great clients, so I connected with a few, and like one one of the ladies there, I told her what I do. She was like, Oh, I'd love that. Like, I need to go through my stuff, and then so she invited me. And I was just toying with the idea of starting this business, and I'm like, well, just see what happens. And I remember going over into her house and going through things. Um, and one of the things I realized then is how emotional it is for people, um, and how many like things that we hold on to through clothing. I remember clearing out several bags, I even remember she posted about it on her social media, and I even think I did it at the time just as a like, hey, like I'll do it for you and kind of stuff. And then she ended up paying me. Like, I didn't even expect to be paid because I was like, I'm just starting out, like I don't really have like business concept, nothing. I just want to try this. And that was kind of my start. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 5:54

Paying off the bat. I love it. See, because to me, the only thing that makes you a professional is when you get paid. So anytime I've been paid for anything, I'm like, I'm a professional. Like muralist, I'm a professional artist in this way or whatever. And then my brain's just like, yay.

SPEAKER_06 6:08

Otherwise, it's a hobby. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just different things, completely different.

SPEAKER_04 6:14

Yeah, I was thinking while you were speaking, just about the sentimentality around clothing and like where you wore it, or you know, like I did keep like my graduation dress for a long time. For an example, I saw my wedding dress, like that kind of stuff, those bigger moments when you have that fashion. Cause a lot of times, like I'll hang out with somebody, I'm like, I can't remember your name, but I know exactly what you were wearing the first time we met. And they're like, Really? I'm like, yeah, that fun sweater with like the things on it. And then they're like, You're so ready. And I'm like, but what's your name? Right. I know. Because we're so visual. Exactly. That for me, it just it makes so much sense. And so I don't know, it's just interesting, but do you feel like that's what comes out when you're you're cleaning out a closet? Is this all this sentimentality around like what happened in the outfit, like what they did in it?

SPEAKER_06 7:03

Oh, that happens a lot. Um, people do have a lot of sentimental pieces that either um they they a lot of times many years has gone by so they don't fit anymore, like either in style in their style or like physically the size has changed. Um, but I never tell clients to let go of that if they're not ready because you know, it's something that like I have my prom dress that I wore when I was 18. That dress is 20 years old.

SPEAKER_02 7:31

I love it.

SPEAKER_06 7:32

Um I still wear it. I wore it like year last year, I think, or year and a half ago. So once in a while I pull it out, but it's like a classic piece, so it never goes out of style. Um, but people also um assign value to things because you know, part of it is sentiment and memory, so I get that. They also hold on to things simply because they feel they spent money on it. So that's where you can like guilt almost. It's partially guilt because if you look around your house, everything that's in your house used to be money. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:06

Right?

SPEAKER_06 8:06

You paid for it some somehow.

SPEAKER_04 8:08

That's a funny way to think of that. Sorry. Used

Closet Emotions and Sunk Cost

SPEAKER_04 8:10

to be money.

SPEAKER_06 8:11

It used to be money. It's not anymore. It is something else. You transfer money by something else. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's your favorite vase, or it's your coffee machine, or it's your shoes, or it's your cow. It used to be money. Yeah, just I just like it. Yeah. It used to be money. So you're sitting around with all of the things that you've had. It makes so much sense. I've just never heard it like that.

SPEAKER_04 8:34

And now I'm gonna walk around my own reality. Money needs to be money.

SPEAKER_06 8:38

So that's where I really try to um talk to them about that. Like, I don't touch the sentiments because people are not, if they're not ready, they're and they don't have to. Like, I there's sometimes sections in there at closet or house, they're like, okay, this is my memorabilia type of thing, and this is a whole different story. But sometimes they're attached because, like, okay, I spend $500 on this. Okay, great. So, can you fit in it? Where are you going with it? Like, how long? Yeah, how long has it been since you wore it? So that is where maybe sell it and make it money again. That, yeah, just something that like nothing comes in place, nothing just comes to you just because you decided for it to come. Like you need to make space for it. Um, it's very important. I always tell my clients that in order to get the new you to be able to unfold better, you have to let go of the old you.

SPEAKER_02 9:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_06 9:34

This is the energy, the flaw. You have to replace that old energy in order for the new one to flow in. So part of it is physical possessions. Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:44

A lot of it is holding on to stuff. I come from a family of um maybe not a family, but well, you know, they know it. Um, of hoarders. Okay. So there's a lot of sentimentality around things. And for me, uh I also really love getting rid of stuff. And like I like the the cyclical like nature of like getting new things and releasing old things. Like, I enjoy that because I want to be my most present self. And I feel like when you hold on to that old stuff, you're a little bit stuck in the past. To your point, you have to make space. Right. And it is interesting to kind of, you know, think back. My grandma was um had like a four-bedroom house filled with stuff, and now she always said she was an antiques dealer, which she was. She had multiple antique places, you know, um, booths at places. She filled them up, she made money that way. But it was also her um social component is the I I feel like I want to have this conversation with you around retail and how much has changed because retail has been my career, and I just feel like sad about how much retail has changed and how much discount retail there is, and how little we place on our a little attention or intention, I mean, that we place on our items sometimes, and like it's so disposable. But anywho, so I come from all that's later, but I come from all of that where like everything meant so much. Yeah. Yeah. And then on my dad's side, there was just like a lot of penny pinching, you know, a lot of like holding on to it because you did spend money on it, and you're gonna use it until you can't use it anymore. Like my dad had the same pair of like black jeans for like 30 years, and I'm not saying that's bad, sure, but the outline of his wallet in his back pocket was visible. I'm like, dad, you don't want to like dye them again or do something. He's like, No. I'm like, okay. And I almost I can't decide, you know. I'm somewhere in the middle of that, obviously, because I come from both. So it is kind of an interesting thing of like the it is, it's almost all of it is holding on, but for what reason? And all of it becomes some kind of guilt or some kind of um attachment to past. And I just really want to um regenerate as a human as much as I can and reimagine. And I've had to fit in all different kinds of spaces, you know, having storefronts, having had an event space.

SPEAKER_06 12:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

Um, which I'm thinking might be the one we were. Did you come to an event at the event space? It was Wow Factor Collective.

SPEAKER_06 12:23

Um, it was an event outside, like just yeah, and then I just stopped by at your store afterwards. Yeah, it was just like that.

SPEAKER_04 12:29

I was just thinking you might have been into that space. Yeah. Because I closed it last year. Right. So I was like, maybe. Um, but yeah, it was went from all this square footage to like tiny little stuff. Tiny little store, and now not having the store, it's like into my house. So like getting rid of stuff, I'm like fine with. But yeah, it's like sometimes if you can't get the money back from it, you feel guilty in that way too. And I'm like, who else is gonna want this random inflatable cash cube? Right.

SPEAKER_06 12:57

I bought that seems so attractive at the moment. It's so necessary.

SPEAKER_04 13:01

I'm like, I needed it.

SPEAKER_06 13:03

What do you mean?

SPEAKER_04 13:05

But it's just like, am I the only one who needs it? But in my closet, I'm like, people are always trying to buy my stuff. Actually, at our events, I had to hide my clothes.

SPEAKER_06 13:14

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_04 13:15

They would try to buy them on the back, and I'm like, no, these are weird collections.

SPEAKER_06 13:18

You actually, yeah, wear that. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

And we're like, I made it, you know, and coming from a fashion background, I'm just like, yeah, I've been, I collect that's what I collect. Yeah, you like it. Because you like it. I can imagine your closet being like organized, but pretty big. How big is your closet? You have this out.

SPEAKER_06 13:39

Yeah, it's not actually huge. Um, I kind of it is, yes. I have been purging overall, like more recently. I feel like I go through cycles. I go through cycles of, like you said, regeneration, um where I have core pieces that have worn for years and years because I know my true

Style DNA and Dopamine Dressing

SPEAKER_06 14:00

style DNA. Um, so there's a theory of like your style. It's like kind of reminds me of the Maslow pyramid, if you know what that is, where your basic needs are like food, shelter, clothing, like just covering your body, right? To stay warm or or uh cool. Then the next layer usually it's like have an education or have a development. And like the top layer is like you are a fulfilled person that has a bigger purpose, right? Yeah, like safety. Yeah. So the same thing with clothes. There's a theory that you need to have a base, like your like second skin. For somebody, it's like t-shirt and jeans. For you, maybe it's like overalls and long sleeve. Like for me, it's maybe like pencil skirt and a blouse. Like, so you know what you're like, if nothing, this is what you wear. Then you have like your core DNA, like who you truly are, what you resonate with. Then you have like interesting pieces, statement of the pieces, and then you have like dopamine pieces, like it's those feathers and those sparkles and call those the wow pieces. The wow pieces, yeah. But you're right, the dopamine dressing is real. Right. So the bottom has to be the strongest, and as it goes out, like usually the percentage of what you own just kind of decreases. So I feel like I have really good foundation. So I usually shed like my metal and top like more often because you know that makes us feel more like contemporary, more relatable.

SPEAKER_04 15:17

Like Yeah, you're not gonna get rid of a white t-shirt. No, but you are gonna get rid of something you've worn and maybe feel felt right at the time, but does it now.

SPEAKER_06 15:26

And style is just something that like you as a woman, you can be like three different sizes in the span of five years. Yeah. So like For me, it's the span of five minutes.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

That's why I wear all this loose stuff.

SPEAKER_06 15:38

So it's something that you are gonna have to accept as a woman, right? So that you're gonna, like you talked about your dad wearing like the same jeans. Men typically don't jump sizes, or they like you have to think about hormonally too. Men wake up with uh maybe higher testosterone levels, they go slightly down throughout the day, but they don't change that much through like it takes decades for something to like drop, change. Like with women, you're different every week is different. Every phase, every yeah. Everything is different. Yeah, so I I certainly learned to accept the fact that I can't say, okay, well, this is what I'm buying, that's it. This is it. No, I can't. It's not realistic. Like I'm gonna have to buy something or change something. Like what I'm wearing today, I have a blouse that's vintage that I swapped. Like it cost me nothing. I just went to a clothing swap. I have a skirt that I went to work in uh Florida and I bought it at a vintage store. My shoes must be four years old. Um they're cute. Thank you. My purse is like from Milan when I had a trip to Italy. So I I find like interesting things, and some of them I hold on to, others like I change out and then I'm okay with it. But um cute purse too. Sorry, I'm just like drop Milan in there and I'm like, oh well, I love but I like it. I like things that mean something to me too.

SPEAKER_04 16:59

Like I could go online and buy it in the US too, but it was just the memory because it was the memory that you're talking about, the sentimentality of like now every time you get to relive that Milan vibe, you know, when you use this purse. I love it. And I grew up I'd rather buy that than like a magnet for my fridge. Exactly of like where I've been, you know what I mean? Just something more than a lot of people. I mean, I buy those too, but the meaning, I like the meaning behind it, and that's amazing.

SPEAKER_06 17:26

But I grew up um, I would say middle class, I would

Growing Up With Financial Uncertainty

SPEAKER_06 17:30

say at the time. I grew up in the 90s. Um, and at the time it was well, USSR, but it was around the time that it collapsed. So my dad was in the Air Force, and as like the countries were kind of you know falling apart or and restructuring, now becoming all independent states. Um my dad wouldn't get paid for months at a time. Wow. Um, my like they would pay. Just through all the confusion of it all. It was yeah, it was destruction of the government. And so he would get paid, but then like different parts of like military get paid. Like they couldn't pay everybody at once, so they would rotate like sections of like the type of works that people did. So sometimes we'd have, you know, three, four, five, six months that like there would no income. Um, my mom ended up getting like some side gigs, jobs, like reselling things, and we would have like times when you open our fridge and there's like not very much in there, but like cans of like red caviar because my dad flew somewhere, and like that was the only like they would get it like shipped to them, like and given to them as a gift, but there's like no bread, no milk, no basics. Yeah, so um, and it was you know, unprecedented times in Russia at the time where people were just getting into the free economy, like the the iron curtain collapse, so they were like free market, and like there's a lot of people selling, reselling, kind of setting up business, a lot of like illegal stuff going on too, because there was no structure yet in the government. No, so I grew up like imagine having like I said a lot one day and then having nothing next.

SPEAKER_04 19:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 19:04

So I grew up in a lot of unpredictability and as far as financial side of things.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

I always wonder about how that impacts you now, because it sounds like to your point, you've built, and we're just gonna keep it on the side of a wardrobe for the moment, but and we can go deeper, obviously, but like you've built that base and you've built those things. And does that make you feel safe to have that, you know, white t-shirt and legging and pencil skirt and blouse, like the unpredictability of growing up, how does that kind of resonate kind of through your life today? And does it like make you feel okay being an entrepreneur with unpredictability, or does it like bring back stuff that like scares you?

SPEAKER_06 19:45

You know? That's a good question. I think I built the good foundation because I was finally able to nail down my essence. Like, I think I've just gone through the stages of my life where I was searching and I just know what it is now. So I that's that's probably that part is about that. But the second part to answer the question on how that it affects me or being an entrepreneur, um it took me years to become entrepreneur. Like I've tried to have a couple different businesses as I was like I uh from the moment I came to the US, I think the first six months I didn't work because like you don't have work permission first, and like so it's a lot of paperwork. Then how old were you? I was 22 when I came here. Um I first came like in uh when I was 20, but I traveled back and forth, and I finally like immigrated when I was 22. Um, and so I was just out of college. Um things were very different of how you look for jobs here and there. Like I didn't know how things worked. Um at the time there was nobody there that could guide me or anything, so I just like applied for things online when I was able to finally when I had a work permit. Um and my first job, like I said, ended up being in retail. Um, and I um certainly had to learn a lot, and you know, where I'm from, like I had no, you know, kind of concept of entrepreneurship as much because again, it's was deemed very unsafe and like there was not even a thought of that at first.

SPEAKER_04 21:19

And even the idea of like trading all of these things and a new system, a new free market back with like Russia and everything. I feel like there's it it's still um yeah, it wasn't deemed entrepreneurship. No, it was just survival.

SPEAKER_06 21:34

It was the survival strategy just because there was not a lot of legal work available or in you know, in general, any work available. People were like losing jobs, people weren't getting paid for months at a time. So like, but you had to eat, so they had to figure out how to do that. And when you moved here and you started working in retail, like what did you study in school? Uh well, my degree is international relations and linguistics, so I I studied to be an Productions later. Um, so that was my my bachelor's degree. Uh, later on got a master's, but that was my bachelor's with with. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

Do you know that I have a sign language interpreting degree?

SPEAKER_06 22:11

No, I had no idea. It's in high demand. I know that's very neat.

SPEAKER_04 22:15

It is. Unfortunately, with um the brain fog and other things that come too. I just I didn't want to be responsible for someone's um communication besides my own. So I didn't choose that path, but I was one of the first graduating class uh V of L. Oh, that's awesome. We had 10 students that graduated with that, and a bunch of my interpreting friends are are doing it and loving it. I just felt like it ended up not being the right thing. Yeah. But I did it for like theater and um I wanted to do it for the courts because I love true crime.

unknown 22:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:46

I got to watch a murder trial, actually. Um a deaf person had murdered um someone else. So it was really interesting. Like all the ways it goes through. But yeah, I think that's why we both kind of there's some vibing around like language and how to use it and how how much impact it has that that we share that I've I felt, but I didn't realize maybe it's some of that the studying of it. I think it's really interesting. But yeah, are were you able to bring those qualifications over when you immigrated? Like what's what was that process like?

SPEAKER_06 23:18

Um, so yeah, so yeah, there are different um organizations that help you basically translate it into what it qualifies and like an education system in the US. So I had all of that, I prepared all of that. I knew what it would look like when I before I moved here. But then we lived kind of in the area where there's not like a lot of high demand for that. There's some, but it's like very freelance kind of basis. Maybe if you had Spanish, which I did study Spanish too, but clearly there's so many native speakers here that it's like I would be like a third choice on the list if not lower. So um it it was not like I didn't live in DC or New York where like I could. There's a lot of demand. Right, but in the small area, it was not. So I ended up, and again, I could have probably found some kind of job more related to it, but I just didn't like said, I had nobody that could guide me. Internet wasn't as developed. We're talking uh 2010. So like definitely not 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_04 24:12

So it was people forget how recent it is. Yeah, they really forget how recent.

SPEAKER_06 24:17

It was out there, but again, as an immigrant, as someone, even though educated, like it's still a different system. You still don't know how to how it works. So I ended up there's nothing wrong with retailing. The culture shock of it all, too. Yeah. But it was a different job,

Retail Pressure and The First Layoff

SPEAKER_06 24:30

like not what I had expected.

SPEAKER_04 24:32

I love working retail. I did too. Yeah. I mean, and especially I would say the 2010s is when I was working it as well and like management. So like um 2013, 2014, 2015, I was working um at um the mall. And I was in retail management for uh Francesca's and for um Charlotte Roos. Okay, yeah. And I just loved it because like it's a very pink collar job, you know, where you get to work with other girlies. Girls, yeah. But at the time I was struggling a lot because you know some of my story of like just struggling with my relationships with women and understanding how can they be safe. And they're a lot of the um hierarchical kind of structure that happens um in a patriarchal system like came through within the women. Like whoever was on the it was like watching um dance moms, and it's like you're on the bottom. That's right. Whoever that person was, I felt the collective like shit talking. Just hatred. And the hatred of that, or like the pointing out of what they were doing wrong. If you, if you were the one chosen, you would almost be nitpicked to oblivion and like you would you would want to quit. Wow. And eventually you would. And that was with like a big team at 25 or so people that were at Charlotte Roos, and it wasn't a college town, so like just a lot of college girlies, whatever. Um, but it came from the top, you know, like our regional director. Yeah, and it just felt like I mean, they would call and try to catch you off guard. And the amount of times I cried at Charlotte Roos was like a ridiculous amount.

SPEAKER_06 26:08

That's that's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 26:09

My regional director would call and be like, Well, you should know what's how many sales you have in right now. And I'm like, Yeah, you're totally right. I was just like straightening a rack and helping somebody let me look. Like it was like life and death. And I'm like, it's not, it's beautiful, cutie clothes, not beautiful, but you know, like fast fashion. I mean, they weren't like bad. Well, if it's college girls, they can afford something like that, right? It was a college town. I was just out of college for the most part, too. Um, so it was just like, you know, is what you could do. But the amount of times that like it came from the top, and I don't know if you ever experienced that, but it was so frustrating.

SPEAKER_06 26:42

Yeah, I I started at Macy's um and I worked at beauty. So just imagine it's the next level if you'll like from close. Um beauty department. Yeah, beauty department and the commission and like all of that.

SPEAKER_04 26:56

I never had to work on commission like that.

SPEAKER_06 26:58

Yeah, it wasn't like for it, we get like a little percentage of sales. Like it was not like massive. Like I know there's some stores that do even like deeper commission type of thing. But um I I did well. Like honestly, I just got right into that. I got promoted like three times in the span of four years. Like I went from just part-timer to an account coordinator for 13 stores. Fancy. It was big. Uh, I loved it. I literally had all my life laid out on that job. Um, and I it was like what you said when somebody calls, like, hey, how many sales like you got and stuff? I was that person calling.

SPEAKER_00 27:36

Turns up. Yeah, I was never mean.

SPEAKER_06 27:41

I was never mean to my team. I loved my girls.

SPEAKER_00 27:43

No, I would be like yelled at.

SPEAKER_06 27:45

But no, I I had I had some count to Jesus, but then I also had people on like over me that were like pressuring. Like, there were some times when like I felt that I would lose my job or that I would get like I'm sure my brain like overly done that too, like made it. Overthought worse, yeah, than what it what it is. But yes, I definitely had moments where like I knew if I wasn't gonna perform, like it was gonna not be good. Um, and it it was stressful, a hundred percent stressful. Um I think people don't give it that credit. They just think it was the lipstick, they're like, Oh, you're just selling lipstick, what's the big deal? It's it's very like beauty, especially, I feel like is even more competitive. I think you're right. Um, it's it was the desired department because it seems like easy because you're not carrying clothes and racks and that, but it's just different kind of you know thing. Right. But um, yeah, it was the job I lived and breathed, and then And you kind of have to.

SPEAKER_04 28:41

Like I did the same. I was just like every time I wasn't there, you just loved it. You're just like, okay, yeah, can't wait to get back. It's kind of a high.

SPEAKER_06 28:49

It is, you know, the pressure. And people people get used to you and like you get clients that come back and look for you, so that's that's really the fun stuff.

SPEAKER_04 28:57

And like you get to help them, like to your point now, what you're still doing is just like, you know, you get to help them through those like those big moments, you know, where like for me, like I was working with college girls, so it's like, what's the next like sorority party? Big thing, yeah. Or their graduation dresses, that was very sweet. Like, cause I had known them for a little while, and then just to see them like graduate and go on, and I was only a few years older than most of them, so I was just like, Oh, this was amazing, so cute, you know. But yeah, it's like it's that sentimentality, you know, of working in it, but also living it as a woman, as a person.

SPEAKER_06 29:33

I love that job, but um, I at the end of it all how it all ended is um again, like I was working towards my next promotion. I wanted to be a regional account coordinator, like a regional, like basically account executive, right? So, and I did so much and um I ended up being laid off from that job.

SPEAKER_05 29:51

No way.

SPEAKER_06 29:52

That's when the times were starting with the malls kind of going out the uh door. It was 2015. And that was my first wake-up call. Um, I already had a mortgage, I bought a house, and like only to get the news like about a year-ish later, then hey, like it's possible you will not have your job. And it was like a two, I remember it was like a two-week process because we waited for them to decide because they were like closing some doors and they were structuring. And then it was another week of like, yes, I knew I was getting laid off, but then every day almost I would get a call from HR. They were trying to like either talk to me about severance pay or figure out how to like keep me but in a different role. And I just couldn't get over it. Like I felt that I've given it my all, and I've given her like my like I said, my life and everything. Like I've spent long hours. I would drive at like I said, 13 stores, I would drive for hours to get to the location, work there on my feet all day, um, be available sometimes off hours and like everything I I I gave my my all, and then just to be like thrown away basically like that.

SPEAKER_04 30:59

It's like abandonment.

SPEAKER_06 31:01

It was, and that was my first time ever that, like I said, I realized not to ever put my all my eggs in one basket. Um and that was my first layoff. I've been laid off twice in my lifetime. Um, and overall that taught me that your safe nine to five paid job is an illusion.

SPEAKER_04 31:20

I agree with you a hundred percent. Like, if for some reason I'm gonna close something, I know about it first. You know what I mean? Or if I'm gonna pivot or do something different, like because the nine to five, like a lot of times they'll say, you know, the the most popular job ten years from now doesn't exist. Right. And I think that makes a lot of sense, you know, and that's why we do have to change, you know, our our career and our skill sets and everything, and people are nervous with AI and like whatever. It's just like how do we continuously be improving to where a job does exist for us in the future? And not that you weren't doing that, of course you were, but there's just so much out of your control when it comes to like a massive company or even a smaller company when it's just not your your main goal is to like stay there and you want to be there. And I felt the same. I was like, I love working in retail, how can I do this? And I wasn't laid off. I did end up leaving to start uh the new black, but it still just felt like such a well, eventually I became the one that they like nitpicked on. Yeah. And that really sucked because then I knew I was gonna build something for women and try to change that and not be yelled at all the time. It was a lot, it was way too much. Um,

Rebuilding With New Jobs

SPEAKER_04 32:40

but it's just it's difficult to leave and transition into anything after that. So, kind of what was your next step? How did you transition? Because feeling all of that anxiety or even learning that the nine to five isn't the safe thing that our parents have told us or that they felt that they stayed at jobs for so long, you know, and especially even grandparents, whatever. It's like, what's kind of the next step that you took, and how did you get over, you know, the layoff part? Hey Moneymaker, did you know that one of the most powerful things you can do with your dollar is decide where it goes? Introducing the Woman-owned wallet tour, your new favorite way to explore cities through the lens of woman-owned. From cafes and boutiques to salons and sweet spots, we're mapping out the baddest businesses powered by women. Think of it as a self-guided tour. Meets empowerment hour. Grab your friends, your wallet, and your walk-in shoes because we've done the research so you can do the shopping. Every stop you make puts money directly into the wallets of women. And around here, that's the goal. Ready to walk the walk? Visit womanownedwallet.com or come into our storefront in Louisville, Kentucky, and start exploring woman-owned businesses near you. Thanks for calling Woman-owned wallet the hotline.

SPEAKER_01 34:10

Women forever. Love us. Bye.

SPEAKER_00 34:16

This store is very amazing. It's so cool. Your job is the cutest. I love all the pink. Um, and I love that you're supporting women. Keep on doing what you're doing. All right, bye.

SPEAKER_04 34:33

What's kind of the next step that you took and how did you get over, you know, the layoff part?

SPEAKER_06 34:41

Well, I was definitely blindsided. I definitely felt like it came from nowhere. Um, and I I was lucky because at the time, so usually I don't know, it's a little bit different market here, but there's m a lot of places have like Dillard's and Macy's or like Nordstrom and Macy's. So there are a couple similar stores.

SPEAKER_04 35:00

Were you living in Louisville at the time?

SPEAKER_06 35:02

No, I was in Virginia. Virginia. So um, and we had both like Dillard's, Macy's, all those stores. So at the time, uh cosmetic manager position opened at Dillard's, and I heard about it. Somebody told me because like I had a lot of people knowing that I was getting ready to lose that job, and a lot of empathetic people, women, I should say women specifically, yeah. Were very, yeah, very, very like, you know, like felt that they wanted to help and they were like, hey, did you hear there's a job gonna be there? So I went and talked to the store manager, and literally I had my last day at Macy's on Friday and Monday I started a new job, a new place. It was very, I was very lucky. Um lucky in the sense that like I didn't sit and cry and I I was doing something. Like I knew, because like I said, I had a mortgage, I knew I had to get it paid up, right? I was just like, I'm not gonna just give up. And I also knew that I wasn't gonna, like I said, they were offering me roles that are different, and like for me it felt like a step back, and I just couldn't get over the emotional side of it. Like I knew it wasn't the like the store manager's fault or like the HR person's fault. Like it was decided and this happened like higher up. Like, I don't know how much input anybody had when they were choosing. So probably very little. Yeah, very little. Yeah. So I'm like, it wasn't personal with those people, but overall concept, like I'm like, I couldn't do it. So I just knew I had to start over, and I went there and I did have, you know, I did stay there for a little bit. It was great, you know, great time. I loved the team, but I'm like, I wanted a little more control. And as I was working, I'm like, I'm gonna try to find something that's closer to home because I was driving a little more at the time, a little further away. So I worked for about a little less than a year at Dillard's, and then I went to work for a small boutique where I was a store manager. Nice so that I could have a little bit of more of that control. Um, and that was one of my favorite jobs because it was an outlet, and there were 12 or 13 doors across the US, and we worked as a group, all outlet locations. My boss was in New York, he was a Brit, um, a gay brit. Um he was super fun. He was absolutely he was that like really amazing person. He was like an adult. Like he's like, this is your thing. You guys do yeah, he just everybody had their own, every store manager had their own. He was super respectful, he knew how to build a team. We traveled for our meetings, different parts of the US. Like I was in I went to Albuquerque once, I went to like upstate New York, we stayed in Airbnb. Like, he just was amazing at team building and respect and all of that. I loved to hear that job. Oh my gosh, it was like a breath of fresh air. And it was company overall was good company that I worked for, but he especially like it was so important. Um, because I was someone that was in charge of that store. I remember we did a renovation during it. So with all my girls, like I had to pack and unload all my store, put it on U-Hole, take it to the storage, then do it all over again in about a month or two to start, you know, to open the new, like renovated store. And he was amazing through all of that. Um so I stayed in that job for about two years. I loved the control, I loved it, it was closer. But I also at the time um I got pregnant with my daughter, and it was the retail. And I'm like, I need a nine to five, like literally, like Monday through Friday, nine to five kind of job.

SPEAKER_04 38:28

Yeah, because on those weekends, you're gonna miss.

SPEAKER_06 38:30

You're gonna miss. And and then that's you know, that was one of those things. And at the time I was out of the blue, I was approached by a recruiter, and she was like, Hey, this is a job we have completely different. You wouldn't believe what I went to to work. Uh it was an investment casting company. Um, basically, it's a company that makes metal parts out of titanium, alloy for airplanes, space, like things for NASA. Big stuff. Big stuff. Like I was I was helping to coordinate making parts for F you know 35, the jet, and it was uh a completely different job. It helped because I was, you know, it was a lot of computer work, a lot of office work. Um I nine to five. Nine to five. I was they hired me as I was pregnant. Um, so I was even trading, like losing some of my leave, leaving job, while that, but I thought that was the the thing. It sounds like a right the right decision for you. I the first day I worked there, I cried most of my drive back home because I realized where I got myself into. It was gonna be, I knew I was gonna have no help really, um, that I was really oversold on the job. It was it was a hard job. I was not only um constantly like it was more than nine to five. Got it. There was a culture there where you like you don't leave at five, and you don't leave like you had to, like it's that old school mentality with mostly like guys and men, and like the management was definitely very old school. People like the company would get sold and bought out every couple of years, people would get laid off and then brought back. It it was just there was a lot going on. The the main reason why people stayed there, it paid really well.

SPEAKER_04 40:17

Got it, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 40:17

It paid really well. Um, I went through a lot of interesting situations there after I had my daughter, then I was breastfeeding nursing, and I was like pumping at work, and it was very interesting situation.

SPEAKER_04 40:30

I mean, surrounded by mostly men, yeah. Like it was very interesting. Um were you like shoved into a bathroom kind of thing? Almost they're not gonna have a breastfeeding room.

SPEAKER_06 40:41

No, no, no. It was almost that situation. I was definitely in a position where it was like a closet. Um, I was walked in a couple times where somebody like as I'm sitting there pumping, walked in. Like it was, you know, they they apologize and everything. Like it was just awkward. Yeah. When I was trying to schedule things around my pumping time, that was also like questions were asked where I'm like, well, y'all know what's going on. Like, why are you like and then You hired me privately? Now there's a child. Yeah, and then like it was a lot of those kind of awkward situations or like where I was felt like you know, like they knew what was going on, but they seemed like not to care or you know that they wouldn't allow any flexibility. No, or it was it was perceived. Like on paper, it like it was all fine, but like in reality it really wasn't. And um I stayed that job through like as up the COVID started,

COVID Layoff and Teaching For Safety

SPEAKER_06 41:35

and that was my second layoff. That job was my second layoff because the COVID hit and some projects you know were slowed down, or like and they they and that was another layer of like another level of restructuring they decided that they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 41:51

Um, and they um that was the layoff I kind of saw coming. Not a hundred percent still, but like I was relieved. I was actually relieved. I was gonna say I could feel that. My mind at the time was going in places like I cried, like I said, a lot, and I'm like, how do I like what do I do? How do I do that? The money was good, but I was like, what am I doing here? Like, what am I serving here? Like, I'm just shipping parts, I'm like typing things up, I'm constantly hearing from men that um, like, hey, can you do this report? Can you do that? Like, you know, I upper management, yeah, like always like made you feel, you know, like you're an idiot.

SPEAKER_02 42:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 42:30

So um condescension, yeah, a lot of every level sending, yeah, things, situations. So I was at the point where I'm like, yeah, well, that's that's hard. Like I prayed for this. Like, I'd obviously like sometimes when you know you need a change and but you're too scared to make it, because I'm like, I have a small child, not only do I have mortgage still, yeah, but now I have a small child. Responsibility outweighed. Right. And I'm like, how do I what do I do? Um and that was kind of the time for me that was very difficult. It was COVID. I lost the job. I started um tutoring sometimes, like as the COVID was, you know, as people started coming out a little bit. I I I kind of leaned into my skill set of like having foreign languages, and that was like something I could do until I decided what's next. I took a pause, obviously, with the layoff and the COVID, like there was not much going on with job market, and I definitely didn't want to go back in that type of industry.

SPEAKER_04 43:27

You don't want to be in the same thing that you just left, right? That was overworking you, and it's just exhausting.

SPEAKER_06 43:34

Exactly. Retail wasn't safe either. Not with a small child and not with yourself, and with the COVID, right? Like that's that's what went first. Is yeah, the stores, nobody was shopping, everyone went online. And so I'm like, Well, what do I do? So I I wanted to kind of lead into my interpreting, but then I'm like, Well, where am I gonna find that again? The area hasn't changed, I still lived in the same place, so I knew it wasn't gonna be you know good enough, like it's not gonna bring enough.

SPEAKER_04 44:00

There wasn't enough demand.

SPEAKER_06 44:01

No. Yeah. So I started to think, well, what had survived COVID? Like, if it survived COVID, it's a stability. So at that time, this is what my mind was thinking. I wasn't that but the whole time, I mean, if you haven't realized, like everything I've so far worked at was out of some kind of need or necessity to fulfill something. None of it is about me. Everything I've described. You haven't been able to really blaze your own trail. No, you know. I never like it was it changed at some point, but I never had allowed myself to say, hmm, what do you want to do? Like, what do you love? Like, none of that. It was always about money, safety, pay mortgage, take care of child. Like, not none of that, like I put myself in. Um, so I after some thinking, I'm like, okay, well, obviously, doctors always need, I'm not a doctor, not a nurse, never wanted to be. And plus, it would take years, right? For anything to go back learn. I'm like, okay, well, what else survived? Like food industry, like some extent, like, yeah, I'm not going into any restaurants or anything either. I'm not a chef, like, I wouldn't do that. Well, everything else that stayed was education. Like, women worked from home, teachers worked from home. I'm like, okay, I know foreign languages, I know that um there are students that need to learn ESL, like English is a second language. I'm a second language speaker, and I've had throughout the years people reach out to me. It's like, hey, like, you know, how do we learn English? Can you help me? So I teach it throughout the years, you know, here and there. So I went ahead, I got a grant to go back to school. So 10 years after I graduated, I got myself together. I was able to get a grant where my first year basically was covered. Nice. And I went to get a master's degree in education. Um, I went back to work for like $12 or $13 an hour first as a teacher's assistant. And then six months later, I was um able to get a teacher job. So I became a public school teacher.

SPEAKER_02 45:56

Yeah, I know. Teaching ESL.

SPEAKER_06 45:57

Yeah, I was teaching English as a cycle language. That was my safe job. That was my safe because I'm like, if anything ever happens, education stays, I it will stay. Should. It should, yeah, in one way or another. Like it's gonna be available, like either online or in person or somewhat. Like that's a degree.

SPEAKER_04 46:15

Were you teaching uh Spanish as well since you had also studied that? Or I guess English as a second language to Spanish speakers, or a lot of them were Spanish speakers, yes.

SPEAKER_06 46:24

A lot of my students came from Latin America. Uh so there was uh I would say 60 to 70 percent. There was other languages too. Of course, there would, you know, then later on refugees from Ukraine as the war had unfolded, so I would get a lot of those students, but then you know, other countries as well. So I felt like I could relate really well because I was an immigrant myself. I knew what you go through the process. So I would teach, I remember I got I was teaching that night adults, I had adult ESL classes, so and then during the day I was teaching um kids. Yeah. So I did that for a couple years, um, and I did really well. I like still out of safety. Out of safety, like that right now. Yeah. I liked it. I I knew how to do it, but like it the thoughts every time every time I've gotten a job, the thoughts were about basically keeping food on the table, keeping lights on, having everyone.

SPEAKER_04 47:18

There was no like opportunity for dreaming. No. And for opening it up to yourself beyond what you needed to put on the table. I understand. Since I was a kid, like because it was about survival. It's about just and I feel like that is a through line for you for sure. It's that what creates the survival, you know. And I'm sure that came from being, you know, coming um from a place where, you know, there's a lot of upheaval and trying to figure out how to survive. And I I couldn't imagine not having an income for that long um for an entire family or for an entire country to rotate and everything. So it does make a lot of sense. And I feel like getting into what you have um created now, like you're finally doing it for you, it feels. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:04

It was finally something I allowed myself to feel because it took me as as things were unfolding with my second um layoff. Like it I haven't mentioned that, you know, I've been married that whole time.

SPEAKER_02 48:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 48:19

And at no

Therapy, Divorce, and Self-Trust

SPEAKER_06 48:20

time and place were there enough um feeling of safety in my relationship where I thought that the other person had my back. Um and that they there were things that were said to me where I knew exactly that like this is just me on my own. Yeah, like you gotta figure it out. Right. This is nobody's ha doing anything else. It's like me or not, nothing will happen. And um I at that second layoff, I already like it was part of like, okay, I I think this is not working. I think I need to figure out how to get on back on my feet. And I also started um back working out at the time after I had my daughter, she was already 18 months, going on two years. I'm like, okay, I I've always been active, but I'm like, I need to just really get myself together. Just do it for you physically, mentally. Because I'm like, I know things are changing. I feel like I was I I didn't know it yet, but I was like preparing myself for something to be stronger.

SPEAKER_02 49:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 49:14

And I um started, you know, to just think figure things out for myself, who I am, like what is what is with me. I had a good friend that we talked, um, we've been friends since we were 11, so like 27 years now.

SPEAKER_05 49:29

Wow.

SPEAKER_06 49:29

And we have conversations a lot. And she asked me, she's like, Well, just imagine you are sitting, like, just think of it like it's your regular, like every day, like Thursday, let's say, and then you're everything's done for the day. You're just sitting in the evening, like at your table with a glass of wine in your kitchen. You're fulfilled. Just close your eyes. Yeah, close your eyes. She's like, Well, just imagine that right now, like at the time, I think I was about 35 or 34. She's like, just imagine, close your eyes. And 10 years had gone by, you're like 40, 44, 45. Nothing's changed. You have the same house, the same job, the same person next to you, the same circumstances. You do about the same thing every day. She's like, How do you feel? And I was like, Is this it? Yeah, like, is this all I'm gonna do with my life? kind of thing. And that was a little bit of a scary like wake-up call.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:26

And I'm like, why am I living like I'm just a bystander? Like, I was so scared to take my own life in my own hands. And it sounds like I've been doing that, right?

SPEAKER_04 50:41

But on the surface, yeah, externally, it could be externally like that, it could seem like that. But of course, you know, we especially throughout your whole, you know, story and your whole existence, it's been like you kind of do have to take the bull by the horns, kind of thing. And that's that's the thing that we're gonna praise. Yeah. The hyperindependence is what we're gonna praise. And when we praise that, what does what else is there? You know, like, and I think a lot of us do that through whatever reasons we do that. But it's especially in like entrepreneurship and other places, it's like rewarded. It's like um not rewarded with anything besides yes, clout, I guess, or just like um sweet things said to you about being hyper-independent. But I'm like, no, we're actually really need each other. And what a beautiful thing for your friend to kind of pull you through that exercise. Like, no wonder you've been friends so long.

SPEAKER_06 51:34

It was visual, like for sure. And that was also the time like a lot of things were happening at parallel. I was working out, I was, you know, I was into this new job. You were preparing. I was, and this is where my style started to change too. Like, I was ready. I'm like, okay, I'm working out now. I'm probably the size and the fit I'm gonna be now after I've had my daughter. And I looked up in my wardrobe, and I also remembered that as I was pregnant or before pregnancy, I remembered that I didn't buy really much for myself. Like all my clothes were like a couple years old, and or like, you know, I would get it, somebody would give away clothes, and I would, you know, take some of them. And I'm like, well, who am I? And so that was also the time then I started to try new things. And I'm like, well, what fits me? What jeans should I wear? What styles should I wear? And I started following people on Instagram or like looking up with you know, stylists are out there or like bloggers out there. That's when it all kind of started in parallel. And that's when I realized that as like, especially you know, women, we transition at usually some kind of life events. Like men usually like that, okay, I hit 50, like where I hit 40. Yeah, women's age versus uh events. For women, it's events, it's like your lifestyle changed, the place, like maybe your job changed, maybe you had kids, maybe you lost weight, gained weight, got married, got divorced. Like we usually connect in event kind of stage. And that's when I first started having just thoughts of like, okay, I missed the part of dressing up. Like I felt I haven't done anything for myself for so long I would do for others and to take care of others. I'm like, what about me? And I just I'd had no thoughts about becoming a stylist by no means. I'd never even thought about it. So lo and behold, of course, through all these processes, I realized that I can't stay married anymore. And I, you know, kind of start having conversations with my first husband and at the time, and you know, I figure out that like it's not it's not happening, like we're we're not gonna work. And it you know, it becomes really painful and a lot of unexpected things happen, and I ended up I end up living by myself with my daughter. Um, and I started going, I started taking some courses and some I'm going to therapy now. Like I started going to therapy.

SPEAKER_04 53:51

Proud of you. Um I'm proud of you for discussing it with him too. Like anybody that's in a situation that no longer serves them. I'm proud of them for even identifying that, but then doing something about it. It's it's really um it's really beautiful to know that you know you did that for yourself.

SPEAKER_06 54:08

It took years to come to from the time that the first like thought even like or like happened in your mind to the point where you signed the papers. It takes years. Yes. Almost no one, I know I know very few people, like I I would just probably say there's one person I know that once she identified something was off, she was gone within like six months, they were divorced. But they had no kids and like they were new and like was definitely much easier. I also realized that I probably should have been on that journey much earlier, that the signs were out there. I was just honestly scared. I had fears from something silly, like, oh, I want like what if we get divorced, like I won't have time for like working out or like a something silly like that.

SPEAKER_04 54:51

For you, I won't have time for you. Right. You'll have more responsibility that you're that you have to take care of. Right. And you've been there before, and that doesn't feel safe.

SPEAKER_06 55:00

No, and that's like up to the bigger thoughts, it's like, okay, well, I'm gonna lose my house, I'm gonna lose half of like my equity, like where am I gonna live? Like there was small to big fears. Of course, yeah. And I had to go through the process of them and deciding because I feel like women in general, we don't like we wait and we wait and we tolerate and we wait and we wait a little more and then we wait a little more, and then again, and we forgive and we do this, and then we do but by the time we're done with you, like there's no way back. Like we've cut off everything in ourselves that there's no point of return. And I got to that point, and I was like, it's gonna be crazy. There will be a lot of pain, there will be a lot of things, but I just I just went through that. And through therapy, I started to slowly just dig things up from my childhood, from my current situation at the time that I was in, from things just about me and about needs and about wants. And I slowly, slowly started to just allow myself because I haven't felt like quite alive. I felt like I was going through the motion, I was just doing what was expected, I was trying to do the right thing, but it wasn't like the right, the right for me thing. Yeah, right for you. Um, and I just that was another like a ha moment that my therapist helped me with because I like I don't know what I want to do. Um like I feel like I'm just doing things because they're needed. Yeah. She's like, she gave me, she gave me that another visual. I guess I'm I'm that imaginary person. I think those things work for me. Yeah, and you gotta visualize it. I do. And she said, like, imagine you're in again, I don't know why kitchen always comes up. Maybe I'm just love food. But she's like, imagine you're in your house. You have like the your dream kitchen, your dream house. There's a beautiful car outside, you have your bank accounts full, you like you set for investment, your kids are taken care of, everyone's healthy, no need to like you know, freak out about anything. You're just laying on the couch one day, like reading the magazine or whatever. What is gonna make you get off that couch? Everything's taken care of, you don't have to do nothing. Your life is fulfilled. What do you want to do if you don't get paid? I said, Well, I said if a phone call came and my friend asked me like what shoes to wear with the dress or like go shopping, I'd be like, I would be delighted.

SPEAKER_02 57:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 57:26

And that's when I realized I didn't say go plan a lesson, I didn't say go to teach a class, I didn't say go, you know, sell something. I didn't say go sell like you know metal parts for airplanes, I didn't say none of that, none of that. So that that job, those jobs or those things were great to support just my survival. They were not fulfilling me. So that's when I started to kind of look a little bit in that direction of what it is, what is it that I want? And there were so many self-doubts. It's like, well, who am I? Like, I'm not a designer, I don't know how to sew clothes. Like I did a little bit in high school, like I understand some of that. Like, I'm not an expert. I've been away from retail for like a long time

Starting A Styling Business Anyway

SPEAKER_06 58:10

by then, like about you know, seven years at least, I haven't been. And like, what do I know? I remember signing up for uh my Vogue College of Fashion courses. I remember signing up for them and then canceling because I freaked out. Like I canceled. I'm like, I'm I found so many excuses. Like, I'm not gonna have time, I'm not gonna like what am I doing? I'm still in the middle of divorce, like what is going on? Like I re-signed up again, it could take a couple months, but it's never like it's by no means it was an easy process. And I it took me then, you know, the whole different stories, like posting on social media and trying to find clients and working with clients. So much of the imposter syndrome started to just pull me in, and I'm like, who's gonna want me to like tell them what to wear? Who's gonna hire me? Like, how am I gonna like there's so much there? And at some point I just remember that I'm like, I started doing. Like, I know some people say, Well, you need to have a business plan. You need to start with I've never had one.

SPEAKER_04 59:16

But they always tell like the men, the coaches they tell you the plan. This is great. It's not bad to write things out. No, of course. We're not saying that, but especially in a creative field, I do think that there's a lot of room for it to um breathe and a lot of room for it to allow the creativity to lead, you know, into which direction you want to go. And before you go a little further, I do want to ask because I've been in therapy for so long. I love it. I've just restarted for like some new stuff. Um, but I was like, I when I was in therapy, I had to really learn kind of what you're saying, like my needs and my wants. I was like people pleasing so long and being there for everyone else that I couldn't even ask my husband for like a glass of water without feeling just the intense guilt of like, and he didn't put that on me. That was just on me. He'll have he gives me water every day now.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:12

Like he's but it was your perception.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:13

You felt like you like I needed to do it for myself because allowing someone else to tend to me or care for me in some way was weakness and was viewed as that. And it's kind of how I grew up in some of these situations is that the women took care of the things in whatever the things were. And I don't know, if you didn't do that, it like wasn't respected. And I didn't want to be not respected in my own home or in my own relationship. And then I realized like once I understood that I'm allowed to have needs, I'm allowed to have wants, that's like I was already doing it, like already being an entrepreneur. Cause I I think for me it was just because I was chronically ill and I tried to have other jobs, but I got difficult. Yeah. I was if I wasn't let if I didn't leave, I would have been let go for how many sick days I had at my jobs. So I just figured it out and decided like I have to do this way because it's the only thing with flexibility.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

And um it was never never felt safe, but it never felt um, I never felt guilty for having to change that until recently when I'm like, oh, I finally know what this diagnosis is. I finally like some clarity. Yeah, with clarity around how many people go through these, you know, things that need flexibility and we don't have them. And so it's just interesting. And I feel like kind of taking you through that vision visualization exercise as a therapist that um and your friend doing it as well is such a valuable tool that that you really did get the answer for for the first time, like the realization of like, yeah, I want to go help pick shoes, I'm at go with that dress, like same. And it's the create creative side that you know, we can pick any pair of shoes with any dress, and it would be fun, it but it depends on the person and how you get to know them. And it it's about their their energy and their style. And it's just so interesting that through therapy, which I have I love poetry, there's this poem. It's super short, don't worry. I'm not like it's longer than this, but it's cute. It's like life is too short to eat celery, life is too long to feed jealousy, and life is just the right amount of time to need therapy. He's a beautiful poet. I watch his stuff all the time. But it's just like there's always the stigma around therapy, and I just so much appreciate that you did that for yourself and that you took that jump for yourself. I'm proud of you for doing that because it's hard to get into it for the first time. Um, and I can only imagine, you know, um, just that relief that you must have felt, and then you're moving into it now and writing it all. You're not writing it all now because you're like you're vibing. But you write some down. But yeah, I just wanted to say before we got into like this part of your story, like I just think it's really beautiful how much you've shared and how important it is. And I hope that our audience knows that as well that there's there's so much beauty in therapy, and it can be for a lot of different things. And yeah, thank you for saying that. Well, thank you for sharing it. I really appreciate it. Yeah. So the styling, y'all, the styling, the closet edits, all the things, that's where we are now. Um, also, yeah, her social media, y'all. Kate's hilarious. So not only is she great on there, I'm probably your biggest fan. I appreciate all the support, all the likes, the comments. Always, I'm always trying. Um, but I really like um yesterday you sent me one that was about statistics within fashion. And I just thought it was so interesting, by the way. Cause I'm not a big researcher. Like, I'm trying to get into that mode a little bit and like be more about data collection so that I can show women-owned businesses and what we do through numbers, which there's some people that collect that, but it's just not enough. So I'm trying to get into that and get into the vibes. So you helped me get into the vibes of like, oh, well, I didn't know that. I think it was like 20, I'm gonna butcher it, but 27% of women that wear a pencil skirt, they take you 27% more seriously or something like that. Can you remind me? Hey Moneymaker, if you're listening right now and thinking, wow, I love shopping woman-owned. And now I see how much good my dollar does when it's in the wallets of women. Then guess what? We've got something just for you. While tuning into our podcast, you can head over to womanownedwallet.com and shop our online store with free shipping on every single order. No code needed. Just click and check out. Support a woman-owned business. Enjoy that free shipping and feel good knowing that your dollar has done some serious good. You're not just shopping, you're shifting the economy. And we can't wait to wow you on our website, womanownedwallet.com, with free shipping on every order.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:15

I love it. So beautiful. Love the don't be a dick. Thanks. Gorgeous. Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

SPEAKER_01 1:05:31

Women forever. Love us. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:38

Uh, pencil skirt. They take

Color Analysis and Style As Strategy

SPEAKER_04 1:05:40

you 27% more seriously or something like that. Can you remind me?

SPEAKER_06 1:05:43

Yeah, the the pencil skirt. Yeah, so there's um uh thought or statistics, right? The data that women that wear pencil skirts get twenty seven percent more job offers than those that wear like decollet, like a low cut type. Like show after. Right, right. That if you were to choose something like a pencil skirt would be a better choice than like a revealing blouse. For like a job interview. For job interview, we're talking. Yeah, everything serves purpose, right? Yeah. I don't ever feel like there's a bad outfit. There may be an outfit that's not gonna send the message you want. That's a good point. Um so we should use it as a tool. Like I tell women in general that hey, for all people, like everything that we do, we want to say, we say first with how we appear. Yeah. It's it has to do with mannerism, it has to do with like your eye contacts, your gestures, and what you wear, and what color things you wear. So all of those things, before you even opened your mouth, like about 90% of that message has been sent of what you wanted to say. Then as you start speaking, then you can maybe change that perception of image. Because I've met people that like look like one thing, and when they start talking to them, like, oh, they're not like what I thought. You know, just different, right? So that's why and are you presenting the way that you want to? Yes. So like I can dress very differently when I go out to a restaurant with my husband, and when I'm going to work, you know, with a client that's very conservative and like goes to church. Like, there are gonna be two different ways that I'm going to look. It's still gonna be me, but I'm catering to the audience that I want to uh the situation you're in and how you want to be perceived.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:24

You know, they they love to say that now. Like, I don't want to be perceived, perceived, but like uh but I do.

SPEAKER_06 1:07:30

Yeah. And women for us, like I guess, because again, we sometimes wake up, like, you know, I I try to pick out my outfits the night before. Like I lay there or like I pull things out, but sometimes it changes. Like in the morning, I would have this idea, and I'm like, you know what? I'm going for slightly different today. Like that's how I picked out my yesterday's outfit. I ended up grabbing my husband's tie and like doing a whole different vibe that I thought I was gonna wear, like a blazer and a skirt. I'm like, mm-hmm. I felt like a little more edgy. So as women, so good.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:00

I have to tell y'all, she was wearing like a button-up white kind of long sleeve-collared shirt. She had the tie on, and then she had like a silky reminiscent of lingerie kind of slip, but like, you know, still appropriate. We were co-working yesterday for Woman on Wednesday, and I was just like, damn, that's a fun fit. It's so fun.

SPEAKER_06 1:08:21

But you know, some some days you just feel like you want to play and do that fun stuff, and other days you're like, hey, where are my sweats and my you know, t-shirt is? Yeah. And there's nothing wrong with that. Like, again, depends on where I'm going, who I'm wanting to be. Do I want people to look at me and get the attention, or do I want to actually blend in and fit in? So you have to think about it as your strategy. This is, I tell people, this is the easiest tool in your toolbox. You don't have to yet like show your skill set, your background, whatever that you're going after, the promotion or networking event, or trying to, you know, get a business as an entrepreneur. Like, what are you trying to do today?

SPEAKER_04 1:08:58

Do you all hear how much more confident and like in herself that Kate is being right now? Because she has stepped into that power. I feel the power and I'm into it. Of course, your whole story matters, every part of it. But I feel like because you've chosen yourself and your and your wants and your needs in this moment, and your energy is so ready for this moment. And I just, I've heard it. I felt it. And I was like, they're feeling colors. Um, I do want to talk about the color analysis. So if y'all want to check out Woman Owned Wallet, the show on YouTube. Kate is in our first episode. I called her up because I was like, ah, I need a gal for this. Like, help me out. Yeah. And Maddie, um, who helped me with like my styling, my color analysis, and um my makeup. Um, what were featured on the first um episode of our new YouTube series versus our pilot, which we were trying to go for Netflix, but now we're just YouTube girlies and we're obsessed. Um, more episodes will be up soon, of course. But she's on that first episode, and you get to watch me get my color analysis done. And honestly, I have texted her so many times and been like, wait, what about this outfit? And what about that? And I have a few weddings to go to, and I was like, uh, they're family weddings, so I have to wear different stuff, and I have rehearsal dinners plus the wedding, and I'm not in the weddings, but I'm in the photos of like family. Yeah, they're my brother-in-law, so like we'll be in some stuff. And so I wanted to match their colors and all this stuff. I still have to show her what I got because I got some from OG, our friend, our fashion designer friend. Um, but like I feel like just having to your point the strategy, the styling strategy part that hits so nice. Like my heart is just like, yes, I love some strategy because it does. It feels it's it's fueled by intentionality. And it's fueled by, well, what do you want to say? Or what do you want to attract? And what do you want to bring in? And for me, I was telling you, I was like, listen, I'm trying to be a friendly, I'm trying to be your friend. I'm trying to be the friendly girl that's that you listen to about deeper stuff, but you get to engage with, you know, me as somebody who can also hang out with your mom or with your kid, or like I want to be everybody's like auntie. No, I want to be a bestie. I want to be friendly and warm. And you're like, you're doing all the cool tone stuff. What are you doing? I mean, that's my way of saying it, but she showed me through the color analysis how that that dark autumn is like really my, I've told so many people. I'm just like, I'm an autumn. Leave me alone. I'm so cool. But like I was dressing so like pastels and a few other things. And it's not that I'll never wear those. Sure. But to your point, the more I put towards my face, that's a warm tone, dyed my hair new colors that are we're leaning into the warm tones versus the cool tones. And I just, every time I think about it, I've been learning how to, it's it's a process. Like I've been learning how to change my makeup over to enjoy it a little bit and how much do I want to do with my makeup or not?

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:12

Um, and it feels like it feels like to your point of like knowing your strategy, but also knowing what you want. What do you want to say? What do you want to do? It's it was such a exercise in my own identity that I had wanted to try, but like getting to do that with you and going through actually looking at every single um color and every single season and the leopards with the metallics. Like, I really think every woman should do it. And every person, but you know, every woman should do it because I feel like it's an I it's a way for you to engage with yourself that you feel more safe understanding because you you watched it happen. You watched your identity form in some way of like knowing how to choose the color that best fits you. Right. Knowing how to show up in a room for me, feeling the friendliest I've ever felt, you know, it is the friendship bracelets, it is the charm necklace, it's the pink, the little the light pink, but it's a little further away from my face, you know. Like it is those things where every time I've gotten dressed since then, even if I had questions and I asked, you know, my strategic stylist, Kate over here, that I felt more confident walking into any room. And it did lower the anxiety or the pressure around, am I supposed to do this? Am I because it did feel I did feel off and I didn't feel like I knew how to fully transition into the adult version versus the juvenile version of the form of myself that I've been presenting. Um, I was just like, I just don't feel fully formed. And since we had, and now I've been like, all right, let's do my closet. Let's, what do I need for this? What do I need for that? Like when you step in and you feel yourself have that beautiful experience of understanding your color analysis, especially with someone like Kate, like, oh my goodness, like it just felt so real. And I've told her that her like Slavic background, she's like, she won't lie to you, and that's all I've ever wanted people to not lie to me. And I'm just like, lean in, girl, lean into like, because you don't want to leave a styling appointment or even like a hairstylist or whatever. And they're like, you look great, and they're like laughing at you behind your back. That's not happening here. And so it's just been such a beautiful experience, and I hope that they'll check it out on the show because you did such a beautiful job. But I hope that they do that for themselves, like lean into that identity, especially in womanhood.

SPEAKER_06 1:14:43

Yeah, and I feel like it's it's the collar analysis in general about being who you are authentically, like showing you what your essence is, right? Like you can become who you want to become, you can change in any way you want. You can dye your hair, you can choose different like makeup shades. But I think it's important to know what you are, like born, like who you're born with, your identity. Like, and part of it is like I I told you it was interesting, you're choosing cool colors, like, and I get the strategy too. It's like this contrast, right? Like blonde with like bright pink, like people resonate with it. So I get it from a strategic point too. But when you start to feel it's like I think I went a little too far. Like, where did I turn? And you kept telling me, like, hey, I'm going against this. I don't feel like it's a it's it feels like a struggle. So that's just the sign that you know your brand and you are a little too far apart. Like you want to be a little bit closer to that, to your identity. Connected. Connected. And that's why I said, well, you seem like you're a really warm person, like, and you are a warm tone. So why are you going cold? Like I have a more cooler tone.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:54

So like uh that's the same. You're the black cat. We get it. Yeah, so it's not just me.

SPEAKER_06 1:16:00

Be the golden retriever. And I'm like, oh. But yes, then you change it. Like you didn't well, you know, you didn't go all the way like the opposite spectrum. Like we just brought you in just a little bit closer to that, so it's less effort, so it's you know, more, you know, authenticity, which people like scan immediately. Like I never, you know, felt that you were fake with any like way, shape, or form, but it just resonates even more with people when you are you know able to just accept who you are and like just enhance yourself in a way that just makes it you know authentic, but it sends the message that you want to send. So and the process of either styling or

Why Real Style Change Takes Time

SPEAKER_06 1:16:40

color analysis is not quick. Like people say, Oh, I'm just gonna hire a stylist, she's gonna go shop all those things for me, and then like I'm done. No, like usually the first shopping trip that I make with my clients is just the beginning. A lot of times they have a vision of who they want, but for different reasons, they are not able to be that person. Like, I can put them in those outfits they show me on Pinterest or like online, but they will not wear them, they're not comfortable. Like they need to take a step by step. Honestly, the transformation may take a year or longer for a person to work with a stylist really truly. Usually, first trip, we just get like basics, like your basics. We just clean out your wardrobe, we're just getting you the pieces that are you're missing. We haven't gotten into fun stuff yet. So you need to unfold internally as much as you do externally. Because I mean, if you haven't taken your shower, but you you know put on like a beautiful lacy dress on, you're still gonna stink. You have to clean out. I like that. You have to clean out that inside, you have to connect with yourself, you have to ask yourself the questions and be comfortable because I can put you in beautiful clothes, but if you are standing shy in the corner, you're not gonna unfold that outfit in the way that you want it. So um I that's why like I tell it's not just clothes, this is much deeper. I've had people cry doing closet cleanouts, I had people get angry, I I had people literally say things like, Oh, I know I'm ugly, or like, I know I'm fat, or I know like, you know, I don't look and good in this. Like women tell me this a lot, have told me this a lot. Because I mean, let's just be honest. A person that's fully confident, that's absolutely you know happy with herself, that's like fit in her own way, she's probably not needing help. Like she's gonna wear whatever she wants if she, you know, can care less. People that come to me are women that are, you know, in a transformational, maybe vulnerable state, maybe they just fed up with something and they're like, okay, I I'm ready to, like, it's it takes courage to say, can you tell me what to do? Like, I like it's almost accepting a failure to an extent. It's like I don't know what to do. Sometimes it's a point of like, okay, I just need a different eye, like I need a fresh eye, like you know, I'm kind of stagnated because I've done the same thing over and over. But it is a lot of times the women are at the point where like I just like I can't, like I have no, either no time or no help or no knowledge. It takes a lot to accept that in the first place, then have someone come out and tell you, like, you know, don't wear this. So I have to be gentle with my presentation, but I also serve a purpose. You hired me, you're paying me money to add the spice to your chicken so you could stop eating the dry, you know, the rubbery chicken with plain rice. We need to add some spice and juiciness and that skin to it, right? Like add it up. She's a visual girl. Yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:34

But think about it.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:35

You do, you need it. You need it. You hired me for that.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:38

You hired me to pull you just enough outside your corporate zone.

SPEAKER_06 1:19:41

To get you started. That you got started. My job is to eventually just let you lose. But some people need more or less help. So that's why, you know, I usually vary my services based on you know, where which place that you're in, yeah, and how much responsibility you're ready to take on your own, you know, journey of style. Because all it is is you're just wanting what you I still work as a translator. I just translate what's inside of you into the outside. I still technically do what I do, but in a different form.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:12

Yeah. So I feel that way a lot actually with translation and interpreting and stuff. It's like because you have to be so observant and understand how to get things trans to transform something into something else. Like it is interesting that we come from that, but also like with the new black people would come in and uh they're trying on little black dresses, and it was for all different reasons. A lot of times it was funerals, a lot of times it was to get a new job or that they wanted to. Actually, some people bought fuck you outfits. They were like kind of like a revenge dress. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like the Princess Diana's dress when she found out about him. Yeah. Yes. And more recently, Ariana when she found out about Tom's.

SPEAKER_06 1:20:52

I don't think I've seen that one. Oh God, it's it's a lot.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:55

But anyways, Vanderpump Rules fans will get that one. But it's like, yeah, that the revenge dress. And but they come in with all these preconceived notions of what the world's told them, what they've told themselves. And it's like, how do you feel in this? And how does it, how does it open up your your soul and your your spirit? And how do you, how do you interact with this in a way that again, you're presenting what you want to present, whether it's, you know, the revenge dress or not. But like, how do we, how do we let you have that moment that feels so good? So when I was like designing clothes, I didn't use any closures, everything was stretch fabric. So it could, it could change with you throughout the day. And honestly, it was just clothes that I needed because I was sick and I needed to be able to have that opportunity for the clothing to um yeah, stretch with me as if I got bloated or inflamed throughout the day. But I was ignoring so much of my own stuff. To your point, I was like, it just felt very much like I was too scared myself, but I was helping all these other people. And I do think it takes a lot of courage. And I'm always proud of, I'm proud of people. I love to be proud and of people, and the courage makes me proud. You know, you stepped outside of that box. You did that thing that was just for you. And I hope that people will make themselves proud and understand that bravery will follow, you know, like that courage to just take a step and ask. I call it hand holding, to just ask for a little hand to hold, a little pinky to promise. And how do we get through this mostly this transition phase of our lives? And I feel like kind of as we wrap up a little bit, I'm just like, I'm over the moon with the services that I've received from you, with the friendship that I've received from you that we're able to have together. And I'm just so happy to have like a fashion girly in my life because I was missing it so much. And I'm I love an aesthetic opposite aesthetics, especially attract me. So the black cat to you, the golden retriever vibes of me. But you really did help me see myself in in a a way that I wanted to present as warm and friendly. And I just very much appreciate you and and um your skills and the education, because it truly still is that the education and the therapy of it all that really helped me to see myself more. So thank you so much for all of that.

SPEAKER_06 1:23:12

Well, you're welcome. I'm definitely happy to see, and like you said, it's just the beginning. Like it just starts to spark that interest and that knowledge. You are gonna process it over time, and then you're like, you're like, okay, now I'm looking at my closet. Like, what do I do next? Like, how do I enhance things next or change things next? And I notice it like when I watch my clients on social media and the ones that definitely apply what I've told them, they they do go through those transformations and they do become magically after they change their clothes, they become happier, or they get promoted, or they get promotions, or they get you know, something happened like in their life. They accepted something in themselves that allows those things in. And my best clients, they do the inner work, like they they they manifest, they journal, they go to therapy, or they, you know, do they do things aside from that. So, like I said, I can put anyone in cute clothes, but it's like it's on like it's your responsibility. I'm just there to facilitate and guide, but you need to be ready, like to do it yourself. So that's a very important part to like for me. I've learned to ask certain questions and like learn about a person enough that I understand whether or not they're ready to work with a stylist because sometimes it's not the right time. I get less and less of that as I continue my business because I feel that I'm uh start sending certain messages where people see me, they're like, okay, like she's serious, like this is what I want, and I've become more assertive and more um specific with people.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:47

And I I think even for myself, I wasn't I knew I needed time to be able to do that. So I was like, okay, I'm gonna wait till the store closes. Let's do it in January. So you get and the right mindset. The mindset for sure to be open and allow to allow it to change you and whatever way feels good. Exactly. I'm just obsessed. Just in case of fun.

How To Hire Kate and Wrap

SPEAKER_04 1:25:10

And like, I don't know, I just I think y'all should all go hang out with Kate. I think you should. Well, I feel like um, you know, the way we love to close out is how can people put money into your wallet? So how can they follow you? How can they hire you? Where's all the places that they can find you, Kate?

SPEAKER_06 1:25:28

Yes. So I'm on most social platforms. I'm on Instagram, on Facebook, I'm on LinkedIn. Um, you can look me up at Krafchenka Styling or Krafchenka Styling. Yes, or you know, my first name is I Katrina, it's my full name, it's Ikaterina Krafchenko. My last name's Ukrainian, it's my dad's last name. So I decided it was no-brainer for me to keep my company's name is Krafchenka Styling. Um, you know, not to say I would never rebrand, but I felt like I wanted to connect with my heritage. And, you know, I used to try to say, well, you know, or hide my accent, or like what people asked me where I'm from, I was kind of defensive. Like it was kind of early on because part of me wanted to blend in. And I didn't I decided to accept that on myself too. And beautiful about you. This is where I'm from. And you know, hey, I'll tell you if you don't look at it on something. So you're you're gonna hear it from me. I'm gonna be gentle. I'm gonna be gentle. But I'm gonna be honest, but yes, you you're not like you said, you're not gonna hire me and like yeah, I'll tell you you could look at it, like you'll good in everything. Let's find you like your 10 out of 10 things.

SPEAKER_04 1:26:35

I love that. Well, follow her, put money in her wallet for sure. And um, check out uh Woman Owned Wall at the Show. Um, she's on episode one. Um, that's on our YouTube channel, so you can check it out. So many people have told me, you know, how much they've been interested in the color analysis. And I still feel like it's pretty new in the Midwest, I would maybe say, because it takes, you know, so much longer for things to get over here. But I do feel like it's a beautiful service you can do for yourself and um all of the other services she offers as well. But thank you just so much again, Kate. We really appreciate you. And um, moneymakers, until next time, go out there and make that money. If you want to put more money into the wallets of women like we do, then check out our website, thewomanownedwallet.com. And we can't wait to continue the conversation on our social media. So definitely follow us on our Instagram at womanowned.wallet and on TikTok at womanownedwallet. You can support us by following our podcast on Apple, Google, and Spotify. And don't forget to leave us a review. Thank you for listening to WomanOwned Wallet, the podcast.

unknown 1:28:00

Well,